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Author Topic: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism  (Read 95932 times) Average Rating: 0
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dattaswami
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« Reply #405 on: November 10, 2010, 01:33:22 AM »




 
   I repeatedly say that Hinduism and Christianity have the same basic structure of spiritual knowledge. When God comes down as Human Incarnation, He is viewed in three ways. Some people view the Human Incarnation as God in-Toto. When the electricity enters the wire it pervades all over the wire. Wherever you touch the wire you will experience the electricity. Veda says the same “Antar Bahischa Tat Sarvam…..”, which means that God pervaded all over the human body and is present inside as well as outside the human body of the Human Incarnation. This view is called as monoism (Advaita) of Sankara. This exactly coincides with the statement of Jesus “I and My Father are one and the same”. The Human Incarnation is convenient for the sake of human beings. The vision, touch, conversation and co-living are quite possible with Human Incarnation. The human body is exactly the similar medium in which the soul of a human being also exists.

 For any transaction common medium is the best. It is unnecessary and wastage of time and effort to try to see God in the medium of energetic form. For such a divine vision lot of severe penance has to be done. You have seen the same God in another medium called as energy. Is it not wastage of time and effort to try to see a person in a silk shirt, when the same person is appearing before you in the cotton shirt? The person is important and not the shirt. There is a saying which states that one caught a small rat after digging a big hill. Some people try to imagine God embedded in the pure awareness, which is the finest form of energy. Such form of energy is very very subtle and can be perceived only by imagination. The pure awareness is only the costliest shirt. Therefore, the time and effort you have concentrated on the meditation to perceive God in such costliest shirt through your mind is the climax of wastage of your time and effort. The penance to see the energetic form and the meditation to imagine God in pure awareness are unnecessary efforts because you can see the same God in the human body of the Human Incarnation.

 Moreover, the human body is very very clear for the vision. The energetic form cannot be seen by the naked eyes. Only by special energy granted by the Lord, the eyes can see such energetic form. The internal eye which is the mind can only imagine the form of pure awareness. Moreover, touch is not possible in the case of the forms of energy as well as awareness. Conversation with the form of pure awareness is very much subtle and unclear. The conversation with the energetic form can take place but that is also limited to a few seconds only. The energetic form is highly unstable and is subjected to diffusion. The entropy of the energetic form is very low and the spontaneity is towards the increase in entropy. Therefore, a long conversation is not possible with energetic forms. The energetic form appears for a few seconds only and grants the boons for the penance and disappears immediately by the process of diffusion.

Such energetic form is not at all convenient for co-living. If you see Lord Krishna, the devotees could see the Lord for a long time. They could embrace Him for a long time. They could talk with Him for any length of time till their doubts are cleared. They could even hear the sweet songs from the mouth of the Lord. They lived with the Lord closely for years together. Such fortune is unimaginable and thus the human form of God is the best. Only very very few fortunate devotees can recognize God in human form and receive all the benefits fully. Some devotees doubt the Lord in human form due to over logic and loose the golden chance. Therefore, a human being can approach God completely only through the human form. This is stated by Jesus “one can reach My Father only through Me”. Thus very fortunate devotees believe the monoism of the wire and the electricity and get the complete benefit.
 
   The second view is to see the God and the Human Body as separate items. The monoism gets diluted because of the natural egoism and jealousy of humanity. They cannot accept a particular human being as God. For such acceptance complete eradication of egoism and jealousy is needed which is highly impossible. God is present in the heart of the Human Incarnation. The Lord is wrapped by the human body like a chocolate is wrapped by a covering sheath. The inner Lord is the main component and the external human body is only a minor component. The human body is recognized as a part and parcel of the Lord but it is of least importance.

 One cannot experience the Lord just by seeing or touching the covering sheath. The main component is called as ‘Seshi’ and the minor component is called as ‘Sesha’. This is the philosophy of Ramanuja. Jesus also represents this concept. Jesus told that God is His Father and that He is the beloved son of the Lord. The son is always together with the Father and is not an outsider. The blood of the Father and the son is one and the same. Thus both are essentially one and the same but God has major importance and the son has minor importance. Whenever Jesus talked that He is the Son of God this line of philosophy appears, which is called as ‘Visishta Advaita’ or a special type of monoism. The Father and His son are physically separate but both are one and the same by their essence. The Father is like ocean and the Son is like a wave. The human beings cannot worship the God. For their convenience, a small part of God came down to give the divine experience.
 
   The third line of view is ‘Dvaita’ or Dualism. This results when the egoism and jealousy of a human being is in climax. They cannot accept any human being greater than themselves in any way. God is the Master and the Human Incarnation is only His dear servant. The servant is an outsider and has no blood relationship with the father. God sends His messenger to pass on His message on the earth. Every human being is a servant of God and thus all human beings are spiritually equal. God chooses a particular servant as a messenger to the earth. Such choosing of the messenger is only a chance. This belongs to Madhva. God never enters any human body and will not come down to the earth. Only a little power and His grace enter the messenger.

Whenever Jesus claimed Himself as the messenger from the God, this line of philosophy appeared. Islam believes this type of concept for them. Mohammed is only a messenger from God. They do not accept the concept of Human Incarnation. But they respect the messenger and worship Him as the representative of God. Thus this type of worship started the representative worship. A representative of God can be any object in the world. Not only the human body but also any non-living inert object can also stand as the representative of God. Based on this only, the Persians started worshipping Fire as God.

 Some devotees feel that God is the all-pervading cosmic energy, which is also inert. Some meditate upon God as the all-pervading pure awareness, which is also another special form of energy only. Life or awareness is a special form of nervous energy. Some have started worshipping every human being or even every living being as God. Some have expanded the concept to every living and nonliving object and thus treated the entire cosmos as God. Scientists believe that the ultimate is only this world. Thus this concept of representative worship ended with atheism finally. This concept has good sides also. When the Human Incarnation is denied the false human incarnations are prevented. Otherwise several preachers have started cheating the public by exploiting this concept. In that way this line of philosophy is no doubt good.
 
   Thus, the Christianity and Hinduism have the same structure of philosophy and can be treated as the two branches of the same tree. Only the language, culture, food habits etc., differ in these two religions. But the internal spiritual essence is one and the same. Only these two religions accept the concept of Human Incarnation and treat the human form as God. I do not understand why there is a quarrel between Hindus and Christians when such a wonderful homogeneity exists. The History also showed the mutual love and respect in these two religions as you can see the honour of Jesus in India and the honour of Hindu saints like Swami Vivekananda in Christian countries.

 No other two religions have such fusion as Christianity and Hinduism. When such homogenous religions quarrel with each other, not to speak of quarrels between heterogeneous religions. Never a Church in India was attacked and never a temple in America was attacked. The Christianity is spreading in India very easily. Similarly, Hinduism is also spreading very fast in Christian countries. Therefore, I wish the fusion of these two religions in the beginning to stand as an example for other religions also to fuse with each other. This will be the first step for the Universal Spirituality.
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« Reply #406 on: November 10, 2010, 02:21:01 AM »

My brother doesn't wear dresses.  Neither does my sister, for that matter.
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« Reply #407 on: November 10, 2010, 02:31:00 AM »

Why are we receiving lectures on transcendental meditation?
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« Reply #408 on: November 10, 2010, 02:38:30 AM »

Is that what he's talking about?  I thought he was in haute couture.  Wink
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« Reply #409 on: November 10, 2010, 02:56:21 AM »

"Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." ~Matthew 10:16
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« Reply #410 on: November 10, 2010, 03:02:53 AM »

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« Reply #411 on: November 10, 2010, 03:12:18 AM »

More copypasta...
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Optimist: Throw enough ideas at the wall and one is bound to stick.
Pessimist: Throw enough poo at the wall and the room is bound to stink.
Realist: You don't really need to throw things at walls to solve problems.
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« Reply #412 on: November 10, 2010, 03:23:44 AM »

It's getting boring.  Same mind-numbing babble.  I'm always hopeful, though.  Grin
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« Reply #413 on: November 10, 2010, 03:53:56 AM »

A Change in Consciousness
Just as a large fish swims alternately to both the banks of the river, the right and the left one, or to the eastern and the western, so glides the Purusha between both the boundaries, the boundary of dream and the boundary of the waking state.

Consciousness changes. This change in consciousness brings about either the waking or the dream experience. The objects do not change in themselves. There is only change in the mind.

Waking, Dreaming and Deep Sleep
Dream is called Sandhya or the intermediate state, because it is midway between waking and the deep sleep state, between Jagrat and Sushupti.

Here's the story of a lovely lady
Who was bringing up three very lovely girls.
All of them had hair of gold, like their mother,
The youngest one in curls.

Here's the store, of a man named Brady,
Who was busy with three boys of his own,
They were four men, living all together,
Yet they were all alone.

Till the one day when the lady met this fellow
And they knew it was much more than a hunch,
That this group would somehow form a family.
That's the way we all became the Brady Bunch.
The Brady Bunch,

That's the way we all became the Brady Bunch.
The Brady Bunch.



