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Author Topic: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism  (Read 96828 times) Average Rating: 0
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NorthernPines
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« Reply #180 on: October 29, 2010, 11:15:31 AM »

Northern Pines;

following is not a copy paste....

In my posts you might have noticed that a very important point is evolved out that the importance of spiritual effort and practical service to God, that is a very important pont also loving and serving GOd without any expectation...



You actually only need to tell us when what you are posting is in fact a copy and paste post. (as well as provide the appropriate link) You do not need to tell us when your post is not a copy and paste, however I appreciate you doing so as it shows good intentions on your part and in fact it helps distill any doubts others may have.  Much appreciated.

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« Reply #181 on: October 29, 2010, 11:17:07 AM »

well, it would be great if one could not sin. By the way, it sounds pellagian (heretical). The doctrine says that only our sins belong to us. Our good deeds are provided by the divine mercy.
And life is sufffering. Even in hinduism. We suffer because we are sinners, not because we have karma.
Ad Majorem Gloriam Dei.
I think it is valid philosophically. We just have to ask properly: why is Karma philosophy innapropriate to Christianity? Why we do not believe in it?
Actually the answer is very simple: Since Jesus come to rescue our sins, our sins have no poweer over us, since we repenth. So we do not have to suffer to evolve.
Ad Majorem Gloriam Dei.

But lot of Jesus believers are suffering now also (no offense please). My point is that even after beleiving or accepting Jesus christ as saviour one should really stop doing sins and also should increase our love to Him and work for Him without expecting anything in return...
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« Reply #182 on: October 29, 2010, 11:19:49 AM »

I think that if you answer properly, you can bring this person to Christ Light. If you think it is merely philosophical, you can bring him away of the Light.
Ad Majorem Gloriam Dei.
Dear Dattaswami,

Please stop your "spiritual" prosyletizing on this forum. Our Lord Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. (St. John 14:6) Christ is not a way. He is not a divine manifestation. He is not an enlightened guru or god. He is not merely one prophet amongst many others. Jesus Christ is Lord the Universe, the Second Person of the triune Godhead- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, One God!

You are disrespecting this forum with your unOrthodox views. Perhaps you are sincere, and I will assume that you are. But if you continue these types of posts, then you are violating the spiritual welfare and Christian intentions of this website. If indeed you mean well, then you will promote your heterodox ideas on your own website, not here.

Thank you and peace to you.


Selam
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« Reply #183 on: October 29, 2010, 11:24:19 AM »


In my posts you might have noticed that a very important point is evolved out that the importance of spiritual effort and practical service to God, that is a very important pont also loving and serving GOd without any expectation...

That is a very Orthodox Christian understanding as well. After all Jesus said the greatest commandment was to "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind", and the second was, "love your neighbor as yourself". I agree that true love of God to love out of pure love, not just to pretend to love God because of what He can do for us. I do realize there are some Christians who preach that God is sort of like Santa Clause or a magic genie, but even most prosperity preachers don't mean it exactly in that way. (though it does sound like it) But you're right, we should love God from our hearts, but some people don't start there; they need to learn to love God in purity and in truth. This is where God's transforming power and mercy comes in to transform us from the inside out to love more like Christ. I just don't see much a difference between what you're saying and what we believe on this issue in particular.

If I say I "love" Jesus, but only do so because he can do something for me, is that really love? I dunno. I'm not wise enough to know what other people's intentions are or are not. I can only speak for myself. Even in certain wings of the Eastern religions one here's much talk about meditation and enlightenment and praying to God "so I can become illumined", but that's the same thing you're talking about not doing. I think the best most of us can do is to do our best to love God without ulterior motives, most of us fail, but sometimes we have saints who achieve this level of Theosis (as we call it) that they truly love God for the sake of loving God. The rest of us can only strive to do that. That's my opinion anyways.


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don't even go there!


« Reply #184 on: October 29, 2010, 11:26:24 AM »

Maybe it's me, but I wonder if this person is using some really bad translation software?  Maybe all this actually makes some kind of sense in the orginal language.
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don't even go there!


« Reply #185 on: October 29, 2010, 12:05:53 PM »

Red shirts?  Is this a thread about "Star Trek" now?
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« Reply #186 on: October 29, 2010, 12:26:35 PM »

From your website:

"Swami means Lord and Datta means the Lord donated to human beings through a human body. Thus I am named as 'Datta Swami' by My devotees."

 Since I'm not a devotee of yours, I reckon I'll call you Hugh Morris.  Wink

 Veda says that God is the infinite right knowledge and that God is the excellent knowledge (Satyam Jnanam…, Prajnanam….). This does not mean that God is the knowledge itself. It only means that the possessor of right and excellent knowledge is God and such knowledge is His correct identification mark since it is His inseparable characteristic. If some body wears a red shirt always, the red shirt becomes his identity mark and you can call him as the red shirt like calling “Oh! Red shirt! Come here”. Gita gives clarification on this point, which says that the possessor of knowledge is God (Jnaanitvaatmaiava……).  Since God enters the human being only, such identification is mentioned. The human being is always characterized by the knowledge. Knowledge is one sided characteristic of awareness. It means knowledge is always associated with awareness and awareness need not be associated always with knowledge.

An animal or bird has awareness but no knowledge. Therefore, you should not take awareness as the meaning of the words indicating knowledge in Veda like Jnanam and Prajnanam. This clarification is given in Gita, which says that God enters human body (Manusheem….). Hence, Gita always gives clarifications on Veda. Such correct clarification can be correctly clarified by the human incarnation only since the same God, who said Gita, can alone give the original sense of the text. The Author himself can alone give the correct sense of his own statement. Since, God is one and the same in all the human incarnations, any human incarnation can clarify the text said by any other human incarnation.


