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Author Topic: The Orthodox in Brazil too ethnic  (Read 1731 times) Average Rating: 0
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peccatorum
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« on: September 19, 2010, 09:33:57 AM »

Hello!
I am Brazilian and I do not know many of these people you're talking about, but here it goes...
well, I read someone writing that in Canada there are ghettos of Ukrainian, Greek, etc, etc, etc...
I feel a lot like this.
When I converted to Christianity (although my country is actually christian, I was not), i did it through orthodoxy, I even wished to be priest...
But truth comes...
Unfortunately, orthodoxy IS an ethnic religion, and as long as orthodoxy do not unite, there will be few of you.
And thus I heard a priest saying they don't want to convert, that's why churches do not open until sunday (at least here in Rio de Janeiro, and there are churches that open only once in two weeks). Sure, everyone in the world have heard of the Orthodox Cathedral (try to google catedral ortodoxa) in São Paulo, which is a COPY of Hagya Sophia, and opens everyday.
And to end my testament, there is no effort at all to adapt to the local culture. There will NEVER be a Brazilian orthodoxy, it will be always a church in diaspora.
I am not criticizing Orthodoxy, but to get out of the east, you have to do something.
That's why I searched the priest of my parish and run to the roman church...
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« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2010, 09:39:13 AM »

Contact Fabio Leite.

Welcome to the forum.
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« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2010, 12:52:58 PM »

My Godfather in the Orthodox Church is Chinese. My Godmother, former Southern Baptist, I am a Jew. My wife  converted from the Anglican (Episcopal) Church.

My Priest is also a convert from the Anglican Church. Several of my brother and sister parishioners are Black as is a Priest at the Orthodox Cathedral downtown. The Metropolitan of the OCA was born in the USA and is another Anglican convert.

I am not sure  how much more diverse we can get  Smiley
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« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2010, 02:37:13 PM »

My Godfather in the Orthodox Church is Chinese. My Godmother, former Southern Baptist, I am a Jew. My wife  converted from the Anglican (Episcopal) Church.

My Priest is also a convert from the Anglican Church. Several of my brother and sister parishioners are Black as is a Priest at the Orthodox Cathedral downtown. The Metropolitan of the OCA was born in the USA and is another Anglican convert.

I am not sure  how much more diverse we can get  Smiley

My parish is very diverse as well. Priest is of Irish decent and his wife is Austrian, his son is the assistant priest and his wife is Iranian decent. We have three deacons; an Arab, the second is Bulgarian and Macedonian, and the other is of German decent. Our parish is made up of Arabs, Slavs (includes Russians, Serbs, Bulgarians, and Polish), Eritreans, Ethiopians, and many converts coming from a large variety of ethnic backgrounds.
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« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2010, 03:37:26 PM »

My parish priest and his wife are Jewish...  (Orthodox... Jewish..............priest?  That joke never gets old! Grin

Our parish is under the Serbian jurisdiction, a third of our parishioners are Russian, and the rest is composed of all-American converts from a wide spectrum of former spiritual paths: former-Protestants (most any kind you could think of), Buddhists, Hindus, Catholics, etc.

Two Paschas ago, our parish had a visiting Brazilian priest (Padre Pedro).  Man, did he looove his coffee! 


Hello!
I am Brazilian

Welcome, peccatorum.  You should visit this Orthodox world map

It has Orthodox icons and chants from almost 100 cultures around the world!... including Brazil.


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« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2010, 05:34:13 PM »

Hello!
I am Brazilian and I do not know many of these people you're talking about, but here it goes...
well, I read someone writing that in Canada there are ghettos of Ukrainian, Greek, etc, etc, etc...
I feel a lot like this.
When I converted to Christianity (although my country is actually christian, I was not), i did it through orthodoxy, I even wished to be priest...
But truth comes...
Unfortunately, orthodoxy IS an ethnic religion, and as long as orthodoxy do not unite, there will be few of you.
And thus I heard a priest saying they don't want to convert, that's why churches do not open until sunday (at least here in Rio de Janeiro, and there are churches that open only once in two weeks). Sure, everyone in the world have heard of the Orthodox Cathedral (try to google catedral ortodoxa) in São Paulo, which is a COPY of Hagya Sophia, and opens everyday.
And to end my testament, there is no effort at all to adapt to the local culture. There will NEVER be a Brazilian orthodoxy, it will be always a church in diaspora.
I am not criticizing Orthodoxy, but to get out of the east, you have to do something.
That's why I searched the priest of my parish and run to the roman church...

