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Author Topic: "Are you Catholic or Christian?"  (Read 2792 times) Average Rating: 0
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theistgal
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« Reply #45 on: September 21, 2010, 03:13:25 PM »

If you're trying to get my goat today, stashko, no such luck - my goat's in a good mood today! Grin
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« Reply #46 on: September 21, 2010, 03:29:34 PM »

If you're trying to get my goat today, stashko, no such luck - my goat's in a good mood today! Grin
I don't quite Follow ,but if you mean
No it wasn't meant for you ,but for the one that accused me of pushing buttons and called me a troll.....Thats the One i m telling to ignore my posts....
a certain smiley  seems to bother him....which i won't use here..Maybe ill retire the smiley or find a more pleasing neutral one...
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« Reply #47 on: September 21, 2010, 03:37:28 PM »


well, it's a rare Greek Orthodox that will preach Christ, let alone listen to their bishop..all are mostly interested Is Party Party,,,,Let the Good times roll...

Oh yeah.   Grin

How would this rebut the complaint that Stashko is making about the RCs?

It's pointing out that the same phenomenon he's using to mock RCs happens within his own communion.
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« Reply #48 on: September 21, 2010, 04:04:48 PM »


well, it's a rare Greek Orthodox that will preach Christ, let alone listen to their bishop..all are mostly interested Is Party Party,,,,Let the Good times roll...

Oh yeah.   Grin

How would this rebut the complaint that Stashko is making about the RCs?

It's pointing out that the same phenomenon he's using to mock RCs happens within his own communion.

Stop reading things that arn't there in my posts...
Why would you say im mocking anyone ...Im talking about my experiences dealing with quite a fews catholics ,if religion is discussed,it come to the holy father said this or that ,lots of catholics don't know scripture to quote what Christ Said...But they can tell you what the pope said or didn't... thats why i said hence the possable confusion for the protestants and they  don't associate catholics with christian..Ask a Catholic what he is, and he will say,  Oh Im Catholic ,but mostly never say Im a Catholic  Christian...More confusion..For the Protestants...

If Some askes me what religion i Am ,i tell them Im A Orthodox Christian..All the time.....If i say serbian Orthodox Christian and they don't understand ,then ill say same as Greek Orthodox Christian ,then they understand ,what im talking about...
« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 04:12:46 PM by stashko » Logged

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« Reply #49 on: September 21, 2010, 04:25:07 PM »

Quote
I would say ,for the Protestants It's confusing ,When A catholic Talks it's about the pope,and not much about what Christ said, but what the Pope said...I could understand where there coming from.....The Pope said This and That.....

Note that there are no qualifiers in your initial statement: "When A catholic Talks it's about the pope."

This is, on the bald face of it, a very generalized statement that includes all Catholics. 

Of course, you always later backpedal when confronted about your stereotypes and come up with qualifiers to make your original statement seem more palpable and less a caricature, but you still never learn to think before you type and especially before you hit the Post button.

Is this what you want to do before God, stashko?  Do you want to backpedal when you are face to face with the Most High and say, "Lord, Lord, I didn't mean that, I meant this?"

The Saints and Fathers tell us to keep our mouths shut and when we do speak, we speak with conviction, clarity and honesty.

I (and others) keep telling you that it is in your best interest, in this forum's best interest, and in the best interest of those who have trouble understanding your intent (and please don't act shocked that you didn't know this was the case) to think about what others will read into your phrasing and word choice before you finalize your post by hitting that Post button. 
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« Reply #50 on: September 21, 2010, 04:40:21 PM »

Quote
I would say ,for the Protestants It's confusing ,When A catholic Talks it's about the pope,and not much about what Christ said, but what the Pope said...I could understand where there coming from.....The Pope said This and That.....

Note that there are no qualifiers in your initial statement: "When A catholic Talks it's about the pope."

This is, on the bald face of it, a very generalized statement that includes all Catholics.  

Of course, you always later backpedal when confronted about your stereotypes and come up with qualifiers to make your original statement seem more palpable and less a caricature, but you still never learn to think before you type and especially before you hit the Post button.

Is this what you want to do before God, stashko?  Do you want to backpedal when you are face to face with the Most High and say, "Lord, Lord, I didn't mean that, I meant this?"

The Saints and Fathers tell us to keep our mouths shut and when we do speak, we speak with conviction, clarity and honesty.

I (and others) keep telling you that it is in your best interest, in this forum's best interest, and in the best interest of those who have trouble understanding your intent (and please don't act shocked that you didn't know this was the case) to think about what others will read into your phrasing and word choice before you finalize your post by hitting that Post button.  

