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Author Topic: Blasphemous and Heretical Musings of a Self-Styled Deity Claiming Unity of Belief Between Christianity and Hinduism  (Read 102108 times) Average Rating: 0
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dattaswami
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« Reply #1395 on: December 28, 2010, 02:21:00 AM »

The identity mark to recognize the possessor of true spiritual knowledge

and the best preacher of such true spiritual knowledge is the true spiritual knowledge and its best explanation only

The identity mark to recognize the possessor of true spiritual knowledge


If you want to eat an apple, you have to search for the seller of apples in order to purchase an apple from him. Then, how to identify the seller of apples? The identity mark for recognizing the seller of apples is the apple itself. Therefore, your requirement itself is the identity mark to recognize the possessor of your requirement. If you want to learn Physics, you to have select the best teacher of the physics. What is the identity mark of the best teacher of physics? The identity mark is the best teaching of the physics itself. Similarly the requirement of an aspirant of spiritual path is the correct direction in his spiritual journey. The correct direction in the spiritual journey can be given by the true spiritual knowledge. Apart from the true spiritual knowledge, there should be best way of explanation of such true spiritual knowledge. Therefore, your requirement is the true spiritual knowledge and its best explanation, so that you can get the correct direction in your spiritual effort.

Now, the identity mark to recognize the possessor of true spiritual knowledge and the best preacher of such true spiritual knowledge is the true spiritual knowledge and its best explanation only. Veda says that the true spiritual knowledge (Satyam, Jnanam…) along with its best explanation (Prajnanam Brahma) is required for the correct spiritual direction. Veda says that the true spiritual knowledge itself is God.

It means that the possessor of true spiritual knowledge is God. It should not be confused that the knowledge itself is God. The possessor of your required important item is addressed as the item itself. You are calling the possessor of apple as apples. You call him “Oh Apples! Come here”. Here, the word ‘apples’ means the possessor of apples.Gita clarified this confusion by saying that the possessor of knowledge is God (Jnanitvatmaiva…).
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« Reply #1396 on: December 28, 2010, 02:21:25 AM »

How to judge the true knowledge?

Not only the knowledge must be true, but also the way of explanation must be best


Veda says that the true spiritual knowledge itself is God. The possessor of true spiritual knowledge and the best preacher of such true spiritual knowledge is the true spiritual knowledge and its best explanation only. You need not search the possessor of knowledge by going to various places. The knowledge given by a preacher is printed in the form of books. You can read various books, which are the messages given by various preachers. You can judge the true knowledge explained in best way. How to judge the true knowledge? It is said that your inner consciousness is the best judge (Pramanamantahkaranapravruttayah). When something is true, your inner consciousness will always prick you, saying that it is truth, even though you may not like it. Similarly your inner consciousness will say the false thing as false, even though you may like it. Actually God is giving this hint to you through your inner consciousness.

 Sometimes, the knowledge may be true, but, if the explanation is not good, you will be having confusion. Even in such situation, your inner consciousness hints you that it is true. Ofcourse, if the true knowledge is explained in best way, you will not have any confusion. Therefore, not only the knowledge must be true, but also the way of explanation must be best. When both these aspects are accomplished, know that the preacher of such true knowledge explained in best way is God alone.

Such preacher is called as Satguru. Guru is the preacher and may give the true knowledge, which was already given by God through the scripture. But the best explanation of it, clarifying all your doubts is possible to God alone (chidyante sarvasamsayah).
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« Reply #1397 on: December 28, 2010, 02:21:46 AM »

The primary purpose of God coming in human form
The contemporary human incarnation of God can inspire you to implement the true knowledge in practice.

The primary purpose of God coming in human form is only to give you the correct direction in your spiritual effort through the best explanation of the true knowledge, which clarifies all your doubts and inspires you to practically adopt the knowledge. The true knowledge explained in best way is like huge fire (Jnanagnih…Gita). Such true knowledge explained in best way is the huge power to bring implementation of theory into practice. If there is any hindrance in your implementation of theory in practice, it is only the imperfect clarification of the true concept. Therefore, the contemporary human incarnation of God can inspire you to implement the true knowledge in practice.

Inspired by the teaching of Lord Krishna, Arjuna fought the war and even killed his grandfather and teacher. Mandanamishra left the family and became a saint following Shankara, just after hearing the best explanation of true knowledge from Shankara during the debate that went on for several days continuously. Therefore nothing is as powerful as the best explained true knowledge (Sarvam Gnanaplavenaiva...Gita).
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« Reply #1398 on: December 28, 2010, 02:25:20 AM »

Un-necessary expenditure of wealth result in sin

Your expenditure will never yield zero and it either yields good fruit or sin

Your expenditure should be based on sharp analysis since your expenditure may result in the pleasure of God as well as in the anger of God.
Un-necessary expenditure of wealth result in sin

You should donate after analyzing through proper knowledge


Earning the wealth is a great act. Saving the earned wealth by controlling unnecessary expenditure is greater act. Proper utilization of the saved wealth is greatest act. You can get the grace of God through proper utilization of the saved wealth in His name. When you spend your money in the name of God, God is pleased. But, you should spend it properly with sharp analysis. If the wealth is wasted or spent for un-deserving persons, God becomes furious. Therefore, expenditure or donation of money can bring the grace or anger of God and it is like a double edged knife.