The dream world is separate from the waking one. Deep sleep is separate from both the dream world and the world in the waking state.


The sun is the source and the temporary resting place of its rays. The rays emanate from the sun and spread in all directions at the time of sunrise. They enter into the sun at sunset, lose themselves there, and come out again at the next sunrise. Even so, the states of wakefulness and dream come out from the state of deep sleep and re-enter it and lose themselves there to follow the same course again.

As soon as you wake up, the dream becomes unreal. The waking state does not exist in the dream. Both the dream and the waking states are not present in deep sleep. Deep sleep is not present in the dream and the waking states. Therefore, all the three states are unreal. They are caused by the three qualities, Sattva, Rajas and Tamas. Brahman or the Absolute is the silent witness of the three states. It transcends the three qualities also. It is pure bliss and pure consciousness. It is Existence Absolute.

The Mind in Dream
The mind is ever rotating like a wheel. It plays with the five senses of perception and gets experiences in the waking state. It receives the different sense impressions through the avenue of the senses. The impressions are lodged in the causal body. Ajnana or the causal body is like a black sheet of cloth. In it are contained the Samskaras of all your previous births.

During dream, the mind creates various kinds of objects out of the impressions produced by the experience of the waking state. Sometimes, the experiences of the previous births which are lodged in the causal body flash out during the dreaming state.

The mind is the perceiver and the mind itself is the perceived in dream. The dream objects are not independent of the mind. They have no separate existence apart from the mind. So long as the dream lasts, the dream creatures will remain, just as the milkman remains so long as the milking goes on. Whereas, in the Jagrat state, the object exists independent of the mind. The objects of the waking experiences are common to us all, while those of dreams are the property of the dreamer.

The mind creates the bee, flower, mountain, horses, rivers, etc., in the dream, without the help of any external means. It creates various curious, fantastic mixtures. You may witness in the dream that your living father is dead, that you are flying in the air. You may see in the dream a lion with the head of an elephant, a cow with the head of a dog. The desires that are not satisfied during the waking state are gratified in dream. Dream is a mysterious phenomenon. It is more interesting than the waking state.

Desires are the rulers of all experiences in waking and also in dream. Waking is physical functioning of desires; dream is mental functioning of desires. The senses are moved by desires in waking; the mind is moved by desires in dreaming. In waking, the mind experiences through the senses; in dream, the mind alone experiences.

The dreamer creates the world of his own in the dreaming state. Mind alone works independently in this state. The senses are withdrawn into the mind. The senses are at rest. The mind is then like a furious elephant let loose.

Just as a man withdraws himself from the outside world, closes the door and windows of his room, and works within the room, so also, the mind withdraws itself from the outside world and plays in the dream world with the Vasanas and Samskaras and enjoys objects made up of fine or subtle ideas which are the products of desire. Dream is a mere play of the mind only.

Just as pictures are painted on the canvas, so also, the impressions of the waking state are painted on the canvas mind. The pictures on the canvas seem to possess various dimensions though it is all on a plane surface only. Even so, though the dream-experiences are really states of the mind only, the experiencer experiences internality and externality in the dream world. He feels, while dreaming, that the dream world is quite real.

The dreamer only appears to be doing things in dream, but actually there is no activity. The scripture, in describing our doings in dreams, qualifies them by an ‘as it were’: "As it were rejoicing together with women, or laughing as it were’...". Ordinary people also describe dreams in the same manner: "I ascended, as it were, the summit of a mountain .... I saw a tree, as it were". Therefore, the dreaming self has no activity in dreams.

Dreams and Karma
The dreamer is not affected by any result whatever of the good and the evil he sees in the dream state. Because in dream the dreamer does not actually do what is holy or evil, he is not chained by either; for, good or evil actions and their consequences are not imputed to the mere spectator of them.

No one regards himself a sinner on account of the sins committed in dreams. Nor do people who have heard of them condemn or shun the person on that account. Hence he is not touched by them.

Dreams Are Created by the Lord
The dream objects are created by the Lord as fruition of the minor works of the Jiva. In order to reward the soul for very minor Karmas, the Lord creates the dreams.

The Universal Soul is the creator of dreams and not the individual soul; for, had it been possible for the latter to shape his dreams, he would never have dreamt a bad dream, but would always have dreamt only propitious ones.

Prophetic Dreams
Many riddles of life are solved through hints from dreams. Through dreams one may receive proper advice for self-correction. Through dreams one may know how to act in a particular situation. Saints and sages appear in dreams during times of difficulty and point out the way.

Works of genius like poems, etc., are found in dreams. Remedies for diseases are prescribed in dreams. Some times the exact object seen in dreams is seen afterwards in the waking state.

Dreams, an Index of One’s Moral Condition
Dreams, though of a strange and illusory nature, are a good index of the high or the low spiritual and moral condition of the dreamer. He who has a pure heart and an untainted character will never get impure dreams. An aspirant who is ever meditating will dream of his Sadhana and his object of meditation. He will do worship of the Lord and recite His Name and Mantra even in dream through the force of Samskara. Brahma-jnanins or sages have no dreams.

Dreams reveal to us that aspect of our nature which transcends rational knowledge. That in the most rational and moral man there is an aspect of his being which is absurd and immoral, one knows only through the study of one’s dreams. All our pride of rationality and morality melts into nothingness as soon as we reflect upon our dreams.

Subjective Reality, Objective Reality and Absolute Reality
Waking experience is a perception. Dream experience is a memory. As perception precedes memory, waking precedes dream. Whereas waking experience is independent of dream experience and its effects, dream experience is the result of the impressions of waking experience.

There is a kind of order or system in the waking experiences, at least more than in dream. Every day, the same persons and things become the objects of waking experience. There is a definite remembrance of previous day’s experiences and of survival and continuity of personality in waking experience. The consciousness of this continuity, regularity and unity is absent in dream. Dream is not well ordered, while waking is comparatively systematic.

Dream is less real than waking, in as much as the direct contact with the external world of waking experience is absent in dream. Though there is an external world in dream also, its value is less than that of the world in waking. Though the form of the dream world agrees with that of the waking world, in quality, the dream world is lower than the waking world.

Space, time, motion and objects, with the distinction of subject and object, are common to both waking and dreaming. Even the reality they present at the time of their being experienced is of a similar nature. But, the difference lies in the degree of reality manifested by them. The Jiva feels that it is in a higher order of truth in waking than in dreaming.

That the waking world has relative reality does not prove that it is real in the absolute sense. From the standpoint of the highest reality, waking experience also is unreal. As dream is transcended in the state of waking, the world of waking too, is transcended in the state of Self-realisation.

Dream is apparent reality. Waking is relative reality. Turiya or Brahman is absolute reality.

Waking is the reality behind dream. Turiya is the reality behind waking.

From the point of view of Turiya, both waking and dreaming are unreal. But, waking, taken by itself in relation to dream experience, has greater reality than dream. To a certain extent, as Turiya is to waking, so waking is to dream.

Dream is no dream to the dreamer. Only by one who is awake, dream is known to be a dream. Similarly, waking appears to be real to one who is still in the waking state. Only to one who is in Turiya, waking is devoid of reality. Waking is Deerghasvapna, a long dream, as contrasted with the ordinary dream which is short.

There are degrees of reality in the experiences of the individual. The three main degrees are subjective, objective and absolute. Dream experience is subjective. Waking experience is objective. The realisation of Atman or Brahman is experience of the absolute reality. The individual is the subjective being in comparison with the objective world. The subject and the object have equal reality, though both these are negated in the Absolute.

Waking—A Long Dream
In both states, waking and dreaming, objects are perceived, are associated with the subject-object relationship. This is the similarity between the two. The only difference between the two states is that the objects in dream are perceived in the space within the body, whereas in the waking condition, they are seen in the space outside the body. The fact of their ‘being seen’ and their consequent illusoriness, are common to both states.

The perception of an object is unreal, because objects are creations of the mind. An object has got a particular form, because the mind believes it to be so. In fact, objects of both the dreaming and the waking states are unreal.

Anything that has got a form is unreal. Forms are special modes of cognition and perception. They are not ultimate. In waking, there are physical forms; in dreaming, there are mental forms. Anyhow, all are forms only, limited in space and time. A form lasts only so long as that particular mental condition lasts. When there is a different mental condition, the forms of experience also change. This is why the form of the world vanishes when Self-realisation is attained.

Dream relations are contradicted by waking relations. Waking relations are contradicted by superconsciousness, which is uncontradicted. Non-contradiction is the test of reality.

The unreal world appears as real, whereas it is in reality a long dream arisen in our mind. As in dream, so in the waking state, the objects seen are unsubstantial, though the two conditions differ by the one being internal and subtle, and the other external, gross and long. This world is nothing but a long dream.

When, at sixty years age, you take a retrospective view of your life in college, it is all a dream to you. Is it not so? The future also will turn out to be so.

