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Author Topic: Oriental Orthodox Adopting Protestant/Evangelical Practices  (Read 2920 times) Average Rating: 0
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Greg C
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« on: October 15, 2010, 11:56:50 AM »

Hello everyone
I'm new to this board. I came on because I have a question/observation and wanted to see what others have to say.
I do part time ministry for OCF at the University of Maryland Baltimore County (BTW we are having a debate with the Secular Student Alliance of UMBC Nov 16 7 PM at UMBC, so anyone in the Baltimore/DC metro area come!)
It would appear based on my observation with the Coptic club of UMBC that (at least that group) has adopted Protestant Evangelical pratices. We went to one of their meetings recently, and to be honest, it felt no different from a Campus Crusade or Intervarsity Bible study. Even the Bible study they had was protestant.
Has anyone seen this phenomena too? Does anyone have any insight into this? We would very much like to have a good relationship with them. They, of all the other groups on campus, are the ones we have the most in common with. I know we are not in communion, and I'm fully aware of the implications of this.
Another question I have is, is there, if any, anything we can or should do to help them to see what they are doing? Or maybe we should just let them be?
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« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2010, 01:21:39 PM »

What do you mean by Protestant practices specifically?
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Greg C
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« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2010, 01:42:38 PM »

singing protestant praise and worship songs, conducting a Bible study in a protestant style (read a few verses and talk about what they think it means to them), the leader of the Bible study gave no Patristic references, nor did he try to give a sense of what is the Churche's interpretation of these verses having prayer done in "sponteneous" evangelical fashion.
All in all, like I said, it was no different from a campus crusdade or IV bible study, except the name is different.

Also, they almost never attend any OCF events we have on campus, unless we strongly invite them.
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« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2010, 02:12:13 PM »

Who's in charge of their group. Perhaps they don't see what you see.
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« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2010, 03:02:05 PM »

Does anyone have any insight into this?

Super-strict traditionalism says that they are a dead branch thus no fruit!
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Greg C
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« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2010, 03:09:33 PM »

Ok, but in all seriousness, does anyone have any concrete ideas if there's anything we can do to show them what they're doing? Any Oriental Orthodox have any thoughts about this?
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« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2010, 03:46:20 PM »

Hello everyone
I'm new to this board. I came on because I have a question/observation and wanted to see what others have to say.
I do part time ministry for OCF at the University of Maryland Baltimore County (BTW we are having a debate with the Secular Student Alliance of UMBC Nov 16 7 PM at UMBC, so anyone in the Baltimore/DC metro area come!)
It would appear based on my observation with the Coptic club of UMBC that (at least that group) has adopted Protestant Evangelical pratices. We went to one of their meetings recently, and to be honest, it felt no different from a Campus Crusade or Intervarsity Bible study. Even the Bible study they had was protestant.
Has anyone seen this phenomena too? Does anyone have any insight into this? We would very much like to have a good relationship with them. They, of all the other groups on campus, are the ones we have the most in common with. I know we are not in communion, and I'm fully aware of the implications of this.
Another question I have is, is there, if any, anything we can or should do to help them to see what they are doing? Or maybe we should just let them be?
Copts really enjoy Bible Study.
The songs are pretty standard among youth groups, being a carryover from Sunday school, but you are right about some of the other stuff like personal interpretation and lack of Patristic grounding. This could be due to inexperience on the part of those leading the group.

I would suggest:
1) Attend a few meetings. If you know the chapter to be discussed bring your commentary or Orthodox Study Bible and use it to inject context into the discussion, in a humble, factual way.
2) While you are there, see if there is a Priest who acts as Spiritual Advisor to the group. There should be, even if he doesn't come very often. Speak to him privately about your concerns. He will probably agree and you may see some changes.
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« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2010, 04:18:53 PM »

Btw, I have heard that one of the 20th century Copitc popes officially changed the Coptic Orthodox canon of Scriptures to the Protestant one. Is that true?
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Greg C
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« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2010, 04:37:46 PM »

But why use protestant evangelical praise and worship songs at all? They pale in comparision to the hymnography of the Church.

Why do you think they consistently do not attend OCF events?


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coptickev
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« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2010, 05:01:00 PM »

Btw, I have heard that one of the 20th century Copitc popes officially changed the Coptic Orthodox canon of Scriptures to the Protestant one. Is that true?
No. The King James Bible is often used by individuals because it is closest to the Arabic Bible translation, but the Canon is the same as always.
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« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2010, 05:05:07 PM »

But why use protestant evangelical praise and worship songs at all? They pale in comparision to the hymnography of the Church.

