Author Topic: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism  (Read 115881 times)

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Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Dear Dattaswami,

Please stop your "spiritual" prosyletizing on this forum. Our Lord Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. (St. John 14:6) Christ is not a way. He is not a divine manifestation. He is not an enlightened guru or god. He is not merely one prophet amongst many others. Jesus Christ is Lord the Universe, the Second Person of the triune Godhead- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, One God!

You are disrespecting this forum with your unOrthodox views. Perhaps you are sincere, and I will assume that you are. But if you continue these types of posts, then you are violating the spiritual welfare and Christian intentions of this website. If indeed you mean well, then you will promote your heterodox ideas on your own website, not here.

Thank you and peace to you.


Selam
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 10:52:19 PM by Gebre Menfes Kidus »
"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+

Offline theistgal

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LOL - glad you showed up, Alfred, I was beginning to think that was you! :D
"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)

Offline biro

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On the contrary- Jesus is proof that God loves to help the undeserving.  :)
He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will have no end.

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And if I seem a little strange, well, that's because I am

Offline GabrieltheCelt

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dattaswami,

 Thanks for sharing this with us, but your intentions are unclear.  Are you wanting to introduce us to the Sanatan Dharma or maybe enter into a dialogue about our similarities/differences?  Respectfully, Lord Krishna, Sandeepani, Subhadra, Yamadharma Raja are all alien to most, if not all, of us here.  
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Offline Alfred Persson

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LOL - glad you showed up, Alfred, I was beginning to think that was you! :D

Is it fair the homeless can pick out shopping carts whose wheels don't wobble, every time, and I can't find one when I grocery shop?

Is that fair?

I believe the post is a prank, incoherent on purpose.

He is making fun of us...

People who do that, can also look through a key hole with both eyes, their brains are THAT big.

If wrong, I apologize...but its still incoherent, there is no addressing it.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 10:59:55 PM by Alfred Persson »
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. (Rom 1:18-19 NKJ)

Offline biro

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Mr. Antony was (and perhaps still is) a Master's student, and an entrepreneur. I wonder why he doesn't want to take more time for direct engagement in real discussion. The way he's using now certainly isn't of any effect. He could just as well post a PDF of a book.

 ???
He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will have no end.

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Offline bogdan

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By praying to remove difficulties you are disturbing God

Generally, people pray God to remove their difficulties. They do not know that by doing so, God has to interfere in His own cycle of administration. By doing so, God has to insult the deity of justice and this deity was appointed by God Himself to run the administration without any partiality. Having ordered so, God Himself will not show partiality on anybody under any circumstances. God will not contradict His own policy. If any administrator in this world contradicts his own policy, he is certified as a mad fellow certainly. Of course, if a particular soul is in the climax of devotion to God, passing all the acid tests of Datta, God will over rule His own policy as in the case of Markandeya. In fact, God even killed the deity of justice (Yamadharma Raja) in such special case.

Without analyzing its own status in the devotion, every soul prays God to violate the rule of justice and insult the deity of justice. Even though such insult is not mentioned directly in the prayer, the prayer means the same indirectly. Lord Krishna gave life to the dead son of Sandeepani and this was extreme case since the dead body was also destroyed long back.

 Sandeepani was such a deserving person. Quoting this, Subhadra, the sister of Lord Krishna, prayed the Lord to give life to her dead son and the dead body was immediately available. But Lord did not give life to the dead body. Subhadra did not analyze the difference in the deservingness between her and Sandeepani. She thought that she deserves more than even Sandeepani, since she was the sister of Lord.


We have no Lord but Jesus Christ. There is no God but the Holy Trinity.


Offline dattaswami

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Mr. Antony was (and perhaps still is) a Master's student, and an entrepreneur. I wonder why he doesn't want to take more time for direct engagement in real discussion. The way he's using now certainly isn't of any effect. He could just as well post a PDF of a book.

 ???

But so far you have not commented on the content or theme of the post.


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Offline theistgal

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The point is you're not asking us anything, just throwing a lot of words at us. 

Ask a question if you want a discussion.
"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)

Offline theistgal

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You don't think it's possible for a husband to love his wife unselfishly?
"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)

Offline Irish Hermit

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The crucifixion of other two persons in the same time was based on their sins. Therefore, they cannot utter this statement because their lives were based on their deeds and not on the plan of God’s will. In the case of these two ordinary human beings, the proper statement should be “Let the Law take its own course”. 


Dear Brothers and Sisters, do not be misled by the rather superficial teachings of this "Swami."  His thoughts are far from those of Jesus Christ whom we worship as God.  It is to Him and His enlightened Saints that we look for teaching and guidance and not to a 21 year old American at Stamford University majoring in entrepreneurship!! 

The compassion of God is infinite and Saint Isaac the Syrian goes so far as to say that it outweighs His justice and the Law.