This is the story of the great war that Rikki-tikki-tavi fought
single-handed, through the bath-rooms of the big bungalow in
Segowlee cantonment. Darzee, the Tailorbird, helped him, and
Chuchundra, the musk-rat, who never comes out into the middle of
the floor, but always creeps round by the wall, gave him advice,
but Rikki-tikki did the real fighting.

Thus spoke Rudyard Kipling
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« Reply #187 on: October 29, 2010, 12:27:58 PM »

"Swami means Lord and Datta means the Lord donated to human beings through a human body. Thus I am named as 'Datta Swami' by My devotees."

Since we aren't your devotees, we can't call you that.  I vote we call you Hugh Morris.  Smiley Wink

When I become a guru/master/whatever I'm going to insist that my devotees call me Buff Hardbody Tongue



I have come down to preach and reach each one of you here. I am impartial from My side. Your attachments depend on your own merits and defects. I am controlling My fame as long as I am alive, which will rise like a Tsunami after My exit. There is a reason for this. To accept the human incarnation itself creates the seed of egoism and jealousy. If the human form of God becomes famous while alive, the seed of egoism and jealousy will grow like a huge tree even in the heart of the closest devotee. Priests accepted the past human prophets. But to accept Jesus as Prophet in live form, jealousy entered as seed.

 Jesus was drawing crowds by His divine knowledge and the growing fame of Jesus developed the jealousy more and more, which lead to His crucification. Even His closest devotee betrayed Him due to jealousy and egoism. God is not fond of fame because He is bored with the fame in the upper world. Only human beings are fond of fame. God enjoys defame, which is not available in the upper world. Crucification was defame and the Lord enjoyed it well here.



He was a mongoose, rather like a little cat in his fur and his
tail, but quite like a weasel in his head and his habits. His
eyes and the end of his restless nose were pink. He could scratch
himself anywhere he pleased with any leg, front or back, that he
chose to use. He could fluff up his tail till it looked like a
bottle brush, and his war cry as he scuttled through the long
grass was: "Rikk-tikk-tikki-tikki-tchk!"

Thus spoke Rudyard Kipling
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« Reply #188 on: October 29, 2010, 01:01:24 PM »

God will never give anything free to any body. Proper deservigness is needed. Jesus Himself has quoted this.

"...For he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."




Have you completely read my reply?


Without eligibility, God will never give anything to anybody at any time. But the devotee must take the first step towards God. The necessity is for the devotee. The Veda says ‘Aptakamsya’ i.e., ‘God has attained everything and there is nothing which He has to achieve’. You have come near the sea with a pot. You should take a step into the water and make an effort to fill your pot.

Then the sea moves in to fill the pot with its water. Therefore human effort is necessary.


Actually God made the first move in our salvation.

"But God commends his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

Yes, we must choose to accept or reject this for ourselves, but Christ destroyed Death, whether we want it or not.
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« Reply #189 on: October 29, 2010, 01:06:45 PM »

What's a gita?  Is that a metric measurement like giga?
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« Reply #190 on: October 29, 2010, 04:42:12 PM »


I have come down to preach and reach each one of you here. I am impartial from My side. Your attachments depend on your own merits and defects. I am controlling My fame as long as I am alive, which will rise like a Tsunami after My exit.


Well, I came down from a moon in the third ring around Uranus, and the only thing that I feel rising like a Tsunami after reading this stuff is my lunch.
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« Reply #191 on: October 29, 2010, 08:01:16 PM »

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt


He was a mongoose, rather like a little cat in his fur and his
tail, but quite like a weasel in his head and his habits. His
eyes and the end of his restless nose were pink. He could scratch
himself anywhere he pleased with any leg, front or back, that he
chose to use. He could fluff up his tail till it looked like a
bottle brush, and his war cry as he scuttled through the long
grass was: "Rikk-tikk-tikki-tikki-tchk!"

Thus spoke Rudyard Kipling



This brings back memories! I really miss reading the Just So Stories in school.  Smiley
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« Reply #192 on: October 30, 2010, 12:35:58 AM »

From your website:

"Swami means Lord and Datta means the Lord donated to human beings through a human body. Thus I am named as 'Datta Swami' by My devotees."

 Since I'm not a devotee of yours, I reckon I'll call you Hugh Morris.  Wink

 Veda says that God is the infinite right knowledge and that God is the excellent knowledge (Satyam Jnanam…, Prajnanam….). This does not mean that God is the knowledge itself. It only means that the possessor of right and excellent knowledge is God and such knowledge is His correct identification mark since it is His inseparable characteristic. If some body wears a red shirt always, the red shirt becomes his identity mark and you can call him as the red shirt like calling “Oh! Red shirt! Come here”. Gita gives clarification on this point, which says that the possessor of knowledge is God (Jnaanitvaatmaiava……).  Since God enters the human being only, such identification is mentioned. The human being is always characterized by the knowledge. Knowledge is one sided characteristic of awareness. It means knowledge is always associated with awareness and awareness need not be associated always with knowledge.

An animal or bird has awareness but no knowledge. Therefore, you should not take awareness as the meaning of the words indicating knowledge in Veda like Jnanam and Prajnanam. This clarification is given in Gita, which says that God enters human body (Manusheem….). Hence, Gita always gives clarifications on Veda. Such correct clarification can be correctly clarified by the human incarnation only since the same God, who said Gita, can alone give the original sense of the text. The Author himself can alone give the correct sense of his own statement. Since, God is one and the same in all the human incarnations, any human incarnation can clarify the text said by any other human incarnation.


