Author Topic: Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?  (Read 3841 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Lenexa

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 159
  • VOCATUS ATQUE NON VOCATUS, DEUS ADERIT
Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?
« on: October 31, 2010, 09:32:16 PM »
This is perhaps the weirdest story I've ever heard!!!
I suppose the date I post it is appropriate ;)
I have to admit that while I tend to be a rather sceptical person when it comes to conspiracy theories and those quick to point to events as apocalyptic sign but this relic is real and I am at a loss as to what to think of it? Is there proof that this horned-handed relic is indeed a relic of St.George and that it has always made such a strange sign?
I have read of a certain Sicilian St.Cataldo who gave the sign of the Horns as well?
Please somebody explain this one away for me!
I don't like feeling so creeped out!
http://www.henrymakow.com/_june_23_2010_--.html
http://www.apocalypse.ge/apost_mkrexeluri_litanioba.html


Online PeterTheAleut

  • The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,068
  • Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2010, 09:34:40 PM »
Why do you automatically buy the explanation that this hand symbol is satanic?
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Lenexa

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 159
  • VOCATUS ATQUE NON VOCATUS, DEUS ADERIT
Re: Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2010, 09:40:52 PM »
Why do you automatically buy the explanation that this hand symbol is satanic?
I know that I should be more sceptical, I admit I gave in to the sensationalism of the articles I read, however it is also that I just always have been told the horns is the horns to heaven and the three fingers are a denial of the Trinity.
Of course, you could just as easily say that it is simply an old hand symbol confessing faith in the trinity and the two natures of Christ!
Still I'd like to learn more about this.
I've seen the Satanic Rockers and real Satanists make the horned hand sign many times and it evokes the same reaction when I look at this relic, God have Mercy!
« Last Edit: October 31, 2010, 09:41:35 PM by Lenexa »

Offline dcommini

  • Tha mi sgulan na Trianaid
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,214
  • Beannachd Dia dhuit
    • Life of an Orthodox Soldier
Re: Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2010, 10:04:10 PM »
Why do you automatically buy the explanation that this hand symbol is satanic?
I know that I should be more sceptical, I admit I gave in to the sensationalism of the articles I read, however it is also that I just always have been told the horns is the horns to heaven and the three fingers are a denial of the Trinity.
Of course, you could just as easily say that it is simply an old hand symbol confessing faith in the trinity and the two natures of Christ!
Still I'd like to learn more about this.
I've seen the Satanic Rockers and real Satanists make the horned hand sign many times and it evokes the same reaction when I look at this relic, God have Mercy!

I have read some where that the sign of the horns was a way to ward off evil, much like the sign of the cross, whether or no this is true i do not know, but perhaps that is why the hand is like that?
N/OblSB

Gun cuireadh do chupa thairis le slàinte agus sona - May your cup overflow with health and happiness
Check out my blog...

Offline 88Devin12

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,148
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Antioch
Re: Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2010, 10:05:41 PM »
Thing is, the "sign of the horns" as such is a very new sign, I think it only dates the 1970s.

I'm sure in the past it was used like other such gestures as a superstition, as stated before, it didn't used to mean what it does today.

Plus even today its not a Satanic symbol, it's simply a gesture used in Rock-N-Roll... Even if Satanists use it, they weren't the ones who created it, nor that made it popular.

Offline dcommini

  • Tha mi sgulan na Trianaid
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,214
  • Beannachd Dia dhuit
    • Life of an Orthodox Soldier
Re: Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2010, 10:11:17 PM »
Thing is, the "sign of the horns" as such is a very new sign, I think it only dates the 1970s.

I'm sure in the past it was used like other such gestures as a superstition, as stated before, it didn't used to mean what it does today.

Plus even today its not a Satanic symbol, it's simply a gesture used in Rock-N-Roll... Even if Satanists use it, they weren't the ones who created it, nor that made it popular.

I think it was Dio of Black Sabbath who started incorporating the horns in concerts (or so he claimed). I believe he said he remembered his grandmother from southern Italy using the sign of the horn in a superstitious way and thought it would look cool to throw up in the middle of a rock song...

I could be wrong though
N/OblSB

Gun cuireadh do chupa thairis le slàinte agus sona - May your cup overflow with health and happiness
Check out my blog...

Offline theistgal

  • Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic gadfly
  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,082
  • don't even go there!
Re: Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2010, 10:11:54 PM »
Remember that the meanings of signs and symbols can change from one era to the next.  The Swastika, for example, used to be just another version of the Cross, till the Nazis turned it into a symbol of evil.