"Do not call God just, for His justice is not manifest in the
things concerning you. And if David calls Him just and upright, His
Son revealed to us that He is good and kind. 'He is good', He
says 'to the evil and to the impious.' How can you call God just
when you come across the Scriptural passage on the wage given to the
workers? How can a man call God just when he comes across the
passage on the prodigal son who wasted his wealth with riotous
living, how for the compunction alone which he showed, the father
ran and fell upon his neck and gave him authority over all his
wealth? Where, then, is God's justice, for while we are sinners
Christ died for us!"

and

"Among all God's actions there is none that is not entirely a
matter of mercy, love and compassion: this constitutes the beginning
and end of His dealings with us. ...God's mercifulness is far more
extensive than we can conceive."

and

"Just as a grain of sand will not balance in the scales against a
great weight of gold, such too is the case with God's justice when
it is weighed against His compassion. When compared with God's mind,
the sins of all flesh are like a grain of sand thrown in the sea.
Just as an abundantly flowing fountain is not blocked by a handful
of dust, so the Maker's mercy is not overcome by the wickedness of
those whom He has created."

and

"Mercy and just judgment existing in a single soul
is like a man worshipping God and idols in the same house.
Mercy is opposed to just judgment.
Just judgment is the equality of the balanced scale.
For it gives to each as is meet,
and does not incline to one side
or show partiality in recompense.
But mercy is pity aroused by Grace
and inclines a man compassionately to all;
and just as it does not requite the man who deserves harsh treatment,
it fills him to overflowing,
the man who deserves what is good.
And if mercy is on the side of righteousness,
then just judgment inclines towards evil;
and just as grass and fire cannot abide in the same house,
so neither do just judgment and mercy abide in the same soul.
Just as a grain of sand cannot counterbalance a large quantity of gold,
so God's necessary justice cannot, in like manner,
counterbalance His mercy."

- St. Isaac the Syrian


Offline dattaswami

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On the contrary- Jesus is proof that God loves to help the undeserving.  :)

It is true only when you love Jesus PRACTICALLY and do not expect anything from Him. Your statement is valid only for those poor fishermen who sacrificed every thing for Jesus and worked for His mission, for such people it is valid.

God will never give anything free to any body. Proper deservigness is needed. Jesus Himself has quoted this.

Deservingness is essential otherwise God will be balmed as partial. God is impartial. Jesus did not give salvation to the other theif, He gave salvation to only a their who recgonised Him as God. This is by the deservingness of that theif that Jesus gave salvation, other thief was not deserving.

Similarly when Jesus was carrying cross, many people weeped, He told them, do not weep for Me you weep for yourself, beacuse very shortly all of you will enter into suffering days....


Also, Jesus only went to that particular lady who came for taking water from the well. Jesus never went to all the ladies. Because she was deserving by her sacrifice and love to Jesus.

There were many blind people in Israel when Jesus came but He gave vision to that particular blind person only, not to all the blind people existed in Israel, because that blind person deserved it.

Jesus selected only 12 people as His disciple when millions of people were there in Israel. Becuase only 12 people only could conquere jealosy and egoism and could recognise Jesus as God, and hence they are deserving Hence He selected them only. They were ready to work and sacrifice everything for Him.

When Jeusus came He gave life to Lazar, there were lot of people who died during Jesus time, Jesus did not give life to all these people, He gave life to Lazar, since he deserved that due to his devotion to Jesus.

Jesus preached in Parables only, because, only then interested people will stay back and ask the hidden meaning of parables. But He explained everything to His disciples since His disciples left everything for Him. Hence they deserved the divine knoweldge and hence Jesus explained everything to them.

Jeus told the parable of 10 virgins which shows the improatant of altertness to recogninse God when He comes to this world in human form.

All along the bible Jesus mentions about the importance of spiritual effort. NOw i do not understand why you are saying that nothing is needed you are saved etc!! Jesus never told that salvation is free gift.



Offline Iconodule

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God will never give anything free to any body. Proper deservigness is needed. Jesus Himself has quoted this.

"...For he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."


"A riddle or the cricket's cry
Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake

Offline dattaswami

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God will never give anything free to any body. Proper deservigness is needed. Jesus Himself has quoted this.

"...For he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."




Have you completely read my reply?


Without eligibility, God will never give anything to anybody at any time. But the devotee must take the first step towards God. The necessity is for the devotee. The Veda says ‘Aptakamsya’ i.e., ‘God has attained everything and there is nothing which He has to achieve’. You have come near the sea with a pot. You should take a step into the water and make an effort to fill your pot.

Then the sea moves in to fill the pot with its water. Therefore human effort is necessary.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 12:47:01 AM by dattaswami »

Offline dattaswami

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The crucifixion of other two persons in the same time ..............soul.
Just as a grain of sand cannot counterbalance a large quantity of gold,
so God's necessary justice cannot, in like manner,
counterbalance His mercy."

