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Author Topic: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism  (Read 107336 times) Average Rating: 0
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dattaswami
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« Reply #1170 on: December 03, 2010, 12:06:48 PM »

Speciality Of Lord Datta & His Best Devotee

Generally we do some service to the Lord and expect something good in return from the Lord. This is the norm of the general worldly business. The specialty of Lord Datta is that He announces His policy in the beginning itself. His policy is one-way traffic. You have to do service to Him but He will not do anything good in return. Thus the business completely disappears. At this stage itself majority of the devotees drop out. Some devotees come to Him prepared for doing the service without any good fruit in return. After some time He opens His second policy. This policy is two-way traffic but it is different from our two-way traffic.
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« Reply #1171 on: December 03, 2010, 12:07:17 PM »

The three point in the spiritual path

There are three points in the spiritual path. The first point is about your self. If you know that you are not the God and also that God is not in you, the first point is over. You are only on the support of God since you are a part and parcel of the creation and the whole creation is supported by God. Again here, the contact of the support also does not exist as in the case of a table supporting an object standing on it. The creation stands just by the will of God. The direct support of the creation is the will, which is a mode of awareness. In this way, you can say that the divine awareness is support of this universe.
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« Reply #1172 on: December 03, 2010, 12:07:48 PM »

Violation of justice in Pravrutti & Nivrutti

Eshanas are strong bonds with – Life, Children, Husbands or wives
And wealth, Gopikas were liberated – From all the Eshanas.
Hanuman also is example – For the total sacrifice to God.
He was prepared to sacrifice life – By opening heart with nails.
Dharma Raja could not sacrifice – The justice for the sake of Lord,
He did not tell the lie – Even if the Lord ordered to do so.
Arjuna fought with Krishna – To save Gaya, who surrendered to him.
He could not cross the justice of – Kings to protect the surrendered.
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« Reply #1173 on: December 03, 2010, 12:08:28 PM »

Why you are not able to recognize God in human form

You are unable to recognize such human forms of God due to your inherent and inevitable egoism and jealousy. Instead of the human incarnation, you can worship the best devotees also. In fact, the human incarnation is very rare and even if it is identified, it is very difficult to accept and worship it due to egoism and jealousy. The devotees are widely spread and easily available. To worship a devotee, egoism and jealousy will not hinder so much because the constant thought that the devotee is after all a human being like your self, will satisfy yourself. Moreover, if you worship the devotee, God is more pleased than His direct worship.
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« Reply #1174 on: December 03, 2010, 12:09:13 PM »

Pravrutti and Nivrutti

Veda Vyasa was very good in Pravrutti and Nivrutti both in theory and practice. But he could not over come the worldly bonds, when he entered the family life. He was attracted by the dancer from heaven and was in blind love for his son. He went up to Tapo Loka. The sage Shuka avoided the family life for the fear of the attraction of worldly bonds. Bhagavatam says that he did not come out of the womb of his mother for a long time fearing for the world. He went to the divine abode of the Lord. Gopikas were in the climax of Nivrutti and violated even Pravrutti for the sake of Nivrutti. They went to Goloka which is above the divine abode of God.
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« Reply #1175 on: December 03, 2010, 12:09:40 PM »

The only person who can throw away any quality completely is God

The Lord says in Gita clearly that any amount of control of the nature of the soul is useless in complete eradication of the nature of the soul, at least in some occasions and at least in mental plane (Nigrah Kim Karishyati?…Gita). The only person who can throw away any quality completely is God, because He is associated with the qualities and not constituted by the qualities. God is like a colourless person having a red shirt on His body. The soul is that very red shirt itself. Now the red shirt is mocking at the person for the red colour! Your criticism to any human incarnation like Krishna or Jesus is similar to this
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« Reply #1176 on: December 03, 2010, 12:10:05 PM »

God is loving every soul:

God is loving every soul and is helping every soul in this world. He never hates any soul. The punishment in the hell is also to reduce madness of materialism of the soul. Suppose, one son becomes mad, the father will take him to the doctor and admits him in the mental hospital where shock treatments are given. Can you say that the father is angry with the son? Similarly, the hell is for the last sort of trial to transform the soul. The madness is never cured and the son has to be retained in the hospital only forever.
Same is the concept of the permanent hell. These souls cannot be brought into this world because they will bring Chaos in this world.
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« Reply #1177 on: December 03, 2010, 12:10:32 PM »

Express your gratitude to God
Never bring present and future before God. Confine to the past always before God. Look back at your past life. Hundreds of incidents are there where you were helped by God. Even if you dispose some incidents through the incidental probability of success or through the efficiency of your efforts, certainly there are plenty of instances in which the help from God is clearly evident. At least remember those few incidents and express your gratefulness along praise to God for His kind help that was already done. The word Krutajnata means remembering the past help. Kruta means the past help done. Jna means identifying it by analysis.
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« Reply #1178 on: December 03, 2010, 12:11:15 PM »

Do not get discouraged

Do not bother that you are unable to practice the highest truth today itself. At least accept the truth in theory. That first step is sufficient. One day or the other, either in this life or in some future life (human life is assured for any one who tries constantly) you will succeed. If you accept theoretically, you have put your foot on the first step of right path. Journey and achievement of goal are inevitable. It is only a matter of time. But if you deny the truth even theoretically, you are in the wrong path. You want immediate fruit and so you want to lower the goal. You want to sleep at 8 PM and want to become IAS officer.
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« Reply #1179 on: December 03, 2010, 12:11:43 PM »

Fulfillment of devotion

When human beings who are extremely devoted to God, yearn for the Lord, He in all His compassion, comes down in human form to satisfy His devotees. In the human form alone, can the devotee serve the Lord, feed Him, live with Him, talk to Him and love Him fully.
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« Reply #1180 on: December 03, 2010, 12:14:35 PM »

I don't need man made meditation techniques to escape from my suffering!   Angry

This shows that you are not at all following my replies! I request you to have patience in analysing my posts. Where i told that mediation is the path!? Mediation is not the path, practical service to God is the path. Please ananlyse my divine knowledge.

