OrthodoxChristianity.net
December 22, 2014, 11:46:22 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: I feel spiritually homeless  (Read 1220 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Daedelus1138
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Posts: 315


« on: May 25, 2014, 04:11:24 PM »

   It's been months since I parted from the Orthodox Church. I spent years as a catechumen and I must confess, I'm heartsick for it at times. I attend an Old Catholic church but the worship and piety is radically different from Orthodoxy. The music is miserable, the Eucharistic practices are cringe-worthy. I also am not sure I agree always with what is preached (sometimes one of the priests will talk about the Immaculate Conception or Purgatory). I guess I go because I feel I have no other home spiritually and it's hard for me to "make God real" in my life without church.

The reason I left as a catechumen was I struggled for years with the churches teaching about homosexuality, and also the reality that I am unmarried and I'm not sure if I ever could get married ,if my partner would want to join the Orthodox church (if that would even be possible): she would lose her disability if we got married, and I myself am disabled, too. I have friends in the LGBT community and I've even been active at gay community centers and have considered volunteering more there. I didn't start out like that, though... it was only through a lot of prayer and reflection that I came to change my mind (before I had just been ambivalent...if I had not loved God so much I think I would have dismissed God as a practical joker- a devout, serious person like me being drawn to the gays and lesbians? IT was definitely not my comfort zone). The Old Catholic parish is "gay affirming" and most of the clergy there are gay men. I like that aspect but the piety, worship, and some theology is alien to me (It's run of the mill Roman Catholic, even using the same folksy hymnals most Roman Catholics use).

My Orthodox (OCA) priest was sympathetic but thought it was best I try another church, one that was more liberal, and he encouraged me several times to do so over the years, but kept accepting me back into his parish each time I would return and tell him "this just isn't working". I'm not a Protestant and its really hard for me to fit in with those churches. The local Episcopalians are also pretty much Presbyterians with incense, so again, it's difficult to feel at home there (I used to attend an Anglo-Catholic Continuing Anglican parish, many, many years ago), when so much of my spirituality is less about Evangelical Protestant subcultures (men's groups, potluck suppers, emotion-based and God-is-your-buddy spirituality), and more about identifying with "Mere Christianity" with a catholic flavor.

I've thought about talking to the Old Catholic bishop but he deals with a lot of physical disabilities and has been very busy. The few times I've managed to talk to him, he seemed eager to downplay issues like Purgatory when I asked him about it (frankly, I'm not sure what to believe- though I think the idea of "toll houses" is another possibility, just because I know people that have described things like this dealing with death, particularly if the person has "demons" in their past, so to speak). He told me I do not need to agree about any Marian doctrines except that Mary was the Mother of God, yet it seems like all the clergy there do not agree with that assessment (some are old time Roman Catholics, I'd guess).

I just feel so spiritually messed up, a few months ago I went through a horrible period of profound doubt and I fell into some bad habits again and became quite angry. Things felt hopeless. I feel torn between Christian traditions to the point I just wanted to not believe in any of it. This all comes in a period of my life where my life situation has gotten worse too (my disability hearing was delayed, appealed, several times... I lost my driver's license due to government beurocracy, I had a brain tumor scare...).  Needless to say, I feel like I'm spiritually running on empty.
Logged
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Moderated
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14,699



WWW
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2014, 04:46:42 PM »

Lord have mercy.
Logged
mabsoota
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 2,689


Kyrie eleison


« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2014, 04:52:34 PM »

may God give you the peace you seek.

seek first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you
(matthew 6:33)
Logged
homedad76
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 254



« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2014, 05:05:13 PM »

Just for the sake of clarity, is your partner the same gender as you?  Not judging but don't want to give advice if it doesn't fit the actual situation.  No matter what know I am praying for you.

Tim
Logged

"However hard I try, I find it impossible to construct anything greater than these three words, 'Love one another' —only to the end, and without exceptions: then all is justified and life is illumined, whereas otherwise it is an abomination and a burden."

—Mother Maria of Paris
Mor Ephrem
NO TENURE FOR DEPONIO!!
Section Moderator
Stratopedarches
*****
Online Online

Posts: 18,768


"And you shall call his name Jesus..."


WWW
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2014, 05:19:44 PM »

I'm sorry to read about how much you are suffering.  I read your post a couple of times and realised how powerless I felt even to offer you some helpful advice.  I will pray for you.  