Why do you think they consistently do not attend OCF events?



The Church's hymnography is also used, but young people like songs in English that they can remember and sing. It is private prayer after all.

As to attendance, I can't speculate. Maybe you can ask some of them?
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« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2010, 05:18:41 PM »

[My $0.02 opinion].

There are Protestant Coptics who are free to establish their own college group without having to deal with proselytizing from other Christian groups.

As long as the Coptic group is aware of the OCF, that is enough.  Anything else can be construed as proselytizing.

[/My $0.02 opinion]

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Greg C
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« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2010, 05:31:23 PM »

Then sing Orthodox songs and translate them into English. Sorry, not only are praise and worship songs vapid for the most part, but they express a non Orthodox doctrine about God and salvation.
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi (the law of prayer=law of belief) is crucial to the Orthodox life. If there is any administrative authority authorizing the use of these songs for the youth, they are doing a tremendous disservice to them.

BTW, if there is to be a reunion of the Orientals with us, they will have to stop adopting protestant/rc practices
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« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2010, 06:19:48 PM »

Then sing Orthodox songs and translate them into English. Sorry, not only are praise and worship songs vapid for the most part, but they express a non Orthodox doctrine about God and salvation.
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi (the law of prayer=law of belief) is crucial to the Orthodox life. If there is any administrative authority authorizing the use of these songs for the youth, they are doing a tremendous disservice to them.

BTW, if there is to be a reunion of the Orientals with us, they will have to stop adopting protestant/rc practices

Anyone that grew up in an English speaking knows that translation of a song destroys some of it's original beauty. Not to mention, it often sounds forced if not just odd.

Are there songs that have the wrong message, obviously, but just the song itself in a different style doesn't mean the kids will be lost. They still have the divine liturgy. Just be glad those are the songs they want to listen to on their free time.


My two cents
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« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2010, 06:46:58 PM »

Then sing Orthodox songs and translate them into English. Sorry, not only are praise and worship songs vapid for the most part, but they express a non Orthodox doctrine about God and salvation.
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi (the law of prayer=law of belief) is crucial to the Orthodox life. If there is any administrative authority authorizing the use of these songs for the youth, they are doing a tremendous disservice to them.

BTW, if there is to be a reunion of the Orientals with us, they will have to stop adopting protestant/rc practices
You mean like speaking Latin  Smiley

Let me try this from a different angle. There exists in Arabic a large body of what for lack of a better term might be called "Spiritual Songs", basically folk type music with a religious theme. There's plenty of it on You-Tube if you wish to investigate it. In Egypt people listen to them in the car,while working etc, instead of listening to popular music. What you hear at Coptic youth meetings is an attempt to do the same thing in English. Many songs are in fact translations of Arabic favorites, some did in fact originate with English speaking Protestants.  I don't care much for them myself (I like the Arabic ones better, probably because I don't understand them well enough to dislike them), but there's not a lot of harm to be done by them to a person who otherwise has access to Orthodox teaching. Certainly better than what's on the radio.

Quote
BTW, if there is to be a reunion of the Orientals with us, they will have to stop adopting protestant/rc practices

I'm beginning to get a sense of why they may not want to attend the OCF events.
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« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2010, 08:07:16 PM »

Quote
BTW, if there is to be a reunion of the Orientals with us, they will have to stop adopting protestant/rc practices
I'm beginning to get a sense of why they may not want to attend the OCF events.
I am Oriental Orthodox, but from Syriac tradition and not the Coptic tradition. I can relate why some of the Coptic students may not want to attend OCF.  I have been told that the way I cross myself is wrong and RC practice by EOs. Another time I had to sit and listen to a priest lecturing to me about hellenism and Alexander the Great.  Never understood why fighting and killing and conquering made anyone great, nor what Alexander had to do with Orthodox christianity. Out of respect to the elder priest, i just listened.
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« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2010, 08:57:39 PM »

America is a sea of Protestant culture.  It is inevitable that some Orthodox living here will be influenced by it.  I recall a couple of threads on this forum about a Greek priest who was into Pentecostalism.   Smiley

I agree that we need to resist the influence, but it's not as easy as one may think.
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Salpy
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« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2010, 09:02:42 PM »