That's your greatest consideration in deciding between two different religious groups?  Undecided
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« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2010, 05:59:53 PM »

That's your greatest consideration in deciding between two different religious groups?  Undecided

It is the Orthodox who state worship is with all you senses. When something consistently doesn't click because it is foreign (literally), worship can feel fake or forced. This isn't the same as diversity, this is culture. If you were foreign to the eastern culture and you clicked with eastern worship outright, outstanding, but many don't have that same luxury.

So yeah, it is a big deal. The theology can be perfect, but if an individual is an outsider, there is no community for him.
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« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2010, 06:02:55 PM »

That's your greatest consideration in deciding between two different religious groups?  Undecided

It is the Orthodox who state worship is with all you senses. When something consistently doesn't click because it is foreign (literally), worship can feel fake or forced. This isn't the same as diversity, this is culture. If you were foreign to the eastern culture and you clicked with eastern worship outright, outstanding, but many don't have that same luxury.

So yeah, it is a big deal. The theology can be perfect, but if an individual is an outsider, there is no community for him.

Actually, the Oriental Orthodox are even more foreign and ethnic than the Byzantines. I go to their churches and it doesn't necessarily "click" with me. I feel much more spiritually at home at the OCA mission I used to go to. But because of their doctrine I know that they are the Church. And knowing that they hold the right doctrine in and of itself gives me some sense of community with them.
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« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2010, 06:08:16 PM »

That's your greatest consideration in deciding between two different religious groups?  Undecided

It is the Orthodox who state worship is with all you senses. When something consistently doesn't click because it is foreign (literally), worship can feel fake or forced. This isn't the same as diversity, this is culture. If you were foreign to the eastern culture and you clicked with eastern worship outright, outstanding, but many don't have that same luxury.

So yeah, it is a big deal. The theology can be perfect, but if an individual is an outsider, there is no community for him.

Actually, the Oriental Orthodox are even more foreign and ethnic than the Byzantines. I go to their churches and it doesn't necessarily "click" with me. I feel much more spiritually at home at the OCA mission I used to go to. But because of their doctrine I know that they are the Church. And knowing that they hold the right doctrine in and of itself gives me some sense of community with them.

But not everyone is a theologian. Even those who are adept enough in their private lives may have a harder time than you. Most of which, because not everyone's priorities are the same.
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« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2010, 06:29:17 PM »

Hello!
I am Brazilian and I do not know many of these people you're talking about, but here it goes...
well, I read someone writing that in Canada there are ghettos of Ukrainian, Greek, etc, etc, etc...
I feel a lot like this.
When I converted to Christianity (although my country is actually christian, I was not), i did it through orthodoxy, I even wished to be priest...
But truth comes...
Unfortunately, orthodoxy IS an ethnic religion, and as long as orthodoxy do not unite, there will be few of you.
And thus I heard a priest saying they don't want to convert, that's why churches do not open until sunday (at least here in Rio de Janeiro, and there are churches that open only once in two weeks). Sure, everyone in the world have heard of the Orthodox Cathedral (try to google catedral ortodoxa) in São Paulo, which is a COPY of Hagya Sophia, and opens everyday.
And to end my testament, there is no effort at all to adapt to the local culture. There will NEVER be a Brazilian orthodoxy, it will be always a church in diaspora.
I am not criticizing Orthodoxy, but to get out of the east, you have to do something.
That's why I searched the priest of my parish and run to the roman church...

Oi Peccatorum! Tudo bem?

It is true that there are some Orthodox priests in Brazil who, because of ecumenism, when receive inquirers, direct them to Roman Catholic churches. I heard it myself. The justification is basically the branch theory. We can only pray for these priests.

