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Author Topic: Has there or will there ever be Catholic moderation on OC.net?  (Read 6743 times) Average Rating: 0
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Wyatt
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« on: November 01, 2010, 12:50:36 PM »

I have noticed that there are Eastern Orthodox moderators as well as Oriental Orthodox moderators on this forum. It occurred to me that I have never seen a Catholic (Roman or Eastern) moderator on this site. Is there any possibility of a Catholic being elevated to moderator status on this site, or are we pretty much on our own as far as fighting off anti-Catholic rhetoric? The reason I ask is because it seems there is a bit of a double standard here. Obviously the EO don't consider the OO to be the true One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, nor do the OO think that the EO are, yet still somehow those two groups are able to get along with each other on the site and even share moderator authority. Is there any chance of a RC or EC member being appointed moderator as a balance so that the site is a bit less biased?

What made me think of this is because I noticed in the thread on the differences between EO and OO, some posts which took jabs at OO were removed based on them being polemical in nature. However, this same courtesy does not seem to be shown to Catholics at all, regardless of how hateful a post may be towards Catholicism. I can't help but think this would change (at least to a degree) if we had at least one RC or EC represented in the moderation team on this forum.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 01:09:58 PM by Wyatt » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2010, 12:58:18 PM »

Regarding having both EO and OO mods, that probably comes, at least in part, from the original founders of the site being both EO and OO (ok, I think some were just on their way to being EO). So there has always been this EO/OO combination, even in the highest ranks of the administration of the forum. So, while there have been Catholics such as Lubeltri, Papist, Schultz (previous), Jakub, etc. around for a while, and also members of other groups (e.g. the Anglicans Keble and Ebor), these groups weren't part of the original "byzantine" or "eastern" idea behind the forum.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 01:00:14 PM by Asteriktos » Logged
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« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2010, 01:02:19 PM »

Orthodox Christians ARE Catholic in the truest sense of the word. Smiley
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« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2010, 01:05:28 PM »

Orthodox Christians ARE Catholic in the truest sense of the word. Smiley
You are obviously entitled to believe that, but I really think you know what I meant in the opening post. When I say Catholic I mean the Churches in Full Communion with Rome. I hesitate to say "Roman Catholic" because that diminishes the identity of Eastern Catholics who are no less important nor any less a part of the Church than the Latin Church.
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« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2010, 01:07:21 PM »

Orthodox Christians ARE Catholic in the truest sense of the word. Smiley
Gabriel, I don't think such comments very helpful to this discussion at all. While what you say may be true, we've already discussed this issue ad nauseum on a number of threads where expression of such thoughts actually is more appropriate.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 01:08:23 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2010, 01:08:10 PM »

Why isn't there a Protestant moderator? Or a Hindu? Or a Buddhist? Or an atheist?

:checks the domain name:

Oh.
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Wyatt
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« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2010, 01:12:16 PM »

Why isn't there a Protestant moderator? Or a Hindu? Or a Buddhist? Or an atheist?

:checks the domain name:

Oh.
The site is called OrthodoxChristianity.net, yet the EO don't consider the OO to be Orthodox, nor do the OO consider the EO to be Orthodox, hence they are still separated. Yet somehow, the two are able to co-exist with relatively few problems. Obviously the EO and OO consider the Churches in Full Communion with Rome to be in serious error, but likely less so than they believe the Protestants are (hopefully), so why can't we be represented in the moderation team?

For that matter, why can't we have our own section of the forum rather than just this one which might as well be called the "explain why the Catholics are wrong" forum. The Oriental Orthodox have their section all to themselves, rather than having a Oriental Orthodox-Eastern Orthodox section which compares and contrasts OO and EO. It feels as though we are considered second class citizens here, and are not even shown the basic courtesies that other groups enjoy. Otherwise, we would have our own section rather than just this section which compares our faith to Eastern Orthodoxy.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 01:16:22 PM by Wyatt » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2010, 01:13:55 PM »

Orthodox Christians ARE Catholic in the truest sense of the word. Smiley
Gabriel, I don't think such comments very helpful to this discussion at all. While what you say may be true, we've already discussed this issue ad nauseum on a number of threads where expression of such thoughts actually is more appropriate.

You're right, PTA.  Though I was only funning with Wyatt, I apologize for scandalizing him or anyone else.
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« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2010, 01:14:51 PM »

Why isn't there a Protestant moderator? Or a Hindu? Or a Buddhist? Or an atheist?

:checks the domain name:

Oh.
The site is called OrthodoxChristianity.net, yet the EO don't consider the OO to be Orthodox, nor do the OO consider the EO to be Orthodox, hence they are still separated.

Actually many EO do consider the OO to be fully Orthodox, and vice versa. There was a poll on this somewhere, let me see if I can find it...
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« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2010, 01:19:39 PM »

Actually many EO do consider the OO to be fully Orthodox, and vice versa. There was a poll on this somewhere, let me see if I can find it...
So why are the two Communions still separated?
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« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2010, 01:24:09 PM »

Actually many EO do consider the OO to be fully Orthodox, and vice versa. There was a poll on this somewhere, let me see if I can find it...
So why are the two Communions still separated?

Actually I take back what I said, I found the thread and it didn't bear how how I remembered things (or misremembered). Regarding why the EO and OO aren't united yet, I think there are still issues to work through, which I would think (?) even optimistic supporters of unity would acknowledge.
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« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2010, 01:34:06 PM »

Why isn't there a Protestant moderator? Or a Hindu? Or a Buddhist? Or an atheist?

:checks the domain name:

Oh.
Yes, the fact that this site is intended for discussion of Orthodox Christianity is the main reason we have--as long as I've been here--always resisted giving moderatorial responsibilities to non-Orthodox. The Orthodox-Protestant board was created to be a place for Orthodox to dialogue with Protestants, and the Orthodox-Catholic board was created to be a place for Orthodox to dialogue with Catholics. But they are still fundamentally Orthodox Christian discussion boards and, at least in my professional opinion, need to be moderated by Christians who represent the Orthodox point of view held to be the consensus of this forum and of this site's administration--that is, Orthodox Christians. Out of sensitivity to the needs of our Protestant and Catholic posters, however, we have sought as candidates to moderate the Orthodox-Protestant board those Orthodox posters who have a strong background in Protestantism, and we have likewise sought to moderate the Orthodox-Catholic board those Orthodox who converted from Catholicism or otherwise have a strong background in Catholicism.

As to the double standard you see, much of that may be related to our moderatorial strategy of appointing moderators to focus primarily on one section of this forum. Whereas we do have global moderators overseeing the work of the section moderators and we do act on a consensus model quite often, we also allow each section mod to moderate his/her own section as he/she deems best. As a natural result of this approach, we welcome some differences in moderatorial style from one moderator to the next. What you see, then, as a double standard may merely be Salpy moderating the OO board with an approach mildly different from how Schultz moderates this Orthodox-Catholic section.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 01:57:36 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2010, 02:50:20 PM »

Just to add to this. Shultz, who moderates the Orthodox-Catholic board, is very senstive to the Catholics on this forum and moderates in a very fair manner.
And just like anywhere else, the mods are human, and some are better than others.
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« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2010, 02:56:39 PM »

Wyatt,

One reason why you've not seen EO-OO polemics is because the place for EO-OO polemics are in the Private Fora.  That's one reason why EO-OO polemics are removed from the Oriental Orthodox Forum - because that's just a place for discussion of OO topics, not the usual endless merry-go-round on EO-OO issues (which, since you brought it up, are merely a fraction of the EO-RC & OO-RC issues), which are thus restricted to the private EO-OO forum, or Free-For-All: Religious Topics.
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« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2010, 03:57:00 PM »

Wyatt,

One reason why you've not seen EO-OO polemics is because the place for EO-OO polemics are in the Private Fora.  That's one reason why EO-OO polemics are removed from the Oriental Orthodox Forum - because that's just a place for discussion of OO topics, not the usual endless merry-go-round on EO-OO issues (which, since you brought it up, are merely a fraction of the EO-RC & OO-RC issues), which are thus restricted to the private EO-OO forum, or Free-For-All: Religious Topics.

Would it be possible for this section of the forum to be set up to discuss Catholic issues and have the Catholic-Orthodox polemics rerouted to a private section of the forum?
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« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2010, 06:03:24 PM »

It's really up to the owners of the Forum to decide.  FWIW, I was a mod for many years at the old Internet Infidels board.  They didn't mind me being a theist as long as I was able to be objective & demonstrably fair to all under my benign dictatorship. Wink
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« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2010, 06:12:57 PM »

The reason I ask is because it seems there is a bit of a double standard here. Obviously the EO don't consider the OO to be the true One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, nor do the OO think that the EO are, yet still somehow those two groups are able to get along with each other on the site and even share moderator authority.

That shouldn't be surprising seeing as how similar we are to each other in comparison to how dissimilar either of us are to you.
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« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2010, 06:15:52 PM »

Orthodox Christians ARE Catholic in the truest sense of the word. Smiley

Obviously.
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« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2010, 06:17:01 PM »

I hesitate to say "Roman Catholic" because that diminishes the identity of Eastern Catholics who are no less important nor any less a part of the Church than the Latin Church.

No, it doesn't. "Roman" in "Roman Catholic" has been used also to refer to all churches in communion with the Pope; even PJP2 used it in this way.
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« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2010, 06:17:54 PM »

Actually many EO do consider the OO to be fully Orthodox, and vice versa. There was a poll on this somewhere, let me see if I can find it...
So why are the two Communions still separated?
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« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2010, 06:21:38 PM »

IIRC Schultz was a mod while he was still a Byzantine Catholic.
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« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2010, 06:24:05 PM »

IIRC Schultz was a mod while he was still a Byzantine Catholic.

I thought he became a mod after he was already an Orthodox catechumen.
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« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2010, 06:27:16 PM »

The site is called OrthodoxChristianity.net, yet the EO don't consider the OO to be Orthodox, nor do the OO consider the EO to be Orthodox, hence they are still separated.

Actually, that is not true in an unqualified manner. Many of us consider each other to be essentially Orthodox. Even as for myself, who am one of the more Anti-Chalcedonian members here, while I believe that the Byzantines are not Orthodox in the same sense as the Orientals because Chalcedon was heretical, I nonetheless recognize that they "fixed" their faith at Constantinople II and what they officially express since then is without error (despite the fact that I don't see how they can logically explain the Nestorian seeming parts of Chalcedon).

So even as for me, I recognize the Byzantines as orthodox in a manner that I do not recognize you.

Obviously the EO and OO consider the Churches in Full Communion with Rome to be in serious error, but likely less so than they believe the Protestants are (hopefully), so why can't we be represented in the moderation team?

That's just a slippery slope anyway you look at it that cannot establish a consistent standard. We could say that the Protestants are less so in error than Muslims so we should allow Protestants. And then we could say that Muslims are less so in error than Hindus, so we should allow Muslims. Etc.

It feels as though we are considered second class citizens here, and are not even shown the basic courtesies that other groups enjoy.

You really are second class citizens here (actually it would be more accurate to say that you really aren't citizens at all), and I don't see how that it is an unreasonable approach.
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« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2010, 06:28:15 PM »

Actually many EO do consider the OO to be fully Orthodox, and vice versa. There was a poll on this somewhere, let me see if I can find it...
So why are the two Communions still separated?

Because we haven't fully worked out how to reconcile our historical divergences.
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« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2010, 06:31:33 PM »

You really are second class citizens here (actually it would be more accurate to say that you really aren't citizens at all), and I don't see how that it is an unreasonable approach.
Nice Christian charity there. :/
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« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2010, 06:37:38 PM »

You really are second class citizens here (actually it would be more accurate to say that you really aren't citizens at all), and I don't see how that it is an unreasonable approach.
Nice Christian charity there. :/

Beats massacring each other  Wink
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« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2010, 06:41:46 PM »

You really are second class citizens here (actually it would be more accurate to say that you really aren't citizens at all), and I don't see how that it is an unreasonable approach.
Nice Christian charity there. :/

Well, if you would be treated like second class citizens or non-citizens in an Orthodox Church (and you would likewise treat Protestants such), then how is it unreasonable to do so also on an Orthodox forum?
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« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2010, 06:43:05 PM »

Wyatt, you've asked the other RC's on the board about this before so my disagreement should come as no surprise.

But he's right - this board was set up primarily for Orthodox Christians.  You and I are welcome to visit but unless we convert, our opinions and desires carry less weight.

