Author Topic: Having trouble believing God is good  (Read 3246 times)

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Offline beebert

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #135 on: March 28, 2017, 10:58:19 AM »
Also, it is not a question on if they worship the same God, God is with every person, whether they view God in a corrupted Protestant way or not. Whether they are an atheist or not. God never turns away from us, but it is us who must find the truth and struggle through the Church. The fullness of the church is in Orthodoxy, and we can come to know God properly through it.
I would be so happy if I could be convinced that what you say is true... But God turned away from Saul for example... He seems to have left Esau...  And as I quoted the passage above... Scripture really indicates that God absolutely hates sinners.
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Offline Alxandra

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #136 on: March 28, 2017, 10:58:55 AM »
Thanks I will watch it and speak to the priest...

I just wonder... How can I view passages like this one?

The Most High himself hates sinners, and he will punish them. 7 Give to good people, but do not help sinners.

From Sirach...

Do you have your Orthodox study bible with you? It is not for us to interpret dear friend, read the Orthodox notes given to us to help us understand, ask your priest and search to find its correct and intended meaning instead of creating our own understanding which are so often false. Unfortunately Protestants interpret the bible however they want and it is the cause of many of their problems.
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Offline Alxandra

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #137 on: March 28, 2017, 11:00:51 AM »
Also, it is not a question on if they worship the same God, God is with every person, whether they view God in a corrupted Protestant way or not. Whether they are an atheist or not. God never turns away from us, but it is us who must find the truth and struggle through the Church. The fullness of the church is in Orthodoxy, and we can come to know God properly through it.
I would be so happy if I could be convinced that what you say is true... But God turned away from Saul for example... He seems to have left Esau...  And as I quoted the passage above... Scripture really indicates that God absolutely hates sinners.

As I said, seek help from the church, from the help the church gives us, and from your priest to read the bible the way we should, and not however we think or interpret it to be :) 
"And if the man is the head of the family then the woman is the heart, and this heart is made by God that He may find rest in it”
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Blog http://the-woman-is-the-heart.tumblr.com/

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Offline beebert

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #138 on: March 28, 2017, 11:02:45 AM »
Thanks I will watch it and speak to the priest...

I just wonder... How can I view passages like this one?

The Most High himself hates sinners, and he will punish them. 7 Give to good people, but do not help sinners.

From Sirach...

Do you have your Orthodox study bible with you? It is not for us to interpret dear friend, read the Orthodox notes given to us to help us understand, ask your priest and search to find its correct and intended meaning instead of creating our own understanding which are so often false. Unfortunately Protestants interpret the bible however they want and it is the cause of many of their problems.
I unfortunately don't have an orthodox study bible. I will get one though... I just mean... It seems so obvious in a way what it means. If the author says God hates sinners... Then that is probably what the author meant... It seems so to me at least...
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

Offline Alxandra

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #139 on: March 28, 2017, 11:05:35 AM »
God never turns away from us, here is another helpful video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WosgwLekgn8

As you can see, he demonstrates with the chairs that Protestants believe God turned away from humanity, but the truth is God loves us and has never turned away from us.

Protestants and many other denominations are misguided in many ways that harm peoples faith. That is why we need the true original church to correct our false ideas and protect us from delusion so we can struggle to see how much God loves us and struggle more to be united to God :) But we can only do this with the help and healing of the church.
"And if the man is the head of the family then the woman is the heart, and this heart is made by God that He may find rest in it”
+Elder Arsenie Papacioc

Blog http://the-woman-is-the-heart.tumblr.com/

Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/thewomanistheheart/

Offline beebert

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #140 on: March 28, 2017, 11:14:59 AM »
God never turns away from us, here is another helpful video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WosgwLekgn8

As you can see, he demonstrates with the chairs that Protestants believe God turned away from humanity, but the truth is God loves us and has never turned away from us.

