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Author Topic: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism  (Read 107514 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #675 on: November 19, 2010, 12:04:45 PM »


Exactly Jesus is God, He came 2000 yrs ago, He comes now also in present time. He preaches wonderful divine knowledge. He is the only path. Practical service to present Jesus in human form alone is the way to please God. So start today itself loving and serving Jesus without expecating anything in return from Him for your service to Him....Start today...


What about service to the current incarnation of Buddha?   You never mention him and the other incarnations.  Why?

If you could locate the incarnation of Mohammed and the incarnation of Buddha, perhaps they could participate in something like one of those televised Oxford Debates.  Mohammed could speak about God's pleasure that non-Muslims ought to be killed if they do not convert, and the Buddha could present his teaching of pacifism and non-violence.
We'd have to up security--Buddha would be a sitting duck.  Grin
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« Reply #676 on: November 19, 2010, 12:44:29 PM »

Venu, if you were God, you wouldn't make ridiculous statements about your Church.  Do yourself a favor, and learn about Orthodox Christianity.
 

In nut shell your basic belief says that God descended in human form as Jesus to guide you in spiritual path. You become a follower of Jesus after Baptism ritual. I can become a follower of Jesus without any baptism also.

I can read the gospel of Jesus and understand His message. You resepect Jesus and worship Him. It is very good. Such prayers will be heard no doubt. Such prayers are definitely heard. There is no doubt in it. Not only the prayers to past human incarnations, God even hears if you pray to a symbolic representation of God also. But, what is the fruit for the prayer? A prayer cannot bring any fruit. Actual practical action only gives you the fruit. Practical action is meaningful only in the case of present alive human incarnation.

 If you serve the God, God receives the fruit of your service only through present alive Human incarnation but not by past human incarnation. If you press the feet of an idol or statue, am I pressing God’s feet directly? Even when you serve the past human incarnation by pressing the feet of its idol, only idol receives the service but not the past human incarnation. But, idol is lifeless and not the actual Human incarnation because He is not in the alive form. Therefore, the service done in the case of alive human incarnation alone directly goes to God.

Praying the past human incarnation is not wrong. All these prayers bring only inspiration. Inspiration is necessary for action. But, action should be done to the alive present human incarnation. Praying past human incarnation is right but it is not complete.
Well, that pretty much sums it up, doesn't it?  Don't venerate icons of Jesus Christ or pray to Him.  Worship you instead.  A 'yes' or 'no' answer would suffice (but that would be too much to ask).  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #677 on: November 19, 2010, 01:17:12 PM »

Of course, He has given eternal life to all who will receive it. Abiding in Him is to abide in love, faith, & hope, obeying His will to pray, fast & give alms as salvific as well as natural aids to others,  confessing our sins as we live,and at least pray the Lord of the harvest for laborers for the salvation of others.

Thanks for your adivce i will try to do what you say. You all are very open minded and love Jesus like anything. I appreciate your love to Jesus which is very very nice.

But one point there is some lacking....

Practical love on Jesus is not proved....

All your love is theoretical only...

No practical love is exihibited to Jesus...

You can never serve an invisible Jesus, even though you may say that your love to JESUS very very huge...

You love is not proved in practice...

Hence Jesus comes in human form to receive your service which proves your love to Him practically...
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« Reply #678 on: November 19, 2010, 01:33:44 PM »


Exactly Jesus is God, He came 2000 yrs ago, He comes now also in present time. He preaches wonderful divine knowledge. He is the only path. Practical service to present Jesus in human form alone is the way to please God. So start today itself loving and serving Jesus without expecating anything in return from Him for your service to Him....Start today...


What about service to the current incarnation of Buddha?   You never mention him and the other incarnations.  Why?

If you could locate the incarnation of Mohammed and the incarnation of Buddha, perhaps they could participate in something like one of those televised Oxford Debates.  Mohammed could speak about God's pleasure that non-Muslims ought to be killed if they do not convert, and the Buddha could present his teaching of pacifism and non-violence.

Very good question.

I really appreciate your analysing mind... God is searching for people like you who could analyse His divine knoweldge and understand the knowledge. All the past human incarnations are present in the Present Huamn form of God.

Present human form of God is Jesus=Mohammad=Bhudha=Krishna etc.........

There is only one God. The same God came in different human incarnations. The same God. Not different Gods. The same God came in various forms, to tackle various issues of the generation to uplift the human souls at different places, to different cultures and at different point of time. The same God existed in them all...........


When God came us Jesus His object was to uplift common people to the level of devotees. Common people were quarreling each other, killing each other etc  through Jesus God preached even love your own enemies also. By such preaching Jesus brought those cruel hearted people to alteast believe in God and start the spiritual journey. Such preaching which maintains Justice in the soceity is known as 'Pravrutti'. Here God concetrate on bringing people to jutice level, by preaching the right way of bevaviour to other human beings in the soceity. This is one aspect. When God preaches such concept He will never tell that He is God in human form to common people. Becuase His task is to bring such people to a level of devotee first. If God in human form tell that He is God Himself then such ordinary people cannot digest the preaching and will mistake Him as satan.

To avoid all these and to properly uplift the common people to a level of justice and hence to bring peace in the soceity at large, Jesus preached Pravrutti. By such preaching even cruel hearted people repented and started loving even their enemies and peace is established to a large extent even after Jesus exit from the world.

Now you have understood about PRAVRUTTI.

Now let us understand about Nivrutti or the Path of Liberation.

God in human form preaches Nivrutti to very close devotees who are really eligible for His divine knowledge. Jesus's disciples were certainly eligible for such knowledge due to their real interest and love on God. To them Jesus preached in secret the highest divine knowledge that He is GOd Himself and if one want salvation then one should follow Him and practically participate in His mission of divine knowledge propagation without any selfish desire. This He preached only to the eligible and by such preaching when followed practically, gives salvation since a living God is available to receive your service to Him and thus your love to Him is proved PRACTICALLY then and there itself, since practially you have to cut all your blind love with family, wealth even self to be dear and near to God in human form. It is very very narrow path and 1-in-million only tries this.



Thus in Jesus we can see that He preached both Pravrutti and NIVRUTTI also.

When the same God who existed in Jesus came as Mohammad, the situation worsened further. Then God has to preach that He is only a messenger through the mouth of Mohammad and if you see He never preached that He is God Himself, because God wanted to maintain peace in the society by preaching PRAVRUTTI. Hence God kept mum about Nivrutti.

When God came as Bhudha, there were lot of atheists in that part of the world. Atheist donot believe in God,. thus Bhudha in troduced the concept of social service so that these atheist at least follow justice in the society. Bhudha never preached Nivrutti that He is God Himself.

When the same God came as Krishna He preached both Pravrutti and Nivrutti. He told He is God Himself to a very dear devotee named ARJUNA.

And God through the mouth of Krishna told wonderful divine knowledge GITA.

Thus God came many many times to address specific issues in the spiritual upliftment....
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« Reply #679 on: November 19, 2010, 01:34:33 PM »

Of course, He has given eternal life to all who will receive it. Abiding in Him is to abide in love, faith, & hope, obeying His will to pray, fast & give alms as salvific as well as natural aids to others,  confessing our sins as we live,and at least pray the Lord of the harvest for laborers for the salvation of others.

Thanks for your adivce i will try to do what you say. You all are very open minded and love Jesus like anything. I appreciate your love to Jesus which is very very nice.

But one point there is some lacking....

Practical love on Jesus is not proved....

All your love is theoretical only...

No practical love is exihibited to Jesus...

You can never serve an invisible Jesus, even though you may say that your love to JESUS very very huge...

You love is not proved in practice...

Hence Jesus comes in human form to receive your service which proves your love to Him practically...

