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Author Topic: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism  (Read 107099 times) Average Rating: 0
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dattaswami
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« Reply #1845 on: March 23, 2011, 09:21:41 PM »

In the next birth, the killed living being will be born as human being, you will be born as the living being and you will be killed similarly by the human being so that your soul will realize the pain and get reformed.

Sorry to burst your illusion and hope that you will be "reborn" as a living being once your current human body dies.  You won't.

This is it.  Look at yourself in the mirror, and learn to love the body that God gave you.  It's the only one you will ever have.

God created Man out of dust, in His image.  Therefore, we resemble our Creator.  The animals were created separately from man, not just for his personal use, but, to bring joy and beauty to creation.  They were created before mankind.  They have their own purpose - separate from man's.  

Our human soul is given a human body only.  We are given this body so that we can understand the teachings of the Lord, so that we can comprehend, so that we can make this world a better place.  God has given us everything we need to reach salvation, culminating in His own Son.  Christ has showed us the way to salvation.  He has taught us all we need to know, and how we need to live.

There is NO excuse for someone to live a "bad" life.  None.  We live a "bad" life for our own lack of discipline.  Our lack of love.  Our selfishness and pride.  We are here to do battle against ourselves.  We are to make ourselves into the person that God had initially created us to be.

That is why in Orthodoxy we have a number of Sacraments, to help us on our journey - Baptism, Confession, Communion, etc.  We have the examples of the saints to bolster our determination.  If they, mere humans just like us, could attain sainthood, than I must try, because apparently it is attainable.

You have one chance.  You do not get to have "do overs".  This is not a board game.  You know the rules, you either choose to follow them or not.  You are aware of the rewards or the punishment.  Your salvation is in your own hands, to gain or lose in this, your one life time on earth.

There is NO unity between your Hindu faith and Orthodoxy.  Any so called faith that does not recognize the Holy Trinity is being misled.  I truly hope that in time you will come to realize this.  Take a moment and research the promise of eternal salvation that is offered by the Orthodox Faith.  

As for "living beings"  - all manner of life is God's creation, and as such it should be respected and cared for, not just the four-legged kind.  ....I am certain the kirpan was never used to cause any living being any harm.


OK let us analyse your points...

Only one Lord created this entire universe. He should have told the same knowledge everywhere in the world. The contradiction is only due to misunderstanding. In Hinduism also Sankara says that again human birth is almost impossible (Jantunaam Nara Janma Durlabhamidam). Sankara was the incarnation of Siva and so what He told is also authoritative. Even Gita says that the soul comes back to this world but does not say that the soul gets again the human birth (Ksheene Punye Martyalokam Visanti). In the second chapter, Gita speaks about rebirth but not about the human rebirth. Islam and Christianity say that the human birth is given only as a single chance. After this the final judgement is given. The soul either goes to the Lord or goes to the hell permanently. In Gita also there are two ways for the soul. Either the soul goes to the Lord and does not return back or the soul returns back to the world (Abrahma Bhuvanath, Yat Gatva). According to Gita, if the soul does not go to the Lord (Brahmaloka), it returns back after enjoying the fruits of incomplete spiritual effort. Therefore in this human birth, if the spiritual effort is completed, the soul goes to the Brahmaloka permanently.

If the spiritual effort is incomplete the soul may go up to any world below Brahmaloka, it will return back to this earth after enjoying the fruits of its incomplete spiritual effort. The soul may go up to the sixth world, it cannot go to the Brahmaloka, which is the seventh world by doing the remaining spiritual effort in the sixth world. The reason is once the soul leaves this earth all the upper worlds are only Bhogalokas i.e., the worlds in which the soul can enjoy the fruits, but cannot do any work (Karma). Therefore the soul has to return back to the earth. The soul will not get again another chance of human birth because once it is failed it can never succeed. Therefore the soul comes to the earth and falls into the cycle of animals and birds only. When the soul is trapped in this cycle of animal births, it is treated as a permanent hell.

If the soul goes to Brahmaloka it always accompanies the Lord either in Brahmaloka or may come back to the earth along with the Lord who takes the human incarnation. In such case the soul is born as a divine servant of the Lord. Such soul will not take rebirth in the cycle of animals. Thus for the divine soul also there is no such rebirth. In this way Hinduism, Islam and Christianity are correlated as one concept preached by the one Lord. Christians and Muslims are putting up sincere spiritual effort because there is a threat that this human life is the only chance. There is no reexamination according to these religions. This human birth is the only one examination and the soul either passes or fails and will not be allowed for any reexamination. But in Hinduism such threat is not there.

People have taken a lenient view on the spiritual life because they think that the human rebirths are possible and so they can put up the spiritual effort slowly in the future human births. The Lord cannot say different theories to different people. The rule must be same for all the human beings of the world. Therefore whatever the Lord told in Christianity and Islam also told the same in Hinduism. Hindus misunderstood the concept. Therefore what ever may be the religion, every human being should think “Now or Never”.

The human rebirth is only for Yoga Bhrashta i.e., the soul, which has reached Brahmaloka and fell due to some slip. Such a soul is suspended from Brahmaloka and comes down to the earth and takes rebirth as a human being only. You have passed the P.G. Degree and obtained the post of the lecturer. But you were suspended for a month due to some mistake. You will be re-appointed.

Similarly the Yoga Bhrashta will be born as a human being for some time and will come back to Brahmaloka. The case of incomplete spiritual effort is different from Yoga Bhrashta. The incomplete spiritual person is like a B.A. Degree holder who never achieved the lecturer post. You cannot argue that you can be appointed as a seventy five percent lecturer since you reached seventy five percent of the total educational period (from school to P.G.Degree is hundred percent) by getting a B.A. Degree.

Thus there is no partial achievement by partial spiritual effort. The grace of the Lord is either hundred percent or zero. If it is hundred percent you are reaching Brahmaloka. If it is Zero percent you are falling back to the earth in the cycle of animals and birds. There is no third way in between these two. When this truth is revealed, only one in thousands will try to put the real spiritual effort as said in Gita (Manushyaanaam Sahasreshu). By this Hindus will become alert in spiritual effort like Christians and Muslims.
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« Reply #1846 on: March 23, 2011, 09:31:00 PM »

In the next birth, the killed living being will be born as human being, you will be born as the living being and you will be killed similarly by the human being so that your soul will realize the pain and get reformed.

