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Author Topic: Orthodox apparitions  (Read 5485 times) Average Rating: 0
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Wyatt
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« on: October 07, 2010, 08:55:05 PM »

I know that within the [Roman] Catholic Church there have been many instances of apparitions appearing to various [Roman] Catholic Saints. However, do apparitions exist within Eastern Orthodoxy (or Oriental Orthodoxy)? If so, when, where, and to whom did they appear? If they do exist, is it usually the Blessed Virgin Mary who is said to appear, or is it Christ Himself or perhaps a Saint?
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« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2010, 09:21:10 PM »

Just a few, off the top of my head:

 - The visitation of the Mother of God with St John the Evangelist and Apostle Peter to St Sergius of Radonezh and his disciple Micah.

 - The appearance of the Mother of God to St Dimitri Donskoy. The event is recorded in the icon of the Mother of God Bogolyubskaya.

 - The appearance of the Mother of God at the church at Blachernae - the origin of the feast of the Holy Protection of the Mother of God.

 - The appearance of Christ and the Virgin to the fathers of the First Ecumenical Council, which led to the restoration of St Nicholas of Myra as bishop, after he had been ejected from the council and stripped of his episcopal rank for assaulting Arius.
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« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2010, 09:22:55 PM »

A recent apparition of the Mother of God happened this past December in Egypt:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,24926.0.html
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« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2010, 10:40:36 PM »

The appearance of the Archangel Michael at Colossae (depicted in the icon currently adorning my avatar).

There are numerous instances of appearance by saints.  A common theme in hagiography seems to be a previously unknown saint appearing to point out his body's resting place.
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« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2010, 07:30:55 PM »

The Apparition of The Theotokos, St John and others to St. Seraphim of Sarov
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« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2010, 03:37:04 PM »

Hmmm.......interesting.

I know of some people in Orthodoxy who hold that the "Catholic" apparitions were actually demonic in nature.  This, by the way, is not my opinion, because I am waaay too ignorant to have one in these matters.  So, if, and that's a BIG 'if', that is true, how would "Orthodox" apparitions be any different, if indeed they are?
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« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2010, 03:43:28 PM »

Hmmm.......interesting.

I know of some people in Orthodoxy who hold that the "Catholic" apparitions were actually demonic in nature.  This, by the way, is not my opinion, because I am waaay too ignorant to have one in these matters.  So, if, and that's a BIG 'if', that is true, how would "Orthodox" apparitions be any different, if indeed they are?

Perhaps by the messages communicated?

The fathers warn strongly against visions and not to trust them, so it's really kind of a "choose your own adventure" deal. They're good and bad, depending on the needs.
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« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2010, 03:50:17 PM »

You wrote: "Perhaps by the messages communicated?"

Care to elaborate?

And: "They're good and bad, depending on the needs."

So one can sort of pick and choose?  How so?
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« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2010, 04:05:21 PM »

You wrote: "Perhaps by the messages communicated?"

Care to elaborate?

And: "They're good and bad, depending on the needs."

So one can sort of pick and choose?  How so?

Sorry, I was just being cynical. Hopefully someone else can be more constructive.

As for bad apparitions, the Holy Scripture I believe warns us that the evil one appears as an angel of light. Also, I recall the story of a monk who was visiting seemingly by Christ Himself, but that this actually ended up being a demon, so we must always be very careful with visions.
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« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2010, 07:31:54 PM »

Hmmm.......interesting.

I know of some people in Orthodoxy who hold that the "Catholic" apparitions were actually demonic in nature.  This, by the way, is not my opinion, because I am waaay too ignorant to have one in these matters.  So, if, and that's a BIG 'if', that is true, how would "Orthodox" apparitions be any different, if indeed they are?

Perhaps by the messages communicated?

The fathers warn strongly against visions and not to trust them, so it's really kind of a "choose your own adventure" deal. They're good and bad, depending on the needs.

What formally approved Catholic apparitions would the Eastern Orthodox Church say delivered a demonic message?
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« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2010, 08:17:45 PM »

What formally approved Catholic apparitions would the Eastern Orthodox Church say delivered a demonic message?