This is the story of the great war that Rikki-tikki-tavi fought
single-handed, through the bath-rooms of the big bungalow in
Segowlee cantonment. Darzee, the Tailorbird, helped him, and
Chuchundra, the musk-rat, who never comes out into the middle of
the floor, but always creeps round by the wall, gave him advice,
but Rikki-tikki did the real fighting.

Thus spoke Rudyard Kipling

Meaning of this post is that, God comes in human form and HIs identity mark is the true divine knoweldge He speaks. Divine knowledge coming out of God in human form existing on this earth now is the identity mark of GOd in Him....
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« Reply #193 on: October 30, 2010, 12:44:44 AM »

Veda says that God is the infinite right knowledge and that God is the excellent knowledge (Satyam Jnanam…, Prajnanam….).

We don't recognize that authority around these parts.
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« Reply #194 on: October 30, 2010, 01:00:52 AM »

Veda says that God is the infinite right knowledge and that God is the excellent knowledge (Satyam Jnanam…, Prajnanam….).

We don't recognize that authority around these parts.

You can recognise, through His divine knowledge. He is alive now in this world. His recognising sign is His divine knoweldge, through His divine knowledge you can identify Him....

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« Reply #195 on: October 30, 2010, 01:03:18 AM »


I have come down to preach and reach each one of you here. I am impartial from My side. Your attachments depend on your own merits and defects. I am controlling My fame as long as I am alive, which will rise like a Tsunami after My exit.


Well, I came down from a moon in the third ring around Uranus, and the only thing that I feel rising like a Tsunami after reading this stuff is my lunch.



‘Coming down’ does not mean distancewise or spacewise and it is not a statement of spacial dimensions. It does not mean that coming from sky to the earth. It is a question of God coming to this world in human form. We are at a lower level. He is in the higher level.

 He comes from higher level to the lower level. Here, level means level of dignity or level of status. Suppose a king comes to the hut of a begger, we will say that the king has come down to the begger’s house. This does not mean that the king’s house is in the upper level and begger’s house is at the lower level. God is certainly at the highest level than all of us. Here, the word ‘down’ indicates respect to the highest position of God. Suppose a professor teaches to LKG students, we say that the Professor has come down to the level of LKG. This means that he has come down in level of standard.

It also means creator is beyond creation. All the creation is pervaded by space. Our mind cannot cross the space and God is beyond the space. The creator, who is beyond space, enters the space i. e., creation. He becomes mediated. He enters a medium and the mediation of original God is known as ‘coming down’. It is only a poetic language and a figurative speech.
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don't even go there!


« Reply #196 on: October 30, 2010, 01:06:05 AM »

Yes, He is alive through Jesus Christ, who comes to us in the Eucharist. Smiley
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« Reply #197 on: October 30, 2010, 03:48:51 AM »

Yes, He is alive through Jesus Christ, who comes to us in the Eucharist. Smiley

Only a living God can speaks to us. A living God can alone clear our doubts. Even though Jesus is available in Eucharist, He cannot speak through the Eucharist. At the same time Jesus is available in a human form. His Holiness Shri Dattaswami is the present Human form of Jesus. You can talk to Him, and clarify all your doubts. Eucharist cannot speak to you, it is inert. But living Jesus is available in present Human form of God.
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« Reply #198 on: October 30, 2010, 03:51:02 AM »

Yes, He is alive through Jesus Christ, who comes to us in the Eucharist. Smiley

God is a living God. He is a God who can speak to us the divine knowledge live. Such God is known as Human incarnation. Human incarnation is God Himself, because God is alive in that Human form. God is present in that Son of God. And God speaks through Him the divine knowledge. God can never speak non-sense and God alone can preach about Him self, hence there is a need for God to come to this world in human form to reveal the knoweldge about Him...Hence He comes in human form....
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« Reply #199 on: October 30, 2010, 03:57:53 AM »

.

That is a very Orthodox Christian understanding as well. After all Jesus said the greatest commandment was to "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind", and the second was, "love your neighbor as yourself". I agree that tr..........

NP
Right. Love to God (Nivrutti) is even greater than love to society or human being (Pravrutti). One can never love an invisible God. God should be available to us right now in human form, then only our love to Him is TESTED PRACTICALLY. Thus Jesus comes in human form in every generation so that you can prove your love to Him practically. Jesus is a practical God not theoretical God. A practical God see the practical aspect of your love. Your prayer forms a very little fraction of your love to God, remaining part is the practical service you do to the present human form of Jesus. It is the point which need attention. Practical love to the GOD PRESENT IN HUMAN FORM HERE ON EARTH RIGHT NOW....
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« Reply #200 on: October 30, 2010, 04:05:32 AM »





Without eligibility, God will never give anything to anybody at any time. But the devotee must take the

Actually God made the first move in our salvation.

"But God commends his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

Yes, we must choose to accept or reject this for ourselves, but Christ destroyed Death, whether we want it or not.

Such preaching are for low level devotees so that they will start their spiritual journey. For exmaple if one says, Jesus died for your sins 2000 yrs back, every will get attracted to God since it is freely given. So masses of people get attracted even a very big sinner also become a believer in God. It is the starting step, the journey has began.

Next step is to serach for Jesus who is alive in this world. Only a living Jesus can carry your sins upon Him when you are alive. For example when Jesus went to St Peters house, his mother in law was suffering from fever. Then Jesus take that fever alive then and there itself and relived the fever for the sake of Peters mother. Thus God should be simultaneously available in the world to take the sins upton His body to releive the sins of the then alive devotees. Hence the truth is that Jesus comes in every human generation and you must meet Him and serve Him and learn His divine knowledge and propagate it without any expecation of anything in return. When you reach such a higher level of high level devotion to the living Jesus of this time, then secretely Jesus will take your sins upon His body now here itself. All this happen only when your love to living Jesus of this generation becomes very huge and defeat all other love to other things of the world.