I've always been fond of one of the pithy sayings contained in the collection of saying of the Desert Fathers:

Quote
Abba Paul said "Stay close to Jesus."

I was reminded of it when you said "If I had not loved God so much..."  Whatever you do, try to keep that.  It may very well be the spontaneous response of your heart to having first been loved by God even more.  My struggles are not yours, but I've been at points where doubts, bad habits, etc. took over, and it was very hard to "come back".  Only now do I feel I might be making some progress, and I worry every time I'm tempted that I'll fall even lower.  But I'm trying to follow the advice of people as far back as Abba Paul and as close to us as St Porphyrios, to focus on Christ and not on the negative stuff.  

The woman with the issue of blood was healed not by Communion or Baptism or by clay made of saliva or any such thing, but by holding on to the fringe of Christ's clothing as a mob was jostling about.  If you're holding for dear life, that very little bit is enough for him to work with.  
Logged

The Mor has spoken. Let his word endure unto the ages of ages.

Please, James, tell us more about women!
David Young
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Baptist
Jurisdiction: local church, Wrexham, Wales
Posts: 1,847


2012, Presbyterian chapel, Nantyr


« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2014, 05:58:14 PM »

  I struggled for years with the churches teaching about homosexuality,

A tragic post all through. But just one question (no need to answer other than in your own mind): Are you struggling against the Church's teaching on homosexuality, or are you struggling with God's own word in the Old and New Testaments? No one finds peace without agreeing with God, though it can sometimes be hard. May He help and guide you.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 05:58:34 PM by David Young » Logged

"But if you bite and devour one another, take heed that you are not consumed by one another." Galatians 5.15
Daedelus1138
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Posts: 315


« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2014, 06:45:22 PM »

Just for the sake of clarity, is your partner the same gender as you?  Not judging but don't want to give advice if it doesn't fit the actual situation.  No matter what know I am praying for you.

To answer your first question, no... I'm male, she's female.  We are both disabled, she's sterile.

  For a while I actually wondered if I might be gay, because I have adult autism I hadn't explored my sexuality much.   I've been predominantly attracted to women in my life but I had a period in my teenage years where I had, looking back, romantic feelings for my male friends and even attraction. Now days I realize I am not gay... I don't know what I am exactly... bisexual maybe.  It's more common for people on the autism spectrum to not be straight or to be transgender.  I'm definitely not a typical male, and for a while I experimented with the idea that I was transgender.  I choose to be monogamous and faithful to my partner.  

 To answer David's question... I don't consider being gay or gay relationships necessarily sinful (nor do I follow a strictly Biblicist hermeneutic, in fact Orthodoxy wiped that away fairly quickly).   To give some references on the source for my justification for that conclusion, I would refer you to Andrew Marin's Love is an Orientation, Justin Lee's Torn, or Matthew Vines recent book or lectures.  It also came from first-hand experience with the gay community.  The Orthodox doctrine of theosis also made me realize that there is so much more to getting these issues right in this life, people start off in different places and grow and develope, so I refuse to say that God is done with people just because they are different or challenged... or who don't meet moral ideals.

 Aside from the gay issue... I have a lot in common with conservative Christians of various denominations.  I'm uncomfortable identifying as a liberal.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 07:15:13 PM by Daedelus1138 » Logged
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 9,973



« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2014, 07:08:42 PM »

Lord, have mercy on your servant Daedelus.
Logged

Why can't you just take your spiritual edification like a man? 
Daedelus1138
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Posts: 315


« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2014, 07:23:50 PM »

  I suppose why I feel like I need the Church...  I realize it's hard to be a Christian with a church of one.  It's nearly impossible for me.  I need the sacraments, I need spiritual friends... most of all I miss the dignity of worship.     I think the average American doesn't realize how much they live in a culture of death and vanity until stuff is taken away from you or you face struggles.  Then it disgusts you, and you want something else or you turn to drugs or worse.   I need church just to keep my focus on Jesus, otherwise its so easy to get caught up in things that just make your life worse.