BTW, if there is to be a reunion of the Orientals with us, they will have to stop adopting protestant/rc practices

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,6848.0.html#top
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Greg C
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« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2010, 12:48:30 AM »

quote:
"Let me try this from a different angle. There exists in Arabic a large body of what for lack of a better term might be called "Spiritual Songs", basically folk type music with a religious theme. There's plenty of it on You-Tube if you wish to investigate it. In Egypt people listen to them in the car,while working etc, instead of listening to popular music. What you hear at Coptic youth meetings is an attempt to do the same thing in English. Many songs are in fact translations of Arabic favorites, some did in fact originate with English speaking Protestants.  I don't care much for them myself (I like the Arabic ones better, probably because I don't understand them well enough to dislike them), but there's not a lot of harm to be done by them to a person who otherwise has access to Orthodox teaching. Certainly better than what's on the radio."

They are not singing Christian Arabic folk songs, they are singing protestant praise and worship songs in the context of worship. They also are not singing songs written by Orthodox people, but are written by protestants and have protestant theology expressed in those songs.
I'm not sure that its an attempt to do the same thing in English. They were not singing those songs just for fun, but in the context of worship. These songs express the theology that God became Man to suffer punishment or that He needs to calm down so He can forgive us. This idea of salvation is not Orthodox, Oriental or Chalcedonian. The songs are also very "me" or "I" focused rather than focusing on God.

quote:
"I'm beginning to get a sense of why they may not want to attend the OCF events."

We have a good relationship with them, most times, a few will attend our 1st meeting in the semester, then we never see them again after that. We are always inviting them to all of our events, they always do not come. Our meetings consist of a reader's service, book discusssion, speakers, and other activities. We go to their meetings once in a while. We've never had a conversation with them about how the adoption of protestant/rc practices will have to stop.
Nonetheless, we as the OCF will testify to the Truth of Orthodoxy, and we will speak the Truth, hopefully by God's grace and mercy, on love.
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« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2010, 02:52:09 AM »

I see the Coptic church using protestant hymns during liturgy even. I know the Ethiopian church IS NOT like this at all which is why I am thinking of going to an Ethiopian Orthodox instead of the Coptic church I go to now. I have thrown a fit about this protestant hymns B.S. and nobody seems to care because as I was told "The bishops know more than you" so basically I have to shut up and watch my church be invaded by satan.
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« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2010, 03:00:56 AM »

Which Protestant hymns are being sung, and when in the liturgy are they sung?

That just seems odd to me.  I've been to a number of Coptic liturgies and I have never experienced that. 
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« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2010, 03:04:13 AM »

Its not a regular thing, to my knowledge, but I think after communion maybe, I am not sure but I know they have been sung before. It disgusts me, I literally feel ill to my stomach. St. Mark's in L.A. has a group of Copts that have started a band that sings protestant hymns, the make the kids sing them in sunday school. Its horrible and the stupid clergy let this happen, its garbage. No offense but if someone does something stupid they are stupid, clergy or not.
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« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2010, 03:15:09 AM »

I would try to avoid insulting the clergy.  I think that sort of thing is looked upon as a sin in our tradition. 

It seems the Protestant hymns are not a regular part of your liturgy then, but it is something that perhaps has happened.  Well, like I said before, it is inevitable that in a Protestant country like ours some influence will seep in.  At my church, we had a choir director some time ago who used to set the "Lord have mercy" prayers to music from Handel.  That was just weird. 

With regard to the band in Los Angeles, that may be their way of trying to keep the youth in the Church.  I'm not necessarily wild about that sort of thing either, but that is something for the Church leaders to worry about.  Instead of insulting them, I think it would be more constructive and more effective to just pray for them.  When we pray for our bishops, I think God hears us.  When we insult them, I would imagine that is something God doesn't want to hear.  We want to please God so that He hears us.   Smiley
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« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2010, 03:22:38 AM »

I am not at all familiar with the groups you mention, but I do agree that songs sung in Coptic Orthodox church events should reflect the theology of that church.
As for Bible study, there is wonderful patristric commentary by Egyptian fathers, why not use it? Also much more commentary by "Greek" fathers, written before Chalcedon. The meaning of the Bible is not something subjective.
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« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2010, 12:24:52 PM »

because as I was told "The bishops know more than you" so basically I have to shut up and watch my church be invaded by satan.