Protestants and many other denominations are misguided in many ways that harm peoples faith. That is why we need the true original church to correct our false ideas and protect us from delusion so we can struggle to see how much God loves us and struggle more to be united to God :) But we can only do this with the help and healing of the church.
Thanks Alxandra...
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

Offline Alxandra

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #141 on: March 28, 2017, 11:17:42 AM »
God never turns away from us, here is another helpful video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WosgwLekgn8

As you can see, he demonstrates with the chairs that Protestants believe God turned away from humanity, but the truth is God loves us and has never turned away from us.

Protestants and many other denominations are misguided in many ways that harm peoples faith. That is why we need the true original church to correct our false ideas and protect us from delusion so we can struggle to see how much God loves us and struggle more to be united to God :) But we can only do this with the help and healing of the church.
Thanks Alxandra...

I hope your heart can find peace soon dear friend :)
"And if the man is the head of the family then the woman is the heart, and this heart is made by God that He may find rest in it”
+Elder Arsenie Papacioc

Blog http://the-woman-is-the-heart.tumblr.com/

Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/thewomanistheheart/

Offline eddybear

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #142 on: March 28, 2017, 11:22:28 AM »
10 posts have happened since I started drafting this. I hope it's still relevant.

Okay... But what should I do with my horrible calvinistic tendencies? Would you guys call calvinists deluded? Would you call them christians? I just for some reason believe in calvinism and can't seem to escape from it , and at the same time I am enormously disgusted by it, and find it the greatest evil on earth. I am just enormously disgusted by preachers like John Macarthur and John Piper and Mark Driscoll... But then this fear arises within me and doesn't go away and it is even strengthened by the reading of scripture: That these preachers might actually be right...
When I first came to Christ in my student days and was baptised, I attended an Anglican church that was popular with students, and which was Calvinistic. Of course in those early days I knew very little about Christianity, so I absorbed what I was taught. I believed it, then and for many years afterwards, and stayed largely within the Reformed tradition when it came to what I read and trusted. But bit by bit I started to explore, to see that there were other points of view, held by people who genuinely loved the Lord. I can't put my finger on an exact time when I switched from Calvinist to non-Calvinist, it was a gradual process. What is important though is that I was a Christian all that time. I loved God, and sought to follow Him as best I could, even while some of my beliefs about Him were seriously distorted. (Some of course were correct, such as the Trinity, the Incarnation by Virgin Birth, Christ's resurrection and so on) Nowadays my views are somewhat less distorted, and it distresses me when I see other Christians still enslaved by the falsehoods of Calvinism, but I still think of them as Christians. And when I get upset at preachers spreading Calvinism, I have to remember that I used to do the same, in my own little way, and yet the Lord showed me mercy in my ignorance, and has led me further into the truth.

As for what to do about the fact you suffer from Calvinistic tendencies, could I offer a some pieces of practical advice:

1) Immerse yourself in what the Orthodox Church teaches. You can't learn the truth by studying falsehoods in order to oppose them, you can only learn the truth by learning the truth. Keep speaking to your priest, keep attending Liturgy. (By the way, if the temptation comes to mind that you are too sinful to attend, remember that Jesus came not for the healthy, but for the sick. He wants you to come to Him, whatever state you may think you are in).

2) If you come across a Calvinist article online or elsewhere, walk away from it. Don't try and argue against it, just walk away, at least for now. There may come a time when you are able to argue against it without it pulling you down, but time hasn't arrived yet.

3) There came a time when I had to repent of intellectual pride. The Calvinist theology I had learnt had gone to my head and puffed me up, and I needed to repent. It was painful, but necessary. If you find that that applies to you as well, that is the road to take.


There are many many Christians who have been healed of false ideas about who God is, and there is every reason to believe that you can be healed by His grace.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 11:24:15 AM by eddybear »

Offline Alxandra

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #143 on: March 28, 2017, 11:25:10 AM »
10 posts have happened since I started drafting this. I hope it's still relevant.