Thus identification of present human incarnation (Jesus) is very imprtant, learning His divine knowledge is the next step...and participating His mission of divine knoweldge is also a part of this, which should be done without any selfishness to be fulfilled....
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« Reply #201 on: October 30, 2010, 04:30:12 AM »

What's a gita?  Is that a metric measurement like giga?

Gita is a scripture of GOd like bible.

I will quote some verses for Gita for your understanding:

And whoever, at the time of death, quits his body, remembering Me (Jesus) alone, at once attains My nature. Of this there is no doubt.



For one who remembers Me (Jesus) without deviation, I am easy to obtain, O son of Prtha, because of his constant engagement in devotional service.


After attaining Me, the great souls, who are yogis in devotion, never return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because they have attained the highest perfection.



For one who worships Me, giving up all his activities unto Me and being devoted to Me without deviation, engaged in devotional service and always meditating upon Me, who has fixed his mind upon Me, O son of Prtha, for him I am the swift deliverer from the ocean of birth and death.



Just fix your mind upon Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and engage all your intelligence in Me. Thus you will live in Me always, without a doubt.


One who is not envious but who is a kind friend to all living entities, who does not think himself a proprietor, who is free from false ego and equal both in happiness and distress, who is always satisfied and engaged in devotional service with determination and whose mind and intelligence are in agreement with Me--he is very dear to Me.

He for whom no one is put into difficulty and who is not disturbed by anxiety, who is steady in happiness and distress, is very dear to Me.



A devotee who is not dependent on the ordinary course of activities, who is pure, expert, without cares, free from all pains, and who does not strive for some result, is very dear to Me.


One who neither grasps pleasure or grief, who neither laments nor desires, and who renounces both auspicious and inauspicious things, is very dear to Me.


One who is equal to friends and enemies, who is equipoised in honor and dishonor, heat and cold, happiness and distress, fame and infamy, who is always free from contamination, always silent and satisfied with anything, who doesn't care for any residence, who is fixed in knowledge and engaged in devotional service, is very dear to Me.



He who follows this imperishable path of devotional service and who completely engages himself with faith, making Me the supreme goal, is very, very dear to Me.



One who neither hates nor desires the fruits of his activities is known to be always renounced. Such a person, liberated from all dualities, easily overcomes material bondage and is completely liberated, O mighty-armed Arjuna.

Unless one is engaged in the devotional service of the Lord, mere renunciation of activities cannot make one happy. The sages, purified by works of devotion, achieve the Supreme without delay.

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« Reply #202 on: October 30, 2010, 04:38:26 AM »

Let's cut to the chase.  Who is the present incarnation of Jesus?
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« Reply #203 on: October 30, 2010, 04:43:19 AM »

One who works in devotion, who is a pure soul, and who controls his mind and senses, is dear to everyone, and everyone is dear to him. Though always working, such a man is never entangled.



A person in the divine consciousness, although engaged in seeing, hearing, touching, smelling, eating, moving about, sleeping and breathing, always knows within himself that he actually does nothing at all. Because while speaking, evacuating, receiving, opening or closing his eyes, he always knows that only the material senses are engaged with their objects and that he is aloof from them



One who performs his duty without attachment, surrendering the results unto the Supreme God, is not affected by sinful action, as the lotus leaf is untouched by water.


The steadily devoted soul attains unadulterated peace because he offers the result of all activities to Me; whereas a person who is not in union with the Divine, who is greedy for the fruits of his labor, becomes entangled.



When one's intelligence, mind, faith and refuge are all fixed in the Supreme, then one becomes fully cleansed of misgivings through complete knowledge and thus proceeds straight on the path of liberation.


A person who neither rejoices upon achieving something pleasant nor laments upon obtaining something unpleasant, who is self-intelligent, unbewildered, and who knows the science of God, is to be understood as already situated in Transcendence.


Such a liberated person is not attracted to material sense pleasure or external objects but is always in trance, enjoying the pleasure within. In this way the self-realized person enjoys unlimited happiness, for he concentrates on the Supreme.



An intelligent person does not take part in the sources of misery, which are due to contact with the material senses. O son of Kunti, such pleasures have a beginning and an end, and so the wise man does not delight in them.

Before giving up this present body, if one is able to tolerate the urges of the material senses and check the force of desire and anger, he is a yogi and is happy in this world.


One whose happiness is within, who is active within, who rejoices within and is illumined within, is actually the perfect mystic. He is liberated in the Supreme, and ultimately he attains the Supreme.



The above are the few verses of Gita (http://www.asitis.com/5/index.html)

Just to show all you that it is the Same God Jesus who spoke Gita also....
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« Reply #204 on: October 30, 2010, 04:59:37 AM »

Ok, I'll take the bait: who is the present incarnation of God?
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« Reply #205 on: October 30, 2010, 05:13:01 AM »

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." ~Matthew 7:15
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« Reply #206 on: October 30, 2010, 05:22:12 AM »

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." ~Matthew 7:15


That sums it up best.



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« Reply #207 on: October 30, 2010, 06:50:02 AM »

Ok, I'll take the bait: who is the present incarnation of God?

