OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 22, 2014, 09:19:12 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 »  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: My first visit, somewhat disappointed.  (Read 4593 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« on: October 31, 2010, 09:02:08 PM »

Hello all,
I attended an Antiochian Orthodox Christian Church today (here in Denver) for the first time and I must say my expectations were probably too high.

Since I want to now give my life back to the Lord, I decided that I wanted to find the origins of Christianity which led me to Orthodoxy. I've been reading plenty of articles regarding the faith and I agree with it to the fullest, it just seems not only logical but natural to me.

The more I read about Orthodox Church the more I was excited about it's worshipping which involved music. I was happy to see Jesus treated as someone who is "sacred" (for lack of a better term) and awed at the beauty of Orthodox worship.

However I attended my first High Mass this morning and I came away with feeling like an alien.  Considering my evangelical/Protestant background, I was confused on what was going on and could not even follow the book they had regarding prayers (which skipped around the pages alot). I felt that the priest and his assistant (I assume that's his title) genuinely worshipped the Lord however I myself am struggling to worship and I wonder if that is due to my lack of how to wroship properly in the Orthodox Church.

I was dissapointed by the lack of music, which I thought there was going to be. I don't know I guess I had this image in my head of what it was supposed to be like, but I was confused, uncertain and lost at the end of the Liturgy.
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
Ortho_cat
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: AOCA-DWMA
Posts: 5,392



« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2010, 09:07:53 PM »

When you say music, do you mean that there wasn't a choir? How small is the parish? This wasn't a western-rite was it? (I say this because you mentioned the term 'high mass') Also, was the liturgy done in english primarily?
« Last Edit: October 31, 2010, 09:08:18 PM by Ortho_cat » Logged
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2010, 09:11:34 PM »

Yes no choir was involved, and yes it was a Western-Rite and the liturgy was done in English, all of it. Am I not getting the correct interpretation of Orthodoxy?
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
Iconodule
Uranopolitan
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA (Diocese of Eastern Pennsylvania)
Posts: 7,019


"My god is greater."


« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2010, 09:14:03 PM »

Yes no choir was involved, and yes it was a Western-Rite and the liturgy was done in English, all of it. Am I not getting the correct interpretation of Orthodoxy?

There's nothing wrong with that, just know that Western Rite liturgies are very rare. Most Orthodox liturgies, in English or not, are sung.
Logged

"A riddle or the cricket's cry
Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2010, 09:16:34 PM »

The parish this morning had about 10 or less show up in attendance, sorry forgot to mention that.

I have nothing against the Chruch itself, I'm not sure I feel at home yet.

http://www.staugustinedenver.org/
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
Rufus
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA
Posts: leet


Nafpliotis with sunglasses and a cigar.


« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2010, 09:16:44 PM »

Hello all,
I attended an Antiochian Orthodox Christian Church today (here in Denver) for the first time and I must say my expectations were probably too high.

Since I want to now give my life back to the Lord, I decided that I wanted to find the origins of Christianity which led me to Orthodoxy. I've been reading plenty of articles regarding the faith and I agree with it to the fullest, it just seems not only logical but natural to me.

The more I read about Orthodox Church the more I was excited about it's worshipping which involved music. I was happy to see Jesus treated as someone who is "sacred" (for lack of a better term) and awed at the beauty of Orthodox worship.

Indeed, music seems natural to the worship of the heavenly tabernacle.

Quote
However I attended my first High Mass this morning and I came away with feeling like an alien.

This is not unusual for people's first time.

Quote
Considering my evangelical/Protestant background, I was confused on what was going on and could not even follow the book they had regarding prayers (which skipped around the pages alot).

Skipped around a lot... usually the Liturgy is practically identical every week, so I am surprised that this was the case. Obviously studying the content and structure of the Liturgy is a good thing, but sometimes it's best to just put down the book and worship.

Quote
I felt that the priest and his assistant (I assume that's his title)

deacon? Wink

Quote
genuinely worshipped the Lord however I myself am struggling to worship and I wonder if that is due to my lack of how to wroship properly in the Orthodox Church.

Worship is a continual learning process. Those of us who have been Orthodox our whole lives are still learning how to worship better.

Quote
I was dissapointed by the lack of music, which I thought there was going to be. I don't know I guess I had this image in my head of what it was supposed to be like, but I was confused, uncertain and lost at the end of the Liturgy.