All you will find are personal opinions. There is no unilateral condemnation of anything that I am aware of. I do know that almost all Orthodox are very uncomfortable with stigmata.

And if someone mentions St. Gregory and stigmata again, I'm officially going to be angry and huffy.
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« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2010, 08:23:44 PM »

What formally approved Catholic apparitions would the Eastern Orthodox Church say delivered a demonic message?

All you will find are personal opinions. There is no unilateral condemnation of anything that I am aware of. I do know that almost all Orthodox are very uncomfortable with stigmata.
Is there any reason for this skepticism of our apparitions other than an aversion to anything Roman?
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« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2010, 08:26:49 PM »

Is there any reason for this skepticism of our apparitions other than an aversion to anything Roman?

I would say that it's more a hesitance to accept anything outside of Orthodoxy. There are different approaches. Some people actively condemn certain things, others have a more passive, "we don't know" attitude. It's the same with Hindu apparitions or anything else.

I have never heard an Orthodox Christian say anything bad about a Roman Catholic in real life. It's all garbage on the internet.

edit: One glaring difference in our approaches seems to be the turn the Roman Catholic visions took after the great schism. The usual examples are Francis of Assisi and Teresa of Ávila. They are much more sentimental in nature, especially with Teresa's being "enraptured" and "in ecstasy" and such. Some of it seems very foreign to our spirituality.
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« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2010, 08:33:19 PM »

The appearance of the Mother of God at the church at Blachernae - the origin of the feast of the Holy Protection of the Mother of God.

I'm not sure that was an "appearance" as much as a "vision" of St. Andrew the Fool.
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« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2010, 09:30:02 PM »

What Holy Orthodoxy say's about the catholic ones, A very Good Read,It Convinced Me.... Grin
The Marian Apparitions: Divine Intervention or Delusion? read all about it here link> .... http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/marian_apparitions.aspx
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« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2010, 12:49:37 AM »

To be fair, Wyatt, the RC does not make any judgment about miracles outside the RC church, so we shouldn't expect the OC to do differently.
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« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2010, 01:58:20 AM »

To be fair, Wyatt, the RC does not make any judgment about miracles outside the RC church, so we shouldn't expect the OC to do differently.

Why Shouldn't Holy Orthodoxy Not examine The Catholic Ones Throughly ,If all this Talk of Unity That suppose to Happen ....What if Some Of them, if not all of the are satanic and the catholic Church is being Guided By them and Not recognizing them as such ,but accepting them as authentic ones ....Orthodoxy and i we would like to know about it before any unity would Happen or not...

The Medjugorije One was Going on for twenty five yrs .maybe more , It was Condemned by a Catholic Bishop in Bosnija ,Maybe a few Others ,But the pope Hasn't Condemed It ,Or i Haven't Heard or read About it that he did....I guess as Long it's a great money Maker For them ,They will milk it as Long as they Can..... Grin
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« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2010, 05:57:46 AM »

But the pope Hasn't Condemed It ,Or i Haven't Heard or read About it that he did....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1052230/Pope-finally-launches-crackdown-worlds-largest-illicit-Catholic-shrine-suspends-dubious-priest.html
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« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2010, 09:52:32 AM »

To be fair, Wyatt, the RC does not make any judgment about miracles outside the RC church, so we shouldn't expect the OC to do differently.
No, but if I heard that the Blessed Virgin Mary appeared at an Eastern Orthodox Church I wouldn't dismiss it outright just because it happened at an Eastern Orthodox Church and not at a Catholic Church. Maybe I am flawed in my thinking but that is the way I see it. I remember reading on the internet about the Virgin Mary Appearing above an Oriental Orthodox Church and I even looked at the pictures and I do not think it is a farce just because it happened at an Oriental Orthodox Church.
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« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2010, 10:40:22 AM »

Right, as an individual you may make your own judgement call on that.  But the RC has not pronounced on it AFAIK.