Oh, I know that phenomenon only too well.  laugh Sad Tongue
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« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2010, 02:30:46 PM »

because as I was told "The bishops know more than you" so basically I have to shut up and watch my church be invaded by satan.

Oh, I know that phenomenon only too well.  laugh Sad Tongue

Yea, I dont pretend to know even half of what our clergy knows, but they are not infallible by any stretch of the imagination. Their biggest problem is that they do not know how to deal with converts. Mainly because we are raised differently here, fathers and sons relate to each other in a different way. In the Orthodox culture it is different, so when speaking to your spiritual father, they are not able to fully understand this, atleast most of them in my experience. This is why so many converts end up leaving the church, the inability of the clergy to either care, or take time to understand OUR culture and stop expecting us to completely change ours in OUR country. Its just frustrating beyond belief!
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« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2010, 06:34:31 AM »

Hello everyone
I'm new to this board. I came on because I have a question/observation and wanted to see what others have to say.
I do part time ministry for OCF at the University of Maryland Baltimore County (BTW we are having a debate with the Secular Student Alliance of UMBC Nov 16 7 PM at UMBC, so anyone in the Baltimore/DC metro area come!)


Hi Greg welcome to the forum.

Does OCF plan to let IVF or CC know about these debates.  My son (not Orthodox) is pretty involved in IVF at UMBC and I would love for him to go.  BTW, who is doing the debating?   Is it someone from your local OCF or are you bringing in a priest or something?

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« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2010, 10:14:53 AM »

I see the Coptic church using protestant hymns during liturgy even. I know the Ethiopian church IS NOT like this at all which is why I am thinking of going to an Ethiopian Orthodox instead of the Coptic church I go to now. I have thrown a fit about this protestant hymns B.S. and nobody seems to care because as I was told "The bishops know more than you" so basically I have to shut up and watch my church be invaded by satan.

One of the things that impressed me the most about the Protestants was that some of them seem to have thrown the "baby out with the bathwater" when they rebelled against the excesses of the Roman Catholic Church. By condemning anything "Protestant," aren't we falling into the same logical fallacy? Amongst the Protestants, isn't there a smidgen of truth, of grace, of similarity with us? Conversely, if we Orthodox have the fullness of faith, shouldn't we be the last to condemn those Christian brothers who do not have but a part of the faith?
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« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2010, 10:46:20 AM »

Don't the Western Rite congregations employ Protestant hymns in their services?  I guess they have been invaded by Satan also.  But then again that's what some seem to think anyway.
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« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2010, 11:57:26 AM »

Don't the Western Rite congregations employ Protestant hymns in their services?  I guess they have been invaded by Satan also.

Some of the AWRV congregations do employ some Protestant hymns (listed under 'Choral' headline here: http://www.members.cox.net/frnicholas/Hymnal.htm) but these (1) are of Mainline Protestant provenance, which, I guess, isn't as bad as being of Evangelical origin Wink, (2) are used after the Divine Liturgy, not during it, and (3) were evaluated for Orthodox use.
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« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2010, 01:01:39 PM »

Protestantism should be rejected as a whole, in every aspect, as any other heresy would be. Unfortunately to appease stupid people our clergy has found it necessary to incorporate protestant hymns into our church, which are not supposed to be used in the Liturgy, which is supposed to appease the intelligent faithful. Soon enough they will be used in the Liturgy as people break down and start to accept it as the norm or americanizing the liturgy. This is a sign of the end, our church has been infiltrated by our own.

The end is now, pray.
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« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2010, 01:40:31 PM »

I hate to say it, but Ioannes, that was about as Protestant-sounding as anything I have ever heard!  The sentiment (though not the particulars) could have easily come from a Fundamentalist TV preacher.  
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« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2010, 02:13:56 PM »

I hate to say it, but Ioannes, that was about as Protestant-sounding as anything I have ever heard!  The sentiment (though not the particulars) could have easily come from a Fundamentalist TV preacher.  

Explain.
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« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2010, 03:24:52 PM »

because as I was told "The bishops know more than you" so basically I have to shut up and watch my church be invaded by satan.

Oh, I know that phenomenon only too well.  laugh Sad Tongue

Yea, I dont pretend to know even half of what our clergy knows, but they are not infallible by any stretch of the imagination. Their biggest problem is that they do not know how to deal with converts. Mainly because we are raised differently here, fathers and sons relate to each other in a different way. In the Orthodox culture it is different, so when speaking to your spiritual father, they are not able to fully understand this, atleast most of them in my experience. This is why so many converts end up leaving the church, the inability of the clergy to either care, or take time to understand OUR culture and stop expecting us to completely change ours in OUR country. Its just frustrating beyond belief!