Very good question. In the Chemistry laboratory the practical procedure is given to you and the salt is given.  According to the procedure you have to analyze the substance and find out the name of the salt by yourself.  Veda says that the infinite true special knowledge, which cannot be preached by any one and which generates love and bliss in our hearts is the main characteristic of the Lord.  He possesses super powers but does not use for exhibition due to egoism.  By these confirmatory tests you can find out the fullest form of the Lord (Paripurna Avatara) who is Lord Datta (God) himself.  Of course all the preachers are the human incarnations of the disciples of Lord Datta. 
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« Reply #208 on: October 30, 2010, 06:53:50 AM »

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." ~Matthew 7:15

Yes one has to be very altert in this world, because it is first of all very difficult to identify the real God in human form since the real God in human form is mixed with all other ignornat preachers. So one has to put effort to identify Him. Then what is the clue to identify Him?

The above problem is to be avoided since there is no other alternative than getting the right direction from the knowledge of the right human incarnation. The right knowledge is very essential without which the correct direction in the spiritual effort is lost. All the doubts about the right knowledge can be efficiently clarified from the right human incarnation only. Unless the doubts are perfectly clarified, the knowledge cannot be implemented by the human being. If the direction is wrong, all the effort goes waste and hence the right knowledge plays very important role in any effort. Since there is no other way than the human incarnation (Nanyahpanthah…Shruti), you have to avoid all the exploitations and stick to the concept.

The clue to identify the right human incarnation becomes very important point. The only clue is to recognize the right knowledge, since the right incarnation alone gives the right knowledge. What is the way to recognize the right knowledge? Your  inner conscience alone can recognize the right knowledge.
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« Reply #209 on: October 30, 2010, 06:58:31 AM »

Let's cut to the chase.  Who is the present incarnation of Jesus?

I have already answered, in other posts...Please refer it.....
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« Reply #210 on: October 30, 2010, 07:04:37 AM »

Let's cut to the chase.  Who is the present incarnation of Jesus?

There is a basic fundamental in your question.. Because any body can proclaim himself as God, but how to identify it?

The only identification mark is the true divine knowledge which God alone can preach. Even demons do miracles by they are not God, why because they do not posses divine knoweldge. They got the power to do the miracles from, GOd by doing penance and due to their rigidity, God gave them those powers. God in human form also can perform miracles but He never do it for crowd pulling and fame. THE only point which identify God in human form as God is the divine knowledge He preaches. Then who will decide that that divine knowledge is correct? You yourself, your inner conciousness will tell you this knoweldge is correct or not.

God never preach foolishness. He never tell, follow Me blindly. His divine knowledge is like double edged sword, which cuts the ignorance or doubts of a person. It is like fire which burns the ignorance of us.

Yohanann, came before Jesus. He could not preach the true divine knoweldge , he could only preach the knoweldge with lesser truth and lot of ignorance and it is like water. But Jesus then Human incarnation preached fire. Here fire means true divine knoweldge which removes all our doubts since it contains 100% truth and not polluted at all. Such divine knoweldge removes all our doubts completely and our devotion to GOd will increase and attain a maxiumum....
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« Reply #211 on: October 30, 2010, 07:06:34 AM »

Jesus used Reason

The following is the knowledge spoken by me to devotees previously...

If you see Bible, Jesus gives reason everywhere in His concepts. For every statement He gives the reason. When the priests asked Him that He should not have saved the animal, which has fallen in the pit on the festival day, He gave the reason for His effort to save that animal. He analyzed the Old Testament and gave logical interpretations. He did not mind to cut some irrational blind statements present in the Old Testament, by giving rational modifications.

He has fulfilled His duty to be the true guide of the humanity. Whenever He leaves the world these rigid people twist and pollute the meanings of scriptures. To rectify He comes again and again. When the teacher leaves for a few minutes the class becomes undisciplined. The teacher comes to the class again and again. For teaching, the human form is essential. A statue can not teach you. If you think Him formless, He is not speaking to you from the sky or space or air. The human body is most convenient medium for the human beings to hear preaching of the God. The main goal of God is to preach the human beings and correct them to put in the right spiritual path.

For beginners, He does some miracles as signs for His presence in the human body. The realized souls will detect Him even without those signs. Sheep see the shepherd and come near by recognizing him with eyes. Some milder sheep come near by hearing his voice, which is a miracle. The mildest sheep try to go away and are punished by the stick of shepherd, which is nothing but permanent hell. Therefore, if you keep Jesus in the place of the present human incarnation and place the same blind priests in the place of present blind followers, you can understand the truth because the same story and the same cinema is repeated with different actors having different names.

 This is the best way of understanding the truth. Those priests also opposed Jesus, when He argued with wonderful reason. The duty of the teacher finishes by teaching clearly to the class. It is up to the student to grasp it and pass or twist it and fail following the sweet emotional advises of bad blind friends. The Lord is not worried about the percentage of pass because there is no fault in His teaching. He should not be blamed for the pass or failure of the students. A student himself is to be blamed. When the messenger comes to the earth, he delivers his duty so that the God is pleased with him in the upper world.

 He is not bothered about the fame in this world or the number of followers. God will not find fault with the messenger if the human beings did not pass. He finds fault with the messenger if the message is not properly delivered. Jesus never bothered about propagation of His knowledge. His aim was only to sit on the right side of His pleased Father after doing the duty assigned by Him. He never cared even if the people rejected, insulted and even crucified Him. His aim was God but not the world.
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« Reply #212 on: October 30, 2010, 08:39:27 AM »

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." ~Matthew 7:15

Yes one has to be very altert in this world, because it is first of all very difficult to identify the real God in human form since the real God in human form is mixed with all other ignornat preachers. So one has to put effort to identify Him. Then what is the clue to identify Him?