The past is a dream. The future is a dream. The solid present is also a dream. The fact that in Self-realisation there is absolute cessation of phenomenal experience shows that all phenomena are unreal.

Objections Refuted
It may be said that objects in the waking state serve some definite purpose and those of dream do not serve a purpose. This argument is incorrect, because the objects used as means to some end or purpose in the waking state are contradicted in the dream state. A man in the waking state eats and drinks and appeases his hunger and is free from thirst. But, when he goes to sleep, he finds himself in dream again afflicted with hunger and thirst as if he has not taken food and drink for days together. And the contrary also happens and is found to be true. The utility and objective worth of things, etc., in waking are cancelled in the dream state, even as the conditions and experiences in dream are invalidated in waking. Objects act as means to ends only in a particular condition, and not in all conditions. Things are real only in their realms, and not always. That which is not always real is an appearance, is unreal; for, reality is everlasting. As the objects of the waking state do not work in dream, they are unreal. As the objects of the dream do not work in the waking state, they are unreal. Hence, everything is unreal.

It may be contended that objects of dream are queer, fantastic and unnatural. And hence, waking cannot be like dream. But the experiences in dream, however grotesque or abnormal, are not abnormal to the dreamer. They appear fantastic only in a different state, viz., in waking. One cannot say what is really fantastic, and what is normal and real. The mind gives values to objects, and its conception of normality and abnormality changes according to the state in which it is. The dreamer has his own conception of space, time and causation, even as the waking one has his own notions. One state is absurd when compared to the other. This shows that both states are illogical, and therefore, absurd from the highest standpoint.

It may be said that objects seen in waking are not mere mental imaginations, because the objects of waking experience are seen by other people also, whether or not one’s mind cognises them. But, it is seen in the dream state also, objects of experience are open to the perception of other people, though the people as well as the objects are all subjective imaginations.

It may be said that in waking we perceive through the sense-organs and not merely through ideas. But it is seen, that in dream also, we perceive through the sense-organs belonging to the dream state, which are not less real than those of the waking state. As dream is unreal, waking also must be unreal.

The Dreamless Atman
There is one pure Consciousness or Atman in all beings which is infinite, eternal, all-pervading, self-existent, self-luminous and self-contained; which is partless, timeless, spaceless, birthless and deathless. This is the real ‘I’. This ‘I’ never wakes, dreams or sleeps. It is always the seer or the silent witness of the three states of waking, dreaming and sleeping. It is the Turiya or the fourth state. It is the state that transcends the three states.

It is the false or relative ‘I’ called Ahankara or ego or Jiva that wakes up, dreams and sleeps. The waker, the dreamer and the sleeper are all changing personalities and unreal.

The real Self, the real ‘I’, never wakes up, dreams and sleeps. From the viewpoint of the absolute truth or Paramarthika Satta, no one wakes up, dreams and sleeps.

Wake Up and Realise
Learn to be the witness of your thoughts in the waking state. You can be conscious in the dream state that you are dreaming. You can alter, stop or create your own thoughts in the dream state independently. You will be able to keep awake in the dream state. If the thoughts of the waking state are controlled, you can control the dream thoughts also.

Do not allow the mind to run into the sensual grooves. Fortify yourself by developing the intellect through enquiry of Brahman, reflection and contemplation. The intellect will serve the purpose of a strong fortress. It will not allow the sense-impressions to be lodged in the causal body. It will not allow the impressions of the causal body to come out. It will serve a double purpose.

Brahman alone is really existent. Jiva, world are false. Kill this illusory egoism. The world is unreal when compared to Brahman. It is a solid reality for a passionate worldly man, even as dreams are real to the childish. The world does not exist for a Jnani or a Mukta.

You dream that you are a king. You enjoy various kinds of royal pleasures. As soon as you wake up, everything vanishes. But you do not feel for the loss, because you know that the dream creatures are all false. When you know the real Tattva, Brahman, the waking consciousness also will become quite false like a dream. Even in the waking consciousness if you are well established in the idea that the world is a false illusion, you will not get any pain.

Wake up and realise, my child!


Great scientists, the inventors of many marvellous things, mighty emperors who have done stupendous work, inspired poets, wonderful artists, many Rishis, Yogins, have come and gone. You are all extremely anxious to know what has become of them. Do they still exist ? What is there at the other side of death ? Have they become non-existent or have they dwindled into an airy nothing ? Such questions do arise spontaneously in the hearts of all. The same question arises today as it arose thousands of years ago. No one can stop it, because it is inseparably connected with our nature.

The idea of death has ever been the strongest motive power of religion and religious life. Death stirs a man to search for immortality.

Man is afraid of death. Man does not want to die. He wants to live forever. This is the starting point of philosophy. Philosophy enquires and investigates. It boldly proclaims, "O man, do not be afraid of death. There is an immortal abode. That is Brahman. That is your own Atman that dwells in the chambers of your heart. Purify your heart and meditate on this pure, immortal, changeless Self. You will attain immortality".

You cannot die, because you were never born. You are immortal Atman. Birth and death are two false scenes in the unreal drama of Maya. They concern the physical sheath only, a false product formed by the combination of the five elements. The ideas of birth and death are mere superstition.

Every soul is a circle. The circumference of this circle is nowhere, but its centre is in the body. Death means the change of this centre from body to body. Why, then, should you be afraid of death ?

What is Death?
Death is separation of the soul from the physical body. The entrance of a soul into a body is called birth. The soul's departure from the body is called death. A body is dead if the soul is absent.

Death is a door opening from one aspect of life to another. Death is cessation of bodily or physical activity, of physical and organic function, of physical consciousness. Death is a transition from one state of being to another, a change of the from of consciousness to another plane, astral or mental. Ice becomes water, and water becomes steam, vapour, and invisible gas, according to the degree of vibration. So is life in the physical, astral, and mental planes.

Death does not end your personality and self-consciousness. It merely opens the door to a higher form of life. Death is only the gateway to a fuller life.

Death is not extinction of personality. It is merely the cessation of an important individuality. It is only a change of form. Life flows on to achieve its conquest of the universe, life flows on till it merges in the Eternal.

Death is not the end of life. It is an aspect of life. It is a natural incident in the course of life. It is necessary for your evolution.

Death is not the opposite of life. It is only a phase of life. Life flows on ceaselessly. The fruit perishes, but the seed is full of life. The seed dies, but a huge tree grows out of the seed. The tree perishes, but it becomes coal which has a rich life. Water disappears, but it becomes the invisible steam which contains the seed of a new life. The stone disappears, but it becomes lime which is full of new life. The physical sheath only is thrown, but life persists.

Dissolution of the body is no more than sleep. Just as man sleeps and wakes up, so is death and birth. Death is like sleep. Birth is like waking up. Death brings promotion to new, better life. A man of discrimination and wisdom is not afraid of death. He knows that death is the gate of life. Death, to him, is no longer a skeleton bearing a sword to cut the thread of life, but rather an angel who has a golden key to unlock for him the door to a far wider, fuller, and happier existence.

Birth follows death, just as waking follows sleep. You will again resume the work that was left off by you in your previous life. Therefore do not be afraid of death.

Birth and death are jugglery of Maya. He who is born begins to die. He who dies begins to live. Life is death and death is life. Birth and death are merely doors of entry and exit on the stage of this world.

Just as you move from one house to another house, the soul passes from one body to another to gain experience. Just as a man, casting off worn out garments, takes new ones, so the dweller in this body, casting off worn-out bodies, enters into others which are new.

O man, do not be afraid of death at all. Death is Maya's illusory phenomenon. Death is dissolution of the elements. Thou art immortal, Amara (immortal).

Signs of Death
It is very difficult to find out the real signs of death. Stoppage of the heart-beat, stoppage of the pulse or breathing are not the actual signs of death. Stoppage of the heart-beat, pulse, and respiration, cadaveric rigidity of the limbs, clammy sweat on the body, absence of warmth in the body, are the popular signs of death. The doctor tries to find out whether there is corneal reflex in the eye. He tries to bend the leg. These signs are not the real signs of death, because there have been several cases where there were cessation of breathing and beating of heart, and yet, the persons revived after some time.

Hatha Yogins (adept in hatha yoga exercises) are put in a box and buried underneath the earth for forty days. Afterwards they are taken out, and they revive. Respiration may stop for a long time. In cases of suspended animation, respiration stops for two days. Many cases have been recorded. The heart-beat may stop for many hours, even for days, and then it can be recovered. Hence it is extremely difficult to say what would be the actual or the final sign of death. The decomposition and putrefaction of the body may be the only final sign of death.

No one should be buried immediately after death, before decomposition sets in. One may think that a man is dead, whereas he may be in a state of trance, catalepsy, ecstasy, or Samadhi. Trance, Samadhi, catalepsy, and ecstasy are states which resemble death. The outward signs are similar.

Persons suffering from heart-failure should not be buried immediately, as breathing might commence once again after a particular time. Burial should take place only after the body begins to putrefy.

