Author Topic: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church  (Read 10303 times)

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Online rakovsky

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #630 on: January 13, 2017, 05:10:03 PM »
I agree with you there.  I have a huge problem with the RCC and their teachings.  From my relative Melkite vantage point:  AOC = MC - communion with RCC. ... the Melkite Church could be the catalyst for true unity in the future.
It sounds like maybe you converted with your EO priest and then immediately went back to being Melkite via your professions teaching Melkite faith.

Sounds like you're just guessing and making things up.
U.Fl.Gator,
If a Mormon gets Orthodox baptism and Chrismation and makes an Orthodox declaration of faith and does the steps normally required for entrance into Orthodoxy, and then says he never converted and that Mormonism is orthodox too, then is he apostasizing back to Mormonism, a simple heretic, or did he never convert from Mormonism and become Orthodox in the first place?
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 05:10:29 PM by rakovsky »

Offline urg8rb8

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #631 on: January 13, 2017, 05:12:55 PM »
I agree with you there.  I have a huge problem with the RCC and their teachings.  From my relative Melkite vantage point:  AOC = MC - communion with RCC. ... the Melkite Church could be the catalyst for true unity in the future.
It sounds like maybe you converted with your EO priest and then immediately went back to being Melkite via your professions teaching Melkite faith.

Sounds like you're just guessing and making things up.
U.Fl.Gator,
If a Mormon gets Orthodox baptism and Chrismation and makes an Orthodox declaration of faith and does the steps normally required for entrance into Orthodoxy, and then says he never converted and that Mormonism is orthodox too, then is he apostasizing back to Mormonism, a simple heretic, or did he never convert from Mormonism and become Orthodox in the first place?

Changing the subject?

If a Mormon said Mormon theology was orthodox he's be lying.  If a Melkite said Melkitism was orthodox, he's be telling the truth.
"Open my lips, Lord, and my mouth will declare your praise." - Psalm 51:15

Online rakovsky

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #632 on: January 13, 2017, 05:13:27 PM »
This was always my impression as well.  Once those "Western" (in this case read as heterodox) influences come in, then the vitiated church is no longer Orthodox.  It has joined itself - in full communion - to a heterodox body, and thus has become not only heterodox, but a part of that church as well.  The Melkite Church is a part of the Roman Catholic.
Antonius,

There was in fact a major gathering of 28 Melkite bishops who declared themselves in agreement with the EOs in theological disputes with Rome.

See here:
Melkite Synod in 'rebellion'
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,69280.msg1405102.html#msg1405102

See also the 1975 Zoghby initiative and its profession of faith:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoghby_Initiative


So let's say a major Melkite gathering of bishops declared that they accepted the RC Councils as truth, and then went point by point rejecting every theological statement by those RC Councils that disagreed with Orthodoxy. Would that make them definitely Orthodox in the substance of their theology?

To put it another way, if a Council makes wrong theology and you accept the Council while stipulating that you oppose the wrong theology, does that make you heretical? Alternately, if a Council makes right theology, and you reject the Council and its theological statement as heretical, while proposing a theological alternative to it that is in fact Orthodox, does that make you Orthodox in theology?

So you finally agree the Melkite Church has officially rejected the RCC teachings for itself. 
No. I am asking a question to Antonious about this kind of argument itself.

Maybe Antonious will answer me that such cases are still heretical.

I am interested in his reply.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 05:14:09 PM by rakovsky »

Online rakovsky

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #633 on: January 13, 2017, 05:15:49 PM »
It sounds like maybe you converted with your EO priest and then immediately went back to being Melkite via your professions teaching Melkite faith.

Sounds like you're just guessing and making things up.
U.Fl.Gator,
If a Mormon gets Orthodox baptism and Chrismation and makes an Orthodox declaration of faith and does the steps normally required for entrance into Orthodoxy, and then says he never converted and that Mormonism is orthodox too, then is he apostasizing back to Mormonism, a simple heretic, or did he never convert from Mormonism and become Orthodox in the first place?

If a Mormon said Mormon theology was orthodox he's be lying. 
OK, so did the Mormon in the example ever convert to Orthodoxy, or did he convert but then just go back to being Mormon due to his lying about how he sees things from his "Mormon vantage point"?

