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Author Topic: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism  (Read 104643 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #810 on: November 23, 2010, 10:14:34 AM »

Influence of the Russian Liturgy (1904)


Saint Nicholas church, Port Arthur


In a journey across Asia three years ago, occupying several months, I was deeply impressed by the many evidences of the leavening power of Christianity throughout the Russian Empire. In Japan, one of the most successful and influential Christian missions is that of the Russian Church, under the leadership of Bishop Nicolai, at Tokyo. My first attendance upon a Russian church service was at Port Arthur, where I found myself crowding for standing room with an indiscriminate company of Cossacks of the rank and officers of every grade, including Admiral Alexieff, and hearing, as ever afterwards in the Russian service, the crying of infants in arms, who are regularly brought by their parents to the church service, to receive the communion. Later, while journeying upon the construction train which penetrated Manchuria, I spent some days in the company of a benevolent-hearted inferior church official who was collecting money for alms to be administered by the church. Everywhere his reception was most cordial by all classes.

In all the villages and cities of Siberia and Turkestan, the priest, with his family, evidently occupied a position of great respect and influence, and was looked to with unfailing confidence by the poorer classes for sympathy and help. Repeatedly fairs of the Red Cross Society were encountered, engaged in raising money to provide nurses and assistance, not only for the hospitals in the army, but for those which are erected at the prominent points frequented by emigrants and exiles. In all the post-houses throughout a fourteen-hundred-mile drive through Turkestan, copies of the New Testament, furnished by the Imperial Bible Society at St. Petersburg, and bearing the imprint of the British and Foreign Bible Society, were found in the waiting-rooms.

In the wilds of Transbaikalia, as well as in the deserts of Turkestan, penetrated by the railroad, cars were met, provided with priests, and singers, and all the paraphernalia necessary for a church service. At one place in Transbaikalia, where a church car was sidetracked for a few days to meet the wants of the locality, our train stopped long enough for such a service. The third and fourth-class passengers immediately surrounded it, and participated with the greatest reverence. In the larger churches in Irkutsk and Krasnoyarsk, we encountered beautiful young women of good estate, conducting classes of untrained boys to the services, and watching over them with all the interest displayed by those connected with the " settlements " in our own country. In fact, everywhere we were surrounded by that indefinable atmosphere which we characterize as Christian civilization, and which is in as striking contrast with heathen civilization as light is with darkness.

In broader lines, also, the influence of this leavening power of Christianity is seen everywhere throughout the Empire. It was the Tsar of Russia who summoned the peace congress through which the Tribunal of the Hague was established. It was the Tsar of Russia who initiated, and pushed to completion, the emancipation of the serfs,?a work far greater and far more successfully accomplished than that of the emancipation of the slaves of America. Russia, indeed, is full of philanthropists and those engaged in promoting social reforms, of wliom Tolstoy is one of the most extreme and unpractical examples.

All this, and much more, can be said illustrating the leavening power of Christianity in the Empire, without abating our condemnation of the many great evils still inherent in the church polity and in the body politic. For, there can be no question that in some way the main facts of Christianity are held up before the Russian people of all classes, and that these facts have a most powerful, controlling force in the lives of the masses of the people.

The manner of the dissemination of this Christian truth is an interesting object of study. Preaching occupies but a small place in the Russian church services. Though the Bible is freely disseminated, the illiteracy of the people interferes with its general reading. But it is read extensively in the church service; while pictures of Bible scenes fairly cover the walls of the churches, and every one learns their meaning. Russian pilgrims to Palestine are far more numerous than from any other country, and are mostly from the peasant class. These make the rounds of the sacred places with apparent discrimination and intelligence. In the appropriate season of the year crowds of them may be found wending their way on foot from Jerusalem to the Jordan, to Bethlehem and Hebron, and to the well of Sychar. Dense crowds may be seen gathering about the sacred places, listening to addresses from well-informed guides with far more interest and with closer attention than is shown in a personally conducted Cook's tour of visitors. The information which these pilgrims, on their return, scatter throughout Russia, can hardly be overestimated.

But most prominent of all must be mentioned the liturgy of the Russian Church as it is artistically set to music by composers of the highest rank, and most effectively and beautifully rendered by trained choirs.

The favorite liturgy is that written by the "goldenmouthed" St. John Chrysostom, the most famous of the fathers of the Greek Church of the fourth century. This, like all the Russian church services, is translated into the language of the people. The dialect, indeed, is archaic, which has led many to suppose that it is unintelligible to the common people. The same might be said with some degree of truth concerning the English Prayer Book, though it is by no means so archaic as is the Russian liturgy. Still, in both cases, by reason of frequent repetition, the language evidently becomes comprehensible to all; so that it cannot be doubted that every peasant in the Empire becomes from his earliest years familiar with this noble embodiment of the great facts and doctrines of Christianity.

The mere reading of the words can but be a means of grace; while to have it given, as it is in all the Russian churches, by well-trained choirs in the effective setting of the music of the greatest masters, is impressive beyond expression, and is in striking contrast to the diluted sentimentalism characterizing so much of the popular Sunday-school music of America, and to the musical compositions which are current so largely in Protestant services, but which are adapted rather for the concert-hall than for worshiping congregations.

