Author Topic: Can Catholics live on islands?  (Read 1270 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Perennial1

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 107
  • Faith: Converting to Nestorianism
  • Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Babylon
Can Catholics live on islands?
« on: August 14, 2015, 05:55:14 PM »
Roman Catholicism says that it is a MORTAL sin to not go to Mass on Sunday. If someone chooses to move to an island by oneself for the rest of one's life and never leave, with full knowledge of the teachings of the church, does this mean that one is in mortal sin and will go to hell?

Offline Minnesotan

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,780
  • From the Land of 10,000 Lakes
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2015, 05:58:25 PM »
Roman Catholicism says that it is a MORTAL sin to not go to Mass on Sunday. If someone chooses to move to an island by oneself for the rest of one's life and never leave, with full knowledge of the teachings of the church, does this mean that one is in mortal sin and will go to hell?

Yikes!

I don't see how they can possibly reconcile that with the example of the hermits of the early church era, many of whom lived far, far away from any parish. It's no wonder the (post-schism) RC world never really had eremitic monastics to the same extent the Orthodox world did, what with a teaching like that.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 05:58:57 PM by Minnesotan »
I'm not going to be posting as much on OC.Net as before. I might stop in once in a while though. But I've come to realize that real life is more important.

Offline Cyrillic

  • The Laughing Cavalier
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,685
  • Level 13 Chalcedonian Paladin
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Finland
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2015, 05:59:12 PM »
Why don't you ask this question on a Roman Catholic forum?
At nunc desertis cessant sacraria lucis:
aurum omnes victa iam pietate colunt.
-Propertius, Elegies III.XIII:47-48

Ἀπ' ὃσα ἒκαμα κι ἀπ’ ὃσα εἶπα
νὰ μὴ ζητήσουνε νὰ βροῦν ποιός ἢμουν
-C.P Cavafy

Offline Minnesotan

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,780
  • From the Land of 10,000 Lakes
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2015, 06:03:39 PM »
Quote
Faith: Converting to Nestorianism
Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Babylon

Is this supposed to be a joke? I don't think ACOTE actually has a jurisdiction called the "Patriarchate of Babylon". Their Patriarchate is based in Chicago (since 1980), whereas that of the Ancient Church of the East is in Baghdad.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 06:04:14 PM by Minnesotan »
I'm not going to be posting as much on OC.Net as before. I might stop in once in a while though. But I've come to realize that real life is more important.

Offline Asteriktos

  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 33,343
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2015, 06:24:21 PM »
They may petition to receive a special dispensation from their bishop (pending approval from Rome) to pursue this, and join the St. John the Apostle of the Island of the Apocalypse apostolate. They will then have a priest assigned to them to provide guidance, and will most likely be given a prayer rule considering the isolation factor. They will also have to exchange info with the apostolate and give them support in some form.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 06:24:56 PM by Justin Kissel »
"I, Lucian, wrote this, I who am skilled in what is old and foolish; For what men think wise is foolish. So then nothing that the mind of man can conceive is certain; What you admire, seems ridiculous to others." - St. Lucian of Antioch

Online Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Protostrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,382
  • This dog's body intentionally left blank
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Czech Lands
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2015, 06:28:31 PM »
Roman Catholicism says that it is a MORTAL sin to not go to Mass on Sunday. If someone chooses to move to an island by oneself for the rest of one's life and never leave, with full knowledge of the teachings of the church, does this mean that one is in mortal sin and will go to hell?

Yikes!

I don't see how they can possibly reconcile that with the example of the hermits of the early church era, many of whom lived far, far away from any parish. It's no wonder the (post-schism) RC world never really had eremitic monastics to the same extent the Orthodox world did, what with a teaching like that.

You've never heard of hermit priests, have you?
This is a great day for this forum and for the internet. Mor's energies like a burning comet are raining possibilities for enlightenment upon us all.

Everyone wants Mor.

Mor, you're a jackass.

Online Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Protostrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,382
  • This dog's body intentionally left blank
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Czech Lands
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2015, 06:29:06 PM »
Quote
Faith: Converting to Nestorianism
Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Babylon

Is this supposed to be a joke? I don't think ACOTE actually has a jurisdiction called the "Patriarchate of Babylon". Their Patriarchate is based in Chicago (since 1980), whereas that of the Ancient Church of the East is in Baghdad.

The Patriarchate may be based in Chicago, but the See is definitely not "Patriarchate of Chicago". 
This is a great day for this forum and for the internet. Mor's energies like a burning comet are raining possibilities for enlightenment upon us all.

