Author Topic: Christ the Eternal Tao  (Read 4836 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Justin Kissel

  • Formerly a *, now a ☆
  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 30,952
  • Faith: Agnosticish
Christ the Eternal Tao
« on: October 28, 2010, 02:07:24 PM »
Could someone give a brief summary of the contents of Christ the Eternal Tao by Hieromonk Damascene?
"Christian America is finally waking up to what fraternities and biker gangs have known for years: hazing works!"

Offline Papist

  • Patriarch of Pontification
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,640
  • Praying for the Christians in Iraq
Re: Christ the Eternal Tao
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2010, 02:08:02 PM »
I have been wanting to read this book as well.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline Alveus Lacuna

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,996
Re: Christ the Eternal Tao
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2010, 02:10:53 PM »
Could someone give a brief summary of the contents of Christ the Eternal Tao by Hieromonk Damascene?

http://ancientfaith.com/specials/christ_the_eternal_tao

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 16,970
Re: Christ the Eternal Tao
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2010, 03:59:37 PM »
Some of the less compelling stuff I've listened to on AFR. Seriously flawed. To imagine the degree of scholarship required to undertake such a work is staggering and even a lay person familiar with some of the material dealt with is going to have some eye-rolling moments.

But it is California. And Americans can't seem to get enough of "Taoism".

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.

Offline Jetavan

  • Argumentum ad australopithecum
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,580
  • Barlaam and Josaphat
    • The Mystical Theology
Re: Christ the Eternal Tao
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2010, 04:03:02 PM »
Could someone give a brief summary of the contents of Christ the Eternal Tao by Hieromonk Damascene?
Christ is the Logos. Logos is the Tao. Or something like that. ;)
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline Alveus Lacuna

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,996
Re: Christ the Eternal Tao
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2010, 04:08:46 PM »
Some of the less compelling stuff I've listened to on AFR. Seriously flawed. To imagine the degree of scholarship required to undertake such a work is staggering and even a lay person familiar with some of the material dealt with is going to have some eye-rolling moments.

But it is California. And Americans can't seem to get enough of "Taoism".

I still haven't listened to it or read the book. But I can tell by the length of the book, most of which is simply a translation of the text, that there is no way that this is rooted in real scholarship. Not that I have a problem with it being a purely theological work, I just think that many people are acting as it these claims are somehow more than theological formulations.

Offline Ortho_cat

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,392
Re: Christ the Eternal Tao
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2010, 06:07:03 PM »
Some of the less compelling stuff I've listened to on AFR. Seriously flawed. To imagine the degree of scholarship required to undertake such a work is staggering and even a lay person familiar with some of the material dealt with is going to have some eye-rolling moments.

But it is California. And Americans can't seem to get enough of "Taoism".



Care to expound a bit on why you think the work is 'seriously flawed'?

Offline samkim

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 735
Re: Christ the Eternal Tao
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2010, 07:10:44 PM »
As a Korean Orthodox Christian, I appreciated Fr. Damascene's attempt to use "Taoist" (didn't find anything particularly Daoist) concepts to explain Orthodoxy. Perhaps in the future a more scholarly book will be written. Matteo Ricci's Catholic appropriation of the Chinese classics are worth a look.
주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.

Offline samkim

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 735
Re: Christ the Eternal Tao
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2010, 07:12:34 PM »
Some of the less compelling stuff I've listened to on AFR. Seriously flawed. To imagine the degree of scholarship required to undertake such a work is staggering and even a lay person familiar with some of the material dealt with is going to have some eye-rolling moments.

But it is California. And Americans can't seem to get enough of "Taoism".



Care to expound a bit on why you think the work is 'seriously flawed'?

He interpolates.
주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.

Offline Iconodule

  • Uranopolitan
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,133
  • "My god is greater."
Re: Christ the Eternal Tao
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2010, 10:07:46 PM »
I agree that Fr. Damascene's characterization of "Taoism" doesn't have much relevance to Taoism as it actually exists. The division between "philosophical Taoism" and "religious Taoism," for example, is a myth cooked up by modern Confucians and Protestant sinologists in the West. And I think Fr. Damascene would admit that his work isn't really suitable in this light.