Traditionally, the entire Liturgy is chanted or sung. As for confusion, again, that is common for first visits. I personally know people who hated their fist visit to the Liturgy, but are now Orthodox.

Maybe you could share with us some of the things you had trouble with...we'll help Smiley Smiley
« Last Edit: October 31, 2010, 09:18:32 PM by Rufus » Logged
Rufus
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA
Posts: leet


Nafpliotis with sunglasses and a cigar.


« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2010, 09:20:13 PM »

Now that you mention that it's Western Rite--well, maybe that explains some things. I've never been to a WR Liturgy, but I'll check it out. Do you have any parishes near you that do the traditional Divine Liturgy?
Logged
Ortho_cat
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: AOCA-DWMA
Posts: 5,392



« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2010, 09:22:29 PM »

Well, the western-rite churches are usually mission type and many of them are quite new and still in their infancy. Are you interested in western-rite orthodoxy specifically, or are you open to investigating eastern orthodox churches using byzantine rite? If you aren't partial either way, I would attend a byzantine liturgy and see if you like that better (assuming you have one in your area).
Logged
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2010, 09:24:57 PM »

Thanks Rufus,
I do not know how to go about researching a traditional Divine Liturgy in sofar as finding a parish that does that. Can you point me in the direction to a site that has locations of such parishes?

I guess my confusion relies in the practice of worship itself, I didn't have much of a guidline to follow. (Like when to do the sign of the cross for example). What is the significance of kneeling? Is it to bow in front of the Lord?

I guess I wanted to be moved spiritually but did not feel it today. Maybe my heart and head aren't where they are supposed to be at.

As far as it skipping, there was a book other Orthodox members were using that I can't remember the name of it(you can find it behind a bench), but they would be on page 10 and skip to a later part of the book and sometimes back. It was all so confusing to me.
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Posts: 30,094


Goodbye for now, my friend


« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2010, 09:28:13 PM »

This site might be of interest to you. It looks like there's about a dozen parishes within driving distance of Denver. I would guess that St. Augustine is the only western rite parish (though I'm not positive).
Logged

Paradosis ≠ Asteriktos ≠ Justin
Rufus
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA
Posts: leet


Nafpliotis with sunglasses and a cigar.


« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2010, 09:31:50 PM »

Can you point me in the direction to a site that has locations of such parishes?

This seems to work:
http://www.scoba.us/directory.html
Logged
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2010, 09:33:02 PM »

This site might be of interest to you. It looks like there's about a dozen parishes within driving distance of Denver. I would guess that St. Augustine is the only western rite parish (though I'm not positive).

Thank you so very much for the link. However OCA, Russian, Greek...what do I choose??
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
Rufus
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA
Posts: leet


Nafpliotis with sunglasses and a cigar.


« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2010, 09:33:40 PM »

This site might be of interest to you. It looks like there's about a dozen parishes within driving distance of Denver. I would guess that St. Augustine is the only western rite parish (though I'm not positive).

LOL an Orthodox parish named after St. Augustine.
Logged
Paisius
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Wherever the wind blows......
Posts: 1,081


Scheherazade


« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2010, 09:36:07 PM »

This site might be of interest to you. It looks like there's about a dozen parishes within driving distance of Denver. I would guess that St. Augustine is the only western rite parish (though I'm not positive).

Thank you so very much for the link. However OCA, Russian, Greek...what do I choose??


The OCA, Greek Archdiocese and the Antiochian Archdiocese will almost certainly have a large part, if not the entire liturgy in English.

And to give you fair warning. If you thought the Western Rite liturgy was foreign wait till you see Byzantine Divine Liturgy. My advice to you would be forget trying to follow along in a liturgy book. Just relax, absorb what's going on and participate as much as you feel comfortable.  Smiley
Logged

"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." - Frédéric Bastiat
Rufus
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA
Posts: leet


Nafpliotis with sunglasses and a cigar.


« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2010, 09:41:28 PM »

I guess my confusion relies in the practice of worship itself, I didn't have much of a guidline to follow. (Like when to do the sign of the cross for example).

You usually cross yourself whenever someone says, "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit," and whenever you hear anything like "Blessed is God," "Glory to God," etc. Beyond that, there's no hard-and-fast rule for when to cross yourself.

Quote
What is the significance of kneeling? Is it to bow in front of the Lord?