- St. Isaac the Syrian



I am not misleading any one of you here. That is not at all my aim! My aim is to stress the importance of practical service to God without any expecation.

Offline dattaswami

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You don't think it's possible for a husband to love his wife unselfishly?

There may be exceptional cases, but our love to our children is the highest, since they are born of our blood and we are attached to them more.

Offline dattaswami

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dattaswami,

 Thanks for sharing this with us, but your intentions are unclear.  Are you wanting to introduce us to the Sanatan Dharma or maybe enter into a dialogue about our similarities/differences?  Respectfully, Lord Krishna, Sandeepani, Subhadra, Yamadharma Raja are all alien to most, if not all, of us here.  

Thanks.....

There is only one God, He comes to this world in human form time to time to preach divine knowledge. God has to be here in humna form then only we can directly clarify our doubts from Him, by interaction and discussion. For this purpose God comes to this world in human form. The divine knoweldge preached by such God in human form removes all our doubts becuase God alone can preach about Himself. He is the author of all the scriptures of the world.
He is the source of the scriptures. Hence He alone can preach about HImself.


Offline dattaswami

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Dear Brothers and Sisters, do not be misled by the rather superficial teachings of this "Swami."  His thoughts are far from those of Jesus Christ whom we worship as God.  It is to Him and His enlightened Saints that we look for teaching and guidance and not to a 21 year old American at Stamford University majoring in entrepreneurship!! 


I am not the person you mention!



Any way. If i mislead you then God will certainly punish me. He will punish me without all of your recommendation or prayer. You need not pray to God for my punishment. In His kingdom, nothing wrong will happen. He will take care of every issue. If something injustice happen it will be a black scar on Him. Thus God is very much alert that anybody else and am I a fool to get such severe punishment for misleading any of you?!!!!

Offline Irish Hermit

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There are two paths of love on God. The path of limited real love on wife and the path of unlimited real love on children.


How sad, Swami, that you find yourself on neither path of love, with no wife and no children.  Your jargon is quite glib and your delivery is very smooth and it will convince your devotees but a lot of what you write is nonsensical.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 12:58:09 AM by Irish Hermit »

Offline Iconodule

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Dattaswami- I am curious how much time you have spent studying Orthodox Christianity and learning what the Orthodox Church teaches. So far you have given no indication that you know anything about Orthodoxy in particular nor that you are interested in learning anything. Why, therefore, should we be expected to engage with your numerous cut-and-paste essays?
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Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake

Offline bogdan

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dattaswami,

 Thanks for sharing this with us, but your intentions are unclear.  Are you wanting to introduce us to the Sanatan Dharma or maybe enter into a dialogue about our similarities/differences?  Respectfully, Lord Krishna, Sandeepani, Subhadra, Yamadharma Raja are all alien to most, if not all, of us here. 

Thanks.....

There is only one God, He comes to this world in human form time to time to preach divine knowledge. God has to be here in humna form then only we can directly clarify our doubts from Him, by interaction and discussion. For this purpose God comes to this world in human form. The divine knoweldge preached by such God in human form removes all our doubts becuase God alone can preach about Himself. He is the author of all the scriptures of the world.
He is the source of the scriptures. Hence He alone can preach about HImself.



There's the rub. We believe God was incarnate only once and for all, in Jesus Christ, the second Person of the Holy Trinity. 

Further, we have no lingering doubts or questions because he sent us the Holy Spirit, the third Person of the Holy Trinity. He lives in the Church, which is mystically Christ's Body. The Spirit leads the Church into all truth.

And the next time we see the Incarnate Word of God and God, Jesus Christ, physically present on earth will be the second and final time: the dread judgment. 
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 01:09:03 AM by bogdan »

Offline GabrieltheCelt

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From your website:

"Swami means Lord and Datta means the Lord donated to human beings through a human body. Thus I am named as 'Datta Swami' by My devotees."

 Since I'm not a devotee of yours, I reckon I'll call you Hugh Morris.  ;)
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Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Quote
www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace

"Swami means Lord and Datta means the Lord donated to human beings through a human body. Thus I am named as 'Datta Swami' by My devotees."

Since we aren't your devotees, we can't call you that.  I vote we call you Hugh Morris.  :) ;)
"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying

Offline GabrieltheCelt

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dattaswami, Hugh Morris,

 Thanks for sharing this with us, but your intentions are unclear.  Are you wanting to introduce us to the Sanatan Dharma or maybe enter into a dialogue about our similarities/differences?  Respectfully, Lord Krishna, Sandeepani, Subhadra, Yamadharma Raja are all alien to most, if not all, of us here.  

 Since I'm not your devotee, I needed to go back and edit this.

