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Author Topic: Have More Children and Go Back to Church or Europe Will Become Islamicized:  (Read 3040 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: September 24, 2010, 04:25:24 AM »

Have More Children and Go Back to Church or Europe Will Become Islamicized: Senior Vatican Official
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2010/sep/10092206.html
ROME, September 22, 2010 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Europe will grow more “Islamicized” if Christian Europeans do not start having more children, and going back to Church, a senior Vatican official said this month. Msgr. Piero Gheddo, a famous missionary and an official with the Vatican’s Pontifical Institute for Foreign Missions, told Zenit news service that Europe’s indigenous inhabitants have abandoned Christianity and are becoming “paganized.”

“The fact is that, as a people, we are becoming ever more pagan and the religious vacuum is inevitably filled by other proposals and religious forces,” said Msgr. Gheddo, who founded AsiaNews, the Christian missionary news service. As religious practice diminishes in Christian Europe, “indifference spreads; Christianity and the Church are attacked.”

“If we consider ourselves a Christian country, we should return to the practice of Chris
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« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2010, 03:26:56 AM »

Have More Children and Go Back to Church or Europe Will Become Islamicized: Senior Vatican Official
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2010/sep/10092206.html
ROME, September 22, 2010 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Europe will grow more “Islamicized” if Christian Europeans do not start having more children, and going back to Church, a senior Vatican official said this month. Msgr. Piero Gheddo, a famous missionary and an official with the Vatican’s Pontifical Institute for Foreign Missions, told Zenit news service that Europe’s indigenous inhabitants have abandoned Christianity and are becoming “paganized.”

“The fact is that, as a people, we are becoming ever more pagan and the religious vacuum is inevitably filled by other proposals and religious forces,” said Msgr. Gheddo, who founded AsiaNews, the Christian missionary news service. As religious practice diminishes in Christian Europe, “indifference spreads; Christianity and the Church are attacked.”

“If we consider ourselves a Christian country, we should return to the practice of Chris
Amen.

Europe has been preventing her children with contraception and killing them with abortion far too long. They have forsaken the promises of God, and the Muslims, who keep their fasts, display piety, and are open to life will inherit the land because they have been more faithful in holding to the Christian faith than the Europeans.

Sadly, despite the similarities, their faith is not our faith, and what was once a bastion of Christianity (according to us lowly Westerners) will now become a new Islamic land, and Christianity must diminish. St. Jude and all saints, pray for Europe that she may be saved from her treachery and rebellion.
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« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2010, 08:37:32 AM »

Have More Children and Go Back to Church or Europe Will Become Islamicized: Senior Vatican Official
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2010/sep/10092206.html
ROME, September 22, 2010 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Europe will grow more “Islamicized” if Christian Europeans do not start having more children, and going back to Church, a senior Vatican official said this month. Msgr. Piero Gheddo, a famous missionary and an official with the Vatican’s Pontifical Institute for Foreign Missions, told Zenit news service that Europe’s indigenous inhabitants have abandoned Christianity and are becoming “paganized.”

“The fact is that, as a people, we are becoming ever more pagan and the religious vacuum is inevitably filled by other proposals and religious forces,” said Msgr. Gheddo, who founded AsiaNews, the Christian missionary news service. As religious practice diminishes in Christian Europe, “indifference spreads; Christianity and the Church are attacked.”

“If we consider ourselves a Christian country, we should return to the practice of Christ
Christ didn't have any physical children (although I basically agree with the Vatican on the above statements, the idea of it being promoted by those who hold St. Jerome's ideas on marriage nonetheless is rich).

He did go to Church. And evangelize. Europe (and the World) needs more of that too.
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« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2010, 09:21:36 AM »

Or as our priest put it, the Moslems are obeying God's first commandment to us and we are not - be fruitful and multiply.

I guess it's just a trade.  They are getting Europe and Africa will be ours.
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« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2010, 09:55:15 AM »

I think you're pretty right. Islam do not forbid his priests (iman) to copulate. Christianism, on the other hand, only allows you to grow up in spiritual life when in monasticism (both eastern and western).
Ah, they don't care that much with career as we do. (One of my best friends is muslim).
Or as our priest put it, the Moslems are obeying God's first commandment to us and we are not - be fruitful and multiply.