Must be a Western Rite thing--Orthodox traditionally never kneel on Sundays, because it is the Day of Resurrection. On other days, bowing and kneeling is a common expression of worship; kneeling is especially associated with humility and contrition for one's sins.
Logged
Rufus
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA
Posts: leet


Nafpliotis with sunglasses and a cigar.


« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2010, 09:43:50 PM »

This site might be of interest to you. It looks like there's about a dozen parishes within driving distance of Denver. I would guess that St. Augustine is the only western rite parish (though I'm not positive).

Thank you so very much for the link. However OCA, Russian, Greek...what do I choose??


The OCA, Greek Archdiocese and the Antiochian Archdiocese will almost certainly have a large part, if not the entire liturgy in English.

And to give you fair warning. If you thought the Western Rite liturgy was foreign wait till you see Byzantine Divine Liturgy. My advice to you would be forget trying to follow along in a liturgy book. Just relax, absorb what's going on and participate as much as you feel comfortable.  Smiley

After all, a big part of the meaning of the Liturgy has been to convey the Gospel to the masses, who, throughout most of history, were illiterate. Not to mention that Old World churches don't have pews, just an open space where everyone stands. So, following along in a book is really a modern intrusion into the Divine Liturgy.
Logged
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2010, 09:46:00 PM »

This site might be of interest to you. It looks like there's about a dozen parishes within driving distance of Denver. I would guess that St. Augustine is the only western rite parish (though I'm not positive).

LOL an Orthodox parish named after St. Augustine.

That also confused me as well considering the history of St. Augustine himself.


Paisius ~ So is there a more traditional one that has Liturgies in Latin, or whatever the traditional language used was?

Rufus ~ If I was to attend a Divine Liturgy on Wednesday, what is the difference between that Liturgy and one done on Sunday?
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
Rufus
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA
Posts: leet


Nafpliotis with sunglasses and a cigar.


« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2010, 09:49:07 PM »

Rufus ~ If I was to attend a Divine Liturgy on Wednesday, what is the difference between that Liturgy and one done on Sunday?

It will be a little shorter and less fancy, but the content will be the same.
Logged
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2010, 09:53:38 PM »

Rufus ~ If I was to attend a Divine Liturgy on Wednesday, what is the difference between that Liturgy and one done on Sunday?

It will be a little shorter and less fancy, but the content will be the same.

I see, so don't expect music?

How come the church I went to you didn't see people kissing the icons like I have been reading on other Orthodox churches? Is that because it is a Western-Rite church?
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
bogdan
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 1,615



« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2010, 09:59:56 PM »

Rufus ~ If I was to attend a Divine Liturgy on Wednesday, what is the difference between that Liturgy and one done on Sunday?

It will be a little shorter and less fancy, but the content will be the same.

I see, so don't expect music?

How come the church I went to you didn't see people kissing the icons like I have been reading on other Orthodox churches? Is that because it is a Western-Rite church?

While the Western Rite Mass has versions that can be either sung or spoken, the Divine Liturgy of Eastern Rite churches must be sung. Now, the quality and fanciness of the singing will depend on the ability and size of the choir and/or chanters.

As to the icons, Western Rite Orthodoxy tends toward statuary instead of icons. The two rites are very different, owing to their different histories and different cultural contexts.
Logged
Paisius
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Wherever the wind blows......
Posts: 1,081


Scheherazade


« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2010, 10:01:44 PM »

Paisius ~ So is there a more traditional one that has Liturgies in Latin, or whatever the traditional language used was?


The Greek parishes will have part of the liturgy in Greek. The amount of Greek can vary greatly depending on the parish. If you visit a ROCA (Russian Orthodox Church Abroad) parish a large part of the liturgy, if not all of it, may be in Old Church Slavonic. There is a Romanian parish in Denver that's part of the Romanian Episcopate of the OCA. Often their liturgies are served entirely in Romanian.

« Last Edit: October 31, 2010, 10:02:44 PM by Paisius » Logged

"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." - Frédéric Bastiat
Rufus
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA
Posts: leet


Nafpliotis with sunglasses and a cigar.


« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2010, 10:12:35 PM »

Rufus ~ If I was to attend a Divine Liturgy on Wednesday, what is the difference between that Liturgy and one done on Sunday?

It will be a little shorter and less fancy, but the content will be the same.

I see, so don't expect music?

How come the church I went to you didn't see people kissing the icons like I have been reading on other Orthodox churches? Is that because it is a Western-Rite church?