Ignoring stashko who basically answered his own question without realizing it. Cheesy
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« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2010, 12:54:31 PM »

Right, as an individual you may make your own judgement call on that.  But the RC has not pronounced on it AFAIK.

Ignoring stashko who basically answered his own question without realizing it. Cheesy

Oh !did I answer My Own Question... The struggle In Bosnija at the Medjugorje Site was between the Franciscans and the Cardinal ,In who would control the site and Purse String ,Since He couldn't get his Mitts On the  Purse he condemned it as a False Apparition site......How would Of He Precieved It If He Controled the Site and the money flowing in.....

If the Pope Did Condemn it, He didn't do it loud enough because the site is Active as ever....

Iv'e read articles that the visionaries aren't  living very pious lifes......
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« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2010, 01:22:00 PM »

Stigmata may scare you but when I see an icon, a holy image with human-like bleeding wounds I do not know what to think.
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« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2010, 01:35:48 PM »

Right, as an individual you may make your own judgement call on that.  But the RC has not pronounced on it AFAIK.

Ignoring stashko who basically answered his own question without realizing it. Cheesy

Oh !did I answer My Own Question... The struggle In Bosnija at the Medjugorje Site was between the Franciscans and the Cardinal ,In who would control the site and Purse String ,Since He couldn't get his Mitts On the  Purse he condemned it as a False Apparition site......How would Of He Precieved It If He Controlled the Site and the money flowing in.....

If the Pope Did Condemn it, He didn't do it loud enough because the site is Active as ever....

Iv'e read articles that the visionaries aren't  living very pious lifes......
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« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2010, 08:32:13 PM »

stashko - the Pope does not have to *actively* condemn it. He can simply choose to allow the local Bishop's ruling to stand. 

So when you said "the local Bishop condemned it and the Pope did nothing", you answered your own question. Grin
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« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2010, 09:08:48 PM »

stashko - the Pope does not have to *actively* condemn it. He can simply choose to allow the local Bishop's ruling to stand.  

So when you said "the local Bishop condemned it and the Pope did nothing", you answered your own question. Grin


Since the pope is Your supreme Ruler, Leader ....Wouldn't Your Popes conndemation spoken Loudly and being presistant carry more weight ,than a Meir Cardinals .....So the deception  Continnues ....Interesting.... Grin This is  why Holy Orthodoxy Has to do a through investigation on all Catholic Apparitions ..... Grin
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« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2010, 11:18:55 PM »

stashko - the Pope does not have to *actively* condemn it. He can simply choose to allow the local Bishop's ruling to stand.  

So when you said "the local Bishop condemned it and the Pope did nothing", you answered your own question. Grin


Since the pope is Your supreme Ruler, Leader ....Wouldn't Your Popes conndemation spoken Loudly and being presistant carry more weight ,than a Meir Cardinals .....So the deception  Continnues ....Interesting.... Grin This is  why Holy Orthodoxy Has to do a through investigation on all Catholic Apparitions ..... Grin
The Pope wouldn't need to intervene if the Bishop handled it by making the right decision. The only reason the Pope would intervene would be if the Bishop was in error. The fact that the Pope has remained silent indicates the Bishop must have acted prudently.
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« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2010, 01:17:03 AM »

I don't get it, stashko - when the Pope acts authoritatively, you call him a tyrant, yet when he DOESN'T you get all upset and say he should!

Hmm ... if I didn't know better I'd think you didn't approve of the Papacy at all. Grin
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« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2010, 02:01:07 AM »

How about Garabandal? (Am I spelling it right?)  I haven't heard much about those particular visions, but I am wondering if most Catholics believe in them, or if the Catholic Church has indicated one way or another if they are authentic?
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« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2010, 03:17:34 PM »

No, Garabandal was not approved.
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« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2010, 03:19:44 PM »

FWIW, not sure if the OC does the same, but the RC doesn't require anyone to believe even approved visions like Lourdes or Fatima - just says they're OK to accept if you want to.
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« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2010, 08:13:36 PM »

FWIW, not sure if the OC does the same, but the RC doesn't require anyone to believe even approved visions like Lourdes or Fatima - just says they're OK to accept if you want to.
This is a very good point. Private revelations (such as apparitions) are nowhere near on par with public revelation such as Holy Scripture or Sacred Tradition.
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« Reply #31 on: October 31, 2010, 10:25:23 PM »

FWIW, not sure if the OC does the same, but the RC doesn't require anyone to believe even approved visions like Lourdes or Fatima - just says they're OK to accept if you want to.

