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Author Topic: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism  (Read 98913 times) Average Rating: 0
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dattaswami
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« Reply #225 on: October 30, 2010, 12:22:37 PM »



What of the great teachers on non-duality which says God is every where and in each of us?

I will give explanation for this. There is a brach of philosophy called advaita in which they say that every body is God. This is very good argument so that all people become attracted to such path, since the path is very easy and one can become GOd without any effort at all!!


Shankara, preached Advaita mainly to uplift Atheists who existed at that point of time when He came. These atheists could not digest a God other than themselves. Hence God in the form of Shankara came and preached that every body is God, by this these Atheist began love every body since if they are God then they should exhibit the properties of GOd like kindness, loving, helping others etc. By this atheist started loving others.


Shankras disciples also started saying they are also God!. When the disciples of Sankara thought that they are also the Lord, Sankara swallowed the molten lead and asked the disciples to do the same. Then they fell on the feet of Sankara. Then Sankara told "Shivah Kevaloham", which means that only He is Shiva. The word Kevala (only) is important here. Sankara while taking bath in the ocean at Puri told "Oh! Lord! Though the qualitative identity is in between us, the quantitative difference exists. The water is common in both the sea and the wave like the pure awareness in the soul and super soul. But the quantitative difference exists and one should not forget that the entire wave is in the sea but the entire sea is not in the wave".

This is stated as a message for the sake of ordinary soul. These Advaita Scholars filter all the differentiating points and finally get the common point filtered down into the beaker as the filtrate. The differentiating points are the residue on the filter paper and the filtered common point is in the downward beaker. They see only the beaker but not the filter paper. Therefore, the whole spiritual path is twisted and confused almost all the human beings.

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« Reply #226 on: October 30, 2010, 12:30:56 PM »


 Thus Jesus comes in human form in every generation so that you can prove your love to Him practically. Jesus is a practical God not theoretical God. A practical God see the practical aspect of your love. Your prayer forms a very little fraction of your love to God, remaining part is the practical service you do to the present human form of Jesus.

Since God does not change, and His message is indeed universal it doesn't matter (according to Hindu teaching) if I am a devotee of Jesus, krishna, Sathya Sai Baba or Ammachi because they are all teaching the same thing anyways.
That's probably overstating it a bit. There are many traditions within Hinduism that would claim that one particular teaching is in fact the most comprehensive teaching. So, if one wants to worship God in the fullest way, then there is one best way to do that.

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In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
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« Reply #227 on: October 30, 2010, 12:35:24 PM »

I'm intrigued by your knowledge of Hinduism, NP.  Frankly it's a religion I know little about.

Could you perhaps recommend a good basic book about it? Thanks!
I would recommend a commentary on the Vedas and Upanishads by the Catholic priest Raimon Panikkar, who had a Spanish Catholic father and a Hindu mother (or was it a Spanish Catholic mother and a Hindu father?).

Panikkar's book is so highly regarded by many Hindus themselves, that a Hindu website has a copy of the book free, online. I personally find Panikkar to be a Christian who deeply understands, and appreciates, the Hindu tradition -- undoubtedly due to his own personal Hindu heritage.

Panikkar's commentary is huge. You can pretty jump in on any section that interests you.

There's also a Hindu-Christian comparison, prepared by the Himalayan Academy and the editors at Christianity Today.
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dattaswami
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« Reply #228 on: October 30, 2010, 12:37:06 PM »


 Jesus never claimed such importance for himself, but rather when someone came to him saying "good teacher" Jesus replied, "Why do you call me good, only God is good!" Yes, we believe Jesus was God Incarnate, but He claimed no glory for himself.

That is a good point. I will explain.

A rich person came to Jesus. He was very well established in Pravrutti (like obeying all the laws of God etc). But He was very rich person. Even though he is very good person, he is not given salvation. Jesus invited him for that. But due to his over attachemnt to wealth name fame etc he could not accepts Jesus invitation, which inovles lot of PRACTICAL SACRIFICE then and there itself infront of Jesus.


Even though that person is a very good justice following person, he could not identify Jesus as God Himself. But that sinner lady identified Jesus as God Himself and practically brought very costly scent and applied on His body. That lady did not do any social service. She knew that God is even higher than soceity. Even some of the diciplse of Jesus critisised and recommended social service to her rather than serviing Jesus the Human form of God. She recognised Jesus as God in Human form and loved Him and shown the love PRACTICALLY by sacrifice of money she possed. Due to her practical love which is even more than love to soceity, quickly her sins were taken upon Jesus body and Jesus suffered with pain for her, for such a real devotee who recognised the God in human form standing infront of here, looking like a mere human being.

Ofcourse, Jesus do not need such service, but Jesus allowed the service to give satisfaction to her. Her love to God was practically and the result was also practical by Jesus, Jesus took the sins on His body and suffered and cleared her debts.


One should remember that she do not aspire to remove her sins using Jesus, rather she loved Jesus. Loving Jesus means loving GOd in Human form.

But such thing will not happen with that rich person. Jesus did not tell that He is God in human form to that person. Why. Because even though that person was very good, he cannot digest such higher truth Human incarnation or God coming in human form. He considered Jesus as a mere guru or teacher for some advice. He did not consider Him as God Himself.

Hence according to the level of that person Jesus told to passify His jealosy and egoism, Jesus told, why are you calling Me as a good, only God is good. Jesus used or acted like this so that He is only a guru and God is separately existing some where; Jesus gave such notion to that person, because his level deservers such knoweldge only. He did not tell I am God to that rich person.

But He quickly seen that his attchment to welath is more than his attachment to God. Hence, He attacked at his highest attachment which is wealth. But that rich person could not follow Jesus practically and leave the wealth and follow then human incarnation practically.

Since Jesus is a practical God, the rich man could not get salvation. How can he get salvation, when his attachemnt to wealth is more than his attachment to God.He is bound and did not get salvation even though Jesus invited him.......
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dattaswami
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« Reply #229 on: October 30, 2010, 12:43:28 PM »

I'm intrigued by your knowledge of Hinduism, NP.  Frankly it's a religion I know little about.