I mostly had in mind the reality of ecumenism creeping into the Oriental Orthodox Church and destroying its witness from within, to the point where many OO are now convinced that the Council of Chalcedon itself was actually perfectly orthodox and simply "misunderstood".
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« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2010, 03:27:05 PM »

By condemning anything "Protestant," aren't we falling into the same logical fallacy?

I'm sure that condemning anything Protestant is not what we had in mind.

Amongst the Protestants, isn't there a smidgen of truth, of grace, of similarity with us?

Of course.

Conversely, if we Orthodox have the fullness of faith, shouldn't we be the last to condemn those Christian brothers who do not have but a part of the faith?

Not really. Maybe if you mean on a personal level. But it is highly important for the Church to call out heresy for what it is.
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« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2010, 03:28:46 PM »

I hate to say it, but Ioannes, that was about as Protestant-sounding as anything I have ever heard!  The sentiment (though not the particulars) could have easily come from a Fundamentalist TV preacher.  

I don't agree. Maybe your post had a smidgen of truth in it, but I definitely do not think to the degree you stated.
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« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2010, 04:47:43 PM »

I still dont understand how half truths can exist? We have the "fullness of faith", is that not just another way of saying we have the WHOLE truth, they only have part of it? Thats pretty dumb, there is truth and untruth, nothing less nothing more.
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« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2010, 04:55:16 PM »

I still dont understand how half truths can exist? We have the "fullness of faith", is that not just another way of saying we have the WHOLE truth, they only have part of it? Thats pretty dumb, there is truth and untruth, nothing less nothing more.

It's because there are many facets to each expression of religion. Many different truth claims. Many different prayers. Many different ritual realities. Some are truthful and some are not. Some have more truth and some have less. Only (Oriental) Orthodoxy is fully truthful in all its fundamental aspects.
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« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2010, 05:40:52 PM »

I still dont understand how half truths can exist? We have the "fullness of faith", is that not just another way of saying we have the WHOLE truth, they only have part of it? Thats pretty dumb, there is truth and untruth, nothing less nothing more.

It's because there are many facets to each expression of religion. Many different truth claims. Many different prayers. Many different ritual realities. Some are truthful and some are not. Some have more truth and some have less. Only (Oriental) Orthodoxy is fully truthful in all its fundamental aspects.

Appropriately gung-ho statements from an adolescent OO inquirer. I hope you will revisit your youthful enthusiasms after a few decades of seasoning.
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« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2010, 05:50:17 PM »

I still dont understand how half truths can exist? We have the "fullness of faith", is that not just another way of saying we have the WHOLE truth, they only have part of it? Thats pretty dumb, there is truth and untruth, nothing less nothing more.

It's because there are many facets to each expression of religion. Many different truth claims. Many different prayers. Many different ritual realities. Some are truthful and some are not. Some have more truth and some have less. Only (Oriental) Orthodoxy is fully truthful in all its fundamental aspects.

Appropriately gung-ho statements from an adolescent OO inquirer. I hope you will revisit your youthful enthusiasms after a few decades of seasoning.

What exactly do you find disagreeable about my statements?
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« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2010, 06:30:29 PM »

The two pillars of protestantism, sola scriptura and sola fide, are heresies and about as far from the truth of Orthodoxy as you can get. We must not define what a Christian is by using their definition, whoever believes in Christ. And you are right, anyone in the right mind would be non-Chalcedon if they actually did their research. Leo I was the first to preach papal primacy, he supported a heretic who never recanted his views and St. Dioscorus is considered and Arch Heretic, for clerical errors? Reading the letter of Leo I will show clearly what his agenda was, and those who followed him. There is nothing incorrect about that.
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« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2010, 06:43:53 PM »

I still dont understand how half truths can exist? We have the "fullness of faith", is that not just another way of saying we have the WHOLE truth, they only have part of it? Thats pretty dumb, there is truth and untruth, nothing less nothing more.

It's because there are many facets to each expression of religion. Many different truth claims. Many different prayers. Many different ritual realities. Some are truthful and some are not. Some have more truth and some have less. Only (Oriental) Orthodoxy is fully truthful in all its fundamental aspects.