Tchaikovsky (1840-1893) was the ranking genius among Russian musical composers of the last half century, and was scarcely inferior to any, except Wagner in Western Europe. His operas, symphonies, sonatas, and shorter pieces for the piano are everywhere popular among the highest class of musicians ; but it is not generally known that he devoted a considerable portion of his strength and genius to the perfecting of the Russian sacred music. Several volumes of Bortniansky's compositions, which are most widely used in the Russian Church, have been harmonized by him in accordance with modern ideas. One of his own principal works, also, is an original composition adapted to the entire liturgy.

I have stood in the Russian churches, great and small, in Siberia and Turkestan, and in Moscow and St. Petersburg, and have been not only entranced myself by this service, but filled with wonder and delight while seeing horny-handed peasants, with careworn faces, listening with streaming eyes to these profound, inspiring, comforting, and most beautiful conceptions of Christian truth as they were wafted to our ears upon the dignified, appropriate, and tender strains of music of the great Russian composer. Who could help being moved to better things as he is led thus to adore "the Maker of all things, who for us sinful men, and our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Spirit and the Virgin Mary; and became like unto men, and was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and suffered, and was buried, but rose on the third day according to the Word, and ascended into heaven most high, and now sitteth on the right hand of God, and who shall come again to judge the quick and dead"! To see, as I often did in these services, men and women, both of low and of high estate, advance to kneel and kiss the gilded feet of the painting of the Man of sorrows, was to witness something far more than a mere formality.

Excerpts from The Bibliotheca Sacra, Volume 61, pp 166-170 (January, 1904).

http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2010/02/influence-of-russian-liturgy-1904.html
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« Reply #811 on: November 23, 2010, 12:31:01 PM »

You're participating in Mass?  Are you talking about a Mass in the Roman Catholic Church?

Do you understand that's not the same as the Orthodox Church?

What you have instead of mass then..??
In the Orthodox Church our service of worship is called the Divine Liturgy, both the Roman Catholic mass & our Divine Liturgy are conceptually the same since both existed in communion before the churches split in 1054. Basically it is preparation for holy communion or the Eucharist preceded prior to with fasting, prayer at the commencement of service, hymns, reading of scripture, homily, & then the concentration of eucharistc preparation alongside ongoing worship & culminating in the Eucharist. Probably this is all familiar to you & I am just trying to be thorough.

So the basic structure of worship in Roman Catholic and Orthodox is similar only....

What is the major difference between Roman Catholic and Orthodox?
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« Reply #812 on: November 23, 2010, 12:34:28 PM »

You're participating in Mass?  Are you talking about a Mass in the Roman Catholic Church?

Do you understand that's not the same as the Orthodox Church?

What you have instead of mass then..??
In the Orthodox Church our service of worship is called the Divine Liturgy, both the Roman Catholic mass & our Divine Liturgy are conceptually the same since both existed in communion before the churches split in 1054. Basically it is preparation for holy communion or the Eucharist preceded prior to with fasting, prayer at the commencement of service, hymns, reading of scripture, homily, & then the concentration of eucharistc preparation alongside ongoing worship & culminating in the Eucharist. Probably this is all familiar to you & I am just trying to be thorough.

So the basic structure of worship in Roman Catholic and Orthodox is similar only....

What is the major difference between Roman Catholic and Orthodox?

Here's an article that outlines the main differences:

http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/reading/ortho_cath.html
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« Reply #813 on: November 23, 2010, 01:08:40 PM »

I don't have any problem with dattaspammi attending RC Mass (obviously! Cheesy ), just hard to believe he can attend "holy mass every day" but have no idea which church he's in.
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« Reply #814 on: November 23, 2010, 01:20:37 PM »

I don't have any problem with dattaspammi attending RC Mass (obviously! Cheesy ), just hard to believe he can attend "holy mass every day" but have no idea which church he's in.

Yeah I am not opposed to it as such. But I do have the same concerns that you have theistgal. I still don't think he's being genuine at all. What you brought up is case in point. He goes to Mass everyday? OK, maybe. I really think he's playing cat and mouse with us now. I could be wrong.
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« Reply #815 on: November 23, 2010, 01:32:10 PM »

Perhaps, but I am also glad that at least he is in some way looking into what Christians do and practice. Hopefully he will also go see an Orthodox church at some point (soon, we may hope), and do some more reading on the subject. Every little bit helps. When I was first looking into Orthodoxy as to the purpose of conversion, many things helped me on the way. A book here, a lecture there... it took time for me to work up the gumption to walk into a church. I pray that Venu will also be able to do that.  angel





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« Reply #816 on: November 23, 2010, 05:01:04 PM »

Hinduism
The Power of the Pagan Gods


Hinduism's Assault
Upon Christianity

By Hieromonk Seraphim Rose

http://www.orthodoxcentral.com/fatheralexander/unzippedfiles/hinduism_e.doc


When Christians accept the Hindu propaganda that there is no battle going on, that the differences between Christianity and Hinduism are only apparent and not real — then Hindu ideas are free to take over the souls of Christians, winning the battle without a struggle. And the end result of this battle is truly shocking; the corrupting power of Hinduism is immense. In my own case, with all of the basically sound training that I received at the convent, twenty years in Hinduism brought me to the very doors of the love of evil. You see, in India “God” is also worshipped as Evil, in the form of the goddess Kali. But about this I will speak in the next section, on Hindu practices.

