|
William
|
 |
« on: December 27, 2010, 10:18:37 PM » |
|
Does the Church teach that Christ was born on December 25th?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant
|
|
|
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Hypatos
 Offline
Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 33,542
Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!
|
|
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2010, 10:20:09 PM » |
|
Does the Church teach that Christ was born on December 25th?
If the Church taught that, she'd probably be wrong. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
ialmisry
|
|
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2010, 11:56:42 PM » |
|
Does the Church teach that Christ was born on December 25th?
It is one of 365 (at most, 366) choices. It's one of them, most definitely. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
and both come out of your mouth
|
|
|
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
Offline
Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267
Paint It Red
|
|
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2010, 11:58:57 PM » |
|
Feburary 30th, 2 B.C.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”
– St. Ambrose of Milan
|
|
|
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Hypatos
Offline
Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 33,542
Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!
|
|
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2010, 01:12:40 AM » |
|
Does the Church teach that Christ was born on December 25th?
On a more serious note to counter the humorous, maybe even ridiculous responses made thus far, I'm not sure the Church is really into making dogmatic statements on when in history a particular event happened, such as the actual date of Christ's birth. The important thing is that Christ was born into this world as a human baby. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Gamliel
|
|
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2010, 03:49:51 AM » |
|
I have heard some atheists and agnostics complain that the Church stole Dec. 25 from a pagan holiday. Of course, they could complain about that with almost anytime of the year.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Hypatos
Offline
Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 33,542
Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!
|
|
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2010, 10:44:19 AM » |
|
I have heard some atheists and agnostics complain that the Church stole Dec. 25 from a pagan holiday. Of course, they could complain about that with almost anytime of the year.
I guess there's now question that even this is true. http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,32282.0.html |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Cymbyz
Elder
Offline
Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
Posts: 496
|
|
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2010, 02:16:01 PM » |
|
I have recently seen reasonable arguments from Protestant sources on this subject. For an argument in favor of a date in 4 B.C., see: http://www.themoorings.org/apologetics/chronology/Chrmas.htmlFor an artument in favor of a date in 3 B.C., see: http://www.versebyverse.org/doctrine/birthofchrist.htmlI am personally in favor of the later date because the time-frame given allows for all the events to take place without rushing, and there is good astronomical support for the dating. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
The end of the world
is as near as the day of your death;
watch and pray.
Yahoo! & WLM ID: Owen
|
|
|
|
Shanghaiski
|
|
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2010, 02:35:11 PM » |
|
Does the Church teach that Christ was born on December 25th?
Does the Church celebrate Christ's birth on some other date? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
|
|
|
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Hypatos
Offline
Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 33,542
Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!
|
|
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2010, 12:41:06 AM » |
|
Does the Church teach that Christ was born on December 25th?
Does the Church celebrate Christ's birth on some other date? Is the date of our annual celebration of the Nativity supposed to be seen as a dogmatic statement of a historical date? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Jetavan
|
|
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2010, 01:59:41 AM » |
|
01:34 a.m., Saturday, 24 October, -2 BCE.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
|
|
|
|
genesisone
|
|
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2010, 09:39:50 AM » |
|
01:34 a.m., Saturday, 24 October, -2 BCE.
GMT? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Shanghaiski
|
|
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2010, 11:05:14 AM » |
|
Does the Church teach that Christ was born on December 25th?
Does the Church celebrate Christ's birth on some other date? Is the date of our annual celebration of the Nativity supposed to be seen as a dogmatic statement of a historical date? Just because something is not enshrined in dogma, but is hallowed by tradition, does that mean that it can be tossed aside? It may not be dogma, but the Church bids us celebrate the Nativity of Christ on that date, believing that that is the correct day, not because of history, per se, but because it is the day of liturgical celebration. Same thing with the Transfiguration. Aug. 6 has always been the day, even though the Lord, according to the Gospel, was transfigured shortly before His crucifixion. But Aug. 6 is the date, because it is 40 days before the Exaltation of the Holy Cross, on Sept. 14. |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: December 29, 2010, 11:09:17 AM by Shanghaiski »
|
Logged
|
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
|
|
|
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Hypatos
Offline
Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 33,542
Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!
|
|
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2010, 02:23:59 PM » |
|
Does the Church teach that Christ was born on December 25th?
Does the Church celebrate Christ's birth on some other date? Is the date of our annual celebration of the Nativity supposed to be seen as a dogmatic statement of a historical date? Just because something is not enshrined in dogma, but is hallowed by tradition, does that mean that it can be tossed aside? It may not be dogma, but the Church bids us celebrate the Nativity of Christ on that date, believing that that is the correct day, not because of history, per se, but because it is the day of liturgical celebration. Same thing with the Transfiguration. Aug. 6 has always been the day, even though the Lord, according to the Gospel, was transfigured shortly before His crucifixion. But Aug. 6 is the date, because it is 40 days before the Exaltation of the Holy Cross, on Sept. 14. Then you're talking about something totally different. You're talking about when the Church celebrates a feast, while I'm addressing the OP's question about what the Church says or doesn't say about a particular date in history. The OP's question is: "Does the Church teach that Christ was born on December 25th?", NOT "Does the Church teach that December 25th is the correct date to celebrate Christ's birth?". |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
