I remember reading in Duffy's The Stripping of the Altars how during the Marian Restoration (to RCism) in England, these sorts of annotations became common. No longer do we just light a candle, we light a candle which represents the light of Christ, etc. In an Orthodox context, there's nothing wrong per se with commentary of this sort, or with citing Scripture references in the Liturgy; but Duffy implies that this second wave Catholicism in England had already ceded too much ground to Protestantism by even seeking to "justify" traditional piety with Scripture, etc. The Prots have already won when you've got to intellectualize everything. I think this applies to the Orthodox situation in America. Familiarizing the flock whether cradle or convert with Scripture is great, but I'm inclined to think augustin is on to something when he detects a whiff of unregenerate Protestantism in service books with Scripture references.
The problem with Augustin is his visceral reaction to all things alien to him or to his experience. Take this "whiff of unregenerate Protestantism" for example: Referring to Scriptures references is a common ploy of the early Protestants, such as the Lord Himself, any of the Apostles, and particularly Saint Paul. I don't know about you but I would rather be like these early Protestants and be tainted with alleged unregenerate Protestantism than be a pious but nominal Orthodox Christian.
I agree with you that augustin can be rude and I don't agree with everything he says.
The Lord and the Apostles were in no wise Protestant.
The "nominal" "real/authentic/whatever" dichotomy is really of Protestant origin and IMO of limited utility.
Yes I would rather be Orthodox than "nominal".
Don't get me wrong, I love to cite Scripture as much as the next guy. But I'm still not convinced we need lay people walking around with annotated service books citing Scripture. This in my mind seems to be making the service book into a tool of apologetics. But worship is just not apologetic in nature.
Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up; and he went to the synagogue, as his custom was, on the sabbath day. And he stood up to read; 17 and there was given to him the book of the prophet Isaiah. He opened the book and found the place where it was written, 18 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, 19 to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord." 20 And he closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant, and sat down; and the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on him. 21 And he began to say to them, "Today this scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing." 22 And all spoke well of him, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth; and they said, "Is not this Joseph's son?" 23 And he said to them, "Doubtless you will quote to me this proverb, 'Physician, heal yourself; what we have heard you did at Caper'na-um, do here also in your own country.'" 24 And he said, "Truly, I say to you, no prophet is acceptable in his own country. 25 But in truth, I tell you, there were many widows in Israel in the days of Eli'jah, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when there came a great famine over all the land; 26 and Eli'jah was sent to none of them but only to Zar'ephath, in the land of Sidon, to a woman who was a widow. 27 And there were many lepers in Israel in the time of the prophet Eli'sha; and none of them was cleansed, but only Na'aman the Syrian." 28 When they heard this, all in the synagogue were filled with wrath.
It seems some are still "filled with wrath."
Btw, I'm not a fan of ANYONE having ANY service book in hand during worship. But for those who need them, let them have them. And if they need them, why not the most informative? Looking up the references (not necessarily during the DL ) can enrich what they bring to the DL.
I fail to see how anything I said was especially wrathful. I'm also not entirely sure about what you're getting at with that lengthy Scripture passage: is it supposed to prove the apologetic nature of worship?
I should have been more clear what I meant by that statement, since obviously much of our hymnody takes an apologetic (or perhaps more precisely polemic) stance toward various heresies. What I meant is that worship is primarily a place where the already believing glorify, give thanks to, and commune with their Creator. We do so within our Tradition, which is the Life of God in the Church. The Scripture is part of that Tradition, and we rightly hold it aloft, celebrate it, venerate it. But I do not think we need to apologize to Protestant for the rest of our Tradition, or prove to them (or to ourselves) that everything we do has a chapter and verse.
This is what I meant by worship not being the time for apologetics. We should be comfortable with what we do as the Church, and not be anxious about having to "justify" our practices from the Scriptures (that is a Protestant mindset). (that doesn't mean we should ignore the Scriptures.)
Incidentally, I have read a commentary on the Luturgy that gave all the references to Scripture and found it edifying, and I am not speaking against the whole idea of it. I just think we need to do things judiciously.
Converts and cradles both have strengths and weaknesses. Let us all work together in humility. Not seeking to justify ourselves, but seeking to understand and benefit from each other's criticism. Let us edify each other and stop this convert vs. Cradle mentality.
Looking up the references (not necessarily during the DL ) can enrich what they bring to the DL.
Agreed. The time for such study is not during the Liturgy. But the study itself is not inherently bad.
So, out comes the essentially meaningless accusation that these folks are not really Orthodox, that they are or act like Protestants.
Just because this accusation is sometimes made unfairly or in bad faith, does that really mean it is "essentially meaningless"? I myself am a covert "from Protestantism via atheism". I acknowledge I've got some Protestant tendencies. It can take a long time to acquire an Orthodox mindset. And the truth is cradles aren't immune to Prot influence - our surrounding culture is Protestant. It affects the way we think and feel and act. And that's okay. I don't think we need to really stress out about it. But we should exercise basic caution, and we also need to try our best to really dig into the Orthodox Tradition that's been given to us.