OrthodoxChristianity.net
May 19, 2013, 05:10:12 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you don't like the Lent theme or it's hard for you to read posts with it, feel free to revert back to the old theme in your profile on the left menu "Look and Layout Preferences."
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Question About Saint Justin  (Read 893 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Asteriktos
Domestikos tou thematos
*******************
Offline Offline

Posts: 20,604



« on: October 30, 2010, 07:04:07 AM »

According to the person(s) who wrote the Wikipedia article for St. Justin (Popovich), when he attended Oxford his doctoral thesis was rejected "due to its radical criticism of Western humanism, rationalism, Roman Catholicism, and anthropocentrism." Does anyone know the whole story? I very much doubt that St. Justin was "persecuted at Oxford" as the article says, but I'd like to know what did happen. Was his thesis really rejected because of the criticisms the article mentions, or was it because St. Justin didn't provide enough evidence for his claims, or for some other reason?
Logged
Punch
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Serbian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: New Gracanica Metropolitanate
Posts: 3,982



« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2010, 11:31:44 AM »

Another biography that attests to this:

http://www.spc.rs/eng/abba_justin_dyptich_saints_orthodox_church

Because of forthcoming riots theologians were withdrawn to England.In England Justin studied theology at the Oxford and he supported himself and not by the scholarships of the English government.His critique of the Western world he presented in his doctoral thesis "Religion and Philosophy of Dostoevsky", which was not accepted.Without diploma he returned to Serbia in 1919.
Logged
scamandrius
Voted in the top 10 of the most slovenly people on the internet
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek by desire; Antiochian by necessity
Posts: 4,370



WWW
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2010, 03:58:53 PM »

i suppose there is some irony here.  St. Justin attends a Western University and using all the tools that such a university offers--e.g. free inquiry, rationalism, lack of authoritarian, etc.--he produces a thesis which just shows how the western culture has become enslaved by such things (which are not necessarily bad) as to drive them away from God.  Probably better he didn't get that doctorate.  Fortunate, his glorified status didn't depend on it.
Logged

I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene

http://myorthodoxjourney.blogspot.com/
Father Peter
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: British Orthodox Church within the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate
Posts: 2,532



WWW
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2010, 04:44:02 PM »

But why was his thesis not accepted.

It seems that all the statements here are just being critical of the university without presenting any evidence.
Logged

Lord have mercy upon me a sinner
http://www.orthodoxmedway.org
Study the Orthodox Faith online with the London School of Orthodox Christian Studies
http://www.lsocs.co.uk

The poster formerly known as peterfarrington
Shanghaiski
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 5,500


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2010, 11:21:56 AM »

Consider the date of the rejection. This was well before criticism of Western civilization and philosophy became mainstream. Given that he was working in the humanities, I'm not at all surprised his thesis was rejected. Acceptance of a thesis relies not just on how well an argument is made, but whether people agree with the actual premise.
Logged

O Master Lord our God...who are wondrous in glory; who keeps his covenant and his mercy to them who love him with all their heart; who has given us redemption...through his only-begotten son, Jesus Christ...the life of everyone, the help of those who flee to him, the hope of those who cry to him.
Father Peter
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: British Orthodox Church within the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate
Posts: 2,532



WWW
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2010, 11:33:34 AM »

But that is again just a criticism without evidence.

I could just as easily say that St Justin had ginger hair, and that his thesis was presented long before ginger hair was acceptable in academic circles.

Either we can find out accurately and authoritatively why his thesis was rejected, or we are only criticising the University because we admire St Justin? How many other theses were rejected in those years by other students? Did he ever write down why it was rejected?
Logged

Lord have mercy upon me a sinner
http://www.orthodoxmedway.org
Study the Orthodox Faith online with the London School of Orthodox Christian Studies
http://www.lsocs.co.uk

The poster formerly known as peterfarrington
Punch
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Serbian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: New Gracanica Metropolitanate
Posts: 3,982



« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2010, 01:30:15 PM »

But that is again just a criticism without evidence.