Sorry to burst your illusion and hope that you will be "reborn" as a living being once your current human body dies.  You won't.

This is it.  Look at yourself in the mirror, and learn to love the body that God gave you.  It's the only one you will ever have.

God created Man out of dust, in His image.  Therefore, we resemble our Creator.  The animals were created separately from man, not just for his personal use, but, to bring joy and beauty to creation.  They were created before mankind.  They have their own purpose - separate from man's.  

Our human soul is given a human body only.  We are given this body so that we can understand the teachings of the Lord, so that we can comprehend, so that we can make this world a better place.  God has given us everything we need to reach salvation, culminating in His own Son.  Christ has showed us the way to salvation.  He has taught us all we need to know, and how we need to live.

There is NO excuse for someone to live a "bad" life.  None.  We live a "bad" life for our own lack of discipline.  Our lack of love.  Our selfishness and pride.  We are here to do battle against ourselves.  We are to make ourselves into the person that God had initially created us to be.

That is why in Orthodoxy we have a number of Sacraments, to help us on our journey - Baptism, Confession, Communion, etc.  We have the examples of the saints to bolster our determination.  If they, mere humans just like us, could attain sainthood, than I must try, because apparently it is attainable.

You have one chance.  You do not get to have "do overs".  This is not a board game.  You know the rules, you either choose to follow them or not.  You are aware of the rewards or the punishment.  Your salvation is in your own hands, to gain or lose in this, your one life time on earth.

There is NO unity between your Hindu faith and Orthodoxy.  Any so called faith that does not recognize the Holy Trinity is being misled.  I truly hope that in time you will come to realize this.  Take a moment and research the promise of eternal salvation that is offered by the Orthodox Faith.  

As for "living beings"  - all manner of life is God's creation, and as such it should be respected and cared for, not just the four-legged kind.  ....I am certain the kirpan was never used to cause any living being any harm.


OK let us analyse your points...

Only one Lord created this entire universe. He should have told the same knowledge everywhere in the world. The contradiction is only due to misunderstanding. In Hinduism also Sankara says that again human birth is almost impossible (Jantunaam Nara Janma Durlabhamidam). Sankara was the incarnation of Siva and so what He told is also authoritative. Even Gita says that the soul comes back to this world but does not say that the soul gets again the human birth (Ksheene Punye Martyalokam Visanti). In the second chapter, Gita speaks about rebirth but not about the human rebirth. Islam and Christianity say that the human birth is given only as a single chance. After this the final judgement is given. The soul either goes to the Lord or goes to the hell permanently. In Gita also there are two ways for the soul. Either the soul goes to the Lord and does not return back or the soul returns back to the world (Abrahma Bhuvanath, Yat Gatva). According to Gita, if the soul does not go to the Lord (Brahmaloka), it returns back after enjoying the fruits of incomplete spiritual effort. Therefore in this human birth, if the spiritual effort is completed, the soul goes to the Brahmaloka permanently.

If the spiritual effort is incomplete the soul may go up to any world below Brahmaloka, it will return back to this earth after enjoying the fruits of its incomplete spiritual effort. The soul may go up to the sixth world, it cannot go to the Brahmaloka, which is the seventh world by doing the remaining spiritual effort in the sixth world. The reason is once the soul leaves this earth all the upper worlds are only Bhogalokas i.e., the worlds in which the soul can enjoy the fruits, but cannot do any work (Karma). Therefore the soul has to return back to the earth. The soul will not get again another chance of human birth because once it is failed it can never succeed. Therefore the soul comes to the earth and falls into the cycle of animals and birds only. When the soul is trapped in this cycle of animal births, it is treated as a permanent hell.

If the soul goes to Brahmaloka it always accompanies the Lord either in Brahmaloka or may come back to the earth along with the Lord who takes the human incarnation. In such case the soul is born as a divine servant of the Lord. Such soul will not take rebirth in the cycle of animals. Thus for the divine soul also there is no such rebirth. In this way Hinduism, Islam and Christianity are correlated as one concept preached by the one Lord. Christians and Muslims are putting up sincere spiritual effort because there is a threat that this human life is the only chance. There is no reexamination according to these religions. This human birth is the only one examination and the soul either passes or fails and will not be allowed for any reexamination. But in Hinduism such threat is not there.

People have taken a lenient view on the spiritual life because they think that the human rebirths are possible and so they can put up the spiritual effort slowly in the future human births. The Lord cannot say different theories to different people. The rule must be same for all the human beings of the world. Therefore whatever the Lord told in Christianity and Islam also told the same in Hinduism. Hindus misunderstood the concept. Therefore what ever may be the religion, every human being should think “Now or Never”.

The human rebirth is only for Yoga Bhrashta i.e., the soul, which has reached Brahmaloka and fell due to some slip. Such a soul is suspended from Brahmaloka and comes down to the earth and takes rebirth as a human being only. You have passed the P.G. Degree and obtained the post of the lecturer. But you were suspended for a month due to some mistake. You will be re-appointed.

Similarly the Yoga Bhrashta will be born as a human being for some time and will come back to Brahmaloka. The case of incomplete spiritual effort is different from Yoga Bhrashta. The incomplete spiritual person is like a B.A. Degree holder who never achieved the lecturer post. You cannot argue that you can be appointed as a seventy five percent lecturer since you reached seventy five percent of the total educational period (from school to P.G.Degree is hundred percent) by getting a B.A. Degree.

Thus there is no partial achievement by partial spiritual effort. The grace of the Lord is either hundred percent or zero. If it is hundred percent you are reaching Brahmaloka. If it is Zero percent you are falling back to the earth in the cycle of animals and birds. There is no third way in between these two. When this truth is revealed, only one in thousands will try to put the real spiritual effort as said in Gita (Manushyaanaam Sahasreshu). By this Hindus will become alert in spiritual effort like Christians and Muslims.

You created an interesting way of harmonizing the common Hindu belief in reincarnation and the common Christian belief in monozoochronism (one-life-time-ism), for the apparent purpose of closing the "Why-do-it-now-when-I-can-do-it-in-the-next-lifetime" loophole.

Another way to think about it, is that *this* is your "next-lifetime".
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« Reply #1847 on: March 23, 2011, 09:34:41 PM »

Creation of bad in this world
The bad is created for the sake of the souls only.