Soul's Journey After Death
When a man dies, he carries with him the permanent Linga-Sarira which is made up of the five Jnana-Indriyas, the five Karma-Indriyas, the five Pranas, mind, Buddhi, Chitta, and Ahankara, and the changing Karmasraya which determines the formation of next life.

The soul contracts and withdraws all the senses. The physical senses become dimmer and dimmer, just as the flame in a lamp becomes dimmer and dimmer when the oil gets exhausted. The subtle body or Sukshma-Sarira passes out of the physical body like a mist.

The soul, accompanied by the chief vital air or Mukhya Prana, the sense-organs, and the mind, and taking with itself Avidya, good and evil actions, and the impressions left by its previous existences, leaves its former body and obtains a new body. When it passes from one body to another, it is enveloped by the subtle parts of the elements which are the seeds of the new body.

The soul has a vision of the body to come. Just as a leech or a caterpillar takes hold of one object, the soul visualizes the body to come before it leaves the present body.

Dissolution of the Elements at Death
The physical body is composed of the five great elements or the Mahabhutas, viz., earth, water, fire, air, and ether. The Devas or gods are endowed with a divine or luminous body. The fire Tattva is predominant in them. In man, the earth Tattva is preponderating. In the case of aquatic animals, the element of water predominates. In the case of birds, the element of air predominates.

Hardness of the body is due to the portion of earth; the fluidity is due to the portion of water; the warmth that you feel in the body is due to fire; moving to and fro and such other activities are due to air; space is due to Akasa or ether. Jivatma or the individual soul is different from the five elements.

After death, these elements are dissolved. They reach their primordial sources in the inexhaustible storehouse of nature. The element of earth goes and joins its store of Prithvi Tattva. The other elements also go back to their sources.

The respective functions of the organs are blended with the presiding gods. Sight goes to the sun from where it had its power of vision, speech goes to fire, life-breath to air, the ear into quarters, the body into the earth, hairs into annual herbs, hairs of the head into trees, and blood and semen into waters.

Death Pangs
There is no pain at the time of death. Ignorant people have created much horror and terror regarding death. In the Garuda Purana and the Atma Purana, it is described that the pangs of death are tantamount to the pain caused by the stings of 72,000 scorpions. This is mentioned only to induce fear in the hearers and readers, and force them to work for Moksha. In spiritualism, there is unanimous report from the enlightened spirits that there is not even a bit of pain during death. They clearly describe their experiences at death and state that they are relieved of a great burden by the dropping of this physical body, and that they enjoy perfect composure at the time of separation from this physical body. Maya creates vain fear in the onlookers by inducing convulsive twitchings in the body. That is her nature and habit. Do not be afraid of death pangs. You are immortal, Amara.

Prayer for the Dead
The departed souls remain in a state of swoon or unconsciousness immediately after death. They cannot feel that they are detached from their previous gross material bodies. Prayers, Kirtan, and good thoughts from relatives and friends can give real solace to the departed souls. They create a potent vibration and an awakening in their stupefied condition of mind, and bring back their veiled consciousness. The souls begin to realize that they are not really in their gross material bodies.

Then they endeavour to cross the borderland, a narrow river of ether, which is known as Vaitarani to the Hindus, as Chinnat-bridge to the Parsis, and Sirat to the Muslims.

When the departed souls are sinking peacefully and when they are ready to have a glorious awakening in heaven, they are roused into vivid remembrance of the mundane life by weeping and wailing of their friends and relatives. The thoughts of the mourning people produce similar vibrations in their minds and bring about acute pain and discomfort. And the uncontrolled grief of their relatives drags them down from their astral planes. This may seriously retard them on their way to the heaven-world. This produces serious injury to them.

Last Thought-Forms
The last thought of a man governs his future destiny. It determines his future birth.

The last thought of a licentious man will be the thought of his woman. The last thought of an inveterate drunkard will be that of his peg of liquor. The last thought of a greedy money-lender will be that of his money. The last thought of a fighting soldier will be that of shooting his enemy. The last thought of a mother who is intensely attached to her only son will be that of her son only.

Raja Bharata nursed a deer out of mercy and became attached to it. His last thought was the thought of that deer. Hence he had to take the birth of a deer.

Man always desires to die a peaceful death with his mind fixed on God. That is the reason why Gita, Bhagavata, Vishnu Sahasranama, and other holy scriptures are recited at the death-bed of the sick man; even though he may not be able to speak, he may hear what is read out to him. This will help the sick man in forgetting the body-idea or his ailment and think of the Lord. When his memory fails, these sacred sentences of the scriptures will remind him of his real nature.

It is very difficult to keep up God-consciousness at the time of death when diseases torment the body, when consciousness fades away. But, for that man who has disciplined his mind all throughout his life and who has tried to fix the mind on the Lord through constant practice, the last thought will be thought of God only. It cannot come by a stray practice in a day or two, in a week or month. It is a life-long endeavour and struggle.

Interval Between Death and Rebirth
People wish to know the exact period that elapses between the time of leaving the body and being born again. Does the soul take a new body in one year ? Does it take ten years ? How long does one live upon the subtler planes before reappearing on the earth plane ? These are some of the questions.

In main, two factors decide this issue, viz., the nature of the individual Karma, and the last impression before death. It may vary from hundreds of years to a few months even. Those that work out some of their Karmas in other planes in subtler regions take a considerable time before entering a fresh body. The interval is very long, for a year of the earth-period passes of as a single day on the celestial plane. There is an instance cited where, seeing the amazement and admiration of foreign tourists at the imposing ruins of certain monuments, a saint present in the vicinity remarked that some of these very people had fashioned the monuments centuries ago.

Sometimes, a very sensual individual with strong cravings, or one with intense attachment, is reborn quickly. Also in cases where life is cut short by a violent death, or by a sudden unexpected accident, the Jiva resumes the thread very soon. Usually, in such cases of immediate rebirth, the Jiva often remembers many of the events of its previous life. It recognizes its former relatives and friends, and identifies old home and familiar objects.

This sometimes leads to very queer developments. There are some instances where a murdered person, being reborn, has declared the manner of his death and revealed the identity of the killer. A reincarnated individual had, at times, unerringly gone and uncovered the treasure that had been hidden away by him.

In the vast majority, this memory is not present. This is really a blessing conferred by the all-wise Being. Such recollection would greatly complicate our present lives. The past is veiled to you until such time as it is good and helpful to remember it. When you attain perfection and reach the end of a cycle, all will be revealed and you will see a whole rosary of lives threaded upon the one personality.

But such cases of immediate rebirth are not common. Generally, for an average individual, the interval between death and rebirth happens to be a considerable period measured in terms of earth-time. Persons who have done much good Karma spend a great deal of time on the Daivic plane before being born again. Great souls, spiritually advanced persons, wait for a long time before reincarnating.

In the intervening period between death and new birth, the departed spirit, especially if the person is physically and spiritually developed, can frequently materialize upon the earth plane if necessity arises. It takes human form, talks, and even make itself felt by tangible touch. It is possible to photograph such an apparition.

Such materialized form is different from the astral body which is not visible to normal vision. It is an exact counterpart, a subtle 'double' to the physical body, and forms the vehicle in which the departed soul journeys after death.

Astral consciousness, however cannot guarantee you freedom from birth and death. Occultism and spiritualism can never give ultimate emancipation; nor can they reveal the full secret of the beyond. Spiritual realization and knowledge of the Self alone will reveal the mystery of life and death and the life beyond death.

Be Not Afraid of Death
Death is painful to worldly man. A Yogi or a sage, or even a real aspirant, has no fear of death. A desireless man never weeps when he dies. A full-blown Jnani never dies. His Prana never departs.

Your highest duty is to prepare for a peaceful life hereafter. Conquer the fear of death. Conquest of the fear of death, conquest of death, is the highest utility of all spiritual Sadhana. The one aim of all Yoga Sadhana is to meet death fearlessly and joyfully.

Man is afraid of death. In old age, he tries to think of God. If he remembers God even from his boyhood, he will reap a rich spiritual harvest in old age.

Bhishma had death at his command. Savitri brought back Satyavan, her husband, to life through her power of chastity. Markandeya conquered death through worship of Lord Siva. You also can conquer death through devotion, knowledge, and the power of Brahmacharya.

Introduction
Chuang Tze, a Chinese philosopher, once dreamt that he was a butterfly. On waking, he said to himself, "Now, am I a man dreaming that I am a butterfly, or am I a butterfly that thinks, ‘I am Chuang?’"

When you dream, you see the events of fifty years within an hour. You actually feel that fifty years have passed. Which is correct, the time of one hour of waking consciousness or the fifty years of dreaming consciousness? Both are correct.

Pascal is right when he asserts that if the same dream comes to us every night, we should be just as much occupied by it as by the things which we see every day. To quote his words: "If an artisan were certain that he would dream every night for fully twelve hours that he was a king, I believe that he would be just as happy as a king who dreams every night for twelve hours that he is an artisan".