This is the end in store when there is no more Christian dogma. I say this from personal experience, because I have worshipped Kali in India and in this country. And she who is satan is no joke. If you give up the Living God, the throne is not going to remain empty.
-----------------

Not only are false gods (i.e., demons) going to try to occupy it but "living incarnations of gods" such as Dattaswami who are spiritually sick and deluded and believe themselves to be divine.
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« Reply #817 on: November 23, 2010, 08:31:05 PM »

Amen!
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« Reply #818 on: November 23, 2010, 09:29:16 PM »

Hinduism
The Power of the Pagan Gods


Hinduism's Assault
Upon Christianity

By Hieromonk Seraphim Rose

http://www.orthodoxcentral.com/fatheralexander/unzippedfiles/hinduism_e.doc


When Christians accept the Hindu propaganda that there is no battle going on, that the differences between Christianity and Hinduism are only apparent and not real — then Hindu ideas are free to take over the souls of Christians, winning the battle without a struggle

[snip]

If a true Hindu wishes to come here and have a true debate, then your cut & paste would be relevant, but as has already pointed out, dattaspammi is not really a good representative of Hinduism.

And FWIW I don't think we have to accept "Hindu propaganda" to acknowledge that Hinduism is not necessarily pure evil.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #819 on: November 23, 2010, 10:41:34 PM »


Here's an article that outlines the main differences:

http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/reading/ortho_cath.html

Thanks for that differences.....


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« Reply #820 on: November 24, 2010, 02:04:35 AM »

to acknowledge that Hinduism is not necessarily pure evil.  Roll Eyes

The essence of all the religions is one and the same since the Universal God gives it.  The religions are different from each other because the religious leaders who are the human beings create the material that surrounds the essence.  The skeleton is one and the same and there is no difference in the skeletons of the human beings.  

The difference lies only in the external materials covering the skeletons, which are flesh, skin etc., in these external materials differences arose due to deficiencies.  Suppose there are two students.  One is weak in physics and the other is weak in chemistry.

 Each student mocks the other for the deficiency.  Therefore, the deficiency is the root of difference and quarrels in the religions.  The reason for the deficiency is the human brain that developed the external body of the spiritual knowledge.  Therefore, the spiritual knowledge is the skeleton and the religion is its body.  The deficiency in a religion can be removed by taking the merits of the other religions.  Every religion has deficiency and the rectification of that deficiency should be from other religion without any ego and jealousy.  Do not think that you are without defects. Do not think that your parents have no defects.  Do not think that your teachers and preachers do not have defects.  Therefore, observe others and take the merits from anybody without prejudice.

The blind thinking that your nation, your state, your district, your town or village, your caste, your family, your parents, etc., is the best or highest should be eradicated from your brain.   Always base your self on your analysis and commonsense that is observed from the examples in the world.  Your elders might have polluted the scriptures but this world is the best scripture written by God. This world-scripture is Universal without any color of any religion.  You can develop the entire spiritual knowledge by observing this world and the scientific knowledge existing in the various examples or items of the world.  Any human being cannot pollute these.  You must be scientific and analytical in your belief.  The ignorant and clever religious elders always exploit blind belief. 
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« Reply #821 on: November 24, 2010, 02:18:11 AM »

Hinduism
The Power of the Pagan Gods


Hinduism's Assault
Upon Christianity

By Hieromonk Seraphim Rose

http://www.orthodoxcentral.com/fatheralexander/unzippedfiles/hinduism_e.doc


When Christians accept the Hindu propaganda that there is no battle going on, that the differences between Christianity and Hinduism are only apparent and not real — then Hindu ideas are free to take over the souls of Christians, winning the battle without a struggle

[snip]

If a true Hindu wishes to come here and have a true debate, then your cut & paste would be relevant, but as has already pointed out, dattaspammi is not really a good representative of Hinduism.

And FWIW I don't think we have to accept "Hindu propaganda" to acknowledge that Hinduism is not necessarily pure evil.  Roll Eyes

I am presenting these excepts from Fr Seraphim Rose's book as a counterfoil to the blasphemy and the profound delusion (prelest) of this Swami who believes he is the present terrestrial incarnation of Jesus Christ.  Besides jokes and teasing, there needs to be something serious to offset his evil.  It would be a terrible thing if he leads Christians here astray and I, as a priest, have not lifted a finger or uttered one word of warning.
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« Reply #822 on: November 24, 2010, 02:36:18 AM »

I, as a priest, have not lifted a finger or uttered one word of warning.

Oh! Rev. Fr. Irish Hermit . You are a great devotee of God who leads His people in this world. You have to strive for attaining perfection by unalloyed love to God. Reduce all your attachment to world and family. Be brave infront of God. Learn His divine knowledge and practice it in your life. Stive hard for His knowledge, reduce all your attachment by effort, and ask and clarify all your spiritual doubts and improve your love on God. Preach your people about the importance of loving God practically without any expecation of anything in return. Invoke in them the love of God, share divine knowledge with Him. Ask from God the knowledge of God... This way you will please God...Detach yourself from this material world which is full of attachment by attaching your selves to God....
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« Reply #823 on: November 24, 2010, 02:42:49 AM »

I, as a priest, have not lifted a finger or uttered one word of warning.

Oh! Rev. Fr. Irish Hermit . You are a great devotee of God who leads His people in this world. You have to strive for attaining perfection by unalloyed love to God. Reduce all your attachment to world and family. Be brave infront of God. Learn His divine knowledge and practice it in your life. Stive hard for His knowledge, reduce all your attachment by effort, and ask and clarify all your spiritual doubts and improve your love on God. Preach your people about the importance of loving God practically without any expecation of anything in return. Invoke in them the love of God, share divine knowledge with Him. Ask from God the knowledge of God... This way you will please God...Detach yourself from this material world which is full of attachment by attaching your selves to God....