People often get the doubt about the creation of bad in this world apart from good. Let us come to the original point. Again, another doubt comes that the creation of bad directly or indirectly spoils the souls and hence, it is objectionable. This objection is also ruled out because the process of examination of the souls is essential for giving the divine fruit. Unless the attraction to bad exists, there is no meaning of examination. The teacher always advises the students to concentrate on studies without going to cinema. Those who concentrated on studies resisting that attraction are rewarded. You cannot say that all the cinema theaters in the city should be destroyed so that the disturbance of concentration can be avoided. The theatre exists in the city to give entertainment to the retired public. Therefore, the aspect of the entertainment of the retired public cannot contradict the aspect of concentration of students on studies. You should not bring the retired public and the students on one line.

 Similarly, you should not bring God and souls on one line. Moreover, unless the theatre exists, there is no meaning in the aspect of concentration on studies resisting the side attractions. If the side attraction is absent, where is the concept of concentration and where is the concept of examination? Such situation leads to meaningless dormant inactivity and lack of spirit of competition, which again bores the students themselves. Then, the students themselves will raise objection. Hence, the bad is created for the sake of the souls only.

 God derives the entertainment from both good and bad and such entertainment is not wrong since bad is not created primarily for the sake of such entertainment only. The entertainment is only secondary since the creation of bad was not done at all for His entertainment. You need not object such entertainment of God when it is not the primary purpose. You cannot say that the founder of a college is responsible for the suicide of a student on failing in the examination. You say that if the founder has not established the college, this incident should not have happened and therefore, the founder is criminal and should be punished!
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« Reply #1848 on: March 23, 2011, 09:35:37 PM »

You created an interesting way of harmonizing the common Hindu belief in reincarnation and the common Christian belief in monozoochronism (one-life-time-ism), for the apparent purpose of closing the "Why-do-it-now-when-I-can-do-it-in-the-next-lifetime" loophole.

Another way to think about it, is that *this* is your "next-lifetime".

In Islam and Christianity there is no rebirth for the soul. The soul gets human birth only once. After this human birth the soul will either go to the Lord or will go to the hell permanently. Only one Lord created this entire universe. Therefore the policy should be the same for all the souls in this universe. There is only one Lord. All the souls are equal to Him. Can you deny this? If you don’t agree with this theory, you can follow your own faith. But your faith is not important. The truth is important. What ever is true, that alone happens and not as per your faith. If you agree with this policy I can correlate all the religions.

If you can correlate all the religions in a better way, I will also agree with you. If you are not caring for the correlation and follow your faith only, there is nothing for me to preach you. My correlation of all the religions is like this : In Gita two paths are explained. In the first path one goes to Brahmaloka without returning back. In the other path one returns back to this earth and falls in the cycle of births and deaths which is the wheel of Samsara. In all the religions there are only two paths. Reaching Brahmaloka is reaching the Lord. Falling in the cycle animals and births is going to the hell permanently. The soul which, has fallen in this hell will never get the human rebirth in which there is facility of trying to reach Brahmaloka. Not getting such a spiritual human rebirth is the absence of rebirth.

The soul which, goes to Brahmaloka will never get the rebirth of animals and birds and in such sense this soul also has no rebirth. But one point is to be understood carefully. The birth of animal, bird, worm etc., does not mean the actual animal or bird or worm etc., There are several human beings who live like animals, birds and worms. Such human births are also the births of animals, birds, worms etc., We are seeing such human beings in majority on this earth. They are immersed in the worldly bonds like money, children etc., They cannot cut their blind love to these worldly bonds. Even if they put some spiritual effort, it is incomplete because of the attachment with these bonds.

Such souls when they go to the upper worlds are also involved in such bonds in the upper worlds also. They can never attain Brahmaloka by preaching any amount of divine knowledge to them. But if they are not preached they will blame the Lord during the enquiry posing that they might have attained Brahmaloka, had they received the divine knowledge. The Lord preaches them also only to save himself from such blame and not to save them. Therefore if you are having all the facilities and also interest in the spiritual line this is the best birth for you and this is the only chance for you. If you waste this human birth you are falling into the births of animals etc., You are not given such chance again.

Islam and Christianity say that the soul has to wait for the final enquiry which, is to be done at the end of this world. This human body (Pindanda) is stated as the world (Brahmanda). The human body is a mini world containing the same components. Therefore the death of this human body can be treated as the end of this world from the point of the soul. You can also treat the day as birth and night as death. Veda says that the deep sleep is equal to death (Naviduhu Sati Sampatsyama Iti). Gita also says the same (Prabhavantyaharagame). Therefore the feelings (Samskaras) of previous births mean only the feelings of yesterday.

If you are on the spiritual line and if you are making sincere spiritual effort to cut these worldly bonds and to strengthen the bond with the Lord, your lifetime can be extended by the Lord. You will cross the day of your death by the grace of the Lord, which is a rebirth. Such extension of life will help you really in the spiritual effort if you are given a human rebirth there will be lot of gap since you have to stay in the womb of your mother and you have to cross the childhood. Such long gap will give a serious break in your spiritual effort.

From this point of view also there is no human rebirth. If one cannot attain the Brahmaloka in this human birth itself by getting the extension of life, can such a soul get Brahmaloka in the next human birth after such a long gap? Gita also says that the soul is taking birth and death constantly during the day and night (Athachainam Nitya Jatam). Like this all the three religions can be correlated and only one theory is evolved.
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« Reply #1849 on: March 23, 2011, 09:40:12 PM »


So dattaswami, you are saying that all the animal kingdom is in fact, those unfortunate human souls that didn't live a good life.  They will never be reborn as a human, but, are stuck in an animal hell.

You equated our four legged animal friends as souls that are in perpetual hell.

I hardly think that beautiful singing bird outside my window is living through hell.

In fact, I believe all of nature rejoices and praises the Lord.

I am sorry you feel otherwise.  I be sure to inform those silly squirrels running around, that they shouldn't be so happy....they should be miserable, wretched souls, stuck in hell.   

Poor things.
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« Reply #1850 on: March 23, 2011, 09:54:50 PM »

You cannot say that all the cinema theaters in the city should be destroyed so that the disturbance of concentration can be avoided. The theatre exists in the city to give entertainment to the retired public. Therefore, the aspect of the entertainment of the retired public cannot contradict the aspect of concentration of students on studies. You should not bring the retired public and the students on one line.

