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jnorm888
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« on: September 14, 2010, 10:00:39 AM »

I know we are taught in school that there are 4 kinds of separate and different forces:

   1.  Gravitational force
        
   2.  Electromagnetic force
        
   3.  Weak force
        
   4.  Strong force (nuclear force)
      

But what if they are really all connected? What if there is really no such thing as 4 different forces?

The common thing I see is that something spins and warps the space around it.....causing something smaller to revolve around it. I know that they say mass warps the space around an object, but it seems to me that the spinning of the object plays a role in the warp as well.


And so, my question is this. Is it possible to produce some sort of artificial gravity in a spaceship by having a round ball placed somewhere on the ship and have it spin on it's axis extremely fast? Would that cause it's surrounding area to warp? Thus causing some form of artificial gravity on a ship?

I am not talking about centripetal force. I am talking about mimicking the forces we see:

 1.  Gravitational force
        
   2.  Electromagnetic force
        
   3.  Weak force
        
   4.  Strong force (nuclear force)


When we look at both the Micro world as well as the Macro world, we see round shaped objects spinning on an axis and other things trapped in it's warp by revolving around it. I know we usually talk about gravity in the form of Mass warping the space around an object, but what about an objects spin? Can that also play a role in regards to creating a force? Can that play a role in warping it's surrounding area?
« Last Edit: September 14, 2010, 10:03:41 AM by jnorm888 » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2010, 02:08:34 PM »

The standard idea for creating a sort of "artificial gravity" in a space station/ship etc is that the structure would be sent to rotate around its axis.  The center would still be 0G/ "Zero G"/no gravity sensation or very very little while "down" would towards the outside of the structure.  This would work with cylinders, spheres and rings as I understand it.  Science Fiction works have had this concept for many decades and they're using real science.

Ebor
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« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2010, 02:54:24 PM »

Science Fiction works have had this concept for many decades and they're using real science.
Ringworld is an awesome read.

Outside of trinity of acceleration, mass, and rotation, all that is left are very controversial hypotheses and speculations.  Gravito-magnetism would be one, which has to do with rotating superconductors. 

Then there is always the chance that our standard model is off and there might be additional forces (besides the big 4), which would allow for this via other means.  Tongue 
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« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2010, 03:12:59 PM »



Then there is always the chance that our standard model is off and there might be additional forces (besides the big 4), which would allow for this via other means.  Tongue 
Which would be AWESOME!!!
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« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2010, 03:34:39 PM »

Which would be AWESOME!!!
I'm still holding out for a Higgs-less model.  Tongue  Come on (e)Heim theory!
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« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2010, 10:07:47 PM »

The standard idea for creating a sort of "artificial gravity" in a space station/ship etc is that the structure would be sent to rotate around its axis.  The center would still be 0G/ "Zero G"/no gravity sensation or very very little while "down" would towards the outside of the structure.  This would work with cylinders, spheres and rings as I understand it.  Science Fiction works have had this concept for many decades and they're using real science.

Ebor


This is centripetal force. I was trying to avoid that. But yes, we can do it with centripetal force.


I was thinking about warping the fabric of time space. We normally look at the mass of an object that warps the fabric of time space, but I was wondering if the spin/revolution/rotation of an object can have some sort of influence in warping the fabric of time space as well.

I was wondering if something small(about the size of your fist, and with a low mass)  that spins close to the speed of light.....well, I was wondering if such a thing could warp the fabric of time space in it's surrounding area?

And it may not have to spin close to the speed of light in order to warp the fabric of space time. Just spin extremely fast in general, the material being spun might matter, but I'm seeing spinning things in both the micro and Macro world with orbits....or some sort of force. We give them different names, but they seem to be doing similar stuff......balls spinning!

Super Black Wholes probably spin, but it's warping is mostly due to it's dense mass. And it's warp causes a whole galaxy to spin

The sun probably spins slowly, but it's warp is mostly due to it's mass, and it's warp causes a solar system to spin/revolve.

Planets spin a bit faster and it's warp is mostly due to it's mass, and planets have moons caught in it's warp

In the Micro world we have all kinds of things spinning extremely fast, and we see other objects/things caught in it's orbit

And so I see things spinning, and I'm wondering if we could create an artificial warp of the fabric of space time through spinning balls.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2010, 10:39:13 PM by jnorm888 » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2010, 10:22:20 AM »

I understood what you were writing in your OP.