Okay... But what should I do with my horrible calvinistic tendencies? Would you guys call calvinists deluded? Would you call them christians? I just for some reason believe in calvinism and can't seem to escape from it , and at the same time I am enormously disgusted by it, and find it the greatest evil on earth. I am just enormously disgusted by preachers like John Macarthur and John Piper and Mark Driscoll... But then this fear arises within me and doesn't go away and it is even strengthened by the reading of scripture: That these preachers might actually be right...

As for what to do about the fact you suffer from Calvinistic tendencies, could I offer a some pieces of practical advice:

1) Immerse yourself in what the Orthodox Church teaches. You can't learn the truth by studying falsehoods in order to oppose them, you can only learn the truth by learning the truth. Keep speaking to your priest, keep attending Liturgy. (By the way, if the temptation comes to mind that you are too sinful to attend, remember that Jesus came not for the healthy, but for the sick. He wants you to come to Him, whatever state you may think you are in).

2) If you come across a Calvinist article online or elsewhere, walk away from it. Don't try and argue against it, just walk away, at least for now. There may come a time when you are able to argue against it without it pulling you down, but time hasn't arrived yet.

3) There came a time when I had to repent of intellectual pride. The Calvinist theology I had learnt had gone to my head and puffed me up, and I needed to repent. It was painful, but necessary. If you find that that applies to you as well, that is the road to take.


There are many many Christians who have been healed of false ideas about who God is, and there is every reason to believe that you can be healed by His grace.


So very important and true!
"And if the man is the head of the family then the woman is the heart, and this heart is made by God that He may find rest in it”
+Elder Arsenie Papacioc

Blog http://the-woman-is-the-heart.tumblr.com/

Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/thewomanistheheart/

Offline beebert

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #144 on: March 28, 2017, 11:36:11 AM »
10 posts have happened since I started drafting this. I hope it's still relevant.

Okay... But what should I do with my horrible calvinistic tendencies? Would you guys call calvinists deluded? Would you call them christians? I just for some reason believe in calvinism and can't seem to escape from it , and at the same time I am enormously disgusted by it, and find it the greatest evil on earth. I am just enormously disgusted by preachers like John Macarthur and John Piper and Mark Driscoll... But then this fear arises within me and doesn't go away and it is even strengthened by the reading of scripture: That these preachers might actually be right...
When I first came to Christ in my student days and was baptised, I attended an Anglican church that was popular with students, and which was Calvinistic. Of course in those early days I knew very little about Christianity, so I absorbed what I was taught. I believed it, then and for many years afterwards, and stayed largely within the Reformed tradition when it came to what I read and trusted. But bit by bit I started to explore, to see that there were other points of view, held by people who genuinely loved the Lord. I can't put my finger on an exact time when I switched from Calvinist to non-Calvinist, it was a gradual process. What is important though is that I was a Christian all that time. I loved God, and sought to follow Him as best I could, even while some of my beliefs about Him were seriously distorted. (Some of course were correct, such as the Trinity, the Incarnation by Virgin Birth, Christ's resurrection and so on) Nowadays my views are somewhat less distorted, and it distresses me when I see other Christians still enslaved by the falsehoods of Calvinism, but I still think of them as Christians. And when I get upset at preachers spreading Calvinism, I have to remember that I used to do the same, in my own little way, and yet the Lord showed me mercy in my ignorance, and has led me further into the truth.

As for what to do about the fact you suffer from Calvinistic tendencies, could I offer a some pieces of practical advice:

1) Immerse yourself in what the Orthodox Church teaches. You can't learn the truth by studying falsehoods in order to oppose them, you can only learn the truth by learning the truth. Keep speaking to your priest, keep attending Liturgy. (By the way, if the temptation comes to mind that you are too sinful to attend, remember that Jesus came not for the healthy, but for the sick. He wants you to come to Him, whatever state you may think you are in).