Im not back pedaling your just reading to to much into it what isn't there....Thats All..Or your making your Judgment also on the Grinning smiley i been over indulging by using it quite a bit lately...
« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 04:50:48 PM by stashko » Logged

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« Reply #51 on: September 21, 2010, 05:29:25 PM »

Quote
I would say ,for the Protestants It's confusing ,When A catholic Talks it's about the pope,and not much about what Christ said, but what the Pope said...I could understand where there coming from.....The Pope said This and That.....

Note that there are no qualifiers in your initial statement: "When A catholic Talks it's about the pope."

This is, on the bald face of it, a very generalized statement that includes all Catholics.  

Of course, you always later backpedal when confronted about your stereotypes and come up with qualifiers to make your original statement seem more palpable and less a caricature, but you still never learn to think before you type and especially before you hit the Post button.

Is this what you want to do before God, stashko?  Do you want to backpedal when you are face to face with the Most High and say, "Lord, Lord, I didn't mean that, I meant this?"

The Saints and Fathers tell us to keep our mouths shut and when we do speak, we speak with conviction, clarity and honesty.

I (and others) keep telling you that it is in your best interest, in this forum's best interest, and in the best interest of those who have trouble understanding your intent (and please don't act shocked that you didn't know this was the case) to think about what others will read into your phrasing and word choice before you finalize your post by hitting that Post button.  

Im not back pedaling your just reading to to much into it what isn't there....Thats All..Or your making your Judgment also on the Grinning smiley i been over indulging by using it quite a bit lately...
You have a history here, stashko, too much of a history for you to get away with this sophistry regarding just one post.  Communication is about reading, but it's also about making sure you write clearly so people find it hard to misunderstand you.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 05:30:59 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #52 on: September 21, 2010, 08:05:43 PM »

"Are you Catholic or Christian?"

Such a funny question. Catholics believe in Christ, and Christians believe in a Catholic and Apostolic Church.

It's the same as asking "do farm turkeys usually scuba dive or fly above the clouds?" Answering with either doesn't make sense.
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« Reply #53 on: September 21, 2010, 09:50:30 PM »

..Ask a Catholic what he is, and he will say,  Oh Im Catholic ,but mostly never say Im a Catholic  Christian...
Yes, that is true in my case. If I am asked if I am a Christian, I will say No, that I am not a Christian; I'm a Catholic. Of course, it is supposed to be kind of an inside joke. 
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« Reply #54 on: September 22, 2010, 12:46:49 AM »

I don't know about that. At least 10% of the Romanists I know would self-identify as "Catholic Christian".
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« Reply #55 on: September 22, 2010, 12:50:03 AM »

Logic 101: not all Christians are Catholics, but all Catholics are* Christians.

(*at least nominally)

Therefore, Catholics don't feel the need to add "Christian" to their name.
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« Reply #56 on: September 22, 2010, 12:52:19 AM »

Logic 101: not all Christians are Catholics, but all Catholics are* Christians.

(*at least nominally)

Therefore, Catholics don't feel the need to add "Christian" to their name.

...

Many more "Eastern Orthodox" and Oriental Orthodox I know add "Christian" to then end of their religious identification.  Undecided

Also, not everyone agrees that you are Christians. So I would think that the best counter of that would be to clarify your self-identification as "Catholic Christian".
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« Reply #57 on: September 22, 2010, 01:43:41 AM »

Why?  The people who think Catholics aren't Christians aren't going to think differently just because we add the word "Christian" to our name.
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« Reply #58 on: September 22, 2010, 01:49:32 AM »

Why?  The people who think Catholics aren't Christians aren't going to think differently just because we add the word "Christian" to our name.

I guess not.

But it does seem to me to be more common than others are saying.
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« Reply #59 on: September 22, 2010, 08:24:34 AM »

I think that only Catholics (and this includes Orthodox Catholics, although I am Roman Catholic) are truly Christians, all others are followers of men.
it's on the sentence:
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« Reply #60 on: September 22, 2010, 08:31:59 AM »

Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus.

Did you know that the man who originally said that believed that schismatics did not have authentic Sacraments?

So much for following the teachings of Saint Cyprian.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #61 on: September 22, 2010, 08:33:33 AM »

The dichotomy seems to be fairly ingrained in some places, even where you wouldn't expect it. I have observed the "Catholic-Christian" distinction being made not just by Protestants, but by ignorant Roman Catholics, e.g. RC's describing Protestants as "Christians" as opposed to their "Catholic" selves.
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« Reply #62 on: September 22, 2010, 08:36:10 AM »

A quick, dumb "informational" video that distinguishes Orthodox Easter from Western "Christian Easter":  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvfoYXrFxW0
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« Reply #63 on: September 22, 2010, 09:16:11 AM »

Another possible answer..."I'm a Catholic Christian. It's far better than being a Cathameric Christian, isn't it?"