In mediation you are simply closing your eyes and you get sleep, what is the use. God is not gain anything by your meditation. God will get pleased when you serve Him practically.....
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« Reply #1181 on: December 03, 2010, 12:24:51 PM »

You can ask if you are not understanding any portion of the divine knowledge....
Oh, there is definitely plenty that I don't understand.
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In the human form alone, can the devotee serve the Lord, feed Him, live with Him, talk to Him and love Him fully.
So, can angels not serve God?
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One has to put effort and become detached in the world and should get attached to God.
Wait a minute.  You also said...
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Like wise only your practical service to God alone prove your love...
In one case you talk about practicality; in another you mention detachment.  I'm starting to sense some inconsistency, here.
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« Reply #1182 on: December 03, 2010, 02:22:36 PM »

I don't need man made meditation techniques to escape from my suffering!   Angry

This shows that you are not at all following my replies! I request you to have patience in analysing my posts. Where i told that mediation is the path!? Mediation is not the path, practical service to God is the path. Please ananlyse my divine knowledge.

I'm not interested in following your replies any more than you are interested in what others have to say.

In mediation you are simply closing your eyes and you get sleep, what is the use. God is not gain anything by your meditation. God will get pleased when you serve Him practically.....

Really? Why does Benjamin Creme promote transcendental meditation as a way of seeing Maitreya, the Great Teacher (or Deceiver, depending on point of view)?

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don't even go there!


« Reply #1183 on: December 04, 2010, 12:07:06 AM »

Seriously, you guys, what is the point?  Every post from one of you leads to twenty or thirty from dattaspammiRoll Eyes

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« Reply #1184 on: December 04, 2010, 12:27:50 AM »

Seriously, you guys, what is the point?  Every post from one of you leads to twenty or thirty from dattaspammiRoll Eyes


She's right folks!
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« Reply #1185 on: December 04, 2010, 12:52:19 AM »

Seriously, you guys, what is the point?  Every post from one of you leads to twenty or thirty from dattaspammiRoll Eyes

I know... I guess I just thought I'd try to present a little of 'the other side of the story.' Speaking only for myself, it may be because I'm Sicilian and Irish- I find it difficult to let slide a bad argument; when someone says "You believe x-y-z" or "This group of people really teaches or really did such-and-such" and that's just not true, I don't like to let it go without trying to respond. It's probably pride... which isn't good, but what can I say, I have to work on that.  Sad

But then, if you teach a math class, for instance, and someone gets up there and says, "Teacher, it must be true that 2+2 can also equal 5, because that's what I want to believe," I'd probably toss an eraser in the air in sheer frustration. My parents taught me the value of facts. I'm hardly the best example of anything, I'm a sinner like anyone else. However, when someone makes claims about beliefs, or history, or something on that order, which are just plain silly,  if you do so in a careful way, you can refute them with logic and the real ideas. I don't know if my posts have always shown that... but I don't see how the OP can say he is doing anything but trying to mix oil and water. Although it may be interesting to read about many things- and I read quite a few of the Hindu books years ago- that doesn't mean that Hinduism and Christianity are the same. Chocolate cake and a chocolate Labrador are different things. They have one term in common, but that's all.
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don't even go there!


« Reply #1186 on: December 04, 2010, 01:09:40 AM »

But biro, we shouldn't allow dattaspammi's - uh - spammi - to affect our judgment of Hinduism, since he himself has said he is neither Hindu nor Christian.
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« Reply #1187 on: December 04, 2010, 01:17:51 AM »

But biro, we shouldn't allow dattaspammi's - uh - spammi - to affect our judgment of Hinduism, since he himself has said he is neither Hindu nor Christian.

That's interesting. He keeps making references to Hanuman... well, you're right, though; with the picture from his website, with his face imposed on all the systems of the world, he seems to have coined his own context. Pure syncretism.

This thread needs a kitten.



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« Reply #1188 on: December 04, 2010, 01:25:01 AM »

But biro, we shouldn't allow dattaspammi's - uh - spammi - to affect our judgment of Hinduism, since he himself has said he is neither Hindu nor Christian.

That's interesting. He keeps making references to Hanuman... well, you're right, though; with the picture from his website, with his face imposed on all the systems of the world, he seems to have coined his own context. Pure syncretism.

This thread needs a kitten.



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« Reply #1189 on: December 04, 2010, 02:29:15 AM »

Seriously, you guys, what is the point?  Every post from one of you leads to twenty or thirty from dattaspammi.
She's right folks!
Indeed she is.  In fact, I'll expound further and say that every 8-10 word post from us leads to twenty or thirty posts of several hundred words from the spam-meister.

But hey, let's see who tires of it first...
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« Reply #1190 on: December 04, 2010, 02:32:03 AM »

This thread needs a kitten.
I need a kitten.  But it's the Nativity Fast, so I'll have to wait a few more weeks.
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« Reply #1191 on: December 04, 2010, 10:58:50 AM »


In one case you talk about practicality; in another you mention detachment.  I'm starting to sense some inconsistency, here.

Detachment is practicality! Detachment is means simply fulfil your responsibility to your family without mental attachment. Serving God in human form is the practical aspect like serving your family. When you work for GOd's mission it is practical service...
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« Reply #1192 on: December 04, 2010, 11:00:10 AM »


Really? Why does Benjamin Creme promote transcendental meditation as a way of seeing Maitreya, the Great Teacher (or Deceiver, depending on point of view)?



Meditation is not the way!