2) If you come across a Calvinist article online or elsewhere, walk away from it. Don't try and argue against it, just walk away, at least for now. There may come a time when you are able to argue against it without it pulling you down, but time hasn't arrived yet.

3) There came a time when I had to repent of intellectual pride. The Calvinist theology I had learnt had gone to my head and puffed me up, and I needed to repent. It was painful, but necessary. If you find that that applies to you as well, that is the road to take.


There are many many Christians who have been healed of false ideas about who God is, and there is every reason to believe that you can be healed by His grace.
Thank you very much eddybear. This was helpful!
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

Offline coptic orthodox boy

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #145 on: March 28, 2017, 05:00:35 PM »
Well, then you have a psychiatric problem underlying your thoughts.  That's a medical issue that requires constant relationship with a medical professional, perhaps even medication!

Let a physician help you, and then allow yourself to accept the Love and Comfort of God, and that all these stories should be interpreted through that lens, and not by itself.

Just an FYI, this post was meant for beebert, not cob

Mina

Haha.  I think I do have psychiatric problems as well.  I willfully go to judo/wrasslin' and Brazilian jiujitsu a few times throughout the week and have my body thrown around like a rag doll and twisted up like a pretzel; and I pay good money for it too. :o

Recently, I've started taking boxing classes.  Very therapeutic. 

I congratulate you on an excellent choice of hobbies.


Got a heavy bag hanging in the basement.  Purchased Bas Rutten's Workout CD a few years ago.  The CD has six 30 minute workouts where he calls out combinations and I give the heavy bag a heck of a beating a few times a week haha.  No more sparring however, I'm getting old (31 hahahahaha); gotta keep that mind fresh (and my face purdy for the ladies) but it is fun to beat up the heavy bag.

Bas is the 'Boss.'  I don't think I could keep up with his routine, since I'm pushing 50.
Sparring is actually easier than working a bag.  Too much time on the bag generally means sore arms the next day.

Since I went back to lurking the OCNet, I took up martial arts and lost almost 25lbs.  Some other positive changes are coming together as well: I decided to take Mike Rowe up on his admonitions and I'm studying for my Class A driver's license just in case I need a second job (my parish is habitually unstable when it comes to finances).  Being fit is extremely helpful in trucking, even with air brakes and power steering.

Anyway, off I go.  Keep up the good work(out)!


Father,

I'm in the process of changing careers myself as well (well you're technically looking for additional qualifications).  Got out of the navy last month and will be going to CEIBS in Shanghai, China for my MBA this August.  Currently working my way through FreeCodeCamp and CodeAcademy.  Hoping to work with a tech company upon the completion of my MBA.  Computer software capabilities in addition to my bilingual capabilities will hopefully make me attractive to potential employers. 
Good luck on your Class A driver's license.   :D

Offline beebert

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #146 on: March 30, 2017, 06:36:03 AM »
BTW I read from some counsil held in the 17th century that the orthodox Church condemned calvinism for being blasphemous, satanic and heretical. Is that the general view of the orthodox Christians towards calvinism?
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Offline Arachne

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #147 on: March 30, 2017, 06:38:59 AM »
BTW I read from some counsil held in the 17th century that the orthodox Church condemned calvinism for being blasphemous, satanic and heretical. Is that the general view of the orthodox Christians towards calvinism?

In the East, most people don't even know what Calvinism is; Protestantism is seen as a heresy whole-cloth, without nuancing. In the West, Calvinism is precisely what a lot of Orthodox converts are fleeing from.
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

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Offline beebert

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #148 on: March 30, 2017, 07:03:49 AM »
BTW I read from some counsil held in the 17th century that the orthodox Church condemned calvinism for being blasphemous, satanic and heretical. Is that the general view of the orthodox Christians towards calvinism?