When I was Roman Catholic, I did not accept any of the apparitions and I was considered less than Catholic. I think that claim could be better made if the RCC did not attach feast days to them. Namely, I am thinking of "Divine Mercy Sunday."

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« Reply #32 on: October 31, 2010, 11:19:30 PM »

True, though Divine Mercy Sunday is a celebration of the mercy of God, which you could acknowledge without accepting St Faustina's visions.
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« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2010, 11:46:25 PM »

True, though Divine Mercy Sunday is a celebration of the mercy of God, which you could acknowledge without accepting St Faustina's visions.

Why Not just accept Pascha Christs suffering ,Crucifixion,Death ,and Resurrection, as the Feast of Feasts as  the Greatest Mercy...Why would a Questionable apparition of Divine Mercy ,try or has for the catholics surplanted Pascha as the Greatest Mercy ,When Christ from Scripture tell us Greater Love Has No Man Than to lay down his life for his fellow man,,,Just believe how great Christs love is ,because he layed his life down for all of mankind..Nothing is greater than that ...Catholics are decieved when they chase after these questionable apparitions...un- known to our Holy Fathers Faith once delivered...
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« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2010, 11:54:07 PM »

Not your concern, stashko.  You're not RC so you don't have to worry about it.
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« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2010, 12:11:04 AM »

Not your concern, stashko.  You're not RC so you don't have to worry about it.

Ok! Keep Your Apparitions..But i say No unity ......we have nothing in common Our Lord and Saviour Jesus and The Holy Theotokos and yours of Apparitions, Are not the same.... Grin
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« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2010, 12:35:53 AM »


What formally approved Catholic apparitions would the Eastern Orthodox Church say delivered a demonic message?

The "consecration" of Russia to the "Immaculate Heart" of Mary, and the promise of the "conversion of Russia" make no sense from an Orthodox point of view. Russia has been Christian for a thousand years. The RCC has no business "consecrating" places that don't want/need to be consecrated, especially if they fall outside Rome's "sphere of influence," for lack of a better term.

If anything, such messages and actions are hindrances to re-union.
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« Reply #37 on: November 01, 2010, 12:46:55 AM »

Since He couldn't get his Mitts On the  Purse he condemned it as a False Apparition site......

That is an opinion (yours), not a fact.
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« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2010, 11:17:23 AM »


What formally approved Catholic apparitions would the Eastern Orthodox Church say delivered a demonic message?

The "consecration" of Russia to the "Immaculate Heart" of Mary, and the promise of the "conversion of Russia" make no sense from an Orthodox point of view. Russia has been Christian for a thousand years. The RCC has no business "consecrating" places that don't want/need to be consecrated, especially if they fall outside Rome's "sphere of influence," for lack of a better term.

If anything, such messages and actions are hindrances to re-union.
I am not well versed in apparitions, so forgive me if I am wrong, but wasn't the "conversion of Russia" a message of Fatima shortly after Russia fell to Communism and thus, at least officially, became an atheistic regime?
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« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2010, 11:27:56 AM »

Yes, and Lucia, Jacinta and Francisco (the three little children who saw the visions) were repeatedly threatened by the atheistic government to renounce what they claimed the "Lady" had said.

The messages were very much anti-atheist, NOT anti-Orthodox.
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« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2010, 12:19:07 PM »

Yes, and Lucia, Jacinta and Francisco (the three little children who saw the visions) were repeatedly threatened by the atheistic government to renounce what they claimed the "Lady" had said.

The messages were very much anti-atheist, NOT anti-Orthodox.