Everyone wants Mor.

Mor, you're a jackass.

Offline Perennial1

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 107
  • Faith: Converting to Nestorianism
  • Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Babylon
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2015, 06:37:44 PM »
They may petition to receive a special dispensation from their bishop (pending approval from Rome) to pursue this, and join the St. John the Apostle of the Island of the Apocalypse apostolate. They will then have a priest assigned to them to provide guidance, and will most likely be given a prayer rule considering the isolation factor. They will also have to exchange info with the apostolate and give them support in some form.

"St. John the Apostle of the Island of the Apocalypse apostolate"

hahahahahahaha this had me laughing hard for a few minutes.

Offline HaydenTE

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 159
  • Considering conversion to Orthodoxy.
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Inquirer of Orthodoxy
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2015, 08:52:39 PM »
Chances are, if you are prompted to become a hermit, you already are deeply religious, and there are many cases of hermits receiving communion from angels. So, no, becoming a hermit wouldn't be a problem.
"For what shall it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his soul?" - Mark 8:36 (DRA)

Offline Minnesotan

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,780
  • From the Land of 10,000 Lakes
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2015, 09:02:44 PM »
Roman Catholicism says that it is a MORTAL sin to not go to Mass on Sunday. If someone chooses to move to an island by oneself for the rest of one's life and never leave, with full knowledge of the teachings of the church, does this mean that one is in mortal sin and will go to hell?

Yikes!

I don't see how they can possibly reconcile that with the example of the hermits of the early church era, many of whom lived far, far away from any parish. It's no wonder the (post-schism) RC world never really had eremitic monastics to the same extent the Orthodox world did, what with a teaching like that.

You've never heard of hermit priests, have you?

Well no, actually. If they're really living all alone with little or no human contact, where would they obtain what they need to do their duties as a priest? It's pretty hard to grow your own wheat and grapes in the desert, or in much of Siberia.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 09:02:50 PM by Minnesotan »
I'm not going to be posting as much on OC.Net as before. I might stop in once in a while though. But I've come to realize that real life is more important.

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Humble Servant and Spokesperson of the Fourteenth Apostle
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 16,001
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2015, 11:58:39 PM »
St. Mary of Egypt wasn't on a desert island, but she was solitary in the desert, so it's kind of the same thing.
Quote from: King Olav Tryggvasson
I order you and all your subjects to be baptized. If you refuse, I'll have you killed on the spot and I swear I will ravage every island with fire and steel.

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant, but you can call me Elder
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,029
  • Άγιος κέιθ ο Υμνογράφος και Μελωδός, να μας σώσει!
    • Blog
  • Faith: Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
  • Jurisdiction: Russo-Finn Orthodox Church Outside Spain
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2015, 02:00:48 AM »
Roman Catholicism says that it is a MORTAL sin to not go to Mass on Sunday. If someone chooses to move to an island by oneself for the rest of one's life and never leave, with full knowledge of the teachings of the church, does this mean that one is in mortal sin and will go to hell?

Yikes!

I don't see how they can possibly reconcile that with the example of the hermits of the early church era, many of whom lived far, far away from any parish. It's no wonder the (post-schism) RC world never really had eremitic monastics to the same extent the Orthodox world did, what with a teaching like that.

You've never heard of hermit priests, have you?

Well no, actually. If they're really living all alone with little or no human contact, where would they obtain what they need to do their duties as a priest? It's pretty hard to grow your own wheat and grapes in the desert, or in much of Siberia.

There are RC hermits (both lay and priests) that live in different environments, even cities.  A priest would get what he needed by his bishop.  RC priests may celebrate mass alone.  For those that are truly isolated, then they do without. It's not like they stop being a priest all of a sudden.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline wgw

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,068
  • The above Syriac icon is of St. Athansius.
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Syriac Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2015, 02:03:51 AM »
Isnt there a Roman Catholic equivalent of the Typika?  There is a blog, Blue Hermit, run by an MD who lives as a hermit in the Gambia and provides free medical care ro the predominantly Muslim village.  He is a Penitential Hermit of Divine Mercy but not a priest.  He acts as a spiritual director to the small number of Catholics in the village, and about once a month or two, a priest will travel to his hermitage to celebrate the Mass amd distribute the Eucharist to the laity.

I think the Roman alternative for the Mass in some religious orders is the Missa Sicca or Missa Venatoris, also used by hunters, which is a highly abbrevoated set of prayers from the mass, without the consecration or service of the Eucharist.   The Carthusians pray this daily in the privacy of their cells in addition to the conventual mass.