As for "too much" ethnicity, it's a double-way road. If you talk to Greeks and Greek-Brazilians, you'll notice how "brazilianized" the latter are. The same is true for all ethnicities. Our "russians" are not the same as "their" russians. And I'm sure the same is true for immigrants everywhere who are away from the "motherland" for more than 10 years. Our Greek priest here has been in Brazil for 40 years and still has an accent. At the same time, when he goes to Greece, people comment he has acquired a Brazilian accent.

So the first thing we have to do is to apply Christian love and compassion to the peoples who brought Orthodoxy to us. It is not easy being an immigrant and many times they had to rely on each other to resist native prejudice against them. That happens everywhere. The foreigner, the "stranger" has a lot or ordeals to fit in the new society.

Concerning the Antiochian Cathedral of São Paulo being a replica of Hagia Sophia, I think it is a very good opportunity for the people of the city to have an idea of how Hagia Sophia looks like without having to travel to Turkey, which is definitely out of budget for the vast majority. But, with the Cathedral there, this amazing work of architecture can be known with a bus or subway ticket.

From your post, I guess you're from Rio like me. I'm living in Curitiba now, but I was born in the Hospital de Lins and I was raised in Irajá. I know every Orthodox chapel in Rio. I know that the Greek chapel in Higienópolis, literally, has two or three attendants during Liturgy. I know the Russian church in Santa Teresa is in a very beautiful but difficult to access spot. I know about the generation of priests converts from the RC and from the local schism of the Brazilian Catholic Church who were accepted into the Antiochians and practice lots of syncretisms. I know that the Antiochian Patriarchal Vicariate in Rua Gomes Freire opens only on Sundays (as 99% of the Orthodox churches in Brazil).

But these problems are very little related to ethnicity. They are very related to the particularities of our own society. Do you think the Greeks and Syrio-lebanese and Russians and Ukrainians in the US are less attached to their motherlands than the ones in Brazil? Trust me, they are not. Like here in Brazil, some are very attached and couldn't bother less about mission, and others would gladly join any effort to convert the locals and help to create a native Orthodox community.

The difference, my friend, is that here in Brazil, we, the native, have not approached the Church with true martyric devotion. Certainly, some individuals did, and glory to them! But we have not as a society. By martyric devotion I mean to be willing to give up our selves, to yes, be truly integrated and, from within, work with love and devotion the spread of the message. We have to love these ethnic communties, my friend. We have to love them and approach them as friends, as brothers and not as judges of their natural and human limits and defects. We too have many cultural vices. As Brazilians, we tend to shallow encyclopedism when educated, to emotionalism without substantial knowledge - even pope John Paul II said of Brazilians that we were Catholic in the heart but not in reason. Just by looking around how the major religion, which is RC, has been weakend by syncretism, secularism and others, we can understand how much more vulnerable Orthodoxy has been and how these immigrants would want to preserve their faith from some of the very real threats of undermining that such Brazilian vices could bring.

We have to give up ourselves first. Truly, their cultures have their own probems, but fortunately they are not quite the same as ours. Let their cultural virtues heal your cultural vices. Let the love of classical education of the Greek complement our *very* deffective education (and that is true for even those schools and universities on high regard in Brazil). Let the pragmatism of the Syrio-lebanese counter our tendency to worship diplomas, certificates and bureaucracy. Let the seriousness and "altivez" of the Russians teach us that not everything can be dealt with a relaxed approach, that our excessive playfulness sometimes prophanes the sacred.

These are the teachers and references God gave us. You will find many bad examples among them. Some, I'm afraid to say, outright criminal - just look at the surnames of some owners of samba schools and bicheiros (owners of illegal gambling networks) and you will have an idea of what I'm talking about. But these are not the teachers I'm talking about. It's the guy praying in silence, the yayas, the priests, even the ecumenist ones when they are not preaching ecumenism itself, the people at the church, in some cases even those who avoid going to church. Remember when God said that we should honour our fathers and mothers? Well, these peoples are the spiritual fathers and mothers of the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church in Brazil.

Approach them in love, and you'll meet love.
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« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2010, 06:36:10 PM »

That's your greatest consideration in deciding between two different religious groups?  Undecided

It is the Orthodox who state worship is with all you senses. When something consistently doesn't click because it is foreign (literally), worship can feel fake or forced. This isn't the same as diversity, this is culture. If you were foreign to the eastern culture and you clicked with eastern worship outright, outstanding, but many don't have that same luxury.