Therefore, controlling the expenditure in un-necessary ways and also resisting the expenditure on un-deserving persons results in pacifying the anger of God. The un-necessary expenditure and expenditure on un-deserving persons result in sin and you will be punished in the hell. Therefore, your expenditure should be based on sharp analysis since your expenditure may result in the pleasure of God as well as in the anger of God. Veda says the same [Samvidaa deyam], which means that you should donate after analyzing through proper knowledge. You think that wasting money yields neither sin nor good fruit and the result is only zero. This is totally wrong. Your expenditure will never yield zero and it either yields good fruit or sin. Hence, you should be very careful in the expenditure or donation.

 A farmer gave milk to a serpent, which is shivering in snow. After gaining sufficient heat from the nearby fire created by the farmer and after gaining sufficient energy through the milk, the serpent bit the farmer and went away. The serpent killed some more people outside also due to the gained energy. For that act, the farmer was punished in the hell also. The farmer was not only punished on the earth, but was also punished in the upper world after death. Such is the severe result of donation to un-deserving people.
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« Reply #1399 on: December 28, 2010, 02:25:49 AM »

Donation of food is said to be greatest

The human race is the blessed category of the creation since the human being alone has the faculty of devotion to God. You must save the life of every human being if it is in need. Even if the human being is an atheist, you must save the life since the atheist has a chance of becoming a devotee in future. Therefore, donation of food is said to be greatest since it is the basis of life. But, you should donate it to the deserving people only. 'Deserving' means any human being suffering for food. The human being must work and earn the food without begging as far as possible. Otherwise, people become lazy without doing work.

Hence, while donating the food to a person capable of doing work, you should analyze the background carefully. Generally, poor children, poor old persons, poor disabled and poor patients can be accepted as deserving receivers of your donated food. A rich person should be always avoided as far as possible leaving rare emergent occasions. Do not have any analysis in the occasions of emergency demanding immediate service. Such donation is called as 'Apat-dharma'.
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« Reply #1400 on: December 28, 2010, 02:26:20 AM »

Who is the really deserving person to receive donation?
You should approach God and not the other human beings for your needs


Who is the really deserving person? Veda says that the person not expecting anything from anybody is the most deserving receiver of your donation [Akaamahatasya]. The deserving person must have full faith in God and should believe that God will give him all the required needs of the life. He should work and earn and if something is needed beyond the scope of the work, God is going to help him in the correct moment. He need not beg other human beings, who are beggars themselves, praying God to fulfill their desires. A beggar should not beg another beggar and should go to the house, which donated food to the other beggar. Similarly, you should approach God and not the other human beings for your needs, which are not covered by your work. In fact, a true devotee should not beg even God because God is omniscient and will act at the right time. Therefore, if one is expecting something from you, he is not a deserving person since his faith in God is not complete.
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« Reply #1401 on: December 28, 2010, 02:26:41 AM »

A true deserving person do not expect anything…

 If you take the example of Kuchela [Sudama], he never begged any person and did not beg even God. He was forced by his wife to beg Lord Krishna. He went to Lord Krishna but did not ask anything since he knows that Lord is omniscient. He stayed in the house of Krishna for a few days and returned back to his home. Krishna did not give a single rupee even though He observed the extreme condition of poverty of Kuchela. If you are in the place of Kuchela, you will certainly scold Krishna at least in your mind during your return journey. Kuchela did not entertain even a trace of such idea in his mind at any time.

The omniscient Lord Krishna was constantly observing the mind of Kuchela during his return journey. The Lord was extremely pleased since no such idea could enter the mind of Kuchela. Therefore, the Lord gave immense wealth to Kuchela. The only donation done by Krishna in His entire life was this only. The Lord was waiting for such a deserving person. You compare yourself with Krishna. You do donations in hasty way without patience to catch a deserving receiver. You go to Varanasi  on the day of Maha Shivaratri and you are in hurry to return back by next day. You think that your donation in a particular place at a particular time only becomes fruitful. You are captured by such false illusion and donate to an un-deserving person in that place on that day.

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« Reply #1402 on: December 28, 2010, 02:27:56 AM »

Practice is equally important

The extent of the determination to sacrifice wealth for the sake of God is one important angle. Another important angle is the recognition of human form of God, who enjoys your sacrifice. The people, who are not matured in either of these two angles, neither like the sacrifice nor like the recognition of human incarnation. They become very intelligent and like to have the fruit of sacrifice of both the angles through their clever interpretation. They treat the statue or photo as God. They sacrifice the food to God represented by photo or statue and eat it. They claim to achieve the fruit of the devotee sacrificing the food to human incarnation. Statues and photos are the results of the clever interpretations of such selfish people only.

 If such angle is not present in the mind, the offer of food to the statues and photos is not at all wrong because such sacrifice develops at least the theoretical devotion in the beginners. Theory is the mother of practice. Without theory, there is no birth of practice. But, the theory without practice is a waste in the long run and does not yield even a trace of the fruit at anytime.

The knowledge and devotion are the two parts of the theory. You may have lot of information about Delhi and its path and you many have a lot of inspiration also to go to Delhi. Both these are knowledge and devotion respectively. Without putting even a little effort like going to the railway station to purchase the ticket, there is no use of the knowledge and the devotion. Theory is very important because it is the generator of the practice. But, practice is equally important since there will be no generation of even a trace of fruit without practice. Therefore, the theory involving jnana yoga (knowledge) and bhakti yoga (devotion) along with karma yoga (practice) are equally needed for achieving the grace of God.
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« Reply #1403 on: December 28, 2010, 02:28:28 AM »


Difference between a humanbeing and human incarnation of God
God remains always un-imaginable as said by Gita


 In the human incarnation of God, three items exist viz.