I guess it's just a trade.  They are getting Europe and Africa will be ours.
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« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2010, 09:58:59 AM »

Quote from: Ialmisry
... (although I basically agree with the Vatican on the above statements, the idea of it being promoted by those who hold St. Jerome's ideas on marriage nonetheless is rich).

What are St. Jerome's ideas on marriage?
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« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2010, 10:09:36 AM »

Quote from: Ialmisry
... (although I basically agree with the Vatican on the above statements, the idea of it being promoted by those who hold St. Jerome's ideas on marriage nonetheless is rich).

What are St. Jerome's ideas on marriage?
It's a nasty thing, but someone has to do it to produce the monks, so he thanks God for weak people for that.
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« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2010, 03:02:36 PM »

What can I say? The Vatican is right...
And I don't really like saying this
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« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2010, 03:51:34 PM »


It's not just about multiplying in numbers.

Take a look around...right where you are at this moment.

If you are at work, look at your coworkers...there are many of them, and yet how many know God?  How many go to church?  How many even care?

Making babies isn't the answer.  We already have the multitudes...we need to bring them to God!
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« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2010, 03:53:50 PM »


It's not just about multiplying in numbers.

Take a look around...right where you are at this moment.

If you are at work, look at your coworkers...there are many of them, and yet how many know God?  How many go to church?  How many even care?

Making babies isn't the answer.  We already have the multitudes...we need to bring them to God!

I'd say we need a little of column A, and a little of column B
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« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2010, 03:58:38 PM »

...and the Muslims, who keep their fasts, display piety, and are open to life will inherit the land because they have been more faithful in holding to the Christian faith than the Europeans.
This is, at best, an over-simplification.  More likely, it's a complete misunderstanding of what Islamic culture is really like.

Islam has formalized and systematized immorality with their hours-long "marriages".  Nice, that.  Islam (at least, the Arabic Muslims I've known well) fully accept fornication, as long as it's a Muslim man having fun with an imported Christian, or other, girl.  Forgiveness is central to the Christian faith.  Do Muslims tend to forgive young women who make bad decisions?  No, they stone them.

Islam may well be winning.  But it isn't because they're more faithful.  Perhaps because they're more ruthless.  But definitely, definitely not because of any fasting, piety, or other phony superficial trappings of their false faith.
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« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2010, 04:32:21 PM »

Islam has formalized and systematized immorality with their hours-long "marriages".

"Temporary marriages" are a peculiarity of Iran and the custom is often mocked by Muslims from other countries.
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« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2010, 04:38:17 PM »

"Temporary marriages" are a peculiarity of Iran and the custom is often mocked by Muslims from other countries.
Wrong.  They're quite available in Iraq, as well.

And the fact that some Muslims mock others does nothing for Islam's overall legitimacy.  At least in my view.
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« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2010, 04:59:43 PM »

Wrong.  They're quite available in Iraq, as well.

Iraq has Shias of the same stripe as in Iran. Nonetheless, this custom is not widely practised in the Muslim world.

Islam as universally practised is objectionable enough. In criticizing Islam, it is best to focus on those universal features, because choosing some provincial custom and decrying the entire religion from Morocco to Indonesia for it is pretty shaky.
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« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2010, 05:59:55 PM »

Okay, I'm with you.  I'm perfectly fine with the idea that everyone in the world has different reasons for concluding that Islam is empty, shallow, vapid, or whatever.  That works for me.
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« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2010, 09:11:55 PM »

Muslim demographics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU
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« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2010, 09:51:55 PM »

Wrong.  They're quite available in Iraq, as well.

Iraq has Shias of the same stripe as in Iran. Nonetheless, this custom is not widely practised in the Muslim world.

Islam as universally practised is objectionable enough. In criticizing Islam, it is best to focus on those universal features, because choosing some provincial custom and decrying the entire religion from Morocco to Indonesia for it is pretty shaky.
The Malikis have temporary marriage, and the other Sunnis schools have something similar by hilal (legal loopholes).  Their prophet was conceived in one, if not an affair, and the Sunnis all admit that the 'Umar, not the prophet, banned them.  And of course they all have easy divorce. For the men, of course.

Another lovely institution of Islam (all schools):

I keep on forgetting the correct term: if you divorce your wife three times, you have to have her marry someone else before you can marry her again.  There's a term for the man who does the deed which I always forget.