A Change in Consciousness
Just as a large fish swims alternately to both the banks of the river, the right and the left one, or to the eastern and the western, so glides the Purusha between both the boundaries, the boundary of dream and the boundary of the waking state.

Consciousness changes. This change in consciousness brings about either the waking or the dream experience. The objects do not change in themselves. There is only change in the mind.

Waking, Dreaming and Deep Sleep
Dream is called Sandhya or the intermediate state, because it is midway between waking and the deep sleep state, between Jagrat and Sushupti.

The dream world is separate from the waking one. Deep sleep is separate from both the dream world and the world in the waking state.

The sun is the source and the temporary resting place of its rays. The rays emanate from the sun and spread in all directions at the time of sunrise. They enter into the sun at sunset, lose themselves there, and come out again at the next sunrise. Even so, the states of wakefulness and dream come out from the state of deep sleep and re-enter it and lose themselves there to follow the same course again.

As soon as you wake up, the dream becomes unreal. The waking state does not exist in the dream. Both the dream and the waking states are not present in deep sleep. Deep sleep is not present in the dream and the waking states. Therefore, all the three states are unreal. They are caused by the three qualities, Sattva, Rajas and Tamas. Brahman or the Absolute is the silent witness of the three states. It transcends the three qualities also. It is pure bliss and pure consciousness. It is Existence Absolute.

The Mind in Dream
The mind is ever rotating like a wheel. It plays with the five senses of perception and gets experiences in the waking state. It receives the different sense impressions through the avenue of the senses. The impressions are lodged in the causal body. Ajnana or the causal body is like a black sheet of cloth. In it are contained the Samskaras of all your previous births.

During dream, the mind creates various kinds of objects out of the impressions produced by the experience of the waking state. Sometimes, the experiences of the previous births which are lodged in the causal body flash out during the dreaming state.

The mind is the perceiver and the mind itself is the perceived in dream. The dream objects are not independent of the mind. They have no separate existence apart from the mind. So long as the dream lasts, the dream creatures will remain, just as the milkman remains so long as the milking goes on. Whereas, in the Jagrat state, the object exists independent of the mind. The objects of the waking experiences are common to us all, while those of dreams are the property of the dreamer.

The mind creates the bee, flower, mountain, horses, rivers, etc., in the dream, without the help of any external means. It creates various curious, fantastic mixtures. You may witness in the dream that your living father is dead, that you are flying in the air. You may see in the dream a lion with the head of an elephant, a cow with the head of a dog. The desires that are not satisfied during the waking state are gratified in dream. Dream is a mysterious phenomenon. It is more interesting than the waking state.

Desires are the rulers of all experiences in waking and also in dream. Waking is physical functioning of desires; dream is mental functioning of desires. The senses are moved by desires in waking; the mind is moved by desires in dreaming. In waking, the mind experiences through the senses; in dream, the mind alone experiences.

The dreamer creates the world of his own in the dreaming state. Mind alone works independently in this state. The senses are withdrawn into the mind. The senses are at rest. The mind is then like a furious elephant let loose.

Just as a man withdraws himself from the outside world, closes the door and windows of his room, and works within the room, so also, the mind withdraws itself from the outside world and plays in the dream world with the Vasanas and Samskaras and enjoys objects made up of fine or subtle ideas which are the products of desire. Dream is a mere play of the mind only.

Just as pictures are painted on the canvas, so also, the impressions of the waking state are painted on the canvas mind. The pictures on the canvas seem to possess various dimensions though it is all on a plane surface only. Even so, though the dream-experiences are really states of the mind only, the experiencer experiences internality and externality in the dream world. He feels, while dreaming, that the dream world is quite real.

The dreamer only appears to be doing things in dream, but actually there is no activity. The scripture, in describing our doings in dreams, qualifies them by an ‘as it were’: "As it were rejoicing together with women, or laughing as it were’...". Ordinary people also describe dreams in the same manner: "I ascended, as it were, the summit of a mountain .... I saw a tree, as it were". Therefore, the dreaming self has no activity in dreams.

Dreams and Karma
The dreamer is not affected by any result whatever of the good and the evil he sees in the dream state. Because in dream the dreamer does not actually do what is holy or evil, he is not chained by either; for, good or evil actions and their consequences are not imputed to the mere spectator of them.

No one regards himself a sinner on account of the sins committed in dreams. Nor do people who have heard of them condemn or shun the person on that account. Hence he is not touched by them.

Dreams Are Created by the Lord
The dream objects are created by the Lord as fruition of the minor works of the Jiva. In order to reward the soul for very minor Karmas, the Lord creates the dreams.

The Universal Soul is the creator of dreams and not the individual soul; for, had it been possible for the latter to shape his dreams, he would never have dreamt a bad dream, but would always have dreamt only propitious ones.

Prophetic Dreams
Many riddles of life are solved through hints from dreams. Through dreams one may receive proper advice for self-correction. Through dreams one may know how to act in a particular situation. Saints and sages appear in dreams during times of difficulty and point out the way.

Works of genius like poems, etc., are found in dreams. Remedies for diseases are prescribed in dreams. Some times the exact object seen in dreams is seen afterwards in the waking state.

Dreams, an Index of One’s Moral Condition
Dreams, though of a strange and illusory nature, are a good index of the high or the low spiritual and moral condition of the dreamer. He who has a pure heart and an untainted character will never get impure dreams. An aspirant who is ever meditating will dream of his Sadhana and his object of meditation. He will do worship of the Lord and recite His Name and Mantra even in dream through the force of Samskara. Brahma-jnanins or sages have no dreams.

Dreams reveal to us that aspect of our nature which transcends rational knowledge. That in the most rational and moral man there is an aspect of his being which is absurd and immoral, one knows only through the study of one’s dreams. All our pride of rationality and morality melts into nothingness as soon as we reflect upon our dreams.

Subjective Reality, Objective Reality and Absolute Reality
Waking experience is a perception. Dream experience is a memory. As perception precedes memory, waking precedes dream. Whereas waking experience is independent of dream experience and its effects, dream experience is the result of the impressions of waking experience.

There is a kind of order or system in the waking experiences, at least more than in dream. Every day, the same persons and things become the objects of waking experience. There is a definite remembrance of previous day’s experiences and of survival and continuity of personality in waking experience. The consciousness of this continuity, regularity and unity is absent in dream. Dream is not well ordered, while waking is comparatively systematic.

Dream is less real than waking, in as much as the direct contact with the external world of waking experience is absent in dream. Though there is an external world in dream also, its value is less than that of the world in waking. Though the form of the dream world agrees with that of the waking world, in quality, the dream world is lower than the waking world.

Space, time, motion and objects, with the distinction of subject and object, are common to both waking and dreaming. Even the reality they present at the time of their being experienced is of a similar nature. But, the difference lies in the degree of reality manifested by them. The Jiva feels that it is in a higher order of truth in waking than in dreaming.

That the waking world has relative reality does not prove that it is real in the absolute sense. From the standpoint of the highest reality, waking experience also is unreal. As dream is transcended in the state of waking, the world of waking too, is transcended in the state of Self-realisation.

Dream is apparent reality. Waking is relative reality. Turiya or Brahman is absolute reality.

Waking is the reality behind dream. Turiya is the reality behind waking.

From the point of view of Turiya, both waking and dreaming are unreal. But, waking, taken by itself in relation to dream experience, has greater reality than dream. To a certain extent, as Turiya is to waking, so waking is to dream.

Dream is no dream to the dreamer. Only by one who is awake, dream is known to be a dream. Similarly, waking appears to be real to one who is still in the waking state. Only to one who is in Turiya, waking is devoid of reality. Waking is Deerghasvapna, a long dream, as contrasted with the ordinary dream which is short.

There are degrees of reality in the experiences of the individual. The three main degrees are subjective, objective and absolute. Dream experience is subjective. Waking experience is objective. The realisation of Atman or Brahman is experience of the absolute reality. The individual is the subjective being in comparison with the objective world. The subject and the object have equal reality, though both these are negated in the Absolute.

Waking—A Long Dream
In both states, waking and dreaming, objects are perceived, are associated with the subject-object relationship. This is the similarity between the two. The only difference between the two states is that the objects in dream are perceived in the space within the body, whereas in the waking condition, they are seen in the space outside the body. The fact of their ‘being seen’ and their consequent illusoriness, are common to both states.

The perception of an object is unreal, because objects are creations of the mind. An object has got a particular form, because the mind believes it to be so. In fact, objects of both the dreaming and the waking states are unreal.

Anything that has got a form is unreal. Forms are special modes of cognition and perception. They are not ultimate. In waking, there are physical forms; in dreaming, there are mental forms. Anyhow, all are forms only, limited in space and time. A form lasts only so long as that particular mental condition lasts. When there is a different mental condition, the forms of experience also change. This is why the form of the world vanishes when Self-realisation is attained.

Dream relations are contradicted by waking relations. Waking relations are contradicted by superconsciousness, which is uncontradicted. Non-contradiction is the test of reality.