1-the external human body,
 2-the inner soul and
3-the inner most God.

In every human being, the human body and soul exist without God. The distinction between these three items is very important in the beginning (yasmat ksharamatitoham… Gita). These three items exist in the human incarnation as per Veda also (dvaasuparnaa…). Since God is un-imaginable, the human incarnation also appears like a human being having the visible human body and the invisible but imaginable soul. Geeta says that the soul is invisible but imaginable to analytical knowledge (pashyanti jnana chakshushah). Veda also says that the soul is imaginable to the sharp analytical intelligence (drushyatetvagrayaa…). Since God is not touched by even the sharpest analysis, nobody can recognize God in the human incarnation through direct proof.

You can infer the existence of God through your experience of the wonderful true spiritual knowledge emitted by the human incarnation (satyam jnanam.., prajnanam... Veda). Here also you have inferred only the existence of un-imaginable God and you have not experienced any inherent characteristic of God. Therefore God remains always un-imaginable as said by Gita (mamtuvedana…). Apart from this normal confusion created by the human medium including both body and soul, God creates extra confusion by stealing butter etc. so that even if you cross the first level of confusion, you will be certainly trapped by the second level of confusion (mamamaya duratyayaa… Gita).
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« Reply #1404 on: December 28, 2010, 02:28:49 AM »

People mistake God in human form as ordinary being

 When God comes in the human form, that itself starts illusion in your mind. You will mistake the Lord as an ordinary co-human being since you are affected by the common properties of the external human medium. The birth, growth, illness, thirst, hunger, other qualities like worldly desires and final death confuse you to recognize the Lord. You must separate the inner permanent soul from the external human body since all the above mentioned properties do not touch the soul. Therefore, the Lord started Gita with such separation in the second chapter, which is the beginning of Gita. If you are able to separate the soul and body, you will be easily separating the super soul or God from the body in the human incarnation. At the same time, you should separate the soul and God also so that you will not mistake the soul existing in every human body as God.
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« Reply #1405 on: December 28, 2010, 02:29:13 AM »

Determination to sacrifice wealth for the sake of God

The extent of the determination to sacrifice wealth for the sake of God is one important angle. Another important angle is the recognition of human form of God, who enjoys your sacrifice. Devotees, who are matured in both these angles are very very rare. You may be well versed in the first angle, but you will fail in the second angle. The sages in the forest were in the climax of the first angle. Sharabhanga, a sage, sacrificed his life for the sake of God, but could not recognize Rama (then human incarnation) as the human incarnation of God. Instead of sacrificing his body in the fire alter, he should have sacrificed his life in participating the war between Rama and Ravana.

Similarly, people recognize the human form of God, but are unable to sacrifice anything for the sake of God. Dhrutarashtra recognized Krishna as God, but could not donate even five villages begged by the Lord for the sake of Pandavas. The failure in the second angle is mainly due to repulsion with the common co-human form. The ego and jealousy are the two layers that cover the two eyes of any devotee in recognizing the co-human form of the Lord. Unless you reach the climax of both these angles, you cannot succeed in your spiritual field (nivrutti).
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« Reply #1406 on: December 28, 2010, 02:29:33 AM »

The sacrifice of wealth alone leads to God
God cannot be effected by the properties of medium


The stealing of butter by Lord Krishna as a boy is enjoyed by the devotees as the mischief of the Lord (Prabhu leela). By this, the Lord is treated as an ordinary ignorant boy and the mischief is reduced to the activity of ignorance of the childhood. God is never ignorant and the childhood is related to the body or medium in which the Lord is hidden. An ordinary soul in such a medium can be ignorant but not the omniscient God. God cannot be effected by the properties of medium. Therefore, there should be an excellent meaning and it should be a wonderful message for the spiritual aspirants. Externally, it looks like a mischief of an ignorant boy, but internally, it has the whole essence of the holy scripture Veda, which says that the sacrifice of wealth alone leads to God.
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« Reply #1407 on: December 28, 2010, 03:48:33 AM »

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« Reply #1408 on: December 28, 2010, 04:01:53 AM »

Does it do automatic buttonholes?
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« Reply #1409 on: December 28, 2010, 12:51:31 PM »

Does it do automatic buttonholes?

It looks too small....
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« Reply #1410 on: December 28, 2010, 02:32:17 PM »

Buddha kept silent about God. This means that God is beyond words, mind and logic as said in the Veda.

But God didn't keep his silence at the Baptism of Jesus; yet, you waste bandwidth telling us that one can find God in "silence."  The same God who threw down thunder and lightning for 3 days at Mt. Sinai and guaranteed death to anyone who came close to the holy Mountain.  Exodus 19:10-23 (NKJV)