The above problem is to be avoided since there is no other alternative than getting the right direction from the knowledge of the right human incarnation. The right knowledge is very essential without which the correct direction in the spiritual effort is lost. All the doubts about the right knowledge can be efficiently clarified from the right human incarnation only. Unless the doubts are perfectly clarified, the knowledge cannot be implemented by the human being. If the direction is wrong, all the effort goes waste and hence the right knowledge plays very important role in any effort. Since there is no other way than the human incarnation (Nanyahpanthah…Shruti), you have to avoid all the exploitations and stick to the concept.

The clue to identify the right human incarnation becomes very important point. The only clue is to recognize the right knowledge, since the right incarnation alone gives the right knowledge. What is the way to recognize the right knowledge? Your  inner conscience alone can recognize the right knowledge.


Has anybody identified the God in human form of the 21st century?

To my knowledge nobody has found him and so his present incarnation on earth would seem a bit of a waste of time.

Of course there is the incarnation of Christ who lives in London.....

"According to a London artist Benjamin Creme, Lord Maitreya, the Christ lives in the Asian community in the East End of London, England, UK. In July 1977 Maitreya emerged from His centre in the Himalayas and travelled to London through Pakistan. Since then He has lived in London as an ordinary man concerned with modern problems. Maitreya has been emerging as a spokesman in the Pakistani-Indian community. He is not a religious leader but an educator in the broadest sense, pointing the way out of the present world crisis."
http://www.einterface.net/gamini/christ.html


Is this the person to whom you are pointing, dear Swami?

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« Reply #213 on: October 30, 2010, 10:25:10 AM »

Let's cut to the chase.  Who is the present incarnation of Jesus?

According to his website, our new friend is the present Incarnation of God. Smiley
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« Reply #214 on: October 30, 2010, 10:33:26 AM »

In that sense, of course, he is wrong.

However, he may just have a poor understanding of what Jesus DID tell us:  namely that we should treat everyone we encounter *as if* they are Him - i.e., "whatever you do to the least of my brethren, you do unto Me."

In that case, EVERYONE we meet is the "incarnation of Jesus", as to how we treat them.
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« Reply #215 on: October 30, 2010, 10:43:14 AM »

"You're not a God.  Trust me, this is 12 years of Catholic school talkin'."  - Rita (Andie McDowell) to Phil (Bill Murray), "Groundhog Day"  Smiley
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« Reply #216 on: October 30, 2010, 10:46:30 AM »

"You're not a God.  Trust me, this is 12 years of Catholic school talkin'."  - Rita (Andie McDowell) to Phil (Bill Murray), "Groundhog Day"  Smiley
Grin laugh laugh

Very nice.

"I'm A god, not THE God...at least I don't think I am."
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« Reply #217 on: October 30, 2010, 10:49:36 AM »

If you're God, tell me where my car keys are.
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« Reply #218 on: October 30, 2010, 10:50:59 AM »


 Thus Jesus comes in human form in every generation so that you can prove your love to Him practically. Jesus is a practical God not theoretical God. A practical God see the practical aspect of your love. Your prayer forms a very little fraction of your love to God, remaining part is the practical service you do to the present human form of Jesus.

So we have to find the present Incarnation and serve him or her? Is that what you are saying? I have a couple of problems with this.

First, by what methods do we determine who is the present Incarnation? According to your website YOU are the present Incarnation, but Sathya Sai Baba also claims this, along with many others. How am I to determine if you or Sai Baba is the present Incarnation? What about those who in fact do not claim this for themselves, but whom their followers claim or at least speculate they are the present Incarnation, like Ammachi? I would think she might actually be a better fit as as far as I know she doesn't claim this herself, but rather her followers claim it. That brings me to my second issue/problem. I am skeptical of anyone who comes right out and says, "I am an Incarnation of God, worship and serve me!" This is at best a sign that that individual has not yet shed him or herself of the ego, (and thus cannot be God) at worst, well who knows, the worst could be a lot of different things to different people.

A very clear teaching of the vast majority of Hinduism (which many do call the universal religion) is that every person is different and each person should be free to choose the Avatar or Avatars which best suits their spiritual life. Even if you were the "present" Incarnation of God, certainly you would recognize that though you may be a "fit" for some, you won't be for others. Since God does not change, and His message is indeed universal it doesn't matter (according to Hindu teaching) if I am a devotee of Jesus, krishna, Sathya Sai Baba or Ammachi because they are all teaching the same thing anyways. So what would be the point of "serving" a present Incarnation and worshipping him or her when serving Krishna is exactly the same thing? And what of Vedanta spriituality which often bypasses the need for Avatars, and sees such devotion as merely for the beginners?


Quote
Practical love to the GOD PRESENT IN HUMAN FORM HERE ON EARTH RIGHT NOW....


What of the great teachers on non-duality which says God is every where and in each of us? What of the example of Ammachi who teaches LOVE of each other is the best devotion to God, and not to be so worried about specific Incarnations over the needs of our fellow humans (and animals).

You must understand that claiming we need to be devoted to YOU is going to seem problematic. Jesus never claimed such importance for himself, but rather when someone came to him saying "good teacher" Jesus replied, "Why do you call me good, only God is good!" Yes, we believe Jesus was God Incarnate, but He claimed no glory for himself. Which is why, if there was a present Incarnation of God, I would lean towards someone like Ammachi who claims no glory for herself.

I do agree with you, practical love of God is what matters. But I try to do that in carrying out my Lord's teachings, to love my neighbor as myself. This is hard enough in life, trying to accept that you are also the Logos Incarnate, when you are claiming contradictory things to previous Incarnations is a bit tough to accept. If you want to discuss the importance of practical love, that's fine. If you want to talk comparative religion, that's great, but if you're trying to convince of your opinion of yourself, that I'm afraid isn't going to fly well, even with me who is pretty darn ecumenical (though I wasn't always), but I definitely have my limits.