The unreal world appears as real, whereas it is in reality a long dream arisen in our mind. As in dream, so in the waking state, the objects seen are unsubstantial, though the two conditions differ by the one being internal and subtle, and the other external, gross and long. This world is nothing but a long dream.

When, at sixty years age, you take a retrospective view of your life in college, it is all a dream to you. Is it not so? The future also will turn out to be so.

The past is a dream. The future is a dream. The solid present is also a dream. The fact that in Self-realisation there is absolute cessation of phenomenal experience shows that all phenomena are unreal.

Objections Refuted
It may be said that objects in the waking state serve some definite purpose and those of dream do not serve a purpose. This argument is incorrect, because the objects used as means to some end or purpose in the waking state are contradicted in the dream state. A man in the waking state eats and drinks and appeases his hunger and is free from thirst. But, when he goes to sleep, he finds himself in dream again afflicted with hunger and thirst as if he has not taken food and drink for days together. And the contrary also happens and is found to be true. The utility and objective worth of things, etc., in waking are cancelled in the dream state, even as the conditions and experiences in dream are invalidated in waking. Objects act as means to ends only in a particular condition, and not in all conditions. Things are real only in their realms, and not always. That which is not always real is an appearance, is unreal; for, reality is everlasting. As the objects of the waking state do not work in dream, they are unreal. As the objects of the dream do not work in the waking state, they are unreal. Hence, everything is unreal.

It may be contended that objects of dream are queer, fantastic and unnatural. And hence, waking cannot be like dream. But the experiences in dream, however grotesque or abnormal, are not abnormal to the dreamer. They appear fantastic only in a different state, viz., in waking. One cannot say what is really fantastic, and what is normal and real. The mind gives values to objects, and its conception of normality and abnormality changes according to the state in which it is. The dreamer has his own conception of space, time and causation, even as the waking one has his own notions. One state is absurd when compared to the other. This shows that both states are illogical, and therefore, absurd from the highest standpoint.

It may be said that objects seen in waking are not mere mental imaginations, because the objects of waking experience are seen by other people also, whether or not one’s mind cognises them. But, it is seen in the dream state also, objects of experience are open to the perception of other people, though the people as well as the objects are all subjective imaginations.

It may be said that in waking we perceive through the sense-organs and not merely through ideas. But it is seen, that in dream also, we perceive through the sense-organs belonging to the dream state, which are not less real than those of the waking state. As dream is unreal, waking also must be unreal.

The Dreamless Atman
There is one pure Consciousness or Atman in all beings which is infinite, eternal, all-pervading, self-existent, self-luminous and self-contained; which is partless, timeless, spaceless, birthless and deathless. This is the real ‘I’. This ‘I’ never wakes, dreams or sleeps. It is always the seer or the silent witness of the three states of waking, dreaming and sleeping. It is the Turiya or the fourth state. It is the state that transcends the three states.

It is the false or relative ‘I’ called Ahankara or ego or Jiva that wakes up, dreams and sleeps. The waker, the dreamer and the sleeper are all changing personalities and unreal.

The real Self, the real ‘I’, never wakes up, dreams and sleeps. From the viewpoint of the absolute truth or Paramarthika Satta, no one wakes up, dreams and sleeps.

Wake Up and Realise
Learn to be the witness of your thoughts in the waking state. You can be conscious in the dream state that you are dreaming. You can alter, stop or create your own thoughts in the dream state independently. You will be able to keep awake in the dream state. If the thoughts of the waking state are controlled, you can control the dream thoughts also.

Do not allow the mind to run into the sensual grooves. Fortify yourself by developing the intellect through enquiry of Brahman, reflection and contemplation. The intellect will serve the purpose of a strong fortress. It will not allow the sense-impressions to be lodged in the causal body. It will not allow the impressions of the causal body to come out. It will serve a double purpose.

Brahman alone is really existent. Jiva, world are false. Kill this illusory egoism. The world is unreal when compared to Brahman. It is a solid reality for a passionate worldly man, even as dreams are real to the childish. The world does not exist for a Jnani or a Mukta.

You dream that you are a king. You enjoy various kinds of royal pleasures. As soon as you wake up, everything vanishes. But you do not feel for the loss, because you know that the dream creatures are all false. When you know the real Tattva, Brahman, the waking consciousness also will become quite false like a dream. Even in the waking consciousness if you are well established in the idea that the world is a false illusion, you will not get any pain.

Wake up and realise, my child!...

http://www.dlshq.org/messages/dream.htm#intro

« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 04:10:20 AM by Tallitot » Logged

Proverbs 22:7
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« Reply #414 on: November 10, 2010, 05:07:00 AM »

"Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." ~Matthew 10:16

It is correct, when God comes in human form He is rejected and insulted by ingonrant people who are egoistic and full of jealosy, such people are like wolves. And GOd in human form is like sheep. Wolf always attack and want to eat the flesh of sheep by brutally killing it. Like wise when God in human form comes to this world and when His disciples preaches the knoweldge taught to them by God in human form; deffinetly there is will be oppossition from ordinary ignorant people who rebel the divine knowledge. Thus when approaching such ignorant people the disciple and God in human form should be careful enough to see their deservingness for the divine knoweldge, otherwise they will insult them.


Unless deservingness is not there do not preach anybody, because they will not understand the value of knoweldge and mock instead and insult. For example in bible we see that Jesus select some disciples to go to the streets and preach. He told if any body object not to receive the divine knowledge then do not preach them and do not enter their town. IN the judgement day such peoples fate will be miserable since they objected the preaching of God in human form and do not accepted it. Jesus even told that remove the dust of your feet against such people who reject God in human form and His preachings!

Thus God is impartial and He tries His level best to preach and uplift but hard hearted conventional orthodox people cannot digest the divine knowledge and repel against God in human form and His preaching. Jesus Himself told it in bible....
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« Reply #415 on: November 10, 2010, 05:13:35 AM »

Why are we receiving lectures on transcendental meditation?

Meditation is not the means of receiving grace of God. Working for the mission of God without expecting anything in return is the means of getting grace from God. Yoga is the most prestigious field of spiritualism. People think about 6 wheels (Chakras) or lotus flowers present in the spinal card, which are not seen by the eyes. They are imaginary and so they carry some inner meaning. When you say a face as a moon, fools search for moon in that face. But, wise people see similarity in the face and moon. Similarly, wheels and lotus flowers should not be searched in the spinal card. Spinal card is the main nerve, representing mind, which is the base of love.

All these wheels or lotus flowers are the bonds of love in the various relatives like parents, wife or husband, children etc. They are compared to wheels or the revolving whirlpools in the ocean, which attract a swimmer and drown him. Similarly, these love wheels are compared to lotus flowers, since the lotus flowers attract the bee by sweet fragrance and bind it. Similarly, these love flowers attract any one and bind them. “Kundalini” is the mind which is the energy travelling as waves like a serpent, should cross all these love wheels connected to 7th lotus flower in the head called “Sahasrara”, which is Buddhi or intelligence that takes the decision, which is the firm love on God.

Bhagavat Gita is called as the main scripture of Yoga (Yoga-Sastra). Why there is not even single reference to these wheels or lotus flowers in anywhere in Gita or even in Upanishats? Since they are not real, they are not even mentioned. The author of the Gita was Krishna, who was called Master of Yoga (Yogeswara). Krishna also says that the real yoga was lost since long (Sa kaleneha mahata….). This means that in the beginning, Sages in India knew the real yoga and loved God only crossing all their family bonds. In due course of time only, this true yoga was lost. Why? The middle age Indians were unable to cross their family bonds and so failed to succeed in Yoga.

They wanted to cover their in ability by twisting the very concept of yoga. The family bonds were removed from the concept and only wheels or lotus flowers are left fixed. Now, they close the eyes and say that they have seen the lotus flowers or wheels, which are only imaginary. Now they cross these wheels by their imaginary “Kundalini” and say that they have succeeded in Yoga. These blind teachers are also not to be blamed, because they were trained like that by their blind teachers. This misinterpretation was done long time back and hence, even at the time of Krishna, He told that yoga was lost since a long time.

We cannot catch those original culprits, who were the top most twisting masters and so the present tradition also cannot be blamed. Only rectification is the way left over. Some say that they see light, which is only an imagination. After all, the mind is a form of energy and on its concentration imaginary light can be imagined. Instead of such a week light, you better see a strong light with your open eyes. What is the use of these imaginary lights and colours, without achieving the Lord through your love, which excels the various worldly, loves.

I pity the foreigners, who are trapped in this false imaginary line of yoga, who are wasting their precious lifetime and energy. In fact, they are the best to succeed in yoga, if the reality of the yoga is exposed. Their family bonds are very weak and their love towards God is real, which is proved by their huge sacrifice of money to God’s work. Money is the fruit of work and its sacrifice for God’s work is “Karma phala tyaga” as mentioned in Gita. Again, the middle age Indians twisted this word “Karma phala tyaga” as sacrifice of the fruit of the work like praying God instead of sacrifice of money.