Quote
10 Then the LORD said to Moses, “Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their clothes. 11  And let them be ready for the third day. For on the third day the LORD will come down upon Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people. 12 You shall set bounds for the people all around, saying, ‘Take heed to yourselves that you do not go up to the mountain or touch its base. Whoever touches the mountain shall surely be put to death. 13 Not a hand shall touch him, but he shall surely be stoned or shot with an arrow; whether man or beast, he shall not live.’ When the trumpet sounds long, they shall come near the mountain.”
14 So Moses went down from the mountain to the people and sanctified the people, and they washed their clothes. 15 And he said to the people, “Be ready for the third day; do not come near your wives.”
16 Then it came to pass on the third day, in the morning, that there were thunderings and lightnings, and a thick cloud on the mountain; and the sound of the trumpet was very loud, so that all the people who were in the camp trembled. 17 And Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain. 18 Now Mount Sinai was completely in smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire. Its smoke ascended like the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mountain[a] quaked greatly. 19 And when the blast of the trumpet sounded long and became louder and louder, Moses spoke, and God answered him by voice. 20 Then the LORD came down upon Mount Sinai, on the top of the mountain. And the LORD called Moses to the top of the mountain, and Moses went up.
21 And the LORD said to Moses, “Go down and warn the people, lest they break through to gaze at the LORD, and many of them perish. 22 Also let the priests who come near the LORD consecrate themselves, lest the LORD break out against them.”
23 But Moses said to the LORD, “The people cannot come up to Mount Sinai; for You warned us, saying, ‘Set bounds around the mountain and consecrate it.’”

Buddha never did such a thing....
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« Reply #1411 on: December 28, 2010, 02:45:31 PM »

Buddha kept silent about God. This means that God is beyond words, mind and logic as said in the Veda.

But God didn't keep his silence at the Baptism of Jesus; yet, you waste bandwidth telling us that one can find God in "silence."  
Dattaswami may be incorrect in many of his assertions, but give credit where it is due:

"Silence is a great power in our unseen warfare and a sure hope of gaining victory. Silence is much beloved of him, who does not rely on himself but trusts in God alone. It is the guardian of holy prayer and a miraculous helper in the practice of virtues; it is also a sign of spiritual wisdom. St. Isaac says: 'guarding your tongue [and ears] not only makes your mind rise to God, but also gives great hidden power to perform visible actions, done by the body. If silence is practised with knowledge, it also brings enlightenment in hidden doing' (ch. 31 in Russian edition). In another place he praises it thus: 'If you pile up on one side of the scales all the works demanded by ascetic life, and on the other side -- silence, you will find that the latter outweighs the former. Many good counsels have been given us, but if a man embraces silence, to follow them will become superfluous' (ch. 41). In yet another place he calls silence 'the mystery of the life to come; whereas words are the instruments of this world' (ch. 42). St. Barsanuphius places it above preaching the word of God, saying: 'If you are just on the very point of preaching, know that silence is more worthy of wonder and glory.' Thus, although one man 'holdeth his tongue because he hath not to answer', another 'keepeth silence, knowing his time' (Ecclesiasticus xx.6), yet another for some other reasons, 'for the sake of human glory, or out of zeal for this virtue of silence, or because he secretly communes with God in his heart and does not want the attention of this mind to be distracted from it' (St. Isaac, ch. 76). It can be said in general that a man, who keepeth silence, is found wise and of good sense (Ecclesiasticus xx.5).

I shall indicate to you the most direct and simple method to acquire the habit of silence: undertake this practice, and the practice itself will teach you how to do it, and help you. To keep up your zeal in this work, reflect as often as you can on the pernicious results of indiscriminate babbling [and listening] and on the salutary results of wise silence. When you come to taste the good fruit of silence, you will no longer need lessons about it."

-- Lorenzo Scupoli, Unseen Warfare. Edited by Nicodemus of the Holy Mountain and revised by Theophan the Recluse. Translated by E. Kadloubovsky and G. E. H. Palmer. Crestwood, New York: St. Vladimir's Seminary Press, 1987. Chapter 25, 146-147.
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« Reply #1412 on: December 28, 2010, 03:00:26 PM »

^ Dattaswami, Maitreya and others attempt to confuse people by convincing them that "their interpretation of God" can be found through silence.

The silence referenced in "Unseen Warfare" stems from asceticism / monasticism.

The silence referenced by dattaswami is intended to deceive.
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« Reply #1413 on: December 28, 2010, 05:04:09 PM »

Buddha never did such a thing....
And I doubt he did buttonholes, either.
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« Reply #1414 on: December 29, 2010, 12:54:10 AM »

Buddha never did such a thing....
And I doubt he did buttonholes, either.

But Buddha has apparently mastered cloning since he can appear as God in so many human forms - cloning was a technology that didn't exist among the Indo-Aryan folk who "invented" Buddha ... hmmm, what changed other than the Portuguese bringing the Enlightenment and Renaissance to India ... Eureka, that's it...   Grin
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« Reply #1415 on: December 29, 2010, 01:12:30 AM »

^ Dattaswami, Maitreya and others attempt to confuse people by convincing them that "their interpretation of God" can be found through silence.

The silence referenced in "Unseen Warfare" stems from asceticism / monasticism.

The silence referenced by dattaswami is intended to deceive.

No word can indicate God

Several statements of Veda clearly speak that God is completely unimaginable under any circumstances. Silence can only indicate God. Silence means that no word can be used to indicate God. In the creation every imaginable item has the specific name, which cannot be used for any other imaginable item. For example the word pot means only a particular object.

The word cloth means another particular object. You cannot use one word for any other object. But God can enter any item of the creation. Therefore, the name of every item can be used to indicate God because there is no specific word for God, who is not at all a specific object. Even if God does not enter an item, the name of that item can be used to indicate God, because you are keeping that item as the representative of God. For example God never enters the inert planet like sun. But still Sun can represent God due to some similarities. God removes ignorance. Sun removes darkness. The lotus buds are opened by sun. The ignorant intelligence is also enlightened by God. Therefore, sun can represent God to some extent. Therefore, the word “sun” can also represent God.