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #634 on: January 13, 2017, 05:46:16 PM »
I understand that individual Melkites might share similar ideas with EOs. However I don't think that it can be generalized in the sense that they share the same with us.

I agree.

Quote
The Melkite church is a Catholic church, sharing the Catholic faith. They accept the RC doctrine and abide to it despite having Greek practices.

Not exactly.  I've already provided an example.  The sacramental practice is not merely a matter of ritual. 

Quote
It's up to individual church''s practices how converts should be received. That said,  I don't think there's any difference between confirmed RC and Chrismated EC. The timing of sacrament is different and the RC practice is IMO incorrect (but not church-dividing issue, btw)  but it's really the same thing.

I don't think there's any difference between confirmed RC and chrismated EC in terms of how to receive them into the Orthodox Church.  But if you have a baptised but not confirmed RC and a baptised and chrismated EC, there is definitely a difference in how you receive them, despite both being Catholic. 
Just grab them by prayer.


Mor has spoken through George... this is the faith of the fathers!

The Church's bridegroom was never the Byzantine Empire.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #635 on: January 13, 2017, 06:00:03 PM »
But there are instances in which Eastern Catholics accept the validity of Latin teachings for Latins while rejecting them for themselves.  The differences in sacramental theology and practice I mentioned earlier are an example of that.  I don't think that applies across the board to everything as urg8rb8 would have us believe, but it does apply in certain not unimportant situations and it's a real difference.

I'm not sure that I agree with this approach to sacramental theology.  How can one hold something they deem to be a theological falsehood true for someone else? 

I'm not sure it's a matter of theological falsehood from their perspective.  The Melkites recognise that the Latins have a particular theology and practice of marriage and they accept that, but they don't accept that for themselves.  If two Latins get married in a ceremony officiated by a RC deacon, the Melkites would accept that as a real marriage.  If two Melkites get married in a ceremony officiated by a Melkite deacon, it's not a valid marriage and probably the deacon faces the possibility of some canonical sanctions.   The underlying reason for that is not merely a difference in ritual, but how that difference in ritual reflects theology. 

"Catholic is Catholic is Catholic" only takes you so far, even by Catholic standards. 

Quote
  How is the idea you are articulating (on behalf of the Melkites) a consistent approach to sacramental theology? 

I'm not arguing its consistency or inconsistency.  Whether we think it consistent or not, it is part of how Melkites and Latins co-exist in the same communion, and as a consequence there are some legitimate differences which we can and ought to take into account when dealing with a Melkite vs a Latin.
Just grab them by prayer.


Mor has spoken through George... this is the faith of the fathers!

The Church's bridegroom was never the Byzantine Empire.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #636 on: January 13, 2017, 06:01:11 PM »
I'm glad Mr Mor validated my situation with the AOC when he contacted the Archdiocese.
I'm glad he has, too. The problem is that you keep taking his posts as a concession that the Melkite Church as a whole is officially small "o" orthodox. That's not what he's saying at all.

You get it, urg8rb8 does not. 
Just grab them by prayer.


Mor has spoken through George... this is the faith of the fathers!

The Church's bridegroom was never the Byzantine Empire.

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #637 on: January 13, 2017, 06:02:26 PM »
I agree with you there.  I have a huge problem with the RCC and their teachings.  From my relative Melkite vantage point:  AOC = MC - communion with RCC. ... the Melkite Church could be the catalyst for true unity in the future.
It sounds like maybe you converted with your EO priest and then immediately went back to being Melkite via your professions teaching Melkite faith.

Sounds like you're just guessing and making things up.

^Irony.
Just grab them by prayer.


Mor has spoken through George... this is the faith of the fathers!

The Church's bridegroom was never the Byzantine Empire.

Offline urg8rb8

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #638 on: January 13, 2017, 06:12:23 PM »
I'm glad Mr Mor validated my situation with the AOC when he contacted the Archdiocese.
I'm glad he has, too. The problem is that you keep taking his posts as a concession that the Melkite Church as a whole is officially small "o" orthodox. That's not what he's saying at all.

You get it, urg8rb8 does not.