You will see all those things in tradtional Orthodox churches. As for Western Rite, as I do more research on it, the more it seems like a knock-off of the old Roman Mass. Ironic that the point of it was to help missionize, yet the new visitor doesn't like it.
Logged
Shlomlokh
主哀れめよ!
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Bulgarian
Posts: 1,267



« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2010, 10:15:45 PM »

This site might be of interest to you. It looks like there's about a dozen parishes within driving distance of Denver. I would guess that St. Augustine is the only western rite parish (though I'm not positive).

LOL an Orthodox parish named after St. Augustine.
Huh St. Augustine is a Saint in the Orthodox Church. Why shouldn't a church be named after him?

In Christ,
Andrew
Logged

"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos
Iconodule
Uranopolitan
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA (Diocese of Eastern Pennsylvania)
Posts: 7,019


"My god is greater."


« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2010, 10:16:24 PM »

Rufus ~ If I was to attend a Divine Liturgy on Wednesday, what is the difference between that Liturgy and one done on Sunday?

It will be a little shorter and less fancy, but the content will be the same.

I see, so don't expect music?

How come the church I went to you didn't see people kissing the icons like I have been reading on other Orthodox churches? Is that because it is a Western-Rite church?

You will see all those things in tradtional Orthodox churches. As for Western Rite, as I do more research on it, the more it seems like a knock-off of the old Roman Mass. Ironic that the point of it was to help missionize, yet the new visitor doesn't like it.

It missionizes a certain niche- traditionalist RC's, high church Anglicans and Lutherans. Outside of that, its appeal is probably limited.
Logged

"A riddle or the cricket's cry
Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake
Rufus
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA
Posts: leet


Nafpliotis with sunglasses and a cigar.


« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2010, 10:23:54 PM »

This site might be of interest to you. It looks like there's about a dozen parishes within driving distance of Denver. I would guess that St. Augustine is the only western rite parish (though I'm not positive).

LOL an Orthodox parish named after St. Augustine.
Huh St. Augustine is a Saint in the Orthodox Church. Why shouldn't a church be named after him?

In Christ,
Andrew

Yes, I just got a chuckle out of it because they might as well have a horn on the roof blaring "We're Western Rite."
Logged
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,963



« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2010, 10:42:52 PM »

I guess my confusion relies in the practice of worship itself, I didn't have much of a guidline to follow. (Like when to do the sign of the cross for example).

You usually cross yourself whenever someone says, "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit," and whenever you hear anything like "Blessed is God," "Glory to God," etc. Beyond that, there's no hard-and-fast rule for when to cross yourself.

Quote
What is the significance of kneeling? Is it to bow in front of the Lord?

Must be a Western Rite thing--Orthodox traditionally never kneel on Sundays, because it is the Day of Resurrection. On other days, bowing and kneeling is a common expression of worship; kneeling is especially associated with humility and contrition for one's sins.

It's not WRO. I've been to WRO DL where they do not kneel on Sunday, and plenty of Eastern rite who do (especially Romanians, just ask Augustine, who is VERY Eastern rite).  Btw, all the WRO I've been to had a sung DL. Btw, there is/was at least another WRO Church in Denver, St. Mark IIRC.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Shlomlokh
主哀れめよ!
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Bulgarian
Posts: 1,267



« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2010, 10:43:35 PM »

This site might be of interest to you. It looks like there's about a dozen parishes within driving distance of Denver. I would guess that St. Augustine is the only western rite parish (though I'm not positive).

LOL an Orthodox parish named after St. Augustine.
Huh St. Augustine is a Saint in the Orthodox Church. Why shouldn't a church be named after him?

In Christ,
Andrew

Yes, I just got a chuckle out of it because they might as well have a horn on the roof blaring "We're Western Rite."

Ah I understand now. I know there was a Greek Bishop named Agoustinos, and their may be a church in Greece named after him. But I suppose having St. Augustine as their patron would probably scream Western Rite, at least here in the States.

In Christ,
Andrew
Logged

"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos
FormerReformer
Convertodox of the convertodox
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: I'll take (e) for "all of the above"
Posts: 2,438



WWW
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2010, 10:43:57 PM »

The OCA parish will probably have the most amount of English in it's service, and if it's anything like the OCA parish I am now attending the service will probably be almost ENTIRELY sung.  Greek parishes can go either way, depending on how large the mix is between ethnic Greek and convert, expect anywhere from 25%-75% of the Liturgy to be in Greek, maybe a choir, but at the very least a chanter or two.  

