Deusveritasest, Asteriktos, Fabio Leite, and Punch:
You are right, and yes it is a good pun when you write:
Well, obviously the first hundred years of the Church of Jerusalem.
I was going to say Jesus, but I figured I'd made enough jokes-with-a-point around here over the last week.
I could name at least twelve Orthodox Christians of Jewish origin....
You beat me to it. I would say that he is the most notable Orthodox of Jewish origin.
And if I roll up my eyes
and say "Sigh",
then it becomes more funny:
me: "C'mon guys, I'm looking for a serious answer."
response: But we are serious, who is more notable than Jesus and the 12 apostles among Orthodox Christians.
me: Yes, um... OK... but I was hoping that you would make a longer list, because I asked more specifically:
Is there a list of Notable Christians from before the Schism, and Orthodox afterwards, of Jewish Origin, especially in the HolyLand/Israel/Palestine?
And your list isn't all-encompassing for the notable Christians, since there are others like Joseph of Tiberias. By "notable", I meant famous in Orthodoxy.
I admit that the question poses some possible linguistic ways to quibble over the answer.Be Cool. Cymbyz:
Thanks for mentioning:
Two from the Nicene and post-Nicene era that come to mind off the top of my head are St. Romanos the Melode (from a family of Jewish cantors) and St. Epiphanios of Cypros (who began as an Egyptian monk, but was so erudite that the brethren advised him to go to Alexandria and become a bishop).
From the information on Wikipedia about Romanos, it appears that he wasn't a resident of Palestine:
he was born to a Jewish family in either Emesa (modern-day Homs) or Damascus in Syria. He was baptized as a young boy (though whether or not his parents also converted is uncertain). Having moved to Berytus (Beirut), he was ordained a deacon in the Church of the Resurrection there. He later moved to Constantinople during the reign of the emperor Anastasius
Thanks for mentioning about "St. Epiphanios of Cypros (who began as an Egyptian monk, but was so erudite that the brethren advised him to go to Alexandria and become a bishop)." He certainly qualifies for my blog about Christianity in the Holy land (rakovskii.livejournal.com)
I will make a summary about Epiphanius in the next message.Peace
It's interesting that you write:
From my knowledge of Judaism, based on what I have read by Jacob Taubes, Jewish philosopher, (professor at the Free Univ. of Berlin, Harvard, Columbia and Princeton) the institution of cantor in the synagogue is a modern invention of German Jews who wanted to copy Protestants. It is a fact, that the Jews do not have a priesthood since the fall of the Jerusalem Temple.
Your last sentence is irrelevant, because a cantor isn't necessarily the same as a priest.
There appears to be a big problem with the statement you made, because the internet says:
The Chazzan is defined by the Encyclopedia Judaica as, "The Cantor officiating in a Synagogue used in this specific sense since the Middle Ages." Before the Middle Ages, the Talmud describes various duties performed the "Chazzan Ha-Kenesset" (Cantor of the Synagogue) such as blowing a ram's horn to announce the commencement of the Sabbath and Festivals. He was not, however, regularly required to chant the Synagogue Service but could do so by request. In Talmudic times (from the first half of the third century CE to the sixth century) there was no permanent Cantor, and any member of the congregation might be asked to lead the public prayers. http://www.templesanjose.org/JudaismInfo/Torah/cantor.htm
One possibility is that the author you referred to was referring to a specific kind of cantor position, as defined by his duties, that was created in the modern era.
Based on the quote I cited, Romanus the Melode's family could still be from a kind of Jewish cantor.
You made a good mention about the philosopher Lev Shestov (Born February 13, 1866 Kiev, Russian Empire; Died November 19, 1938 (aged 72) Paris, France)Zdrawe tebe.
Thanks for mentioning:
"Father Nicolae Steinhardt converted to Orthodoxy while imprisoned by the Communists." It sounds like he had a colorful life, although he didn't emigrate to the Holy Land.
In an interesting mention about WWII, his biography in Wikipedia says:
In 1939 Steinhardt worked as an editor for Revista Fundaţiilor Regale (a government-sponsored literary magazine), losing his job between 1940 and 1944, during the ethnic cleansing under the Iron Guard regime (the National Legionary State) and the Ion Antonescu one. Despite his problems with the latter, he would forgive Antonescu, and even praise him for allegedly having saved several hundred thousands Jews (which he claimed had occurred after a face-to-face debate with Adolf Hitler at Berchtesgaden).Regards
You made a good mention of Father Men.