 Similarly, you should not bring God and souls on one line. Moreover, unless the theatre exists, there is no meaning in the aspect of concentration on studies resisting the side attractions. If the side attraction is absent, where is the concept of concentration and where is the concept of examination? Such situation leads to meaningless dormant inactivity and lack of spirit of competition, which again bores the students themselves. Then, the students themselves will raise objection. Hence, the bad is created for the sake of the souls only.

Maybe it is the fourteen hour workday, but this is about the funniest ..... I have read all week.

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« Reply #1851 on: March 23, 2011, 10:02:17 PM »

You know, I like to consider myself an intelligent person, but I had to read dattaswami's last entry several times to understand about 35% of it.
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« Reply #1852 on: March 23, 2011, 10:12:11 PM »

You know, I like to consider myself an intelligent person, but I had to read dattaswami's last entry several times to understand about 35% of it.

It helps to run it through Google Translate from English to Hindi and then back to English.
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« Reply #1853 on: March 23, 2011, 10:20:29 PM »

You know, I like to consider myself an intelligent person, but I had to read dattaswami's last entry several times to understand about 35% of it.

It helps to run it through Google Translate from English to Hindi and then back to English.

I find giving it a shot of depakote going one way then geodon coming back the other helps a lot as well.
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« Reply #1854 on: March 23, 2011, 10:28:41 PM »

I'm convinced that eating burgers to forget my headache will help, but I can't try that until Lent is over.


Banging my head against the wall, then.  Grin
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« Reply #1855 on: March 24, 2011, 08:27:58 AM »


So dattaswami, you are saying that all the animal kingdom is in fact, those unfortunate human souls that didn't live a good life.  They will never be reborn as a human, but, are stuck in an animal hell.

You equated our four legged animal friends as souls that are in perpetual hell.

I hardly think that beautiful singing bird outside my window is living through hell.

In fact, I believe all of nature rejoices and praises the Lord.

When I was a Buddhist, a lot of the texts I read would detail how thoroughly miserable and wretched the life of animals is- there is nothing good about the animal realm and they can only hope to be reborn as humans. The innate beauty of animals is never seriously considered. This is one of a number of reasons I couldn't remain a Buddhist.
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« Reply #1856 on: March 24, 2011, 09:20:31 AM »

You know, I like to consider myself an intelligent person, but I had to read dattaswami's last entry several times to understand about 35% of it.
please, I get a headache trying to think down to that level
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« Reply #1857 on: March 24, 2011, 09:35:08 AM »

Plucking leaves and fruits is not killing...   The ancient Indian sages avoided even plucking the leaves and fruits.  They ate leaves and fruits when they have fallen from the plants.

So let's explore.

There are lifeforms that survive and exist entirely by consuming the decaying vegetable matter that has fallen to the ground.  By picking it up and consuming it, one has ensured that other life will perish.  It's indisputable.

I don't see how you can consistently defend this evil practice of eating fallen fruit and vegetable matter.
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« Reply #1858 on: March 24, 2011, 10:10:52 AM »


...besides, by eating the fallen fruit...you have stolen it's chance at sprouting and growing into a whole new plant.

The reason, it fell, was in order to plant the seeds and grow.

You've just murdered a whole new plant.

Shameful.
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« Reply #1859 on: March 24, 2011, 10:16:58 AM »

You know, I like to consider myself an intelligent person, but I had to read dattaswami's last entry several times to understand about 35% of it.

It helps to run it through Google Translate from English to Hindi and then back to English.

I find giving it a shot of depakote going one way then geodon coming back the other helps a lot as well.

Try a double dose of Five Hour Energy!   Wink  You probably won't notice when you are banging your head against the wall!
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« Reply #1860 on: March 24, 2011, 03:29:40 PM »

The innate beauty of animals is never seriously considered.
I wouldn't go that far. The Jataka Tales in the Pali Canon describe the Buddha's past lifetimes as a Bodhisatta, many or most of those lifetimes being when the Bodhisatta existed as different sorts of animals, animals that nonetheless acted with a level of consiousness, compassion, and wisdom.
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« Reply #1861 on: March 24, 2011, 03:39:48 PM »

You created an interesting way of harmonizing the common Hindu belief in reincarnation and the common Christian belief in monozoochronism (one-life-time-ism), for the apparent purpose of closing the "Why-do-it-now-when-I-can-do-it-in-the-next-lifetime" loophole.

Another way to think about it, is that *this* is your "next-lifetime".

In Islam and Christianity there is no rebirth for the soul. The soul gets human birth only once.
....
If you can correlate all the religions in a better way, I will also agree with you.
I wouldn't say that there are better ways to correlate the different perspectives on the afterlife found in different religions, but there are alternative ways. One way is to say that when the Abrahamic religions speak of "one-life", they are speaking of one-life as being the time-span between the creation of the soul/mind/body and the soul/mind/body's salvation/liberation in communion with God; that time-span might include many sequential births and deaths of the soul/mind/body.

Whereas when the Dharmic religions speak of "many-lives", they're actually speaking of the "one-life" of the soul/mind/body which undergoes many births and deaths, until the soul/mind/body's liberation/salvation in communion with God. (The tripartite structure of the human person would, then, in both religions, be soul, mind, and body.)
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« Reply #1862 on: March 24, 2011, 08:35:50 PM »

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You must not kill any living being for the sake of your food.


A truly ignorant statement from someone who claims "unity of belief" between Hinduism and Christianity:

From Acts 10:

9 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. 10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”
14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.”
15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed you must not call common.” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.


And did not Christ Himself feed the five thousand with bread and fish? And we also know He ate fish Himself.
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« Reply #1863 on: March 24, 2011, 10:08:13 PM »

Quote
You must not kill any living being for the sake of your food.


A truly ignorant statement from someone who claims "unity of belief" between Hinduism and Christianity:

There is a part of me that is glad someone is still trying to get through to d.s., and there is a part of me that says, "Why bother?  He won't listen!"
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« Reply #1864 on: March 24, 2011, 10:54:03 PM »


So dattaswami, you are saying that all the animal kingdom is in fact, those unfortunate human souls that didn't live a good life.  They will never be reborn as a human, but, are stuck in an animal hell.

You equated our four legged animal friends as souls that are in perpetual hell.

I hardly think that beautiful singing bird outside my window is living through hell.

In fact, I believe all of nature rejoices and praises the Lord.