  I'm reminded of listening to an interview with the Episcopalian priest Cynthia Bourgeault recently (some things she gets badly wrong but mostly she is right), after all she was mostly talking about her practice of centering prayer which resembles Zen in some ways, and the interviewer was coming from that mindset (that all religions are basically superfluous and meditation is all that matters), she talked about what Jesus means for her, that it's impossible to be open-hearted, authentic and sincere and not get hurt in this life, and Jesus stands at the border of human limitation and bridges the gap with divine grace.  That's more or less how I feel about it, too.  I'd love to just be a good person, but my own attempts at that seem to fail without faith.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 07:32:42 PM by Daedelus1138 » Logged
homedad76
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 254



« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2014, 07:34:46 PM »

I have struggled with a lot of the same issues you have.   I consider myself to be "sexually open minded" but have made the conscious choice to live as a monogamous heterosexual.  But I also don't define myself or anyone else based on who they want to have sex with.

I have friends who are gay and I will defend them as human beings against any bullying but they also know I believe their sexual behaviors are wrong.  At least I assume they do, it does not really come up.

The point is there is no reason you could not find shelter in the arms of the Church and still maintain friendships in the gay community.   I would suggest going to a few vespers services if you can,  sit by yourself and just pray while your whole self takes in everything.   I hope you find the peace you are looking for.

I will pray for you.
Logged

"However hard I try, I find it impossible to construct anything greater than these three words, 'Love one another' —only to the end, and without exceptions: then all is justified and life is illumined, whereas otherwise it is an abomination and a burden."

—Mother Maria of Paris
hecma925
Non-clairvoyant
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 7,319


Pray for me, a sinner.


WWW
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2014, 07:40:23 PM »

Lord, have mercy.
Logged

Porter ODoran
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catechumen
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese
Posts: 2,327


Erst Amish Appalachian


WWW
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2014, 07:54:30 PM »

Lord, have mercy.
Logged

In love did God create the world; in love does he guide it ...; in love is he going wondrously to transform it. --Abba Isaac

Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity. --Climacus
SolEX01
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of New Jersey
Posts: 11,835


WWW
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2014, 11:07:40 PM »

Lord have mercy.
Logged
Porter ODoran
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catechumen
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese
Posts: 2,327


Erst Amish Appalachian


WWW
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2014, 12:42:55 AM »

Daedelus1138, do you have close gay friends?
Logged

In love did God create the world; in love does he guide it ...; in love is he going wondrously to transform it. --Abba Isaac

Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity. --Climacus
Daedelus1138
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Posts: 315


« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2014, 01:39:19 AM »

Daedelus1138, do you have close gay friends?

  Not many, anymore.   I don't get out as much as I did a few years ago.   We have some shared lesbian friends, and I used to be friends with an elderly gay man but he's been sick in the past year (sadly I'm not sure he's even alive).
« Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 01:55:02 AM by Daedelus1138 » Logged
Nephi
Monster Tamer
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Non-Chalcedonian Byzantine
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch
Posts: 4,735



« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2014, 02:10:01 AM »

Lord have mercy. Like others I can't find sufficient words to help, but I really hope things work out for the best for you.
Logged
David Young
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Baptist
Jurisdiction: local church, Wrexham, Wales
Posts: 1,847


2012, Presbyterian chapel, Nantyr


« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2014, 04:20:48 AM »

I had a period in my teenage years where I had, looking back, romantic feelings for my male friends and even attraction.

... I don't consider being gay or gay relationships necessarily sinful

The first is, I believe, very common and a perfectly natural temporary stage in growing up. It need not trouble you at all.

Regarding the second, you are right: it is no more wrong to be drawn to members of one's own sex than it is to be drawn to members of the opposite sex. What God forbids in both Testaments is any sex outside of marriage, with marriage being one man and one woman. I see no moral difference between a chaste homosexual and a chaste heterosexual bachelor, though the latter may be helped by a sustaining hope which the former is fobidden to entertain.

The Lord guide you.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 04:21:16 AM by David Young » Logged

"But if you bite and devour one another, take heed that you are not consumed by one another." Galatians 5.15
Porter ODoran
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catechumen
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese
Posts: 2,327


Erst Amish Appalachian


WWW
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2014, 10:07:43 AM »

Daedelus1138, do you have close gay friends?

  Not many, anymore.   I don't get out as much as I did a few years ago.   We have some shared lesbian friends, and I used to be friends with an elderly gay man but he's been sick in the past year (sadly I'm not sure he's even alive).


I asked to make sure this is a matter of personal importance to you, since, as you describe, it is costing you so much.
Logged

In love did God create the world; in love does he guide it ...; in love is he going wondrously to transform it. --Abba Isaac

Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity. --Climacus
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,174



« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2014, 12:34:08 PM »

Hi Daedelus. I feel like I want to say something here, but I still trying to figure out what.