Offline wgw

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,068
  • The above Syriac icon is of St. Athansius.
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Syriac Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2015, 02:05:37 AM »
Here we go, instructions from several saints, on FishEaters:

https://www.fisheaters.com/TLMmissingmass.html

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant, but you can call me Elder
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,029
  • Άγιος κέιθ ο Υμνογράφος και Μελωδός, να μας σώσει!
    • Blog
  • Faith: Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
  • Jurisdiction: Russo-Finn Orthodox Church Outside Spain
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2015, 02:13:11 AM »
Isnt there a Roman Catholic equivalent of the Typika?  There is a blog, Blue Hermit, run by an MD who lives as a hermit in the Gambia and provides free medical care ro the predominantly Muslim village.  He is a Penitential Hermit of Divine Mercy but not a priest.  He acts as a spiritual director to the small number of Catholics in the village, and about once a month or two, a priest will travel to his hermitage to celebrate the Mass amd distribute the Eucharist to the laity.

I think the Roman alternative for the Mass in some religious orders is the Missa Sicca or Missa Venatoris, also used by hunters, which is a highly abbrevoated set of prayers from the mass, without the consecration or service of the Eucharist.   The Carthusians pray this daily in the privacy of their cells in addition to the conventual mass.

They would probably pray the Divine Office daily and read a lot of Scripture.

Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline Perennial1

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 107
  • Faith: Converting to Nestorianism
  • Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Babylon
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2015, 09:20:47 AM »
Here we go, instructions from several saints, on FishEaters:

https://www.fisheaters.com/TLMmissingmass.html
Its says

Quote
We are obliged to attend Mass each Sunday and on every other Holy Day of Obligation. Sometimes, though, we just can't be there. One's own sickness or the obligations to care for a sick person 1, having given birth within the past 6 weeks, dangerous weather (and other safety hazards), not being able to find a way there -- life happens. There is no guilt in missing Mass if the circumstances are out of one's control (mortal sin always requires not only grave matter and knowledge, but consent of the will).



Wouldn't it be in someone's "consent of will" to not go to Mass if they choose to move to a desert island, not for any religious reason but just because they feel like it?

But according to this...

Quote
And sometimes, there is no Mass readily-enough available. The rule of thumb concerning Mass availability is that if one is required to travel more than an hour to reach a Mass, one is not guilty of sin by not attending.

If someone chooses to move 1:01:00 min away from a mass then one will be fine and won't commit a mortal sin and go to hell. But if they live 0:55:00 min away then they are risking their eternal damnation.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 09:28:21 AM by Perennial1 »

Offline biro

  • Excelsior
  • Site Supporter
  • Hoplitarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,442
  • Here's where the story ends
    • St. George Church
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2015, 12:31:07 PM »
Isnt there a Roman Catholic equivalent of the Typika?  There is a blog, Blue Hermit, run by an MD who lives as a hermit in the Gambia and provides free medical care ro the predominantly Muslim village.  He is a Penitential Hermit of Divine Mercy but not a priest.  He acts as a spiritual director to the small number of Catholics in the village, and about once a month or two, a priest will travel to his hermitage to celebrate the Mass amd distribute the Eucharist to the laity.

I think the Roman alternative for the Mass in some religious orders is the Missa Sicca or Missa Venatoris, also used by hunters, which is a highly abbrevoated set of prayers from the mass, without the consecration or service of the Eucharist.   The Carthusians pray this daily in the privacy of their cells in addition to the conventual mass.

They would probably pray the Divine Office daily and read a lot of Scripture.

I think so too. When I was in that church, I used the prayers of the Hours book, which was a four-book set, and a Missal. A lot to carry around. :)
petfinder.com

Black hole sun, won't you come and wash away the rain

Online Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Protostrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,382
  • This dog's body intentionally left blank
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Czech Lands
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2015, 01:43:13 PM »
Roman Catholicism says that it is a MORTAL sin to not go to Mass on Sunday. If someone chooses to move to an island by oneself for the rest of one's life and never leave, with full knowledge of the teachings of the church, does this mean that one is in mortal sin and will go to hell?

Yikes!

I don't see how they can possibly reconcile that with the example of the hermits of the early church era, many of whom lived far, far away from any parish. It's no wonder the (post-schism) RC world never really had eremitic monastics to the same extent the Orthodox world did, what with a teaching like that.

You've never heard of hermit priests, have you?

