Author Topic: Validity of baptism  (Read 1069 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline maxval

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Validity of baptism
« on: September 26, 2010, 10:20:27 AM »
I have a question.

What happens when a priest stripped of his sacerdotal duties performs a baptism or any other holy mistery that requires a priest? Is the baptism (or other holy mistery) valid or not?

So: is the holy mistery of the holy orders until death or it can be "revoked"?

What is the position in EO and OO?

Offline mike

  • Pink Mafia
  • Protostrator
  • ***************
  • Posts: 24,770
  • Polish Laser Jesus shooting down schismatics
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of Białystok and Gdańsk
Re: Validity of baptism
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2010, 10:40:25 AM »
Any Orthodox Christian can perform Baptism so it would be valid, but other sacraments would not. Priesthood can be taken back.
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?
"No one is paying attention to your post reports"
Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

Offline PeterTheAleut

  • The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 37,360
  • Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Validity of baptism
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2010, 10:51:16 AM »
Additionally, there is no belief in the EO Church that ordination places an "indelible mark" on the person of the ordained, such as--I believe--has been defined in the Roman Catholic Council of Trent.  One who is ordained a priest can indeed be stripped entirely of his priesthood and be no longer a priest in any way, shape, or form.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2010, 10:51:33 AM by PeterTheAleut »
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Irish Hermit

  • Kibernetski Kaludjer
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,991
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us
Re: Validity of baptism
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2010, 11:10:22 AM »
I just *bumped* the thread " No Indelible Mark of the Priesthood in Patristic Teaching" so it will be easier to find and study.

Offline ICXCNIKA

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 782
Re: Validity of baptism
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2010, 02:47:33 PM »
Is there a difference between being defrocked/deposed and being laitized?

Offline mike

  • Pink Mafia
  • Protostrator
  • ***************
  • Posts: 24,770
  • Polish Laser Jesus shooting down schismatics
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of Białystok and Gdańsk
Re: Validity of baptism
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2010, 03:10:41 PM »
No - these are the same things. On the other hand there is a difference between defrocking and suspending. The latter is a ban from a Bishop to perform Priest's duties while one still is a Priest.
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?
"No one is paying attention to your post reports"
Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

Offline deusveritasest

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,528
Re: Validity of baptism
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2010, 04:23:37 PM »
What happens when a priest stripped of his sacerdotal duties performs a baptism or any other holy mistery that requires a priest? Is the baptism (or other holy mistery) valid or not?

I've heard conflicting views about whether or not Baptism can be legitimately conveyed by a lay person or not.

Anything else cannot be done without a Priest though, I'm pretty sure. It will convey no redeeming effect.

So: is the holy mistery of the holy orders until death or it can be "revoked"?

The Mystery of Holy Orders can be until death or even perhaps unto eternity (this latter part is not at all dogmatic, I've just heard some speculation). But yes, it can most certainly be revoked by the authority of the Church to loose and bind sins.

Offline deusveritasest

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,528
Re: Validity of baptism
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2010, 04:25:40 PM »
Is there a difference between being defrocked/deposed and being laitized?

It might be possible for a clergyman to be deposed without losing his Holy Orders (not sure here). But, from what I can tell, defrocking indicates a loss of Holy Orders.

Offline mike

  • Pink Mafia
  • Protostrator
  • ***************
  • Posts: 24,770
  • Polish Laser Jesus shooting down schismatics
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of Białystok and Gdańsk
Re: Validity of baptism
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2010, 05:34:29 PM »
Sorry, I messed a bit. My poor English   :-[
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?
"No one is paying attention to your post reports"
Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.