MUHALLIL!  I keep on forgetting that term (btw, the reference to Muwatta' is particularly apropos, as our Muslim friend is Maliki and it is their foundational text):
Quote
MUHALLIL
If a Muslim man has divorced his wife, but then has a change of mind, he cannot simply remarry her even if both want to start over again. Islamic law stipulates that the wife must first marry and have intercourse with another man, and who has to divorce her again, before it becomes lawful for the original couple to remarry.

The man who marries a divorced wife in order to make her lawful for her former husband again is called muhallil, which literally means, "One who makes lawful."

The basis for this law is found in the Qur'an:


Divorce is twice; then honourable retention or setting free kindly. It is not lawful for you to take of what you have given them unless the couple fear they may not maintain God's bounds; if you fear they may not maintain God's bounds, it is no fault in them for her to redeem herself. Those are God's bounds; do not transgress them. Whosoever transgresses the bounds of God -- those are the evildoers. If he divorces her finally, she shall not be lawful to him after that, until she marries another husband. If he divorces her, then it is no fault in them to return to each other, if they suppose that they will maintain God's bounds. Those are God's bounds; He makes them clear unto a people that have knowledge. S. 2:229-230

Muslim tradition specifies that this cannot be a pro forma marriage (i.e. they cannot only marry on paper, not only register the marriage), but the woman must engage in sexual intercourse with the man before she can return to her former husband:

Yahya related to me from Malik from al-Miswar ibn Rifaa al-Quradhi from az-Zubayr ibn Abd ar-Rahman ibn az-Zubayr that Rifaa ibn Simwal divorced his wife, Tamima bint Wahb, in the time of the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, three times. Then she married Abd ar-Rahman ibn az-Zubayr and he turned from her and could not consummate the marriage and so he parted from her. Rifaa wanted to marry her again and it was mentioned to the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and he forbade him to marry her. He said, "She is not halal for you until she has tasted the sweetness of intercourse." (Malik's Muwatta, Book 28, Number 28.7.17)

Yahya related to me from Malik from Yahya ibn Said from al-Qasim ibn Muhammad that A'isha, the wife of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said when asked whether it was permissible for a man to marry again a wife he had divorced irrevocably if she had married another man who divorced her before consummating the marriage, "Not until she has tasted the sweetness of intercourse." (Malik's Muwatta, Book 28, Number 28.7.18)

The man who makes the woman lawful for her former husband is called Muhallil:

Yahya related to me from Malik that he had heard that when asked whether it was permissible for a man to return to his wife if he had divorced her irrevocably and then another man had married her after him and died before consummating the marriage, al-Qasim ibn Muhammad said, "It is not halal for the first husband to return to her." Malik said, about the muhallil, that he could not remain in the marriage until he undertook a new marriage. If he had intercourse with her in that marriage, she had her dowry. (Malik's Muwatta, Book 28, Number 28.7.19)

This Islamic law stands in stark contradiction to the Biblical command:

"If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, and if after she leaves his house she becomes the wife of another man, and her second husband dislikes her and writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, or if he dies, then her first husband, who divorced her, is not allowed to marry her again after she has been defiled. That would be detestable in the eyes of the LORD. Do not bring sin upon the land the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance." Deuteronomy 24:1-4

"God says, 'If a husband divorces his wife and she goes from him and belongs to another man, will he still return to her? Will not that land be completely polluted? But you are a harlot with many lovers; Yet you turn to Me,' declares the LORD. Lift up your eyes to the bare heights and see; Where have you not been violated? By the roads you have sat for them Like an Arab in the desert, And you have polluted a land with your harlotry and with your wickedness." Jeremiah 3:1-2

What God calls detestable, the Qur'an commands Muslims to perform. It is one of many reasons the Qur'an does not originate from the same source as the Bible. It is not from the God of the Bible. See also: Does Allah Command Evil?, A strange divorce and remarriage law in the Quran

Even from the time of Muhammad, we have reports about some of the bad consequences resulting from this Islamic regulation:

Narrated 'Ikrima:
Rifa'a divorced his wife whereupon 'AbdurRahman bin Az-Zubair Al-Qurazi married her. 'Aisha said that the lady (came), wearing a green veil (and complained to her (Aisha) of her husband and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating). It was the habit of ladies to support each other, so when Allah's Apostle came, 'Aisha said, "I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes!" When 'AbdurRahman heard that his wife had gone to the Prophet, he came with his two sons from another wife. She said, "By Allah! I have done no wrong to him but he is impotent and is as useless to me as this," holding and showing the fringe of her garment, 'Abdur-Rahman said, "By Allah, O Allah's Apostle! She has told a lie! I am very strong and can satisfy her but she is disobedient and wants to go back to Rifa'a." Allah's Apostle said, to her, "If that is your intention, then know that it is unlawful for you to remarry Rifa'a unless Abdur-Rahman has had sexual intercourse with you." Then the Prophet saw two boys with 'Abdur-Rahman and asked (him), "Are these your sons?" On that 'AbdurRahman said, "Yes." The Prophet said, "You claim what you claim (i.e. that he is impotent)? But by Allah, these boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow." (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 72, Number 715)