Some people say that meditation is sitting with perfect silence without any process of thought. Such a contention is meaningless because it virtually amounts to a nice sleep only. These people further misinterpret that such a meditation is concentration on formless God (Nirakara). Gita says that one cannot concentrate on formless God (Avyakthahi Gatih). The meditation of formless God becomes true if one concentrate on the true knowledge of God. Veda says that true knowledge is the real form of the Lord (Satyam Jnanam Anantam Brahma). Knowledge is formless. Therefore the formless God means only the true divine knowledge about the Lord. This is the correct interpretation of Sankaras philosophy. The great ancient Vedic sages sat in the formless meditation and this statement means that they concentrated on the divine knowledge (Brahma Jnana), which was expressed as Upanishaths in their mutual discussions (Satsanga).

The actual meaning of the word Dhyanam is the process of functioning of intelligence (Dhee or Buddhi) and this pertains to the field of knowledge (Vijnanamaykosa). Some people interpret that meditation means concentration on the form of the Lord like the light blue colour, peacock feather on the head, flute in the hand etc., Instead of concentrating mentally upon such objects, one can see these things in a photo or see the objects directly kept on a table. If these things constitute the divinity there is no need of concentrating on these things. One can attain the divinity by applying light blue colour on his own body, by putting a peacock feather on the head and by catching a flute by hand. Such a divinity can be attained without any meditation. So meditation becomes meaningless in such a line. This is the reason why Sankara discarded the meditation of a form (Saguna Brahman). Ofcourse attraction by such things towards the Lord will help a person to develop the attachment on the Lord. One may be attracted to Lord Krishna by such things and then finally get attracted towards His divine knowledge as preached in Bhagavatgita.

Such things may be initial promoters but the final is only the divine knowledge, which will help any one in his effort (Sadhana) to please the Lord. The divine knowledge resulting in the realization will impart a tension free peace and tranquility to the mind. By such state one will attain perfect health of body and mind and thus the benefit is directly seen here itself.

Ex:- If one realizes that this gross body of the soul is only the external dramatic dress as said in Gita (Vaasamsi Jeernani), he will immediately realize that these family bonds are only the bonds in the drama. The soul forgets the bonds of the previous birth as an actor forgets the bonds of previous drama. If these bonds are real the soul should have remembered its relatives of the previous birth. Such a divine knowledge on memorization enters the nerves of a person and he will not have any tension about his family members. He does his duties without any trace of tension. This is the salvation while alive (Jeevanmukthi). Thus meditation means continuous remembering of the divine knowledge which yields the direct fruit here itself. Such a person gets a fruit in the upper world also. The only one Lord is the authority here and there also. Anybody blessed here will be blessed there also. If one is not blessed here he is not blessed in the upper world also. The grace of the Lord or the anger of the Lord is uniform here and there. One who is not blessed here cannot be blessed there. Thus the true knowledge blesses any person here and there. Meditation is continuous thinking of such knowledge and other interpretations are either useless or of little use.
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« Reply #1193 on: December 04, 2010, 11:04:29 AM »


Indeed she is.  In fact, I'll expound further and say that every 8-10 word post from us leads to twenty or thirty posts of several hundred words from the spam-meister.

But hey, let's see who tires of it first...

Spiritual knowledge is meant for the people who aspire for God, who want God’s grace, who have recognized God and find more value than the world and we talk for those people only. We do not talk about the people who have satisfied with the world. Let them be satisfied. For example, somebody is studying and he says that just pass mark is sufficient for me and let me enjoy. What we can do, if that is his attitude? If somebody says I will undergo all problems and I want to get first class, I want to get distinction. He will undergo lot of troubles and will get the result. Enjoyment of world is there and if that is your aim, nothing can be done. Those, who recognized God, the value of God, eternality of God and eternal fruit of the God, they will only be interested to know, what is the way to please the God, how to get the grace of God and only when such questions have started, we have started to preach the spiritual knowledge to them.

The fundamental and the basic stage in the spiritual knowledge is that people have recognized God and have given high value to God and want to know where is the God, what is the path, how to please the Him, how to get liberation from the world etc. We show the path only when such enquiries are made. Suppose you are satisfied with the world and experience of world itself is highest for you, the complete spiritual knowledge will not open at all! Suppose, you want to become a district collector and ask Me what is the way, then I will tell that you have to study IAS course (a course for obtaining a prestigious administrative post in India). You have to study many hours, many books etc.
If you have such aim, we will tell you the path.

If you say that I am not bothered about IAS and say that if I become a peon or an attender or a coolie, it is beautiful and wonderful for me and I enjoy the life, then there is no question of IAS post for the people of such attitude. The gate of the spiritual knowledge is closed for such people, who feel that world is wonderful, who feel that the worldly experience is wonderful etc. Certainly, for such people, the gate is closed. We started the preaching of spiritual knowledge for such people only, who think that these worldly pleasures are not eternal, they are momentary, they are illusory etc. Such spiritual knowledge will become irrelevant to other disinterested people.

The gate of spiritual knowledge is open only when we want God, liberation from the world, the path to please God etc. If one says that I do not want God and I am satisfied with the world, the gate of spiritual knowledge itself is closed. Therefore, there is no question of discussing about him. You want to reach a goal and you ask the path then only discussions start. You do not want the goal, you feel that wherever you stay is the highest for you and you are getting highest enjoyment etc., then the gate is closed. The spiritual knowledge becomes irrelevant for such people.
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« Reply #1194 on: December 04, 2010, 11:34:36 AM »


I'm sorry, but there are people in the world who love their parents, there wives and children, their friends and family NOT because they can get something in return, but simply for the sake of loving them.


Our point is the same thing. What is the point? Showing same love to God as we show our love to dear and near ones. For example when you show love to them, you are not praying by names or singing their glories! You practically serve them by giving food, money, cloth etc which are practical. You are not doing any theory like praying on them, singing on them etc! Directly you do all practical service to them that too without anybodies compulsion or request... This is inherent in us. The same thing should be extended to GOd also...