It course it was anti Holy Orthodoxy .....Didn't this Lady Of Yours know How ,Greatly the Blessed Theotokos was loved And Honored In Russia/Ukrainia and all the Orthodox Countries....Your lady versus Our Blessed Theotokos ,Your's definitely is the Fake one....We believe in the Scriptual Holy Blessed Theotokos who points to Christ and says do what he tells you....
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« Reply #41 on: November 01, 2010, 12:24:37 PM »

Yes, and Lucia, Jacinta and Francisco (the three little children who saw the visions) were repeatedly threatened by the atheistic government to renounce what they claimed the "Lady" had said.

The messages were very much anti-atheist, NOT anti-Orthodox.

It course it was anti Holy Orthodoxy .....Didn't this Lady Of Yours know How ,Greatly the Blessed Theotokos was loved And Honored In Russia/Ukrainia and all the Orthodox Countries....Your lady versus Our Blessed Theotokos ,Your's definitely is the Fake one....We believe in the Scriptual Holy Blessed Theotokos who points to Christ and says do what he tells you....
Yes and Communism did not happen.
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« Reply #42 on: November 01, 2010, 12:42:40 PM »

Yes, and Lucia, Jacinta and Francisco (the three little children who saw the visions) were repeatedly threatened by the atheistic government to renounce what they claimed the "Lady" had said.

The messages were very much anti-atheist, NOT anti-Orthodox.

It course it was anti Holy Orthodoxy .....Didn't this Lady Of Yours know How ,Greatly the Blessed Theotokos was loved And Honored In Russia/Ukrainia and all the Orthodox Countries....Your lady versus Our Blessed Theotokos ,Your's definitely is the Fake one....We believe in the Scriptual Holy Blessed Theotokos who points to Christ and says do what he tells you....

Interestingly enough, the Blessed Virgin Mary was correct because Communism did fall in Russia and Russian Orthodoxy is fine now. So, apparently Our Lady of Fatima doesn't have a problem with Eastern Orthodoxy. Perhaps you are wrong in your assessment that Catholics and Eastern Orthodox venerate different ladies. Our Lady was not anti-Eastern Orthodox, but you are certainly very much anti-Catholic for stating rude polemical things such as that we do not venerate the same Virgin Mary. Do you believe we worship a different God than you do too?
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« Reply #43 on: November 01, 2010, 01:16:39 PM »

I mentioned before We don't worship the same Most Holy Trinity....Our confession of faith is not the same as yours. ....We Orthodox worship what we confess in our  Original Creed ....So it isn't the same ...



Yes, and Lucia, Jacinta and Francisco (the three little children who saw the visions) were repeatedly threatened by the atheistic government to renounce what they claimed the "Lady" had said.

The messages were very much anti-atheist, NOT anti-Orthodox.

It course it was anti Holy Orthodoxy .....Didn't this Lady Of Yours know How ,Greatly the Blessed Theotokos was loved And Honored In Russia/Ukrainia and all the Orthodox Countries....Your lady versus Our Blessed Theotokos ,Your's definitely is the Fake one....We believe in the Scriptual Holy Blessed Theotokos who points to Christ and says do what he tells you....

Interestingly enough, the Blessed Virgin Mary was correct because Communism did fall in Russia and Russian Orthodoxy is fine now. So, apparently Our Lady of Fatima doesn't have a problem with Eastern Orthodoxy. Perhaps you are wrong in your assessment that Catholics and Eastern Orthodox venerate different ladies. Our Lady was not anti-Eastern Orthodox, but you are certainly very much anti-Catholic for stating rude polemical things such as that we do not venerate the same Virgin Mary. Do you believe we worship a different God than you do too?
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« Reply #44 on: November 01, 2010, 01:18:15 PM »

I mentioned before We don't worship the same Most holy Trinity....Our confession of faith is not the same as yours. ....We Orthodox worship what we confess in our  Original Creed ....So it isn't the same ...
So having the proper understanding of God is necessary for worshiping God? If that is the case then none of us worship God because none of us can fully grasp Him with our finite minds.
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