No, what we do unto the least of His brethren we do unto Him.
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« Reply #680 on: November 19, 2010, 01:47:29 PM »

Hinduism
The Power of the Pagan Gods


Hinduism's Assault
Upon Christianity

By Hieromonk Seraphim Rose

http://www.orthodoxcentral.com/fatheralexander/unzippedfiles/hinduism_e.doc


The real struggle lies in this: that the ultimate sin for the Christian, is the ultimate realization of good for the Hindu. Christians have always acknowledged pride as the basic sin — the fountainhead of all sin. And Lucifer is the archetype when he says. “I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God. I will ascend above the clouds; I will be like the Most High.” On a lower level, it is pride that turns even man's virtues into sins.

But for the Hindu in general, and the Advaitin or Vedantan in particular, the only “sin” is not to believe in yourself and in Humanity as God Himself. In the words of Swami Vivekananda (who was the foremost modern advocate of Vedanta): “You do not yet understand India! We Indians are Man‑worshippers after all. Our God is Man!” The doctrine of mukti or salvation consists in this: that “Man is to become Divine by realizing the Divine.”

From this one can see the dogmas of Hinduism and Christianity standing face to face, each defying the other on the nature of God, the nature of man and the purpose of human existence.


I believe you will read the following....



I have to correct you here. Swami Vivekanada was not God in human form, but he was a saint and a greatest disciple of then HUMAN INCARNATION, SHRI RAMA KRISHNA PARMA HAMSA. Rama Krishna Parama Hamsa was the God in human form. His knowledge was the real divine knoweldge.

I request you to just read some of His saying.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rls/rls25.htm



OK. Let us come to the issue, that there are a group of followers called ADVAITINS who believe that every body is God and one has just to realise it by putting spiritual effort. God in human form never tell that every body is God. He will tell, you can treat others as God so that you will love all the poeple and thus the peace in the society will be maintained if one keep such attitude. This is what the second commandment says: One has to love others as himself.. This is known as PRAVRUTTI. The highest path is called Nivrutti, Loving God more than anything or anybody in this world PRACTICALLY....

The path followed by Advaitins is called self realisation. By self realisation one will cuts ones all worldly bonds and attachment and one will realise that one is not this outer gross body but pure awareness or soul in its purest form without any qualities. Thus by self realisation one will get lot of peace. But that state is not God. Self realisation is not God realisation.

Self realisation is an intermediate step towards GOd realisation. God realisation means identifying the God in human form of your generation and serving and pleasing Him without any expecation by really loving Him. If every body is GOd then what is the necessity of the spiritual effort. Every body is not God. Only God in human form is GOd since God exists in Him all the time. If every body is GOd then every body would have spoken the divine knoweldge, since God is in them, but no body speak divine knoweldge other than the God in human form of your generation. Hence all are God; the argument by the Advaitins are wrong and false.

A human incarnation Adi Shankara proved this.

When the disciples of Sankara thought that they are also the Lord, Sankara swallowed the molten lead and asked the disciples to do the same. Then they fell on the feet of Sankara. Then Sankara told "Shivah Kevaloham", which means that only He is Shiva. The word Kevala (only) is important here. Sankara while taking bath in the ocean at Puri told "Oh! Lord! Though the qualitative identity is in between us, the quantitative difference exists. The water is common in both the sea and the wave like the pure awareness in the soul and super soul.

 But the quantitative difference exists and one should not forget that the entire wave is in the sea but the entire sea is not in the wave". This is stated as a message for the sake of ordinary soul. These Advaita Scholars filter all the differentiating points and finally get the common point filtered down into the beaker as the filtrate. The differentiating points are the residue on the filter paper and the filtered common point is in the downward beaker. They see only the beaker but not the filter paper. Therefore, the whole spiritual path is twisted and confused almost all the human beings.

Thus human incarnation alone is God since God is in Him all the time when He is alive in this world.

Swami Vivekanada a saint, preached about self realisation to bring peace in the soceity. which is the first step in the spiritual journey. But self realisation is not God realisation, even though you will get lot of peace by that. ...

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« Reply #681 on: November 19, 2010, 01:52:28 PM »

But self realisation is not God realisation, even though you will get lot of peace by that. ...

We're not looking for self-peace or realizations. That's spiritual gluttony. We're looking for love and communion, with the Holy Trinity and with mankind.
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« Reply #682 on: November 19, 2010, 01:57:05 PM »


No, what we do unto the least of His brethren we do unto Him.

That is very correct. God is pleased very much if you serve a real devotee of God. If you give food to a real devotee of God, really you have served God. If you have helped finacially a struggling real devotee of God, you have pleased GOD.

First one has to search human incarnation of your generation and serve Him. If you are not finding Him, then serve an eligible devotee, since when you serve such devotees God become very happy....

When St. Mother Mary served her aunt, Elizabeth, the child in the womb was jumping with happiness, because Elizabth was also a saint since she was going to give birth to St. John the Baptist. Here Mother Mary hereself a great devotee of God, served another devotee of God to show the example to us to serve other devotees really...



Jesus when dying asked St. John to take care of His mother MARY , a great devotee...

Thus if you really serve an eligible devotee you are pleasing God.

One should be very careful in taking the spiritual knowledge (Jnanam) from the preacher and should be equally careful in giving money to a poor fellow.  You should analyze the preacher and also the poor fellow.  If the preacher is not correct, the wrong spiritual knowledge will destroy the soul forever.  If the poor fellow is with bad qualities, your donation will bring you sin.  Therefore, Jnanam (Spiritual Knowledge) and Danam (Donating money) are to be done carefully after deep analysis only. Otherwise, instead of good results, bad results are inevitable.
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« Reply #683 on: November 19, 2010, 02:00:34 PM »

But self realisation is not God realisation, even though you will get lot of peace by that. ...

We're not looking for self-peace or realizations. That's spiritual gluttony. We're looking for love and communion, with the Holy Trinity and with mankind.

Why are you not understanding my replies!!

What i mentioned is that, there is a group of people who adopt the path of 'self realsation' in which they say that every body is God, but it is needed just to realise it by spiritual effort. By self realisation one will get immense happiness, since one is cut from the world completely and detached from all worldly relationship and attachment. But that is not GOd realisation. Bliss which we get from God in human form is far supperior that the peace one get by self realisation. Evey body is not God, only GOd in human form is God, since God exists in Him all the time and preaches divine knowledge to uplift the human souls...
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« Reply #684 on: November 19, 2010, 02:01:00 PM »


No, what we do unto the least of His brethren we do unto Him.

That is very correct. God is pleased very much if you serve a real devotee of God. If you give food to a real devotee of God, really you have served God. If you have helped finacially a struggling real devotee of God, you have pleased GOD.

First one has to search human incarnation of your generation and serve Him. If you are not finding Him, then serve an eligible devotee, since when you serve such devotees God become very happy....

When St. Mother Mary served her aunt, Elizabeth, the child in the womb was jumping with happiness, because Elizabth was also a saint since she was going to give birth to St. John the Baptist. Here Mother Mary hereself a great devotee of God, served another devotee of God to show the example to us to serve other devotees really...



Jesus when dying asked St. John to take care of His mother MARY , a great devotee...

Thus if you really serve an eligible devotee you are pleasing God.

One should be very careful in taking the spiritual knowledge (Jnanam) from the preacher and should be equally careful in giving money to a poor fellow.  You should analyze the preacher and also the poor fellow.  If the preacher is not correct, the wrong spiritual knowledge will destroy the soul forever.  If the poor fellow is with bad qualities, your donation will bring you sin.  Therefore, Jnanam (Spiritual Knowledge) and Danam (Donating money) are to be done carefully after deep analysis only. Otherwise, instead of good results, bad results are inevitable.

No, not just a devotee, anybody, including His enemies. They must all be loved.
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« Reply #685 on: November 19, 2010, 02:04:41 PM »

No, not just a devotee, anybody, including His enemies. They must all be loved.

OK again you have opened up a good area for discussion.

Social service if you do without divine back ground then you will err. I will explain it. Have patience to read it and ask me if you are not following it properly.