Maybe the "horns" thing was originally just a different type of blessing - who knows?
"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)

Offline Ionnis

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,077
Re: Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2010, 10:31:03 PM »
One of the many reasons I can't swallow the Old Calendarist Zealots pill.  Too kooky.  It all screams demonic delusion to me.  In my experience, the types that promote this stuff are enslaved to fear and pride.  I would be more sympathetic to Old Calendarist schismatics if they would stop posting all this stuff, ranting about the Zionist-Occultic-Ecumenist-Papist-Apostate-AntiChrist-Ecumenical Patriarchate-Communist Orthodox Church.  All it does is thoroughly convince me that they are in fact graceless and moved by demonic spirits. 
"If you cannot find Christ in the beggar at the church door, you will not find Him in the chalice.”  -The Divine John Chrysostom

“Till we can become divine, we must be content to be human, lest in our hurry for change we sink to something lower.” -Anthony Trollope

Offline 88Devin12

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,148
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Antioch
Re: Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2010, 10:49:31 PM »
Thing is, the "sign of the horns" as such is a very new sign, I think it only dates the 1970s.

I'm sure in the past it was used like other such gestures as a superstition, as stated before, it didn't used to mean what it does today.

Plus even today its not a Satanic symbol, it's simply a gesture used in Rock-N-Roll... Even if Satanists use it, they weren't the ones who created it, nor that made it popular.

I think it was Dio of Black Sabbath who started incorporating the horns in concerts (or so he claimed). I believe he said he remembered his grandmother from southern Italy using the sign of the horn in a superstitious way and thought it would look cool to throw up in the middle of a rock song...

I could be wrong though
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign_of_the_horns

I think it's open for a lot of debate who the person was that pioneered it.

Offline FormerReformer

  • Convertodox of the convertodox
  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,558
    • Music and Orthodoxy
  • Faith: Convertodox
  • Jurisdiction: Netodoxy
Re: Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2010, 10:54:51 PM »
All it proves is that St George was Metal!

Come to think of it, the icon of St George would make a killer album cover.
"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

Oh, no: I've succumbed to Hyperdoxy!

Offline Justin Kissel

  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 32,521
Re: Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2010, 11:22:45 PM »
The first Christian metalhead. Most excellent!

Offline FormerReformer

  • Convertodox of the convertodox
  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,558
    • Music and Orthodoxy
  • Faith: Convertodox
  • Jurisdiction: Netodoxy
Re: Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2010, 11:41:36 PM »
The first Christian metalhead. Most excellent!

Would you go so far to say... "RIGHTEOUS!"?
"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

Oh, no: I've succumbed to Hyperdoxy!

Offline Alveus Lacuna

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,062
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2010, 11:53:16 PM »
One of the many reasons I can't swallow the Old Calendarist Zealots pill.  Too kooky.  It all screams demonic delusion to me.  In my experience, the types that promote this stuff are enslaved to fear and pride.  I would be more sympathetic to Old Calendarist schismatics if they would stop posting all this stuff, ranting about the Zionist-Occultic-Ecumenist-Papist-Apostate-AntiChrist-Ecumenical Patriarchate-Communist Orthodox Church.  All it does is thoroughly convince me that they are in fact graceless and moved by demonic spirits. 

This post is simply it.

Offline biro

  • Site Supporter
  • Hoplitarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,325
Re: Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2010, 12:00:07 AM »
Scroll down to the last paragraph of the page on this link.

It says that the relic of St. George's hand once flowed myrrh. That may explain it.

http://www.pigizois.net/agglika/athoniko_gerontiko/19.htm

Offline Justin Kissel

  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 32,521
Re: Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2010, 12:00:44 AM »
The first Christian metalhead. Most excellent!

Would you go so far to say... "RIGHTEOUS!"?

 :D

Offline Lichnidos

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 265
  • Powerslavlje strong in this one is.
Re: Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2010, 12:05:42 AM »
I'm not sure if it's "good" or "bad" - but these relics are certainly different.

MP Texas Longhorn Fans? "Hook em' Horns?"
"Men do not differ much about what things they will call evils; they differ enormously about what evils they will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

Offline Cymbyz

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 496
Re: Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2010, 12:40:48 AM »
I never knew the sign of the Horns to be Satanic.  When made pointing upward, as in the picture, it is used by fans of the University of Texas Longhorns while rooting for their team.  When made pointing at someone, it telegraphs the message, "You're a cuckold," and that particular usage goes back as far as the Renaissance, if not farther.
The end of the world
is as near as the day of your death;
watch and pray.
 
 Yahoo! & WLM ID: Owen

Offline samkim

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 735
Re: Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2010, 12:54:12 AM »
LOL. I go to UT. Not doing too hot this season.
주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.

Offline mike

  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,589
Re: Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2010, 03:31:56 AM »
For the last 3-4 months I've been waiting when a thread about this would be started. I am satisfied now.
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

not everything I typed before [insert current date] may reflect my current views on the subject

Offline Ortho_cat

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,392
Re: Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2010, 06:11:34 AM »
Maybe St. George was a Texas Longhorns fan like this George?