Well no, actually. If they're really living all alone with little or no human contact, where would they obtain what they need to do their duties as a priest? It's pretty hard to grow your own wheat and grapes in the desert, or in much of Siberia.

"Hermit" =/= "Never Ever Sees Anyone Ever Again Ever"

Even the desert hermits of our tradition would typically go to their monasteries on Saturday and leave after the Sunday Liturgy and meal.  If they didn't leave their hermitages even for that, there would be monks or other people to bring them supplies and check in on them.  RC hermits live a similar lifestyle. 
This is a great day for this forum and for the internet. Mor's energies like a burning comet are raining possibilities for enlightenment upon us all.

Everyone wants Mor.

Mor, you're a jackass.

Offline biro

  • Excelsior
  • Site Supporter
  • Hoplitarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,442
  • Here's where the story ends
    • St. George Church
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2015, 01:54:29 PM »
The solution is easy: build a chapel on the island.

Also, see if you can get a priest to move there.

If you can't, visit the nearest church with a priest.
petfinder.com

Black hole sun, won't you come and wash away the rain

Offline wynd

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 551
  • Transfiguration
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2015, 11:44:32 AM »
Chances are, if you are prompted to become a hermit, you already are deeply religious, and there are many cases of hermits receiving communion from angels. So, no, becoming a hermit wouldn't be a problem.

The obligation is to attend Mass, not to receive communion.

Offline HaydenTE

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 159
  • Considering conversion to Orthodoxy.
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Inquirer of Orthodoxy
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2015, 06:13:22 PM »
Chances are, if you are prompted to become a hermit, you already are deeply religious, and there are many cases of hermits receiving communion from angels. So, no, becoming a hermit wouldn't be a problem.

The obligation is to attend Mass, not to receive communion.

If I read this correctly, this states that reception of communion suffices.

Quote
The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor. Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin. (CCC. 2180 and 2181)

It also states that the hermit could be allowed to miss Mass if permitted by a hierarch.
"For what shall it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his soul?" - Mark 8:36 (DRA)

Offline Perennial1

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 107
  • Faith: Converting to Nestorianism
  • Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Babylon
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2015, 06:21:21 AM »
Chances are, if you are prompted to become a hermit, you already are deeply religious, and there are many cases of hermits receiving communion from angels. So, no, becoming a hermit wouldn't be a problem.

The obligation is to attend Mass, not to receive communion.

If I read this correctly, this states that reception of communion suffices.

Quote
The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor. Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin. (CCC. 2180 and 2181)

It also states that the hermit could be allowed to miss Mass if permitted by a hierarch.

I'm not talking about monasticism. I'm talking about someone who just wants to go live on an island bc he likes it there

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Humble Servant and Spokesperson of the Fourteenth Apostle
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 16,001
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2015, 10:02:57 AM »
Chances are, if you are prompted to become a hermit, you already are deeply religious, and there are many cases of hermits receiving communion from angels. So, no, becoming a hermit wouldn't be a problem.

The obligation is to attend Mass, not to receive communion.

If I read this correctly, this states that reception of communion suffices.

Quote
The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor. Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin. (CCC. 2180 and 2181)

It also states that the hermit could be allowed to miss Mass if permitted by a hierarch.

I'm not talking about monasticism. I'm talking about someone who just wants to go live on an island bc he likes it there
Would that be any different than someone who takes a job in an area where there is no parish nearby?
Quote from: King Olav Tryggvasson
I order you and all your subjects to be baptized. If you refuse, I'll have you killed on the spot and I swear I will ravage every island with fire and steel.

Offline biro

  • Excelsior
  • Site Supporter
  • Hoplitarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,442
  • Here's where the story ends
    • St. George Church
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2015, 11:26:25 AM »
When I was in that church, I honestly don't remember any rules against living on an island. Ideally, one was supposed to live close enough to a church that you could go there regularly. But they didn't tell me anything special about islands being a different situation. I did grow up in Queens, New York, which technically is on an island. :) But there are plenty of Catholics there.
petfinder.com

Black hole sun, won't you come and wash away the rain

Offline Gamliel

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,659
  • "Truth is born as lightning strikes -- Archilochos
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of San Francisco
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2015, 11:35:46 AM »

Offline wynd

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 551
  • Transfiguration
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2015, 11:38:24 AM »
Chances are, if you are prompted to become a hermit, you already are deeply religious, and there are many cases of hermits receiving communion from angels. So, no, becoming a hermit wouldn't be a problem.

The obligation is to attend Mass, not to receive communion.