For the moment, a clarification. You say,

(I used to attend an Anglo-Catholic Continuing Anglican parish, many, many years ago)
Do you mean that's a parish near you that you're no longer interested in, or a parish somewhere you used to live?

God bless you,
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
Daedelus1138
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Posts: 315


« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2014, 04:37:39 AM »

Do you mean that's a parish near you that you're no longer interested in, or a parish somewhere you used to live?

  Both.
Logged
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,174



« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2014, 06:23:01 AM »

Do you mean that's a parish near you that you're no longer interested in, or a parish somewhere you used to live?

  Both.

Alright ... although I'm now thinking I should have made the question more specific: is conservative high-church Anglicanism, in general, something you no longer care for, or just that particular parish?
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
Daedelus1138
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Posts: 315


« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2014, 10:47:00 PM »

Alright ... although I'm now thinking I should have made the question more specific: is conservative high-church Anglicanism, in general, something you no longer care for, or just that particular parish?

  It's not that close to home and I'm just slightly too liberal for Continuing Churches, now.   By Episcopalian standards, I'm really quite moderate, though.
Logged
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 9,973



« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2014, 10:49:50 PM »

We have everything from far left wing liberals to tea party type people in our parish, yet everyone seems to get along pretty well. Why bring political ideology into church? I go for my own salvation, not to discuss politics.
Logged

Why can't you just take your spiritual edification like a man? 
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,123


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2014, 12:34:31 AM »

We have everything from far left wing liberals to tea party type people in our parish, yet everyone seems to get along pretty well. Why bring political ideology into church? I go for my own salvation, not to discuss politics.

I wasn't aware human sexuality was chiefly a political issue.
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
Daedelus1138
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Posts: 315


« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2014, 03:51:03 AM »

We have everything from far left wing liberals to tea party type people in our parish, yet everyone seems to get along pretty well. Why bring political ideology into church? I go for my own salvation, not to discuss politics.

    I think I am in agreement with James... that's not what I mean by "conservative" or "liberal" at all.  I mean I am moderate in terms of a broad range of theological issues facing church denominations today.   I feel moderate describes me well, overall, as I don't tend to mindlessly follow one way or the other (one area some might see me as being conservative, for instance- I largely reject inclusive language about God except as metaphor, and yet my attitudes about human sexuality are on the moderate to liberal wing of mainline Protestantism).  

 
« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 03:55:48 AM by Daedelus1138 » Logged
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,174



« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2014, 06:04:19 AM »

By Episcopalian standards, I'm really quite moderate, though.

Gotya.
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
jah777
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 1,984


« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2014, 07:56:43 AM »

I'm sure that many of us on this forum who are Orthodox Christians have come from similar backgrounds and struggled with the same questions regarding homosexuality and other issues.  The Orthodox Church is at odds with what our contemporary society has been indoctrinated by the media and our politicians to believe regarding moral issues such as homosexuality.  Many of us struggled with either doctrines or moral teachings when considering Orthodoxy, but at some point one has to ask what is the truth and be willing to abandon any personal opinions or beliefs that are not in accord with the truth.  Any departure from truth is a departure from Christ.  With over 2,000 yrs of experience, the saints and Fathers resolved and clarified so many things with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, not leaving a great deal to idle speculation and question.  This is especially true in the area of sexual relations between two people of the same sex.  If we do not understand what the Church has taught and proclaimed from the beginning, we should humble ourselves and struggle to understand, and not reject Christ and His Church in favor of our own opinions. 

I'm sure you have read and heard much on this subject, but essentially it comes down to the fact that the miserable state you are in will continue as long as you refuse to accept the Church's teachings and choose to remain outside of the Church's grace-filled sacramental life. 
Logged
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 9,973



« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2014, 08:36:09 AM »

We have everything from far left wing liberals to tea party type people in our parish, yet everyone seems to get along pretty well. Why bring political ideology into church? I go for my own salvation, not to discuss politics.

I wasn't aware human sexuality was chiefly a political issue.
Unfortunately, it has been made into one.
Logged

Why can't you just take your spiritual edification like a man? 
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 9,973



« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2014, 08:44:57 AM »

We have everything from far left wing liberals to tea party type people in our parish, yet everyone seems to get along pretty well. Why bring political ideology into church? I go for my own salvation, not to discuss politics.