People often say that Service to man is Service to God.  This is a very dangerous statement if it is not properly understood.  Service does not mean simply giving food, clothes, medicines etc., to suffering poor and needy people.  That poor person is suffering due to the punishment given by God due to his bad deeds.  You have not seen his past deeds but you are showing sympathy on him at present.  Your help is only temporary.  Make him a devotee by imparting knowledge.  Then the Lord will help him and that help is permanent.  So the word “service” should not be limited to donating food etc., In such case after receiving your help he may do sins which you have to share.

 So convert him into a devotee by donating knowledge so that he becomes a devotee, to get personal help from the Lord and also helps others.  Since this is the work of the God, such service of yours’ becomes God’s service.  Donate knowledge and devotion, even for the wealthy people.  Poor did not mean lack of money only.  Poor means lack of knowledge and devotion also. Actually the original sense of this statement is different.  When the Lord comes in the human form, he appears as a man.  You have to detect him by his inherent quality that is blissful knowledge.  When you serve such a man your service becomes God’s service because that man is God. 
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« Reply #686 on: November 19, 2010, 02:05:12 PM »

Why are you not understanding my replies!!

Because your posts are incoherent and usually avoid answering the questions that have been posed. Why aren't you reading our posts?
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« Reply #687 on: November 19, 2010, 02:10:58 PM »

No, not just a devotee, anybody, including His enemies. They must all be loved.

OK again you have opened up a good area for discussion.

Social service if you do without divine back ground then you will err. I will explain it. Have patience to read it and ask me if you are not following it properly.

People often say that Service to man is Service to God.  This is a very dangerous statement if it is not properly understood.  Service does not mean simply giving food, clothes, medicines etc., to suffering poor and needy people.  That poor person is suffering due to the punishment given by God due to his bad deeds.  You have not seen his past deeds but you are showing sympathy on him at present.  Your help is only temporary.  Make him a devotee by imparting knowledge.  Then the Lord will help him and that help is permanent.  So the word “service” should not be limited to donating food etc., In such case after receiving your help he may do sins which you have to share.

 So convert him into a devotee by donating knowledge so that he becomes a devotee, to get personal help from the Lord and also helps others.  Since this is the work of the God, such service of yours’ becomes God’s service.  Donate knowledge and devotion, even for the wealthy people.  Poor did not mean lack of money only.  Poor means lack of knowledge and devotion also. Actually the original sense of this statement is different.  When the Lord comes in the human form, he appears as a man.  You have to detect him by his inherent quality that is blissful knowledge.  When you serve such a man your service becomes God’s service because that man is God. 

Yes, Spiritual mercies are even more important than corporeal mercies.

Quote

That poor person is suffering due to the punishment given by God due to his bad deeds.


So the Apostles suffered as punishment for bad deeds in a past life?

And if it's God's will to punish them for their sins, and I am supposed to become god, then why am I giving these people undeserved help?
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« Reply #688 on: November 19, 2010, 02:33:32 PM »


Yes, Spiritual mercies are even more important than corporeal mercies.

So the Apostles suffered as punishment for bad deeds in a past life?

And if it's God's will to punish them for their sins, and I am supposed to become god, then why am I giving these people undeserved help?

Social service should be done with divine back ground. Social service is not bad.

I will give an example. As a part of social service one day you have decided to give food some poeple. You opened a stall and prepared food, and allowed people to come to you and eat. Now lot of poor people come and eat and go. Suppose in one of them one was a criminal and after eating your food he got full strength and went way and killed another person. NOw since you are given food indiscriminately to all people and your serving food is not associated with any divine knoweldge preaching, an undeserving criminal has received your food and inturn he killed a person to rob him. Thus indirectly you are responsible for that killing, hence along with criminal you will also be punished.


Thus only by directive from God you should indulge in social service.

Mere social service without the divine mission is useless

Mere social service without the divine mission is useless. Infact such social service will make God angry. The reason is that any human being is suffering here due to his sins. The Lord has punished him and the punishment is meant to change him and not for vengeance. Interference in the punishment disturbs the divine administration. But if you help them in the name of the Lord, and try to convert them into devotees, it will help them in their transformation, which is the actual goal of the punishment. In that case, the Lord will be pleased with you.


As regard to the sins of Apostles, let us analyse. Jesus died for sins of people. That means people have done sins and they have to be saved from sin by suffering by Jesus in their behaves.

Orthodox christianity, believes that all are born with an original sin. How that sin came? Without doing any action prior to that no sin can come. THis means that we have come to the present existence after many birth and already we have debt of sin in our account.

THe disciples underwent troubles for God's mission not for their sins. Jesus Himself underwent trouble and pain.Is Jesus a sinner. NOt not at all. Jesus underwent misery for His devotees. His disciples also underwent for the propagation of divine knowledge in that process they underwent suffering. NOt for their personal needs. They were not enjoing with family etc sitting at home. They went outside leaving family and worked for the upliftment of the society in the name of God hence they are great devotees of GOd and their suffering is for God's mission sake and they are viewed highly in the eyes of GOd and are blessed ones..
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« Reply #689 on: November 19, 2010, 02:40:11 PM »

(Emphasis mine.)
I will give an example. As a part of social service one day you have decided to give food some poeple. You opened a stall and prepared food, and allowed people to come to you and eat. Now lot of poor people come and eat and go. Suppose in one of them one was a criminal and after eating your food he got full strength and went way and killed another person. NOw since you are given food indiscriminately to all people and your serving food is not associated with any divine knoweldge preaching, an undeserving criminal has received your food and inturn he killed a person to rob him. Thus indirectly you are responsible for that killing, hence along with criminal you will also be punished.

You're claiming divine knowledge, and then directly contradicting scripture?  You're trying to lead people astray, trying to divide the flock.  The words in bold represent demonic preaching.
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« Reply #690 on: November 19, 2010, 02:42:08 PM »

People have done sins and they have to be saved from sin by suffering by Jesus in their behaves.

Orthodox christianity, believes that all are born with an original sin. How that sin came? Without doing any action prior to that no sin can come. THis means that we have come to the present existence after many birth and already we have debt of sin in our account.

You have to do more research. Roman Catholics and Protestants would say this, but Orthodox have a very different interpretation of what Jesus' substitutionary suffering meant and what "original sin" is. It is not what you are saying.
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« Reply #691 on: November 19, 2010, 02:54:07 PM »


You're claiming divine knowledge, and then directly contradicting scripture?  You're trying to lead people astray, trying to divide the flock.  The words in bold represent demonic preaching.

This is the problem you are not understanding the divine knoweldge again.

What is preached is that, your social service should be to the deserving devotees who need help. If you social service without divine knowledge propagation or preaching devotion to the person whom you helped then your social service is a waste.

Mother Theresa did social service along with divine knowledge introduction....
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« Reply #692 on: November 19, 2010, 02:54:59 PM »

People have done sins and they have to be saved from sin by suffering by Jesus in their behaves.

Orthodox christianity, believes that all are born with an original sin. How that sin came? Without doing any action prior to that no sin can come. THis means that we have come to the present existence after many birth and already we have debt of sin in our account.

You have to do more research. Roman Catholics and Protestants would say this, but Orthodox have a very different interpretation of what Jesus' substitutionary suffering meant and what "original sin" is. It is not what you are saying.

What ever may be then you belive that every body has original sin by birth and during baptism it is washed off.

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« Reply #693 on: November 19, 2010, 02:55:58 PM »

(Emphasis mine.)
I will give an example. As a part of social service one day you have decided to give food some poeple. You opened a stall and prepared food, and allowed people to come to you and eat. Now lot of poor people come and eat and go. Suppose in one of them one was a criminal and after eating your food he got full strength and went way and killed another person. NOw since you are given food indiscriminately to all people and your serving food is not associated with any divine knoweldge preaching, an undeserving criminal has received your food and inturn he killed a person to rob him. Thus indirectly you are responsible for that killing, hence along with criminal you will also be punished.