I am sorry you feel otherwise.  I be sure to inform those silly squirrels running around, that they shouldn't be so happy....they should be miserable, wretched souls, stuck in hell.   

Poor things.


You are correct.

God is loving every soul and is helping every soul in this world.  He never hates any soul.  The punishment in the hell is also to reduce madness of materialism of the soul.  Suppose, one son becomes mad, the father will take him to the doctor and admits him in the mental hospital where shock treatments are given.  Can you say that the father is angry with the son?  Similarly, the hell is for the last sort of trial to transform the soul.  The madness is never cured and the son has to be retained in the hospital only forever.



 Same is the concept of the permanent hell. These souls cannot be brought into this world because they will bring Chaos in this world, just like the mad son cannot be brought out of the hospital into the society.  Some souls are born as birds, animals etc.,  Here also only the love of God reflects.  As a human being the soul was always interested in eating, drinking and sex only.  The soul never turned to God.  In such case there is no use of the intelligence of the human category, which is meant for analysis of truth.  Therefore, the soul is placed in the cycle of animals, which are also happy like the human beings in eating, drinking and sex only. The human being may think that he may loose his beautiful wife and may have to live with a she-buffalo if he is born as he-buffalo.  But the point is that when the soul is born as he-buffalo, the she-buffalo is as beautiful as the present ‘Miss world’!.

  The grass will be as tasty as the sweet dish in the meals today.  The soul cannot estimate the happiness of the animal while remaining in the human body.
  The same happiness is received by the souls in all types of bodies from eating, drinking and sex.  What ever he desired, that is given to him by God without any disturbance.  In the human life the spiritual knowledge is often disturbing him in achieving the continuous happiness from eating, drinking and sex.  Therefore, God favored the soul by such animal-birth and this is not punishing the soul. 

This means God is helping even His enemies.  A father will never harm his issue even if it opposes him.  He wants always the happiness of the child continuously.  The devoted souls want to be with God and derive the divine bliss constantly.  God provides opportunity for such devotees also to make them happy constantly by guiding them in achieving the real and highest devotion to Him.  Therefore, you can see the same love of God on a devoted soul staying in His abode as an angel and also on a he-buffalo enjoying with the she-buffalo in a mud pond.  Both are continuously happy in their own fields!  At last God provided what ever the child desired.  Of course He tried to convert the soul in the he-buffalo into an angel.  When He failed in all His efforts, He has sanctioned the firm desire of the soul.  Therefore, God helped all the souls, whether those loved Him or not.

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« Reply #1865 on: March 24, 2011, 10:56:51 PM »

You know, I like to consider myself an intelligent person, but I had to read dattaswami's last entry several times to understand about 35% of it.

You need not get discouraged....

One need not be discouraged because if you are constantly putting the effort to climb the steps continuously, God will sanction any number of human births to reach the goal. The spiritual path has no physical significance. It is not like the journey to Bombay which needs the help of vehicles. The whole journey is related to your psychology or mental set-up which should act with full determination. The determination will spontaneously come through complete and real divine knowledge.

The real knowledge can alone clarify all the doubts. When no doubt is left over the knowledge is complete, which immediately results in determination. Therefore, Guru is more important than even the God is because Guru is the guide and God is the goal. When God Himself comes to you as Guru, there is no need of any journey. He will guide you so that you will recognize Him. But His guidance is always delicate and critical because there is always a risk of your misunderstanding about Him. If somebody guides you to Him, such risk is not there. But such guidance will not be as clear as His guidance. Therefore, the issue gets mixed up.

When you recognize the God in human form, your concentration should be on the God present in Him. Since you cannot directly experience God, the medium is necessary. When you are experiencing God through the human form, the awareness of the external human form should disappear. When you touch an electric wire, your awareness is about the shock of current but not about the structure of the wire. Therefore, you have to see the aspect of God in Satguru and treat Him as directly the God (Guruh Sakshat Parabrahma). This means that you should find only God in Satguru. The case of a human Guru blessed by God is like the hot iron wire in the heater which was heated by the electricity but the current is put off. The effect of the current, which is the heat, remains in the wire.

 The heat burns your finger but does not give a shock. Similarly, the human incarnation of a liberated soul has the power of God, though not directly God and is called as Guru. The third example is the wire in which neither the electricity nor the heat exists. To develop concentration in one direction you can treat such wire also as God and such worship is called as representative worship (Pratika Upasanam). There is no fruit from the object but there is fruit in the subject which is the development of concentration. The first two cases are direct and indirect worship of God resulting in the achievement of fruit from the object. For the representative worship you can select any human being you like as your Guru which has also the advantage of development of concentration in yourself.

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« Reply #1866 on: March 24, 2011, 10:59:41 PM »

Therefore, Guru is more important than even the God.
You lost me there, honey.  Cheesy
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« Reply #1867 on: March 24, 2011, 11:03:07 PM »


 At last God provided what ever the child desired.  Of course He tried to convert the soul in the he-buffalo into an angel.  When He failed in all His efforts, He has sanctioned the firm desire of the soul.  Therefore, God helped all the souls, whether those loved Him or not.



Right here, you have once and for all shown that your belief has NOTHING in common with Orthodoxy.

God failed in His efforts!?!  Blasphemous talk.  

Our God never fails at anything.

You should get to know Him....  He is much more preferable than whatever false deity you pray to.

...and just as a bonus, He won't wed you to a she-buffalo.

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« Reply #1868 on: March 25, 2011, 02:08:45 AM »

You created an interesting way of harmonizing the common Hindu belief in reincarnation and the common Christian belief in monozoochronism (one-life-time-ism), for the apparent purpose of closing the "Why-do-it-now-when-I-can-do-it-in-the-next-lifetime" loophole.

Another way to think about it, is that *this* is your "next-lifetime".

In Islam and Christianity there is no rebirth for the soul. The soul gets human birth only once.
....
If you can correlate all the religions in a better way, I will also agree with you.
I wouldn't say that there are better ways to correlate the different perspectives on the afterlife found in different religions, but there are alternative ways. One way is to say that when the Abrahamic religions speak of "one-life", they are speaking of one-life as being the time-span between the creation of the soul/mind/body and the soul/mind/body's salvation/liberation in communion with God; that time-span might include many sequential births and deaths of the soul/mind/body.