Appropriately gung-ho statements from an adolescent OO inquirer. I hope you will revisit your youthful enthusiasms after a few decades of seasoning.

What exactly do you find disagreeable about my statements?

Your tone is very cocky, for one, in almost all of your postings. You tend to make very definitive statements for someone who is so young. Please don't be offended by this; when I was an adolescent (your age and older), I also made such definitive statements. BTW, adolescence is a phase in a person's life that starts with the onset of puberty and lasts well into the twenties (with females coming out of it about three years earlier than males). The problem with adolescence is that the pre-frontal cortex does not function well--that is, one is handicapped in making correct decisions. At the same time, the part of the brain that deals with emotions is over-active.

As for the particular statement that I found objectionable in your latest post, I think it would be "Only (Oriental) Orthodoxy is fully truthful in all its fundamental aspects." As I pointed out, such a definitive statement is to be expected from an adolescent OO inquirer. I would hope that later on in life, when you have full control of your faculties and have more experience, you can better consider the tone, relevance, context of your remarks. After all, the thread is titled "Oriental Orthodox Adopting Protestant/Evangelical Practices," the forum is titled "Orthodox Christianity.Net" but ran by two Eastern Orthodox priests, and some other Oriental Orthodox folks on this forum had made relevant points diplomatically. Your final statement was thus very jarring--almost like a trumpet fanfare in the middle of an a capella rendition of "Holy Night."
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« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2010, 08:02:08 PM »

I still dont understand how half truths can exist? We have the "fullness of faith", is that not just another way of saying we have the WHOLE truth, they only have part of it? Thats pretty dumb, there is truth and untruth, nothing less nothing more.

It's because there are many facets to each expression of religion. Many different truth claims. Many different prayers. Many different ritual realities. Some are truthful and some are not. Some have more truth and some have less. Only (Oriental) Orthodoxy is fully truthful in all its fundamental aspects.

Appropriately gung-ho statements from an adolescent OO inquirer. I hope you will revisit your youthful enthusiasms after a few decades of seasoning.

What exactly do you find disagreeable about my statements?

Your tone is very cocky, for one, in almost all of your postings. You tend to make very definitive statements for someone who is so young. Please don't be offended by this; when I was an adolescent (your age and older), I also made such definitive statements. BTW, adolescence is a phase in a person's life that starts with the onset of puberty and lasts well into the twenties (with females coming out of it about three years earlier than males). The problem with adolescence is that the pre-frontal cortex does not function well--that is, one is handicapped in making correct decisions. At the same time, the part of the brain that deals with emotions is over-active.

As for the particular statement that I found objectionable in your latest post, I think it would be "Only (Oriental) Orthodoxy is fully truthful in all its fundamental aspects." As I pointed out, such a definitive statement is to be expected from an adolescent OO inquirer. I would hope that later on in life, when you have full control of your faculties and have more experience, you can better consider the tone, relevance, context of your remarks. After all, the thread is titled "Oriental Orthodox Adopting Protestant/Evangelical Practices," the forum is titled "Orthodox Christianity.Net" but ran by two Eastern Orthodox priests, and some other Oriental Orthodox folks on this forum had made relevant points diplomatically. Your final statement was thus very jarring--almost like a trumpet fanfare in the middle of an a capella rendition of "Holy Night."


I must say that while you accuse Deusveritasest of cockiness, your post above seems very condescending. You failed to address his arguments or refute his assertions. Labeling someone you have never met "adolescent" and presuming to give a clinical diagnosis of their "pre-frontal cortex" is not an argument for your position on the issue at hand. Just thought I'd point that out.


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« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2010, 08:03:01 PM »

My opinion:

1) It is problematic that they use protestant methods of interpreting scripture.
2) But there is nothing wrong with singing protestant songs that are not clearly heretical, as long as it isn't during liturgy, which it isn't.
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« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2010, 08:55:03 PM »

Thank you, Samkim, for the remarkably on-topic response.

Everyone else,

Until now, this thread has wandered off topic and degenerated into clergy and church bashing, Chalcedonian polemics, discussions about cortexes (cortices? What's the correct plural?) and I don't know what else.  Stop it.  I'm asking everyone to please reread the first few posts and if you have something to add that is directly on topic, you may do so.  If the tangents and other unpleasantness continue, I'll lock the thread.

Thank you for your anticipated cooperation.

Salpy
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 09:21:55 PM by Salpy » Logged

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