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Question: In Acts 13:33, when Paul says that God begets Christ, Paul probably means  (Voting closed: June 25, 2013, 10:04:08 PM)
God begets Christ, who arises as the Messiah to save Israel - 2 (66.7%)
God begets Christ when he raises him from the dead - 1 (33.3%)
Total Voters: 3

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Author Topic: How does Paul say God begets Christ in Acts 13:33?  (Read 1386 times)
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rakovsky
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« on: September 30, 2010, 10:04:08 PM »

Acts 13:23-24 says that God promised that He would raise up for Israel a Saviour, then John preached the baptism of repentence before His coming, and then God raised up for Israel a Saviour -Jesus.

The Greek says:

Quote
23τούτου ὁ θεὸς ἀπὸ τοῦ σπέρματος κατ' ἐπαγγελίαν ἤγαγεν τῷ Ἰσραὴλ σωτῆρα Ἰησοῦν,
24προκηρύξαντος Ἰωάννου πρὸ προσώπου τῆς εἰσόδου αὐτοῦ βάπτισμα μετανοίας παντὶ τῷ λαῷ Ἰσραήλ.


Next, God says that he fulfilled the promise to raise up Christ:

Quote
32 καὶ ἡμεῖς ὑμᾶς εὐαγγελιζόμεθα τὴν πρὸς τοὺς πατέρας ἐπαγγελίαν γενομένην,

33 ὅτι ταύτην ὁ θεὸς ἐκπεπλήρωκεν τοῖς τέκνοις [αὐτῶν] ἡμῖν ἀναστήσας Ἰησοῦν, ὡς καὶ ἐν τῷ ψαλμῷ γέγραπται τῷ δευτέρῳ, Υἱός μου εἶ σύ, ἐγὼ σήμερον γεγέννηκά σε.


Next in Acts 13:34, does Paul say that Isaiah 55:3 ("I will give you the sure mercies of David") is another place where God promises to raise Christ up, or does Paul simply and separately add that Isaiah 55:3 applies to God's prediction that He would raise Christ from the dead?

Quote
34 ὅτι δὲ ἀνέστησεν αὐτὸν ἐκ νεκρῶν μηκέτι μέλλοντα ὑποστρέφειν εἰς διαφθοράν, οὕτως εἴρηκεν ὅτι Δώσω ὑμῖν τὰ ὅσια Δαυὶδ τὰ πιστά.


The King James Version, a common text in the Orthodox Church, translates Acts 13:33 to say that Jesus was "raised up again", which means "resurrected."

Quote
23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,

33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.


The New King James Version, whose text style the Orthodox Study Bible uses, appears to distinguish Jesus arising after John preached his coming (Acts 23 and 33), from Acts 34, which distinctly talks about God raising Christ from the dead.

Quote
23 From this man’s seed, according to the promise, God raised up for Israel a Savior—Jesus—
24 after John had first preached, before His coming, the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.
32 And we declare to you glad tidings—that promise which was made to the fathers.
33 God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm:
      ‘ You are My Son,
      Today I have begotten You.’

34 And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus:
      ‘ I will give you the sure mercies of David.’

« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 10:07:29 PM by rakovsky » Logged
SolEX01
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« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2010, 12:45:58 AM »

Acts doesn't have 33 or 34 chapters.   Angry
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deusveritasest
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« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2010, 01:12:29 AM »

Acts doesn't have 33 or 34 chapters.   Angry

Seriously?

The context doesn't make it clear that the last sentence was a slip up referring back to Acts 13:33-34?
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rakovsky
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« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2010, 01:14:23 AM »

Acts doesn't have 33 or 34 chapters.   Angry

Yes. I meant Acts 13:23,33-34 instead of Acts 23 , Acts 33 , and Acts 34.
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« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2010, 01:33:51 AM »

I say it refers to the Resurrection, because that's the context Paul is speaking of--all the immediately surrounding verses refer to the Resurrection.
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rakovsky
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« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2010, 11:45:04 AM »

I say it refers to the Resurrection, because that's the context Paul is speaking of--all the immediately surrounding verses refer to the Resurrection.

What I meant was, What is the better translation of this verse- the KJV or the NKJV?
« Last Edit: October 01, 2010, 11:45:42 AM by rakovsky » Logged
Rufus
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« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2010, 01:07:24 PM »

I say it refers to the Resurrection, because that's the context Paul is speaking of--all the immediately surrounding verses refer to the Resurrection.

What I meant was, What is the better translation of this verse- the KJV or the NKJV?