Whereas when the Dharmic religions speak of "many-lives", they're actually speaking of the "one-life" of the soul/mind/body which undergoes many births and deaths, until the soul/mind/body's liberation/salvation in communion with God. (The tripartite structure of the human person would, then, in both religions, be soul, mind, and body.)

Contradiction about rebirth

Hinduism preaches rebirth. Christianity says that there is no rebirth. One has to solve this contradiction. I am giving a solution. You are welcome to give a better solution, if any. You neither give a better solution nor accept My solution. You want the contradiction to be alive like a burning fire and you want to make this world into a hell with these religious fights. You do not care about other religions. You are rigid about your own misinterpretation of your scripture. You say that your scripture in the light of your own misinterpretation alone is correct. This indirectly means that the other religion is wrong. After sometime you will come out directly saying that the other religion is wrong. The people of other religions do the same thing. This creates hatred among the people. Love vanishes. Fights and wars result. You are responsible for all this chaos.


The solution I give here is that there is no rebirth as far as the spiritual chance is concerned; the real human birth is lost. Even if you get human rebirths, you will only be immersed in worldly bonds. When the concept of God and divine knowledge is lost, such human births are as good as animals (Pashuvat Naraanam). Thus, both religions are synchronised.

 Moreover, God can give human rebirths to deserving souls and He is not bound by any rule. However, I only criticize Hindus and appreciate Christians in this point. Hindus are postponing their spiritual efforts thinking that there are several human rebirths. In Hinduism also it is said that human rebirth is very rare (Nara Janma Durlabham—Shankara). I remove the contradiction and appreciate the merit, wherever it lies.

You said that animals cannot remember their previous births. But even human beings do not remember their previous births and therefore they are no better than animals in this aspect. The human being who has the spiritual chance alone uses his discrimination power (Buddhi) and thus he alone is the real human being. Other (worldly) human beings are as good as animals. You stand firm on the knowledge of Jesus. I will never oppose you in that point. What I say is that you should stand firm on the real interpretation of the knowledge of Jesus and not on the narrow interpretations given by certain conservative people.
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« Reply #1869 on: March 25, 2011, 02:11:41 AM »


 At last God provided what ever the child desired.  Of course He tried to convert the soul in the he-buffalo into an angel.  When He failed in all His efforts, He has sanctioned the firm desire of the soul.  Therefore, God helped all the souls, whether those loved Him or not.



Right here, you have once and for all shown that your belief has NOTHING in common with Orthodoxy.

God failed in His efforts!?!  Blasphemous talk.  

Our God never fails at anything.

You should get to know Him....  He is much more preferable than whatever false deity you pray to.

...and just as a bonus, He won't wed you to a she-buffalo.



God never fails in preaching divine knowledge. He comes in human form and preaches the divine knowledge, so that in the upper world He is not critisised for not preaching them! It is the defect of the people who could not put spiritual effort to break their bonds and have bond with God in human form. It is not the defect of GOd, but the defect of the people only.

Do not blame GOd for your incapability or less interest in God and His divine knowledge.

God is not fond of fame

 

I have come down to preach and reach each one of you here. I am impartial from My side. Your attachments depend on your own merits and defects. I am controlling My fame as long as I am alive, which will rise like a Tsunami after My exit. There is a reason for this. To accept the human incarnation itself creates the seed of egoism and jealousy. If the human form of God becomes famous while alive, the seed of egoism and jealousy will grow like a huge tree even in the heart of the closest devotee. Priests accepted the past human prophets. But to accept Jesus as Prophet in live form, jealousy entered as seed.

 

 Jesus was drawing crowds by His divine knowledge and the growing fame of Jesus developed the jealousy more and more, which lead to His crucification. Even His closest devotee betrayed Him due to jealousy and egoism. God is not fond of fame because He is bored with the fame in the upper world. Only human beings are fond of fame. God enjoys defame, which is not available in the upper world. Crucification was defame and the Lord enjoyed it well here.
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« Reply #1870 on: March 25, 2011, 02:28:44 AM »

Quote
You must not kill any living being for the sake of your food.


A truly ignorant statement from someone who claims "unity of belief" between Hinduism and Christianity:

From Acts 10:

9 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. 10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”
14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.”
15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed you must not call common.” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.


And did not Christ Himself feed the five thousand with bread and fish? And we also know He ate fish Himself.

What a foolishness!!! My dear brother, that was a vision given to Peter to accept all people as the children of GOd irrespective of relgion, nationality etc etc.

You must improve your love to God, otherwise you will never understand God's divine knowledge. Your brain is full of worldly attachment and materialism. In such case how can you learn and understand divine knowledge and practice it in your real life. First you improve love on God.

You want to kill and eat ok. Then why are you not killing human beings and eating? Say your own relatives??

First have some interest in God and love on Him. Do not be like a person who cannont analyse the divine knowledge using brain. This is the reason why Jesus told the divine knoweldge is parables so that people like you could not understand the inner meaning of divine knoweldge and accept it and pratice in life.

Poeple like you are not for GOd but for His power for their personal enjoyment. Therefore GOd also reciprocate in the same line, by preaching in parables when Jesus came, so that these people who are not interested in God and only in His power, will not understand the real meaning of parables and love GOd.

This is not the cruelity of God. Even if God expalin very wonderfully to them, these people could not understand it because they have no interest in the GOD OR His divine knowledge. When interest in GOd is not there where is the question of preaching them about God?

Your reply shows that you are also like such people only who are only interested in using GOd's power for their selfishness.

Therefore it is very important for you to increase your value for God and pratically serve Him when He comes in human form so that you can slowly understand the divine knowledge.
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« Reply #1871 on: March 25, 2011, 02:50:24 AM »

Quote
You must not kill any living being for the sake of your food.


A truly ignorant statement from someone who claims "unity of belief" between Hinduism and Christianity:

There is a part of me that is glad someone is still trying to get through to d.s., and there is a part of me that says, "Why bother?  He won't listen!"

Unity of relgion is to be established.

If anyone says that his/her religion is the only path to God and that other paths lead to hell, I have one humble question. The question is for every religion without any trace of partiality. The simple question is: Today I have heard your Religion and if I follow that, I reach God and if I refuse I will go to the hell for my own fault. This is very much reasonable. But before your ancestors discovered our country, the literature or even the name of your religion was not known to our ancestor and he could not reach God for no fault of him. But your ancestor reached God through your religion at that time.