The Melkites recognise that the Latins have a particular theology and practice of marriage and they accept that, but they don't accept that for themselves.

You're saying everything I'm saying. I love it when things come full circle.  ;)
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 06:13:48 PM by urg8rb8 »
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Offline urg8rb8

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #639 on: January 13, 2017, 06:13:02 PM »
I agree with you there.  I have a huge problem with the RCC and their teachings.  From my relative Melkite vantage point:  AOC = MC - communion with RCC. ... the Melkite Church could be the catalyst for true unity in the future.
It sounds like maybe you converted with your EO priest and then immediately went back to being Melkite via your professions teaching Melkite faith.

Sounds like you're just guessing and making things up.

^Irony.

Apparently I'm not based on the golden phone call to NJ.
"Open my lips, Lord, and my mouth will declare your praise." - Psalm 51:15

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #640 on: January 13, 2017, 06:56:43 PM »
By the way, would you kindly address the inconsistency in the story of how you were received as rakovksy pointed out below?  Thank you:

The conversation went something like this:  "Hey Abbouna... this is the second Sunday in a row I've been coming to this church.  I am Melkite and I'd like to start coming here.  But I'd also like to receive communion."  His response:  "Welcome to the church. I have no issues giving you communion, since you are Melkite, just come regularly if you were RC, Maronite, etc... then I'd have to chrismate you".
I think that is not how the conversation really went.

He wanted to anoint me with oil first. 

Who knows what the real story is.
He wanted to anoint him with oil, until he was told that he was already anointed in the Melkite Church.

It seems that the two accounts conflict.  In one, he wants to anoint him with oil and later relents or changes his mind (perhaps upon discovering that he was already anointed in the Melkite Catholic Church as you've described).  In the other, he welcomes him to the chalice with no qualifications right from the start with no mention of anointing him at all.  Now his story is "what you said".  I;m not sure that was the case from the beginning, considering his track record for trolling and inconsistencies in this thread.

If a Mormon said Mormon theology was orthodox he's be lying.  If a Melkite said Melkitism was orthodox...

...he would also be lying.

There was in fact a major gathering of 28 Melkite bishops who declared themselves in agreement with the EOs in theological disputes with Rome.

See here:
Melkite Synod in 'rebellion'
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,69280.msg1405102.html#msg1405102

See also the 1975 Zoghby initiative and its profession of faith:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoghby_Initiative

Then they should've left Rome and its errors and become Orthodox.

So let's say a major Melkite gathering of bishops declared that they accepted the RC Councils as truth, and then went point by point rejecting every theological statement by those RC Councils that disagreed with Orthodoxy. Would that make them definitely Orthodox in the substance of their theology?

Since our theology is lived, no.  Intellectually understanding that something is wrong and living out that knowledge are two different things.  If a woman is aware that her husband is a serial killer, and she understands that this is wrong, but continues to live with him and doesn't call the cops even after he kidnaps his latest girl, is she innocent or complicit in his crimes?

To put it another way, if a Council makes wrong theology and you accept the Council while stipulating that you oppose the wrong theology, does that make you heretical?

The council would have to repudiate said errors before I could accept it.  Accepting the council means accepting the council.

Alternately, if a Council makes right theology, and you reject the Council and its theological statement as heretical, while proposing a theological alternative to it that is in fact Orthodox, does that make you Orthodox in theology?

It depends.  Are you rejecting the council because you reject the Orthodox statements it has made, or are you rejecting it because of its abusive actions and tacit acceptance of heretical documents?  Are we really doing this here?

I'm not sure it's a matter of theological falsehood from their perspective.  The Melkites recognise that the Latins have a particular theology and practice of marriage and they accept that, but they don't accept that for themselves.  If two Latins get married in a ceremony officiated by a RC deacon, the Melkites would accept that as a real marriage.  If two Melkites get married in a ceremony officiated by a Melkite deacon, it's not a valid marriage and probably the deacon faces the possibility of some canonical sanctions.   The underlying reason for that is not merely a difference in ritual, but how that difference in ritual reflects theology. 

"Catholic is Catholic is Catholic" only takes you so far, even by Catholic standards. 