Imagine a Jack Chick anti RC complaining at CAF because the mods aren't more sympathetic to his desire to call the Pope the "Whore of Babylon".  Sorry, but here, that's us.

If it gets to be a problem, there are lots of other religious forums out there - find a better one, or even start your own.  (Ask elijahmaria, she's done it.)

Otherwise, be a meek humble second-class citizen, and keep in mind what Christ said about the meek and humble. Grin
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« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2010, 06:49:32 PM »

Well, if you would be treated like second class citizens or non-citizens in an Orthodox Church (and you would likewise treat Protestants such), then how is it unreasonable to do so also on an Orthodox forum?
So I guess that is the fundamental difference between Catholicism vs. EO and OO...love versus no love.

Imagine a Jack Chick anti RC complaining at CAF because the mods aren't more sympathetic to his desire to call the Pope the "Whore of Babylon".  Sorry, but here, that's us.
The difference is neither I nor most other Catholics are anti-EO or anti-OO. Heck, we even let the EO Commune in our Churches. We are charitable and loving to them yet they scoff at us and treat us like we are garbage.
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« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2010, 06:51:02 PM »

We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ..Because the Catholic mods Are Banning the orthodox Posters ,There Hardly anyone left there to defend the truths of Holy Orthodoxy......  
I say No and Vote No to Catholic moderator On this  Holy Orthodox Forum... Grin
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« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2010, 06:52:28 PM »

Really?  Ever heard of James Likoudis?  A *very* anti-EO traditionalist RC, and there are plenty of others like him.

And the fact that the RC allows EOs to commune means little since the EOs themselves generally scorn the whole concept.
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« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2010, 06:57:23 PM »

Well, if you would be treated like second class citizens or non-citizens in an Orthodox Church (and you would likewise treat Protestants such), then how is it unreasonable to do so also on an Orthodox forum?
So I guess that is the fundamental difference between Catholicism vs. EO and OO...love versus no love.

So us treating you as second class citizens is unloving but you treating Protestants like second class citizens is loving?

Now I see who really is into double standards here.
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« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2010, 07:00:57 PM »

We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ..Because the Catholic mods Are Banning the orthodox Posters....
That's because the Orthodox were causing trouble, gaining converts and such. Wink
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« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2010, 07:01:15 PM »

The difference is neither I nor most other Catholics are anti-EO or anti-OO. Heck, we even let the EO Commune in our Churches.

What would result in our apostatising. How generous of you.
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« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2010, 07:03:50 PM »

The difference is neither I nor most other Catholics are anti-EO or anti-OO. Heck, we even let the EO Commune in our Churches.

What would result in our apostatising. How generous of you.

LOL
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« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2010, 07:29:27 PM »

IIRC Schultz was a mod while he was still a Byzantine Catholic. 

Nope.  He had already converted.  I'm not 100%, but I'm pretty sure that we've exclusively had Orthodox mods.
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« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2010, 07:31:47 PM »

You really are second class citizens here (actually it would be more accurate to say that you really aren't citizens at all), and I don't see how that it is an unreasonable approach.
Nice Christian charity there. :/
Beats massacring each other  Wink

Indeed.  We still treat second-class citizens like humans, instead of casting them off like unwanted leeches (as we've found ourselves treated in encounters elsewhere on the 'net).
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« Reply #37 on: November 01, 2010, 07:36:10 PM »

I never felt like a second class citizen when I wasn't Orthodox.
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« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2010, 07:37:16 PM »

But ya AH, Blanche, ya AH!
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« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2010, 07:44:41 PM »

Wyatt,

One reason why you've not seen EO-OO polemics is because the place for EO-OO polemics are in the Private Fora.  That's one reason why EO-OO polemics are removed from the Oriental Orthodox Forum - because that's just a place for discussion of OO topics, not the usual endless merry-go-round on EO-OO issues (which, since you brought it up, are merely a fraction of the EO-RC & OO-RC issues), which are thus restricted to the private EO-OO forum, or Free-For-All: Religious Topics.

Would it be possible for this section of the forum to be set up to discuss Catholic issues and have the Catholic-Orthodox polemics rerouted to a private section of the forum?

I had a lengthy answer, and lost it somehow.  However, one point I was going to bring up has been mentioned since then, namely:

That shouldn't be surprising seeing as how similar we are to each other in comparison to how dissimilar either of us are to you.

Now:

Well, if you would be treated like second class citizens or non-citizens in an Orthodox Church (and you would likewise treat Protestants such), then how is it unreasonable to do so also on an Orthodox forum?

So I guess that is the fundamental difference between Catholicism vs. EO and OO...love versus no love.

I'm sure the Orthodox Christians raped and massacred by the Crusaders sympathize with you.  Get off your self-constructed moral high horse - the part of RCism that has diverged from Orthodoxy is the only thing attacked here, not RCs.  It's an Orthodox Forum, here to discuss issues of Orthodoxy; it would be incongruent for us to have a RC-exclusive section considering our position viz-a-viz sacraments (especially Communion), history, theology, ecclesiology, etc.  We can have an area where RC and EO/OO/Old-Cal discuss things together, and an area where the aforementioned groups can be more polemical (Private Fora), but that's as good as it gets.  The OO's only have their "own section" here because of the unique cultural and liturgical circumstances and the fact that, if they were expected to have their threads about their issues in with the rest of the threads, they'd be swallowed up or buried by the EO stuff since there are more EOs than OOs; it's creating a nice niche so they don't have to search all over the forum to find OO-related things, respecting the fact that they're a minority in numbers but not in importance - but having the exclusive section for discussion of OO topics isn't a "pen" to restrict them. They (at least for the purposes of the Forum) are as Orthodox as EO (and vice-versa) and have the freedom to discuss their beliefs, practices, etc. freely in all the fora (Faith, Liturgy, etc.).

The difference is neither I nor most other Catholics are anti-EO or anti-OO. Heck, we even let the EO Commune in our Churches. We are charitable and loving to them yet they scoff at us and treat us like we are garbage.

If you're treated poorly by Orthodox people, then they should be ashamed.  But don't use the extension of Communion as a sign of enlightenment or charity; it's a sign of ecclesiastical dysfunction.  Truth be told, our Churches are not in communion at the "national" levels, and thus should not be at the local ones, either; the RC church is being internally inconsistent if it is allowing Orthodox to be routinely (i.e. not under special circumstances) communed in parishes without formal conversion.
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« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2010, 07:45:02 PM »

I never felt like a second class citizen when I wasn't Orthodox.

Thank you.
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« Reply #41 on: November 01, 2010, 07:49:33 PM »

IIRC Schultz was a mod while he was still a Byzantine Catholic.  

Nope.  He had already converted.  I'm not 100%, but I'm pretty sure that we've exclusively had Orthodox mods.

Actually, I think both Robert and Fr. Anastasios were both still Byzantine Catholic when the forum started.
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« Reply #42 on: November 01, 2010, 07:52:59 PM »

IIRC Schultz was a mod while he was still a Byzantine Catholic. 

Nope.  He had already converted.  I'm not 100%, but I'm pretty sure that we've exclusively had Orthodox mods.

Actually, I think both Robert and Fr. Anastasios were both still Byzantine Catholic when the forum.

I thought that was just while it was Byzantines.org.  Maybe I'm wrong - I didn't join until 2 years into the current incarnation.
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« Reply #43 on: November 01, 2010, 08:00:48 PM »

You really are second class citizens here (actually it would be more accurate to say that you really aren't citizens at all), and I don't see how that it is an unreasonable approach.

When I was invited to this forum I was not informed that being Catholic relegated me to second class status nor do I find any such statements in Rules.  
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« Reply #44 on: November 01, 2010, 08:08:36 PM »

You really are second class citizens here (actually it would be more accurate to say that you really aren't citizens at all), and I don't see how that it is an unreasonable approach.

When I was invited to this forum I was not informed that being Catholic relegated me to second class status nor do I find any such statements in Rules.  

It is not explicitly stated but the degree to which you are allowed to participate on this site is established as inherently less than an EO and OO; the logical conclusion of this is that you are regarded as a second class citizen or a non-citizen.
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« Reply #45 on: November 01, 2010, 08:22:37 PM »

It is not explicitly stated but the degree to which you are allowed to participate on this site is established as inherently less than an EO and OO; the logical conclusion of this is that you are regarded as a second class citizen or a non-citizen.

Since I can participate as much as anyone here, moderating being different than participating, I'll take the above as your own asnine assessment unless mods or admins state otherwise.
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« Reply #46 on: November 01, 2010, 08:24:41 PM »

deusveritasest,

Do you think that it might be wise for you to try being a bit more diplomatic on this thread? You're not exactly representing this forum nor yourself all that well here with your usual show of blunt, tactless forthrightness.
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« Reply #47 on: November 01, 2010, 08:24:53 PM »

It is not explicitly stated but the degree to which you are allowed to participate on this site is established as inherently less than an EO and OO; the logical conclusion of this is that you are regarded as a second class citizen or a non-citizen.

Since I can participate as much as anyone here, moderating being different than participating, I'll take the above as your own asnine assessment unless mods or admins state otherwise.

You are not allowed to have your own forum.
You are not allowed to have moderators from your faith.
You are not allowed to propagate your faith.

None of that appears to you to be a limitation in the degree to which you can participate compared to the EO and OO?
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« Reply #48 on: November 01, 2010, 08:27:26 PM »

It is not explicitly stated but the degree to which you are allowed to participate on this site is established as inherently less than an EO and OO; the logical conclusion of this is that you are regarded as a second class citizen or a non-citizen.

Since I can participate as much as anyone here, moderating being different than participating, I'll take the above as your own asnine assessment unless mods or admins state otherwise.

You are not allowed to have your own forum.
You are not allowed to have moderators from your faith.
You are not allowed to propagate your faith.

None of that appears to you to be a limitation in the degree to which you can participate compared to the EO and OO?
IOW, chill out, back off, and let us more PC type handle this thorny issue. police
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« Reply #49 on: November 01, 2010, 08:32:13 PM »

Indeed.  We still treat second-class citizens like humans, instead of casting them off like unwanted leeches (as we've found ourselves treated in encounters elsewhere on the 'net).

I'm no fan of CAF, but in fairness Roman/Eastern Catholics would be banned from here if they were proselytizing.
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« Reply #50 on: November 01, 2010, 08:34:34 PM »

Indeed.  We still treat second-class citizens like humans, instead of casting them off like unwanted leeches (as we've found ourselves treated in encounters elsewhere on the 'net).

I'm no fan of CAF, but in fairness Roman/Eastern Catholics would be banned from here if they were proselytizing.

It depends on what you mean by proselytism. If you won people over simply because of witnessing to your faith and people on here found it attractive and as a consequence of the information you provided decided to convert, I don't think you would be banned. I can't say the same thing about CAF.
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« Reply #51 on: November 01, 2010, 08:38:37 PM »

This entire thread is just making me feel depressed. Sad
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« Reply #52 on: November 01, 2010, 08:38:58 PM »

You are not allowed to have your own forum.
You are not allowed to have moderators from your faith.
You are not allowed to propagate your faith.

None of that appears to you to be a limitation in the degree to which you can participate compared to the EO and OO?

There is an Orthodox-Catholic forum, I wouldn't expect anything more.
The admins are free to choose whom they want to moderate on this forum as on any forum.
Honest and charitable participation are all the propogation my faith should need.

No.
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« Reply #53 on: November 01, 2010, 08:50:53 PM »

Indeed.  We still treat second-class citizens like humans, instead of casting them off like unwanted leeches (as we've found ourselves treated in encounters elsewhere on the 'net).

I'm no fan of CAF, but in fairness Roman/Eastern Catholics would be banned from here if they were proselytizing.

LOL. Look up Alfred Persson, and see how much we put up with proselytizing.
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« Reply #54 on: November 01, 2010, 09:39:05 PM »

So I guess that is the fundamental difference between Catholicism vs. EO and OO...love versus no love.

Now that's one of the most ridiculous statements I've heard in a while.

The difference is neither I nor most other Catholics are anti-EO or anti-OO. Heck, we even let the EO Commune in our Churches. We are charitable and loving to them yet they scoff at us and treat us like we are garbage.