Taken from your website:

"Swami means Lord and Datta means the Lord donated to human beings through a human body. Thus I am named as 'Datta Swami' by My devotees."
"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying

Offline Ortho_cat

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dattaswami,

 Thanks for sharing this with us, but your intentions are unclear.  Are you wanting to introduce us to the Sanatan Dharma or maybe enter into a dialogue about our similarities/differences?  Respectfully, Lord Krishna, Sandeepani, Subhadra, Yamadharma Raja are all alien to most, if not all, of us here.  

After 20+ threads, I'd say his intentions are becoming rather clear. To proselytize us...although to what though i'm not so sure!

Offline Ortho_cat

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He is making fun of us...


Who is 'us' in this context? Do you have a mouse in your pocket? ;)

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Biro and Iconodule are correct!

Do not engage this individual any further. I truly believe his ideas are demonic, whether or not he realizes it. A demon may be using him to sow confusion and error. The more we engage him, the more we give room to satan.

Christ came to save sinners, and no sinner is deserving of divine grace. That's why it's called GRACE!


Selam
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 03:23:04 AM by Gebre Menfes Kidus »
"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+

Offline Tallitot

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Proverbs 22:7

Offline dattaswami

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dattaswami,

 Thanks for sharing this with us, but your intentions are unclear.  Are you wanting to introduce us to the Sanatan Dharma or maybe enter into a dialogue about our similarities/differences?  Respectfully, Lord Krishna, Sandeepani, Subhadra, Yamadharma Raja are all alien to most, if not all, of us here.  

After 20+ threads, I'd say his intentions are becoming rather clear. To proselytize us...although to what though i'm not so sure!

If I mislead you then God will severely punish me, why should i mislead you to get punshiment from God. So will not harm any body...

Offline dattaswami

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From your website:

"Swami means Lord and Datta means the Lord donated to human beings through a human body. Thus I am named as 'Datta Swami' by My devotees."

 Since I'm not a devotee of yours, I reckon I'll call you Hugh Morris.  ;)

 Veda says that God is the infinite right knowledge and that God is the excellent knowledge (Satyam Jnanam…, Prajnanam….). This does not mean that God is the knowledge itself. It only means that the possessor of right and excellent knowledge is God and such knowledge is His correct identification mark since it is His inseparable characteristic. If some body wears a red shirt always, the red shirt becomes his identity mark and you can call him as the red shirt like calling “Oh! Red shirt! Come here”. Gita gives clarification on this point, which says that the possessor of knowledge is God (Jnaanitvaatmaiava……).  Since God enters the human being only, such identification is mentioned. The human being is always characterized by the knowledge. Knowledge is one sided characteristic of awareness. It means knowledge is always associated with awareness and awareness need not be associated always with knowledge.

An animal or bird has awareness but no knowledge. Therefore, you should not take awareness as the meaning of the words indicating knowledge in Veda like Jnanam and Prajnanam. This clarification is given in Gita, which says that God enters human body (Manusheem….). Hence, Gita always gives clarifications on Veda. Such correct clarification can be correctly clarified by the human incarnation only since the same God, who said Gita, can alone give the original sense of the text. The Author himself can alone give the correct sense of his own statement. Since, God is one and the same in all the human incarnations, any human incarnation can clarify the text said by any other human incarnation.

Offline dattaswami

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God will never give anything free to any body. Proper deservigness is needed. Jesus Himself has quoted this.

"...For he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."




Yes He is impartial but He takes a special care of those who love Him...

Offline dattaswami

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Jesus & the lady who applied costly scent to Him
Once, a lady was worshipping Jesus by applying a costly scent to Him. A disciple of Jesus criticized this and stated that the cost of the scent would have been spent for feeding the beggars. Jesus condemned the disciple and accepted her service. The reason for such personal service is that she is in the path of Nivrutti. She desires only the Lord and is not interested in the social service. The followers of Nivrutti will even leave the justice for the sake of the Lord (Sarvadharman—Gita). Such souls reach the permanent divine abode of the Lord. One cannot compare Jesus with a rich man who is also enjoying a similar service. The rich man is not God and he has to please the Lord. The final goal is not his selfish pleasure. In the case of Jesus there is no other God whom he should please. The service done to Jesus protected that lady in this world as well as in the upper world. But the service done to the rich man cannot protect anybody.

Once a rich man approached Jesus and asked for his future duty in order to enter the Heaven. Jesus told him that he should give away all his money to the beggars. Jesus did not ask him to bring costly scent to be applied to Him. The rich man belongs to the level of Pravrutti and is interested in his personal upliftment and personal enjoyment in the heaven. He is not interested in Lord Jesus. Thus the Pravrutti and Nivrutti should be differentiated. The ignorant people who are unaware of this difference will mistake Jesus to be fond of the application of the scent by the tender hand of a beautiful lady.