If you are truly the incarnation of Jesus Christ, then I and my brothers and sisters here must fall down and worship you.

Will we be worshipping Christ when we kiss your feet or your photo, or will we be worshipping the devil?
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« Reply #824 on: November 24, 2010, 02:49:03 AM »

More nonsense from Venu.

You are talking to a priest.  Have some respect!
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« Reply #825 on: November 24, 2010, 02:57:04 AM »


If you are truly the incarnation of Jesus Christ, then I and my brothers and sisters here must fall down and worship you.

Will we be worshipping Christ when we kiss your feet or your photo, or will we be worshipping the devil?

God never wishes to love Him alone. He only likes you to love the good devotees in the world and to serve them. When some one starts loving Him, He never encourages and creates so many hurdles in the path of devotion. You can observe that every devotee suffered seriously in his or her life. If God encouraged the devotion, the life of every devotee should be a journey on roses and not on thorns.

A real human incarnation will not never tell that I am God, worship me!! He preaches the divine knowledge. The quality of divine knowledge decides whether the person is God in human form or not.

Worship is not the aim of God, since He is already beyond fame and name. His main aim is to uplift His own children so that they will become His dear and near.


The position of human incarnation is always miserable in this world. He continously suffers for His real devotees on this earth. He is under pain all the time one way or the other taking the sins of devotees. By His suffering He make His devotees feel good. He has to suffer the sins of His devotees the same way other wise the devotees had suffered. God in human form will never use supper power to reduce His suffering.

Either human incarnation has to suffer or the devotee has to suffer. Human incarnation secretely take the sins of His dear devotees on Him and suffer for them. If the devotee came to know about this he will not allow Him to suffer for their sake. That much they love God in human form and that is the deservingness to be called as His devotee.

Are you such a devotee of God? The question is not about GOd in human form, the question is about the devotee, whether the devotee give value for God in human form. This is a fire test.

God does not require any service or any pleasure from anybody or anything because He is already omnipotent and Infinite Ocean of bliss.  Devotees are trying to reach Him to get bliss from Him and transfer their sins to Him.  God is not gaining anything from the devotee except the suffering of his sins.  Hence, God is not interested in this Nivrutti, which is a business ending in sure loss and no gain! God does not like to take the sins of devotees often, except very few exceptional devotees, because such transfer of sins is a disturbance to the administration of the cycle of deeds also as per the divine law.  

But today devotees are thinking that God is trying for Nivrutti to get some devotees for His service and some are thinking that the post of God cannot be continued unless He gets certain number of liberated souls through Nivrutti like certain number of members of assembly needed for the ruling party to continue in the Government!


A real Human incarnation preaches the divine knowledge to complete His duty on this earth.
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« Reply #826 on: November 24, 2010, 03:03:57 AM »

Oh! Rev. Fr. Irish Hermit ;

Oh! Rev. Fr. Irish Hermit . In Bible you find Jesus often addressing the priests, who controlled masses and even the Government officials. Therefore, you are essential agents for propagating the spiritual knowledge in the masses. If you are covered, all the public is covered. The huge public cannot be approached directly. Therefore, all the human incarnations of Lord that came down who preach the spiritual knowledge to the entire humanity contacted only these priests cum spiritual preachers.

When a marketing manager of mutual funds visits a town for the investments, he conducts a meeting with the agents of that town. If the agents are convinced, the investors in the town are captured. Even if the marketing manager approaches some investor, the agent is necessary while contacting the investor. The reason is that the agent is always in contact with the investor and the investor bends finally to the agent only due to personal and continuous contact. The agent has influence on the psychology of the investor due to continuous contact.

Of-course some elite investors may directly contact the marketing manager and learn about the various schemes and may directly invest with the help of the marketing manager only without the agent. But such cases are rare. The investors in mass come only through agents. In the simile the human incarnation is the marketing manager and the agents are the Brahmin priests cum spiritual preachers. The investors are the entire humanity. Sankara and Jesus always debated with these priests.

Sankara and Jesus always argued and criticized the priests for their defects. The psychology of a child or an ignorant person is that he does not like the continuous criticism. But Sankara and Jesus were eager in the welfare of the humanity and were vigorous in transforming the priests. In fact such transformation helps not only the humanity but also the priests. The ignorant priests did not like such vigorous criticism and therefore Sankara was killed by the black magic of a priest and the priests crucified Jesus.

The psychology of a child or an ignorant person is similar, which does not like continuous and severe criticism. But from the angle of the teacher such criticism shows eagerness of the teacher in the welfare of the student. The father of a Sanskrit poet called Bharavi was continuously criticising his son where as the public was appreciating. One day Bharavi decided to kill his father. But while Bharavi was hearing secretly, his father was explaining to his mother that the father should never appreciate his son.

 Sastra says that if father appreciates the son, the longevity of the son is reduced. What does this mean? If father appreciates the son he will be easily captured by pride and egoism. Then the fall comes quickly. If the father appreciates, the son will think that the appreciation must be true because it comes from the mouth of the father. Therefore, a real well-wisher looks at the defects only but the psychology of the other side does not permit. Therefore, the preaching must be from both the angles, which are the eagerness for transformation of the student and also from the angle of the psychology of the ignorant student. Therefore, criticism must be always mixed with appreciation. In Gita you find Lord Krishna appreciating Arjuna here and there while preaching. The parents should follow such path only regarding their children. Therefore, I am adopting the same mixture-technology in advising you. In fact the Lord always adopts this mixture-technology.