I absolutely agree! I think every person reading this would also agree with that statement. So much of what you say is merely affirming what we already accept. You're preaching to the choir so to speak.

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Your theory should become practical incase of God. You should practically love GOd without any expecation of anything in return.

Agreed!

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For this to happen, God has to be with us in human form.

This is where we disagree, because Jesus taught that whatsover we do to the least (the poor, the widows, the hungry, those in prison etc) we ARE doing to him.

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To a living God only we can do practical service like serving in His mission of divine knowledge propagation. To a living God only we can give money as our offering.

So we should give God money? Exactly what does God need with money? It's like in Star Trek 5 when Kirk asks, "what does God need with a starship?"

 I presume by "God" you mean, well you?!

Umm, I asked this earlier and received no response but what evidence do you have that you in fact are God? None of us have even heard you speak in person, only what you type. If you were preaching some revolutionary teaching as Jesus did, okay, pretty good claim. But you're not saying anything at all that hasn't been said hundreds of times before. Much of which simply appears to by paraphrases of writings from people like Paramahansa Yogananda. What you type is SO general and unspecific it could be read in literally hundreds of books from many dozens of authors like Yogananda or a number of others.

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Whom you give importance family or God in human form.... This happens only when your love on God is high comapred to other love...  Till then GOd will not test you...

Umm, actually Jesus told a story about how it was WRONG to give money to a religious organization/temple/people claiming some spiritual authority when the money was actually meant to be given to one's parents. (I think it's in Mark but maybe someone else can find the reference for me)



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The point is not about imaginable form or unimaginable form of God. The point is whether you can prove practically that God is highest for you or not?

Whom shall we be proving this to? Doesn't God already know our hearts?


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A voice from the sky came down to Abraham asking him that whether he can sacrifice his son for the sake of God. Here God is not in the visible form. Abraham immediately proved his devotion. Jesus asked the fishermen to leave everything and follow Him. They left everything and followed Jesus.
 Here, Abraham and fishermen proved their highest devotion for God.
In the case of Abraham God was in invisible form and unimaginable. In the case of fishermen God was in a visible human form. Therefore, the imaginable and unimaginable concepts of God are not important.

Wait, didn't you say we need a tangible God to serve? Then what are you doing quoting the story of Abraham where God is not at all tangible?


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Your imagination cannot transcend the dimensions of space to understand God, who is beyond space, being the creator of space.


I'd actually agree with that!

NP
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« Reply #1195 on: December 04, 2010, 11:40:51 AM »


I'm sorry, but there are people in the world who love their parents, there wives and children, their friends and family NOT because they can get something in return, but simply for the sake of loving them.


Our point is the same thing. What is the point? Showing same love to God as we show our love to dear and near ones. For example when you show love to them, you are not praying by names or singing their glories! You practically serve them by giving food, money, cloth etc which are practical. You are not doing any theory like praying on them, singing on them etc! Directly you do all practical service to them that too without anybodies compulsion or request... This is inherent in us. The same thing should be extended to GOd also...

I absolutely agree! I think every person reading this would also agree with that statement. So much of what you say is merely affirming what we already accept. You're preaching to the choir so to speak.

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Your theory should become practical incase of God. You should practically love GOd without any expecation of anything in return.

Agreed!

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For this to happen, God has to be with us in human form.

This is where we disagree, because Jesus taught that whatsover we do to the least (the poor, the widows, the hungry, those in prison etc) we ARE doing to him.

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To a living God only we can do practical service like serving in His mission of divine knowledge propagation. To a living God only we can give money as our offering.

So we should give God money? Exactly what does God need with money? It's like in Star Trek 5 when Kirk asks, "what does God need with a starship?"

 I presume by "God" you mean, well you?!

Umm, I asked this earlier and received no response but what evidence do you have that you in fact are God? None of us have even heard you speak in person, only what you type. If you were preaching some revolutionary teaching as Jesus did, okay, pretty good claim. But you're not saying anything at all that hasn't been said hundreds of times before. Much of which simply appears to by paraphrases of writings from people like Paramahansa Yogananda. What you type is SO general and unspecific it could be read in literally hundreds of books from many dozens of authors like Yogananda or a number of others.

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Whom you give importance family or God in human form.... This happens only when your love on God is high comapred to other love...  Till then GOd will not test you...

Umm, actually Jesus told a story about how it was WRONG to give money to a religious organization/temple/people claiming some spiritual authority when the money was actually meant to be given to one's parents. (I think it's in Mark but maybe someone else can find the reference for me)



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The point is not about imaginable form or unimaginable form of God. The point is whether you can prove practically that God is highest for you or not?

Whom shall we be proving this to? Doesn't God already know our hearts?


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A voice from the sky came down to Abraham asking him that whether he can sacrifice his son for the sake of God. Here God is not in the visible form. Abraham immediately proved his devotion. Jesus asked the fishermen to leave everything and follow Him. They left everything and followed Jesus.
 Here, Abraham and fishermen proved their highest devotion for God.
In the case of Abraham God was in invisible form and unimaginable. In the case of fishermen God was in a visible human form. Therefore, the imaginable and unimaginable concepts of God are not important.

Wait, didn't you say we need a tangible God to serve? Then what are you doing quoting the story of Abraham where God is not at all tangible?


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Your imagination cannot transcend the dimensions of space to understand God, who is beyond space, being the creator of space.


I'd actually agree with that!