Thus, in one extreme end no word can indicate God (Yato vachah-Veda). At another extreme end, the name of any item into which either God can enter or any item, which can represent God, can indicate God. All the prayers of God by thousand names (Shasra Nama) indicate God. When a word indicates God, it is the name of medium into which either God entered or which stands as representative God. This means you can experience God through a specific medium when God enters it.

Alternatively you can also imagine the experience of existence of God through a representative item like sun. You can experience the existence of God through Lord Krishna because God entered and exists in the human body of Krishna. In case of sun you can imagine the existence of God through the properties of the sun. Thus, there is difference between the worship of human incarnation and worship of the representative item like sun, statue etc.

Veda says that you can worship sun as God, which means that sun is not directly God (Adityam Brahmaiti…Veda). There is difference between the direct worship of king and indirect worship of his photo. In both cases the king is pleased. But in the direct worship the king is extremely pleased because every bit of your service is experienced by king directly. When God enters the human body, God has not become the human body. God is in the human body. Therefore, the human body is not God.

You can only experience God through human body. Therefore, by seeing the human body you have not seen God, but you have only experienced God through that human body. Therefore, God is invisible. Of course, a devotee can be satisfied by treating the human body as God and can feel satisfied that he has seen God. From this angle Veda says, “A blessed fellow has seen God” (Kaschit Dhirah…..).

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« Reply #1416 on: December 29, 2010, 01:22:31 AM »

The only information that we can give about the Absolute God is that He is un-imaginable
 For example, when Krishna lifted the huge mountain, the entire body of Krishna is withstanding the huge load of the hill and hence we infer that the entire body of Krishna is pervaded by the un-imaginable God (Antarbahishcha... Veda). Here again, the all over pervasion has no direct proof as in the case of air entering the room and pervading all over the room. Both the air and the room are imaginable items and we cannot apply this process to the all over pervasion of un-imaginable God in the imaginable body of Krishna.

 Hence, we are only inferring the actions of un-imaginable God and these actions are also un-imaginable and cannot be compared to the imaginable processes taking place in the case of imaginable items. We only say that God entered or God pervaded etc. and these processes cannot be compared to the imaginable processes taking place in the imaginable items. The only information that we can give about the Absolute God is that He is un-imaginable. The only experience of the Absolute God is the inferred experience of existence of the un-imaginable nature. Such experience stands as the proof for the un-imaginable nature of God.
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« Reply #1417 on: December 29, 2010, 01:23:11 AM »

The entry of God into a medium

Infering the un-imaginable God through imagianble medium

Veda says that the existence of un-imaginable God is experienced


All the words give the meanings of the processes taking place in the imaginable items of the imaginable creation. When we say that God entered a medium, the entry denotes the process of entry of an imaginable item into another imaginable item. Thus, when we say that the current entered the wire, it means the imaginable stream of electrons entered the visible chain of metallic crystals. The stream of electrons may be invisible to the naked eye but is visible through powerful microscope. The imaginable item may be visible or invisible.

The invisible may become visible through powerful instruments or at least to the powerful analytical logic. But, the un-imaginable is always invisible even to the most powerful analytical faculty. When we give this example as simile to the entry of God into a medium, the process of entry is not exactly valid because it is the entry of un-imaginable item (God) into imaginable entity. Since there is no second un-imaginable item, we cannot give the exact simile to the entry of un-imaginable God.

Since the existence of the un-imaginable God is inferred through the un-imaginable events, we are inferring the entry of God into that medium. By the experience of the un-imaginable event, un-imaginable has not become imaginable. Only the existence of un-imaginable nature is experienced. If the existence is also not experienced, we have no authority to say that un-imaginable God exists. Therefore, Veda says that the existence of un-imaginable God is experienced, which is very essential and required as a proof for the existence of un-imaginable God (Asteetyeva…). Similarly, since we are experiencing the un-imaginable nature throughout the medium, we are assuming the probable pervasion of un-imaginable God all over the medium.

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« Reply #1418 on: December 29, 2010, 01:23:40 AM »

God attains the imaginable form of meduim into which He enters


When the un-imaginable God enters a medium, He remains in His inherent un-imaginable form and at the same time attains the form of the medium also. But, the attainment of the form of the medium is by identifying Himself with that medium. The attainment is not real because God is not really transformed into that form of medium. When the current enters a metallic wire, the current is identified with the metallic wire because you can experience the property of the current at any part of the wire. This does not mean that the current is really modified or transformed into the metallic wire. The current is a stream of electrons and it remains in its inherent form, which is the stream of electrons. The metallic wire is a chain of crystals. The electrons are not transformed into crystals. But, the crystals are treated as electrons since the electrons are identified with the crystals.

Hence, the current has two forms: (1) its inherent form of stream of electrons and (2) its identified form of chain of metallic crystals. The current remains always in its inherent form. Since we can treat the metallic wire as current for all practical purposes, the current has apparently attained the form of metallic crystals. The identified form is only assumed reality and the inherent form is the actual reality.