NP
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« Reply #219 on: October 30, 2010, 10:56:10 AM »

In that sense, of course, he is wrong.

However, he may just have a poor understanding of what Jesus DID tell us:  namely that we should treat everyone we encounter *as if* they are Him - i.e., "whatever you do to the least of my brethren, you do unto Me."

In that case, EVERYONE we meet is the "incarnation of Jesus", as to how we treat them.

Agreed! And this was my point about Ammachi, (ie: the hugging saint). This is her teaching as well. (which she freely admits Jesus taught 2000 years ago) Hopefully he will see that outward "service" to a single individual is not the teaching of Christ, or many Hindu saints, gurus and Avatars (if one accepts Avatars that is), but rather service to our fellow man, ALL mankind is what matters. In feeding the poor we are worshiping and serving God.

NP

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« Reply #220 on: October 30, 2010, 10:57:52 AM »

I'm intrigued by your knowledge of Hinduism, NP.  Frankly it's a religion I know little about.

Could you perhaps recommend a good basic book about it? Thanks!
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« Reply #221 on: October 30, 2010, 11:07:34 AM »

If you're God, tell me where my car keys are.

That's what St. Anthony is there for. God's a busy man, but he's good at delegation  Tongue
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« Reply #222 on: October 30, 2010, 11:37:58 AM »

If you're God, tell me where my car keys are.

Your question is interesting and expected only. Jesus was made blind by tying a cloth around His eyes and soldiers beat Him and asked HIm to tell the name of the person if He were God. Generally people mock GOd when He comes in human form. They think that GOd is only  the source of power. His first identity mark is the true divine knowledge. That Lady did not go to Jesus, but Jesus went to the well of Jacob and was waiting for her under the scrotching sun. Here God in human form personally went to that particular lady, why because she deserved it.

God will never do miracles for show. Jesus was tempted by the Satan to prove His divinity through miracles. Jesus refused and rebuked Satan.

Let us imagine if I say your misplaced Key details then also you will tell I am a black magician. Thus miralce alone is not a proof. THe divine knowledge is the proof.

Miracles are performed according to program and wish of God. If somebody asks for a miracle and if it is included in the divine program, it will happen. Human incarnation is a two-in-one system. God acts in the medium as current. Only current does the miracle. The fan (the son of God) cannot move without current. Miracles happen by the will of God. It is between the one who wants proof as miracle and the God. It is upto to God to respond to him.


Ultimately, the miracle occurs through the medium. The response to this answer must be from God. I am not claiming that I have done the miracle. I explained it clearly in My work the ‘Mahima-Yamuna’. I only act as a mike. I am not the creator of the knowledge or miracle. I am just an amplifier or mike and He is the speaker.


Sometime back, one day Shri Lakshman, Mumbai, after reading the knowledge given by Me, telephoned in the night around 10 pm. He asked Me that he has a desire to experience scent of lotus flower as a miracle from Me. I replied to him that you want to test Me whether when you ask this, will it happen or not. I told him why you should go down to such a low level. After this conversation, he kept the receiver back. Immediately for next one hour, he was immersed in deep scent (in the measures of buckets poured on to his head) even after he reached his house. His mother also experienced the scent. At last, unable to bear the scent, he telephoned Me to stop the scent. I stopped it. In this case, God responded to Him. It depends on the will of God.
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« Reply #223 on: October 30, 2010, 11:47:23 AM »

In that sense, of course, he is wrong.

However, he may just have a poor understanding of what Jesus DID tell us:  namely that we should treat everyone we encounter *as if* they are Him - i.e., "whatever you do to the least of my brethren, you do unto Me."

In that case, EVERYONE we meet is the "incarnation of Jesus", as to how we treat them.

What you are reffering i will explain. GOd loves His devotees like anything. Jesus really love His disciples very much. His disciples left everything for Him and was following Him and worked for His mission of divine knowledge propagation. If  you serve such disciples of Human incarnation, you are indirectly serving God only, God will be immensely pleased. If you give food to such devotees of GOd, God will be very happy. If you give food to present human form of GOd, you are giving food to God directly since He is eating it directly.

Thus service done to God in human form and His devotees will be taken as a great thing in the eyes of God. Like wise if you abuse God in human form and His devotees, the punishment will be severe.

God advised to love even enemy. Jesus preached it. What is the reson for such preaching. The reason is that if you love other people and consider them as your dear and near then in effect you are conquereing your jealosy and egoism towards other co-human beings. When you are matured in this, that is serving others as yourself, then when God in huamn form also comes to you, you will respect Him. Thus you will be eligible to recognise Him, even though He appears in the form an ordinary human being. EGO and JEALOSY are the main two factors which prevent one from recognising GOd in human form. Hence the preaching that one should love others as oneself is a training to remove Jealosy and Egoism.....
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« Reply #224 on: October 30, 2010, 12:13:37 PM »


First, by what methods do we determine who is the present Incarnation? According to your website YOU are the present Incarnation, but Sathya Sai Baba also claims this, along with many others. How am I to determine if you or Sai Baba is the present Incarnation? What about those who in fact do not claim this for themselves, but whom their followers claim or at least speculate they are the present Incarnation, like Ammachi? I would think she might actually be a better fit as as far as I know she doesn't claim this herself, but rather her followers claim it. That brings me to my second issue/problem. I am skeptical of anyone who comes right out and says, "I am an Incarnation of God, worship and serve me!" This is at best a sign that that individual has not yet shed him or herself of the ego, (and thus cannot be God) at worst, well who knows, the worst could be a lot of different things to different people.