It looks like both the Antiochian parishes in Denver are Western Rite (a rarity for any city), one following the Rite of St Gregory (the Roman Rite, which you just attended) and the other following the Rite of St Tikhon (an Orthodox version of the Anglican Book of Common Prayer, called St Mark's).  Interesting that Denver has not one but two Western Rite parishes, as they're something of a rarity.

Given the choice, you might want to attend the OCA parish as your main go-to Church for now, but be sure to check out your local Greek Churches at some point once you get a better grounding in the liturgical "dance" and Orthodox basics.
Logged

"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

Oh, no: I've succumbed to Hyperdoxy!
Rufus
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA
Posts: leet


Nafpliotis with sunglasses and a cigar.


« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2010, 10:58:40 PM »

I guess my confusion relies in the practice of worship itself, I didn't have much of a guidline to follow. (Like when to do the sign of the cross for example).

You usually cross yourself whenever someone says, "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit," and whenever you hear anything like "Blessed is God," "Glory to God," etc. Beyond that, there's no hard-and-fast rule for when to cross yourself.

Quote
What is the significance of kneeling? Is it to bow in front of the Lord?

Must be a Western Rite thing--Orthodox traditionally never kneel on Sundays, because it is the Day of Resurrection. On other days, bowing and kneeling is a common expression of worship; kneeling is especially associated with humility and contrition for one's sins.

It's not WRO. I've been to WRO DL where they do not kneel on Sunday, and plenty of Eastern rite who do (especially Romanians, just ask Augustine, who is VERY Eastern rite).  Btw, all the WRO I've been to had a sung DL. Btw, there is/was at least another WRO Church in Denver, St. Mark IIRC.

Ahh thank you. I actually come from a "kneeling" church, but I've always associated kneeling more with the West, so I made a false assumption.
Logged
Ortho_cat
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: AOCA-DWMA
Posts: 5,392



« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2010, 05:38:49 AM »

This site might be of interest to you. It looks like there's about a dozen parishes within driving distance of Denver. I would guess that St. Augustine is the only western rite parish (though I'm not positive).

LOL an Orthodox parish named after St. Augustine.

Ya, classic right?
Logged
Ortho_cat
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: AOCA-DWMA
Posts: 5,392



« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2010, 05:42:35 AM »

Rufus ~ If I was to attend a Divine Liturgy on Wednesday, what is the difference between that Liturgy and one done on Sunday?

It will be a little shorter and less fancy, but the content will be the same.

Most likely they will not have a sermon if it is a mid-week service.  Also, the choir does not typically sing during mid week liturgies. At least that is my experience.
Logged
Ortho_cat
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: AOCA-DWMA
Posts: 5,392



« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2010, 05:44:48 AM »


Given the choice, you might want to attend the OCA parish as your main go-to Church for now, but be sure to check out your local Greek Churches at some point once you get a better grounding in the liturgical "dance" and Orthodox basics.

I would also suggest checking out the OCA parish next given what you described to us that you are looking for.
Logged
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,869



« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2010, 11:32:11 AM »

Welcome to the forum and may the Lord bless your spiritual journey!

I recommend a couple of things. First check out Saint Herman of Alaska (OCA) Church in Littleton. Here is their site http://www.sthermanoca.org/?action=home. Please notice the schedule of services and the Thursday night inquirers class. Second, please read this short essay that has been quite useful for many newbies: "12 Things I Wish I’d Known…First Visit to an Orthodox Church" at http://www.frederica.com/12-things/.
Logged

Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Warned
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 14,031


Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου

fleem
WWW
« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2010, 01:01:20 PM »

I'm sorry you did not enjoy your visit. I hope you do try again.   Smiley   angel
Logged

Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?

Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied.

http://spcasuncoast.org/
PrincessMommy
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 734


OCA


« Reply #34 on: November 02, 2010, 09:40:48 PM »

Yes, do try again.  I didn't like liturgy the first time or two I went.  It does take some getting used to.  I  visited a WR parish early on too and also wasn't much impressed.  Definitely try every parish within reasonable distance...then keep going back to the one/s you like.\

edited to add:  if you can listen to part or all of a liturgy before you go it might help you to be a bit more familiar with the service.  I bought St. Vlad's DL CD and listened to it a lot when I first started going.  I I think it really helped me feel a bit more comfortable since I was coming from a Charismatic backgroun and didn't know anything about the liturgy. 