Have you taken a look at Fish Eaters lately?
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« Reply #55 on: November 01, 2010, 10:29:10 PM »

Paisius, PLEASE modify your post above!  You have attributed a rather offensive quote to me which I most definitely did NOT say!!  Sad
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« Reply #56 on: November 01, 2010, 10:46:24 PM »

Paisius, PLEASE modify your post above!  You have attributed a rather offensive quote to me which I most definitely did NOT say!!  Sad

Offensive to whom, the Eastern Orthodox? Perhaps I will quit being offensive when they start showing a bit more concern for being respectful to us.
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« Reply #57 on: November 01, 2010, 11:13:40 PM »

The difference is neither I nor most other Catholics are anti-EO or anti-OO. Heck, we even let the EO Commune in our Churches. We are charitable and loving to them yet they scoff at us and treat us like we are garbage.


Paisius - I did NOT say the quote you have attributed to me above, starting with the words "The difference is neither I nor most other Catholics ... "

Wyatt - I was not speaking to you.
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« Reply #58 on: November 01, 2010, 11:16:08 PM »

The difference is neither I nor most other Catholics are anti-EO or anti-OO. Heck, we even let the EO Commune in our Churches. We are charitable and loving to them yet they scoff at us and treat us like we are garbage.


Paisius - I did NOT say the quote you have attributed to me above, starting with the words "The difference is neither I nor most other Catholics ... "

Wyatt - I was not speaking to you.


Good grief I'm sorry. I was trying to cut out the embedded post and made a mistake. I'll pm a mod immediately and have it fixed.
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« Reply #59 on: November 01, 2010, 11:24:39 PM »

Thanks.  Sorry if I overreacted, it's been one of those Mondays. Sad
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« Reply #60 on: November 01, 2010, 11:33:32 PM »

Thanks.  Sorry if I overreacted, it's been one of those Mondays. Sad


Well I'm sorry I did it. Either way it will be fixed soon.  Smiley
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« Reply #61 on: November 01, 2010, 11:46:36 PM »



Quotes fixed.  Please carry on, folks!

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« Reply #62 on: November 02, 2010, 12:09:48 AM »

Thanks - hey, you treat us second class citizens pretty nice! Cheesy
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« Reply #63 on: November 02, 2010, 12:16:05 AM »

Since it is apparently my work product that is being critiqued here, I feel I should respond in some way, but it's not going to be tonight.  I am hopped up on cold medicine in an effort to stave off a wicked attack of sinusitis that had to happen, of course, while I was on a mini-vacation with my dear wife.  I am starting to feel better and, when I do and have the mental acuity to respond, I will.
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« Reply #64 on: November 02, 2010, 09:55:27 AM »

Thanks.  Sorry if I overreacted, it's been one of those Mondays. Sad
It's Election Season. Wink
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« Reply #65 on: November 02, 2010, 12:38:07 PM »

We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ..Because the Catholic mods Are Banning the orthodox Posters....
That's because the Orthodox were causing trouble, gaining converts and such. Wink
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« Reply #66 on: November 02, 2010, 12:43:02 PM »

Really?  Ever heard of James Likoudis?  A *very* anti-EO traditionalist RC, and there are plenty of others like him.

And the fact that the RC allows EOs to commune means little since the EOs themselves generally scorn the whole concept.

Difficulty with this response is that the people you set out as exemplars would not be caught dead on a Forum like this one.  In fact there are few seriously talented and faithful Catholics who would.  

So you get the seekers, who don't count in this question, and the ones truly dedicated to east-west relations, who are stupid enough to think there might be common ground,  and the loons.

Takes a strange sort of psyche to abandon one's self to abuse day to day   laugh

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« Reply #67 on: November 02, 2010, 12:48:28 PM »

Whats your excuse....
Didn't they ban you from there as well,was it for being rude as you claim that against the  orthodox ........ Grin
I remember your posts from there, you attacked Holy Orthodoxy with gusto...... Grin




We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ..Because the Catholic mods Are Banning the orthodox Posters....
That's because the Orthodox were causing trouble, gaining converts and such. Wink
Actually, it was because some of the EOs were very rude guests.
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« Reply #68 on: November 02, 2010, 12:53:10 PM »

Whats your excuse....
Didn't they ban you from there as well,was it for being rude as you claim that against the  orthodox ........ Grin
I remember your posts from there, you attacked Holy Orthodoxy with gusto...... Grin




We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ..Because the Catholic mods Are Banning the orthodox Posters....
That's because the Orthodox were causing trouble, gaining converts and such. Wink
Actually, it was because some of the EOs were very rude guests.
Actually, I was banned, back before the EOs were actually moderated. In the dark days, when the old moderator wouldn't allow Catholics to stand up for their faith, but allowed EOs to trample all over the Catholic Church. Then there was a change. I am confident that if I were to be on the forum today, now that we have the reasonable moderators who banned the very rude EOs, I would still be posting.
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« Reply #69 on: November 02, 2010, 12:53:47 PM »

So I guess that is the fundamental difference between Catholicism vs. EO and OO...love versus no love.

Now that's one of the most ridiculous statements I've heard in a while.

The difference is neither I nor most other Catholics are anti-EO or anti-OO. Heck, we even let the EO Commune in our Churches. We are charitable and loving to them yet they scoff at us and treat us like we are garbage.


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LOL. Wyatt's fishing for minnows here and they swallow whales there.
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« Reply #70 on: November 02, 2010, 01:02:10 PM »

"Lo, those Christians, how they love one another!"
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« Reply #71 on: November 02, 2010, 01:02:44 PM »

Thanks - hey, you treat us second class citizens pretty nice! Cheesy


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« Reply #72 on: November 02, 2010, 01:05:17 PM »

We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ..Because the Catholic mods Are Banning the orthodox Posters....
That's because the Orthodox were causing trouble, gaining converts and such. Wink
Actually, it was because some of the EOs were very rude guests.
I browsed CAF the other day and I saw some discussions that Eastern Orthodox Christians were joining in and it seemed to remain civil. That is a good sign.
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« Reply #73 on: November 02, 2010, 01:23:44 PM »


But it was a eastern christian sub -forum for orthodox and eastern catholics ,Roman Catholics like you would come in and try to put us in our place by showing us the error of our ways, but to no avail ,so things got heated , Plus a few Catholics saw the errors of there belief and converted to the Orthodox Faith ..... Grin

Whats your excuse....
Didn't they ban you from there as well,was it for being rude as you claim that against the  orthodox ........ Grin
I remember your posts from there, you attacked Holy Orthodoxy with gusto...... Grin




We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ..Because the Catholic mods Are Banning the orthodox Posters....
That's because the Orthodox were causing trouble, gaining converts and such. Wink
Actually, it was because some of the EOs were very rude guests.
Actually, I was banned, back before the EOs were actually moderated. In the dark days, when the old moderator wouldn't allow Catholics to stand up for their faith, but allowed EOs to trample all over the Catholic Church. Then there was a change. I am confident that if I were to be on the forum today, now that we have the reasonable moderators who banned the very rude EOs, I would still be posting.
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« Reply #74 on: November 02, 2010, 01:27:03 PM »

Offensive to whom, the Eastern Orthodox? Perhaps I will quit being offensive when they start showing a bit more concern for being respectful to us.

No one forces you to stay here. If you feel persecuted, you can quit. Surprisingly not everyone from your confession feels that way, so maybe it's not about "the disrespect torwards the Catholics" but reactions of particular members?

Disclaimer: I wrote it as a student from Poland, not as a moderator.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2010, 01:31:32 PM by Michał Kalina » Logged

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« Reply #75 on: November 02, 2010, 01:35:42 PM »

Offensive to whom, the Eastern Orthodox? Perhaps I will quit being offensive when they start showing a bit more concern for being respectful to us.
No one forces you to stay here. If you feel persecuted, you can quit. Surprisingly not everyone from your confession feels that way, so maybe it's not about "the disrespect torwards the Catholics" but reactions of particular members?
There's more than a few of us who feel persecuted. I just happen to be the one shouting the loudest right now. Plus, why would I leave after being persecuted? If anything, that makes me want to stay all the more, lest you guys have something to boast about (i.e. Woohoo! We ran off another evil Roman heretic!).
« Last Edit: November 02, 2010, 01:35:57 PM by Wyatt » Logged
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« Reply #76 on: November 02, 2010, 01:47:05 PM »


But it was a eastern christian sub -forum for orthodox and eastern catholics ,Roman Catholics like you would come in and try to put us in our place by showing us the error of our ways, but to no avail ,so things got heated , Plus a few Catholics saw the errors of there belief and converted to the Orthodox Faith ..... Grin

Whats your excuse....
Didn't they ban you from there as well,was it for being rude as you claim that against the  orthodox ........ Grin
I remember your posts from there, you attacked Holy Orthodoxy with gusto...... Grin




We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ..Because the Catholic mods Are Banning the orthodox Posters....
That's because the Orthodox were causing trouble, gaining converts and such. Wink
Actually, it was because some of the EOs were very rude guests.
Actually, I was banned, back before the EOs were actually moderated. In the dark days, when the old moderator wouldn't allow Catholics to stand up for their faith, but allowed EOs to trample all over the Catholic Church. Then there was a change. I am confident that if I were to be on the forum today, now that we have the reasonable moderators who banned the very rude EOs, I would still be posting.
We did a pretty good job putting you in your place.  Grin
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« Reply #77 on: November 02, 2010, 02:09:59 PM »

This isn't the place to rehash what happened on CAF, so let's knock off that tangent and get back to the topic of the OP. Thank you.
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« Reply #78 on: November 02, 2010, 02:11:15 PM »

Offensive to whom, the Eastern Orthodox? Perhaps I will quit being offensive when they start showing a bit more concern for being respectful to us.
No one forces you to stay here. If you feel persecuted, you can quit. Surprisingly not everyone from your confession feels that way, so maybe it's not about "the disrespect torwards the Catholics" but reactions of particular members?
There's more than a few of us who feel persecuted. I just happen to be the one shouting the loudest right now. Plus, why would I leave after being persecuted? If anything, that makes me want to stay all the more, lest you guys have something to boast about (i.e. Woohoo! We ran off another evil Roman heretic!).
If there are others who feel persecuted as you say, would you be willing to let them speak for themselves? Maybe then we can get a real number.
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« Reply #79 on: November 02, 2010, 02:15:41 PM »


But it was a eastern christian sub -forum for orthodox and eastern catholics ,Roman Catholics like you would come in and try to put us in our place by showing us the error of our ways, but to no avail ,so things got heated , Plus a few Catholics saw the errors of there belief and converted to the Orthodox Faith ..... Grin

Stashko, if you were one of the banned Orthodox, I can easily see why they would have done it.
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« Reply #80 on: November 02, 2010, 02:16:54 PM »

Offensive to whom, the Eastern Orthodox? Perhaps I will quit being offensive when they start showing a bit more concern for being respectful to us.
No one forces you to stay here. If you feel persecuted, you can quit. Surprisingly not everyone from your confession feels that way, so maybe it's not about "the disrespect torwards the Catholics" but reactions of particular members?
There's more than a few of us who feel persecuted. I just happen to be the one shouting the loudest right now. Plus, why would I leave after being persecuted? If anything, that makes me want to stay all the more, lest you guys have something to boast about (i.e. Woohoo! We ran off another evil Roman heretic!).
If there are others who feel persecuted as you say, would you be willing to let them speak for themselves? Maybe then we can get a real number.
I would say that most of the moderators here are great. However, Peter, there are times when I have felt that you, as a moderator have picked on me. Though, I never have felt that it was worth my time to pursue the issue. I mean, I'm a guest here.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2010, 02:17:32 PM by Papist » Logged

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« Reply #81 on: November 02, 2010, 02:28:42 PM »

Paisius, PLEASE modify your post above!  You have attributed a rather offensive quote to me which I most definitely did NOT say!!  Sad
Offensive to whom, the Eastern Orthodox? Perhaps I will quit being offensive when they start showing a bit more concern for being respectful to us.

I'm sure people were being respectful, even in disagreement, before you started with rhetoric like, "So I guess that is the fundamental difference between Catholicism vs. EO and OO...love versus no love. "
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« Reply #82 on: November 02, 2010, 02:38:40 PM »

We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ..Because the Catholic mods Are Banning the orthodox Posters....
That's because the Orthodox were causing trouble, gaining converts and such. Wink
Actually, it was because some of the EOs were very rude guests.
I browsed CAF the other day and I saw some discussions that Eastern Orthodox Christians were joining in and it seemed to remain civil. That is a good sign.