NP

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« Reply #1196 on: December 04, 2010, 12:53:24 PM »


...it just goes on and on my friend...
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« Reply #1197 on: December 04, 2010, 01:03:11 PM »

Or as my gramma used to say,"Good gravy Marie, ain't you kids done squabblin' yet?" Cheesy
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« Reply #1198 on: December 04, 2010, 01:09:15 PM »

Or as my gramma used to say,"Good gravy Marie, ain't you kids done squabblin' yet?" Cheesy

My kids would annoy us on long car trips by singing the "Song that never ends.....it goes on and on and on..." At least "99 bottles of beer on the wall "does come to an end eventually!
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« Reply #1199 on: December 04, 2010, 01:13:43 PM »

All joking aside, Ole' Salt Water is trying to convince us to send him money, am I correct?
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« Reply #1200 on: December 04, 2010, 01:18:03 PM »

No way - if Oral Roberts couldn't get my money after seeing a 700-foot-tall Jesus, dattaspammi's not gonna get it from a lame Internet thread! Cheesy
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« Reply #1201 on: December 04, 2010, 04:42:57 PM »

I see Datta has moved on to ranting about monasticism now.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #1202 on: December 04, 2010, 11:09:54 PM »

Or as my gramma used to say,"Good gravy Marie, ain't you kids done squabblin' yet?" Cheesy

My kids would annoy us on long car trips by singing the "Song that never ends.....it goes on and on and on..." At least "99 bottles of beer on the wall "does come to an end eventually!
And, "99 bottles of Beer on the Wall" is infinitely more interesting.
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« Reply #1203 on: December 04, 2010, 11:36:35 PM »

I see Datta has moved on to ranting about monasticism now.  Roll Eyes

I wish he would look into some books about the Desert Fathers. Now, that's food for thought.   angel
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« Reply #1204 on: December 05, 2010, 12:14:35 AM »



 I presume by "God" you mean, well you?!

Umm, I asked this earlier and received no response but what evidence do you have that you in fact are God? None of us have even heard you speak in person, only what you type. If you were preaching some revolutionary teaching as Jesus did, okay, pretty good claim. But you're not saying anything at all that hasn't been said hundreds of times before. Much of which simply appears to by paraphrases of writings from people like Paramahansa Yogananda. What you type is SO general and unspecific it could be read in literally hundreds of books from many dozens of authors like Yogananda or a number of others.


You have to read each and every reply of me and analyse it properly. Then only you will get a full picture of divine knowledge. Mere preachers will simply repeat whatever they read in the scriptures of previous human incarnations. But God in human form differs. He preaches wonderful divine knowledge which do not appear in previous scriptures.

For example, recognition of Contemproary Human incarnation is a very power ful divine knowledge and it a new direction in the knowledge. People do not understand this concept easily. If you consider Jesus and HIS disciples, Jesus was the human incarnation to those people. For the disciples of time, the contemproary Human incarnation was Jesus. Like wise today for the pople of this generation, current human incarnation is the authority. This concept you will never find in any book. Contemproary human incarnation alone can receive your practical sacrifice.


God do not need your money or any help. By saying so, you want to escape practical service to God. You are so tricky! When comes to your family you do all practical service and when comes to God you do not want to do the practical service at the same time you only do theoretical service (some prayers) and want salvation also freely! HOw it is justifiable?


You are treating God as an outsider! Money is the basis of all your bonds. If you do not posses money then your family members will leave you!
Thus for all your attachment, the root cause is money. If you sacrifice part of your money to God in human forms mission then you are practically sacrificing your bond with money which is your bond with family and you are pratically proving your love to God.

You may millions of times argue or proclaim that Jesus is very very dear to you. But your love is not proved, if it is tested pratically. Suppose if Jesus comes to you in human form and ask you to give all your money or part of money to His mission of divine knowledge propagation, will you do it? You will think 1000 of questions. Why God need money will be your first question? Second question will even if i give money what Jesus is going to do with it? Will Jesus properly use it? All such question will come to your mind. This is due to your attachment to money and lower attachment to Jesus.


Any body can accept Jesus as God it is very simple since Jesus is not with us in human form. It is very very simple. Doing theoretical worship is further simple, very very simple. But doing practical service to contemporary human incarnation comes, then you all will run away, then you will ask questions like Why God need money? etc etc. This all shows your attachment to money and hence family and your no attachment to God.

Jesus said that a camel may pass through the eye of a needle but a rich man could never reach God. For this statemet it appears as if all rich people are permanently condemned. But Jesus always showed path to the people who repented. Therefore, that statement of His applies only to the rich people who did not repent. If you close the doors for all rich people permanently, irrespective of their repentance, what work can be done by the devotees who only sacrifice work?

A person who only sacrifices work is either a poor householder or a sanyasin. Both cannot do any divine service without money [money is required for activities  including divine service like the propagation of divine knowledge]. The situation will be like that of two sanyasins rubbing their shoulders against each other. What will be the result? Only some ash applied to their bodies will fall down! Therefore, there is always a way for the repentant soul even on his deathbed. Thus, even Vikarma has a solution.

The Gita emphasizes the sacrifice of the fruit of work (money) by giving it the highest place (Dhyanat Karma Phala Tyagah) by stating that mechanical practice of tradition without analysis (Abhyasa), knowledge (Jnana), theoretical devotion (Dhyana) and sacrifice of fruit of work (karma Phala Tyaga) are in the increasing order of importance. Again here you must note that the sacrifice of the fruit of work also stands for the sacrifice of work. Between these two terms (karma sanyasa and karma phala tyaga) any one can be used to mean both.

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« Reply #1205 on: December 05, 2010, 12:25:55 AM »

t how it was WRONG to give money to a religious organization/temple/people claiming some spiritual authority when the money was actually meant to be given to one's parents. (I think it's in Mark but maybe someone else can find the reference for me)


There are people they try to avoid responsiblity to their family by saying that I have donated to so and so spiritual organisation and i do not have any money now to give to my parents. Now God will take care of them! After saying so they leave their responsiblity and use the money they posses (actually have not donated any penny to any body), for their selfish pleasure. Such people will enter Hell after death for intensive punishment there to reduce their selfishness and increase their responsiblity to parents.

Donating money should be done with care. If you donate to underserving then will not get punished. God in human form is the most deserving for receival of your donation. You have to fix Him from His divine knoweldge.