Veda says that the un-imaginable God remaining in His inherent form attains the identified form of the medium also (Satcha tyatcha abhavat). The inherent form of the Absolute God is the un-imaginable nature. The identified form of the medium is the inherent form of the medium only and not the inherent form of God. Gita says that the un-imaginable God is not transformed into imaginable God at any cost (avyaktam vyaktimaapannam...).The un-imaginable God apparently attains the assumed form of the medium, which is the inherent form of the medium only. Since the medium is imaginable, the un-imaginable God becomes imaginable through the attained identified form of the imaginable medium.
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« Reply #1419 on: December 29, 2010, 01:26:54 AM »

Even angels and sages cannot speak a single word about the nature of God

Science is very useful in rejecting any non-God item projected as God by the people who are ignorant of science. For that matter, not only science, even angels and sages cannot speak a single word about the nature of God. It is beyond words and can be best explained through silence only. Lord Dakshinamurthy who is considered to be the best incarnation of Shiva in preaching the spiritual knowledge to even angels and sages explains God through silence only (Maunavyakhya prakatita para brahma tattvam). Shankara used here the word Parabrahman and not the word Brahman. Any greatest item in a category can be called as Brahman. Parabrahman is a negative word indicating that God is not Brahman or God is beyond Brahman. Every word is denied in indicating God (Neti neti, Yato vachah.. Veda). The silence of Buddha is also the same. Buddha is also the best incarnation of Lord Vishnu to preach the spiritual knowledge. Science also keeps silent about God.

In the above prayer of Dakshinamurthy, even Shankara told that God cannot be explained by any word. How can you say that Shankara means the awareness or an individual soul is God? If the individual soul is unimaginable, then, you can say that the individual soul is God. You are the individual soul, which knows itself and items other than itself. Awareness cannot be ignorant of itself and other things also simultaneously.

In meditation awareness is ignorant of other things but it is aware of itself. In deep sleep it is neither aware of itself nor aware of other items because it remains as inert energy since the inert energy is not transformed into awareness due to resting nervous system. If you say such inert energy in deep sleep is God, then your argument that awareness is God is contradicted by yourself. You must note one important point here, which is that Shankara used the word Brahman for the individual soul and not the word Parabrahman.

Since Brahman means any greatest item in a category, several items can be called as Brahman. Veda, food, life, mind, intelligence, knowledge, bliss, etc were called as Brahman in several places (Brahmaksharasamudbhavam, Annam Brahma, Prano Brahma, Mano Brahma, Vijnanam Brahma, Jnanamantam Brahma, Anando Brahma, etc). All these statements mean that these items are greatest among their own categories. Similarly, the individual soul is greatest among all the items of the creation due to its specific property of knowledge (Jnanitvatmaiva… Gita).
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« Reply #1420 on: December 29, 2010, 01:27:57 AM »

Existence of God is not like the existence of worldly items

(The existence of Para Brahman (God) is not the existence of non-God items in which the knowledge of the non-God items is a prerequisite condition. Para Brahman exists as per the statement of Veda).

   All the non-God items are worldly objects, which are parts of creation. All these items are known first and then only their existence is mentioned. When you say that a pot exists, it means that you are stating the existence since you know the pot already.

 Hence, the existence of any worldly item requires the knowledge of that item already.  If you do not know anything about an item, you will not say that it exists.  Hence, the existence always requires the prior knowledge of the item.  

But God is beyond world and is unimaginable since God is not known.  Hence, the existence of God is not similar to the existence of the worldly items.  Since the existence of worldly items, which requires prior knowledge of the item, is absent in the case of God, God can be said as an item not having the existence of worldly items and hence God is non-existent (Asat) in this sense.  This does not mean that God is really non-existent because God really exists as per Veda (Astityeva….) and hence God exists (Sat).  
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« Reply #1421 on: December 29, 2010, 01:28:52 AM »

   God is known to God

(God is known to God and hence the prerequisite condition is fulfilled.  For human beings, the unimaginable God can exist like the unimaginable miracle).

   Veda says that the knower of God is God Himself (Brahmavit Brahmaiva…). Hence, though God is unknown to human beings, He is known to Himself. If you say that the existence of anything must satisfy the prior condition of its knowledge, the rule is not violated since God is having His knowledge.

  Then, you may say that God exists for God only since the prior condition is limited to God only. This is not correct because you are agreeing the existence of an unimaginable miracle also in the world.  When the miracle is demonstrated, it is unimaginable but its existence in the world is accepted.  Hence, the existence of unimaginable item like miracle exists in the case of human beings.


(The concept of unimaginable nature requires the relative existence of the concept of imaginable nature).

   To recognize day, night should relatively exist. Similarly, to recognize the existence of unimaginable nature, relatively the imaginable nature must exist.  If everything is unimaginable there is no significance of the very concept of unimaginable nature. Therefore, the world with imaginable items exists, so that the unimaginable nature of God can be recognized significantly through relativity.
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« Reply #1422 on: December 29, 2010, 01:29:30 AM »

God is known as unknown

(God is known as unknown.  This is said in Veda and in Gita also)


   Veda says that angels and sages came to know only one point about the God after long hectic discussions.  That single point is that God is unknown (Yasyaamatam Tasyamatam…).  Even Gita says that no body knows anything about God (Mamtu veda Nakaschana.).  Therefore, the unimaginable nature of God is clearly established by the sacred scriptures.
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« Reply #1423 on: December 29, 2010, 01:30:35 AM »

Veda says that God is known and seen

(Veda says that God is known and seen.  This does not contradict the above said unimaginable nature of God.  These statements only refer to the medium in to which God entered.)