But why Sankara and Jesus adopted the severe path of criticism? They were also incarnations of Lord. The reason is that the situations were serious. When the defects reach climax and the priests were fully blind, such path was essential. Suppose your son is blind in wrong path, will you not be serious and criticize severely? But now the situation is not so serious because at least some of you have open mind and are prepared for transformation. Some of you have come to Me with appreciation and wanted to hear Me further. Some of you have expressed apology and stated that whatever happened was due to the ignorance of the truth. But in the time of Jesus all attacked Him vehemently because they were all completely blind and rigid with full ignorance.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2010, 03:05:51 AM by dattaswami » Logged
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« Reply #827 on: November 24, 2010, 03:19:51 AM »

Some of you have come to Me with appreciation and wanted to hear Me further. Some of you have expressed apology and stated that whatever happened was due to the ignorance of the truth.
I am sorry for my ignorance, but why do you use capital letters when using the pronoun "Me"?
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« Reply #828 on: November 24, 2010, 04:07:13 AM »

Some of you have come to Me with appreciation and wanted to hear Me further. Some of you have expressed apology and stated that whatever happened was due to the ignorance of the truth.
I am sorry for my ignorance, but why do you use capital letters when using the pronoun "Me"?

God speaks through the Human incarnation.... It is God who speaks....the divine knowledge...hence Capital letter...
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« Reply #829 on: November 24, 2010, 04:09:13 AM »

===================================================================
Will we be worshipping Christ when we kiss your feet or your photo, or will we be worshipping the devil?
==================================================================

 If you try to make somebody to love you, you are the biggest fool.  Real love comes spontaneously and grows tremendously in spite of your terrible opposition.  If you try to generate and develop love in somebody’s heart, such love is not true.  How can you advertise about the process of loving you and the consequent gifts to be given by you? If somebody loves you, even if you discourage it by showing loss and misery, if still that soul is loving you prepared for loss and misery, that is the real love.  Shiva in disguise discouraged Parvati about her love to Him in several ways.  Therefore, God is always for establishing Pravrutti in the society, since it is the issue of love between souls and He is not involved in it.  He never tries for Nivrutti because it is the issue of love of souls towards Him.  
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« Reply #830 on: November 24, 2010, 04:26:06 AM »

Some of you have come to Me with appreciation and wanted to hear Me further. Some of you have expressed apology and stated that whatever happened was due to the ignorance of the truth.
I am sorry for my ignorance, but why do you use capital letters when using the pronoun "Me"?

God speaks through the Human incarnation.... It is God who speaks....the divine knowledge...hence Capital letter...
So when You are writing, it is God who is speaking through You, because You are the Human Incarnation? Is that what You are saying?
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« Reply #831 on: November 24, 2010, 04:43:34 AM »



So when You are writing, it is God who is speaking through You, because You are the Human Incarnation? Is that what You are saying?

I may be God in the human form like that Krishna
I may be the beloved son of God like that Jesus
I may be the messenger of God  like that Mohammed
But this divine knowledge is of God only, I am sure.
 
How does it matter whether I am God or His beloved son
Or His messenger? It is not the point of the hour
If you propagate this true knowledge, God is pleased
Therefore, I cannot stand between your self and God.
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« Reply #832 on: November 24, 2010, 04:48:04 AM »

So when You are writing, it is God who is speaking through You, because You are the Human Incarnation? Is that what You are saying?

I am that Dattatreya born to – sage Atri and mother Anasuya.
I came down from Sahya hill – to establish true spiritual knowledge.
I correct the spiritual preachers, - hence, My students are very few.
In that generation I had only – one student that was Adi Shankara.


The reason is not due to – the high standard of My knowledge.
The only reason is that – My knowledge is the naked truth always.


Truth is not liked by many, - only Maya (ignorance) attracts the masses here.
The gravel stones are plenty, - only one Kohinoor Diamond.
A school-teacher has hundreds of – students surrounding him,
They are always fond of biscuits – and sweets always.
They always like miracles– to fulfill selfish desires.

They like to use God for them, - not to use themselves for God.
Arjuna (a devotee of God)used God for his work, - he has no temple at all here,
Hanuman (a servant of God) used Himself for God’s work, – for Him many temples.
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« Reply #833 on: November 24, 2010, 04:53:26 AM »

Oh! Rev. Fr. Irish Hermit ;

Oh! Rev. Fr. Irish Hermit . In Bible you find Jesus often addressing the priests, who controlled masses and even the Government officials. Therefore, you are essential agents for propagating the spiritual knowledge in the masses. If you are covered, all the public is covered. The huge public cannot be approached directly. Therefore, all the human incarnations of Lord that came down who preach the spiritual knowledge to the entire humanity contacted only these priests cum spiritual preachers.
You are not Jesus, and Father Ambrose is not your subordinate.
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« Reply #834 on: November 24, 2010, 04:57:40 AM »

You are not Jesus, and Father Ambrose is not your subordinate.

 A duck is laying a golden egg every day.  You should take that egg and use it for your needs.  It is unnecessary for you whether the gold is present in its stomach or whether it is stealing the golden egg from outside and is giving to you. 

 You need not analyze Me to see God in My human body which is just like cutting the stomach of the duck, which becomes useless. 