If you find such God in human form of your generation, leaving everything for HIm is the Justice. If you leave your parents for any other selfish pleasure then it is the injustice and you will get punished. If you leave family for God in human form mission and closely associate with Him and work for propagation of His divine knowlege, you are become dear and near to God since you have proved your love and attachment to Him over anybody and anything in the world. It looks injustice to leave parents for God in human form, but it is Justice in the eyes of God.


Luke—14:26 to 27

“If any one comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple’’.



There are two paths Pravrutti and Nivrutti.

In Pravrutti you should take care of your parents and live a good life doing social service by loving others as your self.

In Nivrutti GOd in human form comes and you have to give maximum importance to Him over anything and every body in this world, since He is the God Himself. You have to fix prior to this the Human incarnation by analysing the divine knoweldge preached by Him and discussing with extensively and clarifying all your doubts from Him.

Pravrutti is rejection of unjust bonds before justified bonds. If you reject the love of a prostitute before the love of your wife, it is rejection of injustice and voting for justice. Hence, in Pravrutti, justice is basis and is the very essence. When you come to Nivrutti (identifying the present human form of God and selfless service to Him), you are rejecting wife before God. This appears to be injustice but on analysis, you can find that this is your vote for highest justice as you have voted for higher justice in the above case of Pravrutti.

 Hence, the basis of justice continues in Nivrutti also if you analyze deeply.
A person loving a prostitute and rejecting wife neither has the perfect knowledge of wife nor has the perfect knowledge of the prostitute. Only in the ignorance of both, he says that his love to prostitute is justice and his love to wife is injustice. Similarly, when you do not have the knowledge of God and world, then only, you will feel that the worldly bonds are more justified than bond with God. This is only due to your ignorance of both God and world as in the above case.
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« Reply #1206 on: December 05, 2010, 12:31:07 AM »


Whom shall we be proving this to? Doesn't God already know our hearts?



Very good! God knows everybodies heart. He knows everything. He want to show your level to your self, and then correct yourself in the right path. You will claim millions of times that Jesus is very dear and near to you by prayers. It is your theoretical proclamation. But if JESUS comes to you in human form and test you in pratical aspect then your real colour will come out. You will run away from Jesus because the pratical aspect of service to Jesus will trouble you since it is a loss to you, hence you will run away from Jesus. It is every easily to assume mentally some thing, like I love Jesus, Jesus is very very dear to me etc. This is theory. Practicaly is proved only when Jesus is with you in Human form. Then your real faith and your real love to jesus will be tested for your own benefit, so that you will climb to the next step in spiritual sacrifice and love to Jesus.

If you are able to sacrifice anything and anybody for the sake of God, you need not fear for test. If you studied every chapter in text book, you need not fear for the examination because you can answer any question from any chapter. If you are fearing for test, it means that you are weak in a particular chapter. God is omniscient and knows your weakness. Hence, God gives only the question from that chapter in which you are weak. In worldly studies, the examiner is not omniscient and therefore by chance the examiner may not touch the chapter in which you are weak. But, the case of God is quite different since He is omniscient. He cannot declare you that you are the master of all the text book, unless you are thorough in every chapter. Do not misunderstand God as a cruel examiner.

 God is truth and hence all the activities of God are based on truth only. If you are weak in a chapter and if you are declared as the master of the text book, is it a true declaration? Therefore, God will not test you unless you are able to sacrifice everything and everybody for His sake. But, meanwhile you think that you can prove your highest devotion even though you have not reached that stage. Hence, to make you realize the truth of your false assumption, God conducts the test and proves your failure. In such test, He will not publicize because His aim is not to insult you in the public. His aim is only to make you realize your incompleteness in your achievement, so that you will try to reach the perfection after knowing the truth. If you are not tested, you will continue in your false impression and sit quite without any further effort.


If you have reached the perfection in sacrifice, God will conduct the test and publicize the result so that the other devotees will take your success as an example.
If the successful case is not publicized, then also there is a danger because the devotees may sit quite thinking that such practical achievement is impossible for anybody. As long as you are trying for perfection, God will not touch you with the test. Once you stop in your effort, God will test you and test may be either for your sake or for the sake of public.

You may say that God already knows whether you are a successful case or a case of failure in the test and hence there is no need of test from God. The test is not required for God. The test is required for the souls. If you are a case of failure, you must know that, so that you will be aware of your actual position in the spiritual journey. You may be thinking high of yourself and the test will reveal the truth so that you will put the effort from the step on which you are actually standing. If you are a case of success, then also the test is to be conducted for the sake of others to see and take you as an example. Therefore, the test is required in both the cases. The case of failure is tested for the sake of the tested soul and such test is not for the public. The case of success is tested for the sake of public. God will not test the case which is not at all involved in the spiritual journey. When you have not joined the institution for study, where is the point of conducting test?
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« Reply #1207 on: December 05, 2010, 12:53:26 AM »

Quote
...God in human form differs. He preaches wonderful divine knowledge which do not appear in previous scriptures.
Salt Water, all you do is quote frm the Gita and the Vedas, and occasionally from the New Testament. Why do you quote from previous scriptures and then say that you don't? You are terrible at forming even basic thoughts. Christ put to shame even the most learned of His day with words of simplicity. You can never claim to be equal with our Christ. You are an imposter Salt Water.
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« Reply #1208 on: December 05, 2010, 02:36:05 AM »

I'll be glad to give money to God.  THE God.  Not you, dattaspammi.  Sorry.
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« Reply #1209 on: December 05, 2010, 02:41:44 AM »

Quote
...God in human form differs. He preaches wonderful divine knowledge which do not appear in previous scriptures.
Salt Water, all you do is quote frm the Gita and the Vedas, and occasionally from the New Testament. Why do you quote from previous scriptures and then say that you don't? You are terrible at forming even basic thoughts. Christ put to shame even the most learned of His day with words of simplicity. You can never claim to be equal with our Christ. You are an imposter Salt Water.