Hopefully, the concept will instigue some curiosity. "μέρος" (méros) is the Greek word for "part" or "piece". Truly, all heterodoxies differ from the Catholic faith in that they choose one part (hence the word "heresy", meaning "to choose") over the whole, either by putting them aside, or by reading the whole as determined by this piece of the Church.

All the heterodoxies are in fact "Cathameric" churches, choosing one part of the Tradition over the fullness of what Our Lord has given us.
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« Reply #64 on: September 22, 2010, 09:38:30 AM »

Just thought of this:  How about asking them if they are (their denomination:  Baptist, Methodist, Interdenominational. . .etc) or Christian?

Maybe they'll get the point?
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« Reply #65 on: September 22, 2010, 10:19:21 AM »

Another possible answer..."I'm a Catholic Christian. It's far better than being a Cathameric Christian, isn't it?"

Hopefully, the concept will instigue some curiosity. "μέρος" (méros) is the Greek word for "part" or "piece". Truly, all heterodoxies differ from the Catholic faith in that they choose one part (hence the word "heresy", meaning "to choose") over the whole, either by putting them aside, or by reading the whole as determined by this piece of the Church.

All the heterodoxies are in fact "Cathameric" churches, choosing one part of the Tradition over the fullness of what Our Lord has given us.
I like it.
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« Reply #66 on: September 22, 2010, 11:09:12 AM »

I had another thought - see if this makes sense (haven't yet had my morning Yerba Mate so it might not! Cheesy ):

When someone says "I'm a Catholic", most people will assume Roman Catholic, which most people know as being at least someform of "Christian".

However, if you say, "I'm Orthodox", a lot of people will wait for you to continue with either "...Jewish" or "... Christian", since the term "Orthodox" all by itself could conceivably refer to either well-known group.

Make sense? Good, then join me in a cuppa, woncha? Smiley
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« Reply #67 on: September 22, 2010, 11:18:09 AM »

I had another thought - see if this makes sense (haven't yet had my morning Yerba Mate so it might not! Cheesy ):
...
Good, then join me in a cuppa, woncha? Smiley
So you drink Yerba Mate? The real stuff, I hope. I spent three years in Paraguay in the 80s and learned to enjoy it. I prefer tereré (cold mate), but do make mate cocido occasionally, which from context is probably what you enjoy. Sometimes I make it from scratch, but I have a jar of instant mate that I dip into from time to time. I've tried the "tea bag" route, but don't enjoy that anymore than I enjoy tea made from a bag. Yes, I know I'm fussy - but I'm worth it  Cheesy.
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« Reply #68 on: September 22, 2010, 11:44:44 AM »

genesisone, I'm very unorthodox (obviously! Cheesy ) - I brew it in my coffee percolator. Smiley
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« Reply #69 on: September 22, 2010, 12:19:49 PM »

I had another thought - see if this makes sense (haven't yet had my morning Yerba Mate so it might not! Cheesy ):

When someone says "I'm a Catholic", most people will assume Roman Catholic, which most people know as being at least someform of "Christian".

However, if you say, "I'm Orthodox", a lot of people will wait for you to continue with either "...Jewish" or "... Christian", since the term "Orthodox" all by itself could conceivably refer to either well-known group.

Make sense? Good, then join me in a cuppa, woncha? Smiley

Yerba Mate is for the "hermanos". Here in Brazil, in the South, we drink Chimarrão.  Smiley Smiley Smiley

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« Reply #70 on: September 22, 2010, 01:23:26 PM »

It's a moot point because I changed my mind and went to Starbucks.  Cappuccino, anyone? Wink
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« Reply #71 on: September 22, 2010, 01:36:14 PM »

CHIMASCHIMASCHIMASCHIMAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, back to the point...
It's also usual to refer to protestants as "evangelicals", however it is a mistake, since "evangelical" refers to a person who follows the good news of Christ (Ευαγγέλιο).
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« Reply #72 on: September 22, 2010, 05:53:23 PM »

The dichotomy seems to be fairly ingrained in some places, even where you wouldn't expect it. I have observed the "Catholic-Christian" distinction being made not just by Protestants, but by ignorant Roman Catholics, e.g. RC's describing Protestants as "Christians" as opposed to their "Catholic" selves.

Ditto.
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« Reply #73 on: October 07, 2013, 06:20:43 PM »

"Are you Catholic or Christian?"

Such a funny question. Catholics believe in Christ, and Christians believe in a Catholic and Apostolic Church.

It's the same as asking "do farm turkeys usually scuba dive or fly above the clouds?" Answering with either doesn't make sense.

Actually, the answer would be "both," but that can be misleading.
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« Reply #74 on: October 07, 2013, 06:34:33 PM »

If I may make a suggestion, we should add "Christ-follower" to that question for the Evangelical-it's-not-a-religion-it's-a-relationship thing category of Christians.
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« Reply #75 on: October 07, 2013, 08:54:08 PM »

Around here, if someone told a Catholic they weren't a Christian, they might get punched in the face. Either that or someone would call the psychiatric ward.