You're claiming divine knowledge, and then directly contradicting scripture?  You're trying to lead people astray, trying to divide the flock.  The words in bold represent demonic preaching.

Some social workers without devotion to God (good politicians) sacrifice selfishness.  Such people reach temporary heaven only.  They will not reach the eternal abode of God. Mother Theresa did social service as a part of divine mission and reached the abode of God.
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« Reply #694 on: November 19, 2010, 02:58:16 PM »


You're claiming divine knowledge, and then directly contradicting scripture?  You're trying to lead people astray, trying to divide the flock.  The words in bold represent demonic preaching.

Once, a lady was worshipping Jesus by applying a costly scent to Him. A disciple of Jesus criticized this and stated that the cost of the scent would have been spent for feeding the beggars. Jesus condemned the disciple and accepted her service. The reason for such personal service is that she is in the path of Nivrutti. She desires only the Lord and is not interested in the social service. The followers of Nivrutti will even leave the justice for the sake of the Lord (Sarvadharman—Gita). Such souls reach the permanent divine abode of the Lord. One cannot compare Jesus with a rich man who is also enjoying a similar service. The rich man is not God and he has to please the Lord. The final goal is not his selfish pleasure. In the case of Jesus there is no other God whom he should please. The service done to Jesus protected that lady in this world as well as in the upper world. But the service done to the rich man cannot protect anybody.

Once a rich man approached Jesus and asked for his future duty in order to enter the Heaven. Jesus told him that he should give away all his money to the beggars. Jesus did not ask him to bring costly scent to be applied to Him. The rich man belongs to the level of Pravrutti and is interested in his personal upliftment and personal enjoyment in the heaven. He is not interested in Lord Jesus. Thus the Pravrutti and Nivrutti should be differentiated. The ignorant people who are unaware of this difference will mistake Jesus to be fond of the application of the scent by the tender hand of a beautiful lady.
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« Reply #695 on: November 19, 2010, 03:01:35 PM »

(Emphasis mine.)
I will give an example. As a part of social service one day you have decided to give food some poeple. You opened a stall and prepared food, and allowed people to come to you and eat. Now lot of poor people come and eat and go. Suppose in one of them one was a criminal and after eating your food he got full strength and went way and killed another person. NOw since you are given food indiscriminately to all people and your serving food is not associated with any divine knoweldge preaching, an undeserving criminal has received your food and inturn he killed a person to rob him. Thus indirectly you are responsible for that killing, hence along with criminal you will also be punished.

You're claiming divine knowledge, and then directly contradicting scripture?  You're trying to lead people astray, trying to divide the flock.  The words in bold represent demonic preaching.

donation to undeserving will bring sin

Donation is very dangerous like double edged knife. Donating to undeserving persons is very big sin and not mere wastage. Today, if you see the feast of a marriage function, you will find most of the plates after feast are full of food items leftover. When you throw this food, it becomes a source for bacteria and virus, which may harm even good people in the society. Thus, the people, who have thrown the food, become sinners. The owner of feast, who gave this expensive food to them is also another sinner and will be punished by the divine law.

Both doer and promoter are equally punished (Kartha karaiyitaa chaiva...). Finally the married couple is also affected. Veda says that even a single particle of the food should not be wasted (Annamna parichakshita...). Once, in a function, the people were wasting food and the beggars on the other side were searching for the food in the leaves thrown away after the feast.

One devotee asked Bhagavan Shri Satya Sai Baba like this, “O Swami! What is this! In your creation I find people throwing food on one side and people searching for the thrown food on the other side”. Bhagavan Baba replied “Those beggars were also rich in the previous birth and threw the food like these rich people. They are now born as beggars and are searching for the food thrown by them in the past”. Therefore, the minimum eligibility of the receiver of food is: not to throw even an iota of food.
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« Reply #696 on: November 19, 2010, 03:03:43 PM »

No, not just a devotee, anybody, including His enemies. They must all be loved.

OK again you have opened up a good area for discussion.

Social service if you do without divine back ground then you will err. I will explain it. Have patience to read it and ask me if you are not following it properly.

People often say that Service to man is Service to God.  This is a very dangerous statement if it is not properly understood.  Service does not mean simply giving food, clothes, medicines etc., to suffering poor and needy people.  That poor person is suffering due to the punishment given by God due to his bad deeds.  You have not seen his past deeds but you are showing sympathy on him at present.  Your help is only temporary.  Make him a devotee by imparting knowledge.  Then the Lord will help him and that help is permanent.  So the word “service” should not be limited to donating food etc., In such case after receiving your help he may do sins which you have to share.

 So convert him into a devotee by donating knowledge so that he becomes a devotee, to get personal help from the Lord and also helps others.  Since this is the work of the God, such service of yours’ becomes God’s service.  Donate knowledge and devotion, even for the wealthy people.  Poor did not mean lack of money only.  Poor means lack of knowledge and devotion also. Actually the original sense of this statement is different.  When the Lord comes in the human form, he appears as a man.  You have to detect him by his inherent quality that is blissful knowledge.  When you serve such a man your service becomes God’s service because that man is God. 

Yes, Spiritual mercies are even more important than corporeal mercies.

Quote

That poor person is suffering due to the punishment given by God due to his bad deeds.


So the Apostles suffered as punishment for bad deeds in a past life?

And if it's God's will to punish them for their sins, and I am supposed to become god, then why am I giving these people undeserved help?

You are suffering due to your own actions only


The reason for misery or happiness is only your action that was already done. The Gita says that the actions are very very subtle (Gahana Karmano Gatih…). I will give you a small example. While eating food, suppose a piece of chilly is left over in your plate. When it is thrown outside, it decays and lot of virus and bacteria are generated. Suppose, such virus affects the health of a good devotee who is involved in the mission of Lord; this has become the greatest sin based on the smallest piece of chilly. Your health will be affected severely. Therefore, the Veda says “Annam Na Parichakshita”, which means that even an iota (Iota is denoted by the prefix pari) of food should not be thrown out. Either you should eat the piece of chilly or use the powder of chilies in cooking the food.

You can imagine the fate of the priests who throw lot of food in the death rituals stating that throwing food indicates their full satisfaction! This shows that we cannot avoid sins which are so subtle that easily escape our attention. You have to enjoy the fruits of your actions. Without knowing such subtle nature of deeds, people cry saying “What sin I have done in this birth?” They say that some deed from the previous birth was responsible for such fruit. They assume that they are very pure without doing any sin in this birth! It is not correct. All the fruits end by enjoyment or punishment either in this world or in the upper world (heaven and hell). When the soul comes down to the earth and enters a fresh body, all the fruits are over with a nil balance sheet.

But, the Samskaras (psychological tendencies for doing such deeds) exist in the soul in very much reduced state. The soul does again the same deeds guided by these samskaras, which are called as destiny (Karmasesha). Therefore, either enjoyment of the fruits or worship of God (theoretical and practical) are the two ways left over. God alone can burn your sins by His own specific technology (enjoying the fruits for your sake). The Gita says the same (Ahamtva…). You cannot escape the enjoyment of the fruits even after millions of Yugas unless these Samskaras are burnt by the divine knowledge, which leads you to God and subsequent practical devotion. People misunderstand that the divine knowledge directly burns the Samskaras.

The burning can be verified only through the practical devotion to God (Jnanaagnih… Gita). The proof for receiving the right divine knowledge is only determination and implementation in practice. The root of all these Samskaras is only attachment to the world. When this attachment is burnt, the Samskaras are burnt. But burning the attachment to the world is very difficult and cannot be achieved by the effort of even entire life time. Therefore, do not waste your life time in burning these Samskaras. You divert these Samskaras (good and bad qualities) to God and this is the easiest and fruitful solution. Suppose, you go on making efforts till the age of your retirement to get the relief order from the old institution, where is the time to join the new institution?