So yeah, it is a big deal. The theology can be perfect, but if an individual is an outsider, there is no community for him.

Actually, the Oriental Orthodox are even more foreign and ethnic than the Byzantines. I go to their churches and it doesn't necessarily "click" with me. I feel much more spiritually at home at the OCA mission I used to go to. But because of their doctrine I know that they are the Church. And knowing that they hold the right doctrine in and of itself gives me some sense of community with them.

But not everyone is a theologian. Even those who are adept enough in their private lives may have a harder time than you. Most of which, because not everyone's priorities are the same.

I'm aware. I think some peoples' priorities with regard to church-going are more shallow than others. Not having any higher priority about one's church-going that would overrule the unattractiveness of the ethnic nature of the church seems pretty shallow to me.
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« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2010, 06:48:35 PM »

My Godfather in the Orthodox Church is Chinese. My Godmother, former Southern Baptist, I am a Jew. My wife  converted from the Anglican (Episcopal) Church.

My Priest is also a convert from the Anglican Church. Several of my brother and sister parishioners are Black as is a Priest at the Orthodox Cathedral downtown. The Metropolitan of the OCA was born in the USA and is another Anglican convert.

I am not sure  how much more diverse we can get  Smiley

You are in South America?
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« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2010, 06:50:45 PM »

Hi again!

If ethnicity proves too big an obstacle for you, go to the Polish Orthodox Church in Copacabana. They are a canonical mission group under Poland, but they are an entirely Brazilian group. From the Archbishop, Dom Crisóstomo, a carioca, to the parish goers, just Brazilians.

Here is their contact:


Catedral da Santíssima Virgem Maria
Rua Saint Roman 226
Copacabana - Rio de Janeiro - RJ

S. Exa. Revma Arcebispo Chrisóstomo
ortodoxia1@gmail.com

Revmo. Arcipreste Bento
arciprestebento@gmail.com

Rev. Presbítero Marcos
padremarcos@gmail.com

Rev. Presbítero Levi
botner@centroin.com.br

It is very easy to get there now. You get the line 1 of the subway and go until the Tom Jobim station. Formerly, it was called Praça General Osório station. Then you leave through the exit of Rua Jangadeiros. From there, you're already very close to the church. See here in Google Maps how to get there: http://is.gd/fiB7P . It will take about 5 minutes.

The church itself is a house that was adapted. What you'll see is a huge wall (they are close to the Cantagalo slum). If you go there for Liturgy, very probably the gates will be open. You just enter and go up the stairs. If the gates are closed simply ring the doorbell. If you plan to pay a visit at any other time call first. Particularly, don't go there at night without calling first. You don't want to call attention by walking around looking lost. And calling first is always polite.

You can have a look at their blog here:

http://www.ortodoxia-brasil.blogspot.com/
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« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2010, 07:09:17 PM »

Hello!
I am Brazilian and I do not know many of these people you're talking about, but here it goes...
well, I read someone writing that in Canada there are ghettos of Ukrainian, Greek, etc, etc, etc...
I feel a lot like this.
When I converted to Christianity (although my country is actually christian, I was not), i did it through orthodoxy, I even wished to be priest...
But truth comes...
Unfortunately, orthodoxy IS an ethnic religion, and as long as orthodoxy do not unite, there will be few of you.
And thus I heard a priest saying they don't want to convert, that's why churches do not open until sunday (at least here in Rio de Janeiro, and there are churches that open only once in two weeks). Sure, everyone in the world have heard of the Orthodox Cathedral (try to google catedral ortodoxa) in São Paulo, which is a COPY of Hagya Sophia, and opens everyday.
And to end my testament, there is no effort at all to adapt to the local culture. There will NEVER be a Brazilian orthodoxy, it will be always a church in diaspora.
I am not criticizing Orthodoxy, but to get out of the east, you have to do something.
That's why I searched the priest of my parish and run to the roman church...