Could you perhaps recommend a good basic book about it? Thanks!

You can read my divine knoweldge which covers manily, Hinduism and Christainity.

The main aspect is about GOd coming in human form in every generation.

I request you to first read the bellow book which is very few in page numbers you can quickly read t:
http://www.esnips.com/doc/8f300f06-1b7b-4b79-82d5-8ab1755775f6/Some-jewels-of-divine-knoweldge


Discourses:

 http://www.esnips.com/doc/76b372e0-6a84-4061-80a6-a35ae4c2cd66/Divine-Discourses-Vol-1
  http://www.esnips.com/doc/721c7010-0b18-4107-ba9e-ca837c188a30/Divine-Discourses-Vol--2

  http://www.esnips.com/doc/34f6104b-5ef7-4483-bf45-1d1e7b964f56/Divine-Discourses-Vol-3

  http://www.esnips.com/doc/267ed374-c01a-4581-9f85-fd638b911836/Divine-Discourses-Vol-4

  http://www.esnips.com/doc/78a84713-9718-4649-b842-b3a943e143f1/Divine-Discourses-Vol-5

  http://www.esnips.com/doc/12591fb0-d34c-4e9e-822f-5dc262629c08/Divine-Discourses-Vol-6

  http://www.esnips.com/doc/1028ab90-2047-4e7b-ac3f-20238a42cd52/Divine-Discourses-Vol-7

  http://www.esnips.com/doc/76f61d55-c22d-41af-8ed6-c8019c0b5816/Divine-Discourse---VIII

  http://www.esnips.com/doc/f2cf6d69-3798-4ef8-a04e-8ef7617112b9/Divine-Discourses-Vol-9

  http://www.esnips.com/doc/ed1dc3ab-a1e0-4c4f-a674-f3100fafc0db/Divine-Discourses-Vol-10

http://www.esnips.com/doc/39acff65-410c-460d-a649-fcf170ab70f0/Parabrahma-Sutras

Free  MP3 Bhajans

 http://www.esnips.com/doc/85bbd312-1562-419c-86a3-6ee985a2d457/Mahima-Yamuna


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dattaswami
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« Reply #230 on: October 30, 2010, 12:48:10 PM »

I'm intrigued by your knowledge of Hinduism, NP.  Frankly it's a religion I know little about.

Could you perhaps recommend a good basic book about it? Thanks!

U-Tube Videos

http://in.youtube.com/user/Dattaswami

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http://www.gurusfeet.com/quotes/1127

Blogs:

http://www.gurusfeet.com/blogs/dattaswami2

http://dattaswami.sulekha.com/blog/posts.htm
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« Reply #231 on: October 30, 2010, 12:54:04 PM »

I am skeptical of anyone who comes right out and says, "I am an Incarnation of God, worship and serve me!"

Your fundamental questions is why to serve Present Human form of God. Is it not sufficient to serve past human incarnations. You can never serve an invisible God and past human incarnations. Let me expalin about Pravrutti and Nivrutti then your piont will get cleared.

Pravrutti is the field of worldly matters involving bonds with your body and family members, which is limited to the present birth only. Nivrutti is the field of spiritual matters involving bonds with God and devotees, which is related to every birth of the soul continuously. The basic frame work is the same in both the fields. In both the fields, knowledge, devotion, work, sacrifice and the final fruit for sacrifice are common. In Pravrutti the knowledge gives the identification of your self and your family members. You will distinguish your family members as your dear and near from the outsiders to whom you are neutral. Similarly in Nivrutti the knowledge gives the identification of human form of God and identification of good deserving devotees and they are distinguished from the general lot of humanity.

The second step is devotion which is nothing but intensive love. In Pravrutti, once you have recognized your family members, you will develop intensive love on them. Similarly, in Nivrutti the devotion is developed on living human form of God and other devotees. Therefore, in Pravrutti the goal is yourself and your family members.  In the Nivrutti the goal is living human form of God and devotees. In both, the goal is a living human forms only and not non-living objects. The need of non-living objects is also realized when these objects are used for developing the concept of devotion.

Let us take an example in Pravrutti. A person was served for a long time by a non-living car used as vehicle. He does not want to sell the car even though it is not working. The non-living car does not recognize the value shown by him. But still, the concept of gratefulness to long service is built-up in the mind of the owner. Similarly in Nivrutti, the concept of devotion is built up based on non-living items like statues and photos. It is true that neither the car nor the statue or photo recognizes nor responds in any way. But inspite of that defect, the concept of gratitude and the concept of devotion are built up in this model based training. Except this advantage of building up the good concepts, no practical fruit is possible in this stage.

Question: Car is a non-living item and does not represent any body. But the statue or photo is a representative model of omniscient God, who recongnises the concept and awards the devotee with a practical fruit. Therefore, there is a difference between the examples of Pravrutti and Nivrutti in this aspect.

Answer: We agree with the difference. But there is no difference in the final result. The omniscient God understands well that theoretical devotion alone is built up and not the practical sacrifice or service. (if you do theorectical service only to past human incarnation)Therefore, the omniscient God will not reward the theoretical devotion with a practical fruit. A foolish king may reward a fellow on hearing that he worshiped the photo of the king. Since God is omniscient, in your own words, God is very careful to reward the practical service only. Hence in building up the concept and in not rewarding the practical fruit, both the examples are similar. For us both these points are important which are not disturbed at all by the difference raised by you.

In this stage of building up the concepts using the inanimate objects, which is called as Pratika-Upasanam or model worship, the generation of a strong feeling and its intensification take place and both these are also important. The strong feeling or mind alone can generate the practical service. Though the concept is built up with the help of inert items, the concept is applied to living beings only. After developing the concept of gratefulness to service with the help of the inert car, the owner starts applying this intensified concept to the living people who have served him for a long time. Such application alone brings the response.

 Similarly, after developing the concept of devotion in Nivrutti with the help of statues, the strong devotion should be applied to the human form of the Lord and the devoted human beings. The practical devotion is also trained with the help of non-living items. The owner daily washes the car and keeps it in a covered place with utmost care. This is the practical service to be applied to the living beings.