Even if I assume that my ancestor will take rebirth now and will follow your religion to reach God, such possibility is ruled out because you say that there is no rebirth for the soul. Thus my ancestor suffered forever for no fault of him and the responsibility for this falls on the partiality of God. Had the God been impartial, He could have revealed your religion to all the countries at a time. Had that happened, my ancestor might have also reached God as your ancestor. Therefore your statement proves your own God partial.

The only way left over to you to make your God impartial is that you must accept that your God appeared in all the countries at a time in various forms and preached your path in various languages. The same form did not appear everywhere and the same language does not exist everywhere. The syllabus and explanation are one and the same, though the media and teachers are different. Can you give any alternative reasonable answer to my question other than this? Certainly not! Any person of any religion to any other religion can pose this question.

Moreover every religion states that their God only created this world. Unfortunately this world is one only and every God cannot create the same world. There are no many worlds to justify that each God created His own world. Therefore any human being with an iota of commonsense has to agree that there is only one impartial God who created this one world and He came in different forms to different countries and preached the same path in all the languages simultaneously at one time.

Let this logic sword of the divine knowledge cut the rigid conservatism of the religious fans in this world to establish the Universal Peace. I need not beg all these religious followers to be united and harmonious to each other for the sake of world peace. Such begging appeals are made enough in the past. The religious fans feel that there is no unity really in the religions but they have to be united since their kind hearts melted by these appeals. Thus a temporary change was only brought. At the maximum one generation of the followers got united. The next generation fights with each other because they feel that there is no real unity in them due to lack of the real unity in their religious scriptures.

A permanent solution for this does not lie in the begging appeals, which may or may not unite the followers. Even if the appeals unite such unity is not permanent. If the real unity in all the religious scriptures is exposed through the logical divine knowledge, the followers have to be united for generations together. Therefore, My attack is not on the hearts of the followers through love and kindness. My attack is on all the religious scriptures through intellectual logical analysis of divine knowledge. The unity of hearts through love can be only temporary. The unity of brains through intellectual analytical divine knowledge will be permanent. Hearts agree but brains realize. Agreement is temporary, but realization is permanent. Thus this is My first blow of My divine Conch shell for the permanent unity of all the religions aiming at eternal Universal Peace.
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« Reply #1872 on: March 25, 2011, 08:57:53 AM »

I would think that the work based concept of reincarnation would see Christ as the fullest realization that one cannot achieve  enlightenment or whatever you call it in any incarnatiion or whatever and that this very salvation of Jesus Christ "was preached to every creature under heaven" (Colossians 1:23) based on your concept of consciousness even though that mindstream may not have heard it in every particular body it was in. Read Romans 10:9-13 & hopefullu now  you have heard it & now choose.
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« Reply #1873 on: March 25, 2011, 10:24:06 AM »

I would think that the work based concept of reincarnation would see Christ as the fullest realization that one cannot achieve  enlightenment or whatever you call it in any incarnatiion or whatever and that this very salvation of Jesus Christ "was preached to every creature under heaven" (Colossians 1:23) based on your concept of consciousness even though that mindstream may not have heard it in every particular body it was in. Read Romans 10:9-13 & hopefullu now  you have heard it & now choose.

Jesus is not some where in heaven as you think. Jesus here on this very earth. Only thing is that you have to put effort in identifying Him. He is in human form here on earth. If you have not interest in finding out Him that means you have no real love on God. You love GOd now because He is invisible to you and you expect something from Jesus, some miracles etc etc. Therefore your devotion to invisible Jesus is corrupted and is only a theoretical one alone. What you have to establish a practical love on Jesus which will come only when you first recognise the living Jesus of your time now.

He can be seen here: www.universal-spirituality.org
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« Reply #1874 on: March 25, 2011, 10:39:37 AM »

Jesus is not some where in heaven as you think. Jesus here on this very earth. Only thing is that you have to put effort in identifying Him. He is in human form here on earth.

What's His e-mail address?
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« Reply #1875 on: March 25, 2011, 10:41:27 AM »

Quote
You must not kill any living being for the sake of your food.


A truly ignorant statement from someone who claims "unity of belief" between Hinduism and Christianity:

From Acts 10:

9 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. 10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”
14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.”
15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed you must not call common.” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.




You do realize that passage in Acts has nothing to do with literal food and literal eating, right? It's a metaphor (and shocking one to a 1st century Jew) that gentiles are not "unclean" and can be Christians (part of the people of Israel) just like Jews.

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« Reply #1876 on: March 25, 2011, 01:22:57 PM »

A truly ignorant statement from someone who claims "unity of belief" between Hinduism and Christianity:

From Acts 10:

9 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. 10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”
14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.”
15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed you must not call common.” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.

You do realize that passage in Acts has nothing to do with literal food and literal eating, right? It's a metaphor (and shocking one to a 1st century Jew) that gentiles are not "unclean" and can be Christians (part of the people of Israel) just like Jews.

I don't think you can simply dismiss the literal meaning in favor of the contextually obvious spiritual meaning.  As has already been brought up, Christ Himself did eat fish - a point that cannot be easily dismissed by our pseudo-messianic friend here.
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« Reply #1877 on: March 25, 2011, 01:31:59 PM »

A truly ignorant statement from someone who claims "unity of belief" between Hinduism and Christianity:

From Acts 10:

9 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. 10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”
14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.”
15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed you must not call common.” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.

You do realize that passage in Acts has nothing to do with literal food and literal eating, right? It's a metaphor (and shocking one to a 1st century Jew) that gentiles are not "unclean" and can be Christians (part of the people of Israel) just like Jews.

I don't think you can simply dismiss the literal meaning in favor of the contextually obvious spiritual meaning.  As has already been brought up, Christ Himself did eat fish - a point that cannot be easily dismissed by our pseudo-messianic friend here.
Father, I always undserstood this in its most basic sense that we are not bound by kosher laws. Is this not at least a basic rudimenary understanding of the encounter Peter had? I realize there are deeper things happening in this encounter also.
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« Reply #1878 on: March 25, 2011, 01:36:58 PM »

Jesus is not some where in heaven as you think. Jesus here on this very earth. Only thing is that you have to put effort in identifying Him. He is in human form here on earth.

What's His e-mail address?