Whatever the reasons for their marital disagreements, the man was beating his wife (which the Qur'an allows, and which seems to be of no concern to Muhammad), but based on this law, Muhammad demands from her to have intercourse with this man, even though this may not be possible. Men can become impotent for many reasons. Perhaps 'AbdurRahman was able to perform intercourse in earlier years, but he had become impotent later. Having two sons does not prove anything about a man's present ability for intercourse. Muhammad was apparently unaware of this basic medical fact. Whether she was lying, or he was lying, it is obvious that this was not a happy marriage. Muhammad demanded that two people who had no love for each other, have intercourse before the woman could remarry her former husband, assuming that he wanted her back.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Index/M/muhallil.html

Btw, back to muTa' temporary "marriage": there are those who practice it in Michigan, and it has already been adjudicated in federal court at least once. OK has the right idea.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2010, 09:53:31 PM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2010, 02:21:37 AM »

Of course, we should have children and raise them in church. Here in Germany, we just reached a new record low of 1.36 children per woman. But we should also evangelize Muslims, following the example of Fr. Daniil Sysoyev.


(As for mutaa marriage, it is being practised today only by Shia Muslims, even though Imam Malik agreed with it. But none of the Maliki countries practise this today.)
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« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2010, 04:27:28 AM »

Have More Children and Go Back to Church or Europe Will Become Islamicized: Senior Vatican Official
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2010/sep/10092206.html
ROME, September 22, 2010 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Europe will grow more “Islamicized” if Christian Europeans do not start having more children, and going back to Church, a senior Vatican official said this month. Msgr. Piero Gheddo, a famous missionary and an official with the Vatican’s Pontifical Institute for Foreign Missions, told Zenit news service that Europe’s indigenous inhabitants have abandoned Christianity and are becoming “paganized.”

“The fact is that, as a people, we are becoming ever more pagan and the religious vacuum is inevitably filled by other proposals and religious forces,” said Msgr. Gheddo, who founded AsiaNews, the Christian missionary news service. As religious practice diminishes in Christian Europe, “indifference spreads; Christianity and the Church are attacked.”

“If we consider ourselves a Christian country, we should return to the practice of Chris

Hats off to the individual who proclaimed such a revelation! But... as for indigenous Europeans becoming paganized... well I always thought the Basque people were pretty regular church goers. You learn something new everyday I suppose!
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« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2010, 04:39:00 AM »

Sloga,

Have you followed what happened in Spain during the last years? The president of the government, Zapatero, is an Agnostic, and he has done things such as introducing gay marriage and a pro-choice abortion law. But this only seems to be the latest part of an anduring trend, which is described as follows by Spanish sociologist Alfonso Pérez-Agote:

"The process of the secularization of consciences in Spain evolved in three stages. The first of these began in the 19th century and lasted until the Civil War (1936—1939). This stage was characterized by the growth of a series of movements that opposed the Catholic Church's presumptive monopoly on truth. The second wave corresponded to the spread of consumerism and lasted from the 1960s to the end of the 1980s. In this second stage, we see a loss of interest in the Catholic Church and religion. Spain, traditionally a Catholic country, steadily became a country of Catholic culture; this translated into a progressive decline in the ability of the Church to control social behaviour. A third wave began in the 1990s, since when the majority of the younger generation has been losing all contact with the Catholic Church and religion."