I would probably opt for a yo momma joke.
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« Reply #76 on: October 07, 2013, 09:16:01 PM »

This thread is old, but it should nevertheless be pointed out that there are Christian communities that don't consider Roman Catholics to be Christian; hence, the false dichotomy. Just talk to people who converted to Catholicism from Southern Baptist or Pentecostal (which isn't to suggest that all members of those groups hold such views). If these groups knew what the heck an Orthodox Christian was, they'd probably think the same thing (only we don't have the whole "pope worship" thing going for us).
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« Reply #77 on: October 07, 2013, 09:50:51 PM »

OP,

I would say they are  Christian , but they can be Baptist, Catholic, Orthodox or any other specific group of Christian.

Without getting too deep into the subject, this is about as far as I would go.  If they don't understand this, you'll be wasting your time with more info.
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« Reply #78 on: October 07, 2013, 09:52:30 PM »

This thread is old, but it should nevertheless be pointed out that there are Christian communities that don't consider Roman Catholics to be Christian; hence, the false dichotomy. Just talk to people who converted to Catholicism from Southern Baptist or Pentecostal (which isn't to suggest that all members of those groups hold such views). If these groups knew what the heck an Orthodox Christian was, they'd probably think the same thing (only we don't have the whole "pope worship" thing going for us).
Nor do Catholics.
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« Reply #79 on: October 07, 2013, 10:04:14 PM »

This thread is old, but it should nevertheless be pointed out that there are Christian communities that don't consider Roman Catholics to be Christian; hence, the false dichotomy. Just talk to people who converted to Catholicism from Southern Baptist or Pentecostal (which isn't to suggest that all members of those groups hold such views). If these groups knew what the heck an Orthodox Christian was, they'd probably think the same thing (only we don't have the whole "pope worship" thing going for us).
Nor do Catholics.

I think lovesupreme was giving the average Baptist or Pentecostal view; not asserting that Catholic do in fact worship the Pope. There are quotation marks there after all.
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Kerdy
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« Reply #80 on: October 07, 2013, 10:08:02 PM »

This thread is old, but it should nevertheless be pointed out that there are Christian communities that don't consider Roman Catholics to be Christian; hence, the false dichotomy. Just talk to people who converted to Catholicism from Southern Baptist or Pentecostal (which isn't to suggest that all members of those groups hold such views). If these groups knew what the heck an Orthodox Christian was, they'd probably think the same thing (only we don't have the whole "pope worship" thing going for us).
Nor do Catholics.

I think lovesupreme was giving the average Baptist or Pentecostal view; not asserting that Catholic do in fact worship the Pope. There are quotation marks there after all.
Of course, but what a great opportunity to educate someone, especially coming from someone who isn't Catholic. 
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Nephi
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« Reply #81 on: October 07, 2013, 10:18:38 PM »

If I may make a suggestion, we should add "Christ-follower" to that question for the Evangelical-it's-not-a-religion-it's-a-relationship thing category of Christians.

On this note, I do find it amusing when post-Evangelical sorts decry labeling themselves Christian because of the "negative connotations and meaning" behind it... (Insert the verse that every Antiochian publication ever uses about first being called Christian).

Then there's this awful parody series.
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lovesupreme
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« Reply #82 on: October 08, 2013, 01:08:23 AM »

This thread is old, but it should nevertheless be pointed out that there are Christian communities that don't consider Roman Catholics to be Christian; hence, the false dichotomy. Just talk to people who converted to Catholicism from Southern Baptist or Pentecostal (which isn't to suggest that all members of those groups hold such views). If these groups knew what the heck an Orthodox Christian was, they'd probably think the same thing (only we don't have the whole "pope worship" thing going for us).
Nor do Catholics.

I think lovesupreme was giving the average Baptist or Pentecostal view; not asserting that Catholic do in fact worship the Pope. There are quotation marks there after all.

Of course, but what a great opportunity to educate someone, especially coming from someone who isn't Catholic. 

Nephi is correct.

And if you mean that we ought to correct people when we hear them charge Catholics of pope worship, yes, I agree. However, my understanding is that the Pope can often serve as a common target of antagonism between Orthodox and Protestants, leading both to make exacerbated claims about the Roman Catholic Church's teachings on the papacy. Unfortunately, those claims tend to be reinforced by the so-called "neo-Catholic" groups, whose support for the papacy sometimes borders on fanaticism, much to the ire of traditionalist groups.

It's a topic I admittedly know little about, but this is the sense I get from some of the comments I've read on these forums.
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I am prone to bouts of sarcasm. Please forgive me if my posts have offended you.
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