This is very interesing argument. Who is Human incarnation, Sai baba is also there, others are also there. Then how to find the human incarnation.

The Human incarnation which suits to your level is the Human incarnation for you. Same God exists in many human incarnations at the same time to cater to devotees of different levels. If you go to Sai baba, He mainly preaches about loving others, serving others, doing social service etc. He do not preach that He is God Himself many. What is the reason. At lower level path of loving or direct service cannot be introduced publically. It is not a public program, because majority of the people are at very low level and God has to preach at a lower level to them so that they can be uplifted to a higher level. THis does not mean that God is incapable. God is very much capable, but the devotees are not very much capable to understand higher divine knoweldge. Thus when Sai baba preaches that He is the present human form of GOd and if He preaches social service it means that it cater to that level of devotees to whome such preaching suits so that their ego and jealosy towards co-human being are controlled and over a period eliminated.

At the highest level, God preaches true divine knoweldge and He preaches His personal service in His mission of divine knowledge proapgation. Yes, this is very very tough preaching. Then true colour of people comes out. They will have millions of question. First question is: How this ordinary fellow who is just looking like is God? Second why GOd need service? All these practical question will arise in plenty. Thus at the higher level there will be only very few direct devotees of God in huamn form who preaches the path of loving service to God.

Generally the preaching at the higher level is misunderstood by the masses. Jesus preached mainly (Pravrutti: Social service) to masses. Because masses cannot digest higher level of divine knoweldge. Mainly they were behind bread and getting cure etc. They were not for Him but for His power and use it for their personal purpose. Thus such people are underserving due to their over attachment to world and little attachment to God. Hence if Jesus preached Nivrutti (loving practical service to God in Human form) these people could not digest. Thus to such people He acted like a messenger of GOd only and preach only Pravrutti. But to disciples He preached the path of Nivrutti which invovles lot of sacrifice:

Luke—14:26 to 27

“If any one comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple’’.



Such preaching if done to massess then masses will run away there and there itself, with out any delay. Hence He preached such high level truth to His disciples only. He also revealed to St.Peter that He is the God Himself (Christ) and strictly prohibited him not to tell to other. What is the reason, if peter says that Jesus is God in human form to ordinary people then ordinary people will tell that Jesus is a mad person. How can He be God? All such question will come due to their undeservingness. To such people Nivrutti cannot be preached. Actually due to this only Jesus was crucified.

The people could not even understand the concept of Human incarnation of God, and they crucified Jesus for the reason that He claimed Himself as God.

Human incarnation is a 2-in-1 system in which GOD and Son of God is mingled homogeneously.

Generally, incarnation of God is not interested in masses. Generally, people are in wrong route only. They want to exploit God for their personal solution. They do not come for learning the real spiritual knowledge and serve God without any aspiration. Nobody comes to God with this aim in mind. If the human incarnation encourages that wrong route, several people come to Him, then he must not be a human incarnation because God in human form is not fond of fame of masses. He is not fond of fame if God is really in that human body.

He has already enjoyed lot of fame. Will He be fond of masses and fame? No. He wants to guide the correct people in the correct path. For that purpose, He comes and not just to attract masses and get the fame etc. If such effort is done, surely he is not God. He is only a soul because the soul is always fond of fame. He has not tasted the fame already. However, God has tasted enough fame. Hence, any action of God will not be towards the fame. His action will be only to guide the people in the correct path. When His concentration is like that, generally masses will not be around Him. Rama and Krishna were not mass personalities. Similarly, Shankara. Shankara never drew masses. He only debated with scholars.


Therefore, it is not a question of mass attraction but it is the question of leading the people in the true path. When He concentrates in leading the people in the true path, generally, people will not like Him. So, there will not be masses around Him. There will not be fame. But, God is not perturbed because He has enough fame. In fact, He was bored with the fame. Therefore, His tendency will not be towards fame and attraction of masses. His tendency will always be only to give the correct guidance. In that case, generally, the real incarnation of God will not be after fame. That is why the incarnation of Datta means Guru Datta, Guru means preacher. Preacher always sticks to the truth. If He sticks to the truth, the people will be less. He does not bother because He is not fond of fame. He is not a politician, who draws or attracts the masses.

Thus the human incarnation who suits to you depends on your level. First you have to hear the divine knoweldge of Human incarnation and decide whether He is God or not from His divine knowledge itself by analysing it.

Human incarnation at the top most level preaches truth which is always harsh.

Datta is called as Unmatta Datta, which means that Datta is mad. The reason for this is that He gives the absolute divine knowledge from His absolute state, which is the absolute reality. In that state, every thing except Him is relatively real including the souls. In this state He is called as Nirguna Datta, which means that He is in the state of absolute reality without any relative reality.

 The entire creation including the souls is a relative reality only and is just His imagination or quality or feeling (Guna) only. The guna is a property, which is not independent and depends on its substratum (Guni) only. Such substratum is God or Para Brahman who is far from imagination.

The knowledge radiating from that state is absolute truth, which cannot be digested by human beings who are in the lowest layer called as Maya. Therefore, Datta looks like a mad fellow whose statements are beyond the normal digestion.

 Shri Rama Krishna Parama Hamsa was going to Panchavati for meditation and was in that top state. A newly married person told Him that his wife is hindering him from participating in the spiritual discussion (Satsanga). Immediately Parama Hamsa told him just to divorce his wife. He was shocked. For the plane of normal human beings such knowledge looks like the statements of a mad person. In fact, the souls are mad of the plane of lower relative reality. For mad people, a wise person is mad relatively.



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