Similarly the practical service done to the statues is to be applied to God in human form and devotees. Without application to living form, no fruit can be expected and even the response is impossible. The worship of the living human incarnation and the living devotees is called as Sakshaat-Upasanam or direct worship. The model worship must be transformed into direct worship as early as possible for attaining fruit. Otherwise, remaining constantly in the model worship is totally meaningless.  In the institute of teacher-training, the candidate is expected to teach certain model classes for which the trainee is not paid salary. After the training, the candidate teaches the actual classes in the institution and gets salary.
 
After developing the concept of love to family in Pravrutti and devotion to God in Nivrutti, one has to enter the third stage of doing work by which the fruits are earned. In Pravrutti the work and the fruits of work are sacrificed to yourself and your family members. Such work is called as mere karma. In Nivrutti the same work and fruits of work are sacrificed to serve the human incarnation of the Lord, His devotees and for His divine mission to uplift the world. The same work in the field of Nivrutti is called as Karma Yoga. There is no difference between work and fruit of work, because the fruit of work is a product of the work only. A saint can sacrifice work only, since he does not earn any fruit for his work. Therefore, Karma Sanyasa or sacrifice of work is meant for his case only. The word Sanyasa indicates this point. A retired father without earning tries to sacrifice work by taking the grand children to the school etc. His case is like the case of a saint in Nivrutti. A house holder is capable of Karma Sanyasa and Karma Phala Tyaga or sacrifice of fruit of work. A father takes his children to the school (Karma Sanyasa) and also spends on their education from his earnings (Karma Phala Tyaga) in Pravrutti. Similar is the case of a house holder in Nivrutti, proceeding in the spiritual path.
   
The final step in both Pravrutti and Nivrutti is sacrifice of work or fruit of work or both. The sacrifice alone can bring the fruit in both. If you earn the fruit by work and bury all that in a pot, the fruit is not attained, because you have stopped in the third stage of work only. Therefore, the final stage is sacrifice, which alone can bring the fruit in both Pravrutti and Nivrutti. Even to yourself, you have to sacrifice the money (fruit of work) to maintain your basic life. If you do not sacrifice to yourself, even your life is endangered. Therefore, knowledge, devotion, work and sacrifice are the four stages in Pravrutti as well as Nivrutti. Pravrutti and Nivrutti oppose each other if yourself and your family members are not devoted to God. Even the distant bonds in Pravrutti (relatives) are strong and not to speak of close bonds (wife, children, parents, brothers and sisters).

Arjuna was unable to cut even the distant bonds in Pravrutti and refused to fight the war in the beginning. Again after some days, when his son died in the war, he refused to fight the war. Thus Arjuna tried to drop from the war in two instances. In the first instance, he tried to sacrifice the wealth (kingdom) for the sake of distant bonds. In the second instance, he tried to leave the war even though he realized it as the work of God for the sake of close bond. The close bond (son) is so powerful that even God was set aside! People are doing lot of corruption even without fearing for the hell for the sake of close bonds! People are selecting a non-merit candidate, since the candidate is their distant relative. If you cannot sacrifice even the distant bond, you have not understood even the first chapter of Gita. How can you understand the other chapters of Gita, which are at far higher level?
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« Reply #232 on: October 30, 2010, 01:00:56 PM »

God will feel happy if the souls are happy even if human incarnation is not recognised

Even if the human incarnation is not recognized and not served, God will feel happy if the souls are happy. The father feels happy if the children are settled and peaceful living with happiness, even if they are not recognizing and serving Him when He comes to their house. Therefore God will not mistake you if you do not recognize and serve Him when He comes to your world in human form. He will feel happy if you are living with happiness. Therefore, He thinks about the ways by which you will be settled and live with happiness. He will not mention about the duty to serve Him when you are disturbed in this world.

 Arjuna was very much disturbed and therefore the Lord started with self-attainment (Atma Yoga) only, which is the way to attain happiness and peace. He did not start with the sacrifice or service to God (Paramatma Yoga). When the child is disturbed, it needs the help from the parents in the form of sacrifice of work or sacrifice of wealth. Initially the parents help the child by doing both these but this cannot be continuous. As the child grows, he or she has to stand on own legs and settle in life. After such settled life only, the parents expect the child to serve them.

Similarly the soul has to attain peace and happiness standing on its own legs and this is the second chapter of Gita in which the self-sufficiency is to be achieved without any dependence. In Atma Yoga, the Lord in the second chapter of Gita taught about the self-realization which is the attainment of peace and happiness with the self-effort. When the life is settled, the issues are expected to serve the parents by sacrificing work (Karma Sanyasa) and by sacrificing fruit of work (Karma Phala Tyaga). The parents are not in need of any wealth. Still they are the owners of the property. They are only happy if your love towards them is proved through the above-mentioned practical sacrifice.

 Similarly the Lord is not in need of your service. The Lord desires to taste your love and feels happy through such sacrifice. In fact you are earning only due to the sacrifice of parents. Similarly all your wealth belongs to the Lord only. But the dualism is maintained because the taste of love exists only in the ignorance that is dualism. You have earned some money. The flesh of your body that is working is from your mother. The talent by which you are earning is from the wealth of your father. If you realize this and serve the parents, there is no real taste of love. Similarly the parents also realize that truth, there is no taste of love to them also. They can enjoy the love of their children only when they think that the children are sacrificing their hard-earned money in the parent’s service.

 Similarly, if the parents think that the earnings of the children are only due to their help, they cannot enjoy the real love. Therefore, the real love is enjoyed only in the ignorance (Avidya). But if the children became ungrateful, then the parents have to educate them with the truth (Vidya). The Lord says in Gita that both Vidya and Avidya are created by Him only which are meaningful in their own contexts (Mattah Smrutir…..). Thus the Lord preaches the Atma Yoga in the beginning which is the attainment of peace and happiness by self-realization and then only proceeded with Paramatma Yoga which is the field of service and sacrifice to the Lord after settlement. If Gita stops with the second chapter, the story ends with Atma Yoga only which is the settlement of life of the children. If the story stops there, it would be Gita preached to the ungrateful ghosts and demons. Therefore, the other sixteen chapters of Gita concentrated on Paramatma-Yoga which is the sacrifice and service to the God when He comes to this world of human beings in human form.