I resent the implication that activity on a particular forum on the internet is a reflection on Orthodoxy and relations between the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Roman Catholic Churches as a whole.

As a person who has participated in a joint prayer service between the Greek Orthodox Cathedral and Roman Catholic Cathedral in Atlanta, GA, I don't appreciate the sentiment that ALL Orthodox Christians are hostile towards the Church of Rome. This is simply not true.

While there are individuals on this forum who have stated less than loving sentiments towards our Catholic friends, that is not indicative of how all of us feel. As anyone who has spent any time on any internet forums should know, the participants of the forum are not necessarily reflecting the views of the larger population. If one was to actually GO to an Orthodox parish and survey the parishioners, you would find that most do NOT harbor ill feelings towards the Catholic Church, and actually do hope and pray for a reunification at some point.

I know you may find this hard to believe Wyatt, but most of us do not spend our time making snarky comments about the Catholic Church. Rather, most of us are spending our time trying to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Furthermore, as far as apologetics go, whenever I am explaining my Orthodox faith to those unfamiliar with the Church, I usually spend the first half of the discussion defending Catholicism, and the second half of the discussion explaining how Orthodoxy is different from Catholicism. So rather than persecuting the Catholic Church, quite often you will find Orthodox Christians as one of her great defenders.

I am sorry that you have been offended by the actions of a few, but please realize that a few bad apples don't spoil the whole bunch.
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« Reply #83 on: November 02, 2010, 03:09:35 PM »

Jesus said he came not to bring peace but division.<< Luke 12:51 >>
 
New International Version (©1984)
Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division.
 
But I also think he was not meaning between two who have faith in him as Christians . I know that we have more to be together over than apart.We are all one nation of christians

Personally I have been in freinds weddings where I took communion in a Catholic church and my Orthodox preist would tell me I should not but I believe I will not be held accountable for that by Jesus on judgement day .
<< John 11:52 >>
 
New International Version (©1984)
and not only for that nation but also for the scattered children of God, to bring them together and make them one.
 
  I Pasted this from Matthew Henry's last paragraph for John 11:52
The conversion of souls is the gathering of them to Christ as their ruler and refuge; and he died to effect this. By dying he purchased them to himself, and the gift of the Holy Ghost for them: his love in dying for believers should unite them closely together.
 

I will continue to celebrate with any and all Christians as much as I can even though I may not always be welcome or following my official church doctrine.
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« Reply #84 on: November 02, 2010, 03:50:37 PM »

I will continue to celebrate with any and all Christians as much as I can....
Even Mormons?
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« Reply #85 on: November 02, 2010, 03:54:29 PM »

I will continue to celebrate with any and all Christians as much as I can....
Even Mormons?

Bold.
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« Reply #86 on: November 02, 2010, 03:59:17 PM »

I will continue to celebrate with any and all Christians as much as I can....
Even Mormons?

Bold.

And what is his criteria for determining what constitutes genuine Christianity?
« Last Edit: November 02, 2010, 03:59:44 PM by Alveus Lacuna » Logged
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« Reply #87 on: November 02, 2010, 04:15:30 PM »

Paisius, PLEASE modify your post above!  You have attributed a rather offensive quote to me which I most definitely did NOT say!!  Sad
Offensive to whom, the Eastern Orthodox? Perhaps I will quit being offensive when they start showing a bit more concern for being respectful to us.

I'm sure people were being respectful, even in disagreement, before you started with rhetoric like, "So I guess that is the fundamental difference between Catholicism vs. EO and OO...love versus no love. "

 laugh  I think Wyatt was thinking of many things here that are passed over as though they really are all right to say and do.  Not just this moment. 

It seems to me that the Catholics here should take a page out of Deacon Lance's book.  Post only that which is factual and do not pretend that we are all friends and try to get chatty.  Ignore the provocations and keep posting what is real as succinctly as possible.

M.
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« Reply #88 on: November 02, 2010, 04:18:29 PM »

Since it is apparently my work product that is being critiqued here, I feel I should respond in some way, but it's not going to be tonight.  I am hopped up on cold medicine in an effort to stave off a wicked attack of sinusitis that had to happen, of course, while I was on a mini-vacation with my dear wife.  I am starting to feel better and, when I do and have the mental acuity to respond, I will.

I pray that you feel better. 

From my point of view, under the circumstances, I think you do a good job here Schultz, and we should all be happy to have you as moderator of this section of the Forum.  It's a stinky job some days, I am absolutely certain of that.

So thank you very much for your attention and good work.

Mary
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« Reply #89 on: November 02, 2010, 04:23:14 PM »

Dear Wyatt,

Be at peace.  There will never be Catholic moderators on this Forum.  I would not expect it.  Some things in this world must simply be what they are and we must not try to make them something they are not, neither by reason nor by force.

Best advertising for Catholics is kindness in the face of unkindness and false witness.

Mary
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« Reply #90 on: November 02, 2010, 04:55:24 PM »

It seems to me that the Catholics here should take a page out of Deacon Lance's book.  Post only that which is factual and do not pretend that we are all friends and try to get chatty.  Ignore the provocations and keep posting what is real as succinctly as possible.

I don't necessarily agree with the, "do not pretend that we are all friends and try to get chatty" part.  We can talk about lots of non-theological topics without being divided on the RC-EO line (like sports, movies, etc.); and even on a lot of theology, we agree 100%.  But on the topics where we disagree, we shouldn't (a) get offended when people tell us that we disagree, and (b) take it personally when people critique beliefs on a discussion forum, where things are discussed.  If it's an ad hominem, tell the mods and it will be rectified; otherwise, let's discuss issues and subjects and agree that since this is a discussion forum that discussion of topics and issues isn't personal and shouldn't be taken personally.
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« Reply #91 on: November 02, 2010, 06:00:35 PM »


Oh !  Grin



But it was a eastern christian sub -forum for orthodox and eastern catholics ,Roman Catholics like you would come in and try to put us in our place by showing us the error of our ways, but to no avail ,so things got heated , Plus a few Catholics saw the errors of there belief and converted to the Orthodox Faith ..... Grin

Stashko, if you were one of the banned Orthodox, I can easily see why they would have done it.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2010, 06:06:34 PM by stashko » Logged

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« Reply #92 on: November 02, 2010, 06:05:38 PM »

Since it is apparently my work product that is being critiqued here, I feel I should respond in some way, but it's not going to be tonight.  I am hopped up on cold medicine in an effort to stave off a wicked attack of sinusitis that had to happen, of course, while I was on a mini-vacation with my dear wife.  I am starting to feel better and, when I do and have the mental acuity to respond, I will.

I just wanted to say I think you do a great job moderating.
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« Reply #93 on: November 02, 2010, 06:10:44 PM »

And I have to say, compared to some other forums I have at times frequented, this forum is extremely mild. If you don't believe me take a look at CARM and Fish Eaters.  Wink
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« Reply #94 on: November 02, 2010, 06:44:34 PM »

Since it is apparently my work product that is being critiqued here, I feel I should respond in some way, but it's not going to be tonight.  I am hopped up on cold medicine in an effort to stave off a wicked attack of sinusitis that had to happen, of course, while I was on a mini-vacation with my dear wife.  I am starting to feel better and, when I do and have the mental acuity to respond, I will.

I just wanted to say I think you do a great job moderating.

Agreed. It can definitely be one of the more explosive sections to moderate.
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« Reply #95 on: November 02, 2010, 06:58:29 PM »

And I have to say, compared to some other forums I have at times frequented, this forum is extremely mild. If you don't believe me take a look at CARM and Fish Eaters.  Wink
Fish Eaters are a Traditionalists group, but yes, things there can be a bit in your face, so to speak. Ironically, I came across this prayer at a Latin Mass website to be said before logging onto the internet:

A Prayer before logging onto the internet

Amighty and eternal God,
who created us in Thy image
and bade us to seek after all that is good, true and beautiful
especially in the divine person of Thy Only-begotten Son, and our Lord Jesus Christ,
grant, we beseech Thee,
that through the intercession of Saint Isidore, Bishop and Doctor,
during our journeys through the internet
we will direct our hands and eyes only
to that which is pleasing to Thee
and treat with charity and patience all
those souls whom we encounter
Through Christ our Lord. Amen.
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« Reply #96 on: November 02, 2010, 08:00:27 PM »

We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ...
I think that's right. CAF does need an Orthodox section and an Orthodox moderator. I would vote for that. However, I am not sure that stashko would be the best candidate for the job of moderation on CAF.
On the other hand, I personally would not see any problem with having a R. Catholic moderator on the Orthodox board, at least for a section with dealt with Catholicism and how it relates to Orthodoxy, provided that that particular moderator had a record of posts which were generally fair and balanced.
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« Reply #97 on: November 02, 2010, 08:01:45 PM »

We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ...
I think that's right. CAF does need an Orthodox section and an Orthodox moderator. I would vote for that. However, I am not sure that stashko would be the best candidate for the job of moderation on CAF.
On the other hand, I personally would not see any problem with having a R. Catholic moderator on the Orthodox board, at least for a section with dealt with Catholicism and how it relates to Orthodoxy, provided that that particular moderator had a record of posts which were generally fair and balanced.
Why would a Catholic site, that is supported by Catholics, and was created for the defense of the Catholic site, need an Eastern Orthodox section, moderated by an non-Catholic?
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« Reply #98 on: November 02, 2010, 08:04:58 PM »

We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ...
I think that's right. CAF does need an Orthodox section and an Orthodox moderator. I would vote for that. However, I am not sure that stashko would be the best candidate for the job of moderation on CAF.
On the other hand, I personally would not see any problem with having a R. Catholic moderator on the Orthodox board, at least for a section with dealt with Catholicism and how it relates to Orthodoxy, provided that that particular moderator had a record of posts which were generally fair and balanced.
Why would a Catholic site, that is supported by Catholics, and was created for the defense of the Catholic site, need an Eastern Orthodox section, moderated by an non-Catholic?
For the same reason that this site needs a RC (or EC) moderator and a Catholic section of the forum.
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« Reply #99 on: November 02, 2010, 08:28:52 PM »

We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ...
I think that's right. CAF does need an Orthodox section and an Orthodox moderator. I would vote for that. However, I am not sure that stashko would be the best candidate for the job of moderation on CAF.
On the other hand, I personally would not see any problem with having a R. Catholic moderator on the Orthodox board, at least for a section with dealt with Catholicism and how it relates to Orthodoxy, provided that that particular moderator had a record of posts which were generally fair and balanced.
Why would a Catholic site, that is supported by Catholics, and was created for the defense of the Catholic site, need an Eastern Orthodox section, moderated by an non-Catholic?
For the same reason that this site needs a RC (or EC) moderator and a Catholic section of the forum.
Interesting idea. I guess, being a guest here doesn't bother me too much. If certain moderators choose to moderate in an unfair manner, well that is on their consciences.
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« Reply #100 on: November 02, 2010, 08:37:46 PM »

We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ...
I think that's right. CAF does need an Orthodox section and an Orthodox moderator. I would vote for that. However, I am not sure that stashko would be the best candidate for the job of moderation on CAF.
On the other hand, I personally would not see any problem with having a R. Catholic moderator on the Orthodox board, at least for a section with dealt with Catholicism and how it relates to Orthodoxy, provided that that particular moderator had a record of posts which were generally fair and balanced.
Why would a Catholic site, that is supported by Catholics, and was created for the defense of the Catholic site, need an Eastern Orthodox section, moderated by an non-Catholic?
For the same reason that this site needs a RC (or EC) moderator and a Catholic section of the forum.
Interesting idea. I guess, being a guest here doesn't bother me too much. If certain moderators choose to moderate in an unfair manner, well that is on their consciences.
It isn't so much that I feel that certain actions by moderators have been directly unfair to me and other Catholics on the forum, but rather their inaction by failing to silence certain polemical trolls who like to take jabs at Catholicism and also happen to be Eastern (or Oriental) Orthodox. That is what I feel is wrong and should change. I have submitted a complaint regarding such things but it seems, at least so far, I have been completely ignored.