   Veda says that God is not seen by eyes.  But the same Veda says else where that a fortunate devotee sees God (Kaschit Dhirah..).  Similarly, Veda says that God alone knows God.  But the same Veda says that a devotee knows God (Vedaahametam….).  This seems to be a contradiction in Veda.  But there is no contradiction, because God enters a medium for the sake of devotees.  Then the medium is charged by God and the verbs like known, seen etc., apply to the charged medium and not to the original God. 
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« Reply #1424 on: December 29, 2010, 01:31:14 AM »

   A simile to the mediated God

(An electric wire is seen but not the electricity.  This is a simile to the mediated God. )

   When the electricity charges the metallic wire, the wire is treated as the electricity.  The electric wire is seen but you can say that the electricity is seen.  The electricity is seen through the wire indirectly though not directly.  The electricity pervades all over the wire and when the wire is touched anywhere, the electricity is experienced through the touch of the wire.  Therefore, the verbs like seen, touched etc., apply to the wire and not to the electricity.  But, indirectly the electricity is experienced through the shock.  Similarly God is experienced through the medium, since the medium can be treated as God like the live wire.
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« Reply #1425 on: December 29, 2010, 01:31:55 AM »

God enters a living body(Son of God)

(Veda says that two birds are on a single tree.  This means that God enters a living body and is in association with the soul.)

   Veda says that God and soul exist together in a living body (Dvaasuparnaa…).  Therefore, the medium of God is always a living body and not any inert item in the world. The bird represents a living item. God is beyond living and inert items.  God can exhibit any property of any item because the items and properties of the world are generated from God only.  Hence, God exhibits the properties of life also, though He is beyond life.  Hence, God and soul are treated as two living items or two living birds.
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« Reply #1426 on: December 29, 2010, 01:37:12 AM »

Buddha never did such a thing....
And I doubt he did buttonholes, either.

But Buddha has apparently mastered cloning since he can appear as God in so many human forms - cloning was a technology that didn't exist among the Indo-Aryan folk who "invented" Buddha ... hmmm, what changed other than the Portuguese bringing the Enlightenment and Renaissance to India ... Eureka, that's it...   Grin

Recently some devotees were asking Me about the latest scientific development called cloning. They are telling Me that the offspring is produced from the tissue of hair and the offspring gets the same characteristics, by which there is a point that whether the soul is regenerated. The point is whether the soul from the parent is divided so that the first part remains in the parent and second part enters the offspring. When Lord Siva became furious, He plucked one of His hair and threw it on the floor. From that hair, Veerabhadra is produced, who got all the anger from the Lord Siva. The same point arises here.
 
First of all we should analyse the soul. The soul is made of pure awareness. The vibrations of pure awareness are called as feelings or qualities. Therefore all the characteristic qualities are associated with the soul and are made of pure awareness.

 What is pure awareness? It is only a special form of inert energy. When we eat the food, it is oxidised by the oxygen received through the respiratory system. When the food is assimilated in the digestive system, it is oxidised by the Oxygen from the respiratory system, which is carried by the blood in dissolved state through Haemoglobin. The oxidation of food is exothermic reaction and liberates inert heat energy. This inert heat energy is converted into a special form of energy called awareness by the nervous system.

The electricity is produced by the generator and enters the tube light. The electrical energy is converted into light, which is another new form of energy. The heat energy produced by the interaction of digestive and respiratory system is called life energy (Pranamaya kosa). When this heat energy is converted into awareness by nervous system the awareness or mind is produced (Manomaya kosa). This awareness which is in the purest state is called as the soul (or Atman). This awareness is propagated in the form of pulses and these pulses as a bundle is called as Jeeva. The bundle of pulses of awareness is called as simply Jeeva from the point of pulses, is called as Atman from the point of awareness and is also called as Jeevatman from the point of both the pulses and awareness.

The constant propagation of pulses is called as mind (manas). The impressions of strong pulses are called as Chittam. The production of strong of pulses by the interaction of several weak pulses is called as intelligence or determination or Buddhi. The strong pulse that keeps the identity of the body is called as Ahamkara or ego. When you say the word Jeeva, it refers only to Manas, Chittam, Buddhi and Ahamkara (Antahkaranams). Therefore the soul and Jeeva together called as Jeevatma is only a special form of energy i.e., generated by the interaction of digestive, respiratory and nervous systems. Thus Jeeva representing the bundle of characteristics and Atman representing the special form of energy or Soul can be only the items of creation and not the creator. You are worried about the generation of Soul but there need not be any worry because Soul is an item of creation. In this creation there is conversion of matter into energy.

 There is conversion of one type of matter into another type of matter through a chemical reaction as done by chemists. There is also conversion of one form of energy into another form of energy as done by physicists. There is conversion of matter into energy as done by technologists and engineers. Now if the Soul is generated, what is there to worry? This topic comes under the realm of creation and is within the boundaries of the creation. Gita says that the Soul is Paraprakruti. Prakruti means creation. Para means the finest part of creation. Therefore the transformation of Soul or division of Soul or generation of Soul is only topic of science and is not a topic of spirituality. Spirituality deals with creator who is beyond the creation. Veda says ‘Annat Purushah’, which means that the Soul is produced from the food. It is conversion of matter into Soul, which is energy.

When Ahalya is converted into stone the Soul of Ahalya did not go to any upper world in which case, it would have been death of Ahalya. The Soul of Ahalya existed in that stone. This is conversion of energy into matter, because Soul is energy. Again when the stone is converted into Ahalya the matter is converted into the Soul i.e., energy. Lord Krishna created His friends and the cows in duplicate when they are stolen and hidden by Prajapati in the upper world. The same body and the same Soul is existing in two places. This answers the issue raised by the cloning. A duplicate Soul with the same characteristics can be created even with a similar body. The friends of Krishna created with the same qualities behaved as the original beings.
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« Reply #1427 on: December 29, 2010, 01:42:56 AM »

A total waste of bandwidth.
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« Reply #1428 on: December 29, 2010, 02:04:15 AM »

A total waste of bandwidth.