 But if you see the stories of human incarnation which is the same as that of the parents visiting the houses of their well settled children, the behaviour of the children proves worse than the nature of even the wild animals. Jesus was crucified! Krishna was shot dead! Sankara was killed by black magic!

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dattaswami
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« Reply #233 on: October 30, 2010, 01:02:58 PM »

You cannot become Para Brahman (The Absolute God)


My divine knowledge previously spoken to devotees:


You can become Krishna or Jesus(Human Incarnation of God) but you cannot become Para Brahman because even Krishna or Jesus did not become Para Brahman. No alive wire is transformed in to current directly. To become Para Brahman is the impossible highest goal and this is a defect even in Krishna or Jesus. If you want to become greater than Krishna or Jesus, this means that your ambition is always endless. Therefore, Satguru reveals the truth only when the deservingness is completed. If you desire to become greater than Krishna or Jesus, then the best medicine for you is only to say that you can never become Krishna or Jesus. Therefore, to reveal this divine secret that you can become Krishna is always hidden by Me till now.

When the goal is impossible it is not a goal at all. Even in Krishna or Jesus God pervaded all over the body and soul of Krishna or Jesus and God entered Krishna or Jesus like the current in the alive wire. The word Ashritam in the verse means entry of God into human being and not becoming human being. It is clarified that entry of current into wire does not mean that current became the wire (Avyaktam Vyaktimapannam….Gita). From the angle of this point only, Mohammad said that God can never become the human being. Jesus, who was just before Mohammad, was misunderstood in this point only and was crucified. For all practical purposes the alive wire is current and similarly for all worship and service the human incarnation is God for devotees. There is no other way than this to serve and experience God directly without the medium (Nanyah Panthah….Veda).
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« Reply #234 on: October 30, 2010, 01:06:32 PM »

You write funny things.
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« Reply #235 on: October 30, 2010, 01:08:34 PM »

You write funny things.
Cheesy

Seriously though, stop hogging the shrooms.  Angry
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« Reply #236 on: October 30, 2010, 01:13:19 PM »

You write funny things.
How can it be funny!
Human incarnation is a 2-in-1 system in which GOd and Son of God exists together. God is not convereted into Son of God or vice versa. But when Son of gOD is alive in this world He is God Himself because God is alive in Him all the time, Hence He is God Himself.
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« Reply #237 on: October 30, 2010, 01:21:20 PM »



Is this the person to whom you are pointing, dear Swami?



When I said that God is in my human body, who is delivering the spiritual knowledge, my reference is my devotees who strongly believe me in spite of my several objections. My statements vary according to the level of the devotees. Some times I say that I am devotee or a messenger to ordinary people. I say that God is in me to the devotees who have partial faith in me. I say that the God pervaded all over my body and became one with me to strong devotees who have reached the climax of the faith. Jesus also told like this to different levels of devotees.

He claimed himself as messenger of God to lower devotees. To the middle level He claimed that He is son of the God. To the top devotees He claimed that He and His father are one and the same. You should not transfer one statement from one level to the other level. In my case, for your information, I say every one that I am just a devotee of God. But the devotees forced me with their opinions and finally I responded according to their firmness of faith. Even there I tried my level best to distort their faith through several tests. Therefore, you cannot generalise my statements to all the humanity. In fact you cannot generalise the statements of Jesus also to the entire humanity because all the human beings have not believed Jesus. Only some believed and His statements relate to such fraction of devotees only.


Real human incarnation will not say that He is God

   Even the real human incarnation will not say that it is God. Krishna never said that He is God except on one specified occasion, which is preaching Gita to Arjuna. The human incarnation is a two component system in one phase. It is like the alloy of Gold and Copper existing in single phase. When God enters a liberated soul, which is a human being, the human incarnation results. The human incarnation appears as an ordinary human being only. When copper is alloyed with a trace of gold, it appears as copper only. Unless you see it through a powerful microscope, you will not be able to find out the existence of gold in it. Similarly, the human incarnation appears as human being only and unless you are capable of intensive spiritual analysis with the help of scriptures, you will not be able to find out the existence of God in the human incarnation.

Even in the  human incarnation, the human being continuously exhibits its own inherent characteristics like birth, death, illness, thirst, hunger, sex, sleep etc., for all practical purposes and one in millions only will be able to recognize the God in it as said in Gita (Kashchitmam…). This type of concept is required because the human beings should be able to approach freely the human incarnation without anxiety and tension to clarify all the doubts. The human behavior in the human incarnation puts down the tension since you treat him as a co-human being only.


Hence I am not tell you that I am the present Human form of God!
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« Reply #238 on: October 30, 2010, 01:23:28 PM »

I watched on U-tube the complete English subtitled version of Maharabat, i liked the series very much ,the tradition the costumes ,The respect for Elders..
But couldn't Accept Krishna as a god Or a Incarnation of the one or of any god ..But a Demon..

Iv'e Heard Or Maybe Read it ,that Krishna Married 1000 or 10,000 woman then he killed them...

Jesus wouldn't of Done that, because he came into the world  to redeem and not to destroy.......

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ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
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« Reply #239 on: October 30, 2010, 01:25:27 PM »

The significance of present human incarnation


When you read the scriptures, which are the discourses of past human incarnations, you will get so many doubts demanding clarification. If the original Lord is not available, we have to depend on other fellow human beings for clarifications. Suppose you are studying a correspondence course. When you get a doubt, you have to depend on your classmate, who is studying the course similarly. He is not competent to clarify your doubts and you will be poisoned by his wrong interpretations. Suppose you are studying the same course in a college and the lecturer is explaining in the class. Whenever you get a doubt, you can ask him then and there and you will surely get the correct interpretation at the correct moment.

 The clarification is important at the correct moment because without clarification the latter part of the lecture may not be understood or may be misunderstood. Such a facility does not exist with past human incarnations and past scriptures. In this light alone, Jesus modified all the Old Testament and gave the correct interpretation as and when people asked Him questions and doubts. If Jesus is not in the present generation, He must be blamed for being partial towards that generation alone. However God is impartial and therefore comes in every generation.