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« Reply #697 on: November 19, 2010, 04:16:22 PM »

People have done sins and they have to be saved from sin by suffering by Jesus in their behaves.

Orthodox christianity, believes that all are born with an original sin. How that sin came? Without doing any action prior to that no sin can come. THis means that we have come to the present existence after many birth and already we have debt of sin in our account.

You have to do more research. Roman Catholics and Protestants would say this, but Orthodox have a very different interpretation of what Jesus' substitutionary suffering meant and what "original sin" is. It is not what you are saying.

What ever may be then you belive that every body has original sin by birth and during baptism it is washed off.

NO!!! This is what I mean. We do NOT believe that people inherit original sin, or that it is washed off in baptism. That is a Roman Catholic doctrine! We do not believe in inherited guilt.

Humans inherit a flawed nature. It is flawed spiritually, which leads to sin, and physically, which leads to death. When we are baptized, we die and are reborn in Christ, as a new person, liberated from our old self. That is the ONLY thing that happens in baptism.

This is why you need to do research and ask us questions. You come here claiming to be Jesus, but you have no idea about the Tradition He gave us.
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« Reply #698 on: November 19, 2010, 04:32:10 PM »

Venu Christ tells us to love even our enemies. You are saying that we should only be merciful to the deserving. There is a contradiction here Venu. If you are an incarnation, how can you contradict yourself?
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« Reply #699 on: November 19, 2010, 08:16:38 PM »

Venu Christ tells us to love even our enemies. You are saying that we should only be merciful to the deserving. There is a contradiction here Venu. If you are an incarnation, how can you contradict yourself?

Two seperate wills? Divine and human...  Wink
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« Reply #700 on: November 19, 2010, 09:38:05 PM »

Venu Christ tells us to love even our enemies. You are saying that we should only be merciful to the deserving. There is a contradiction here Venu. If you are an incarnation, how can you contradict yourself?

Very good question.

Jesus preached to love even enemies... what is the reason for that.......


The reason is, that when God comes in human form you will not neglect Him since you have trained yourself in loving even enemies also.

The Lord is giving stress on the devotees to cross the difference between good and bad faced in the world. You should be showing the same love and kindness to both good and bad people and also love friends and enemies in the same way. If you praise a good person and a friend and scold a bad person and enemy, you have failed in the Yoga.

Tomorrow when you reach the Lord in the human form, He will appear bad and damage you like any. Then you will scold the Lord also. This is very important essence of Gita that one will succeed in the tests of the Lord in human form only if he raises himself above the three qualities (Satvam, Rajas and Tamas).

Therefore you should not be disturbed by the negative qualities or positive qualities in the world like insult and honour, enmity and friendship, loss and benefit, misery and happiness etc.
(Gunanetanatetyatrin—Gita). Only such devotee can succeed the tests of the Lord and can please the Lord. This yukta state, which is the final stage of the Yoga, is called as the real sanyasa. Here the word sanyasa does not mean the external indications like saffron cloth, leaving the house etc (Naniragnih—Gita).

The sanyasin is that person who has completely sacrificed everything and everyone for the sake of the service to the Lord. Such sanyasin or yukta alone can be fully blessed by the Lord and enters the innermost circle of the Lord (Brahmabhuyaya—Gita).

Helping deserving means making a person devotee along with your help also, other wise you help to even a criminal will become a sin because your help to a crimnial may lead the crimnial to do the crime again. Thus always your help to other souls should be associated with divine knowledge preaching to transform them.

Certain people are there, who do  not listen to divine knowledge and neglect it even after repeated preaching, such people should be left out as a last resort after our best trail with them. Even Jesus told, if some body reject divine knowledge, then do not force them, leave even the dust under their foot against them!


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« Reply #701 on: November 19, 2010, 09:43:26 PM »

Venu Christ tells us to love even our enemies. You are saying that we should only be merciful to the deserving. There is a contradiction here Venu. If you are an incarnation, how can you contradict yourself?

Two seperate wills? Divine and human...  Wink

Before doing charity one should analyse the deservingness of receiver

People blindly do charity without discrimination. Such charity is ignorance and sometimes results in the accumulation of sin, if the receiver is undeserving. These ignorant donors support themselves in the name of kindness to everybody. Kindness to the deserving person is appreciated by God because it is for the welfare of the society. Kindness to the undeserving person harms the society and you are purchasing the sin. If you give milk to the serpent it will bite you and others. By this the balance of the society is lost and for this you are responsible and you will be punished by God.


Therefore the analysis and knowledge are necessary in the charity as the primary step. The Veda says that one should have analysis and discrimination of the receiver before doing the charity (Samvida deyam). The hunger of a serpent should not be sympathized because it will never change its nature. If you are following the Pravrutti (dharma), the good qualities and devotion should be seen in the receiver. The devotion is more important than good qualities, but if the devotion is selfless the good qualities naturally exist. The devotion of a selfish devotee is not true love on God.

 Ravana was a great devotee but his devotion is selfish and therefore such devotion is not true. If you are serving the devotees in Pravrutti, God will certainly come to you one day in the form of a devotee. Without Pravrutti, Nivrutti is not possible. When God comes in human form, certainly He will give you a hint of identification. If you are having the spiritual knowledge, you will certainly catch Him. He will neither cover Himself completely nor reveal Himself completely. He will be like a tough problem with a hint.


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« Reply #702 on: November 19, 2010, 09:49:07 PM »



You're claiming divine knowledge, and then directly contradicting scripture?  You're trying to lead people astray, trying to divide the flock.  The words in bold represent demonic preaching.

Dear Rev. Fr. George, you are certainly greater than an ordianry person, because God has selected you as one of the leader to lead His peoples on the earth, in spiritual aspect. Thus your position is certainly high in the eyes of God and God has given you such a responsibility. There fore, strive for God's divine knowledge, get equipped with love on God and detachment from world. Debate and ask question with present human form, extract divine knowledge from Him. Strength your love on God.

Start preaching the importance of loving God and practical sacrifice to Him. Strive for knowledge of God, do not get entangled by name and fame and relations etc. Treat God as your relative and love Him. Preach about the necessity of loving God.

When the bonds with wealth, children and husbands or wives are fully broken, salvation is complete. Even Lord Jesus patiently suffered all the negative criticism and all sorts of insults to protect His devotees. This shows the divine love of Jesus. Jesus kept silent in the court when He was charged with so many crimes. The silence shows His deep love towards His devotees. Due to such silence alone did the judge order crucifixion. Unless the crucifixion was implemented, He could not have suffered for the sins of His devotees. Thus, the Lord tolerates anything, even things which damage His personality for the sake of His devotees. Due to the crucifixion, devotees misunderstood Jesus and criticised Him as incapable. Here, the firm faith of the devotees was tested.
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« Reply #703 on: November 19, 2010, 09:52:11 PM »



NO!!! This is what I mean. We do NOT believe that people inherit original sin, or that it is washed off in baptism. That is a Roman Catholic doctrine! We do not believe in inherited guilt.

Humans inherit a flawed nature. It is flawed spiritually, which leads to sin, and physically, which leads to death. When we are baptized, we die and are reborn in Christ, as a new person, liberated from our old self. That is the ONLY thing that happens in baptism.

This is why you need to do research and ask us questions. You come here claiming to be Jesus, but you have no idea about the Tradition He gave us.

OK you believe that during baptism you are re-born...


Let me tell you what is the real baptism means...

MATTHEW 3 : 11 (Mark 1 : 1 to 8, Luke 3 : 1 to 18)

“I indeed baptize you with water ….He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire”

Veda says ‘Prajnanam Brahma’ which means that the Holy Spirit is the divine nowledge. Gita says ‘Jnanaagnih’ which means that knowledge is fire. This means that the acceptance of Holy Jesus should be through His knowledge radiating through His sentences, which are like diamonds coming out from His mouth. The acceptance should not be just by sprinkling some water. If you accept Holy Jesus just for some money or bread or some materialistic benefits, that is not the real conversion. Your spirit i.e., the soul should be attracted directly by His powerful knowledge.