That's your greatest consideration in deciding between two different religious groups?  Undecided

He lives in Brazil, and so we shouldn't judge him based on what we know up here. He needs to talk with Fabio
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« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2010, 07:15:39 PM »

I agree.  Those of us not in South America really don't know the dynamics.   Fabio can handle this.   A person is coming honestly to let us honestly know why he chose Rome over Orthodoxy.  He is also stating that most people are not "deep" enough to be able to weed through basic ethnic obstacles.   The poster of the op is saying that if Orthodoxy is to grow in South America, it has to be discernable on many levels to them, and that if it is not, they will go to Rome.   I think sometimes we should be listening rather than speaking, so now I'll shut up and listen to Fabio and to peccatorum.
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« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2010, 07:31:08 PM »

Hello!
I am Brazilian and I do not know many of these people you're talking about, but here it goes...
well, I read someone writing that in Canada there are ghettos of Ukrainian, Greek, etc, etc, etc...
I feel a lot like this.
When I converted to Christianity (although my country is actually christian, I was not), i did it through orthodoxy, I even wished to be priest...
But truth comes...
Unfortunately, orthodoxy IS an ethnic religion, and as long as orthodoxy do not unite, there will be few of you.
And thus I heard a priest saying they don't want to convert, that's why churches do not open until sunday (at least here in Rio de Janeiro, and there are churches that open only once in two weeks). Sure, everyone in the world have heard of the Orthodox Cathedral (try to google catedral ortodoxa) in São Paulo, which is a COPY of Hagya Sophia, and opens everyday.
And to end my testament, there is no effort at all to adapt to the local culture. There will NEVER be a Brazilian orthodoxy, it will be always a church in diaspora.
I am not criticizing Orthodoxy, but to get out of the east, you have to do something.
That's why I searched the priest of my parish and run to the roman church...

That's your greatest consideration in deciding between two different religious groups?  Undecided

He lives in Brazil, and so we shouldn't judge him based on what we know up here. He needs to talk with Fabio

I wouldn't say that I am for sure experiencing the same extreme as him. That wasn't the point. The point is that I am going through a transition that is significantly more ethnic than where I am coming from (Byzantine to Oriental) and yet through the strong frustration of that reality am not at all dissuaded from what I feel I need to do.

Also, you shouldn't necessarily be assuming that you know "how it is here" as if your experience of the Byzantine churches is anywhere near as ethnic as what I am talking about in the Oriental churches.
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« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2010, 08:27:21 PM »

Hi, Fabio Leite!
I am highly honored to meet you!
Let me start from the less mattering subject:
First of all, I don't think that the Cathedral is a work of ill will; au contraire, I think it's a great work of both engineering and architecture!
Second, when I talk about ethnicity, I talk about a real Catholic church as I see it: missionary. I was really amazed when I first entered an Orthodox church. So powerful was the spell over my soul that I (until then some sort of thelemist, a "black magick" developed by Aleister Crowley, but I am sure you know him) dropped away my beliefs on the occult to worship Jesus and the Holy Trinity (even because it seemed philosophically more acceptable, let's discuss this latter). As you (all) can see, I am neither some kind of "pagodeiro" or "funkeiro", dull, or academic, who thinks that a piece of paper makes somebody better or worse; I am a philosopher, and only by logic you can convince me, but I do not believe in academic logic, they lost their empiricism, and are always trying to prove only that there is no got at all.
I think that by the parts we can deduce the whole, and vice-versa.
And lastly but not least, I never suffered any prejudice, au contraire, the priest, Padre Geraldo, was always very kind with me. I only think that the other priest's (not from the same parch, it's worthless to wright his name) attitude is counterproductive.
Dominus Tecum.
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« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2010, 08:48:47 PM »

By the way, I am not trying to say that I know how it works in America, nor that you do not face obstacles. but if you're trying o convert, closing the churches isn't wise. But it's still understandable, since there are so few orthodox here, and by orthodox I mean orthodox. The church I went was orthodox but they "disguised" as catholics (well, not disguised, it was remarkably different, but the priests did not instructed well the people. As a sample: there is a woman who is there for twenty years, and do not understand the rites.
Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis.
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« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2010, 11:35:46 PM »