The present generation is very much blessed because of the facility of computer technology. You can clarify your doubts through this computer system without any strain of traveling to the human incarnation in person. All the divine preachers in this world are in contact with God and are doing the divine preaching to various levels of devotees. Their preachings may be mixed with some ignorance and it is not their fault because such mixing with ignorance in various proportions is required for various lower levels of human beings. The complete and pure knowledge without any trace of ignorance can be grasped only by a very few highest devotees. The number of advanced research students studying under a professor is always very small. Therefore the direct human incarnation is recognized by a very few top level devotees only.

The number of elementary school students are always many and the number of elementary school teachers are also many. As you rise in the level, the number of students and the number of professors become lesser and lesser. Therefore you should not aspire for a large number of followers. For the direct human incarnation, there will be only a very few deserving devotees of such a top level. But such top devotees are spread here and there all over the world. Therefore there is a necessity for propagating the top most divine knowledge of the top most human incarnation, all over the world. But the number of followers will not be high but will be the very least. Jesus said that His path is very narrow and that only very few people travel on it.

 Lord Krishna has told in the Gita that only one in millions can perfectly understand Him (Kashchit Mam Vetti…). Therefore the aim of the topmost human incarnation is not to have a large number of followers, since it is impossible. The aim is only to see that the topmost knowledge reaches the few deserving devotees, who are spread all over the world here and there. If you wish to have a large number of followers, then divine knowledge has to be adulterated with ignorance. The naked truth should not be exposed in such a case. Diamonds are always in few in number whereas gravel stones are many.

The lower level devotees and the lower level school teachers should not be criticized. The levels of school, college and university are obviously required due to the existence of human beings in the corresponding levels. Therefore you should not criticize the students in schools and colleges. Today you are a student of a university. But one day you were in the school and in the college. Without the guidance of the school teacher and the college lecturer you could not have entered the university. The direct human incarnation of the Lord is the topmost professor, who has a few post graduate and research level students. God, being the head of the university level in spirituality, the schools and colleges are affiliated to the university and work under His leadership. It is the huge system of divine preachers.

The school teachers and the college lecturers are working under the guidance and will of that Professor alone. The system is split to suit the various levels but there is no split in the preachers. The whole system of divine preachers is perfectly working due to the grace of that Supreme Preacher. There is no split in the preachers. Mixing up ignorance with knowledge is inevitable and is done according to the level of the students.

There is only one Supreme Preacher in a generation and He will be covering all the preachers and religions under the concept of Universal Spirituality. Some lower preachers may oppose this concept and it is not the fault of those preachers. Since the students of some lower levels do not agree to this concept, those preachers have to proceed according to their psychology. The supreme preacher knows this fact and only smiles, if any preacher of a lower level opposes this concept.

It is by the internal wish of Supreme Preacher only, that preacher opposes Him so that he can have a grip on his students who are of a lower level and do not like this concept. It is a very long journey to transform the entire Universe and make it realize this concept of Universal Spirituality. But one day or other this divine goal will be achieved and the entire world will be like one family with one Divine Father. The various cultures and religions need not disappear. But the innermost single continuous thread of the garland of gems with various colors will be realized by every human being of this universe. Such a state is called as WORLD PEACE.

Please remember that the divine preachers in this entire Universe are not at all split. They appear as if they are split in order to have a grip on their corresponding students, who are really split.

All these divine preachers are connected by their innermost souls and are working by the grace of that Supreme preacher, who is the Lord in human form. The difference in the preachers is only apparent to satisfy the different psychologies of the followers. One preacher may criticize another preacher in order to satisfy his followers but all these divine preachers are internally united and are working on the single program of transforming this entire world to realize the Universal Spirituality, which is the Absolute Truth like the one Absolute God.

All the original preachers like Krishna, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammad etc. are brilliant diamonds and all their followers are like black pieces of charcoal. The diamond and charcoal are made of the same carbon atoms. Similarly the preacher and the follower are human beings. In the diamond there is a regular crystal structure. The charcoal is amorphous, without any crystal structure. Thus the correct logical interpretation makes the scripture shine like a brilliant diamond. The same scripture without regular logical interpretation becomes a black charcoal.
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« Reply #240 on: October 30, 2010, 01:30:25 PM »

I watched on U-tube the complete English subtitled version of Maharabat, i liked the series very much ,the tradition the costumes ,The respect for Elders..
But couldn't Accept Krishna as a god Or a Incarnation of the one or of any god ..But a Demon..

Iv'e Heard Or Maybe Read it ,that Krishna Married 1000 or 10,000 woman then he killed them...
Stashko, where did you read/hear this? If you're going to criticize Hinduism, which is perfectly right to do, you might want to at least make sure you get your facts straight. So where did you get this bit of info?
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« Reply #241 on: October 30, 2010, 01:38:25 PM »

I watched on U-tube the complete English subtitled version of Maharabat, i liked the series very much ,the tradition the costumes ,The respect for Elders..
But couldn't Accept Krishna as a god Or a Incarnation of the one or of any god ..But a Demon..

Iv'e Heard Or Maybe Read it ,that Krishna Married 1000 or 10,000 woman then he killed them...
Stashko, where did you read/hear this? If you're going to criticize Hinduism, which is perfectly right to do, you might want to at least make sure you get your facts straight. So where did you get this bit of info?

It maybe In Maharabat series ,that was Aired On U-tube.....It's been a while since i watched it...
Conn---what amased me though, was that Bodies were just considered vehicles for the soul and weren't important ,or considered temples of the Holy Spirit. but just to be discarded and you get another one in your reincarnation...

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« Reply #242 on: October 30, 2010, 01:40:43 PM »

You write funny things.
How can it be funny!
Human incarnation is a 2-in-1 system in which GOd and Son of God exists together. God is not convereted into Son of God or vice versa. But when Son of gOD is alive in this world He is God Himself because God is alive in Him all the time, Hence He is God Himself.