 You may say that you want to worship God directly through the human form so that you can please the God since it is your absolute aim.  But I say that God is more pleased if you worship His real devotees.  If you worship the devotees God existing outside or existing in Me is more pleased than direct worship to Him.  His devotees are greater than Himself in His view. 

 A human incarnation may not be available always because of the complexity in the identification.  Therefore, worship My devotees who are really sacrificing through practical devotion in My divine mission.  If you worship Me you will reach abode of God which is the top most.  But if you worship My devotees you will reach the sixteenth upper world which is called Datta Sevaka Loka  which is topper than the top most Goloka (Goloka is above Brahmaloka).  Remember this point after My exit from this present human body.
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« Reply #835 on: November 24, 2010, 05:03:41 AM »

Some of you have come to Me with appreciation and wanted to hear Me further. Some of you have expressed apology and stated that whatever happened was due to the ignorance of the truth.
I am sorry for my ignorance, but why do you use capital letters when using the pronoun "Me"?

God speaks through the Human incarnation.... It is God who speaks....the divine knowledge...hence Capital letter...
How sick, vain, or evil are you to claim to be the human incarnation of God, and on par with Jesus Christ?   Please don't respond.  I already know the answer.
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« Reply #836 on: November 24, 2010, 05:07:42 AM »

You are not Jesus, and Father Ambrose is not your subordinate.

 A duck is laying a golden egg every day.  You should take that egg and use it for your needs.  It is unnecessary for you whether the gold is present in its stomach or whether it is stealing the golden egg from outside and is giving to you. 

 You need not analyze Me to see God in My human body which is just like cutting the stomach of the duck, which becomes useless. 


 You may say that you want to worship God directly through the human form so that you can please the God since it is your absolute aim.  But I say that God is more pleased if you worship His real devotees.  If you worship the devotees God existing outside or existing in Me is more pleased than direct worship to Him.  His devotees are greater than Himself in His view. 

 A human incarnation may not be available always because of the complexity in the identification.  Therefore, worship My devotees who are really sacrificing through practical devotion in My divine mission.  If you worship Me you will reach abode of God which is the top most.  But if you worship My devotees you will reach the sixteenth upper world which is called Datta Sevaka Loka  which is topper than the top most Goloka (Goloka is above Brahmaloka).  Remember this point after My exit from this present human body.
Complete and utter bull feathers.
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« Reply #837 on: November 24, 2010, 05:07:56 AM »

You are not Jesus, and Father Ambrose is not your subordinate.

 A duck is laying a golden egg every day.  You should take that egg and use it for your needs.  It is unnecessary for you whether the gold is present in its stomach or whether it is stealing the golden egg from outside and is giving to you. 

 You need not analyze Me to see God in My human body which is just like cutting the stomach of the duck, which becomes useless. 


 You may say that you want to worship God directly through the human form so that you can please the God since it is your absolute aim.  But I say that God is more pleased if you worship His real devotees.  If you worship the devotees God existing outside or existing in Me is more pleased than direct worship to Him.  His devotees are greater than Himself in His view. 

 A human incarnation may not be available always because of the complexity in the identification.  Therefore, worship My devotees who are really sacrificing through practical devotion in My divine mission.  If you worship Me you will reach abode of God which is the top most.  But if you worship My devotees you will reach the sixteenth upper world which is called Datta Sevaka Loka  which is topper than the top most Goloka (Goloka is above Brahmaloka).  Remember this point after My exit from this present human body.
So, people are supposed to worship You? How would they accomplish that?
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« Reply #838 on: November 24, 2010, 05:09:06 AM »

How sick, vain, or evil are you to claim to be the human incarnation of God, and on par with Jesus Christ?   Please don't respond.  I already know the answer.

The force of ignorance injected by the blind traditional priests and incomplete scholars cannot push them into the kingdom of God due to incomplete correct knowledge or complete wrong knowledge. The incomplete wrong knowledge is better than complete wrong knowledge relatively. Either you will go up to some stage in the divine path or you will go in the opposite direction.

 You can reach the ultimate goal in the spiritual path only by the complete correct knowledge given by human form of God directly. The knowledge given by the past human forms of God is complete and correct but the subsequent misinterpretations mask it and confuse you. The divine knowledge from the present human incarnation is complete and correct without misinterpretations since you are directly clarifying all your doubts from God.
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« Reply #839 on: November 24, 2010, 05:12:27 AM »


So, people are supposed to worship You? How would they accomplish that?

God comes down only to establish the peace and harmony in the society and not to encourage devotees for Nivrutti (serving Him), which is His personal affair. In fact, He is not interested in Nivrutti and only when few diamonds (devotees) are rigid in Nivrutti, He still discourages Nivrutti by showing no fruit for Nivrutti. After all, the final fruit for Nivrutti is only continuous service of God like a slave! If you still argue that such service is highest bliss for you and cling to it only, He grants it in unavoidable situation only.  Brahmaloka is only a place of such slaves of God and no facilities exist there!  

God created heaven with all extreme luxuries for the people who follow justice in Pravrutti and closed the entire spectrum of knowledge with that only.  Nivrutti is investigated and invented by devotees only and was not announced by God at anytime.  God announced Himself as Father of heaven only in scriptures of all other religions.  Only in India, in Hinduism, devotees due to extra intelligence, called as sages, like Sanaka, Sanandana etc., only invented Nivrutti and God became helpless in the final stage because devotees were rigid in that line in spite of His hectic opposition.