Hi, Fabio Leite!
I am highly honored to meet you!
Let me start from the less mattering subject:
First of all, I don't think that the Cathedral is a work of ill will; au contraire, I think it's a great work of both engineering and architecture!
Second, when I talk about ethnicity, I talk about a real Catholic church as I see it: missionary. I was really amazed when I first entered an Orthodox church. So powerful was the spell over my soul that I (until then some sort of thelemist, a "black magick" developed by Aleister Crowley, but I am sure you know him) dropped away my beliefs on the occult to worship Jesus and the Holy Trinity (even because it seemed philosophically more acceptable, let's discuss this latter). As you (all) can see, I am neither some kind of "pagodeiro" or "funkeiro", dull, or academic, who thinks that a piece of paper makes somebody better or worse; I am a philosopher, and only by logic you can convince me, but I do not believe in academic logic, they lost their empiricism, and are always trying to prove only that there is no got at all.
I think that by the parts we can deduce the whole, and vice-versa.
And lastly but not least, I never suffered any prejudice, au contraire, the priest, Padre Geraldo, was always very kind with me. I only think that the other priest's (not from the same parch, it's worthless to wright his name) attitude is counterproductive.
Dominus Tecum.

Hi peccatorum! I studied a bit of the occult myself for sometime although I never practiced. Crowlley never caught my interest too much, but I had some interesting talks with everybody, from chaos magick people to white magic practioners. But like C.S. Lewis once put it through the lines of a certain Lion: "though the Witch knew the Deep Magic, there is a magic deeper still which she did not know. Her knowledge goes back only to the dawn of Time. But if she could have looked a little further back, into the stillness and the darkness before Time dawned, she would have read there a different incantation. "

Now, let me tell you this. Our initiation, so to speak, into Orthodoxy starts before baptism and goes on even for some time after it. All these obstacles you mentioned are just part of it. It shows that God is *already* considering you worth it, He is already molding you. Don't shun His hands. When you first entered, as you said, you experienced the Glory. But like a powerful king who visits his subjects in torn clothes like a vagabond, He is showing to you as well the ugly part. Is your love for truth, and for the glory of God you then experienced weaker or stronger than the defects of these people? Is their lack of interest stronger than your own interest? Remember that even when Jesus was with the Apostles, they pointed to Him that there were bad people in their group. Remember the parable of the wheat and tare:

Quote
Propôs-lhes outra parábola, dizendo: O reino dos céus é semelhante ao homem que semeia a boa semente no seu campo;

Mas, dormindo os homens, veio o seu inimigo, e semeou joio no meio do trigo, e retirou-se.

E, quando a erva cresceu e frutificou, apareceu também o joio.

E os servos do pai de família, indo ter com ele, disseram-lhe: Senhor, não semeaste tu, no teu campo, boa semente? Por que tem, então, joio?

E ele lhes disse: Um inimigo é quem fez isso. E os servos lhe disseram: Queres pois que vamos arrancá-lo?

Ele, porém, lhes disse: Não; para que, ao colher o joio, não arranqueis também o trigo com ele.

Deixai crescer ambos juntos até à ceifa; e, por ocasião da ceifa, direi aos ceifeiros: Colhei primeiro o joio, e atai-o em molhos para o queimar; mas, o trigo, ajuntai-o no meu celeiro.

S. Mat. 13:24-30

Since the very early times the good and the bad have been together. Now, when we see a problem of ethnicity, we have to give up our own ethnic needs first. As I said, there is a lot to learn with the immigrants. And if God put them, for us, as the only door to His Church, it is because *we* have a great need of it.

Again, as I said, if the ethnic question is too problematic for you, try establishing contact and becoming part of the church in Copacabana. They are a *missionary* group, made only of Brazilians, with songs and Liturgy 100% in Portuguese. Plus, they used to be Pereniallists, so I'm sure they are more than equipped to have conversations and explanations for those coming from a background like yours. Give them a try, I'm sure you will not regret. Smiley
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JLatimer
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« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2010, 03:45:22 PM »