Because Christians don't believe the Son of God was the son because he was incarnate. He was the son prior to incarnation, during incarnation, and after incarnation. He is a part of the triune God.
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« Reply #243 on: October 30, 2010, 01:51:35 PM »

I watched on U-tube the complete English subtitled version of Maharabat, i liked the series very much ,the tradition the costumes ,The respect for Elders..
But couldn't Accept Krishna as a god Or a Incarnation of the one or of any god ..But a Demon..

Iv'e Heard Or Maybe Read it ,that Krishna Married 1000 or 10,000 woman then he killed them...
Stashko, where did you read/hear this? If you're going to criticize Hinduism, which is perfectly right to do, you might want to at least make sure you get your facts straight. So where did you get this bit of info?

It maybe In Maharabat series ,that was Aired On U-tube.....It's been a while since i watched it...
"It has to be true! I watched it on youtube!" Roll Eyes
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« Reply #244 on: October 30, 2010, 02:05:37 PM »

Its a mega Production from india about their god Krishna ,that was aired with english subtittles on u-tube....The series goes from One to One Hundred maybe  more  .... Grin



I watched on U-tube the complete English subtitled version of Maharabat, i liked the series very much ,the tradition the costumes ,The respect for Elders..
But couldn't Accept Krishna as a god Or a Incarnation of the one or of any god ..But a Demon..

Iv'e Heard Or Maybe Read it ,that Krishna Married 1000 or 10,000 woman then he killed them...
Stashko, where did you read/hear this? If you're going to criticize Hinduism, which is perfectly right to do, you might want to at least make sure you get your facts straight. So where did you get this bit of info?

It maybe In Maharabat series ,that was Aired On U-tube.....It's been a while since i watched it...
"It has to be true! I watched it on youtube!" Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: October 30, 2010, 02:08:31 PM by stashko » Logged

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« Reply #245 on: October 30, 2010, 02:19:38 PM »

Let's cut to the chase.  Who is the present incarnation of Jesus?

I have already answered, in other posts...Please refer it.....
I haven't read your many other posts.  I don't have the time.  So, perhaps, you could answer my question, rather than blather on.
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« Reply #246 on: October 30, 2010, 02:28:27 PM »

Hugh Morris MUST be a deity!  He's flaunted the warnings and forum rules waay more than I thought was humanly possible and he's still here!  Viva Hugh Morris!  Viva Hugh Morris!  Viva Hugh Morris!
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« Reply #247 on: October 30, 2010, 02:32:44 PM »

Data Pastrami, aka Hugh Morris, now has us attacking each other all the while flaunting his warning status and ignoring forum rules.  This cat is either an uber clever dude or he really is a deity.  My vote goes for deity!  Viva Hugh Morris!  Viva Data Pastrami!
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« Reply #248 on: October 30, 2010, 02:42:17 PM »

This is starting to get a little ridiculous.  Angry You aren't here to ask questions, nor is your mind open to any critique regarding your views. It appears that you don't even care about what the Orthodox point of view is regarding your 'belief system'. You are here simply to proselytize, not to learn. Admit it already.
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« Reply #249 on: October 30, 2010, 02:43:39 PM »

I am skeptical of anyone who comes right out and says, "I am an Incarnation of God, worship and serve me!"

Your fundamental questions is why to serve Present Human form of God. Is it not sufficient to serve past human incarnations. You can never serve an invisible God and past human incarnations. Let me expalin about Pravrutti and Nivrutti then your piont will get cleared.

Pravrutti is the field of worldly matters involving bonds with your body and family members, which is limited to the present birth only. Nivrutti is the field of spiritual matters involving bonds with God and devotees, which is related to every birth of the soul continuously. The basic frame work is the same in both the fields. In both the fields, knowledge, devotion, work, sacrifice and the final fruit for sacrifice are common. In Pravrutti the knowledge gives the identification of your self and your family members. You will distinguish your family members as your dear and near from the outsiders to whom you are neutral. Similarly in Nivrutti the knowledge gives the identification of human form of God and identification of good deserving devotees and they are distinguished from the general lot of humanity.

The second step is devotion which is nothing but intensive love. In Pravrutti, once you have recognized your family members, you will develop intensive love on them. Similarly, in Nivrutti the devotion is developed on living human form of God and other devotees. Therefore, in Pravrutti the goal is yourself and your family members.  In the Nivrutti the goal is living human form of God and devotees. In both, the goal is a living human forms only and not non-living objects. The need of non-living objects is also realized when these objects are used for developing the concept of devotion.

Let us take an example in Pravrutti. A person was served for a long time by a non-living car used as vehicle. He does not want to sell the car even though it is not working. The non-living car does not recognize the value shown by him. But still, the concept of gratefulness to long service is built-up in the mind of the owner. Similarly in Nivrutti, the concept of devotion is built up based on non-living items like statues and photos. It is true that neither the car nor the statue or photo recognizes nor responds in any way. But inspite of that defect, the concept of gratitude and the concept of devotion are built up in this model based training. Except this advantage of building up the good concepts, no practical fruit is possible in this stage.

Question: Car is a non-living item and does not represent any body. But the statue or photo is a representative model of omniscient God, who recongnises the concept and awards the devotee with a practical fruit. Therefore, there is a difference between the examples of Pravrutti and Nivrutti in this aspect.

Answer: We agree with the difference. But there is no difference in the final result. The omniscient God understands well that theoretical devotion alone is built up and not the practical sacrifice or service. (if you do theorectical service only to past human incarnation)Therefore, the omniscient God will not reward the theoretical devotion with a practical fruit. A foolish king may reward a fellow on hearing that he worshiped the photo of the king. Since God is omniscient, in your own words, God is very careful to reward the practical service only. Hence in building up the concept and in not rewarding the practical fruit, both the examples are similar. For us both these points are important which are not disturbed at all by the difference raised by you.

In this stage of building up the concepts using the inanimate objects, which is called as Pratika-Upasanam or model worship, the generation of a strong feeling and its intensification take place and both these are also important. The strong feeling or mind alone can generate the practical service. Though the concept is built up with the help of inert items, the concept is applied to living beings only. After developing the concept of gratefulness to service with the help of the inert car, the owner starts applying this intensified concept to the living people who have served him for a long time. Such application alone brings the response.