To guess the answer to this question, I am going to say:

antonyanil100 [at] yahoo [dot] co [dot] in

Yes, his email is publicly viewable in his profile, but let's not open it up to a bunch of spam bots.  Thank you!
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« Reply #1879 on: March 25, 2011, 01:53:15 PM »

Hinduism preaches rebirth. Christianity says that there is no rebirth. One has to solve this contradiction. I am giving a solution. You are welcome to give a better solution, if any.
I have a better solution.  Hinduism is wrong about many things, with this being one of them.  With that as an axiom, many of the contradictions are solved.
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« Reply #1880 on: March 25, 2011, 01:58:59 PM »

But a horse is horse is a horse, of course.
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« Reply #1881 on: March 25, 2011, 01:59:57 PM »

What you have to establish a practical love on Jesus which will come only when you first recognise the living Jesus of your time now.

He can be seen here: www.universal-spirituality.org

Roll Eyes  Oy yoy!  Talk about egotism.
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« Reply #1882 on: March 25, 2011, 02:12:30 PM »

But a horse is horse is a horse, of course.
"...and no one can talk to a horse, of course..."
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« Reply #1883 on: March 25, 2011, 02:13:21 PM »

A truly ignorant statement from someone who claims "unity of belief" between Hinduism and Christianity:

From Acts 10:

9 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. 10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”
14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.”
15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed you must not call common.” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.

You do realize that passage in Acts has nothing to do with literal food and literal eating, right? It's a metaphor (and shocking one to a 1st century Jew) that gentiles are not "unclean" and can be Christians (part of the people of Israel) just like Jews.

I don't think you can simply dismiss the literal meaning in favor of the contextually obvious spiritual meaning.  As has already been brought up, Christ Himself did eat fish - a point that cannot be easily dismissed by our pseudo-messianic friend here.

Father, I always undserstood this in its most basic sense that we are not bound by kosher laws. Is this not at least a basic rudimenary understanding of the encounter Peter had? I realize there are deeper things happening in this encounter also.

The encounter is immediately followed by the issue of gentile entry into the Church - an issue that Peter was to be challenged with immediately when he was called into the house of Cornelius.  So the vision was directly related to a spiritual meaning, but we cannot dismiss the obvious literal meaning (which you allude to) - it was, after all, decided at the Council of Jerusalem that the gentile believers would not have to follow Mosaic (amongst them kosher) law, but rather only the covenant with Noah.
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« Reply #1884 on: March 25, 2011, 02:14:57 PM »

But a horse is horse is a horse, of course.
"...and no one can talk to a horse, of course..."

That is, of course, unless the horse is the famous Mr. Ed!
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« Reply #1885 on: March 25, 2011, 02:22:58 PM »

A truly ignorant statement from someone who claims "unity of belief" between Hinduism and Christianity:

From Acts 10:

9 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. 10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”
14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.”
15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed you must not call common.” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.

You do realize that passage in Acts has nothing to do with literal food and literal eating, right? It's a metaphor (and shocking one to a 1st century Jew) that gentiles are not "unclean" and can be Christians (part of the people of Israel) just like Jews.

I don't think you can simply dismiss the literal meaning in favor of the contextually obvious spiritual meaning.  As has already been brought up, Christ Himself did eat fish - a point that cannot be easily dismissed by our pseudo-messianic friend here.

Father, I always undserstood this in its most basic sense that we are not bound by kosher laws. Is this not at least a basic rudimenary understanding of the encounter Peter had? I realize there are deeper things happening in this encounter also.

The encounter is immediately followed by the issue of gentile entry into the Church - an issue that Peter was to be challenged with immediately when he was called into the house of Cornelius.  So the vision was directly related to a spiritual meaning, but we cannot dismiss the obvious literal meaning (which you allude to) - it was, after all, decided at the Council of Jerusalem that the gentile believers would not have to follow Mosaic (amongst them kosher) law, but rather only the covenant with Noah.
Thank you.
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« Reply #1886 on: March 25, 2011, 05:33:08 PM »

I would think that the work based concept of reincarnation would see Christ as the fullest realization that one cannot achieve  enlightenment or whatever you call it in any incarnatiion or whatever and that this very salvation of Jesus Christ "was preached to every creature under heaven" (Colossians 1:23) based on your concept of consciousness even though that mindstream may not have heard it in every particular body it was in. Read Romans 10:9-13 & hopefullu now  you have heard it & now choose.

Jesus is not some where in heaven as you think. Jesus here on this very earth. Only thing is that you have to put effort in identifying Him. He is in human form here on earth. If you have not interest in finding out Him that means you have no real love on God. You love GOd now because He is invisible to you and you expect something from Jesus, some miracles etc etc. Therefore your devotion to invisible Jesus is corrupted and is only a theoretical one alone. What you have to establish a practical love on Jesus which will come only when you first recognise the living Jesus of your time now.

He can be seen here: www.universal-spirituality.org
That's not Jesus.  That's just some narcissist named Venu Gopala.
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« Reply #1887 on: March 25, 2011, 09:11:44 PM »

Jesus is not some where in heaven as you think. Jesus here on this very earth. Only thing is that you have to put effort in identifying Him. He is in human form here on earth.

What's His e-mail address?

www.universal-spirituality.org

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« Reply #1888 on: March 25, 2011, 09:15:23 PM »

Quote
You must not kill any living being for the sake of your food.


A truly ignorant statement from someone who claims "unity of belief" between Hinduism and Christianity:

From Acts 10:

9 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. 10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”
14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.”
15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed you must not call common.” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.




You do realize that passage in Acts has nothing to do with literal food and literal eating, right? It's a metaphor (and shocking one to a 1st century Jew) that gentiles are not "unclean" and can be Christians (part of the people of Israel) just like Jews.



That is what exactly I am telling. That vision shows that God is impartial and irrespective of religion, nation every body need God and His divine knowledge for upliftment. Even people are misinterpreting the visions for their selfishness and further killing the living beings for eating!!

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« Reply #1889 on: March 25, 2011, 09:17:53 PM »


That's not Jesus.  That's just some narcissist named Venu Gopala.

Jesus has to be here on this very earth now. Otherwise how He can interact with us with divine knowledge. God is very genious and He want to clarify all our doubts in a natural way. If Jesus is invisible and sitting in heaven, He cannot talk to us in a clear language in a correct audible voice which a normal human being is able to do. Therefore, JESUS comes down from the comforts of Heaven to uplift human beings through His fire, which is divine knowledge. If Jesus is invisible and remotely located it is impossible. THerefore Jesus comes in human form now...
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