If I read this correctly, this states that reception of communion suffices.

Quote
The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor. Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin. (CCC. 2180 and 2181)

It also states that the hermit could be allowed to miss Mass if permitted by a hierarch.

You left out the actual text of CCC 2180, which references the Code of Canon Law 1247.

Quote
CCC 2180: The precept of the Church specifies the law of the Lord more precisely: "On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound to participate in the Mass." "The precept of participating in the Mass is satisfied by assistance at a Mass which is celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the holy day or on the evening of the preceding day."

CIC 1247: On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are obliged to participate in the Mass. Moreover, they are to abstain from those works and affairs which hinder the worship to be rendered to God, the joy proper to the Lord’s day, or the suitable relaxation of mind and body.

Offline WPM

  • Revolutionary Writer
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,403
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2015, 11:44:18 AM »
I know about the Caribbean and certain places like the Banana Republic.

Offline seekeroftruth777

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,165
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2015, 12:16:28 PM »
I know about the Caribbean and certain places like the Banana Republic.

Banana Republic? aren't you thinking of Washington, D.C.

Offline seekeroftruth777

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,165
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2015, 12:18:52 PM »


so is Gilligan is the next pope? and Ginger the next the next Mother Theresa?

Offline PeterTheAleut

  • The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,746
  • Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2015, 12:34:29 PM »


so is Gilligan is the next pope? and Ginger the next the next Mother Theresa?
No, but I do recall reading something that spoke of the seven castaways as each characterizing one of the Seven Deadly Sins.
Not all who wander are lost.

Online Arachne

  • Trinary Unit || Resident Bossy Boots
  • Section Moderator
  • Taxiarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,052
  • This will have been fun.
  • Faith: Cradle Greek Orthodox. Cope.
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian Archdiocese, UK
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2015, 01:35:12 PM »
Roman Catholicism says that it is a MORTAL sin to not go to Mass on Sunday. If someone chooses to move to an island by oneself for the rest of one's life and never leave, with full knowledge of the teachings of the church, does this mean that one is in mortal sin and will go to hell?

You didn't specify whether that someone cares about the teachings of the church.
'When you live your path all the time, you end up with both more path and more time.'~Venecia Rauls

Blog ~ Bookshelf ~ Jukebox ~

Offline Reader KevinAndrew

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 145
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian Western Rite Vicariate
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2015, 12:59:30 PM »
Isnt there a Roman Catholic equivalent of the Typika?  There is a blog, Blue Hermit, run by an MD who lives as a hermit in the Gambia and provides free medical care ro the predominantly Muslim village.  He is a Penitential Hermit of Divine Mercy but not a priest.  He acts as a spiritual director to the small number of Catholics in the village, and about once a month or two, a priest will travel to his hermitage to celebrate the Mass amd distribute the Eucharist to the laity.

I think the Roman alternative for the Mass in some religious orders is the Missa Sicca or Missa Venatoris, also used by hunters, which is a highly abbrevoated set of prayers from the mass, without the consecration or service of the Eucharist.   The Carthusians pray this daily in the privacy of their cells in addition to the conventual mass.

They would probably pray the Divine Office daily and read a lot of Scripture.

I think so too. When I was in that church, I used the prayers of the Hours book, which was a four-book set, and a Missal. A lot to carry around. :)

It's all on iPad now :)

Offline homedad76

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 864
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2015, 01:27:18 PM »
Wouldn't it be in someone's "consent of will" to not go to Mass if they choose to move to a desert island, not for any religious reason but just because they feel like it?

Actually, yes.  I would say if a person moves to an island strictly for their own non-religious reasons knowing they will not have access to Mass then they clearly violate the rules.  They would be obligated to find some kind of arrangement otherwise they are making a decision directly against the command of God to worship.

Quote
But according to this...

Quote from: wgw
And sometimes, there is no Mass readily-enough available. The rule of thumb concerning Mass availability is that if one is required to travel more than an hour to reach a Mass, one is not guilty of sin by not attending.

If someone chooses to move 1:01:00 min away from a mass then one will be fine and won't commit a mortal sin and go to hell. But if they live 0:55:00 min away then they are risking their eternal damnation.

I think perhaps you don't grasp the concept of a "rule of thumb".  If somebody deliberately moves 1 hour and 1 minute away (which would take some real planning) just for the sake of a perceived loophole they are more guilty then the one who lives 55 minutes away and can't make the trip.
"However hard I try, I find it impossible to construct anything greater than these three words, 'Love one another' —only to the end, and without exceptions: then all is justified and life is illumined, whereas otherwise it is an abomination and a burden."