In the East, most people don't even know what Calvinism is; Protestantism is seen as a heresy whole-cloth, without nuancing. In the West, Calvinism is precisely what a lot of Orthodox converts are fleeing from.
I see. But then I just have 2 questions:

1. I guess the official orthodox chruch view and opinion Towards calvinism is that it is blasphemous and satanic and heretical as is stated in this Council?

2.if so, then I am partly relieved, but also partly worried. Because these kind of condemnations are exactly one of the things that makes me so confused. On the one hand; what IF calvinism would be true? Then calling calvinism satanic is blasphemy. But if calvinism is WRONG and orthodoxy is true, then believing in calvinism is blasphemous. How can one know absolutely for sure? I mean, if calvinism and orthodoxy are so incredibly incompatible, it almost seems to me they even worship different Gods, because their view of God is so enormously different.
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Offline Arachne

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #149 on: March 30, 2017, 07:39:42 AM »
BTW I read from some counsil held in the 17th century that the orthodox Church condemned calvinism for being blasphemous, satanic and heretical. Is that the general view of the orthodox Christians towards calvinism?

In the East, most people don't even know what Calvinism is; Protestantism is seen as a heresy whole-cloth, without nuancing. In the West, Calvinism is precisely what a lot of Orthodox converts are fleeing from.
I see. But then I just have 2 questions:

1. I guess the official orthodox chruch view and opinion Towards calvinism is that it is blasphemous and satanic and heretical as is stated in this Council?

2.if so, then I am partly relieved, but also partly worried. Because these kind of condemnations are exactly one of the things that makes me so confused. On the one hand; what IF calvinism would be true? Then calling calvinism satanic is blasphemy. But if calvinism is WRONG and orthodoxy is true, then believing in calvinism is blasphemous. How can one know absolutely for sure? I mean, if calvinism and orthodoxy are so incredibly incompatible, it almost seems to me they even worship different Gods, because their view of God is so enormously different.

We don't believe that the Spirit was leading the Church astray for 1500 years, until Calvin and his minions came along to set things right. We've been warned to beware of false prophets more times than anyone would care to count.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 07:41:00 AM by Arachne »
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Offline beebert

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #150 on: March 30, 2017, 07:50:57 AM »
BTW I read from some counsil held in the 17th century that the orthodox Church condemned calvinism for being blasphemous, satanic and heretical. Is that the general view of the orthodox Christians towards calvinism?

In the East, most people don't even know what Calvinism is; Protestantism is seen as a heresy whole-cloth, without nuancing. In the West, Calvinism is precisely what a lot of Orthodox converts are fleeing from.
I see. But then I just have 2 questions:

1. I guess the official orthodox chruch view and opinion Towards calvinism is that it is blasphemous and satanic and heretical as is stated in this Council?

2.if so, then I am partly relieved, but also partly worried. Because these kind of condemnations are exactly one of the things that makes me so confused. On the one hand; what IF calvinism would be true? Then calling calvinism satanic is blasphemy. But if calvinism is WRONG and orthodoxy is true, then believing in calvinism is blasphemous. How can one know absolutely for sure? I mean, if calvinism and orthodoxy are so incredibly incompatible, it almost seems to me they even worship different Gods, because their view of God is so enormously different.

We don't believe that the Spirit was leading the Church astray for 1500 years, until Calvin and his minions came along to set things right. We've been warned to beware of false prophets more times than anyone would care to count.
So an orthodox can with certainity say that Calvin was a false prophet?
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Offline Alxandra

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #151 on: March 30, 2017, 09:29:35 AM »
BTW I read from some counsil held in the 17th century that the orthodox Church condemned calvinism for being blasphemous, satanic and heretical. Is that the general view of the orthodox Christians towards calvinism?

In the East, most people don't even know what Calvinism is; Protestantism is seen as a heresy whole-cloth, without nuancing. In the West, Calvinism is precisely what a lot of Orthodox converts are fleeing from.
I see. But then I just have 2 questions:

1. I guess the official orthodox chruch view and opinion Towards calvinism is that it is blasphemous and satanic and heretical as is stated in this Council?