The Lord is the fire of knowledge and any stick will be burnt to ashes. When the Lord comes in the human form, He plays with all the qualities existing in the universe. He created all the qualities only (Yechaiva Sattvikah—Gita) for His divine play meant for the entertainment. The Lord created even Satan. In a cinema the role of villain also exists and the actor of that role is also paid. Any quality that is used for the entertainment and pleasure of the Lord is good and sacred. Any quality that is turned towards selfish pleasure and these worldly bonds is bad and impure. The ultimate aim of this universe is only His entertainment. Even Satan is sacred since he is playing his role sincerely by testing the firm faith of the devotees.

You must hate his attraction for diverting you from the Lord but not the Satan. Jesus told that you should hate the sin but not the sinner. The Lord is beyond qualities because the qualities consist of the subtle body (Gunateetah—Gita). These qualities are tools of His divine play and He is not the subtle body. Therefore He is not the qualities and is untouched by them. A human being is the subtle body and is controlled by the qualities. He is a tool to the game played by the qualities (Nanyam Gunebhyah—Gita). The Lord uses the bad qualities as His mask so that the undeserving devotees do not approach Him for any favors. He is also using these bad qualities to test the firm faith of the sincere devotees. No human being can understand the Human incarnation. Every human being easily misunderstands the Lord in human form.

Offline dattaswami

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Quote
www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace

"Swami means Lord and Datta means the Lord donated to human beings through a human body. Thus I am named as 'Datta Swami' by My devotees."

Since we aren't your devotees, we can't call you that.  I vote we call you Hugh Morris.  :) ;)

To a deserving devotee, Jesus told He and His father are one and the same. When Jesus saw a devotee who was slightly affected by jealousy and egoism, Jesus came down by one step saying that He was the son of the God. The word son is indicating that He is different from the God but the same spirit is present in both like the same blood in the father and the son. This means that He is different and smaller than the God but at the same time has the same essence. It is like the relationship between the mighty ocean and the tiny water drop. The father is major and the son is minor component. They resemble qualitatively but differ quantitatively. This is the visishta advaita of Ramanuja.

 When Jesus met a devotee who is fully bacterialised by jealousy and egoism He told that He was the humble messenger of God. This is the Dvaita of Madhva. Therefore the human incarnation will declare its level based on the level of the receiver. Mohammad told that He is the messenger of the Lord. Thus there is a gradual degradation of spiritual obedience and the gradual growth of jealousy and egoism. Jesus stands as a transition bridge between the Advaita of Krishna and Dvaita of Mohammad.

Offline Justin Kissel

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"Swami means Lord and Datta means the Lord donated to human beings through a human body. Thus I am named as 'Datta Swami' by My devotees."

Since we aren't your devotees, we can't call you that.  I vote we call you Hugh Morris.  :) ;)

When I become a guru/master/whatever I'm going to insist that my devotees call me Buff Hardbody :P
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 06:00:14 AM by Asteriktos »
We all have an El Guapo to face. Be brave, and fight like lions!

Offline dattaswami

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Essence Of Jesus Preaching --- Meaning Of Saving
Saving from the troubles and misery is the general sense of the word saving. In spiritual sense saving means cutting all the worldly bonds and establishing real bond with God, Who alone is the truth. God is truth. This means that God is infinite power. The creation is just His imagination and is almost not true. The imagining person is said to truly exist. The world, which is just His imagination and which is completely not nothing. The world is made of an iota of energy of God. God is like the infinite ocean of energy. Compared to God the world is almost nothing. Thus this entire creation is under the full control of God. Just like the person doing some imagination creates an imaginary world in him, God created this imaginary world in Him. The imagining person can fully control the world. He can transform any item into any other item. He can raise a dead body in His imaginary world. All the miracles of human incarnations can be explained only by this concept.

God who is present in the human incarnation does all these miracles only to establish this concept. If the world is equally true, then the world is equally powerful to God. In such case God cannot do whatever He likes. Since the world is least powerful and God is most powerful, God controls the entire world like a very strong person controlling very weak person. Thus the word truth indicates the omnipotent nature of God. When we say that this world is not true, it indicates the negligible power of the world. Suppose a small ant is on your shirt, will you say that yourself and the ant are present in the house? The ant is negligible and is treated as nothing. Therefore, a person who knows this concept surrenders to God and accepts Him as the saviour. In his eyes the entire world looks like an ant before God. You are a tiny particle in this ant-world. You can understand your position by putting a relative scale.

Assume that this ant is Infinite Ocean of energy. You are an iota of that ocean. This means your power is negligible before the power of this entire nature. The world is like the ocean and you are like a drop in it. God is like the ocean and the world a drop in God. You must understand this simile not in terms of volume but in terms of the intensity of the power. When we utter the word God, we immediately imagine Him as a very large figure with unlimited boundaries. The space is largest but as no power as it is treated has nothing. The atom bomb is very small but it has enormous power. Therefore, our idea about God should not be in terms of the three-dimensional space. When a person imagines a large city, the city is very huge but the person is very small. But that small person has created, maintains and finally dissolves this huge city. He can do anything in this huge city. Infact He is standing outside this huge city. When He wants to enter into this huge imaginary city, He will imagine a small form and He identifies Himself with that form. That small form represents the outside person. This imagined form, which is identified by the outside person, is treated as the outside person directly. This imagined small form is the human incarnation. The outside person is God. The imaginary huge city is this world.