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« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2010, 04:51:30 AM »

Sloga,

Have you followed what happened in Spain during the last years? The president of the government, Zapatero, is an Agnostic, and he has done things such as introducing gay marriage and a pro-choice abortion law. But this only seems to be the latest part of an anduring trend, which is described as follows by Spanish sociologist Alfonso Pérez-Agote:

"The process of the secularization of consciences in Spain evolved in three stages. The first of these began in the 19th century and lasted until the Civil War (1936—1939). This stage was characterized by the growth of a series of movements that opposed the Catholic Church's presumptive monopoly on truth. The second wave corresponded to the spread of consumerism and lasted from the 1960s to the end of the 1980s. In this second stage, we see a loss of interest in the Catholic Church and religion. Spain, traditionally a Catholic country, steadily became a country of Catholic culture; this translated into a progressive decline in the ability of the Church to control social behaviour. A third wave began in the 1990s, since when the majority of the younger generation has been losing all contact with the Catholic Church and religion."

Gorazd,

Actually I'm well aware of the recent secularization of Spain, which is not surprising considering it is an EU country. I also mentioned the Basques, not the Spaniards for a reason. The indigenous people of Europe are often considered to be the Basques, not non-muslims as assumed in the OP. My point is; nothing new, and more importantly, nothing smart was said.

I don't want to risk sending this into politics but its unusual how many of the same countries who have individuals discuss the Islamification of Europe are the same countries (Vatican included) that have helped establish a recent Islamically pure state in Europe.

The issue is an obvious one. Westernization = low birthrate. Islam cannot be westernized thus followers of Islam are like quadratically more likely to have multiple children. Why is the problem discussed while nothing is being done about it.?
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« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2010, 07:26:37 AM »

Simply because the Basque language is unrelated to other European languages, I do not see why they would be "more indigenous".

But even if they were- concerning secularisation, they are developping just the same way as the other peoples of Spain (castillians, catalans, and galicians).
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« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2010, 09:55:12 AM »

Quote from: Sloga
Westernization = low birthrate.
Maybe Christian Europe should be "de-Westernized".
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« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2010, 03:01:33 PM »

4 things that can be done in the U.S. to maintain the Christian influence/presence:

1) Increase birth rate of Christian families

2) Decrease birth rate of Muslim families (westernization)

3) Convert Muslims/Non-Christians to Christianity

4) Restrict Muslim immigration

Well of course there is one other option, but I don't think I will bother to mention it.

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« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2010, 03:18:08 PM »

4 things that can be done in the U.S. to maintain the Christian influence/presence:

1) Increase birth rate of Christian families

2) Decrease birth rate of Muslim families (westernization)

3) Convert Muslims/Non-Christians to Christianity

4) Restrict Muslim immigration

Well of course there is one other option, but I don't think I will bother to mention it.


I think increased education is linked with decreased birth-rate, in general.

So, let's educate those Muslim women. Wink
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"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
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« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2010, 03:58:09 PM »

Okay, I'm with you.  I'm perfectly fine with the idea that everyone in the world has different reasons for concluding that Islam is empty, shallow, vapid, or whatever.  That works for me.

Nice one.
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« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2010, 04:20:12 PM »

Or as our priest put it, the Moslems are obeying God's first commandment to us and we are not - be fruitful and multiply.

I guess it's just a trade.  They are getting Europe and Africa will be ours.

"Ours" only if you group Orthodox Christians with pentecostals of a kind that is in many ways no less heretical than Islam.
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« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2010, 05:03:44 PM »

Or as our priest put it, the Moslems are obeying God's first commandment to us and we are not - be fruitful and multiply.

I guess it's just a trade.  They are getting Europe and Africa will be ours.

"Ours" only if you group Orthodox Christians with pentecostals of a kind that is in many ways no less heretical than Islam.

Perhaps as heretical, but not as dangerous IMO...
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« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2010, 08:00:45 PM »

Or as our priest put it, the Moslems are obeying God's first commandment to us and we are not - be fruitful and multiply.

I guess it's just a trade.  They are getting Europe and Africa will be ours.

"Ours" only if you group Orthodox Christians with pentecostals of a kind that is in many ways no less heretical than Islam.

Perhaps as heretical, but not as dangerous IMO...

That's what I was getting at.  Pentecostals are cancer.  Islam is Ebola.
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Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.
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« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2010, 12:47:33 PM »

Actually, it seems that only in Europe and North America do increased education result in secularism, atheism and decreased demographic growth. In the rest of the world, in India, Africa, the Arabic world,South America, one can seem a religious revival while at the same time we white people cry about our scientific evidence which proves that the world will be without religion in 2100. The classical liberalism of Hegel and its consummation as prophesised by Fukuyama and others today is a lie. People cannot live without a metaphysical-theological basis on which they build their worldview. Even in the Czech Republic, one of the most secularised countries in the white world, people still search for spiritual enlightenment. The Czech people, rejected their mother faith, Catholicism when it was rationalised and all forms of mysticism were rejected by the hierarchy and their useful idiots.
Mysticism is dangerous for the priests and bishops and their scientific theologies but they have to learn how to live with it and guide it. But even today, the Czech search for spiritual nourishment in the Eastern Asian religions but they cannot achieve spiritual fullness because their minds still function in the Christian mold, set out by their ancestors.