2.if so, then I am partly relieved, but also partly worried. Because these kind of condemnations are exactly one of the things that makes me so confused. On the one hand; what IF calvinism would be true? Then calling calvinism satanic is blasphemy. But if calvinism is WRONG and orthodoxy is true, then believing in calvinism is blasphemous. How can one know absolutely for sure? I mean, if calvinism and orthodoxy are so incredibly incompatible, it almost seems to me they even worship different Gods, because their view of God is so enormously different.


Beebert, as stated previously:

It is not a question on if they worship the same God, God is with every person, whether they view God in a corrupted Protestant way or not. Whether they are an atheist or not. God never turns away from us, but it is us who must find the truth and struggle through the Church. The fullness of the church is in Orthodoxy, and we can come to know God properly through it.

Be careful not to view things in an black and white way, just because they are misguided and part of false Christian denominations, doesn't mean they don't believe in God. They are misguided and blinded by heresy, and we have to pray that they come to the one true Church :)

Did you watch the videos I posted? There is useful knowledge about Calvinism in them, and generally about the Protestant reformation and its issues.

And of course the Orthodox Church is not in communion with Calvinism!
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 09:30:34 AM by Alxandra »
"And if the man is the head of the family then the woman is the heart, and this heart is made by God that He may find rest in it”
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Blog http://the-woman-is-the-heart.tumblr.com/

Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/thewomanistheheart/

Offline Alxandra

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #152 on: March 30, 2017, 09:32:20 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piVdrtgo7Xw

Here is the video again. It is very useful to see the protestant reformation was really led by men with their own created false ideas about Christianity.
"And if the man is the head of the family then the woman is the heart, and this heart is made by God that He may find rest in it”
+Elder Arsenie Papacioc

Blog http://the-woman-is-the-heart.tumblr.com/

Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/thewomanistheheart/

Offline beebert

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #153 on: March 30, 2017, 10:39:55 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piVdrtgo7Xw

Here is the video again. It is very useful to see the protestant reformation was really led by men with their own created false ideas about Christianity.
Thanks for both you fine comments! I did watch the video two days ago and it was very helpful! Thank you very much for it and I will do what I can to completely trust what was said there.
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Offline beebert

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #154 on: March 30, 2017, 11:25:02 AM »
May I just ask one more thing... What is predestination according to orthodoxy? For example when Paul talks about predestination, what is the orthodox view on that?
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #155 on: April 02, 2017, 12:30:27 AM »
May I just ask one more thing... What is predestination according to orthodoxy? For example when Paul talks about predestination, what is the orthodox view on that?
If I may .... It's not a thing.

it's too late anyway. predestination isn't really a thing though. It's ubiquitous, I think.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2017, 12:31:53 AM by mcarmichael »
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #156 on: April 02, 2017, 12:36:17 AM »
well, anyway to me, an Orthodox Inquirer, Calvinism isn't even a thing. Like, I don't even bother with it. I'm soo totally over it.

How is it useful?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2017, 12:37:18 AM by mcarmichael »
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #157 on: April 02, 2017, 01:21:20 AM »
well, anyway to me, an Orthodox Inquirer, Calvinism isn't even a thing. Like, I don't even bother with it. I'm soo totally over it.

How is it useful?

It isn't useful for anything, which is exactly my point.
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #158 on: April 02, 2017, 01:23:24 AM »
Nobody ever has been saved by Calvinism.
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #159 on: April 02, 2017, 01:48:32 AM »
Nobody ever has been saved by Calvinism.
Not even once. True story.
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #160 on: April 02, 2017, 01:50:58 AM »
I hope that in the future, being an Orthodox Christian will secure a good credit rating.
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #161 on: April 02, 2017, 01:55:31 AM »
I hope that in the future, being an Orthodox Christian will secure a good credit rating.
Like the very near future.
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #162 on: April 02, 2017, 02:06:40 AM »
May I just ask one more thing... What is predestination according to orthodoxy? For example when Paul talks about predestination, what is the orthodox view on that?