    I think I am in agreement with James... that's not what I mean by "conservative" or "liberal" at all.  I mean I am moderate in terms of a broad range of theological issues facing church denominations today.   I feel moderate describes me well, overall, as I don't tend to mindlessly follow one way or the other (one area some might see me as being conservative, for instance- I largely reject inclusive language about God except as metaphor, and yet my attitudes about human sexuality are on the moderate to liberal wing of mainline Protestantism).  

What I meant was, if you believe that the Orthodox Church is the one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, I wouldn't let the human sexuality debate stand in the way of your salvation.  While I may (or maybe not, I don't know) disagree with your thoughts on human sexuality, there are people in the Church all across the spectrum on the issue.  I'm sure you are aware of Archbishop Lazar Puhalo; he has found a home in Orthodoxy while holding to rather liberal views on the subject. I'm not necessarily advocating following in his footsteps, but my point is you, myself or anyone is never going to find a church that meets every opinion that someone might hold.  I wouldn't even want that in a church. Church is not a checklist where everything that it teaches must be in line with your own personal beliefs. We belong to a church because it assists us on our path to salvation, not to discuss the hot social issues of the day.
Logged

Why can't you just take your spiritual edification like a man? 
Daedelus1138
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Posts: 315


« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2014, 09:19:51 AM »

We belong to a church because it assists us on our path to salvation, not to discuss the hot social issues of the day.

  That's how I feel about it too.  While I do not agree with everything the Orthodox Church teaches, it is hard to argue against its general approach to the Christian life.

  I'm familiar with Archbishop Lazar and I have exchanged brief e-mails with him a few times a few years ago.  Perhaps I should ask him about some of these issues and see what he thinks I should do.  I know in a recent interview on Patheos with Frank Schaeffer discussing transgender individuals, he mentioned the OCA has asked him to refrain from publicly discussing homosexuality as an authority in the Church.

  The Independent Catholic church I am attending seems to be problematic- the denomination has reformed so many times and shrunk that I wonder if it isn't just becoming an episcopi vagantes type group where the theology and practice will be at the whim of the bishop.  And I confronted the bishop in an e-mail and told him about my spiritual problems and he basically directed me to a catechism class being taught this summer by a retired Catholic priest that is  with the parish, but gave me little advice.  I never had that sort of treatment in the Orthodox parish I was attending, Fr. Daniel was always willing to talk to me face to face if I booked an appointment, and he was also eager to give me some spiritual guidance when he saw problems in my life that he could help.  

  I need to do a bit more prayer, reflection, and discussion... I may start attending Divine Liturgy again and see how that goes.  Or I may go in an entirely different religious direction (I have thought about returning to my childhood religion of Methodism).  One thing I do feel is that God is showing me to take care of myself and my earthly relationships, and not let myself get lost spiritually, which is why I'm becoming much more cautious about the Independent Catholic parish.  I've seriously lapsed in the Christian faith several times in the past years and I'd like a church that takes it seriously.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 09:25:31 AM by Daedelus1138 » Logged
jah777
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 1,984


« Reply #30 on: June 02, 2014, 09:56:02 AM »

We belong to a church because it assists us on our path to salvation, not to discuss the hot social issues of the day.

  I'm familiar with Archbishop Lazar and I have exchanged brief e-mails with him a few times a few years ago.  Perhaps I should ask him about some of these issues and see what he thinks I should do.  

This is a very bad idea.  Abp Lazar has never served as an active bishop in the Orthodox Church and he has been the cause of much theological and doctrinal controversy since the 1970s.  He served as a deacon in the Orthodox Church in the 1970s but was deposed for his disobedience and false teachings and then spent decades with various non-Orthodox sects until the OCA decided to receive him.  The OCA allowed him to retain the title "Archbishop" but immediately placed him in retirement without the right or authority to participate in the Synod or conduct any of the duties of an active bishop. 

Abp Lazar may tell you something that you would like to hear, but these may simply be his own views, and these may be at great odds with Orthodox teaching.  There are many bishops who have fallen into heresy over the years, which is why we are always encouraged to look at the consensus of what the saints and Fathers have taught since the time of Christ, and not simply adopt any novel belief that some bishop or priest happens to teach.  A false teaching does not become true just by being uttered by a man who holds the title of "Archbishop".
Logged
Daedelus1138
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Posts: 315


« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2014, 10:03:42 AM »

Abp Lazar may tell you something that you would like to hear, but these may simply be his own views, and these may be at great odds with Orthodox teaching. 