There are certain scholars who will get satisfied by only quoting scripture. All the scriputes are from God alone. He is the author all the scriptures and there fore they should not contradict. Contradiction is due to mis interpretation. THE correct interpretation of scriptures will remove the contradition, and for doing this serious job GOD comes down in human form. Only God can give the correct interpretation of scriptures since He only gave the knoweldge previously when He came in various human forms. Hence the same author comes in human form to give the correct interpretation of already given scriptures.

In addition, God in human form introduces wonderful divine knoweldge which cannot be find in previous scriptures.

 Following are few:


The concept of contemproary human incarnation is such concept.

God is impartial and comes down in human form in every human generation to preach and uplift the human souls....

God is unimaginable, unknowable and God alone knows about Himself hence God alone can preach about Himself- This another concept.

Human incarnation is a combination of Son of God ( most devoted servant of God) + God.---New concept

Human incarnation is the correct place of God, Human incarnation is God Himself because GOd is present in Him all the time when He is alive in this world.......

God is not in the creation, creation is only His dream, God is not in all, or all world is not pervaded by God, God is only present in Contemproary Human incarnation, and The proof of presence of God in Him is the wonderful divine knowledge. God enters the creation in the form of 'Human incarnation'.

God is pleased most when contemproary Human incarnation is served without expecting anything in return.

Meditation is not the path, working and serving in the mission of Human incarnation without any expectation is the path....

God is invisible because God is the reality and the creation is relative reality.

Practical service only can please God......(people are thinking theoretical service pleases God)

One can serve only a visible God practically- Hence Human incarnation appears to those who love Him.

Pleasing of God is the main aim of human life.....



Salvation means cutting the bonds with everything and everybody other than God. Kaivalyam means formation of the single highest bond with God. Both salvation and kaivalyam are essential.

Divine knowledge is the identity mark of God in human form.....


Different between Pravrutti (Path of Justice, pleasing family and soceity) and Nivrutti (Path of liberation by loving service to God in human form without any expectation)
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« Reply #1210 on: December 05, 2010, 02:47:40 AM »

I'll be glad to give money to God.  THE God.  Not you, dattaspammi.  Sorry.

It is very very easy to make such statments, because you do not believe in God coming in human form, hence as per you God cannot be seen, in such case you can escape giving money to God. Also as per you, Jesus will come only at the end of the world! in such case you very well know that you will not alive in this world and hence you will not posses any money also, in that case you need not give money to Jesus even if He appear at the end of the world! How tricky you are?

Yes, there will be tremebdous loss to you if you believe in contemproary human incarnation, because He is alive in Human form here in front of you. In such case if you are a real devotee, then you will give money to His mission, which is really a loss to you!

God need not pay any heed to the foolish rigid behaviour of some human beings. Infact they want to pray to the formless God or God in the form of a statue, only for the sake of their selfish convenience.
You can offer food to the formless God or a statue and then you can eat the entire food. You are satisfied as if you have given meals to God and at the same time you have not even a grain of rice. There are many inconvenient losses and troubles with the human form of God.

 But the real devotees are not worried about such loss and are infact happy to lose anything if God can enjoy by that. They feel happy when God eats the offered food. The mother visits her son and gives him some cash so that he may enjoy. When the son is happy with that, she derives infinite happiness and does not feel it as a loss or trouble. The mother will stay with her son and serve him day and night if necessary and feels very happy about it. Similarly, these real devotees feel happy to serve the Lord and they are happy about the loss incurred in it.
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« Reply #1211 on: December 05, 2010, 02:51:51 AM »

I'll be glad to give money to God.  THE God.  Not you, dattaspammi.  Sorry.

The Lord came in human form as Krishna ( a previous human incarnation) only for the sake of the Gopikas(devotees) and not for others. Only the Gopikas could recognize Him and they served the Lord by offering butter. They felt happy in this sacrifice. They did not feel any loss in this sacrifice. Krishna was not their child. But they loved Him more than their children. They did not give butter even to their own children and offered it to the Lord. Their love for God crossed even their love for their children.

When such real love exists, God comes in human form and reveals His identity to you. Your love must be real and must be practically proved by the sacrifice of work (Karma Sanyasa)(woking for GOd in human form mission) and the sacrifice of the fruit of work(money) (Karma Phala Tyaga) as emphasized in the Gita.

Sacrifice of words, mind and intelligence, which are freely supplied to you by God is like offering drinking water to the guest, which was freely supplied by the municipality.





But sacrifice of work and fruit of work are like offering meals to the guest and it is the sacrifice of your hard-earned money.
Ofcourse the meals must be associated with drinking water also and at the same time, mere drinking water is almost nothing.

Sacrifice, which alone is the complete proof of your real love, becomes complete, when you sacrifice mind, words, intelligence, work and fruit of work. Sacrifice of words is prayer, sacrifice of mind is meditation and sacrifice of intelligence is spiritual discussion. Therefore, simply doing meditation is the sacrifice of the mind, which is supplied freely by God. Sacrifice of anything that is hard earned by your work, is the real main sacrifice.


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« Reply #1212 on: December 05, 2010, 02:55:23 AM »


Wait, didn't you say we need a tangible God to serve? Then what are you doing quoting the story of Abraham where God is not at all tangible?



Human incarnation is the only medium through which God comes in direct contact with the human beings. Salvation is given only after testing the reality of the devotion and testing can be done through human incarnation only.
Ofcourse in the case of Abraham, testing was done by a voice, which came from the sky. So, that is also possible. The most convenient form is the human incarnation. The advantage with the human incarnation is that you can receive the spiritual knowledge and can clear all your spiritual doubts.

 But, Abraham could not clear his doubts through the invisible voice which came from Heaven. Moreover, through human incarnation, you can prove your sacrifice and can do practical service to Him. Spiritual guidance to you is possible only through Human Incarnation. Without guidance, there cannot be salvation. One will not get salvation unless proper guidance is there,. Therefore, the human incarnation is the best.