That said, his work is valuable (IMO) for taking a fresh look at Laozi that demonstrates how, like in all great philosophy, the message of Christ is hinted at in the Daodejing. I think it's a wonderful exercise in the Patristic practice of complementing Christian learning with pagan learning.
"A riddle or the cricket's cry
Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake

Offline Ortho_cat

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,392
Re: Christ the Eternal Tao
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2010, 01:38:28 AM »
That said, his work is valuable (IMO) for taking a fresh look at Laozi that demonstrates how, like in all great philosophy, the message of Christ is hinted at in the Daodejing. I think it's a wonderful exercise in the Patristic practice of complementing Christian learning with pagan learning.

Agree completely.

Offline samkim

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 735
Re: Christ the Eternal Tao
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2010, 01:01:52 PM »
I agree that Fr. Damascene's characterization of "Taoism" doesn't have much relevance to Taoism as it actually exists. The division between "philosophical Taoism" and "religious Taoism," for example, is a myth cooked up by modern Confucians and Protestant sinologists in the West.

I'm curious about who you mean by modern Confucians.
주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.

Offline Iconodule

  • Uranopolitan
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,133
  • "My god is greater."
Re: Christ the Eternal Tao
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2010, 04:37:41 PM »
I agree that Fr. Damascene's characterization of "Taoism" doesn't have much relevance to Taoism as it actually exists. The division between "philosophical Taoism" and "religious Taoism," for example, is a myth cooked up by modern Confucians and Protestant sinologists in the West.

I'm curious about who you mean by modern Confucians.

Feng Youlan, for example.
"A riddle or the cricket's cry
Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake

Offline Jetavan

  • Argumentum ad australopithecum
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,580
  • Barlaam and Josaphat
    • The Mystical Theology
Re: Christ the Eternal Tao
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2010, 06:03:07 PM »
I agree that Fr. Damascene's characterization of "Taoism" doesn't have much relevance to Taoism as it actually exists. The division between "philosophical Taoism" and "religious Taoism," for example, is a myth cooked up by modern Confucians and Protestant sinologists in the West.

I'm curious about who you mean by modern Confucians.

Feng Youlan, for example.
What about Tu Weiming?
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline Jetavan

  • Argumentum ad australopithecum
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,580
  • Barlaam and Josaphat
    • The Mystical Theology
Re: Christ the Eternal Tao
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2011, 02:24:16 PM »
Wouldn’t It Be Nice if Christians Became Taoists?
Hope for the Emerging Christian Church


The emerging church in the West – the church of spiritual seekers who seek to share in the journey of Jesus but not impose it on others -- is already Taoist in tone.  What remains is for participants in this new and emerging church to turn eastward, learning from Asian Christians and the cultural traditions they bring with them, and thus learning to gentle their enthusiasm with the humility of stardust.  What remains is for them to realize that one of the best ways to “proclaim the gospel” is not to proclaim at all, but rather to travel a path of gentleness, which is its own proclamation, its own good news.... 
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline Iconodule

  • Uranopolitan
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,133
  • "My god is greater."
Re: Christ the Eternal Tao
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2011, 05:32:17 PM »
Wouldn’t It Be Nice if Christians Became Taoists?
Hope for the Emerging Christian Church


The emerging church in the West – the church of spiritual seekers who seek to share in the journey of Jesus but not impose it on others -- is already Taoist in tone.  What remains is for participants in this new and emerging church to turn eastward, learning from Asian Christians and the cultural traditions they bring with them, and thus learning to gentle their enthusiasm with the humility of stardust.  What remains is for them to realize that one of the best ways to “proclaim the gospel” is not to proclaim at all, but rather to travel a path of gentleness, which is its own proclamation, its own good news.... 

What a load of ethnic-essentialist new age BS.
"A riddle or the cricket's cry
Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake

Offline jckstraw72

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,174
Re: Christ the Eternal Tao
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2011, 10:53:32 PM »
Matthew Gallatin, a philosophy professor, and a well-known Orthodox convert author (Thirsting for God in a Land of Shallow Wells) told me its one of the most profound books he's ever read. take that for what you will ...