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Author Topic: On the subject of Judaism  (Read 971 times) Average Rating: 0
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OrthServ86
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« on: July 07, 2004, 10:48:54 PM »

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Firstly, I would like to elucidate on my term "the religion of the rabbis." That is to say, I refer to the form of Judaism which has her origins in the pharisees (of the various houses, be they Hillel or Shammai or other) and the spread of their influence following the destruction of the temple and the eradication of the Sadducees and Zealots. I use this term also as a source of excluding the religion of Ethiopian Jews, Karaite Jews, and others whose origins are entirely alien to the pharisaic origins of modern day "orthodox jews," haredim and chasidim.

Now, I would like to note to everyone who reads this that what I am requesting is NOT, and I shall repeat, NOT a refutation of the state of Israel, nor of those people whose ethnicity is Hebrew or Jewish (including Khazar, Crimean, Yemenite and other groups/tribes who have adopted rabbinic Judaism in the past), as it is the Christ who teaches through the example of the holy Church that in Him there is not Jew nor Gentile, and we must therefore look to examine and refute the phrenoma and teaching of rabbinic judaism, and not those who ascribe to it nor their actions. That is to say, as God is the remedy of all illnesses of the soul, and no remedy is needed more than for the soul of the religion of the pharisees (whom Christ Himself sought to rebuke on many occasions).

And so, with all this in mind, I make a request. I request that some individuals on this board, preferably those somewhat educated in the religion of the rabbis (if not, then I would encourage one to learn about it), to post here that together we may provide an analysis and refutation, formal and informal -according to each poster's preference - of said religion's doctrine and mindset.

The need for an Orthodox Christian response is greater now than it has been since the time of the early Church; the rise of protestantism and millenialism combined with the (unjust) sufferings of the Jewish people have led to a taboo against any criticism or refutation of Jewish religion. The result has been the spread of two new movements; the bnai noach and messianic Judaism. The former is an outreach by Jews (mainly of the Lubavitch tradition) to non-Jews to proselytize them into "service of God through the noachide commandments" and, by logical default, into service and aggrandissement of the Israelite people (those ascrbing to the Jewish religion) in order to bring about the redemption of the world. The latter is a movement stemming from protestant Christian fancy of Jewish traditions and is composed mainly of Gentiles who, in varying degrees, believe that they resurrect infant Christian by applying their choice of rabbinic traditions (from sources such as the Mishnah and the Talmud) to their protestantism.

The result of this has been a great detriment to the Christian faith, and the movement of the bnai noach only serves to demonstrate even more how vehemently and incomparably the rabbinic religion denies Christ. A response is required and should be produced by we, the one holy catholic and apostolic Church, in the spirit of our fathers such as Justin and Ignatius. Let us seek to serve as a reproach to our great and holy teacher John Chrysostom who stated (and perhaps challenged us with) that the Jews are incapable of being saved.

In peace, and hoping to generate a response,

-Justin
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Augustine
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« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2004, 08:42:17 AM »

Justin,

I think the important thing for everyone to keep in mind is that "Judaism" has been many things, and currently is many things.  It is also worth remebering that despite this multiplicity, what can definately be said of all "Judaisms" in our day, is that they are a reaction to the birth and diffusion of the Church of Christ throughout the world.

Before the advent of Christ and the birth of the Church on Pentecost, there were many "schools" of thought in Judaism - literally the religion of the Judeans/Judahites (with a few Benjaminites and Kohanime/descendents-of-Aaron thrown in), given that the rest of the Tribes had been dispersed throughout the world and assimilated amongst other pagan nations centuries before the birth of our Lord.

Among those schools, were many who entertained ideas (or at least had a great openess to ideas) which would be foundational in the early Church.  That same openess does not exist anymore, since those who persisted as "Jews against Jesus" had to shore up their doctrinal system against the teachings of the Church.  This is important to understand, because if one mistakenly takes modern "Judaism" as a guide for their understanding of "Old Testament religion", they may end up with the misunderstanding that the Church and Her dogmas is some strange imposition upon the ancient Hebrew religion, and had to have gotten it's ideas from some outside source.

This establishment of impediments (by the Rabbis) to stop Jews from coming to faith and being Baptized took many forms.  Whether it be the medieval credo of Maimonides (which is accepted, at least by "Orthodox Jews" as a sort of "mere Judaism", the minimum for belief) which so defined monotheism as to exclude Christian Trinitarianism or the Incarnation, or earlier corruption of sacred texts which contributed to what is now viewed in Judaism as the authoratative Hebrew Bible (the Masoretic text - a text which conspicuously differs with other manuscripts where "prophetic-messianic" texts are concerned, or those which indicate distinctly Christian dogma)...etc., the consequence of them has been all the same - Christ and His Gospel are understood by most modern Jews to be an entirely foreign phenomenon.

What is very interesting though, is that while "officially" Judaism has taken doctrinal postures which exclude Christ, the reality is that in the life of Jews since the birth of the Church has been marked by movements and rabbinical eschatological speculation which show that a lot of those "Christian ideas" are not so alien to the Jewish consciousness, even after centuries of attempts by their leaders to keep them from the Holy Cross.

For example, while the Lubavitcher Hasidim are in reality quite anti-Christian, there are many amongst their number who believe their late Rebbe (a "Rebbe" in Hasidism is a sort of supreme spiritual leader...considered to be a living sage), Menachem Schneerson, is not only the moschiach (Messiah) but...

- that he will return from the dead to redeem the Jews and usher in the "messianc age".

- and many of these Schneerson-Messianists believe the late Rebbe was in fact God Himself!

While the deified messianism of this segment of the Chabad movement is strongly spoken against by other Jews, it's interesting that such ideas still seem possible to extremely Torah-observant, religious Jews, who obviously feel they have some biblical/traditional/mystical justification for their thinking.

Something similar occured a few centuries ago in the case of the failed 17th century messiah, Sabbatai Zevi.  His claim to being messiah, unlike that of Schneerson, was believed by many Jews, all around the world, even outside of his immediate circle of followers.  Also, like Schneerson (in fact, it would seem more so) he was believed to have been Divine.  This, imho, is another manifestation of a wavelength of thought, integral to ancient Judaism, which the Rabbis for all of their effort, were not able to completely purge from the Jewish psyche and esoteric tradition.

Like St.Paul, I still have not lost hope for the redemption of the Jewish people.  There's a strong tradition in Christian eschatology, that the complete conversion of the Jewish people to our blessed Lord, will occur in the final days of this present age (just before His glorious return.)

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« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2004, 06:37:28 PM »

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Thank you Augustine for responding, I am glad that someone did  Smiley .

I am very glad that you expounded upon the notions of the great alterations which have occured in the rabbinic religion since the time of the pharisees, the examples you've cited (namely of Zevi and the Lubavitcher movement) are very illuminating.

I believe you have given the best argument one may give against the religion today referred to collectively as "Judaism," and though I would not mind more people joining in this discussion (addressing more specific issues such as Kabbalah, rabbinic exegesis, etc.), I have a feeling that you are the only taker.

So thank you again, Augustine, and have a good day  Smiley .

Peace be upon all!

-Justin
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« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2010, 04:22:37 PM »

For humor, try reading:

APOSTASY AND APOSTATES FROM JUDAISM, 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=1654&letter=A
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