I think it is too hasty to say that Christianity has lost hold in Europe. Perhaps in 300, 400 years this will be the case but anything can happen. This can be considered the second or third secularist generation in Europe but still European thought is under the slavery of Christian categories. I have considered that in the future, we might return to ancient Rome, where philosophers fought for the imaginations of the Romans, but these thoughts only brought about a general distrust of spiritual-theoretical science and an evasive relativism, which resulted in an adoration of precise legal formulae. In the end, it was neither the Greek philosophers, nor the Roman lawyers but the poor carpenter from Nazareth, born in Bethlehem, of the root of David who was victorious.

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« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2010, 08:05:29 PM »

Simply because the Basque language is unrelated to other European languages, I do not see why they would be "more indigenous".

perhaps you do not, but I am going by what is considered linguistic, historical and even biological fact. The Basque people and language existed in Europe long before the main migrations into Europe began. Some believe they are descendants of Homo Sapien Sapiens and Cromagnons who crossbred

Quote from: Sloga
Westernization = low birthrate.
Maybe Christian Europe should be "de-Westernized".

the problem [if you wanna call it that] is this: the natural route of Christianity is westernization and thus secularization. Why? We are Christians. If one wants to stray from God, Good luck and Hope to see you again. We do not force our beliefs onto people, it is unchristian. Islam however, is the total opposite. So for anyone to expect any other outcome other than a dramatic increase in Islamic believers vs Christian is unusual. Technically, we are destined to lose the bought against Islam, at least here on earth.
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« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2010, 08:34:31 PM »

Simply because the Basque language is unrelated to other European languages, I do not see why they would be "more indigenous".

perhaps you do not, but I am going by what is considered linguistic, historical and even biological fact. The Basque people and language existed in Europe long before the main migrations into Europe began. Some believe they are descendants of Homo Sapien Sapiens and Cromagnons who crossbred
Cro-Magnons were Homo sapiens sapiens. If you mean that the Basque are Homo sapiens sapiens and Homo sapiens neaderthalensis hybrids, then that's a different story.

« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 08:36:01 PM by Jetavan » Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
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« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2010, 08:49:18 PM »

Simply because the Basque language is unrelated to other European languages, I do not see why they would be "more indigenous".

perhaps you do not, but I am going by what is considered linguistic, historical and even biological fact. The Basque people and language existed in Europe long before the main migrations into Europe began. Some believe they are descendants of Homo Sapien Sapiens and Cromagnons who crossbred
Cro-Magnons were Homo sapiens sapiens. If you mean that the Basque are Homo sapiens sapiens and Homo sapiens neaderthalensis hybrids, then that's a different story.



I apologize; the Homo Sapiens Sapiens I meant were the ones that came out of Africa. My understanding of those things isn't too great but I think I'm at level with most scholars when I say the Basque existence in Europe predates other modern day groups by a long shot.
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« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2010, 09:07:24 AM »

You guys seem to forget about the oldest nation in the Balkans, the Albanians.
No matter how much affection you feel for the Serbs, you cannot deny that the Albanians are the descendents of the original inhabitants of the Balkans and that their culture is the basis of the Balkan nations culture. The Slavs arrived there and destroyed the Illyrian civilisation. Now the Illyrian civilisation is destroying the Slavic civilisation. This just proves that history is a wheel.



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« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2010, 04:31:01 PM »

Now the Illyrian civilisation is destroying the Slavic civilisation. This just proves that history is a wheel.
The Illyrians were Muslim?
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« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2010, 05:33:03 PM »

In the end, it was neither the Greek philosophers, nor the Roman lawyers but the poor carpenter from Nazareth, born in Bethlehem, of the root of David who was victorious.

