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Author Topic: Some dire confusion  (Read 617 times) Average Rating: 0
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MyMapleStory
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« on: September 26, 2010, 03:21:12 AM »

I like to discuss and defend orthodoxy, but when Im asked what is the orthodox church what is the best responce? I usually get flustered in having to explain how the eastern  orthodox church is not in communion with the oriental and other churches using the term orthodox, then I explain how each church of antioch, Constantinople and etc are in communion with each other and its just a hassle.

Is there a easier simpler way to describe the the eastern orthodox church? Im hesitant in using the word Eastern orthodoxy, as orthodoxy exists not only in the east but also in the west, but I can recognize the need for it if it makes things easier.
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mike
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« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2010, 07:03:18 AM »

IMO the European Union is a good example of EO ecclesiology.
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synLeszka
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« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2010, 07:18:31 AM »

IMO the European Union is a good example of EO ecclesiology.
Huh
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mike
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« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2010, 07:21:26 AM »

Several countries united economically and politically (like Churches united in theology) but each one has distinct tradition, culture and history (each Church has also). There is no one man who decide but all decisions are made collegially.
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ialmisry
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« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2010, 11:11:27 AM »

I like to discuss and defend orthodoxy, but when Im asked what is the orthodox church what is the best responce? I usually get flustered in having to explain how the eastern  orthodox church is not in communion with the oriental and other churches using the term orthodox, then I explain how each church of antioch, Constantinople and etc are in communion with each other and its just a hassle.

Is there a easier simpler way to describe the the eastern orthodox church? Im hesitant in using the word Eastern orthodoxy, as orthodoxy exists not only in the east but also in the west, but I can recognize the need for it if it makes things easier.

The 1st century Church in the 21st century, the Church stil communion with all the patriarchates the Apostles founded except Rome, which left the communion and went its own way.
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Dart
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« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2010, 03:47:56 PM »

Many years ago, my Priest explained the Ekklesia - Church as being the gathering of God's people. Our newest Priest refers to this view as Protestantism and now the Church is more often reflected as the Synod of Bishops with the Ecumenical Patriarch as its head. This sounds Roman Catholic to me.

The main difference here being who God's people are. Are God's people limited to those who follow a certain Bishop? Yes, but that Bishop is Christ and not the imitators of this age. For we are all called to be imitators of Christ. We appoint leaders to serve us not to idolize them. Does your Church leader serve you or himself? Do you serve your fellow brothers in Christ or do you seek your own comfort?

I define Church as the gathering of God's people. I define God's people as those who live a life in Christ, loving one another. This life in Christ is a daily choice and not a singular event. When you are among fellow Christians you can feel it in your heart. That is the Church.



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Fabio Leite
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« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2010, 04:07:44 PM »

First, the Church is composed of bad and good people. Some of the bad people are outright ungodly and, according to Jesus promise in Revelation, they will be "vomitted" out of His body in the Second Coming.

Anyway, I think that ecclesiologies that tend to identify the Church with the "good" people only have missed an important aspect of what our Lord Jesus Christ came to do. Likewise, bishopocentric ecclesiologies err on the excessive focus on one important, but one only, element of the Church.

The Church is the group of people in whom the energy of salvation, the "Kingdom", dwell, changing their nature of sin, if they confess Jesus Christ, into a nature of Glory. This Divine Energy, which is God Himself, acts from inside these people.

There are many good and holier people outside the Church. But this energy showers over and around them, many times, "reflecting" onto the people around them, but it does not come from within. St. Francis was far closer to the Sun of Justice than the vast majority of people, including Orthodox people. The light was all around him, and yet, it was not *in* him. When a member of the Body of Christ comes near Him, the light shines from within. He is not like a bright mirror reflecting the sun from nearby, but like a small star himself. Even the bad Orthodox have this potential, although they don't "activate" it because they do not confess Jesus Christ in their hearts and don't truly accept Him. They are like sad aborted stars, the soil of rocks wherein the seeds start to grow but are chocked by a heart of stone.

This qualitative difference is the most important one. The differences in dogmas, practices and organization are all consequence of this.
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Dart
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« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2010, 06:32:02 PM »

The Church is the group of people in whom the energy of salvation, the "Kingdom", dwell, changing their nature of sin, if they confess Jesus Christ, into a nature of Glory. This Divine Energy, which is God Himself, acts from inside these people.

Today's Epistle Reading matches well with this.
The Reading is from St. John's First Universal Letter 4:12-19

NO MAN has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us. By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his own Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son as the Savior of the world. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. So we know and believe the love God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. In this is love perfected with us, that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so are we in this world. There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and he who fears is not perfected in love. We love, because he first loved us.


Clearly people of all nations have this potential to shine and not just Orthodox? Forgive me if I am wrong but how can we know that Jesus will judge people in the same manner that a Bishop of the Church does. And which Bishop for that matter?

Is it not more important that we have Faith in Christ and imitate Him with love for one another than "be bad" in the "correct" denomination of Church? If the bad (those without Faith) within the Church will be vomitted out, won't the children of God in other flocks also be accepted into the Church on the day of Judgement?

Anyway, I think that ecclesiologies that tend to identify the Church with the "good" people only have missed an important aspect of what our Lord Jesus Christ came to do. Likewise, bishopocentric ecclesiologies err on the excessive focus on one important, but one only, element of the Church.
I believe bishopocentric and salvation by works (good people) is the same religion. This Roman Catholicism is considered heresy by the Orthodox Churches.

An Old Calendarist is not in communion with the Orthodox Church. Does a calendar make so much difference to God?
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MyMapleStory
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« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2010, 11:31:59 PM »

Thank you so much for your advice guys =)
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