OrthodoxChristianity.net
August 28, 2014, 09:13:02 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Date of Christ's birth  (Read 1088 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
William
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: None
Posts: 4,306


« on: December 27, 2010, 10:18:37 PM »

Does the Church teach that Christ was born on December 25th?
Logged

Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. - Matt. 5:24
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 31,902


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2010, 10:20:09 PM »

Does the Church teach that Christ was born on December 25th?
If the Church taught that, she'd probably be wrong.
Logged
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,449



« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2010, 11:56:42 PM »

Does the Church teach that Christ was born on December 25th?
It is one of 365 (at most, 366) choices. It's one of them, most definitely.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2010, 11:58:57 PM »

Feburary 30th, 2 B.C.
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 31,902


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2010, 01:12:40 AM »

Does the Church teach that Christ was born on December 25th?
On a more serious note to counter the humorous, maybe even ridiculous responses made thus far, I'm not sure the Church is really into making dogmatic statements on when in history a particular event happened, such as the actual date of Christ's birth. The important thing is that Christ was born into this world as a human baby.
Logged
Gamliel
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 2,080



« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2010, 03:49:51 AM »

I have heard some atheists and agnostics complain that the Church stole Dec. 25 from a pagan holiday.  Of course, they could complain about that with almost anytime of the year.
Logged
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 31,902


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2010, 10:44:19 AM »

I have heard some atheists and agnostics complain that the Church stole Dec. 25 from a pagan holiday.  Of course, they could complain about that with almost anytime of the year.
I guess there's now question that even this is true.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,32282.0.html
Logged
Cymbyz
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
Posts: 496



« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2010, 02:16:01 PM »

I have recently seen reasonable arguments from Protestant sources on this subject.

For an argument in favor of a date in 4 B.C., see:  http://www.themoorings.org/apologetics/chronology/Chrmas.html

For an artument in favor of a date in 3 B.C., see:  http://www.versebyverse.org/doctrine/birthofchrist.html

I am personally in favor of the later date because the time-frame given allows for all the events to take place without rushing, and there is good astronomical support for the dating.
Logged

The end of the world
is as near as the day of your death;
watch and pray.
 
 Yahoo! & WLM ID: Owen
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,969


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2010, 02:35:11 PM »

Does the Church teach that Christ was born on December 25th?

Does the Church celebrate Christ's birth on some other date?
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 31,902


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2010, 12:41:06 AM »

Does the Church teach that Christ was born on December 25th?

Does the Church celebrate Christ's birth on some other date?
Is the date of our annual celebration of the Nativity supposed to be seen as a dogmatic statement of a historical date?
Logged
Jetavan
Most Humble Servant of Pan-Vespuccian and Holocenic Hominids
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christic
Jurisdiction: Dixie
Posts: 6,404


Barlaam and Josaphat


WWW
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2010, 01:59:41 AM »

01:34 a.m., Saturday, 24 October, -2 BCE.
Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
genesisone
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 2,478



« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2010, 09:39:50 AM »

01:34 a.m., Saturday, 24 October, -2 BCE.
GMT?
Logged
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,969


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2010, 11:05:14 AM »

Does the Church teach that Christ was born on December 25th?

Does the Church celebrate Christ's birth on some other date?
Is the date of our annual celebration of the Nativity supposed to be seen as a dogmatic statement of a historical date?
Just because something is not enshrined in dogma, but is hallowed by tradition, does that mean that it can be tossed aside? It may not be dogma, but the Church bids us celebrate the Nativity of Christ on that date, believing that that is the correct day, not because of history, per se, but because it is the day of liturgical celebration. Same thing with the Transfiguration. Aug. 6 has always been the day, even though the Lord, according to the Gospel, was transfigured shortly before His crucifixion. But Aug. 6 is the date, because it is 40 days before the Exaltation of the Holy Cross, on Sept. 14.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2010, 11:09:17 AM by Shanghaiski » Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 31,902


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2010, 02:23:59 PM »

Does the Church teach that Christ was born on December 25th?

Does the Church celebrate Christ's birth on some other date?
Is the date of our annual celebration of the Nativity supposed to be seen as a dogmatic statement of a historical date?
Just because something is not enshrined in dogma, but is hallowed by tradition, does that mean that it can be tossed aside? It may not be dogma, but the Church bids us celebrate the Nativity of Christ on that date, believing that that is the correct day, not because of history, per se, but because it is the day of liturgical celebration. Same thing with the Transfiguration. Aug. 6 has always been the day, even though the Lord, according to the Gospel, was transfigured shortly before His crucifixion. But Aug. 6 is the date, because it is 40 days before the Exaltation of the Holy Cross, on Sept. 14.
Then you're talking about something totally different. You're talking about when the Church celebrates a feast, while I'm addressing the OP's question about what the Church says or doesn't say about a particular date in history. The OP's question is: "Does the Church teach that Christ was born on December 25th?", NOT "Does the Church teach that December 25th is the correct date to celebrate Christ's birth?".
Logged
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.091 seconds with 41 queries.