Author Topic: some thing over here  (Read 1383 times)

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Offline NIKODIMOSETHIO

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some thing over here
« on: October 27, 2010, 08:49:27 AM »
we donot say, it is true that GOD exists
we donot say, we know that GOD exists
but we say, we believe that god exists

i need some comments about this statement


Offline Father Peter

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Re: some thing over here
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2010, 08:56:37 AM »
I would say your list is not true.

I would say...

It is true that God exists ... more true than anything else in my life.

It is true that I know that God exists ... more than I know anything else in my life.

It is true that I believe that God exists ... just as I believe that my wife and my children exist.

We have a personal experience of God. Our faith is not an intellectual affirmation, like I believe that the third planet of our solar system is the Earth. It is a living trust in a person who is known and who knows us. It is like saying I know that my father exists and loves me.

I know that it is true that God exists because I experience Him every day.

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Offline Asteriktos

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Re: some thing over here
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2010, 08:58:42 AM »
we donot say, it is true that GOD exists
we donot say, we know that GOD exists
but we say, we believe that god exists

i need some comments about this statement

This is accurate, you do not know that God exists, you only believe.
"you will abandon these carnal and grovelling doctrines, and learn to be more sublime" - St. Gregory the Theologian

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: some thing over here
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2010, 09:00:25 AM »
we donot say, it is true that GOD exists
we donot say, we know that GOD exists
but we say, we believe that god exists

i need some comments about this statement

This is accurate, you do not know that God exists, you only believe.
Define "know".
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Asteriktos

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Re: some thing over here
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2010, 10:26:35 AM »
Define "know".

If your perception of something matched reality with exactitude and certainty, then you could say "I know..." 
"you will abandon these carnal and grovelling doctrines, and learn to be more sublime" - St. Gregory the Theologian

Offline Heorhij

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Re: some thing over here
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2010, 10:37:22 AM »
Define "know".

If your perception of something matched reality with exactitude and certainty, then you could say "I know..." 

Define reality. ;)
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Offline Father Peter

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Re: some thing over here
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2010, 10:42:57 AM »
But that means we can know nothing and privileges a materialist view of the world.
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Offline Asteriktos

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Re: some thing over here
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2010, 10:53:09 AM »
Define reality. ;)

But that means we can know nothing and privileges a materialist view of the world.

Exactly!  ;D
"you will abandon these carnal and grovelling doctrines, and learn to be more sublime" - St. Gregory the Theologian

Offline Father Peter

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Re: some thing over here
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2010, 11:18:03 AM »
But that view is plainly falsified by the experience of all Orthodox Christians.

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Offline Dart

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Re: some thing over here
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2010, 11:58:18 AM »
I know that God exists only in so far as I know that I exist.

But this is only necessary for those that doubt their own existance. For those that accept themselves as reality then "I know God exists" is sufficient without qualifiers.

Personally, I agree with Asteriktos in that I am not sure Asteriktos is real.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 11:59:15 AM by Dart »

Offline Iconodule

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Re: some thing over here
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2010, 12:07:22 PM »
But that means we can know nothing and privileges a materialist view of the world.

I think it would undercut materialism, too, and eventually lead to nihilism.
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But it had not been in Tess's power - nor is it in anybody's power - to feel the whole truth of golden opinions while it is possible to profit by them. She - and how many more - might have ironically said to God with Saint Augustine, "Thou hast counselled a better course than thou hast permitted."
Thomas Hardy, Tess of the D'Urbervilles