 The real bliss of the true love exist only in such path of Nivrutti.  When somebody loves you and becomes rigid in his or her love to you, in-spite of your hectic opposition, such love is real and the real bliss comes to you and also to the other side also in such path only.  Hence, Nivrutti is justified with such specific nature only.  If you take the case of any devotee in Nivrutti, you will find either negligence or opposition of God and the rigid devotion of the devotee standing firm and finally only the acceptance of God to such love happens.
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« Reply #840 on: November 24, 2010, 05:14:51 AM »


So, people are supposed to worship You? How would they accomplish that?

AGod comes down only to establish the peace and harmony in the society and not to encourage devotees for Nivrutti (serving Him), which is His personal affair. In fact, He is not interested in Nivrutti and only when few diamonds (devotees) are rigid in Nivrutti, He still discourages Nivrutti by showing no fruit for Nivrutti. After all, the final fruit for Nivrutti is only continuous service of God like a slave! If you still argue that such service is highest bliss for you and cling to it only, He grants it in unavoidable situation only.  Brahmaloka is only a place of such slaves of God and no facilities exist there! 

God created heaven with all extreme luxuries for the people who follow justice in Pravrutti and closed the entire spectrum of knowledge with that only.  Nivrutti is investigated and invented by devotees only and was not announced by God at anytime.  God announced Himself as Father of heaven only in scriptures of all other religions.   Only in India, in Hinduism, devotees due to extra intelligence, called as sages, like Sanaka, Sanandana etc., only invented Nivrutti and God became helpless in the final stage because devotees were rigid in that line in spite of His hectic opposition.

 The real bliss of the true love exist only in such path of Nivrutti.  When somebody loves you and becomes rigid in his or her love to you, in-spite of your hectic opposition, such love is real and the real bliss comes to you and also to the other side also in such path only.  Hence, Nivrutti is justified with such specific nature only.  If you take the case of any devotee in Nivrutti, you will find either negligence or opposition of God and the rigid devotion of the devotee standing firm and finally only the acceptance of God to such love happens.
Didja get that, stanley?  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #841 on: November 24, 2010, 05:23:30 AM »

Didja get that, stanley?  Roll Eyes

When GOd comes in human form He mainly preaches about loving others etc known as Pravrutti. Nivrutti is the personal loving service to God. God never encourage Nivrutti which is His personal service. People will misunderstand Him. The love to God in human form should come from devotees side. God will infact try to divert the faith of such devotees by severe tests,to see the strength in such love to Him.

Generally people misunderstand the path of Nivrutti and critisise God...!!!


Today the need for the majority in the society is to cut the unjust bonds and replace them by justified bonds.  The justified bonds have no strength to cut the unjust bonds because the unjust bonds already cut them.  Justice is already defeated by injustice and now again the same justice cannot defeat the injustice.  To cut the bond with injustice, most powerful bond with God can alone do it.  Now Nivrutti, which is the establishment of bond with God is needed in Pravrutti for everybody.  If the love to God cannot replace the injustice, at least fear to God is needed.  If the student is not studying due to love and respect to the teacher, at least the cane of teacher is required.  To establish bond with God or fear to God, the proof for the very basic existence of God is needed. 



In Pure Nivrutti, only miserable service is the fruit introduced to discourage the devotee.  God never teaches the pure Nivrutti to devotee.  The devotee comes by himself or herself to God for pure Nivrutti and does not go back in spite of hectic opposition from God. 
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« Reply #842 on: November 24, 2010, 05:33:40 AM »

Didja get that, stanley?  Roll Eyes
I am still looking. I can't seem to find the duck which lays the egg of solid gold. All the eggs which I have seen are quite fragile, break easily and they go bad after a while. 
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« Reply #843 on: November 24, 2010, 05:37:13 AM »


I am still looking. I can't seem to find the duck which lays the egg of solid gold. All the eggs which I have seen are quite fragile, break easily and they go bad after a while. 

Dont you think that God need your love and service?!! No. He do not need any service from you or worship from you.

His aim is your spiritual upliftment. For that He comes and preaches divine knowledge. He never encourages loving Him, serving Him etc. But very few top level devotees invented this path of Nivrutti in which they love and serve God continously for ever like servants...They are diamonds....not gravel stones......
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« Reply #844 on: November 24, 2010, 05:39:58 AM »

Didja get that, stanley?  Roll Eyes
I am still looking. I can't seem to find the duck which lays the egg of solid gold. All the eggs which I have seen are quite fragile, break easily and they go bad after a while. 

People always try to find the wrong side of any concept due to jealousy. If you are prepared to serve Him like a dog at His feet through total surrender, you are in the post of God. If you are attracted to the post of God, you will become the dog at His feet! Your attitude and the fruit are related in reverse way because the words God and dog are reverse! Except for the need in Pravrutti (justice of society), God would not like to preach Nivrutti to anybody since it appears as the projection of self by God.

The devotees trying for pure Nivrutti are always in minority and can be guided personally.