 The Holy water represents rituals without knowledge.

Yohan says that Jesus will sprinkle fire, which means that Jesus emit the sacred spiritual knowledge.
 Yohan says that his preaching is like purifying with water-bath, where as the preaching of Jesus is like purifying with fire-bath.  Water purifies the place where it is poured.  But the fire put in one place spreads and purifies the entire mass by burning and turning it into ash. The purification by water is limited and also is temporary.  If you wash any item with water, it becomes dirty by next day.  But if you burn any item with fire, it is permanently purified without any change. Hence, the divine knowledge preached even to a single person like Arjuna personally in secrecy, spreads all over the world like fire and its effect of purification is forever.
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« Reply #704 on: November 19, 2010, 10:53:34 PM »

You are manipulating scripture, and you know it. When will the cognitive dissonance overcome you?
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« Reply #705 on: November 19, 2010, 11:05:33 PM »



NO!!! This is what I mean. We do NOT believe that people inherit original sin, or that it is washed off in baptism. That is a Roman Catholic doctrine! We do not believe in inherited guilt.

Humans inherit a flawed nature. It is flawed spiritually, which leads to sin, and physically, which leads to death. When we are baptized, we die and are reborn in Christ, as a new person, liberated from our old self. That is the ONLY thing that happens in baptism.

This is why you need to do research and ask us questions. You come here claiming to be Jesus, but you have no idea about the Tradition He gave us.

OK you believe that during baptism you are re-born...


Let me tell you what is the real baptism means...

MATTHEW 3 : 11 (Mark 1 : 1 to 8, Luke 3 : 1 to 18)

“I indeed baptize you with water ….He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire”

Veda says ‘Prajnanam Brahma’ which means that the Holy Spirit is the divine nowledge. Gita says ‘Jnanaagnih’ which means that knowledge is fire. This means that the acceptance of Holy Jesus should be through His knowledge radiating through His sentences, which are like diamonds coming out from His mouth. The acceptance should not be just by sprinkling some water. If you accept Holy Jesus just for some money or bread or some materialistic benefits, that is not the real conversion. Your spirit i.e., the soul should be attracted directly by His powerful knowledge.

 The Holy water represents rituals without knowledge.

Yohan says that Jesus will sprinkle fire, which means that Jesus emit the sacred spiritual knowledge.
 Yohan says that his preaching is like purifying with water-bath, where as the preaching of Jesus is like purifying with fire-bath.  Water purifies the place where it is poured.  But the fire put in one place spreads and purifies the entire mass by burning and turning it into ash. The purification by water is limited and also is temporary.  If you wash any item with water, it becomes dirty by next day.  But if you burn any item with fire, it is permanently purified without any change. Hence, the divine knowledge preached even to a single person like Arjuna personally in secrecy, spreads all over the world like fire and its effect of purification is forever.

Obviously your baptism doesn't matter if you aren't sincere. But...

John 3:5 "Amen amen I say to you, no one can enter the kindom of the heavens unless they have been born of water and of the spirit."

Note that rather than sprinkling, we (Orthodox Christians) follow the original practice of full immersion  in water three times to symbolize being buried three days in the tomb with Christ, then rinsing again with Him to new life.
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« Reply #706 on: November 19, 2010, 11:32:51 PM »



NO!!! This is what I mean. We do NOT believe that people inherit original sin, or that it is washed off in baptism. That is a Roman Catholic doctrine! We do not believe in inherited guilt.

Humans inherit a flawed nature. It is flawed spiritually, which leads to sin, and physically, which leads to death. When we are baptized, we die and are reborn in Christ, as a new person, liberated from our old self. That is the ONLY thing that happens in baptism.

This is why you need to do research and ask us questions. You come here claiming to be Jesus, but you have no idea about the Tradition He gave us.

OK you believe that during baptism you are re-born...


Let me tell you what is the real baptism means...

MATTHEW 3 : 11 (Mark 1 : 1 to 8, Luke 3 : 1 to 18)

“I indeed baptize you with water ….He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire”

Veda says ‘Prajnanam Brahma’ which means that the Holy Spirit is the divine nowledge. Gita says ‘Jnanaagnih’ which means that knowledge is fire. This means that the acceptance of Holy Jesus should be through His knowledge radiating through His sentences, which are like diamonds coming out from His mouth. The acceptance should not be just by sprinkling some water. If you accept Holy Jesus just for some money or bread or some materialistic benefits, that is not the real conversion. Your spirit i.e., the soul should be attracted directly by His powerful knowledge.

 The Holy water represents rituals without knowledge.

Yohan says that Jesus will sprinkle fire, which means that Jesus emit the sacred spiritual knowledge.
 Yohan says that his preaching is like purifying with water-bath, where as the preaching of Jesus is like purifying with fire-bath.  Water purifies the place where it is poured.  But the fire put in one place spreads and purifies the entire mass by burning and turning it into ash. The purification by water is limited and also is temporary.  If you wash any item with water, it becomes dirty by next day.  But if you burn any item with fire, it is permanently purified without any change. Hence, the divine knowledge preached even to a single person like Arjuna personally in secrecy, spreads all over the world like fire and its effect of purification is forever.

Obviously your baptism doesn't matter if you aren't sincere. But...

John 3:5 "Amen amen I say to you, no one can enter the kindom of the heavens unless they have been born of water and of the spirit."

Note that rather than sprinkling, we (Orthodox Christians) follow the original practice of full immersion  in water three times to symbolize being buried three days in the tomb with Christ, then rinsing again with Him to new life.

1 John 5:16-17
Quote
[16] He that knoweth his brother to sin a sin which is not to death, let him ask, and life shall be given to him, who sinneth not to death. There is a sin unto death: for that I say not that any man ask. [17] All iniquity is sin. And there is a sin unto death.


Matthew 12:22-32
Quote
He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

You can't forgive a sin that is unrepentant.
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« Reply #707 on: November 19, 2010, 11:35:13 PM »



Note that rather than sprinkling, we (Orthodox Christians) follow the original practice of full immersion  in water three times to symbolize being buried three days in the tomb with Christ, then rinsing again with Him to new life.

Very good. You should do all your rituals as prescribed by your orthodox church. It is very good. Never stop all these. Do all which is recommened by the church.

Even Jesus was taken to church for fulfilling the rituals after the birth of child. All these you do, never stop all these.

In addition to this learn divine knowledge from God in human form. Enquire and ask doubts and clarify your self. If you do like this you will know the importance of divine knolwedge in your spiritual life and your devotion to Jesus will increase day by day and you will appreciate more the preaching of Jesus in your life.

Jesus told unless you transform by the divine knowledge preached by God in human form and practice it really in your life one cannot enter kingdom of God.

Kingdom of GOd can be entered by people who are saved, from all the worldly bonds and maintain only one bond with God.

Salvation means cutting the bonds with everything other than God.

When the intensity of Shraddha (Basic interest on God is called as Shraddha) increases, it is called as devotion. When you enter Nivrutti (loving practical service to God in Human form), there is no risk at all, since the eternal bond with God is formed. In Nivrutti, there is no need of worship of God. Worship is ex-pression of devotion. Real love does not require any ex-pression. When the occasion comes, it gets expressed spontaneously. You are not expressing daily your love on your children. When the proper occasion arises, it springs up without any effort.

In Nivrutti the devotion is expressed in the test conducted by God on you. You say that God is testing your devotion. Your statement is correct in the language of souls. The same statement in the language of God is that God is trying to help you in proving that you have the highest bond with God only and not with anything or anybody other than God. Salvation means cutting the bonds with everything and everybody other than God. Kaivalyam means formation of the single highest bond with God. Both salvation and kaivalyam are essential.
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« Reply #708 on: November 19, 2010, 11:36:24 PM »

Venu you are speaking gibberish. Your "answer" to my question on how you can contradict yourself, was never answered. All you did was use it as an opportunity to cut and paste from your goofy website. Why don't you just post a link to your site instead of posting the contents of your entire site here on oc.net?