Oh, and if we are allegedly "guests" here, then what kind of party in hell did we stumble upon?Huh  laugh
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« Reply #101 on: November 02, 2010, 08:41:34 PM »

We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ...
I think that's right. CAF does need an Orthodox section and an Orthodox moderator. I would vote for that. However, I am not sure that stashko would be the best candidate for the job of moderation on CAF.
On the other hand, I personally would not see any problem with having a R. Catholic moderator on the Orthodox board, at least for a section with dealt with Catholicism and how it relates to Orthodoxy, provided that that particular moderator had a record of posts which were generally fair and balanced.
Why would a Catholic site, that is supported by Catholics, and was created for the defense of the Catholic site, need an Eastern Orthodox section, moderated by an non-Catholic?
For the same reason that this site needs a RC (or EC) moderator and a Catholic section of the forum.
Interesting idea. I guess, being a guest here doesn't bother me too much. If certain moderators choose to moderate in an unfair manner, well that is on their consciences.
It isn't so much that I feel that certain actions by moderators have been directly unfair to me and other Catholics on the forum, but rather their inaction by failing to silence certain polemical trolls who like to take jabs at Catholicism and also happen to be Eastern (or Oriental) Orthodox. That is what I feel is wrong and should change. I have submitted a complaint regarding such things but it seems, at least so far, I have been completely ignored.

Oh, and if we are allegedly "guests" here, then what kind of party in hell did we stumble upon?Huh  laugh
Haha. I gotcha. I have been told before, that some moderation here goes on behind the scene. But I don't know. I guess what it comes down to is that this is an EO forum, so we are here playing by their rules. They will choose how they want to represent the EO faith to world.
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« Reply #102 on: November 02, 2010, 08:47:25 PM »

Regarding having both EO and OO mods, that probably comes, at least in part, from the original founders of the site being both EO and OO (ok, I think some were just on their way to being EO). So there has always been this EO/OO combination, even in the highest ranks of the administration of the forum. So, while there have been Catholics such as Lubeltri, Papist, Schultz (previous), Jakub, etc. around for a while, and also members of other groups (e.g. the Anglicans Keble and Ebor), these groups weren't part of the original "byzantine" or "eastern" idea behind the forum.

So I guess a number of things I said in this post was incorrect... sorry about that...  Lips Sealed
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« Reply #103 on: November 02, 2010, 08:56:02 PM »

We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ...
I think that's right. CAF does need an Orthodox section and an Orthodox moderator. I would vote for that. However, I am not sure that stashko would be the best candidate for the job of moderation on CAF.
On the other hand, I personally would not see any problem with having a R. Catholic moderator on the Orthodox board, at least for a section with dealt with Catholicism and how it relates to Orthodoxy, provided that that particular moderator had a record of posts which were generally fair and balanced.
Why would a Catholic site, that is supported by Catholics, and was created for the defense of the Catholic site, need an Eastern Orthodox section, moderated by an non-Catholic?
For the same reason that this site needs a RC (or EC) moderator and a Catholic section of the forum.
Interesting idea. I guess, being a guest here doesn't bother me too much. If certain moderators choose to moderate in an unfair manner, well that is on their consciences.
It isn't so much that I feel that certain actions by moderators have been directly unfair to me and other Catholics on the forum, but rather their inaction by failing to silence certain polemical trolls who like to take jabs at Catholicism and also happen to be Eastern (or Oriental) Orthodox. That is what I feel is wrong and should change. I have submitted a complaint regarding such things but it seems, at least so far, I have been completely ignored.

Oh, and if we are allegedly "guests" here, then what kind of party in hell did we stumble upon?Huh  laugh
Haha. I gotcha. I have been told before, that some moderation here goes on behind the scene. But I don't know. I guess what it comes down to is that this is an EO forum, so we are here playing by their rules. They will choose how they want to represent the EO faith to world.

I think it is more than that, and I speak from my own bitter experiences trying to herd cats.

I think that the management/moderators do indeed speak to Orthodox members here and ask them to tone down their rhetoric.  They do so publicly as well.  But they are, ultimately,  ignored.  And so they are faced with either having to MUTE or BAN a repeat offender, and that does not happen often to any of us, Orthodox or Catholic.  These are never things that you want to do with any member of a group.  That is not the purpose of operating a discussion group of any kind.

Best thing to do, as I've noted already, is not get your hopes up about making friends among the Orthodox.  That carries with it the same dangers as mixed marriages; you will get hurt at some point and you will hurt the other, with your own words or actions, at some point.  As long as we are in schism, it cannot be otherwise.

What you have the opportunity to practice is detachment, which is what we are instructed to do, if we dare to dream of ever inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven...eh?   And in that state of detachment then we have the opportunity to practice true Christian charity, which means taking care of the other first, regardless of how it feels.  That is always the part that the social justice folks miss...How to practice love and detachment simultaneously.... Smiley.....Do you see what a marvelous opportunity our Orthodox brothers and sisters offer us here?

M.
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« Reply #104 on: November 02, 2010, 09:09:27 PM »

We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ...
I think that's right. CAF does need an Orthodox section and an Orthodox moderator. I would vote for that. However, I am not sure that stashko would be the best candidate for the job of moderation on CAF.
On the other hand, I personally would not see any problem with having a R. Catholic moderator on the Orthodox board, at least for a section with dealt with Catholicism and how it relates to Orthodoxy, provided that that particular moderator had a record of posts which were generally fair and balanced.
Why would a Catholic site, that is supported by Catholics, and was created for the defense of the Catholic site, need an Eastern Orthodox section, moderated by an non-Catholic?
For the same reason that this site needs a RC (or EC) moderator and a Catholic section of the forum.
Interesting idea. I guess, being a guest here doesn't bother me too much. If certain moderators choose to moderate in an unfair manner, well that is on their consciences.
It isn't so much that I feel that certain actions by moderators have been directly unfair to me and other Catholics on the forum, but rather their inaction by failing to silence certain polemical trolls who like to take jabs at Catholicism and also happen to be Eastern (or Oriental) Orthodox. That is what I feel is wrong and should change. I have submitted a complaint regarding such things but it seems, at least so far, I have been completely ignored.

Oh, and if we are allegedly "guests" here, then what kind of party in hell did we stumble upon?Huh  laugh
Haha. I gotcha. I have been told before, that some moderation here goes on behind the scene. But I don't know. I guess what it comes down to is that this is an EO forum, so we are here playing by their rules. They will choose how they want to represent the EO faith to world.

I think it is more than that, and I speak from my own bitter experiences trying to herd cats.

I think that the management/moderators do indeed speak to Orthodox members here and ask them to tone down their rhetoric.  They do so publicly as well.  But they are, ultimately,  ignored.  And so they are faced with either having to MUTE or BAN a repeat offender, and that does not happen often to any of us, Orthodox or Catholic.  These are never things that you want to do with any member of a group.  That is not the purpose of operating a discussion group of any kind.

Best thing to do, as I've noted already, is not get your hopes up about making friends among the Orthodox.  That carries with it the same dangers as mixed marriages; you will get hurt at some point and you will hurt the other, with your own words or actions, at some point.  As long as we are in schism, it cannot be otherwise.

What you have the opportunity to practice is detachment, which is what we are instructed to do, if we dare to dream of ever inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven...eh?   And in that state of detachment then we have the opportunity to practice true Christian charity, which means taking care of the other first, regardless of how it feels.  That is always the part that the social justice folks miss...How to practice love and detachment simultaneously.... Smiley.....Do you see what a marvelous opportunity our Orthodox brothers and sisters offer us here?

M.
You are right. And indeed that level of detachment is difficult.
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« Reply #105 on: November 02, 2010, 09:17:23 PM »


Best thing to do, as I've noted already, is not get your hopes up about making friends among the Orthodox.


I know that you are speaking from some bitter experiences, both here and on your home list, but there are times when the Orthodox do have to take out the shillelagh and rattle it.  I recall the awful time when you were insisting that the Orthodox allow abortion and another time when you were insisting that an Orthodox second marriage is non-sacramental <shudder>.

But friendships can be formed between Catholics and Orthodox.    For example I consider Stanley123 a friend. He and I have known one another through some tumultuous times on CAF and also here on OC.net. So I do not share your pessimism about friendships.
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« Reply #106 on: November 02, 2010, 09:43:08 PM »



Best thing to do, as I've noted already, is not get your hopes up about making friends among the Orthodox.  That carries with it the same dangers as mixed marriages; you will get hurt at some point and you will hurt the other, with your own words or actions, at some point.  As long as we are in schism, it cannot be otherwise.



M.

I would have to disagree.  My two longest friendships (in real life) have been with Roman Catholics, going back to my hardcore Evangelical days in high school.  We've had many discussions/arguments on religious topics over the years, but nothing that would ever approach the level of friendship-breaking. 

I would be much the poorer if my friendship demanded that all agree with me, indeed I probably wouldn't have any friends at all.

I certainly hope that not every Roman Catholic that posts here thinks that we could never be friends just because we have disagreements on issues of ecclesiology.  We might not be able to partake of each others sacraments, but outside of Church I see no reason for not sharing a glass of wine.
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« Reply #107 on: November 02, 2010, 09:46:29 PM »



Best thing to do, as I've noted already, is not get your hopes up about making friends among the Orthodox.  That carries with it the same dangers as mixed marriages; you will get hurt at some point and you will hurt the other, with your own words or actions, at some point.  As long as we are in schism, it cannot be otherwise.



M.

I would have to disagree.  My two longest friendships (in real life) have been with Roman Catholics, going back to my hardcore Evangelical days in high school.  We've had many discussions/arguments on religious topics over the years, but nothing that would ever approach the level of friendship-breaking. 

I would be much the poorer if my friendship demanded that all agree with me, indeed I probably wouldn't have any friends at all.

I certainly hope that not every Roman Catholic that posts here thinks that we could never be friends just because we have disagreements on issues of ecclesiology.  We might not be able to partake of each others sacraments, but outside of Church I see no reason for not sharing a glass of wine.
I think that what Elijahmaria is concerned with is the extreme anti-Catholicism we see in many EOs. It would be hard for me to be friends with some one who believed the CC to be the whore of babylon, and that the Pope is the anti-christ.
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« Reply #108 on: November 02, 2010, 09:59:57 PM »



Best thing to do, as I've noted already, is not get your hopes up about making friends among the Orthodox.  That carries with it the same dangers as mixed marriages; you will get hurt at some point and you will hurt the other, with your own words or actions, at some point.  As long as we are in schism, it cannot be otherwise.



M.

I would have to disagree.  My two longest friendships (in real life) have been with Roman Catholics, going back to my hardcore Evangelical days in high school.  We've had many discussions/arguments on religious topics over the years, but nothing that would ever approach the level of friendship-breaking.  

I would be much the poorer if my friendship demanded that all agree with me, indeed I probably wouldn't have any friends at all.

I certainly hope that not every Roman Catholic that posts here thinks that we could never be friends just because we have disagreements on issues of ecclesiology.  We might not be able to partake of each others sacraments, but outside of Church I see no reason for not sharing a glass of wine.
I think that what Elijahmaria is concerned with is the extreme anti-Catholicism we see in many EOs. It would be hard for me to be friends with some one who believed the CC to be the whore of babylon, and that the Pope is the anti-christ.

I must have had some extremely tolerant friends, then, back in my "Death Cookie" days  Wink
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« Reply #109 on: November 02, 2010, 10:29:26 PM »

I think that what Elijahmaria is concerned with is the extreme anti-Catholicism we see in many EOs. It would be hard for me to be friends with some one who believed the CC to be the whore of babylon, and that the Pope is the anti-christ.

It is an unfortunate circumstance of melding cultural memory (something the Easterners specialize in) with legitimate concerns with a dash of irrational hatred.  I really do wish that many of the virulent anti-Catholics could just drop the rhetoric, state their concerns, and then be happy enough sitting down for tea with y'all.
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« Reply #110 on: November 02, 2010, 10:59:34 PM »

I think that what Elijahmaria is concerned with is the extreme anti-Catholicism we see in many EOs. It would be hard for me to be friends with some one who believed the CC to be the whore of babylon, and that the Pope is the anti-christ.

It is an unfortunate circumstance of melding cultural memory (something the Easterners specialize in) with legitimate concerns with a dash of irrational hatred.  I really do wish that many of the virulent anti-Catholics could just drop the rhetoric, state their concerns, and then be happy enough sitting down for tea with y'all.

Dear Father,

I am not suggesting that Catholics and Orthodox cannot be friends, any more than I would seek to ban mixed marriages!!

I am suggesting that in every case it will be difficult for someone in that dyad or cluster at some point.

And I am also saying that with extreme cases of disdain, it is impossible to be truly friends.