 But, today, even the majority needs the knowledge of Nivrutti so that the concept of God and becoming God in this life itself (Jeevanmukti) should be understood.  If the fear to God is established through invisible hell created by unimaginable God, that may serve the purpose of controlling injustice to certain extent.  But all do not fear, since some are careless criminals.  But they can be changed by the love to become God, which is Nivrutti.  Hence, there is a need of propagation of Nivrutti also for the sake of Pravrutti as done in Gita.
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« Reply #845 on: November 24, 2010, 05:46:01 AM »

If you are prepared to serve Him like a dog at His feet through total surrender, you are in the post of God. If you are attracted to the post of God, you will become the dog at His feet! Your attitude and the fruit are related in reverse way because the words God and dog are reverse!
That wouldn't work in Russia because in Russia the word for dog is Собака
and the word for God is Бог
Does that mean that your philosophy is restricted to work only in English speaking countries and is false where they speak a language other than English?
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« Reply #846 on: November 24, 2010, 05:55:51 AM »

If you are prepared to serve Him like a dog at His feet through total surrender, you are in the post of God. If you are attracted to the post of God, you will become the dog at His feet! Your attitude and the fruit are related in reverse way because the words God and dog are reverse!
That wouldn't work in Russia because in Russia the word for dog is Собака
and the word for God is Бог
Does that mean that your philosophy is restricted to work only in English speaking countries and is false where they speak a language other than English?

You have to take the inner meaning of the divine knowledge not word by word meaning. The basic concept is that, serving God is the greatest. Some people want to become God, they can never become God.


God is pleased by complete sacrifice and service to Him.....

The total surrender of your self is possible if you know that you are a tiny part of His movable property.  A goat is a part of the movable property of the butcher.  Every drop of the blood and every bit of the flesh is the property of the butcher only.  The butcher is going to enjoy the entire flesh and blood of the goat and therefore there is no individuality for the goat.

  Similarly, every atom of your gross body and every wave of the energy in your gross body belong to the God. All your qualities (subtle body) and your entire pure awareness (soul or causal body) belong to God only.  Hence, total surrender of your self is the complete justice (Tameva Sharanam Gachcha….Gita).  To signify this concept, the Lord is called as Pashupati or the owner of the souls, which are like the animals.

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« Reply #847 on: November 24, 2010, 06:01:46 AM »

People always try to find the wrong side of any concept due to jealousy.
Oh so untrue.  I, for example, always try to find the wrong side of any concept, but it isn't due to jealousy.
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« Reply #848 on: November 24, 2010, 06:09:16 AM »

People always try to find the wrong side of any concept due to jealousy.
Oh so untrue.  I, for example, always try to find the wrong side of any concept, but it isn't due to jealousy.

If God in human form says that follow Me then every body will get doubts how come an ordinary human being can say like that? How can such and such human being is God....

This all will happen when you really see the present human incarnation in front of you alive. You are now believing in Jesus. Very good. But Jesus is not with you in human form right now.

But those poor fishermen were great devotees of God since they recognised Jesus when He came in human form. They identified Jesus as God in human form; it is very very difficult to identify God in human form when He is alive, this is because jealosy and egoim in us generally repel other person's greatness.

It is very easy to believe in Jesus now, because He is not present in the current generation alive. It is very very difficult to identify and serve contemproary human incarnation...very very difficult....
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« Reply #849 on: November 24, 2010, 06:17:13 AM »

...very very difficult....
Difficult is as difficult does, I've always heard.
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« Reply #850 on: November 24, 2010, 07:00:34 AM »

...very very difficult....
Difficult is as difficult does, I've always heard.

 All the human incarnations have the single common point which is the spiritual guidance given to the human beings since that is the most important program.  Other factors like the physical form, dress, language, culture and composition of the three qualities are not important and variation occurs as you can see Jesus, Rama and Krishna.  Therefore, God is represented by this common characteristic of true spiritual knowledge only (Satyam Jnanamanantam Brahma…, Prajnanam Brahma…Veda; Jnanitvatmaiva….Gita).

  Even the liberated soul should be in constant awareness of the Lord and even if the liberated soul is made to sit on the throne of God, it should remember that the Lord is the kingmaker.  The wheel (Sudarshana Chakra) is always revolving around the finger of the Lord.  The revolutions indicate constantly that Sudarshana is zero only.  The finger of the Lord indicates the number one.  All the zeros placed after one get values only due to the existence of the number one behind them.  This must be the constant memory of the liberated soul even if it becomes the human incarnation.  If ego enters, it will fall down and Sudarshana was born as Kartavirya with ego and was killed by the Lord Parashurama in the war.  But Parashurama was also the human incarnation of a liberated soul only.  Again he committed the same mistake and Rama who was the original human incarnation of the God removed his ego.
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« Reply #851 on: November 24, 2010, 07:30:56 AM »

The revolutions indicate constantly that Sudarshana is zero only.  The finger of the Lord indicates the number one.  All the zeros placed after one get values only due to the existence of the number one behind them.
Is there a decimal point?  Are there finite significant digits, or does every new zero imply greater precision?
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« Reply #852 on: November 24, 2010, 07:48:30 AM »

The revolutions indicate constantly that Sudarshana is zero only.  The finger of the Lord indicates the number one.  All the zeros placed after one get values only due to the existence of the number one behind them.
Is there a decimal point?  Are there finite significant digits, or does every new zero imply greater precision?

This means that without God everything is useless. The aim of human life is to please God. God comes in human form so that you can do practical service to Him and serve Him in His mission...
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« Reply #853 on: November 24, 2010, 07:49:42 AM »

And what of the ducks?  What of those?
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« Reply #854 on: November 24, 2010, 10:11:40 AM »

And what of the ducks?  What of those?

God enters into a liberated soul (Son of God) for preaching and uplifting the human souls. Here the Son of God or the liberated soul is a slave to God and God speaks wonderful divine knowledge through HIs mouth and give credit to the Son of God. Son of GOd has fully surrendered to God and God likes SOn of God like anything...
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