Amen!
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« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2010, 07:03:47 PM »

Synleska, it's uncertain if the Albanians are descendents of the Illyrians instead of another Balkan people. The Albanian Urheimat is thought to be located further north, probably what is now Croatia. In any event, neither the Slavs nor the Albanians are autochthonous to Kosovo.
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« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2010, 07:53:13 AM »

I disagree. I think that low birth rates are related to the western (and yuppie) thinking of "my career first, then I'll find a love and have children, in a far distant future".
My aunt is 36 and so fascinated for her carrer that she ended three marriages since her 18 years old, all because her husbands wished children, and she didn't.
By the way, she enfatically do not want babies on her life.
It is not because she had a proper education (and she did), but because money is the most important thing on her life, just like millions of others, and babies cocts a lot of money.
Ad Majorem Gloriam Dei.
4 things that can be done in the U.S. to maintain the Christian influence/presence:

1) Increase birth rate of Christian families

2) Decrease birth rate of Muslim families (westernization)

3) Convert Muslims/Non-Christians to Christianity

4) Restrict Muslim immigration

Well of course there is one other option, but I don't think I will bother to mention it.


I think increased education is linked with decreased birth-rate, in general.

So, let's educate those Muslim women. Wink
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Blessed are the pure in the heart, for they shall see God".
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« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2010, 02:04:04 AM »

Synleska, it's uncertain if the Albanians are descendents of the Illyrians instead of another Balkan people. The Albanian Urheimat is thought to be located further north, probably what is now Croatia. In any event, neither the Slavs nor the Albanians are autochthonous to Kosovo.

Then who is? Is it the Aromanians or the mythical Thracians?
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« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2010, 06:35:32 PM »

The Albanian Orthodox Church is growing quite fast, though limited mostly to southern Albania. What about leaving Orthodox monasteries in Kosovo to orthodox Albanians, from southern Albania?
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« Reply #40 on: November 19, 2010, 05:01:03 PM »

I think it is time to re-evangelize Europe. That had been the call of the Catholic Church during the time of Pope John Paul II; it should also be the call of the Orthodox Church now. Europe needs re-evangelization badly, or Islam's march will go on. And along with that, I agree that it is time to re-populate Europe as well. Christians in the Middle East are being wiped out, and soon it might be, ironically, Europe's turn.
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« Reply #41 on: November 19, 2010, 05:19:04 PM »

I think increased education is linked with decreased birth-rate, in general.

So, let's educate those Muslim women. Wink

Yip that's the answer. How about The Church starting a special mission for Muslim girls who would otherwise become child brides for men on the wrong side of 40. This situation is particularly rife in Afghanistan where you have a poor father with 10 kids to support, so to make extra cash he gives his very young daughter to some dirty old man as wife.

Da plan: Christian couples adopt these girls and raise them in Church instead. As it was said earlier "we already have the masses".
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« Reply #42 on: November 19, 2010, 06:57:24 PM »

Yip that's the answer. How about The Church starting a special mission for Muslim girls who would otherwise become child brides for men on the wrong side of 40. This situation is particularly rife in Afghanistan where you have a poor father with 10 kids to support, so to make extra cash he gives his very young daughter to some dirty old man as wife.

The orphanage could not function in-country because of the hostile environment for Christian charities in the Islamic world. Taking the girls out of the country would be difficult because you cannot adopt children overseas unless the government of the child's country gives its permission, and do you really think that an Islamic government is going to allow a steady flow of its children to non-Muslim countries?
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 07:01:09 PM by CRCulver » Logged
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« Reply #43 on: November 19, 2010, 07:14:23 PM »

4 things that can be done in the U.S. to maintain the Christian influence/presence:

1) Increase birth rate of Christian families

2) Decrease birth rate of Muslim families (westernization)

3) Convert Muslims/Non-Christians to Christianity

4) Restrict Muslim immigration

Well of course there is one other option, but I don't think I will bother to mention it.

Now may not be the time to mention it...but it shouldn't be taken off the table either.
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« Reply #44 on: November 19, 2010, 08:08:29 PM »

4 things that can be done in the U.S. to maintain the Christian influence/presence:

1) Increase birth rate of Christian families

2) Decrease birth rate of Muslim families (westernization)

3) Convert Muslims/Non-Christians to Christianity

4) Restrict Muslim immigration

Well of course there is one other option, but I don't think I will bother to mention it.

Now may not be the time to mention it...but it shouldn't be taken off the table either.

I am really quite surprised at the lack of terrorist activities in the U.S. targeted towards Muslims and their places of worship. I thought after 9/11 that people would be blowing up mosques and killing muslims all over the place. For the most part, that hasn't really happened.
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