—Mother Maria of Paris

Offline christiane777

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 272
  • Il n’est pas certain que tout soit incertain.
  • Faith: Roman Catholic
  • Jurisdiction: God
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2015, 02:21:13 PM »
Roman Catholicism says that it is a MORTAL sin to not go to Mass on Sunday. If someone chooses to move to an island by oneself for the rest of one's life and never leave, with full knowledge of the teachings of the church, does this mean that one is in mortal sin and will go to hell?

Yikes!

I don't see how they can possibly reconcile that with the example of the hermits of the early church era, many of whom lived far, far away from any parish. It's no wonder the (post-schism) RC world never really had eremitic monastics to the same extent the Orthodox world did, what with a teaching like that.

Agreed.  I think God takes care of his hermits, desert monks (West and Eastern variety).  For all I know he tends to his saints this way too - but I am hesitant to presume I am a saint so I regularly go to Mass - just to be safe.  To me Mass is an encounter with Christ, so I think it is odd that someone would forsake that for other things  ("I'm too busy" just sounds odd to me in this context).  But, as far as I am concerned,  if the miss is for a good cause - and not too often - you're ok...    :)
« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 02:22:44 PM by christiane777 »
Your soul has been assailed by cowardice, which often weighs so heavily on a man--distracting him from honourable trials--as phantoms frighten beasts when shadows fall.

Offline Alpo

  • Lying Chalcedonian Liar
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,059
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2015, 02:31:41 PM »
Oh yes, God will punish you for not doing something you can't do. Sounds legit.
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

Offline podkarpatska

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,690
  • Pokrov
    • ACROD (home)
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2015, 03:01:36 PM »
Roman Catholicism says that it is a MORTAL sin to not go to Mass on Sunday. If someone chooses to move to an island by oneself for the rest of one's life and never leave, with full knowledge of the teachings of the church, does this mean that one is in mortal sin and will go to hell?

Yikes!

I don't see how they can possibly reconcile that with the example of the hermits of the early church era, many of whom lived far, far away from any parish. It's no wonder the (post-schism) RC world never really had eremitic monastics to the same extent the Orthodox world did, what with a teaching like that.

You've never heard of hermit priests, have you?

Manhattan is an island....



(I couldn't help myself...not a serious answer....)

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Strategos
  • ******************
  • Posts: 39,943
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2015, 11:35:37 PM »
Roman Catholicism says that it is a MORTAL sin to not go to Mass on Sunday. If someone chooses to move to an island by oneself for the rest of one's life and never leave, with full knowledge of the teachings of the church, does this mean that one is in mortal sin and will go to hell?

Yikes!

I don't see how they can possibly reconcile that with the example of the hermits of the early church era, many of whom lived far, far away from any parish. It's no wonder the (post-schism) RC world never really had eremitic monastics to the same extent the Orthodox world did, what with a teaching like that.

You've never heard of hermit priests, have you?

Manhattan is an island....



(I couldn't help myself...not a serious answer....)
Malta, the most Vaticanista country statistically, is an island.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline MalpanaGiwargis

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 257
  • Māran etraḥam 'lay!
  • Faith: Orthodox inquirer
Re: Can Catholics live on islands?
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2015, 07:17:31 PM »
Roman Catholicism says that it is a MORTAL sin to not go to Mass on Sunday. If someone chooses to move to an island by oneself for the rest of one's life and never leave, with full knowledge of the teachings of the church, does this mean that one is in mortal sin and will go to hell?

It is a grave sin to deliberately break canon law; to do so with full knowledge and consent of the will makes it a mortal sin. The precept to attend Mass on every Sunday and Holy Day of Obligation is of ecclesiastical law, not divine law, so the Church can dispense from that, and furthermore the obligation ceases when it becomes physically or morally impossible to observe the law. If someone moved away from available Masses for the purpose of being away from Mass, that would probably be sinful. If there is another weighty reason for the move and the impossibility of attending Mass is merely foreseen but not intended, that is probably not sinful, though a conversation with a priest before the move is probably in order.

To live as a hermit requires the permission of the local bishop and the observance of his "program of living" (Can. 603 §2), which would most likely contain some provision for attending Mass.
Woe is me, that I have read the commandments,
   and have become learned in the Scriptures,
and have been instructed in Your glories,
   and yet I have become occupied in shameful things!

(Giwargis Warda, On Compunction of Soul)