I am primarily cautioning my fellow Catholics to be prepared to be hurt on this Forum, and then be happy when it does not happen.

Mary
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« Reply #111 on: November 02, 2010, 11:38:24 PM »

I will continue to celebrate with any and all Christians as much as I can....
Even Mormons?

Bold.

And what is his criteria for determining what constitutes genuine Christianity?

We should humble ourselves and act as the servant. I would require no more of a christian than Christ did to the man on the cross next to him who Jesus promised would be in paradise with him that day.
This man simply admitted he was a sinner and acknowledged Jesus as the son of God who would have his Kingdom in Heaven.  

The point I made was for Catholics which is what this thread was about and I gave a description of why I was saying that as far as communion in any church means they believe as we all do in Christ as the Savior who died for our sins.The divisions exist because everyone wants to puff themselves up and act like the Pharisees who thought they were in charge as opposed to God.

Luke 23 NIV

39One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Christ? Save yourself and us!”

40But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”

42Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.f”

43Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”

I believe that we should act as if we have more in common than not as most of us Christians believe in the same Jesus Christ who died for our sins. Too many time I here bickering and discord over minor issues . Or at least we can find some common ground before we act as if we are enemies. I see this also that many are working together towards a common goal but I point out discord more because that is what bothers me as being wrong or that we are taught to do it by leaders.
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« Reply #112 on: November 03, 2010, 12:26:22 AM »

another time when you were insisting that an Orthodox second marriage is non-sacramental <shudder>.

The Pedalion

The 15 Canons of Neoceasarea

CANON VII
No Presbyter is permitted to dine at the weddjng of persons marrying a
second time. For, if the plight of a digamist is one demanding repentance,
what will be that of a presbyter who is lending his consent to the wedding by
attending it?

Interpretation
The present Canon decrees that no presbyter shall sit down and eat
dinner at the wedding of a digamist, since the digamist is burdened with
sin and under the penalty of a sentence. If, therefore, the priest should sit
down and eat, he thereby shows that he is offering his good will and congratulations
himself to the one who is burdened with sin and condemnation
on account of that wedding. For the first marriage, according to St.
Gregory the Theologian, serves as the law. For there is but one conjugation,
both of the wife to the husband and of the husband to the wife,
laid down as legislation through the divine utterance and presence at the
wedding held in Cana. That is why the parties to a first marriage, being
uncondemned, are nuptially crowned and partake of the divine Mysteries
(and see the Footnote to c. XIII of the 6th). But the second marriage is a
concession. For use of it is allowed only as a matter of concession and
accomodation. Because even though St. Paul did say concerning widows,
'but if they cannot remain continent, let them marry" (1 Cor. 7:9), St.
Chrysostom, in interpreting this passage, declares that St. Paul said this
by way of permission, and not by way of command (cf. I Cor. 7:6)
the same manner, that is to say, in which he permitted persons married for
the first time in their life to indulge in frequent intercourse on account of
their incontinence). But if he did say it by way of permission, it is manifest
that such a marriage is neither reasonable nor free from condemnation,
but that it is under condemnation and is in the nature of a sin. Hence
according to c. 1V of St, Basil the parties to such a marriage are barred
from the divine Mysteries for a year or two, while, according to c. II of
Nicephoms, they are not even entitled to a nuptial coronation. That is
why God-bearing Ignatius said in his epistle to the Antiochenes: "One
woman to any one man; not many women to any one man, was given in
creation." Clement of Alexandria (otherwise known as Clement Stromateus)
says: "One who marries a second time is not sinning according to the
covenant (or testament), but he is not fulfilling the demands of evangelical
perfection. It does him heavenly glory if he keeps the marriage tie sundered
by death untainted by gladly obeying the economy.''

But why is it that a priest is not consenting to the condemned marriage of digamists
when he blesses it, but does so when he attends and eats at the wedding? To this
question one may reply that the church ceremony and blessing are something that
a priest is obliged to perform as a matter of necessity. because without these accessories
the parties to this marriage by permission cannot be yoked together. Hence,
inasmuch as the priest does this merely as a matter of downright necessity, he is
not consenting to it. But when it comes to attending and eating at the wedding, besides
not being necessary, this is in addition a sign of joy. Hence anyone that does
this is showing, in a way, that he too congratulates, or shares in the joy of the one
committing such a sinful act. Though it is true that Zonaras says that Patriarchs and
Metropolitans have been seen eating together with twice-married emperors and
kings, yet the fact remains that such occasions are few and far between, and are
outside the regular scheme of strictness, and consequently cannot be made a law
of the Church. For Nicetas of Hcraclcia. too, in his c. I say that it has become the
custom for presbyters who performed the church ceremonies connected with second
marriages not to attend the dinner. So much for that Canon. But. although Nicetas
himself says that strict custom is opposed to nuptial coronations in connection with
second marriages, yet the custom of the Great Church is not to observe such ricetics;
they arc outside of canonical strictness. Wherefore we ought not even to imitate
them. For the crowns placed upon the heads of persons getting married are symbols
of victory, according to St. Chrysostom (Homily 9 on the First Epistle to Timothy),
signifying that after becoming invincible they are thus being yoked together, and
that they have not been overcome by pleasure, by which digamists appear to have
been conquered and on this account have become unworthy of the crowns. Note.
however, that we ought not to abhor and shun digamists. For this was one of the failings of the Novatians that characterized them as unorthodox, according to c. VIII ofthe first Ec. C. Instead, we ought to communicate with them, according to the same
authority, notwithstanding that divine Chrysostom does state that many persons used
to make fun of people who married a second time, and that many persons used to shun
them and hate their friendship (page 265 of Volume VI. in his discourse on Virginity).
But that priests ought not to eat with those attending the wedding of digamists is asserted
also by Nicetas the Chartophylax of Thessalonica (page 350 of Juris Graeco-
Romani).
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« Reply #113 on: November 03, 2010, 12:44:19 AM »



Best thing to do, as I've noted already, is not get your hopes up about making friends among the Orthodox.  That carries with it the same dangers as mixed marriages; you will get hurt at some point and you will hurt the other, with your own words or actions, at some point.  As long as we are in schism, it cannot be otherwise.



M.

I would have to disagree.  My two longest friendships (in real life) have been with Roman Catholics, going back to my hardcore Evangelical days in high school.  We've had many discussions/arguments on religious topics over the years, but nothing that would ever approach the level of friendship-breaking. 

I would be much the poorer if my friendship demanded that all agree with me, indeed I probably wouldn't have any friends at all.

I certainly hope that not every Roman Catholic that posts here thinks that we could never be friends just because we have disagreements on issues of ecclesiology.  We might not be able to partake of each others sacraments, but outside of Church I see no reason for not sharing a glass of wine.
I think that what Elijahmaria is concerned with is the extreme anti-Catholicism we see in many EOs. It would be hard for me to be friends with some one who believed the CC to be the whore of babylon, and that the Pope is the anti-christ.

Okay, but this is the Internet. When has anything on the Internet been balanced? When has a forum been dedicated to truth, but preoccupied with niceties? You say it's extreme anti-(Roman) Catholicism. I say it's just because you're in a place that is dedicated to hashing out things like differences between Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy and things like that. You are ascribing something to people from your own very limited experience of them. You only know them on this site in narrow conversations about topics, many of which go nowhere because most people are not even on the same page, not having either the same experiences or understandings, making references to people and statements in other threads, on other forums, which have little to do with the topic at hand except to various partisans on the thread or in the mind of the singular beholder. Cut people some slack, man. People come on waaaaay stronger online than they do in person, so your perception of them is skewed.
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« Reply #114 on: November 03, 2010, 12:53:15 AM »

Offensive to whom, the Eastern Orthodox? Perhaps I will quit being offensive when they start showing a bit more concern for being respectful to us.
No one forces you to stay here. If you feel persecuted, you can quit. Surprisingly not everyone from your confession feels that way, so maybe it's not about "the disrespect torwards the Catholics" but reactions of particular members?
There's more than a few of us who feel persecuted. I just happen to be the one shouting the loudest right now. Plus, why would I leave after being persecuted? If anything, that makes me want to stay all the more, lest you guys have something to boast about (i.e. Woohoo! We ran off another evil Roman heretic!).

You remind me of Orthodox converts who appoint themselves the defenders of Orthodoxy. God doesn't need us to defend anything. He's very capable doing it Himself. Concentrate on better things, brother.
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« Reply #115 on: November 03, 2010, 12:57:01 AM »

You remind me of Orthodox converts who appoint themselves the defenders of Orthodoxy. God doesn't need us to defend anything. He's very capable doing it Himself. Concentrate on better things, brother.
Why don't you tell your comrade ialmisry that? He is certainly a greater troll than I could ever be.
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« Reply #116 on: November 03, 2010, 01:05:59 AM »

The Pedalion

The 15 Canons of Neoceasarea

CANON VII

Canon IX of this Council is a real doozy.  It requires the permanent suspension of nearly all the Catholic priests, among my friends and family circle,  with whom I have discussed such intimate matters at dinner parties.  Whether or not it invalidates their celebration of the Mass, I do not know

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« Reply #117 on: November 03, 2010, 01:08:58 AM »

You remind me of Orthodox converts who appoint themselves the defenders of Orthodoxy. God doesn't need us to defend anything. He's very capable doing it Himself. Concentrate on better things, brother.
Why don't you tell your comrade ialmisry that? He is certainly a greater troll than I could ever be.

Brother, seriously, this resentment will do you no spiritual good. You complain of bad feelings from some Orthodox (I, personally, bear you no ill will), and yet you perpetuate bad feeling with many of your comments. I hope that your soul can come to better peace.
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« Reply #118 on: November 03, 2010, 01:11:09 AM »

I just happen to be the one shouting the loudest right now. Plus, why would I leave after being persecuted? If anything, that makes me want to stay all the more, lest you guys have something to boast about (i.e. Woohoo! We ran off another evil Roman heretic!).

Got much of a martyr complex there?
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« Reply #119 on: November 03, 2010, 02:51:43 AM »

We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ...
I think that's right. CAF does need an Orthodox section and an Orthodox moderator. I would vote for that. However, I am not sure that stashko would be the best candidate for the job of moderation on CAF.
On the other hand, I personally would not see any problem with having a R. Catholic moderator on the Orthodox board, at least for a section with dealt with Catholicism and how it relates to Orthodoxy, provided that that particular moderator had a record of posts which were generally fair and balanced.
Why would a Catholic site, that is supported by Catholics, and was created for the defense of the Catholic site, need an Eastern Orthodox section, moderated by an non-Catholic?
For the same reason that this site needs a RC (or EC) moderator and a Catholic section of the forum.
Interesting idea. I guess, being a guest here doesn't bother me too much. If certain moderators choose to moderate in an unfair manner, well that is on their consciences.
It isn't so much that I feel that certain actions by moderators have been directly unfair to me and other Catholics on the forum, but rather their inaction by failing to silence certain polemical trolls who like to take jabs at Catholicism and also happen to be Eastern (or Oriental) Orthodox. That is what I feel is wrong and should change. I have submitted a complaint regarding such things but it seems, at least so far, I have been completely ignored.
The silence of the moderator team is not evidence that we have ignored your complaints. We have heard your complaints but found nothing in them truly worthy of action. If the person you complain about most, Ialmisry, attacks you personally, be assured that we will be on him as quickly as mice on cheese. But in one of the more recent incidents where you complained about him, all he did was speak of your chief bishop and his office in ways that, though accurate, were rhetorically charged and revealing of his anti-Roman bias. The fact that you found this profoundly insulting does not make what he did inappropriate; it just means you were insulted, which says just as much about you as it does about Isa. IIRC, others of your RC co-religionists were just as insulted as you by his polemics, but they are now on THIS thread voicing their disagreement with your assertion that we need a separate Catholic section moderated by a Catholic poster. Why do you think that is?

Papist is right. Why would an Orthodox Christian site, that is supported by Orthodox and created for the propagation and defense of the Orthodox faith, need a Catholic section moderated by a Catholic? Wouldn't that just allow people of another faith that very few Orthodox consider to be fully part of Christ's Body the Church (unlike the OO, whom many of us EO deem fully Orthodox) to take over a part of our Orthodox forum? Why would we do that? That makes no sense. Not to insinuate that RC's are nothing but predators, which I know to NOT be the least bit true, but the metaphor that comes to mind is that of letting the foxes guard the hen house. You have plenty of places online where you can discuss Catholic issues with your Catholic brothers and sisters without having to take over a part of our forum for that purpose.
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« Reply #120 on: November 03, 2010, 07:46:37 AM »


Best thing to do, as I've noted already, is not get your hopes up about making friends among the Orthodox.