Hello!
I am Brazilian and I do not know many of these people you're talking about, but here it goes...
well, I read someone writing that in Canada there are ghettos of Ukrainian, Greek, etc, etc, etc...
I feel a lot like this.
When I converted to Christianity (although my country is actually christian, I was not), i did it through orthodoxy, I even wished to be priest...
But truth comes...
Unfortunately, orthodoxy IS an ethnic religion, and as long as orthodoxy do not unite, there will be few of you.
And thus I heard a priest saying they don't want to convert, that's why churches do not open until sunday (at least here in Rio de Janeiro, and there are churches that open only once in two weeks). Sure, everyone in the world have heard of the Orthodox Cathedral (try to google catedral ortodoxa) in São Paulo, which is a COPY of Hagya Sophia, and opens everyday.
And to end my testament, there is no effort at all to adapt to the local culture. There will NEVER be a Brazilian orthodoxy, it will be always a church in diaspora.
I am not criticizing Orthodoxy, but to get out of the east, you have to do something.
That's why I searched the priest of my parish and run to the roman church...

That's your greatest consideration in deciding between two different religious groups?  Undecided

He lives in Brazil, and so we shouldn't judge him based on what we know up here. He needs to talk with Fabio

I wouldn't say that I am for sure experiencing the same extreme as him. That wasn't the point. The point is that I am going through a transition that is significantly more ethnic than where I am coming from (Byzantine to Oriental) and yet through the strong frustration of that reality am not at all dissuaded from what I feel I need to do.

Also, you shouldn't necessarily be assuming that you know "how it is here" as if your experience of the Byzantine churches is anywhere near as ethnic as what I am talking about in the Oriental churches.

Yeah, jnorm888: you are not nearly as cool, ethnic, and deep as deusveritasest, so you should shut up.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2010, 03:47:27 PM by JLatimer » Logged

1 Samuel 25:22 (KJV)
So and more also do God unto the enemies of David, if I leave of all that pertain to him by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall.
deusveritasest
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« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2010, 03:53:17 PM »

Hello!
I am Brazilian and I do not know many of these people you're talking about, but here it goes...
well, I read someone writing that in Canada there are ghettos of Ukrainian, Greek, etc, etc, etc...
I feel a lot like this.
When I converted to Christianity (although my country is actually christian, I was not), i did it through orthodoxy, I even wished to be priest...
But truth comes...
Unfortunately, orthodoxy IS an ethnic religion, and as long as orthodoxy do not unite, there will be few of you.
And thus I heard a priest saying they don't want to convert, that's why churches do not open until sunday (at least here in Rio de Janeiro, and there are churches that open only once in two weeks). Sure, everyone in the world have heard of the Orthodox Cathedral (try to google catedral ortodoxa) in São Paulo, which is a COPY of Hagya Sophia, and opens everyday.
And to end my testament, there is no effort at all to adapt to the local culture. There will NEVER be a Brazilian orthodoxy, it will be always a church in diaspora.
I am not criticizing Orthodoxy, but to get out of the east, you have to do something.
That's why I searched the priest of my parish and run to the roman church...

That's your greatest consideration in deciding between two different religious groups?  Undecided

He lives in Brazil, and so we shouldn't judge him based on what we know up here. He needs to talk with Fabio

I wouldn't say that I am for sure experiencing the same extreme as him. That wasn't the point. The point is that I am going through a transition that is significantly more ethnic than where I am coming from (Byzantine to Oriental) and yet through the strong frustration of that reality am not at all dissuaded from what I feel I need to do.

Also, you shouldn't necessarily be assuming that you know "how it is here" as if your experience of the Byzantine churches is anywhere near as ethnic as what I am talking about in the Oriental churches.

Yeah, jnorm888: you are not nearly as cool, ethnic, and deep as deusveritasest, so you should shut up.

Wow. I tell someone to back off from judging me and I'm framed as condescending.  Roll Eyes
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Fotios1303
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« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2012, 12:12:30 AM »

Well...
Yes,i agree that the orthodox church in brazil have to be a "brazilian orthodox church",with liturgy in portuguese,musics in portuguese...
But,NEVER to be latinized or non-orthodox.

I lives in sao paulo,brazil. And i know some "priests" who were brazilian catholics,do non-orthodox things in church.
For example "give comunion to macombeiros/spiritualists" "use the liturgy without preparation of proskomidia and epiclesis" "catholic statues in church" "use the catholic brazilian version of lord's prayer"......

I can't say name of these "priests" in the forum.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 12:21:42 AM by Fotios1303 » Logged
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