I understand that this is their perspective on the matter.  I don't the that perspective as being valid.  I see it as being inconsistent, incoherent, and hypocritical.  It's a cheap and practically meaningless definition of what it means to be in communion and what it means to have a valid and canonical marriage.

I'm not arguing its consistency or inconsistency.  Whether we think it consistent or not, it is part of how Melkites and Latins co-exist in the same communion, and as a consequence there are some legitimate differences which we can and ought to take into account when dealing with a Melkite vs a Latin.

Discerning what their point of view is doesn't mean we recognize the concept as valid.  Whether or not you are interested in arguing consistency or inconsistency here, I think it matters.
Worship is theology, so a church which brings Evangelical and Charismatic "praise & worship" into its corporate life is no longer Orthodox.  It is, by definition, heterodox.  Those "Orthodox" leaders who make theological arguments for the incorporation of heteropraxis into the life of the Church are heretics.

http://returntoorthodoxy.com/

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #641 on: January 13, 2017, 07:05:24 PM »

There was in fact a major gathering of 28 Melkite bishops who declared themselves in agreement with the EOs in theological disputes with Rome.

See here:
Melkite Synod in 'rebellion'
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,69280.msg1405102.html#msg1405102

See also the 1975 Zoghby initiative and its profession of faith:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoghby_Initiative


The conflict described in the first link doesn't have anything directly to do with Orthodoxy or theology. Exactly what is going on is somewhat oblique, but the conflict between the bishops and their patriarch seems to have do with disagreements arising from financial and pastoral issues caused by the civil war in Syria. In any case, the dissenting bishops unsuccessfully appealed to the Congregation for Oriental Churches, while Patriarch John X has publicly expressed his support for Patriarch Lahham.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 07:11:40 PM by Samn! »

Offline urg8rb8

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #642 on: January 13, 2017, 07:14:04 PM »
By the way, would you kindly address the inconsistency in the story of how you were received as rakovksy pointed out below?  Thank you:

The conversation went something like this:  "Hey Abbouna... this is the second Sunday in a row I've been coming to this church.  I am Melkite and I'd like to start coming here.  But I'd also like to receive communion."  His response:  "Welcome to the church. I have no issues giving you communion, since you are Melkite, just come regularly if you were RC, Maronite, etc... then I'd have to chrismate you".
He wanted to anoint me with oil first. 
He wanted to anoint him with oil, until he was told that he was already anointed in the Melkite Church.

Right. The priest's response was not an automatic "Welcome to the church. I have no issues giving you communion, since you are Melkite".

He made him do things like give a profession of faith, accept the Orthodox teachings, and require him to regularly attend EO liturgies and EO confession.
That is not "no issues" with giving him automatic communion as a Melkite.

Like I said, I didn't profess anything in any offical way what so ever.
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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #643 on: January 13, 2017, 07:18:56 PM »
Like I said, I didn't profess anything in any offical way what so ever.
Your professions made to your priest (what you call "discussion"), like where he had you say the Nicene Creed and to affirm other things like your adherence to the Orthodox Church and its teachings count as "official" for purposes of our Church.

Let me know how you would answer the Mormon example I gave:
Quote
If a Mormon gets Orthodox baptism and Chrismation and makes an Orthodox declaration of faith and does the steps normally required for entrance into Orthodoxy, and then says he never converted and that Mormonism is orthodox too, then is he apostasizing back to Mormonism, a simple heretic, or did he never convert from Mormonism and become Orthodox in the first place?

I foresee some big headaches potentially down the road for your relations with your church based on the way you keep arguing here, unfortunately.

Online rakovsky

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #644 on: January 13, 2017, 07:54:07 PM »
There was in fact a major gathering of 28 Melkite bishops who declared themselves in agreement with the EOs in theological disputes with Rome.

See here:
Melkite Synod in 'rebellion'
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,69280.msg1405102.html#msg1405102

See also the 1975 Zoghby initiative and its profession of faith:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoghby_Initiative

Then they should've left Rome and its errors and become Orthodox.

So let's say a major Melkite gathering of bishops declared that they accepted the RC Councils as truth, and then went point by point rejecting every theological statement by those RC Councils that disagreed with Orthodoxy. Would that make them definitely Orthodox in the substance of their theology?