   Some people are not interested in spiritual knowledge! What to do?

Spiritual knowledge is meant for the people who aspire for God, who want God’s grace, who have recognized God and find more value than the world and we talk for those people only. We do not talk about the people who have satisfied with the world. Let them be satisfied. For example, somebody is studying and he says that just pass mark is sufficient for me and let me enjoy. What we can do, if that is his attitude? If somebody says I will undergo all problems and I want to get first class, I want to get distinction. He will undergo lot of troubles and will get the result.

Enjoyment of world is there and if that is your aim, nothing can be done. Those, who recognized God, the value of God, eternality of God and eternal fruit of the God, they will only be interested to know, what is the way to please the God, how to get the grace of God and only when such questions have started, we have started to preach the spiritual knowledge to them.

The fundamental and the basic stage in the spiritual knowledge is that people have recognized God and have given high value to God and want to know where is the God, what is the path, how to please the Him, how to get liberation from the world etc. We show the path only when such enquiries are made. Suppose you are satisfied with the world and experience of world itself is highest for you, the complete spiritual knowledge will not open at all! Suppose, you want to become a district collector and ask Me what is the way, then I will tell that you have to study IAS course (a course for obtaining a prestigious administrative post in India). You have to study many hours, many books etc.

If you have such aim, we will tell you the path. If you say that I am not bothered about IAS and say that if I become a peon or an attender or a coolie, it is beautiful and wonderful for me and I enjoy the life, then there is no question of IAS post for the people of such attitude. The gate of the spiritual knowledge is closed for such people, who feel that world is wonderful, who feel that the worldly experience is wonderful etc. Certainly, for such people, the gate is closed. We started the preaching of spiritual knowledge for such people only, who think that these worldly pleasures are not eternal, they are momentary, they are illusory etc.

 Such spiritual knowledge will become irrelevant to other disinterested people. The gate of spiritual knowledge is open only when we want God, liberation from the world, the path to please God etc. If one says that I do not want God and I am satisfied with the world, the gate of spiritual knowledge itself is closed. Therefore, there is no question of discussing about him. You want to reach a goal and you ask the path then only discussions start. You do not want the goal, you feel that wherever you stay is the highest for you and you are getting highest enjoyment etc., then the gate is closed. The spiritual knowledge becomes irrelevant for such people.
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« Reply #1429 on: December 29, 2010, 03:05:52 AM »

Some people are not interested in spiritual knowledge! What to do?
What else can you do?  I'd start a new thread.
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« Reply #1430 on: December 29, 2010, 03:36:45 AM »

A total waste of bandwidth.

   Some people are not interested in spiritual knowledge! What to do?

Watch American Football?

Take up crochet?

Learn Origami and teach it to young children?

Count sheep or count cars?
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« Reply #1431 on: December 29, 2010, 06:38:15 AM »

Dude!  It's college bowl season, and you recommend watching PRO FOOTBALL!?  Is OUTRAGE!!
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« Reply #1432 on: December 29, 2010, 07:15:13 AM »

Dude!  It's college bowl season, and you recommend watching PRO FOOTBALL!?  Is OUTRAGE!!

Just to be sure: By 'football' you mean a kind of sport while one carries a coconut under his armpit and slams others?
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« Reply #1433 on: December 29, 2010, 09:59:16 AM »

Just to be sure: By 'football' you mean a kind of sport while one carries a coconut under his armpit and slams others?
Pretty much.  Except that if you'd ever listened to Andy Griffith, you'd know it ain't no coconut; it's a punkin.
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« Reply #1434 on: December 29, 2010, 10:02:39 AM »

If you want to eat an apple, you have to search for the seller of apples in order to purchase an apple from him.
How true.  Reminds me of my childhood days.  If we were caught wasting apples, Dad would quickly point out "Hey, those things don't grow on trees, you know."
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« Reply #1435 on: December 29, 2010, 11:53:10 AM »

A total waste of bandwidth.
You got that right. There's a whole lot of cut and pasting going on here!  Smiley
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« Reply #1436 on: December 29, 2010, 11:54:15 AM »

A total waste of bandwidth.

   Some people are not interested in spiritual knowledge! What to do?

Watch American Football?

Take up crochet?

Learn Origami and teach it to young children?

Count sheep or count cars?

Read the Manhattan White Pages?
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« Reply #1437 on: December 29, 2010, 12:34:58 PM »

A total waste of bandwidth.

   Some people are not interested in spiritual knowledge! What to do?

Watch American Football?

Take up crochet?

Learn Origami and teach it to young children?

Count sheep or count cars?

Read the Manhattan White Pages?
That would be infinitely more interesting than reading dattaspammi's nonsense.  Can you lend me a copy?  Wink
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« Reply #1438 on: December 29, 2010, 01:19:46 PM »

Read the Manhattan White Pages?
That would be infinitely more interesting than reading dattaspammi's nonsense.  Can you lend me a copy? 
But the front pages (blue? green?) are infinitely more interesting, yet.  Fire!  Ambulance!!  Police!!!  Heck, most TV shows today aren't that exciting.
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« Reply #1439 on: December 29, 2010, 01:26:36 PM »

Dude!  It's college bowl season, and you recommend watching PRO FOOTBALL!?  Is OUTRAGE!!

My opinion of the BCS is equally as low as my opinion towards the OP's reinterpretations of Buddhism / Hinduism.   Wink

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