Thus God identifies Himself with the human incarnation. From this angle the human incarnation and the God are one and the same. There is another angle in which the human incarnation is not the original God but a part and parcel of God. In this angle God and the human incarnation are treated as father and son. You can experience the Father only through this Son. In the third angle the human incarnation is just sent by God into this world as a messenger with some power. Jesus talked this truth in all the three angles. Jesus can save any human being who has any one of these three angles. Acceptance of Jesus as your saviour is the essential step in the spiritual effort. Here Jesus means the human incarnation in general. Only God is the saviour. But you cannot approach God directly. Only through the human incarnation you can approach God. This means you should accept the human incarnation as that very God. In such case only the human incarnation becomes your saviour.

God is like free electrons flowing in the atmosphere. These Electrons are the electricity. Then can you heat water by keeping the vessel containing water in the atmosphere? When these Electrons enter a medium like the metallic wire, you can heat water. If the medium is human form it is most convenient for you to clear your doubts, to love and to serve Him. Therefore, acceptance of Jesus as your Saviour means that you should accept the human incarnation as your saviour. It is told that Jesus will come again. This means that the human incarnation is coming in every human generation.

Otherwise, if one generation was only blessed by such fortune, the other generations will charge God as partial and such charge is justified. Therefore, if you think that Jesus means only that particular human incarnation, which came about 2000 years back, you have lost the whole concept. Through a particular example generalization must be made. If you say that sodium atom is indivisible it means the atom of any element is indivisible. If you say that Daniel is born, it means that every human being will be born. If this basic analysis is lost, the entire spiritual castle falls down due to the absence of its foundation.

Offline dattaswami

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"Swami means Lord and Datta means the Lord donated to human beings through a human body. Thus I am named as 'Datta Swami' by My devotees."

Since we aren't your devotees, we can't call you that.  I vote we call you Hugh Morris.  :) ;)

When I become a guru/master/whatever I'm going to insist that my devotees call me Buff Hardbody :P



I have come down to preach and reach each one of you here. I am impartial from My side. Your attachments depend on your own merits and defects. I am controlling My fame as long as I am alive, which will rise like a Tsunami after My exit. There is a reason for this. To accept the human incarnation itself creates the seed of egoism and jealousy. If the human form of God becomes famous while alive, the seed of egoism and jealousy will grow like a huge tree even in the heart of the closest devotee. Priests accepted the past human prophets. But to accept Jesus as Prophet in live form, jealousy entered as seed.

 Jesus was drawing crowds by His divine knowledge and the growing fame of Jesus developed the jealousy more and more, which lead to His crucification. Even His closest devotee betrayed Him due to jealousy and egoism. God is not fond of fame because He is bored with the fame in the upper world. Only human beings are fond of fame. God enjoys defame, which is not available in the upper world. Crucification was defame and the Lord enjoyed it well here.


Offline Shanghaiski

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"Swami means Lord and Datta means the Lord donated to human beings through a human body. Thus I am named as 'Datta Swami' by My devotees."

Since we aren't your devotees, we can't call you that.  I vote we call you Hugh Morris.  :) ;)

When I become a guru/master/whatever I'm going to insist that my devotees call me Buff Hardbody :P



I have come down to preach and reach each one of you here. I am impartial from My side. Your attachments depend on your own merits and defects. I am controlling My fame as long as I am alive, which will rise like a Tsunami after My exit. There is a reason for this. To accept the human incarnation itself creates the seed of egoism and jealousy. If the human form of God becomes famous while alive, the seed of egoism and jealousy will grow like a huge tree even in the heart of the closest devotee. Priests accepted the past human prophets. But to accept Jesus as Prophet in live form, jealousy entered as seed.

 Jesus was drawing crowds by His divine knowledge and the growing fame of Jesus developed the jealousy more and more, which lead to His crucification. Even His closest devotee betrayed Him due to jealousy and egoism. God is not fond of fame because He is bored with the fame in the upper world. Only human beings are fond of fame. God enjoys defame, which is not available in the upper world. Crucification was defame and the Lord enjoyed it well here.



You need professional, spiritual help.
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If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
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I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline Ortho_cat

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I have come down to preach and reach each one of you here. I am impartial from My side.Your attachments depend on your own merits and defects. I am controlling My fame as long as I am alive, which will rise like a Tsunami after My exit. There is a reason for this.