Moderators: I could be wrong, but isn't it against forum policy to post the content of an ENTIRE website here? How is this not spamming? Even though we know where the info comes from, doesn't this violate the rules somehow?
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« Reply #709 on: November 19, 2010, 11:54:33 PM »

Spam:Spam is flooding the Internet with many copies of the same message, in an attempt to force the message on people who would not otherwise choose to receive it. Most spam is commercial advertising, often for dubious products, get-rich-quick schemes, or quasi-legal services. Spam costs the sender very little to send -- most of the costs are paid for by the recipient or the carriers rather than by the sender.
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« Reply #710 on: November 20, 2010, 12:28:10 AM »

Venu you are speaking gibberish. Your "answer" to my question on how you can contradict yourself, was never answered. All you did was use it as an opportunity to cut and paste from your goofy website. Why don't you just post a link to your site instead of posting the contents of your entire site here on oc.net?

Moderators: I could be wrong, but isn't it against forum policy to post the content of an ENTIRE website here? How is this not spamming? Even though we know where the info comes from, doesn't this violate the rules somehow?

I have not contradicted. When you are not helping undeserving it means that you have no hatred towards that impartially you are taking a decision, provided you find that if you preach them the divine knoweldge if they do not follow; then you should not help them. The main aim of GOd is to uplift the human beings. Undeserving means one who do not listen to divine knowledge and do not follow it in their life to get transformed. If you identify such person then you should not help him. You can help him provided you also should teach him divine knowledge along with your help to uplift him.

For example, a demon cannot be taught the divine knoweldge because he do not care for God or others. His ego and jealosy is highest and he will never listen to you. But he may take help from you. Any body is suffering due to their previous sins only. The sufference is allowed by God to bring those souls to the right path and hence they start loving God and more and more attached to God.

Thus punishment is a means to bring people to a higher spiritual level where in they do not repeat the previous sins. God did not keep an revengeful attitude. Due to excessive love He is allow punishment. Here punishment is not seperately created, for the bad deeds performed by the souls, the punishment is automatically generated by itself and the soul who has done the sin has to suffer its fruits which is punishment.

A person who lavishly wasted money has now suffering with poverty. Here poverty is a blessing in disguise to lead the soul to a correct path. When in poverty the soul will control its excess expenditure behaviour and will start using money propery......

Like this GOd is the most wonderful Father who is really hepling the souls to come up in the spiritual path.

Punishment given for a sin is only to change the mind of the soul and purify it. There is no trace of revenge in this. The hell is an indication of the intensive love of God to the souls through which God wants to reform the souls. The hell indicates the hectic effort of God put on the soul to reform it and not to leave the soul for its fate. A father may leave his son since he is not changing inspite of all his efforts. But in the hell God puts serious effort and succeeds to change the soul. Therefore, even thousands of fathers cannot be equal to God. God is not leaving the soul without changing it and this point is indicated by the punishment and hell. Therefore, there is no point of excusing the Prarabhdas if this true basis is understood. God will try to change the soul through preaching as far as possible. Punishment in the hell is the last resort. Once the soul is reformed all the sins are smashed since there is neither the necessity of preaching nor the necessity of punishment.

Now when Jesus told you have to love your enemy also, this means that really you have to consider others as yourself and serve them so that your jealosy and egoism towards other human beings are controlled, by such training eventually when God in human form appears to you, you will accept Him without any oppossition.

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« Reply #711 on: November 20, 2010, 12:29:32 AM »



You can't forgive a sin that is unrepentant.

Exactly. The sin, which is the source of all sufferings, cannot be cancelled through any extent of devotion and any extent of dearness and nearness to God.

 No way is competent to cancel the sin except one path. Such only one path is real and permanent transformation of the mind. Such transformation will avoid the doing of sin in future. Since the punishment given for the sin done in the past also aims at this transformation only, there is no meaning of punishing the soul further for the past sins after the transformation.

 Hence, the permanent and real transformation of the soul cancels all the past sins and the future possibility of doing any sin more. There is no other way than this because such unique way is the will of God. If God cancels all your past sins, it means that you are really and permanently transformed and that you will never do sin in the future.

 Such permanent and real transformation of the soul can be achieved only by getting the true knowledge, which is the starting step of the correct treatment. After getting the true knowledge, you will try to travel in the right path and now your effort gains importance. Gradually, you will succeed in getting the real and permanent transformation through the right knowledge associated with your subsequent effort to implement the right knowledge in practice. Both right knowledge and your effort are necessary to achieve the goal.
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« Reply #712 on: November 20, 2010, 12:38:29 AM »

Dattaswami=incoherent
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« Reply #713 on: November 20, 2010, 12:45:00 AM »

Venu can you please explain this picture?
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« Reply #714 on: November 20, 2010, 02:30:39 AM »

Dattaswami=incoherent

I request you to analyse the knoweldge again.

Any body suffers for his own previous sins only. Suffering is not for revenge but for upliftment of the soul so that it will introspect the suffering and try to stop the sins again. Thus suffering is serving a good purpose.

Offcourse one should love ones enemy also so that enemity is cancelled and both will accept each other and peace is maintained in the society.

The case of charity is to be done with caution. If God in human form is available to you then He is the most deserving to whom we should do our charity. Then if you want to help some body, then you should contact God in human form whether the person in question can be helped or not. Better you leave everything to God in human form, and He will decide what to do the best for you.

There existed lot of leprosy people when Jesus came. But He gave cure to only 10 people who approached Him. Jesus did not cure all the leprosy person in that area impartially. Similarly there were lot of blind people in the soceity that time. But Jesus cured only a particular person. What is the reason? Is, it not Jesus kind enough to heal all the people 100% without discrimination.

Jesus knows the back ground of each person. He know the debt of sins in each. Jesus told, if one repented and do not do the sin practically again then all peoples suffering will stop then and there itself. But one should never again repeat the sin again practically.

Thus who ever eligible to them Jesus healed. Others still suffered since their transformation was not complete and some more time they have to suffer for completely transforming. Thus if you help such people who are allowed to suffer for their betterment by God, in between, then you are putting your hand in the divine administration.


God knows whom should be helped at what time. Dont you think that you are more efficient than God and since due to less altertness of God some body is suffering and you want to help those people who suffer since God is less alter about him? Donot you think that.. No injustice will happen in this world. God is very much altert and efficient. If you want to help some body, first impart divine knowledge to them and transform them into a good devotee, by this you are participating in the mission of divine knowledge propagation, in that case God will be very much pleased with you.

Without the aspect of God if you help some body it will be a waste.....
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« Reply #715 on: November 20, 2010, 02:43:22 AM »

Venu can you please explain this picture?

When the Universal Spirituality was started as a Mission, My devotees suggested using these photos. I agreed based on one concept, i.e., when the same face is present in all the pictures it would give a psychological impression that the same God appeared in different forms. The face is the real identity of a person. Unfortunately, the pictures of various deities and incarnations were only the imaginary drawings of artists. But, they included different faces in these imaginary diagrams.

This will give an unconscious impression that the deities and incarnations are quite different and the idea of one God does not become strong. I have super imposed My face on the faces of deities and incarnations for whom the real photos were not present. Don’t you think that a real face is better than the imaginary face? My face and the imaginary faces on the photos are constituted by five elements only and there is no difference. I did not agree to super impose My face on the face of Shri Shirdi Sai Baba, because His real photo exists. For this concept of one God, this single face helps. This single real face need not be mine only. In fact you can also super impose your face in the faces of these deities and incarnations to explain that concept. It is only just a pictorial model. I will appreciate equally for two merits. 1) The face is real and not imaginary and truth is better than false imagination. 2) The face is single and this point does not exist in the imaginary faces.