Ancient Faith radio online has lots of selections playing all day now too.

« Last Edit: November 02, 2010, 09:44:43 PM by PrincessMommy » Logged
HabteSelassie
Ises and I-ity
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 3,332



« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2010, 09:52:50 PM »

Hello all,
I attended an Antiochian Orthodox Christian Church today (here in Denver) for the first time and I must say my expectations were probably too high.

Since I want to now give my life back to the Lord, I decided that I wanted to find the origins of Christianity which led me to Orthodoxy. I've been reading plenty of articles regarding the faith and I agree with it to the fullest, it just seems not only logical but natural to me.

The more I read about Orthodox Church the more I was excited about it's worshipping which involved music. I was happy to see Jesus treated as someone who is "sacred" (for lack of a better term) and awed at the beauty of Orthodox worship.

However I attended my first High Mass this morning and I came away with feeling like an alien.  Considering my evangelical/Protestant background, I was confused on what was going on and could not even follow the book they had regarding prayers (which skipped around the pages alot). I felt that the priest and his assistant (I assume that's his title) genuinely worshipped the Lord however I myself am struggling to worship and I wonder if that is due to my lack of how to wroship properly in the Orthodox Church.

I was dissapointed by the lack of music, which I thought there was going to be. I don't know I guess I had this image in my head of what it was supposed to be like, but I was confused, uncertain and lost at the end of the Liturgy.

Greetings in that Divine and Most precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

The flavors and rhythms of Orthodox worship indeed take a life-time to adjust, don't feel so discouraged!  Did you honestly expect to walk into your first Mass and perfectly fit right in like a glove? Don't fret such things, if you feel the reverberation of Orthodoxy resonated within your Heart, then continue in this Faith as best you are able.  Attend services with no expectations other then to offer God the best worship you can, and feel no way about anything else.  Indeed, sometimes part of the Orthodox experience is to feel alienated, but do not fret, God will always offer a reconciliation to the sincere seeker who humbly knocks at the gates.
Next time you attend a service, leave the Mass book at home and simply stand there and experience the prayers, their sight and sound and feelings, experience them without expectations or interpretations, just as the raw life, stand in prayer burning like the candles, and surely in His Sacramental Time God will visit you. Remember above else, that there is seldom opportunities for instant gratification in the Orthodox Church, the purpose of Our Mother the Church is to teach us to operate within the economy of God's Time, and not our own, and this in and of itself is a frighteningly humbling experience sometimes.

And if you after more services still do not "feel it", then church hop other Orthodox congregations until you do "feel it"


stay blessed,
habte selassie
Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
ignatios
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 112



« Reply #36 on: November 03, 2010, 10:29:46 PM »

Achronos,

from my personal visiting experience, the Western Rite liturgy has much less music, although the one I attended did have a lot of more recent (medieval) hymns thrown in. The Eastern Rite is the one with ALL the bells and whistles. I can appreciate the WR, since I love the ancient Gregorian liturgy, but the ER is where my heart is. Also, when I first visited an ER church, I didn't really like it or understand it at all. It gets better. I am Orthodox now and I still haven't memorized it all since I'm a slow learner, but it is the most amazing thing in the world. My advice is to listen to as many of the songs and prayers as possible and put your heart into them. I grew up Roman Catholic, and wasn't taught that all the repetition and prayers were for me to actually participate with my whole heart!   laugh

May God bless you!
Logged
Thomas
Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 2,816



« Reply #37 on: November 04, 2010, 12:05:09 AM »

Achronos,WELCOME TO THE CONVERT ISSUES FORUM

St. Mark's is one of the more active WRO in the Antiichian  Orthodox Church, having a internet presence and very active parish life. You may wish to visit their website at http://www.westernorthodox.com/stmark/

i would recommend you attend both eastern & western rites of the Orthodox Church if you have the opportunity to do so.