I know that you are speaking from some bitter experiences, both here and on your home list, but there are times when the Orthodox do have to take out the shillelagh and rattle it.  I recall the awful time when you were insisting that the Orthodox allow abortion and another time when you were insisting that an Orthodox second marriage is non-sacramental <shudder>.

But friendships can be formed between Catholics and Orthodox.    For example I consider Stanley123 a friend. He and I have known one another through some tumultuous times on CAF and also here on OC.net. So I do not share your pessimism about friendships.

I would have to agree with Father Ambrose, whom I consider an old and very dear friend. He and I have been through a great many experiences together (including proving the point that it is possible for both Eastern Catholics and Eastern Orthodox to be banned, nearly simultaneously, from a Catholic site Cheesy ).

And I have no problem acknowledging that there are several Orthodox posters here whom I consider friends and whom I hope would feel the same way towards me.  Father Anastasios and I go back to a time before he, Phil/Mor Ephrem, and Robert initiated this forum. There are any number of others, some still here, others no longer active, with whom I share an equally long history, here, at ByzCath, or both, as well as at CAF (before 'the purge' there), and some at TAW.

There are also members here with whom I've butted heads - not so much here, but elsewhere - but for whom I have considerable respect - and hope they feel the same way toward me, albeit we have sometimes caused each others teeth to ache (with all due respect to my brothers, Isa and Stashko come to mind Cheesy )

I'd suggest that the ability to co-exist in an environment such as this is less about which temple the Mod worships in than about respect for one another and the ability to recognize and accept that one should expect others to be committed to their own beliefs, as each of us is to his or hers own beliefs. There are significant differences between the zeal that is a mark of commitment to one's faith and zealotry, which is rarely becoming.

To very closely paraphrase the words of an old friend, who moderated some of us at CAF in days now long past, "it is acceptable to discuss, dialogue, question, disagree with, and debate the doctrines and dogmas of our respective Churches. However, all such exchanges should be civil and charitable, consistent with the expectations of discourse in polite society. It is acceptable to question the doctrine or dogma of another's faith, but never acceptable to question the sincerity of an individual's beliefs."

Finally, it good to think about the very likely prospect that we might someday be called to answer for what we did, in this life, to bring about an end to disunity between and among the Churches, which one cannot imagine is pleasing to He Whom we each profess as Lord and to remember, also that it is not ours to judge others, that right belongs to He who will ultimately judge us as well.

Many years,

Neil
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« Reply #121 on: November 03, 2010, 08:42:06 AM »


The silence of the moderator team is not evidence that we have ignored your complaints. We have heard your complaints but found nothing in them truly worthy of action. If the person you complain about most, Ialmisry, attacks you personally, be assured that we will be on him as quickly as mice on cheese. But in one of the more recent incidents where you complained about him, all he did was speak of your chief bishop and his office in ways that, though accurate, were rhetorically charged and revealing of his anti-Roman bias.

Dear PtA,

Here is the crux of much of Wyatt's distress.  

IF a man calls me an ugly dog of a woman, and I AM, in sad truth, an ugly dog of a woman, there is some sense of truth and justice in me that will allow me to be hurt by the assessment but I will not become angered by it, for it is just and true.

IF the same man calls me a liar, and I am NOT a liar, and I work very hard to not be a liar, then I will not be hurt by the assessment, but in truth and justice I will find myself in a state of anger over the assessment.

What Ialmisry does is offer, for whatever cause or motive, a false image of the Catholic Church and presses it and by pressing it does a grave injustice to all Catholics on this board, and also all Orthodox as well.

The reason I do not press for a Catholic space on this board, operated by a Catholic or group of Catholics, is that I really do not care to waste my energy pressing a futile request for real, not personal, justice.  In point of fact, I do agree that there could be far better justice done on this board to the truth of Catholic teaching, but emotions and false attributions prevail more often than not.  I simply think that those of us who can survive on the Forum long enough can do as much to redress that injustice, as any Catholic moderator can do.  It is, again, not a matter of feelings, but a matter of basic justice and attention to the truth that motivates my presence here and how I approach all members of the Forum.  I hope that my fellow Catholics continue to pursue that opportunity, and I am grateful to the owners for making that possible.

Mary
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« Reply #122 on: November 03, 2010, 12:21:55 PM »

^ I remaine on this forum because it continues to strengthen my faith in the Catholic Church, and because, over the years, there are some people here who I have grown to respect. There are also some people who just get online so that they can be all around jerks. LOL. It's a mixed bag.
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« Reply #123 on: November 03, 2010, 01:11:33 PM »

^ I remaine on this forum because it continues to strengthen my faith in the Catholic Church
This is certainly true for me as well. After some of the conversations I have had here, I am more sure than ever that I am in the right Church.
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« Reply #124 on: November 03, 2010, 01:50:15 PM »

Realistically I think it's a waste of time to expect "justice" or "fairness" on ANY Internet discussion board, on ANY topic.

I still have fond memories of the flame wars that would erupt on the old "Long Hair Site" between those who advocated the occasional "split end trim" and those who opposed any sharp objects touching one's locks at all.

Fun!!  We even had our own version of stashko, an unrepentant long-hair who insisted that the very EXISTENCE of barber shops was a sign of Satanic influence.
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« Reply #125 on: November 03, 2010, 01:57:23 PM »

Realistically I think it's a waste of time to expect "justice" or "fairness" on ANY Internet discussion board, on ANY topic.

I still have fond memories of the flame wars that would erupt on the old "Long Hair Site" between those who advocated the occasional "split end trim" and those who opposed any sharp objects touching one's locks at all.

Fun!!  We even had our own version of stashko, an unrepentant long-hair who insisted that the very EXISTENCE of barber shops was a sign of Satanic influence.

haha!!! I have to agree with you. There will never be absolute "fairness" on an online forum.
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« Reply #126 on: November 03, 2010, 01:57:53 PM »

Realistically I think it's a waste of time to expect "justice" or "fairness" on ANY Internet discussion board, on ANY topic.

I still have fond memories of the flame wars that would erupt on the old "Long Hair Site" between those who advocated the occasional "split end trim" and those who opposed any sharp objects touching one's locks at all.

Fun!!  We even had our own version of stashko, an unrepentant long-hair who insisted that the very EXISTENCE of barber shops was a sign of Satanic influence.
Do you think stashko sports a mullet? Smiley
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« Reply #127 on: November 03, 2010, 02:08:06 PM »

^ I remaine on this forum because it continues to strengthen my faith in the Catholic Church
This is certainly true for me as well. After some of the conversations I have had here, I am more sure than ever that I am in the right Church.
judging from your posts, I am convinced your are in the right ecclesiastical community as well.
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« Reply #128 on: November 03, 2010, 02:14:03 PM »

There are also members here with whom I've butted heads - not so much here, but elsewhere - but for whom I have considerable respect - and hope they feel the same way toward me, albeit we have sometimes caused each others teeth to ache (with all due respect to my brothers, Isa and Stashko come to mind Cheesy )

I have considerable respect for you, although I cannot recall you giving my teeth occassion to ache.
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« Reply #129 on: November 03, 2010, 02:55:12 PM »

Realistically I think it's a waste of time to expect "justice" or "fairness" on ANY Internet discussion board, on ANY topic.

I still have fond memories of the flame wars that would erupt on the old "Long Hair Site" between those who advocated the occasional "split end trim" and those who opposed any sharp objects touching one's locks at all.

Fun!!  We even had our own version of stashko, an unrepentant long-hair who insisted that the very EXISTENCE of barber shops was a sign of Satanic influence.
Do you think stashko sports a mullet? Smiley

Oh, I hope not. Mullets on Serbs make St. Sava weep, albeit not as much as Serbs who abandon Orthodoxy.
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« Reply #130 on: November 03, 2010, 03:24:28 PM »

You remind me of Orthodox converts who appoint themselves the defenders of Orthodoxy. God doesn't need us to defend anything. He's very capable doing it Himself. Concentrate on better things, brother.
I get your point to a degree (that I shouldn't get so worked up about online conversations), but I also slightly disagree with the last point about God not needing us to defend anything. If that is completely and entirely true that means all of the Holy Martyrs throughout the history of the Church died in vain since they had no reason to defend since God could do it all by Himself. We, of course, know that that is not true. While God certainly can do anything He wishes, we know He prefers working through people. If I ever had the opportunity to die for Christ I hope I would make the right decision, yet I don't know how I would react if faced with such a choice. Good thing form of martyrdom I have to go through is just enduring people badmouthing my Church. Of course, this doesn't just happen on the internet. I have Protestant a friend who is quite vocal about his hatred of the Catholic Church.

Please pray for me because it is a lot to endure and is part of the reason I have such a hair trigger temper when it comes to people talking bad about my Church. I have never been mocked and ridiculed more for my beliefs than after I joined the Catholic Church. Heck, when I was still a Protestant I joined in and took jabs at the Catholic Church too, but I eventually realized that my problems I had with Catholicism were based on misconceptions rather than facts.
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« Reply #131 on: November 03, 2010, 05:31:46 PM »



Knock of the comparisons of other people in other fourms with people in our own.  They are dangerously close, if not actually, ad hominems.

I'm feeling better and will hopefully be able to string together a coherent statement tomorrow.

-Schultz.
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« Reply #132 on: November 03, 2010, 09:14:27 PM »

Offensive to whom, the Eastern Orthodox? Perhaps I will quit being offensive when they start showing a bit more concern for being respectful to us.
No one forces you to stay here. If you feel persecuted, you can quit. Surprisingly not everyone from your confession feels that way, so maybe it's not about "the disrespect torwards the Catholics" but reactions of particular members?
There's more than a few of us who feel persecuted. I just happen to be the one shouting the loudest right now. Plus, why would I leave after being persecuted? If anything, that makes me want to stay all the more, lest you guys have something to boast about (i.e. Woohoo! We ran off another evil Roman heretic!).

You think you're being persecuted here? I am an Orthodox Christian at a Roman Catholic school who is not permitted to have a job on campus because I am not Roman Catholic and I was refused an exemption from the University meal plan to practice Orthodox fasting. When that starts happening here to you, then I think we can talk.

In Christ,
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« Reply #133 on: November 03, 2010, 09:20:15 PM »

Sorry, Schultz - and stashko. I meant no offense, the comparison was meant as a light-hearted joke - but I seem to be antagonizing a lot of people today so .maybe I will just go back to bed and pull the covers up over my head for a few days. Sad
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« Reply #134 on: November 03, 2010, 10:01:48 PM »


I would have to agree with Father Ambrose, whom I consider an old and very dear friend. He and I have been through a great many experiences together (including proving the point that it is possible for both Eastern Catholics and Eastern Orthodox to be banned, nearly simultaneously, from a Catholic site Cheesy ).


Ave Nilus!  Beidh tú i do dlúthchara i gcónaí.

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« Reply #135 on: November 03, 2010, 10:18:46 PM »

Sorry, Schultz - and stashko. I meant no offense, the comparison was meant as a light-hearted joke - but I seem to be antagonizing a lot of people today so .maybe I will just go back to bed and pull the covers up over my head for a few days. Sad


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« Reply #136 on: November 03, 2010, 10:31:24 PM »

We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ..Because the Catholic mods Are Banning the orthodox Posters....
That's because the Orthodox were causing trouble, gaining converts and such. Wink
Actually, it was because some of the EOs were very rude guests.

What you Latins identify as "rudeness" in ecclesiastical matters is often not that reasonable.
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« Reply #137 on: November 03, 2010, 10:33:06 PM »

We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ..Because the Catholic mods Are Banning the orthodox Posters....
That's because the Orthodox were causing trouble, gaining converts and such. Wink
Actually, it was because some of the EOs were very rude guests.

What you Latins identify as "rudeness" in ecclesiastical matters is often not that reasonable.
Huh Do you know the context of what you're addressing?
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« Reply #138 on: November 03, 2010, 11:43:42 PM »


Best thing to do, as I've noted already, is not get your hopes up about making friends among the Orthodox.


I know that you are speaking from some bitter experiences, both here and on your home list, but there are times when the Orthodox do have to take out the shillelagh and rattle it.  I recall the awful time when you were insisting that the Orthodox allow abortion and another time when you were insisting that an Orthodox second marriage is non-sacramental <shudder>.

