Author Topic: Is "the Catechism of the Catholic Church" Ex Cathedra "Infallible"?  (Read 5242 times)

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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Is "the Catechism of the Catholic Church" Ex Cathedra "Infallible"?
« Reply #45 on: September 30, 2010, 03:07:48 PM »
Oh, and Isa, once again, do you know where I can get a copy of the icon you posted?
no, but I'm lookng.
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Offline Ionnis

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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Is "the Catechism of the Catholic Church" Ex Cathedra "Infallible"?
« Reply #47 on: September 30, 2010, 03:53:05 PM »
If you want to discuss Ialmisry's original question regarding the Catechism of the Catholic Church, fine and dandy.  Let's not get sidetracked, however, into debating Ialmisry's practice of calling the Roman Catholic Church the "Vatican's church."  We already have a number of threads devoted to that age-old argument; we don't need another.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 03:53:23 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline elijahmaria

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Re: Is "the Catechism of the Catholic Church" Ex Cathedra "Infallible"?
« Reply #48 on: September 30, 2010, 04:10:15 PM »
If you want to discuss Ialmisry's original question regarding the Catechism of the Catholic Church, fine and dandy.  Let's not get sidetracked, however, into debating Ialmisry's practice of calling the Roman Catholic Church the "Vatican's church."  We already have a number of threads devoted to that age-old argument; we don't need another.

Perhaps if he called it the Vatican Catechism we could all have a good laugh, spit in our hands, and move on!!

M.

Offline Papist

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Re: Is "the Catechism of the Catholic Church" Ex Cathedra "Infallible"?
« Reply #49 on: September 30, 2010, 06:35:59 PM »
If you want to discuss Ialmisry's original question regarding the Catechism of the Catholic Church, fine and dandy.  Let's not get sidetracked, however, into debating Ialmisry's practice of calling the Roman Catholic Church the "Vatican's church."  We already have a number of threads devoted to that age-old argument; we don't need another.

Perhaps if he called it the Vatican Catechism we could all have a good laugh, spit in our hands, and move on!!

M.
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Offline akimel

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Re: Is "the Catechism of the Catholic Church" Ex Cathedra "Infallible"?
« Reply #50 on: October 03, 2010, 02:24:41 AM »
This, quite frankly, is a silly question.  Anyone who knows anything about Catholic theology knows that the CCC is not infallible, i.e., irreformable, in all of its details.  How could it be? 

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Is "the Catechism of the Catholic Church" Ex Cathedra "Infallible"?
« Reply #51 on: October 03, 2010, 02:36:23 AM »
This, quite frankly, is a silly question.  Anyone who knows anything about Catholic theology knows that the CCC is not infallible, i.e., irreformable, in all of its details.  How could it be? 
We're not the ones who believe the silly claims of Pastor Aeternus.

It is issued by the same authority which issued the documents of Vatican II, of comparable length: what part/detail of them do you not hold infallible?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline elijahmaria

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Re: Is "the Catechism of the Catholic Church" Ex Cathedra "Infallible"?
« Reply #52 on: October 03, 2010, 01:37:34 PM »
This, quite frankly, is a silly question.  Anyone who knows anything about Catholic theology knows that the CCC is not infallible, i.e., irreformable, in all of its details.  How could it be? 
We're not the ones who believe the silly claims of Pastor Aeternus.

It is issued by the same authority which issued the documents of Vatican II, of comparable length: what part/detail of them do you not hold infallible?

Silly claims or not the Catholic Church has a way of understanding her own teachings and ways of doing things.  You do not have the tools to do the same, and you would not use them if you did because you lack a certain inclination.  This is not a criticism of you personally.  It is simply the way of things at the moment.

NO Orthodox BODY...since I arrived at reading this Forum seems to have a clue as to what infallibility is all about. 

The truth is the truth.  It is revealed.  Only the Triune God ever knows revealed truth as it truly is.  The rest of us muddle along, best way we can.

Infallibility does not measure the truth or falsehood of some thing.

The various means of knowing how certain we can be that a given statement or other is actually part of that truth is called infallibility.

Sometimes a truth can only be understood to be true when taken in the WHOLENESS or CATHOLICITY of a set of truths or the entirety of revelation...as it is humanly possible for us to know it.

So you are nit picking on a dog that has no nits.

And if he did, you are too myopic in your vision to actually see them.

Father is correct.  All that you are suggesting here has NOTHING to do with Catholic teaching in any way.

It is, as I have noted, a waste of time.   You don't have the proper tool-kit and would not use it, if you could find one.

You simply do not have the nous.

Mary


Offline akimel

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Re: Is "the Catechism of the Catholic Church" Ex Cathedra "Infallible"?
« Reply #53 on: October 03, 2010, 01:44:37 PM »
This, quite frankly, is a silly question.  Anyone who knows anything about Catholic theology knows that the CCC is not infallible, i.e., irreformable, in all of its details.  How could it be? 
We're not the ones who believe the silly claims of Pastor Aeternus.

It is issued by the same authority which issued the documents of Vatican II, of comparable length: what part/detail of them do you not hold infallible?

You have made more than a few turns around the apologetics block, so I know you know why the Catholic Catechism promulgated by Pope John Paul II is not irreformable in all of its details.  If you honestly don't know, then all I can do is recommend a couple of books and articles on the Catholic understanding of infallibility.  A good place to begin is Cardinal Newman's Letter to the Duke of Norfolk.  

But if you want the short answer:  the Catholic Catechism is not a dogmatic definition, though it certainly contains any number of dogmatic definitions within it.      

Offline elijahmaria

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Re: Is "the Catechism of the Catholic Church" Ex Cathedra "Infallible"?
« Reply #54 on: October 03, 2010, 03:26:24 PM »
This, quite frankly, is a silly question.  Anyone who knows anything about Catholic theology knows that the CCC is not infallible, i.e., irreformable, in all of its details.  How could it be? 
We're not the ones who believe the silly claims of Pastor Aeternus.

It is issued by the same authority which issued the documents of Vatican II, of comparable length: what part/detail of them do you not hold infallible?

You have made more than a few turns around the apologetics block, so I know you know why the Catholic Catechism promulgated by Pope John Paul II is not irreformable in all of its details.  If you honestly don't know, then all I can do is recommend a couple of books and articles on the Catholic understanding of infallibility.  A good place to begin is Cardinal Newman's Letter to the Duke of Norfolk.  

But if you want the short answer:  the Catholic Catechism is not a dogmatic definition, though it certainly contains any number of dogmatic definitions within it.      

If I might expand on your comments here by saying that there is an Apostolic authority exercised in the Catholic Church.  It is exercised at the level of the papacy, of the Synod, of the individual Bishop, and at the Conciliar level, singly and in combination.   

Apostolic authority may be exercised in a pastoral exercise of authority or as a dogmatic exercise of authority.

The CCC is an exercise of apostolic authority at the papal and synodal and episcopal levels to be used as a pastoral tool for the promulgation of the faith.

That is what is, all other claims to the contrary notwithstanding.

Mary