 Similarly, after developing the concept of devotion in Nivrutti with the help of statues, the strong devotion should be applied to the human form of the Lord and the devoted human beings. The practical devotion is also trained with the help of non-living items. The owner daily washes the car and keeps it in a covered place with utmost care. This is the practical service to be applied to the living beings.

Similarly the practical service done to the statues is to be applied to God in human form and devotees. Without application to living form, no fruit can be expected and even the response is impossible. The worship of the living human incarnation and the living devotees is called as Sakshaat-Upasanam or direct worship. The model worship must be transformed into direct worship as early as possible for attaining fruit. Otherwise, remaining constantly in the model worship is totally meaningless.  In the institute of teacher-training, the candidate is expected to teach certain model classes for which the trainee is not paid salary. After the training, the candidate teaches the actual classes in the institution and gets salary.
 
After developing the concept of love to family in Pravrutti and devotion to God in Nivrutti, one has to enter the third stage of doing work by which the fruits are earned. In Pravrutti the work and the fruits of work are sacrificed to yourself and your family members. Such work is called as mere karma. In Nivrutti the same work and fruits of work are sacrificed to serve the human incarnation of the Lord, His devotees and for His divine mission to uplift the world. The same work in the field of Nivrutti is called as Karma Yoga. There is no difference between work and fruit of work, because the fruit of work is a product of the work only. A saint can sacrifice work only, since he does not earn any fruit for his work. Therefore, Karma Sanyasa or sacrifice of work is meant for his case only. The word Sanyasa indicates this point. A retired father without earning tries to sacrifice work by taking the grand children to the school etc. His case is like the case of a saint in Nivrutti. A house holder is capable of Karma Sanyasa and Karma Phala Tyaga or sacrifice of fruit of work. A father takes his children to the school (Karma Sanyasa) and also spends on their education from his earnings (Karma Phala Tyaga) in Pravrutti. Similar is the case of a house holder in Nivrutti, proceeding in the spiritual path.
   
The final step in both Pravrutti and Nivrutti is sacrifice of work or fruit of work or both. The sacrifice alone can bring the fruit in both. If you earn the fruit by work and bury all that in a pot, the fruit is not attained, because you have stopped in the third stage of work only. Therefore, the final stage is sacrifice, which alone can bring the fruit in both Pravrutti and Nivrutti. Even to yourself, you have to sacrifice the money (fruit of work) to maintain your basic life. If you do not sacrifice to yourself, even your life is endangered. Therefore, knowledge, devotion, work and sacrifice are the four stages in Pravrutti as well as Nivrutti. Pravrutti and Nivrutti oppose each other if yourself and your family members are not devoted to God. Even the distant bonds in Pravrutti (relatives) are strong and not to speak of close bonds (wife, children, parents, brothers and sisters).

Arjuna was unable to cut even the distant bonds in Pravrutti and refused to fight the war in the beginning. Again after some days, when his son died in the war, he refused to fight the war. Thus Arjuna tried to drop from the war in two instances. In the first instance, he tried to sacrifice the wealth (kingdom) for the sake of distant bonds. In the second instance, he tried to leave the war even though he realized it as the work of God for the sake of close bond. The close bond (son) is so powerful that even God was set aside! People are doing lot of corruption even without fearing for the hell for the sake of close bonds! People are selecting a non-merit candidate, since the candidate is their distant relative. If you cannot sacrifice even the distant bond, you have not understood even the first chapter of Gita. How can you understand the other chapters of Gita, which are at far higher level?


There is only one God: the Holy Trinity.

The Holy Trinity is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Son of God, Jesus Christ, was always the Son. He is eternally begotten of His Father.

He was incarnate once and only once. That occurred around 1 AD. He ascended into Heaven around 33 AD.

He left behind His Body, the Church. We know God by meeting Christ in the Church. We interact with Incarnate God when we partake of the Holy Eucharist, which is the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. (We have no need for other incarnations of God, for the first and only incarnation destroyed death and gave us the Church and the Sacraments.)

Jesus Christ, Incarnate God, will descend once again to earth at the Second and Glorious Coming. The dead will be raised, all mankind will be judged, and Christ will dwell with man eternally in his Kingdom come to earth.

There is no place for other incarnations in Christianity. None. You are wasting your time. From an Orthodox point of view, your claiming to be God is delusional at best, or demonic at worst.
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« Reply #250 on: October 30, 2010, 02:46:48 PM »

He thinks he is God. How can his beliefs possibly be open to critique, in his mind?
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« Reply #251 on: October 30, 2010, 02:49:08 PM »

Let's cut to the chase.  Who is the present incarnation of Jesus?

There is a basic fundamental in your question.. Because any body can proclaim himself as God, but how to identify it?

The only identification mark is the true divine knowledge which God alone can preach. Even demons do miracles by they are not God, why because they do not posses divine knoweldge. They got the power to do the miracles from, GOd by doing penance and due to their rigidity, God gave them those powers. God in human form also can perform miracles but He never do it for crowd pulling and fame. THE only point which identify God in human form as God is the divine knowledge He preaches. Then who will decide that that divine knowledge is correct? You yourself, your inner conciousness will tell you this knoweldge is correct or not.

God never preach foolishness. He never tell, follow Me blindly. His divine knowledge is like double edged sword, which cuts the ignorance or doubts of a person. It is like fire which burns the ignorance of us.

Yohanann, came before Jesus. He could not preach the true divine knoweldge , he could only preach the knoweldge with lesser truth and lot of ignorance and it is like water. But Jesus then Human incarnation preached fire. Here fire means true divine knoweldge which removes all our doubts since it contains 100% truth and not polluted at all. Such divine knoweldge removes all our doubts completely and our devotion to GOd will increase and attain a maxiumum....
"For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if possible, even the elect." ~Mark 13:22
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« Reply #252 on: October 30, 2010, 03:04:40 PM »

Let's cut to the chase.  Who is the present incarnation of Jesus?

According to his website, our new friend is the present Incarnation of God. Smiley
I was afraid of that.  Reading his tripe gives me a headache.