In the spiritual field the only two impurities, which are the two layers that cover our two eyes are egoism and jealousy. Nobody is exceptional in these two impurities. Sadhana is only the eye operation to remove these two layers from our two eyes. Then only one can accept the existence of God and finally accept the existence of God in Human incarnation. When two eyes are completely covered by these two layers, one does not accept even in the existence of God. If the two layers are partially operated, the human being accepts the existence of God but not the human incarnation. When these two layers are completely removed, the devotee recognizes the human incarnation like Hanuman recognizing Rama. Because of these two layers many people did not recognize the human incarnations.

Some recognized and respected but did not worship. A few recognized and also worshipped. Sometimes the human incarnation was also killed due to the intensity of these two layers as in the case of Lord Jesus. Lord Mohammed also had to fight with people constantly because He tried to unite the various sub-religions in Islam. Sankara was killed by black magic because He condemned all the sub-religions and united them. Swami Dayananda tried to bring out the real heart of Vedas and was killed by food poisoning. Therefore, we must carefully watch the various effects of these two layers present within us before we analyze the object. The subjective analysis is very important before the objective analysis. Sankara told that unless the mind is purified from these impurities (Chitta Suddhi), recognition of God and recognition of Human Incarnation finally (Jnana Yoga) is not possible.

I have answered not only your question but also the root of your question. Previously the super imposition of face might not have been done due to the absence of photography and computer graphics. However, when Hanuman did not agree Krishna as Rama, Krishna did the same computer graphics by His divine power and super imposed the face of Rama on His face. You may not believe if I say that the same face of Lord Krishna was decorated by the dress of the face of Rama. Due to change in the dress the face appears different. You will find this fact in My photos also. Actually, it is the same face but appears different due to different external dress. Thus the human body is only the external dress and the single actor present in all these roles is the same Lord. Hanuman could not recognize Krishna as Rama due to this external dress only.
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« Reply #716 on: November 20, 2010, 02:50:03 AM »

Dattaswami=incoherent

I request you to analyse the knoweldge again.

If I had $300K, should I buy a Ferrari or a Maybach?  That is the knowledge that I'm seeking.   Roll Eyes

Any body suffers for his own previous sins only. Suffering is not for revenge but for upliftment of the soul so that it will introspect the suffering and try to stop the sins again. Thus suffering is serving a good purpose.

Wrong.

Offcourse one should love ones enemy also so that enemity is cancelled and both will accept each other and peace is maintained in the society.

The case of charity is to be done with caution. If God in human form is available to you then He is the most deserving to whom we should do our charity. Then if you want to help some body, then you should contact God in human form whether the person in question can be helped or not. Better you leave everything to God in human form, and He will decide what to do the best for you.

Was Mother Teresa God in Human Form or did she seek another person who was God in human form?

There existed lot of leprosy people when Jesus came. But He gave cure to only 10 people who approached Him. Jesus did not cure all the leprosy person in that area impartially. Similarly there were lot of blind people in the soceity that time. But Jesus cured only a particular person. What is the reason? Is, it not Jesus kind enough to heal all the people 100% without discrimination.

I have no faith in you.  Jesus only healed those who willingly believed in him.  You cited the Parable of the 10 Lepers.  Only one thanked Jesus for healing him as the other 9 went back to their pre-leprosy world which shows that one's faith can be fleeting..

Jesus knows the back ground of each person. He know the debt of sins in each.

Go ahead, tell me mine on this public board.  You can't do it.  I have my answer for you if you reply to this....

Jesus told, if one repented and do not do the sin practically again then all peoples suffering will stop then and there itself. But one should never again repeat the sin again practically.

Thus who ever eligible to them Jesus healed. Others still suffered since their transformation was not complete and some more time they have to suffer for completely transforming. Thus if you help such people who are allowed to suffer for their betterment by God, in between, then you are putting your hand in the divine administration.

So, Mother Teresa was interfering with "divine administration" even though she was God in human form ... in other words, there is more than one God.  How does Islam reconcile with your belief in multiple Gods?

God knows whom should be helped at what time. Dont you think that you are more efficient than God and since due to less altertness of God some body is suffering and you want to help those people who suffer since God is less alter about him? Donot you think that.. No injustice will happen in this world. God is very much altert and efficient. If you want to help some body, first impart divine knowledge to them and transform them into a good devotee, by this you are participating in the mission of divine knowledge propagation, in that case God will be very much pleased with you.

Without the aspect of God if you help some body it will be a waste.....

Like this thread.....   Angry
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« Reply #717 on: November 20, 2010, 02:52:53 AM »

Thus the human body is only the external dress and the single actor present in all these roles is the same Lord. Hanuman could not recognize Krishna as Rama due to this external dress only.

So Mother Teresa wasn't Mother Teresa but an incarnation of your Gods masquerading as a Roman Catholic nun in Kolkata?   Huh
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« Reply #718 on: November 20, 2010, 03:11:52 AM »



So, Mother Teresa was interfering with "divine administration" even though she was God in human form ... in other words, there is more than one God.  How does Islam reconcile with your belief in multiple Gods?


Mother Teresa helped the poor and preached divine knowledge to them. She was selected by God to do social service in the name of God. She did it perfectly and she is a good example.

A person who is involved in divine knoweldge propagation is far far superior that even Mother Teresa.

Jesus disciples are far far superior in pleasing God than even Mother Theresa.

Pleasing God is the main of human life. God is pleased when one is involved in His service. The most important service is propagation of divine knowledge preached by the human incarnation.


Social service is certainly good if you do social service in the name of God associated with imparting divine knoweldge to those people.

Propagation divine knoweldge will improve devotion in people and if devotion in people has increased and one started loving and serving GOd the soul will get transformed due to the divine knowledge and will not repeat the sins again and this pleases God.

Thus ultimately it is the divine knowledge which transforms a person not to do sins and repent and get God's blessing and continue his love on God by practically participating in HIs mission.

If you work for God and always be devoted to God without doing any sin practically, all your needs will be taken care of in a most wonderful manner. No need of any tension. God will see that everything is fulfilled for you, since you have become like a family member of God due to your unimaginable devotion to God.

Practical service to God without any desire of getting anything in return is the greatest aspect of life and you are called for that... Learn divine knoweldge, it will save you for ever, when practised...
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« Reply #719 on: November 20, 2010, 03:21:17 AM »

Thus the human body is only the external dress and the single actor present in all these roles is the same Lord. Hanuman could not recognize Krishna as Rama due to this external dress only.

So Mother Teresa wasn't Mother Teresa but an incarnation of your Gods masquerading as a Roman Catholic nun in Kolkata?   Huh

If Mother Teresa were God in human form, she would have preached wonderful divine knoweldge. She was not GOD in human form, she was a saint who simply followed the social service in the name of God.

Jesus was God in human form since He came to preach the divine knowledge and uplift the human souls spiritually.

Jesus told, I (the human incarnation) will not be with you all time, and hence when you serve Me you are serving God alone, poor people will be there all the time. But human incarnation is very rare and identification of Him is very very difficult. My mission is divine knowledge propagation. When knowledge is propagated and when it is listened by the people and practiced practically, it will transform them then all other needs of the souls will be fulfilled by God. Thus the medicine is the divine knowledge which cure any disease like suffering......



God comes for knowledge preaching not for social service, social service is included in the knowledge propagation once the knoweldge is preached it transform the society. For example in the early days after the exit of Jesus, the poeple (christians) lived like a one family sharing everything they had. This was because they learned divine knoweldge from the disciples of Jesus who ever assocaited with Jesus when He was alive. Hence the knowledge learnt from Jesus was given to those people by the disciples and it transformed them and they lived in unity.

But due to selfshness one couple do not follow the knowledge and they did not give the money which they got after selling their property. Even after hearing the divine knoweldge they were not able to over come the selfishness and hence they were punished for a transformation by their death...
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