Offline Lichnidos

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 265
  • Powerslavlje strong in this one is.
Re: Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2010, 10:24:49 AM »
On a side note. Being from Arizona the Arizona State University "Sun Devils" have a "pitchfork" hand sign



Little do these unsuspecting youth know that as they attempt to make a sign of beelzebub they're actually making THE sign of Christ! :)

« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 10:25:20 AM by Lichnidos »
"Men do not differ much about what things they will call evils; they differ enormously about what evils they will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

Offline rakovsky

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,843
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2010, 10:42:42 AM »
Regarding the hand relic, please see the thread on the Russian section on the subject:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,28480.0.html
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 10:46:48 AM by rakovsky »

Offline bogdan

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,615
Re: Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2010, 11:29:36 AM »
One of the many reasons I can't swallow the Old Calendarist Zealots pill.  Too kooky.  It all screams demonic delusion to me.  In my experience, the types that promote this stuff are enslaved to fear and pride.  I would be more sympathetic to Old Calendarist schismatics if they would stop posting all this stuff, ranting about the Zionist-Occultic-Ecumenist-Papist-Apostate-AntiChrist-Ecumenical Patriarchate-Communist Orthodox Church.  All it does is thoroughly convince me that they are in fact graceless and moved by demonic spirits. 

This post is simply it.

What about Freemasons?  :P

Offline dcommini

  • Tha mi sgulan na Trianaid
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,214
  • Beannachd Dia dhuit
    • Life of an Orthodox Soldier
Re: Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2010, 02:09:36 PM »
The first Christian metalhead. Most excellent!

Would you go so far to say... "RIGHTEOUS!"?

STATION!
N/OblSB

Gun cuireadh do chupa thairis le slàinte agus sona - May your cup overflow with health and happiness
Check out my blog...

Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,527
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of the South (OCA)
Re: Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2010, 03:26:02 PM »
Why would anyone link to a filthy, evil site that was linked to by the OP? AS for the OP, I would ask where in the world is your discernment?

Offline Ionnis

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,077
Re: Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2010, 11:03:03 PM »
One of the many reasons I can't swallow the Old Calendarist Zealots pill.  Too kooky.  It all screams demonic delusion to me.  In my experience, the types that promote this stuff are enslaved to fear and pride.  I would be more sympathetic to Old Calendarist schismatics if they would stop posting all this stuff, ranting about the Zionist-Occultic-Ecumenist-Papist-Apostate-AntiChrist-Ecumenical Patriarchate-Communist Orthodox Church.  All it does is thoroughly convince me that they are in fact graceless and moved by demonic spirits. 

This post is simply it.

What about Freemasons?  :P


Shhh.  Don't blow my cover. ;)
"If you cannot find Christ in the beggar at the church door, you will not find Him in the chalice.”  -The Divine John Chrysostom

“Till we can become divine, we must be content to be human, lest in our hurry for change we sink to something lower.” -Anthony Trollope

Offline thetraditionalfrog

  • Traditional Frog
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 197
Re: Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2010, 02:07:17 AM »
Oh brooooother! This is a case of much ado about nothing! This is simply a arm and hand reliquary containing a relic of St George. If looked at from a different angle you would see a hand raised in blessing rather than a "horns" symbol of some sort. There are plenty of these at various Orthodox churches and monasteries, particularly of note are some on the Holy Mountain (Mt Athos). I dare say, none of these places would have, let alone approve of something "demonic".

As for the Russian website, it seems to belong to an Orthodox jurisdiction opposed to the Moscow Patriarchate, judging from it's content (I do read Russian). I do like the pop up that proclaims Xhristos Voskrese though!
“For the honorable Cross and golden freedom!” -Sv Lazar

 “Give up everything for Christ, but Christ for nothing!” -Sv Sava

Offline Monk Vasyl

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 623
    • Web site of our parish, St. Andrew UOCof USA
Re: Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2010, 09:12:28 AM »
The more I look at that photo, the more it looks like the formation that a priest uses to bless people.
The unworthy hierodeacon, Vasyl

Offline biro

  • Site Supporter
  • Hoplitarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,325
Re: Satanic Relic? Satanism in the MP?
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2010, 10:24:25 AM »
The more I look at that photo, the more it looks like the formation that a priest uses to bless people.

That would make sense.   :)

As for the earlier question about St. Cataldo, or Cathaldus:

http://www.iol.ie/~clogheen/clogheen/clogpage/cataldo1.html

It seems to be a Catholic site, but it's the only one about him I could find. It doesn't make him look like a figure to be feared.  :angel:
« Last Edit: November 02, 2010, 10:29:35 AM by biro »