I think the term indicates that someone is 'chosen,' but as we saw with Israel or Judas, being 'chosen' does not equate to a guarantee that you will be saved or walk according to the right path. St. Paul discusses this when he says:

"For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building." (1 Cor. 3:9)

We are the building of God, his temple, yet we are simultaneously called to cooperate with him and being doers of the word, engaging in what 1 Thes. 1:3 calls "your work of faith, and labour of love." St. Paul goes on:

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" (1 Cor. 3:11-16)

In this passage St. Paul is talking about Jesus having already chosen us, accepted us, adopted us; the foundation is already laid, the Spirit of God is already in us. Yet this good beginning does not mean everything is already predetermined. Instead, we will be judged--called to account for what we did and who we were in this life. If we followed the path we were supposed to then we will be vindicated and raised up. However, if we did not follow the ways we were supposed to this will be exposed and "he shall suffer loss." According to saints like John Chrysostom the part about "he himself shall be saved" does not mean saved in the sense of eternal life in heaven, but rather saved from the fate of annihilation and non-existence. This is the reason for the ominous-sounding end and summation of the passage:

"If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." (1 Cor. 3:17)
"The bed is too short to stretch out on, the blanket too narrow to wrap around you." (Isa. 28:20)

"For because they wronged the simple, they shall be slain; and an inquisition shall ruin the ungodly." (Prov. 1:32 LXX)

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #163 on: April 02, 2017, 02:22:47 AM »
May I just ask one more thing... What is predestination according to orthodoxy? For example when Paul talks about predestination, what is the orthodox view on that?

I think the term indicates that someone is 'chosen,' but as we saw with Israel or Judas, being 'chosen' does not equate to a guarantee that you will be saved or walk according to the right path. St. Paul discusses this when he says:

"For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building." (1 Cor. 3:9)

We are the building of God, his temple, yet we are simultaneously called to cooperate with him and being doers of the word, engaging in what 1 Thes. 1:3 calls "your work of faith, and labour of love." St. Paul goes on:

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" (1 Cor. 3:11-16)

In this passage St. Paul is talking about Jesus having already chosen us, accepted us, adopted us; the foundation is already laid, the Spirit of God is already in us. Yet this good beginning does not mean everything is already predetermined. Instead, we will be judged--called to account for what we did and who we were in this life. If we followed the path we were supposed to then we will be vindicated and raised up. However, if we did not follow the ways we were supposed to this will be exposed and "he shall suffer loss." According to saints like John Chrysostom the part about "he himself shall be saved" does not mean saved in the sense of eternal life in heaven, but rather saved from the fate of annihilation and non-existence. This is the reason for the ominous-sounding end and summation of the passage:

"If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." (1 Cor. 3:17)
according to a catholic Priest I spoke to some months ago predestination has not anything to do with the fact that God has predestined who Will be saved, but ratber, he has predestined all human beings to become what he decides them to become,but a man can still turn down and say no to what God has predestined him to and go his own path to perdition. And perdition is Always the result of a life without God, since we live in and by and through God.

Btw. If Paul by "he himself shall be saved" means not eternal life but saved from annihilation, then there is nothing Good about being saved in this way is it? I mean, all would rather be annihilated then suffer forever in an eternal hellfire...
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #164 on: April 02, 2017, 02:37:44 AM »
May I just ask one more thing... What is predestination according to orthodoxy? For example when Paul talks about predestination, what is the orthodox view on that?