Since our theology is lived, no.  Intellectually understanding that something is wrong and living out that knowledge are two different things.  If a woman is aware that her husband is a serial killer, and she understands that this is wrong, but continues to live with him and doesn't call the cops even after he kidnaps his latest girl, is she innocent or complicit in his crimes?

To put it another way, if a Council makes wrong theology and you accept the Council while stipulating that you oppose the wrong theology, does that make you heretical?

The council would have to repudiate said errors before I could accept it.  Accepting the council means accepting the council.

Alternately, if a Council makes right theology, and you reject the Council and its theological statement as heretical, while proposing a theological alternative to it that is in fact Orthodox, does that make you Orthodox in theology?

It depends.  Are you rejecting the council because you reject the Orthodox statements it has made, or are you rejecting it because of its abusive actions and tacit acceptance of heretical documents?  Are we really doing this here?
Hi Antonious.

I am trying to see: Are the Melkites "heretics" who actually teach Papal Infallibility and the other mistaken RC doctrines or not?

There are formal gatherings of Melkite bishops who declare that they teach everything the Eastern Orthodox church teaches (which would include a rejection of RC heresies), and there are even some Melkites like "YouAreGatorBait" here who declarations that Papal Infallibility and the RC Councils' teachings are wrong. All those declarations by them, alone, would make them "orthodox" and not heretical or RC in doctrine, right?

And yet nonetheless, their Melkite Church signs on to the Councils, some of their lead bishops and website openly ascribe to those councils' teachings, and Mor has cited the "Canons of the Eastern Catholic Churches" that do the same kind of thing. The Melkites want their Churches' decisions and the RC Councils to be interpreted in "in an orthodox way", and say that the RCs and Melkites just have different "interpretations" of the teachings.

Those who claim they should have different "interpretations" of their agreed-on statements intellectually misunderstand the problem with these Councils' statements (although I deeply doubt that Melkites actually misunderstand the Councils' decisions). They might hear the phrase "Papal Supremacy" and claim it means "supreme/highest/first among equals".

So we come away with Melkites who either reject these RC heresies or misunderstand that the statements' wordings are heretical. And it raises the question of whether the Melkites who are in this "Janus Head" situation are heretics or not.

I think I figured it out by now though. "Heresy" just means false teaching, and even if they make true teachings, they make other false ones too. eg. The teaching of Papal Supremacy is false, and the Melkite misconstruing of this wrong teaching is also false.

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #646 on: January 27, 2017, 03:35:12 AM »
Listen to this podcast:

http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/illuminedheart/eastern_catholics_are_they_orthodox

"If it were to be used in charity and love, then that would be different" than if it were forced and abusive. "The idea of Papal Infallibility... is certainly an issue that is very important ".  ~ Melkite Fr. Babcock on Papal Infallibility. (min. 21)

"We don't really have the Immaculate Conception in our Churches" (min. 23)

Quote
Quote
THE IMMACULATE CONCEPTION CHURCH OF THE GREEK MELKITE CATHOLICS
HELIOPOLIS  CAIRO   


The Immaculate Conception church  was built in 1942, when Heliopolis counted very few houses and buildings. In fact, at one of the lateral altars, the "prothesis", the picture of the birth of Christ has the date of September 1942 as well as the icon of the Virgin Mary with the Child behind the main  altar.

This church is called in Arabic language "Al Azrah al Tahira" (the Virgin the All-Pure) but from the foundation it is known  also by the French name of "IMMACULEE CONCEPTION" to honor the dogma of the Immaculate Conception proclaimed by the Pope Pius IX on 8 December 1854.
http://www.egliseimmaculee.net/englishsummary.htm

Quote
Journey to the Holy Land: Blessings From Bedouin Jordan
Msgr. Kozar reports on the further developments of his pastoral visit to the Middle East: The Italian Hospital and Immaculate Conception Melkite Greek Catholic Church.
http://www.cnewa.org/tagresults.aspx?ID=101&sitecode=us