  I wouldn't be asking for Archbishop Lazar's views on human sexuality. I would be asking him for specific spiritual advice.   
Logged
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 9,973



« Reply #32 on: June 02, 2014, 10:10:00 AM »

Despite my differences w/ Archbishop Lazar and his teachings, I do not think it would be a bad thing at all to speak with him about how he reconciles his personal beliefs with maintaining an active role in the Church. It is my understanding that this is more of an intellectual struggle for Daedelus as opposed to a personal one (ie. Daedelus is not gay), and Archbishop Lazar is probably a good resource to address it.
Logged

Why can't you just take your spiritual edification like a man? 
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,123


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2014, 12:05:15 PM »

Despite my differences w/ Archbishop Lazar and his teachings, I do not think it would be a bad thing at all to speak with him about how he reconciles his personal beliefs with maintaining an active role in the Church. It is my understanding that this is more of an intellectual struggle for Daedelus as opposed to a personal one (ie. Daedelus is not gay), and Archbishop Lazar is probably a good resource to address it.

Does he have to be gay for it to be a personal struggle?  I am not of any ethnic minority (about 85% of my maternal ancestors are of English stock, and 15% are Irish; 100% of my paternal ancestors are Austrian and German), but racism is an issue that is much, much more than just an "intellectual" issue to me.  I am male, yet sexism is much more than just an "intellectual" issue to me, as is having women clergy. 

You don't have to be directly impacted by something for it to be personal.
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 13,501


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #34 on: June 02, 2014, 12:10:59 PM »

  I struggled for years with the churches teaching about homosexuality,

A tragic post all through. But just one question (no need to answer other than in your own mind): Are you struggling against the Church's teaching on homosexuality, or are you struggling with God's own word in the Old and New Testaments? No one finds peace without agreeing with God, though it can sometimes be hard. May He help and guide you.

Let's rephrase this: Are you struggling with the teachings of God's own Church or how you are interpreting scripture?

That's better.
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 9,973



« Reply #35 on: June 02, 2014, 12:31:59 PM »

Despite my differences w/ Archbishop Lazar and his teachings, I do not think it would be a bad thing at all to speak with him about how he reconciles his personal beliefs with maintaining an active role in the Church. It is my understanding that this is more of an intellectual struggle for Daedelus as opposed to a personal one (ie. Daedelus is not gay), and Archbishop Lazar is probably a good resource to address it.

Does he have to be gay for it to be a personal struggle?  I am not of any ethnic minority (about 85% of my maternal ancestors are of English stock, and 15% are Irish; 100% of my paternal ancestors are Austrian and German), but racism is an issue that is much, much more than just an "intellectual" issue to me.  I am male, yet sexism is much more than just an "intellectual" issue to me, as is having women clergy. 

You don't have to be directly impacted by something for it to be personal.
How is racism and sexism personal to you?

I find both abhorrent, but to attempt to equate my distaste of them with how a minority deals with racism or a woman deals with sexism is to significantly cheapen their struggles. It simply isn't personal with me the same way it is with them.
Logged

Why can't you just take your spiritual edification like a man? 
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,123


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #36 on: June 02, 2014, 11:21:03 PM »

Despite my differences w/ Archbishop Lazar and his teachings, I do not think it would be a bad thing at all to speak with him about how he reconciles his personal beliefs with maintaining an active role in the Church. It is my understanding that this is more of an intellectual struggle for Daedelus as opposed to a personal one (ie. Daedelus is not gay), and Archbishop Lazar is probably a good resource to address it.

Does he have to be gay for it to be a personal struggle?  I am not of any ethnic minority (about 85% of my maternal ancestors are of English stock, and 15% are Irish; 100% of my paternal ancestors are Austrian and German), but racism is an issue that is much, much more than just an "intellectual" issue to me.  I am male, yet sexism is much more than just an "intellectual" issue to me, as is having women clergy. 

You don't have to be directly impacted by something for it to be personal.
How is racism and sexism personal to you?

I find both abhorrent, but to attempt to equate my distaste of them with how a minority deals with racism or a woman deals with sexism is to significantly cheapen their struggles. It simply isn't personal with me the same way it is with them.

"the same way it is with them."  I totally agree.  Neither of those is personal for me in "the same way" racism is for a black man, or sexism is for a woman.  But that in no way makes racism and sexism a mere "intellectual" issue to me.
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.122 seconds with 65 queries.