Moreover, if you do not recognize the human incarnation, it is only due to egoism and jealousy towards the human form and one cannot get salvation as long as the egoism and jealousy exist. Salvation means one should get ride of egoism and jealousy also. One cannot accept the human incarnation as long as jealousy and egoism exist. So, it is linked that way also.

In the time of Jesus, several people believed in God. But, they did not accept Jesus because He was in the human form. It was due to the same egoism and jealousy. Hence, one cannot get salvation unless egoism and jealousy are removed. The priests at the time of Jesus, who got Jesus crucified, were also believers in God. However, they did not get salvation. They punished Jesus. Therefore, salvation is possible only through human incarnation. Human incarnation is the form meant for human beings and the only force, which restricts the human beings not to recognize the human form of the God, is only the egoism and jealousy.

Removal of jealosy and ego towards any human form should be practiced because God can come in any human form. Sometimes, God enters any human being for some purpose. Therefore, it is better if you remove egoism and jealousy towards every human form and it is the safest method. Once, you have jealousy towards ordinary human beings also, it will definetly reflect in your devotion for human incarnation. Even though you have recognized God in human form, because the basic jealousy towards the human form is not removed, it will hinder your devotion towards the human form of the God. Therefore, eradicate egoism and jealousy.

 People will say that it is very difficult to get rid of jealousy and egoism. Not everybody is getting salvation. Only very few get salvation. Only one in millions gets salvation. Jesus says that the path towards Him is narrow and full of thorns. It is always rare and is always difficult. Diamonds are rare. It is very difficult to get diamonds. Is it not? So, this cannot be a point. It is due to the defect of human being that he is not able to control jealousy and egoism. God cannot create a law satisfying the defects of the human beings. Can we reduce the pass mark since majority fails in the examnation? Majority get only 20 marks but the stipulated pass mark is 40. Can we make pass mark as 20 since everybody otherwise fails? No. Same is the case in salvation also. You should raise your level by yourself by conquering jealousy and egoism. You should not lower or degrade the pass mark.
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« Reply #1213 on: December 05, 2010, 03:10:26 AM »

I'll be glad to give money to God.  THE God.  Not you, dattaspammi.  Sorry.


The practical sacrifice for the sake of God to prove that God is highest is important here to get the permanent grace of God. Kamsa heard the voice of unimaginable God from the sky about the danger from the eighth child of his sister. Even though it is the voice of unimaginable God, he tried to oppose God by killing all her children. If he had faith in the unimaginable God, he should have killed his own devilish nature and should have surrendered to God for protection.

Krishna was the unimaginable God in visible human form. Even though it is the form of ordinary human being, Gopikas sacrificed everything and everybody for Him and surrendered to God completely. Therefore, the point is not about the form of God.

The point is about your attitude towards your selfishness and your sacrifice to God. The essence of your entire spiritual effort is to eradicate your selfishness and develop sacrifice for the sake of God. If this attitude is achieved, there is no need of worshipping God. What is the use of worship as long as your attitude is centered on your selfishness either for Iham or Param (for this world or afterworld)?

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« Reply #1214 on: December 05, 2010, 03:12:19 AM »

I'll be glad to give money to God.  THE God.  Not you, dattaspammi.  Sorry.

Practical Sacrifice to God in human form cleans our selfishness

 Even the salvation and kivalyam (Salvation means cutting the bonds with everything and everybody other than God. Kaivalyam means formation of the single highest bond with God. Both salvation and kaivalyam are essential) become useless, if you aspire them for the sake of your becoming God. You should aspire these two only to serve God and then only it is called as Nivrutti. Shankara included both Iham and Param (for this world or afterworld) in Pravrutti only (Ihamutra phala viragah). He included even the salvation in Pravrutti only, if it is towards selfishness, and discarded even such salvation (Namokshasyaakaankshaa). Even the Kivalyam is for the service of God only and not for selfish enjoyment according to Shankara (Eswaraanugrahaadeva..). Therefore, selfishness limited to yourself and your family members is the only dirt that can pollute anything.

Sacrifice is the detergent that can clean this dirt. But, in the initial stage selfishness cannot be avoided and it is precipitated in the soul from millions of births. Therefore, in the first stage this selfishness of the souls is exploited to create the basic interest in God. Hence, Veda introduced the methods of worship (Yajnas) linking to this selfishness by introducing the fruits to the worship related to Iham like conquering enemies, achieving kingdom etc. The fruits related to Param were also in the same line like enjoying the pleasures in heaven. All this is the first phase called as karmakanda.

But, in due course, Veda slowly leads the human beings towards realization of spiritual knowledge giving more details about God so that the soul can slowly enter Nivrutti. This is the second phase called as Jnanakanda. The rituals in karmakanda are called as sacrifice (yajna) but the word sacrifice there is not related to its actual meaning. The word sacrifice is applied in its real meaning only in Jnanakanda, where you are preached about the sacrifice to be done for the sake of God. This sacrifice is based on the value given to God by you. Therefore, the important point is not to search for the actual form of God, but to develop the sacrifice for the sake of God.

 The search for God does not give you anything. The sacrifice for God brings the full grace from God. The search for God is theoretical, where as the sacrifice for God is practical. You have to learn sacrifice through a training given in the world itself before you prove it before God. Therefore, the first step to learn this sacrifice is to develop practical sacrifice by helping the deserving co-human beings, who should be devotees of God. Leave the worship of God since it is useless as long as you center it on your selfishness.

Try to learn sacrifice by helping the deserving devotees and once you are perfectly trained in this sacrifice, God will come to you in human form to conduct a test on you so that you will stand as example for other devotees. Therefore, you need not search for God. God Himself will search for you and meet you, once you are fully trained in the sacrifice by eradicating your selfishness.
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