The reason was that these Indians were unable to sacrifice money to God due to their strong love on their children. Foreigners ask their children to earn after certain age. Indians store money even for ten generations and still continue to store only. Since prayers, meditation and knowledge are very much diverted to God, India was blessed by God with good language, good mind and good knowledge.

Since foreigners are good in sacrifice, God blessed them with good wealth. Even Indian spiritual centres were strongly funded by foreigners only. Swami Vivekananda cried, “Why my India suffers with poverty in spite of so much spiritual knowledge?” Sacrifice of money (Karma phala tyaga) and sacrifice of work (karma Sanyasa) put together constitute the God’s service, which is the real Yoga (real proof of love) called “Karma yoga” in Gita. Foreigners are the best in this karma yoga and so they easily succeed in yoga. Throughout Gita, this karma yoga was explained as yoga and wheels or lotus flowers are not at all mentioned.
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« Reply #416 on: November 10, 2010, 05:15:02 AM »


Law and order in God’s hands only

If some body beats you, – keep silent and do not even curse him.
You might have beaten him – in the previous birth and now
It is compensated with interest; – the case is now closed forever.
In this case you cannot expect God – to punish him at anytime.
Your long observation about him – will discourage you thoroughly.
However, if he has beaten you – without this back ground,
God will certainly punish him, – you will beat him with interest.
But the time gap is uncertain, – may be now or may be next birth.

The reason is that God punishes any body – only for transformation.
God might have punished him already – in some other angle,
Which is unknown to you and God is – waiting for the change in him.
If change is not observed – God will use the pending punishments.
Punishment due to you is somewhere – in the list of his cycle.
You are eager to punish him – just to pacify your revenge.
Your aim of punishment differs – from the aim of punishment by God.
If you realize the administration of God – or the cycle of deeds here,
You are not anxious to punish him, - law and order in God’s hands only.
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« Reply #417 on: November 10, 2010, 06:34:19 AM »


You might have beaten him – in the previous birth


Swami,  Why come on a Christian forum and preach what is erroneous - reincarnation.


Quote


you will beat him with interest.


The principle of violence and vengeance is alien to Christianity.

Why are you preaching it on a Christian forum?

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« Reply #418 on: November 10, 2010, 06:41:57 AM »


You might have beaten him – in the previous birth


Swami,  Why come on a Christian forum and preach what is erroneous - reincarnation.


Quote


you will beat him with interest.


The principle of violence and vengeance is alien to Christianity.

Why are you preaching it on a Christian forum?



Do not worry about re-incarnation, but worry about your precious time in this world, which should be used for identifying God in human form and serving Him without any expecation. Pleasing of God through service is the main aim of life.

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« Reply #419 on: November 10, 2010, 06:57:50 AM »





The principle of violence and vengeance is alien to Christianity.

Why are you preaching it on a Christian forum?





When one throws fire on you if you throw fire against him in return, can your fire extinguish the opposite fire? The fire thrown by you cannot pacify the injuries caused by your enemy’s fire on your body. The injuries caused by your fire on the body of your enemy will increase the strength of your enmity with him. If you throw water against his fire, your water can extinguish the opposite fire. The water fallen on your enemy generates repentance in your enemy and the enmity ends forever. A scholar shows love as an answer to violence. An ignorant person shows anger as an answer to anger.
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« Reply #420 on: November 10, 2010, 06:59:32 AM »



The principle of violence and vengeance is alien to Christianity.


Irish Hermit;


You have to live in this world according to the instructions of the Lord. Regarding your life in this world, the essence of His instruction is that, you should be ‘deceived’ by others and not deceive others, you should be ‘harmed by others but not harm anyone, you should not insult others, but you can be insulted by others, and you should be abused by others but not abuse others. One cannot attain God by doing penance even for centuries. But there is one easiest way to attain God.

When you are deceived by others or when you are harmed by others or when you are insulted by others or when you are abused by others, the Lord comes to your side. It means you have attained God. Therefore, you should thank the people who have deceived, or harmed or insulted or abused you.


 They have helped you in attaining God by the easiest way. Therefore you should not deceive or harm or insult or scold even such people in return. They might have passed on the punishment to you, for your sins on the will of God. In that case also, they have cleared your sins at an early stage without further interest on the punishment. Even in that way you should thank them.
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« Reply #421 on: November 10, 2010, 07:05:05 AM »

dattaswami,

Did you know that my respect for your opinions decreases every time you start a new thread? Something to think about...

The true God comes down in human form with true knowledge and His few true devotees accompany him. These few devotees belong to His inner most circles and constitute His family. In Satyaloka (True world), He is surrounded by millions of angels and sages, who will be hearing the true knowledge from His mouth. All of them are His followers and they constantly praise Him. After some time the Lord wants some rest and He comes down to the earth along with His family. On this earth nobody recognizes Him, nobody listens Him and nobody follows Him. It is just like a big officer disgusted with the large crowd in his office goes to some foreign place along with his family, where he is not identified.

The Lord emits the true knowledge on the earth and His own family members who are in the human form will only listen and follow Him. What is the use of that drama here? Already they were His followers. The aim of this drama is to inspire the people of this world so that at least one person on the earth can become His follower. Gita says the same (Kaschitmam..). The Lord is not fond of money or fame because He is the husband of the Goddess of wealth. He is not fond of the fame, because He was bored with the fame as millions of sages and angels praise Him. When the Lord comes as preacher, He is called Satguru.

The other human beings are called as only Gurus. These Gurus are fond of money and fame. They don’t know the true knowledge. Even if they know they will not preach it because not a single person will turn to them. Infact even in the case of Satguru, same is the case but His followers who accompanied Him are turning to Him. Therefore the Guru preaches false knowledge following the psychology of ignorant people. To please the ignorant person, you must preach him strictly following his psychology. Even if you say something in addition, that should not contradict his basic psychology. For Ex: - when you preach a blind person, he will be happy if you say that there is always darkness in this world.

He will be happy since he always experiences the darkness. In addition, if you say that there is Sun on the sky, you must say that the Sun is also black. He will be happy to this additional Sun because the Sun is also black. Suppose you say that there is light in the world, he will not agree since it contradicts his experience of darkness. Suppose you establish the existence of light and the existence of illuminating Sun through powerful logic, he will become emotional and violent because your concept not only contradicts his experience, but also could not be defeated by his counter logic. It is a double blow on him. Kauravas did not concede the preaching of Lord Krishna for the same reason.
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« Reply #422 on: November 10, 2010, 07:55:39 AM »

Can something be done about having thread after thread filled with evangelical eastern religions?
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« Reply #423 on: November 10, 2010, 09:32:27 AM »

Can something be done about having thread after thread filled with evangelical eastern religions?

Agreed.
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« Reply #424 on: November 10, 2010, 11:12:29 AM »

Dattaspammi, dattaspammi
How I wish you'd meet my mommy.
She, like you, is full-on barmy.
But at least she's not a Commie.
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« Reply #425 on: November 10, 2010, 11:45:08 AM »

I actually know some real blind people and they actually do NOT wish the rest of the world was in darkness.

So (as Alfred Persson says), "Analogy fail!"  Smiley
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« Reply #426 on: November 10, 2010, 12:11:59 PM »

It's not the content that bothers me so much as the incoherence.

It might actually be interesting to have a real discussion.  Hinduism is, after all, one of the major world religions, yet I personally know little about it.

But dattaspammi isn't really helping me learn.
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« Reply #427 on: November 10, 2010, 12:15:08 PM »

I think you're right, the incoherence is worse than almost anything.   Undecided
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« Reply #428 on: November 10, 2010, 12:17:03 PM »

Dattaspammi, dattaspammi
How I wish you'd meet my mommy.
She, like you, is full-on barmy.
But at least she's not a Commie.

 laugh

Everybody, dance!
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« Reply #429 on: November 10, 2010, 12:17:07 PM »

Then perhaps there should be one thread where such dialogue takes place?

I would imagine that most of us do not want to be told authoritatively what the Hindu religion teaches in regard to any and every one of the Orthodox threads which are started here?

I don't sense that there is a comparative religion discussion going on, rather a one-sided evangelism on behalf of Hinduism, or this posters understanding of Hinduism, which seems to include the belief that he is an incarnation of the Hindu god?
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« Reply #430 on: November 10, 2010, 12:22:54 PM »

Swami, dattaswami, dattaswami,
My dear old swami.
You teach the world to be,
In full-on heresy, H-E-R-E-S-Y

O, swami,
how we beg you,
how we pray you,
Just stop the spamming.

The folks here want to read you no more,
Unless you stop that Vedic bore.


(Sung to the tune of "Swanee" by Al Jolson.)

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« Reply #431 on: November 10, 2010, 12:25:18 PM »

Then perhaps there should be one thread where such dialogue takes place?