Ohhhhh... The NKJV, I guess--the word "again" appears nowhere in the Greek text, although you could conceivably interpret anastesas that way, since the prefix ana- can mean "again." However, this isn't the normal sense of the word.
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SolEX01
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« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2010, 03:47:57 PM »

Acts doesn't have 33 or 34 chapters.   Angry

Yes. I meant Acts 13:23,33-34 instead of Acts 23 , Acts 33 , and Acts 34.

If you're proof-texting, at least make your content easier to follow.   Forgive me....  angel
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rakovsky
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« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2011, 09:26:12 PM »

Deus.V.E.:

Acts doesn't have 33 or 34 chapters.   Angry

Seriously?

The context doesn't make it clear that the last sentence was a slip up referring back to Acts 13:33-34?
Thanks for the "save" here. Smiley



SolEX01,
 
Quote
If you're proof-texting, at least make your content easier to follow. Forgive me....  angel
It's ok, thanks for thinking about it. Yes, it's good to be more precise when proof-texting, since I meant Acts 13:23,33-34, not "(Acts 23 and 33), from Acts 34", as you n' Deus.V. figured out  Grin angel

All the best.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 09:26:40 PM by rakovsky » Logged
rakovsky
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« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2011, 09:29:00 PM »

Rufus,

In my opinion on closer inspection it appears Paul isn't referring to the Resurrection when he writes about begetting Christ in verse 33, because:

1) The normal meaning of begetting is creating, and in verses 32-33, St Paul talks about a promise to FATHERS to bring a Messiah, and fulfilling the promise for CHILDREN with BEGETTING the SON.

2) When St Paul talks about the Resurrection in the next verse, verse 34, he begins by saying "And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead". This opening phrase appears to separate verse 34 from the previous verses by stating that verse 34 is about the Resurrection. If verse 34's topic being the Resurrection separates it from verse 33, then verse 33 wouldn't be about the same Resurrection from the dead.

3) The normal meaning of the term in verse 33 for "raised" means simply that, as in "raised up a leader", rather than "raised again", which would mean Resurrection.

4. Verse 22 uses raised up in the sense of raise up a leader: "he raised up unto them David to be their king;"

You commented that Resurrection is "the context Paul is speaking of--all the immediately surrounding verses refer to the Resurrection."

But that's not true. Verses 17-23 summarizes Israel's being chosen, suffering, the end of the suffering, its need for a leader and God's promises to raise up one.

Then verses 23-31 summarize Jesus being raised as a savior from David's seed when John preached, and then Jesus' rejection, death, and resurrection.

And then verses 32-33 comes to the timeline of the current moment of Paul's talk by saying: "And we declare unto you glad tidings". It talks about fulfilling the promise to the fathers, which Paul had earlier focused on as a promise for a leader and raising up from David's seed, and that's when it talks about begetting.

It's only in the next verse, 34, that Paul distinguishes the Resurrection by starting with "and as concerning that he raised Him up from the dead".

So in my opinion the context is a list of story lines about choosing a people, raising a leader, and then the leader's biography. And Jesus being begotten, either in the sense of being raised up the first time, the incarnation, adoptionism, and/or the metaphysical act of God begetting Christ, sounds like the meaning of "raised up" in verse 33.

By the way, I have a certain sense when St Paul uses the terms raised up as a leader and as a Resurrection that he may be associating the two terms.

Thank you for answering my question about which translation is better, the NKJV or the KJV here:

Quote
Ohhhhh... The NKJV, I guess--the word "again" appears nowhere in the Greek text, although you could conceivably interpret anastesas that way, since the prefix ana- can mean "again." However, this isn't the normal sense of the word."

I understand your "ohhh" here, because when I listed the KJV and NKJV and put in bold the word "again", I didn't explain that it was something I especially wanted to find out about by posting the cites including in Greek. Like Solex said, it's better to be more precise.

Your answer helped to solve the problem I think, because it shows that the term here isn't Resurrected, or raised up again, which would suggest resurrection because it would be a second time after he became a leader.

Peace.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 09:33:42 PM by rakovsky » Logged
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« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2011, 10:37:11 PM »

I'll wait until June 24, 2013 before I cast my vote Wink
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rakovsky
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« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2011, 11:29:04 PM »

I'll wait until June 24, 2013 before I cast my vote Wink

hehe
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« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2011, 12:35:07 AM »

While I believe the begetting is referring to being begotten by God to be the Messiah, the resurrection is Christ's victory over death and the sure sign that He is the one begotten. The context of that Psalm is proving Christ to be the One who is begotten is receiving the heathen for an inheritance, possessing the ends of the earth, and ruling and judging them.

Psalms 2:7-9 (KJV)
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

The resurrection, as Christ's victory, is the sure sign of this.

Acts 13:29-35
And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. But God raised him from the dead: And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

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And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

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