THOMAS
CONVERT ISSUES FORUM MODERATOR
Logged

Your brother in Christ ,
Thomas
Tikhon.of.Colorado
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 2,363



« Reply #38 on: November 04, 2010, 10:17:08 AM »

I live quite close to Denver, and can tell you that there are several Eastern Orthodox Churches, instead of Western Rite, in Denver.  you probably went to St. Augustine's or St. Mark's.  there definatly not my favorite and not an example of mainstream Orthodoxy (being Western rite, and all).  

this is opne of my personal favorites, Assumption Cathedral:
http://www.assumptioncathedral.org/

and, there is Holy Transfiguration of Christ Cathedral.  though smaller than most "cathedral"'s, it belongs to the OCA, so it's ALL IN ENGLISH.
www.transfigcathedral.org/

this is my favorite Church in denver, of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia (ROCOR).  it's called All Saints of Russia".
http://rocordenver.org/



of course, if you are ever in my home town (Pueblo), you would be more than welcome at my Church, St. Michael's Orthodox Church.  we are OCA, so our liturgy, for the most part, is entirely English.
http://www.orthodoxpueblo.org/
« Last Edit: November 04, 2010, 10:18:19 AM by trevor72694 » Logged

"It is true that I am not always faithful, but I never lose courage, I leave myself in the Arms of Our Lord." - St. Thérèse of Lisieux
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,973


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2010, 12:09:03 PM »

I'd say if you've got a number of Orthodox parishes in your area, visit them all.

If you want to be Geek Orthodox, you can follow this handy crazy convert schema:

If the total number or parishes is between 12 and 40, visit each three times.
If the total number is between 3 and 12, visit each 12 times.
If the total number is between 1-3, visit each 40 times.

(Yeah, I just happened to think of it, so it may be stupid.)
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
Rufus
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA
Posts: leet


Nafpliotis with sunglasses and a cigar.


« Reply #40 on: November 04, 2010, 12:34:36 PM »

I'd say if you've got a number of Orthodox parishes in your area, visit them all.

If you want to be Geek Orthodox, you can follow this handy crazy convert schema:

If the total number or parishes is between 12 and 40, visit each three times.
If the total number is between 3 and 12, visit each 12 times.
If the total number is between 1-3, visit each 40 times.

(Yeah, I just happened to think of it, so it may be stupid.)

It would take, like, 3 years to finish all the visits. lol.
Logged
Benjamin the Red
Recovering Calvinist
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America, Diocese of Dallas and the South ||| American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 1,601


Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me.


« Reply #41 on: November 04, 2010, 12:55:44 PM »

I'd say if you've got a number of Orthodox parishes in your area, visit them all.

If you want to be Geek Orthodox, you can follow this handy crazy convert schema:

If the total number or parishes is between 12 and 40, visit each three times.
If the total number is between 3 and 12, visit each 12 times.
If the total number is between 1-3, visit each 40 times.

(Yeah, I just happened to think of it, so it may be stupid.)

It would take, like, 3 years to finish all the visits. lol.

Well, three years was the standard time in the catechumenate for the early Church. ;-)
Logged

"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy
serb1389
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom!
Global Moderator
Merarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 8,402


Michał Kalina's biggest fan

FrNPantic
WWW
« Reply #42 on: November 04, 2010, 02:16:54 PM »

I'd say if you've got a number of Orthodox parishes in your area, visit them all.

If you want to be Geek Orthodox, you can follow this handy crazy convert schema:

If the total number or parishes is between 12 and 40, visit each three times.
If the total number is between 3 and 12, visit each 12 times.
If the total number is between 1-3, visit each 40 times.

(Yeah, I just happened to think of it, so it may be stupid.)

It would take, like, 3 years to finish all the visits. lol.

Well, three years was the standard time in the catechumenate for the early Church. ;-)

Depending on who you read.. Wink Grin
Logged

I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,093


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #43 on: November 04, 2010, 03:07:13 PM »

I'd say if you've got a number of Orthodox parishes in your area, visit them all.

If you want to be Geek Orthodox, you can follow this handy crazy convert schema:

If the total number or parishes is between 12 and 40, visit each three times.
If the total number is between 3 and 12, visit each 12 times.
If the total number is between 1-3, visit each 40 times.

(Yeah, I just happened to think of it, so it may be stupid.)

So the minimum is 36, the maximum 144... There's too much variance in there.
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2010, 06:14:53 PM »

I want to thank everyone for participating and in helping me. I attended the Assumption Cathedral here in Denver and loved every minute of it. It was exactly what I was looking for and I felt right at home. I want to thank Trevor for pointing it out to me, I am grateful to you brother.

Now is it common in the Greek Orthodox Church that an organ is used along with sung liturgry?
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
Tags:
Pages: 1 2 »  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.157 seconds with 72 queries.