I could just as easily say that St Justin had ginger hair, and that his thesis was presented long before ginger hair was acceptable in academic circles.

Either we can find out accurately and authoritatively why his thesis was rejected, or we are only criticising the University because we admire St Justin? How many other theses were rejected in those years by other students? Did he ever write down why it was rejected?

I think that you are being far too thin skinned here.  Nobody is criticising the University.  As I read it, they are simply stating the fact that his thesis was rejected.  From what I read, he faced far worse persecution in his own country than he ever did in England.
Logged
Father Peter
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: British Orthodox Church within the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate
Posts: 2,532



WWW
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2010, 01:33:03 PM »

I don't think I am being think skinned.

Posters here are saying that the university rejected his thesis because of its content. I merely asked that there be some evidence provided to show that this was the case and that he was persecuted in any sense by the university.

You are yourself using the language of persecution. I am only asking if it is appropriate.

Father Peter

Logged

Lord have mercy upon me a sinner
http://www.orthodoxmedway.org
Study the Orthodox Faith online with the London School of Orthodox Christian Studies
http://www.lsocs.co.uk

The poster formerly known as peterfarrington
Asteriktos
Domestikos tou thematos
*******************
Offline Offline

Posts: 20,604



« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2010, 02:33:10 AM »

Consider the date of the rejection. This was well before criticism of Western civilization and philosophy became mainstream. Given that he was working in the humanities, I'm not at all surprised his thesis was rejected. Acceptance of a thesis relies not just on how well an argument is made, but whether people agree with the actual premise.

Wouldn't that have been something that was ironed out before the actual thesis was written?
« Last Edit: November 02, 2010, 02:34:16 AM by Asteriktos » Logged
pensateomnia
Bibliophylax
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Posts: 2,278


metron ariston


« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2010, 07:39:57 AM »

Consider the date of the rejection. This was well before criticism of Western civilization and philosophy became mainstream. Given that he was working in the humanities, I'm not at all surprised his thesis was rejected. Acceptance of a thesis relies not just on how well an argument is made, but whether people agree with the actual premise.

Wouldn't that have been something that was ironed out before the actual thesis was written?

In the UK system, your adviser does not examine your dissertation. Your adviser helps you through the process, recommending bibliography, reading drafts, and offering suggestions for changes. Because of this help, the adviser is seen as lacking impartiality. Thus, two other academics read the finished manuscript, offer criticism, examine/ask the author to defend himself, and ultimately accept or reject the work as a substantial piece of scholarship (or not).

St. Justin's mentor, also an Oxford man, encouraged St. Justin to study in Oxford. Once Justin got there, however, he did not like what he saw. He refused bursaries or scholarships from the University, since he felt accepting money from a corrupt system would corrupt him. So it took him something like 10 or 12 years to write his dissertation, because he held down various jobs to support himself. He also refused to change the conclusions of his dissertation, despite his adviser's recommendations. Once it was rejected, he went to Athens, I believe, and received his doctorate there.

All that's according to various friends at Oxford, who heard it from Met. Kallistos, I believe.
Logged

But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)
IreneOlinyk
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox (EP)
Posts: 203


« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2012, 01:08:23 PM »

According to the person(s) who wrote the Wikipedia article for St. Justin (Popovich), when he attended Oxford his doctoral thesis was rejected "due to its radical criticism of Western humanism, rationalism, Roman Catholicism, and anthropocentrism." Does anyone know the whole story? I very much doubt that St. Justin was "persecuted at Oxford" as the article says, but I'd like to know what did happen. Was his thesis really rejected because of the criticisms the article mentions, or was it because St. Justin didn't provide enough evidence for his claims, or for some other reason?

I am assuming that the thesis was written in English and I wonder what happened to it?  Was it ever published?  Maybe as individual chapers in a church journal or was it translated into Serbian and then published?
Logged
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.055 seconds with 38 queries.