But friendships can be formed between Catholics and Orthodox.    For example I consider Stanley123 a friend. He and I have known one another through some tumultuous times on CAF and also here on OC.net. So I do not share your pessimism about friendships.
Thank you Father Ambrose for considering me as your friend,  and I would like to think in terms of good will and friendship toward many other people on this board. Perhaps the problem being referred to  by elijahmaria concerns the fact that the internet communication process lacks the customary face to face contact and instead is formed by the potentially  impersonal  process of typing and online posting of messages.
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« Reply #139 on: November 03, 2010, 11:57:14 PM »

We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ..Because the Catholic mods Are Banning the orthodox Posters....
That's because the Orthodox were causing trouble, gaining converts and such. Wink

I see your smiley   Wink ..... but all the same, I want to say that the Orthodox were not causing trouble on CAF and both sides, Catholic and Orthodox, were enjoying the vigorous discussions which took place.  The problem for the Catholic moderators was the number of conversions, perhaps about 30 during the time I was a member.  There was no proselytism by the Orthodox but Catholics became attracted to Orthodoxy and some made the changeover.

The moderators told us that the financial supporters of CAF complained about the conversions since they were not handing over their donations to see Catholics disappearing into Orthodoxy.  Seems a reasonable point of view from their side.

And so, the overwhelming majority of us were banned and 99% of our posts were annihilated.  Even some of the Catholics seen as too friendly to the Orthodox were banned, including the Catholic Moderator of that particular sub forum!!  He was in particular a great loss to CAF, he has an encyclopaedic knowledge of all Eastern Catholic matters, as well as being a very affable and genuine chap.
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« Reply #140 on: November 04, 2010, 12:07:46 AM »

The hugest ever thread on OC.net is that devoted to "The Great CAF Purge of 2007."   Smiley

As we were banned from CAF many of us fell into deep shock, and then word began to go around that there was another Forum ~ OrthodoxChristianity.net.  So one by one, shocked and numb from what had befallen us on CAF we made our way to OC.net.  And here we were warmly welcomed as brothers coming from the battlefield, bloody but unbowed.  

The OC.net mods, obviously  knowing how much we needed tender care and therapy and to reestablish contact with one another, allowed that thread to run on and on.  Did we ever say Thank You for that?    If not ~  Thank You, dear OC.net mods, for taking us in and giving us a healing place.

"catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion"
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13287.0.html
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« Reply #141 on: November 04, 2010, 12:37:07 AM »

The hugest ever thread on OC.net is that devoted to "The Great CAF Purge of 2007."   Smiley

As we were banned from CAF many of us fell into deep shock, and then word began to go around that there was another Forum ~ OrthodoxChristianity.net.  So one by one, shocked and numb from what had befallen us on CAF we made our way to OC.net.  And here we were warmly welcomed as brothers coming from the battlefield, bloody but unbowed.  

The OC.net mods, obviously  knowing how much we needed tender care and therapy and to reestablish contact with one another, allowed that thread to run on and on.  Did we ever say Thank You for that?    If not ~  Thank You, dear OC.net mods, for taking us in and giving us a healing place.

"catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion"
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13287.0.html

Yes. Thanks.

The scrubbing of the files is the greatest evil.  Reminds me of Winston Smith in the Ministry of Truth.
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« Reply #142 on: November 04, 2010, 03:57:10 AM »

The hugest ever thread on OC.net is that devoted to "The Great CAF Purge of 2007."   Smiley

The OC.net mods, obviously  knowing how much we needed tender care and therapy and to reestablish contact with one another, allowed that thread to run on and on.  Did we ever say Thank You for that?    If not ~  Thank You, dear OC.net mods, for taking us in and giving us a healing place.

Bless, Father,

True indeed. Although I myself had a home forum to which I returned after the purge, I also revisited OC.net, where I had been an occasional poster for a long time. And, indeed, the 'refugees' - all of us, EO, EC, OO, OC, and Latin (and one can find some of each among posters to the thread that you linked) - were welcomed warmly and courteously here and allowed to vent, for a protracted period unequaled in my experience of many years participating in web fora. Even the process of weaning us from that thread was handled with a high degree of both charity and professionalism, facilitated by the appearance of and posting here by Joe Monahan, our former CAF Mod, which definitely helped give closure to the events.

As you note, the many who either first came here under those circumstances or returned here in them do indeed owe a 'thanks' to Father Anastasios and the Admin and Mod staff here for the welcome they afforded us in what was a dark time.  For those who would see Orthodox-Catholic relationships online or elsewhere as solely contentious, what happened back then gives lie to the notion - as posters at CAF knowingly brought bans on themselves by protesting the exclusion of their brethren, without concerning themselves as to where those brothers worshipped.

My thanks as well to all those who welcomed me and my friends back then.

Many years,

Neil
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« Reply #143 on: November 04, 2010, 04:11:18 AM »

There are also members here with whom I've butted heads - not so much here, but elsewhere - but for whom I have considerable respect - and hope they feel the same way toward me, albeit we have sometimes caused each others teeth to ache (with all due respect to my brothers, Isa and Stashko come to mind Cheesy )

I have considerable respect for you, although I cannot recall you giving my teeth occassion to ache.

LOL, Isa,

I meant no offense, just that we are both strongly opinionated and, on a few occasions (which we could revisit were it not for the ridiculous 'scrubbing of the files' to which you made reference), we butted heads rather strongly, evoking occasional reminders from Joe as to the rules of debate.

I heartily agree with you, by the way, the incredible loss of threads replete with information on any and every topic of liturgy, praxis, hagiographic information, photos, discussions of ecclesiastical architecture, iconography, and chant, eas well as learned discussions on both sides of theological debates, was and remains more painful than the banning. We were gone. It could and should have been allowed to remain as a resource.

Many years,

Neil
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« Reply #144 on: November 04, 2010, 08:47:36 AM »

 Did we ever say Thank You for that?    If not ~  Thank You, dear OC.net mods, for taking us in and giving us a healing place.

"catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion"
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13287.0.html

On behalf of the Mod Staff, let me say that you are very welcome, Father! I do hope that healing has occurred, and is occuring even now.

May the Lord remember your priesthood in His Kingdom!

+FrChris
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« Reply #145 on: November 04, 2010, 10:24:17 AM »

You really are second class citizens here (actually it would be more accurate to say that you really aren't citizens at all), and I don't see how that it is an unreasonable approach.

When I was invited to this forum I was not informed that being Catholic relegated me to second class status nor do I find any such statements in Rules.  

It is not explicitly stated but the degree to which you are allowed to participate on this site is established as inherently less than an EO and OO; the logical conclusion of this is that you are regarded as a second class citizen or a non-citizen.


There is no appreciable difference between how an EO, OO, or RC can participate here.  Indeed, the reason why we have such varied sub-forums is to encourage full particpation of all our members no matter their confession.  We do, however, have rules for each of those forum especially the Faith Issues and the Convert Issues forum.  This does not mean that non-Orthodox cannot participate there; it simply means that those areas are set aside for specific types of posts that, by definition, cannot allow any proselytization or non-Orthodox "counter-posts".  No one would mind if a Catholic suggested to a prospective convert in the Convert Issues forum who had issues with icons to read St. John of Damascus' defense of icons.

We welcome all posters, regardless of their religious communion, to participate here at OC.net so long as they follow the rules.

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« Reply #146 on: November 04, 2010, 11:16:14 AM »

If EO, OO, and RCs were treated equally then we should have a Catholic section rather than one just comparing Catholicism and Orthodoxy (the OO have their own section rather than an Oriental Orthodox - Eastern Orthodox Discussion) and we should be represented in the moderation team. Anything else suggests that there is credibility to what deusveritasest was saying about us being second class or non-citizens. If we are non-citizens that is fine, but don't try to say we enjoy the same rights as everyone else and then turn around and immediately deny us those rights.
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« Reply #147 on: November 04, 2010, 11:24:09 AM »


Firstly, a hearty thank you to those who have said kind words in this thread about my moderation.  It is very much appreciated.

Now, I am not obligated to justify myself nor the actions of the moderation staff.  Participation in this sub-forum and all the forums on OC.net are voluntary.  If you can't handle the personality clashes and sniping that invariably arise from participation in any forum, even the most dry, academic ones, you are free to leave and not participate in the discussions at any time.  I myself left this forum once when, as an Eastern Catholic, I felt slighted one too many times and stayed away for a number of years.  In time, I realized that this site, of all the Orthodox fora on the internet, is the place most conducive to actual, provocative discussions but also the most welcoming of all such websites on the internet for heterodox Christians and even non-Christians.  My experience as a moderator for the past year has only reinforced that belief. 

I was nominated for this position because I was a former communicant of the Roman Catholic Church and I have demonstrably no ill will towards my old co-religionists or the church that birthed and fed me for over 30 years.  I simply came to the realization a few years ago that I no longer considered the universal jurisdiction of the papacy and papal infallibility to be a dogmatic necessity for the Christian life and, as such, found myself holding on to the tenets of the Orthodox Church more than that of the Roman Catholics.  There was no one moment when I rejected the teaching of Vatican I out of anger, spite or resentment; it was a gradual realization that came to full fruition on (Gregorian Pentecost) 2008.  I like to think that my posts as an Orthodox Christian and as a moderator bear out the fact that I have no ill will towards the Roman Catholic Church and those in communion with her to the point where I dare anyone to find such a post.  If anything, since my chrismation, I have taken pains to correct gross errors and bald lies about her.

Now we get to my moderation style.  This topic began with a comparison between this sub-fora and EO-OO subfora, moderated by Salpy.  What Salpy does over there is her business, as far as I'm concerned.  The history between the EO and OO on OC.net is far more incendiary than that of the Catholics and the Orthodox (quick note: I use and will continue to use those terms in their generally accepted meanings; you will not hear nor win any semantic games with me) and Salpy feels the need to police that forum with vigilance and swift action to keep the proverbial fire smoldering as opposed to raging. 

You will not find such heavy handedness in the Orthodox-Catholic discussion forum, at least while I'm moderating it.  You are all adults (with a few exceptions who tend to act more mature than most of the "adults" around here).  I am not your mother who is going to smack you on the mouth and send you into the corner to think about some ridiculous, disrespectful comment you said to the kid down the street.  I expect these things from posters in my forum:

1) Stay on topic.  The most egregious offense you can commit here is to go off on a tangent worthy of its own thread.  You all are obviously capable of using this forum and starting a new thread.  If you find a side comment of yours engenders its own conversation, either use the Report to Moderator function and ask a mod to split the topic or, better yet, start a new thread yourself.  It's not that hard.  In fact, the time and effort necessary to do so may just be the time you need to not shoot from the hip, so to speak, and end up typing a ridiculous, disrespectful post that you'll later regret, either in a few days on here or on Judgment Day in front of the Lord God Almighty.

2) No name calling.  You all know what this means.  I should not have to elaborate any further.

3) Don't feed the trolls.  Every forum has its drive-by posters (and even resident ones) whose posts are obviously inflammatory for the sake of being inflammatory.  Don't encourage them.  I don't care how much your fingers want to dash off yet another inflammatory post to combat the first one; it's counter-productive.  So the next time some delusional fool with a vendetta against the Roman Catholic Church posts yet another article about Cardinal Stepanic, don't feed the troll. 

That's it.  It's really that simple.  If you feel like someone's acting out of line, USE THE REPORT TO MODERATOR FUNCTION.  Yes, we are sometimes slow or even unresponsive.  I know I rarely take action without consensus from at least two other moderators unless something is obviously against the rules (posting pornography, for instance).  The moderation staff will get to your report and get back to you personally.  Remember, we are all volunteers, especially the clergy we are blessed to have as administrators and final-says, as it were. 

In short, behave yourselves.  I'm not here as a moderator to corral or cajole you into good behavior.  You're all adults who have to answer to the Almighty for everything you post here on OC.net, be you Catholic, Orthodox, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, atheist, etc.  I'm here to make sure that the letter of the law is followed in hopes that you all will be able to discern the spirit of our policies.  I cannot make you do so; you have to make the choice to do it yourself.

If you do not like the way we run things, perhaps you would find edification elsewhere.  This is not a democracy and further agitation for a "Catholic section with a Catholic moderator" will be met with an increase in warning status.

This is the end of this thread.

-Schultz.
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