I think the term indicates that someone is 'chosen,' but as we saw with Israel or Judas, being 'chosen' does not equate to a guarantee that you will be saved or walk according to the right path. St. Paul discusses this when he says:

"For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building." (1 Cor. 3:9)

We are the building of God, his temple, yet we are simultaneously called to cooperate with him and being doers of the word, engaging in what 1 Thes. 1:3 calls "your work of faith, and labour of love." St. Paul goes on:

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" (1 Cor. 3:11-16)

In this passage St. Paul is talking about Jesus having already chosen us, accepted us, adopted us; the foundation is already laid, the Spirit of God is already in us. Yet this good beginning does not mean everything is already predetermined. Instead, we will be judged--called to account for what we did and who we were in this life. If we followed the path we were supposed to then we will be vindicated and raised up. However, if we did not follow the ways we were supposed to this will be exposed and "he shall suffer loss." According to saints like John Chrysostom the part about "he himself shall be saved" does not mean saved in the sense of eternal life in heaven, but rather saved from the fate of annihilation and non-existence. This is the reason for the ominous-sounding end and summation of the passage:

"If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." (1 Cor. 3:17)
according to a catholic Priest I spoke to some months ago predestination has not anything to do with the fact that God has predestined who Will be saved, but ratber, he has predestined all human beings to become what he decides them to become,but a man can still turn down and say no to what God has predestined him to and go his own path to perdition. And perdition is Always the result of a life without God, since we live in and by and through God.

Btw. If Paul by "he himself shall be saved" means not eternal life but saved from annihilation, then there is nothing Good about being saved in this way is it? I mean, all would rather be annihilated then suffer forever in an eternal hellfire...

Who cares what a Catholic Priest said to you? lol

I might be inclined to listen if it were an Orthodox Priest, but not 100%.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2017, 02:39:22 AM by mcarmichael »
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #165 on: April 02, 2017, 03:04:40 AM »
the truth, I tend to disregard most free advice. did you get a bad piece of fish, or what?
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #166 on: April 02, 2017, 03:06:43 AM »
what sort of advice do you need? It's a bit discomfiting, the title of the thread, and all of that. Is it a digestive issue? Maybe try to eat more fiber. Add beans to your diet.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2017, 03:24:18 AM by mcarmichael »
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #167 on: April 02, 2017, 03:28:12 AM »
I wonder if I shouldn't be into forex, which I could be into within 2-3 days.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2017, 03:28:49 AM by mcarmichael »
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #168 on: April 02, 2017, 03:34:14 AM »
If God weren't good, how could he allow you to have this existential crisis?
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #169 on: April 02, 2017, 03:36:04 AM »
If God weren't good, how could he allow you to have this existential crisis?
Take full credit, partial credit, or whatever.
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #170 on: April 02, 2017, 03:43:56 AM »
Better yet, ignore me, carry on with crisis.
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

Online xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #171 on: April 02, 2017, 03:49:24 AM »
If God weren't good, how could he allow you to have this existential crisis?

Good question.
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”- St. Ambrose of Milan

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"He who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen." (1 John 4:20)

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #172 on: April 02, 2017, 03:54:30 AM »
I'm only trying to up my post count, at this point.
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #173 on: April 02, 2017, 03:59:00 AM »
Plenty points, no disregard.
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #174 on: April 02, 2017, 04:06:50 AM »
Plenty points, no disregard.
It's code for please do not reply.
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #175 on: April 02, 2017, 04:09:20 AM »
Plenty points, no disregard.
It's code for please do not reply.
Just kidding.
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

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Re: Having trouble believing God is good
« Reply #176 on: April 02, 2017, 02:34:38 PM »
I'm only trying to up my post count, at this point.

mcarmichael,

If you want to increase your post count, you could do so by posting relevant comments.  What you were doing in this and other threads in other sections of the forum over the past night is prohibited by the forum rules, but you know that since you've been warned for this before. 

Sixty (60) points. 

If you would like to appeal this decision, please PM serb1389. 

Mor Ephrem, section moderator
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The whole forum is Mor. We're emanations of his godlike mind.