I would imagine that most of us do not want to be told authoritatively what the Hindu religion teaches in regard to any and every one of the Orthodox threads which are started here?

I don't sense that there is a comparative religion discussion going on, rather a one-sided evangelism on behalf of Hinduism, or this posters understanding of Hinduism, which seems to include the belief that he is an incarnation of the Hindu god?
Agreed.
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« Reply #432 on: November 10, 2010, 12:29:55 PM »

Does anyone know what dattaswami is trying to accomplish here?
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« Reply #433 on: November 10, 2010, 12:31:00 PM »



Friends,

Let it be known that the moderation staff is discussing this issue.  In the meantime, I ask for your patience as we figure out how to deal with this matter.

Thank you.

-Schultz.
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« Reply #434 on: November 10, 2010, 12:35:19 PM »

Does anyone know what dattaswami is trying to accomplish here?

It's a trap, get an axe!

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« Reply #435 on: November 10, 2010, 12:40:30 PM »

In the meantime, let's eat!

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« Reply #436 on: November 10, 2010, 12:48:56 PM »

Does anyone know what dattaswami is trying to accomplish here?

Yes, I've figured it out!  It's actually a very clever form of Christian apologetics.

He's trying to make Hinduism (which is actually an ancient and venerable faith in its own right) look SO annoying and incoherent that potential seekers will throw up their hands in frustration, and move on to Christianity.

Brilliant!  Grin
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« Reply #437 on: November 10, 2010, 01:35:52 PM »



Friends,

Let it be known that the moderation staff is discussing this issue.  In the meantime, I ask for your patience as we figure out how to deal with this matter.

Thank you.

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wow, I must admit that I'm very happy to hear this.  perhapse someone should direct the OP to a Hindu forum?  or blogspot?
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« Reply #438 on: November 10, 2010, 01:56:49 PM »

In the meantime, let's eat!



The original sketch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOlLjBwBMUE
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« Reply #439 on: November 10, 2010, 02:55:56 PM »

In the meantime, let's eat!


never touch the stuff.

Btw:
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« Reply #440 on: November 10, 2010, 03:07:20 PM »

Why are we receiving lectures on transcendental meditation?
Since foreigners are good in sacrifice, God blessed them with good wealth.

Yeah, so folks like the Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh can "use the foreigners good wealth" to drive his Rolls Royce down the middle of mud soaked followers who dance and sing.  I was 11 years old when I saw the news story and I'll never forget the absurdity of what I saw.

What about the Bhagwan's ex-disciples trying to kill US Attorneys?  Free love, free thought, free crime ... not so fast.
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« Reply #441 on: November 10, 2010, 03:55:14 PM »



 
   Thus, the Christianity and Hinduism have the same structure of philosophy and can be treated as the two branches of the same tree. Only the language, culture, food habits etc., differ in these two religions. But the internal spiritual essence is one and the same. Only these two religions accept the concept of Human Incarnation and treat the human form as God. I do not understand why there is a quarrel between Hindus and Christians when such a wonderful homogeneity exists. The History also showed the mutual love and respect in these two religions as you can see the honour of Jesus in India and the honour of Hindu saints like Swami Vivekananda in Christian countries.

 No other two religions have such fusion as Christianity and Hinduism. When such homogenous religions quarrel with each other, not to speak of quarrels between heterogeneous religions. Never a Church in India was attacked and never a temple in America was attacked. The Christianity is spreading in India very easily. Similarly, Hinduism is also spreading very fast in Christian countries. Therefore, I wish the fusion of these two religions in the beginning to stand as an example for other religions also to fuse with each other. This will be the first step for the Universal Spirituality.


Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Indeed, I believe that Hinduism and other Far East religions have a delightful and edifying theological language and concepts which would benefit the spiritual understanding of many Christians if they would familiarize themselves with the cultural cross-pollenation..

however many of your posts are far to deep and dense for people to embrace and understand.  Perhaps you are being counterproductive, and in the process inadvertently reveling in the negative attention? Many Bible Thumpers are this way, they do not read the Bible to actually be heard, in fact quite the opposite, they only read the scriptures to find folks who are NOT listening to have an "ah ha ah ha" fingerpointing and  back patting session in their own hearts and minds.

You have a lot to offer this community, I suggest to slow it down, focus in one specific thing! I love Hindu literature and discussions, but honestly this thread is to long and way to much ground to cover.  Pick any single thing and discuss it would be far more fruitful and well received..
By the way, I am sure you are well read in the works of His Grace Yogananda, who is truly a saint in the fields of bridging the cultural and theological gap between East and West, Christian and Hindu.  Post some of his stuff here and I'm sure more folks might be interested, as you have to  make the connections more obvious, less esoteric.


stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #442 on: November 10, 2010, 04:54:03 PM »

5 star thread! Would read again! (not srs)  police
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« Reply #443 on: November 11, 2010, 01:13:49 AM »



 
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Indeed, I believe that Hinduism and other Far East religions have a delightful and edifying theological ................Post some of his stuff here and I'm sure more folks might be interested, as you have to  make the connections more obvious, less esoteric.


stay blessed,
habte selassie

Thank you very much for your reply.


The one point i was trying to introduce here is that There is only one God and He comes in human form in every human generation to preach the divine knowledge for the upliftment of the souls. Jesus is impartial and He coems in every generation. If you understand this concept you will appreciate Jesus preaching more especially if you read St. John's Gospel. The concept of 'Human Incarnation' is very very important and relevant today.

The human incarnation concept is like this:

God is unimaginable and invisible. This entire creation is His dream or feeling. He enters into His own dream (this world) by coming in human form for preaching the divine knowledge to uplift us. By this one can see, touch, co-live with unimaginable God.

For this purpose, God select a most deserving devotee existing on the earth known as 'Son of God' and enters into Him. Thus Human incarnation results. Thus the Human incarnation is a 2-in-1 system in which Father and Son of God is present in the same human body. The son of GOD component has fully surrendered to the Father, and Father preaches wonderful knowledge through the mouth of Son of God. When Son of God is alive in this world, He is Father Himself, because Father is always present in Son of God.

With this back ground if you read St. Johns Gospel you will appreaciate it more.

What is the necessity of stressing this point now here?

There is a necessity. God has to be there midest us. Only a living God can speak to us directly so that we can hear Him now here on the earth. Only a living God can accept our practical sacrifice directly, thus our love to God is proved practically and it also proves our detachment from the world and attachment to God also.

The Same Jesus comes again and again so that we can practically serve in His mission and prove our love to God practically. Only a living Jesus in human form alone can preach us and clarify all our doubts completely.

This is the essence of the Human Incarnation.
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« Reply #444 on: November 11, 2010, 01:38:22 AM »

What in the Sam Hill is this thread even about?
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« Reply #445 on: November 11, 2010, 01:51:49 AM »

What in the Sam Hill is this thread even about?

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« Reply #446 on: November 11, 2010, 01:52:09 AM »

dattaspammi, Christianity does not teach that a man already alive on earth *became* the Son of God, but that the Son of God - who already existed - became a man, by being born of a woman.

Two different and incompatible beliefs.
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« Reply #447 on: November 11, 2010, 02:37:17 AM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE
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« Reply #448 on: November 11, 2010, 03:12:32 AM »

dattaspammi, Christianity does not teach that a man already alive on earth *became* the Son of God, but that the Son of God - who already existed - became a man, by being born of a woman.

Two different and incompatible beliefs.
Even though GOd is beyond birth and death(no birth no death), the human being into which He enters for His coming to this world has birth and death like an ordinary human being.


This doesnot mean that God is taken birth or God is died when that Son of God takes birth and death.

Even if we consider ourselves, when we die, our body is only dead, the soul in us goes into the upper world. When we take birth our soul which existed in the upperworld has entered into a human body. Thus when an ordinary human being is also taken a fresh body and removed its body while birth and death respectively.

Thus Son of GOD is already existing before and after His birth and death and God enters into Him when He is alive in this world in human body.

Human incarnation is a combination of God and Son of God......
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« Reply #449 on: November 11, 2010, 03:21:44 AM »

dattaspammi, Christianity does not teach that a man already alive on earth *became* the Son of God, but that the Son of God - who already existed - became a man, by being born of a woman.

Two different and incompatible beliefs.
Even though GOd is beyond birth and death(no birth no death), the human being into which He enters for His coming to this world has birth and death like an ordinary human being.


This doesnot mean that God is taken birth or God is died when that Son of God takes birth and death.

Even if we consider ourselves, when we die, our body is only dead, the soul in us goes into the upper world. When we take birth our soul which existed in the upperworld has entered into a human body. Thus when an ordinary human being is also taken a fresh body and removed its body while birth and death respectively.

Thus Son of GOD is already existing before and after His birth and death and God enters into Him when He is alive in this world in human body.

Human incarnation is a combination of God and Son of God......
That's the difference between the fact of the Incarnation and the belief of reincarnation.

Btw, dattaswami, maybe you want to put in your two cents (or two rupees) on this thread:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,31113.0.html
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