His biography from Wikipedia is interesting, mentioning:
" He was baptized at seven months along with his mother in the banned Catacomb Church, a branch of the Russian Orthodox Church that refused to cooperate with the Soviet authorities. Men was expelled from college in 1958 due to his religious beliefs, and in 1960 was ordained a priest upon graduating from the Leningrad Theological Seminary."
The quote here goes against the idea that the Moscow Patriarchate was merely an arm of the state, because here a person who belonged to a Catacomb movement and was expelled was yet accepted at another insitution.
Also, the story about his axe-killing is strange. It is hard to guess what happened, since it was in 1990 when the Soviet government was at the end of its transition to the Russian government, and posed practically far less negative political importance compared to earlier years, plus he is something of a hero, and the country is hardly ideological against religion anymore...
I believe you when you write:
Ok, someone help me here, as when I read it, it must have been a decade ago or more. I think it was Fr. Men, but perhaps someone else, who enumerated the amount of Orthodox Christians in Russian and Ukraine to be of some Jewish origin. I looked in my two works by Fr. Men and could not find it, so I am thinking perhaps it was someone else. As I recall, when I remember seeing it, it was an astoundingly large number, and could be partially identified by the surname.
I don't know of the specific list you mention, but on the internet it says that about 300,000-400,000 Orthodox Christians of Jewish descent live in the Holy Land as immigrants based on the Israeli government's law of return that gives citizenship to immigrants of recent Jewish descent. It certainly is a large number of people, the size of a medium-small size city.Kind Regards.
You were right when you asked rhetorically:
Who said cantors were priests?
No one in the forum said this before synLeszka asked.
I also makes sense when you write:
Someone in the synagogue had to lead the congregation is singing the hymns. Perhaps it wasn't a defined position of "cantor" like we know it today, but I think the point was that St. Roman's family was made up of good singers, hence his propensity for crafting the beautiful hymns he left behind.
However, from the quote I made to synLeszka above, it appears that such a role existed in Romanus' time, although I'm uncertain how official it was.
Also, your statement is in a way correct:
What do you mean? He was Orthodox his entire life and spent 30 years as a priest before he was murdered (martyred?).
He "lasted" a long time in Orthodoxy for his life, because he stayed in the church since he was 7 months old. Although his life didn't last long, may he live again.Peace, bro.
You made a good mention of Fr. James Bernstein, because he is prominent about Orthodox in America on the topic of Judaism in relation to Orthodoxy and vice-verse.
You asked about Fr. Men:
He didn't last too long though did he?
Fr. Men was baptized at 7 months old in 1935 and died in 1990, making about 55 years, which doesn't seem "too long", as you say. God Bless Him.
You made a good mention of Lev Gillet. His biography on Wikipedia says: "In 1938 he left Paris to settle in London, within the framework of the Fellowship of Saint Alban and Saint Sergius, an ecumenical organization dedicated to the bringing together of the Anglican and Orthodox churches."
I wasn't actually thinking in terms of actual length of days on earth but, as with Gillet, Father Alexander seems to have fallen into disfavor for some of his teachings and understandings of Orthodoxy. So that he may have been a convert but what he was as an Orthodox believer has tended to be marginalized.
Whether or not someone's teachings and understandings of Orthodoxy fall into disfavor has nothing to do with whether someone is "lasting" within Orthodoxy, unless the person is excommunicated or leaves the church because of those reasons, neither of which instance applies to either Gillet or Fr. Men.
And then, of course, there is the fact that he was murdered.
However, this is also irrelevant to your question, because you specified that you weren't "actually thinking in terms of actual length of days on earth"- unless you mean that he was murdered because of his religious ideas. I believe that he wasn't murdered for his religious ideas, because the Orthodox Church today very rarely if ever directly and intentionally performs killing, besides that such an act would be a very high sin prohibited by and for the Church. Plus, I have never heard of the Church as an institution killing anyone intentionally in the 19th-21st century, or an Orthodox religious leader killing anyone for religious reasons in the 19th-21st century.Take care
You made a good mention of Fr. Alexander Winogradsky of the Jerusalem Patriarchate, whose total writings on his blogs and websites seems prodigious. He is also friendly to write to and appears a kind person, may the LORD bless him.