Quote
From the hospital we went to visit the Melkite Greek Catholic pastor of Immaculate Conception Church, Abuna Boulos (or Father Paul), and were joined there by Archbishop Yasser Ayyash and some other priests. We had a delightful lunch, where I learned much about the Melkite Greek Catholic Church. When I entered the rectory, Father Boulos immediately introduced me to his wife, as it is the Melkite tradition for priests to marry before ordination.
http://www.cnewa.org/blog.aspx?ID=306&pagetypeID=35&sitecode=us&pageno=1

Melkite Church Bulletin:
Quote
St. George Melkite Greek Catholic Church

THIS WEEK
Today:
Pot-luck Luncheon & Children’s Program  following Divine Liturgy.
Monday:
Feast of the Maternity of St. Ann (Immaculate Conception)
8:30 a.m.  Divine Liturgy


One time I visited a Ukrainian Catholic (not Melkite) Church and the sermon was on the Immaculate Conception. So I know that this belief can be found among some Eastern Catholics.
http://byzantinemilwaukee.com/12-08-2013%20Bulletin.pdf
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 03:36:21 AM by rakovsky »

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #647 on: January 27, 2017, 10:40:29 AM »
Saint Dmitri of Rostov had a Brotherhood of the Immaculate Conception.
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But it had not been in Tess's power - nor is it in anybody's power - to feel the whole truth of golden opinions while it is possible to profit by them. She - and how many more - might have ironically said to God with Saint Augustine, "Thou hast counselled a better course than thou hast permitted."
Thomas Hardy, Tess of the D'Urbervilles

Offline IreneOlinyk

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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #648 on: January 27, 2017, 11:46:55 AM »
Saint Dmitri of Rostov had a Brotherhood of the Immaculate Conception.
Proof?

When you look at Ukrainian-Catholic  works translated into English there is a tendency to translate the Church Slavonic phrases like "Most Pure" or "All Pure"  Mother of God into "Immaculate Conception."


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Re: Can I, a Melkite, receive communion at an Antiochian Orthodox church
« Reply #649 on: January 27, 2017, 12:08:10 PM »
Saint Dmitri of Rostov had a Brotherhood of the Immaculate Conception.
Proof?

When you look at Ukrainian-Catholic  works translated into English there is a tendency to translate the Church Slavonic phrases like "Most Pure" or "All Pure"  Mother of God into "Immaculate Conception."

It's discussed in a couple of places (e.g. Met Makary Bulgakov's history of the Church of Russia.)

Here is what Fr Georges Florovsky says about it in The Ways of Russian Theology:

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Probably the most representative figure of this final chapter in the Mogila era in Kievan intellectual history was Ioasaf Krokovskii (d. 1718), reformer, or even second founder, of the Kievan school. For a time he served as its rector and later he became metropolitan of Kiev. More than any other figure he seems to exhibit in religious activity and intellectual outlook all the ambiguities and contradictions of Kiev's cultural "pseudomorphosis: Educated at the Greek College of St. Athanasius in Rome, Krokovskii for the rest of his life was to retain the theological set of mind, religious convictions, and devotional habits he acquired there. At Kiev, he taught theology according to Aquinas and centered his devotional life — as was characteristic of the Baroque era — on the praise of the Blessed Virgin of the Immaculate Conception. It was under his rectorship that the student "congregations" of the Kiev Academy known as Marian Sodalities arose, in which members had to dedicate their lives "to the Virgin Mary, conceived without original sin" ("Virgini Mariae sine labe originali conceptae") and take an oath to preach and defend against heretics that "Mary was not only without actual sin, venal or mortal, but also free from original sin," although adding that "those who regard her as conceived in original sin are not to be classed as heretics."  Krokovskii's acceptance of the Immaculate Conception and his propagation of the doctrine at Kiev was no more than the consolidation of a tradition that for some time in the seventeenth century had been forming among various representatives of Kievan theology, including St. Dimitrii of Rostov.
Quote
But it had not been in Tess's power - nor is it in anybody's power - to feel the whole truth of golden opinions while it is possible to profit by them. She - and how many more - might have ironically said to God with Saint Augustine, "Thou hast counselled a better course than thou hast permitted."
Thomas Hardy, Tess of the D'Urbervilles