I'm trying to understand what you mean and where your ideas are coming from. What does "warping the fabric of time space" mean to you?  Are you thinking of things like the gravitational lensing effect?
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/features/news/grav_lens.html


Yes, the sun does rotate. Here is a page from NASA that has information on that:
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/970108a.html


What have you read about Super Black Holes and can you give some sources please? What sorts of things are you thinking of when you say "in the micro world?"

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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2010, 01:28:40 PM »

I was told that I am so fat that I generate my own gravity field.
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« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2010, 01:32:57 PM »

I was told that I am so fat that I generate my own gravity field.
Homer Simpson does that.
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« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2010, 01:53:29 PM »

I'm so fat that when I bought my last car they didn't bother putting a spare tire in the trunk - since I carry my own! Cheesy
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« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2010, 01:59:39 PM »

I understood what you were writing in your OP.

I'm trying to understand what you mean and where your ideas are coming from. What does "warping the fabric of time space" mean to you?  Are you thinking of things like the gravitational lensing effect?
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/features/news/grav_lens.html

Yes, if you want me to use the term "gravitational field" then I will use that term. We normally think of our reality as being in 3 dimensions and so I used the term warping the fabric of space(length, height, and width) time. We normally think of Mass as doing such a thing.

What I want to know is can an objects spin/rotation/revolving also play a role in forming a "gravitational field"? If so, then we can form our own gravitational field with low mass objects. Now it might depend on what material we use to spin, but outside of that, all we will have to focus on is the acceleration of the spin/rotation/revolving. How fast must it go in order to create the gravitational field we need. This is what I want to know. Is such a thing possible or am I way out in left field in thinking we can generate a gravitational field without worrying about an objects mass........I'm trying to skip the whole mass thing.


If you want me to use the term "force field", I'll use that.....I'll use any term you want me to use. I was wondering if a force field can be created with a spin of an object and not just with it's mass alone.

And the only reason why I am wondering this is because of the similarities I see with force fields in both the Micro and Macro worlds.

Quote
Yes, the sun does rotate. Here is a page from NASA that has information on that:
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/970108a.html

Thanks!

Quote
What have you read about Super Black Holes and can you give some sources please?

I don't have any sources at the moment, but it is said that at the center of every galaxy is a super black whole. And as we know, Galaxies spin......real slowly! And so it's probably the super black whole that's spinning....But I really don't know if that's the case or not. At the moment all I can do is assume ....assume that super black wholes spin/rotate/revolve.


Quote
What sorts of things are you thinking of when you say "in the micro world?"

All kinds of stuff from the stuff we all learned in Chemistry class to the stuff I learned in my Semi-Conductors class to even the newer smaller stuff that has been recently found or speculated to exist.


I am only thinking about this because I would really like to colonize the solar system, but such a thing would be hard to do if we don't have artificial gravity. The whole Centripetal force thing would be good for stationary space stations, but not for actual space ships.

To be honest, we really don't know what gravity is. And this is the main reason why I don't care about the idea of the 4 forces being separate and not related. I think they are related.

« Last Edit: September 15, 2010, 02:29:57 PM by jnorm888 » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2010, 02:35:35 PM »

Science Fiction works have had this concept for many decades and they're using real science.
Ringworld is an awesome read.

Outside of trinity of acceleration, mass, and rotation, all that is left are very controversial hypotheses and speculations.  Gravito-magnetism would be one, which has to do with rotating superconductors.  

Then there is always the chance that our standard model is off and there might be additional forces (besides the big 4), which would allow for this via other means.  Tongue  

Yes! I was reading about this off and on for some years now. I think they are scared because we really don't know how such a thing would affect our bodies.

I think they are on the right track! And you are right, the superconductors rotate.

There was a rumor that the Philadelphia experiment was working with something that rotates or spins real fast. Did you hear anything about that?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2010, 02:38:41 PM by jnorm888 » Logged

"loving one's enemies does not mean loving wickedness, ungodliness, adultery, or theft. Rather, it means loving the theif, the ungodly, and the adulterer." Clement of Alexandria 195 A.D.

http://ancientchristiandefender.blogspot.com/
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