"But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men." ~Matthew 16:23

Hey, dattaswami, the above verse is my God speaking to one of His disciples.  Think how much harsher His words will be for you if you unless you turn away from your pride and repent.
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« Reply #253 on: October 30, 2010, 03:51:59 PM »

Para-

a prefix appearing in loanwords from Greek, most often attached to verbs and verbal derivatives, with the meanings “at or to one side of, beside, side by side” ( parabola; paragraph; parallel; paralysis ), “beyond, past, by” ( paradox; paragogue ); by extension from these senses, this prefix came to designate objects or activities auxiliary to or derivative of that denoted by the base word ( parody; paronomasia ), and hence abnormal or defective ( paranoia ), a sense now common in modern scientific coinages ( parageusia; paralexia ). As an English prefix, para- 1  may have any of these senses; it is also productive in the naming of occupational roles considered ancillary or subsidiary to roles requiring more training, or of a higher status, on such models as paramedical  and paraprofessional: paralegal; paralibrarian; parapolice.

Brahman-

The Brahman or Brahma is a breed of Zebu cattle (Bos primigenius indicus), later exported from India to the rest of the world. The main breeds used were Kankrej, Guzerat, Nelore or Ongole and the Gir or Gyr cattle. It is named for the sacred cow of Hinduism.

Data Pastrami,

 Are you saying we cannot get beyond or past a Brahman cow?  Or that we cannot become an abnormal, defective Brahman cow?  Please explain using bullet points and Roberts Rules of Order.  En espanol, por favor.  Smiley
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« Reply #254 on: October 30, 2010, 04:20:14 PM »

He thinks he is God. How can his beliefs possibly be open to critique, in his mind?
When a Hindu reads "I am God", he or she would have a very different idea in his or her head, compared to when a Christian reads "I am God".
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« Reply #255 on: October 30, 2010, 04:50:51 PM »

You write funny things.
How can it be funny!
Human incarnation is a 2-in-1 system in which GOd and Son of God exists together. God is not convereted into Son of God or vice versa. But when Son of gOD is alive in this world He is God Himself because God is alive in Him all the time, Hence He is God Himself.

Dattaswami, until you have taken the time to familiarize yourself with Orthodox Christianity- what it teaches, what its practices are, what its spirituality is- I would recommend you stop "preaching" to us and making a fool out of yourself.
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« Reply #256 on: October 30, 2010, 05:32:24 PM »

You write funny things.
How can it be funny!
Human incarnation is a 2-in-1 system in which GOd and Son of God exists together. God is not convereted into Son of God or vice versa. But when Son of gOD is alive in this world He is God Himself because God is alive in Him all the time, Hence He is God Himself.

"Your god is wrong."
Ralph Wiggum
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« Reply #257 on: October 30, 2010, 05:35:56 PM »

^You're very confused, aren't you?  It's tough impersonating the Holy Trinity.

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« Reply #258 on: October 30, 2010, 05:43:23 PM »

If you're God, tell me where my car keys are.
Hey, you're cutting into my time with the dataguy.  Find your own keys.  Wink Grin
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What about frogs? I like frogs!


« Reply #259 on: October 30, 2010, 05:52:15 PM »

The love one has for a spouse is completely different than the love one has for a child/children. One is not higher than another, they are simply different. This is why being a single parent is so difficult. You can be a good single parent, but it is not easy. This isn't because the other person is there to help in a hands on way each day (although admittedly that is WONDERFUL). It is difficult because the support one has in a spouse is more than just physical help. It is much more complicated than one can describe. Partnership isn't even a good descriptive word for it. The amount of help that one needs when they lose a spouse is not something that you can lay out in list format to be supplemented with other people/things helping. I can't describe it, I hope someone else will, what you get from a spouse is not something as simple as "love" it is so much more. If all I needed was love, I wouldn't have missed my husband when he was deployed; I had 4 children lavishing me with love. I needed more than they could give me, I needed my husband, I needed his presence as much as I needed his love.
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« Reply #260 on: October 30, 2010, 05:55:38 PM »

Out of curiosity; how far are the admin of this forum willing to let this guy go? He is now claiming to be able to perform miracles, that he is a vessel of God like Christ.
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« Reply #261 on: October 30, 2010, 06:05:28 PM »

Isn't spamming against the Rules?  You see one post from dataguy, and you've seen them all. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #262 on: October 30, 2010, 06:10:28 PM »

"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction." ~2Peter 2:1
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« Reply #263 on: October 30, 2010, 06:20:11 PM »

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« Reply #264 on: October 30, 2010, 06:20:54 PM »

Hey, I know--why don't the Admins ban him.  If he really is God, he'll be able to undo the ban.  I think that's a Solomonic solution, don't you? Grin
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« Reply #265 on: October 30, 2010, 06:38:46 PM »

"You're not a God.  Trust me, this is 12 years of Catholic school talkin'."  - Rita (Andie McDowell) to Phil (Bill Murray), "Groundhog Day"  Smiley
Grin laugh laugh

Very nice.

"I'm A god, not THE God...at least I don't think I am."


 Grin


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« Reply #266 on: October 30, 2010, 06:57:41 PM »

"You're not a God.  Trust me, this is 12 years of Catholic school talkin'."  - Rita (Andie McDowell) to Phil (Bill Murray), "Groundhog Day"  Smiley
Grin laugh laugh

Very nice.

"I'm A god, not THE God...at least I don't think I am."
Father Cavanaugh (Robert Prosky) of Notre Dame University speaking to Daniel "Rudy" Ruettiger (Sean Astin) in the 1993 film Rudy: "Son, in 35 years of religious study, I have only come up with two hard incontrovertible facts: there is a God, and I'm not Him." Grin
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« Reply #267 on: October 30, 2010, 07:15:51 PM »

DEleted.  Inadvertantly repeated Peter's post.
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« Reply #268 on: October 30, 2010, 08:04:04 PM »

That's OK, Peter's posts are worth re-Pete-ing. Wink
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don't even go there!


« Reply #269 on: October 30, 2010, 08:08:52 PM »

Well, right after posting above, I found my car keys!

Glory be to Hugh, our god!  Grin
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"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)
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