Ok, this post just increased the entertainment value of this thread by a sizeable margin.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 09:40:05 AM by Ortho_cat »

Offline NorthernPines

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Discussion requires contest. We need to know the exact sources of the tripe you're posting so often.

I give discourses and the discurses are recoreded and typed.

Very few of them are given below.

You can visit my web site also
www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace



April 2nd, 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/f5f2b69b-a39a-45b3-a819-9ecd4974d0e8/Discourse-on-2nd-April-2010
18 April 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/224bf4b6-f988-46f5-b5d6-c40e9d2809f6/Discourse-on-18-April-2010
March 7 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/26c14ce7-499e-481c-b2cd-3ddd24fa2019/March-7-2010
March 14 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/8b295057-6af6-44d3-a364-ec855d0b21d5/March-14-2010
March 28 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/809191ca-a574-4a78-9b40-ac557be40015/March-28-2010
February 2 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/da6fdf46-9522-4ffa-9931-653b03700039/Febuary-2-2010
Feb 7 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/cb86203a-ac1b-4ed2-ba65-91607c889059/Feb-7-2010
Feb 27 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/7dc19aa6-d792-4cec-a691-c2a3d82fe04c/Feb-27-2010
Jan 23 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/5b53b50e-6a52-4924-9200-ffb4844d9a57/Jan-23-2010
Jan 26 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/fed9074f-fb6f-4048-8038-cf6ab15d08c4/Jan-26,-2010
25 April 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/8e0be2d3-965b-4eb3-97fa-ac4cd385dabb/Discourse-on-25--April-2010
Shankara-Jayanthi-Message
http://www.esnips.com/doc/b5fd5007-a6a0-4500-a072-413599b02c52/Shankara-Jayanthi-Message
May-20-2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/5379b1e6-8861-421a-8971-e7610a787ef5/May-20-2010
July 4 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/017bd067-792f-4a5f-ba20-cbce63327496/4-July-2010
11 July 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/d0da717d-6467-4497-a300-3a969be3f860/11-July-2010
20 July 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/3db8f18c-c1e9-4b47-81f1-2832a3aeae32/20-July-2010

25 July 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/95fea621-58a6-40f2-86c5-90cf9d5c9ec9/25-July-2010-Divine_Discourse_By_Swami-GURUPURNIMA

http://www.esnips.com/doc/1907280b-54af-4654-a51c-50c1996896aa/25-July-2010-After-noon-message

25 July 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/95fea621-58a6-40f2-86c5-90cf9d5c9ec9/25-July-2010-Divine_Discourse_By_Swami-GURUPURNIMA
25 July 2010 After noon message
http://www.esnips.com/doc/1907280b-54af-4654-a51c-50c1996896aa/25-July-2010-After-noon-message
2 August 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/74faa0ab-97bc-4ca0-b431-576e86d7f8fd/August-2-2010
August 3, 2010
http://www.esnips.com/doc/567746ab-8e86-44ed-820c-fdf05b1eb7d2/August-3-2010





As I told you via PM, this is a good start for giving the sources of your copy and past posts, however you still need to explicitly state, within each individual post you make whether or not you are merely copy and pasting material and a link to the particular website. How would you like it if we began copy and pasting long extracts from our theologians like Met. Kallistos Ware, but without references to where it is we got that material? I understand these are, presumably, your words, but we still feel as though you are just throwing a bunch of words at us and very few of us can even make sense out of what it is you're saying. As PeterTheAleut has said, by simply throwing a near limitless supply of previous writings of yours at us, you are turning the forum into your own personal blog. We believe God is not a God of confusion, however 20 threads totally void of context or one to one dialogue IS confusing to every single one us us here.

 I am therefore going to make an official request; from this moment forward, any future post of yours that contains copy and pasted material from anywhere else, that doesn't explicitly state that it is in fact a copy and pasted post will result in further and immediate disciplinary action. I'm sorry we couldn't have gotten off to a better start but coming here and  explicitly violating the forum rules, not to mention the utter lack of any sort of good internet manners leaves me no choice in the matter.

Northern Pines, Religious Topics Forum Moderator


« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 10:43:15 AM by NorthernPines »

Offline dattaswami

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I give discourses and the discurses are recoreded and typed.

Very few of them are given below.

You can visit my web site also
www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace


couldn't have gotten off to a better start but coming here and  explicitly violating the forum rules, not to mention the utter lack of any sort of good internet manners leaves me no choice in the matter.

Northern Pines, Religious Topics Forum Moderator[/color]



Following is not a copy pase...

Northern Pines;

I understand your point.

I am introducing certain concepts through my posts, which are a part of many discourses which i gave.

The knoweldge is open for discussion and I am no way distrub all of you, but would like to see your points on my points.

For example today christianity has fallen down to such an extent that they use God mainly for obtaining worldly things and some say that salvation is free gift.

This preaching is OK for those who are just started believing in God. For them it is a point of attraction. But once one become a devotee of God, next step is to please Him not only through mental devotion like prayers, but practical sacrifice also. This does not mean that God need our sacrifice and service but it shows our strength of love on Him. God is unimaginable and no body can comprehend, that is one point. But other point the value we give to God.

 The point is not about imaginable form or unimaginable form of God. The point is whether you can prove practically that God is highest for you or not?

A voice from the sky came down to Abraham asking him that whether he can sacrifice his son for the sake of God. Here God is not in the visible form. Abraham immediately proved his devotion. Jesus asked the fishermen to leave everything and follow Him. They left everything and followed Jesus. Here, Abraham and fishermen proved their highest devotion for God. In the case of Abraham God was in invisible form and unimaginable. In the case of fishermen God was in a visible human form. Therefore, the imaginable and unimaginable concepts of God are not important.

Moreover, the unimaginable concept of God is not from the side of God. It is only from your side since it is your defect. Your imagination cannot transcend the dimensions of space to understand God, who is beyond space, being the creator of space.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 11:01:00 AM by dattaswami »

Offline dattaswami

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Northern Pines;

following is not a copy paste....

In my posts you might have noticed that a very important point is evolved out that the importance of spiritual effort and practical service to God, that is a very important pont also loving and serving GOd without any expectation...
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 11:01:33 AM by dattaswami »

Offline dattaswami

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I have come down to preach and reach each one of you here. I am impartial from My side.Your attachments depend on your own merits and defects. I am controlling My fame as long as I am alive, which will rise like a Tsunami after My exit. There is a reason for this.


Ok, this post just increased the entertainment value of this thread by a sizeable margin.
Here the God component in me told that....

Human incarnation is a mixture of God and Son of GOd existing in the same human body. God comes to this world by entering Son of God and preach through the mouth of Son of God for the upliftment of others...The divine knoweldge you are reading are from the GOD alone...
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 11:04:01 AM by dattaswami »

Offline dattaswami

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I have come down to preach and reach each one of you here. I am impartial from My side.Your attachments depend on your own merits and defects. I am controlling My fame as long as I am alive, which will rise like a Tsunami after My exit. There is a reason for this.


Ok, this post just increased the entertainment value of this thread by a sizeable margin.

For God this world is just an entertainment. He is bored off in the upperworld due to continues praises. Hence for a change He comes down in Human form and preaches divine knoweldge for His upliftment and even He hear the abuses of people and simply smiles at it, because He even enjoys the abuses also since He is get a break from the continous praises in the upperworld...Thus devotees are entertaining God by even abusing Him!!

Offline NorthernPines

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Northern Pines;

I understand your point.

I'm glad. I would personally enjoy discussing some of these topics, but not dozens at a time, maybe a point or two at a time and then sort of dig into those. lengthy discourses are fine for reading but not for internet forums such as this.


Quote
For example today christianity has fallen down to such an extent that they use God mainly for obtaining worldly things and some say that salvation is free gift.


It might do some good to explore a bit about the Orthodox Christian faith itself. We believe no such thing like many Evangelical Protestants do, that Christianity is merely a "free ticket to heaven" or to give us a bunch of cool things like cars, money a toys. We don't see "stuff" as inherently bad in itself, but the Christian life is not about getting "stuff" at all as it in what has been labeled the "prosperity Gospel".

It's tempting to label "Christianity" as a monolithic block of basically everyone believing the same thing, but it is not. While we do hold certain doctrines in common with other Christians, you'll find that Orthodox Christianity has a vastly different approach than the Christianity you're probably familiar with.


Quote
This preaching is OK for those who are just started believing in God. For them it is a point of attraction. But once one become a devotee of God, next step is to please Him not only through mental devotion like prayers, but practical sacrifice also. This does not mean that God need our sacrifice and service but it shows our strength of love on Him.

I basically agree with that. While we wouldn't word it in exactly the same way, I think the concept is essentially the same. We have a concept called "Theosis", which you can read about here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosis#Greek_Orthodox_theology

Stick to the Orthodox description. It's not a perfect description but it's an okay start. It is summed up in St. Athanasius' saying that, "God became man (in the person of Jesus of Nazareth) that man might become god". Not that we become God literally in essence but that we do partake of His divine nature, His energies, which are actually part of God Himself.


Quote
Moreover, the unimaginable concept of God is not from the side of God. It is only from your side since it is your defect. Your imagination cannot transcend the dimensions of space to understand God, who is beyond space, being the creator of space.


I'm not sure I completely follow, but we too say that it is impossible to know God in His essence. It is a complete and utter mystery, and it is not even proper to refer to God as a "being" at all, but rather simply to say that "God is".

Orthodoxy has much more in common with Eastern religious thought and concepts than say Protestant Baptists do. Not that I'm bashing Protestantism or Baptists, I'm just saying you should assume we hold to the same thought patterns as they do.

NP