Author Topic: Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?  (Read 26747 times)

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Offline synLeszka

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Re: Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?
« Reply #450 on: September 21, 2010, 02:41:17 AM »

Because, of course, only those dirty, filthy Americans would be crude and lustful enough to stoop to the level of artificial birth control (I can only assume this is what you are implying); righteous and upstanding Europeans would never stoop to such levels of debauchery.

The Americans were the first, the pioneers in this field. Then came Western Europe and now American capital is forcing on Eastern Europe, American-style religion and morality.

Offline stanley123

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Re: Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?
« Reply #451 on: September 21, 2010, 03:08:51 AM »

Because, of course, only those dirty, filthy Americans would be crude and lustful enough to stoop to the level of artificial birth control (I can only assume this is what you are implying); righteous and upstanding Europeans would never stoop to such levels of debauchery.

The Americans were the first, the pioneers in this field. Then came Western Europe and now American capital is forcing on Eastern Europe, American-style religion and morality.
When they were under Communism, many Eastern Europeans thought that they wanted American style culture. Perhaps now many of them are having second thoughts.

Offline Aindriú

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Re: Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?
« Reply #452 on: September 21, 2010, 08:51:16 AM »

Because, of course, only those dirty, filthy Americans would be crude and lustful enough to stoop to the level of artificial birth control (I can only assume this is what you are implying); righteous and upstanding Europeans would never stoop to such levels of debauchery.

The Americans were the first, the pioneers in this field. Then came Western Europe and now American capital is forcing on Eastern Europe, American-style religion and morality.
When they were under Communism, many Eastern Europeans thought that they wanted American style culture. Perhaps now many of them are having second thoughts.

Hmm, either fight liberal birth control or deal with the highest abortion rates under the Soviets. Both are caused by economic conditions. I think you can figueout which one was for being poor. Oh well, the soviets at least tried to stamp out religion and replace it with the state. Oh wait. That was a BAD thing...

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Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?
« Reply #453 on: February 02, 2011, 10:00:05 PM »
Deleted.  Wrong thread.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2011, 10:06:23 PM by Irish Hermit »

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?
« Reply #454 on: February 02, 2011, 11:03:08 PM »

Because, of course, only those dirty, filthy Americans would be crude and lustful enough to stoop to the level of artificial birth control (I can only assume this is what you are implying); righteous and upstanding Europeans would never stoop to such levels of debauchery.

The Americans were the first, the pioneers in this field. Then came Western Europe and now American capital is forcing on Eastern Europe, American-style religion and morality.

lulz @ forcing.
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Re: Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?
« Reply #455 on: February 02, 2011, 11:17:19 PM »

Because, of course, only those dirty, filthy Americans would be crude and lustful enough to stoop to the level of artificial birth control (I can only assume this is what you are implying); righteous and upstanding Europeans would never stoop to such levels of debauchery.

The Americans were the first, the pioneers in this field. Then came Western Europe and now American capital is forcing on Eastern Europe, American-style religion and morality.

Oh really?  ABCs were used in ancient Mesopotamia and the Soviet Union was at the forefront of doling out artificial birth control to its citizens long before some idiot principals in the United States started handing out condoms to school students. 
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Offline Wyatt

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Re: Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?
« Reply #456 on: February 03, 2011, 11:37:40 PM »
The Pope is infallible because he is orthodox.

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?
« Reply #457 on: April 03, 2011, 10:41:52 AM »
Quote
Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?

The Pope is infallible because he is orthodox.

The real question is, would the Orthodox be infallible if they followed the Pope?

Offline elijahmaria

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Re: Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?
« Reply #458 on: April 03, 2011, 11:30:38 AM »
Quote
Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?

The Pope is infallible because he is orthodox.

The real question is, would the Orthodox be infallible if they followed the Pope?

And the answer is:  drum roll

Nobody is infallible without the Holy Spirit and the Church....

 :)...Amen!!

Offline Wyatt

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Re: Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?
« Reply #459 on: April 03, 2011, 12:23:05 PM »
Quote
Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?

The Pope is infallible because he is orthodox.

The real question is, would the Orthodox be infallible if they followed the Pope?

And the answer is:  drum roll

Nobody is infallible without the Holy Spirit and the Church....

 :)...Amen!!
And the Bishop of Rome as Supreme Pontiff and Successor to the Prince of the Apostles sometimes exercises this charism of the Church by virtue of his office.  ;D

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?
« Reply #460 on: April 17, 2011, 03:31:45 AM »
Quote
Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?

The Pope is infallible because he is orthodox.

The real question is, would the Orthodox be infallible if they followed the Pope?

And the answer is:  drum roll

Nobody is infallible without the Holy Spirit and the Church....

 :)...Amen!!

I don't think they would be, but that's just me...

Offline ativan

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Re: Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?
« Reply #461 on: April 17, 2011, 03:44:54 AM »
That is not what the dogma Papal Infallibility teaches AT ALL.
For the Pope to teach infallibly, he must be intending to teach as the Pope, ex cathedra.
This is completely out of my rich. What is so special with cathedra? How come popes are filled with grace only when they sit on the cathedra? I'm actually very interested with details of it. When a pope sits on the cathedra Holy Spirit is descended on him and when he gets up the Spirit lives him, is this so? Or how does it work?

Also very interesting questions, at least to me, are 1) If the sitting on the cathedra makes popes infallible why don't they sit on it frequently? 2) Or why did they not pronounce the dogmas of papal infallibility and filioque ex cathedra? :)

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?
« Reply #462 on: April 17, 2011, 03:52:01 AM »
Quote
Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?

The Pope is infallible because he is orthodox.

The real question is, would the Orthodox be infallible if they followed the Pope?

And the answer is:  drum roll

Nobody is infallible without the Holy Spirit and the Church....

 :)...Amen!!

Wow!  A full frontal assault on papal infallibility from a Byzantine Catholic!


From the infallible definition: "...and consequently that such definitions of the Roman Pontiff are irreformable of their own nature (ex sese) and not by reason of the Church's consent."

"It should be observed in conclusion that papal infallibility is a personal and incommunicable charisma, which is not shared by any pontifical tribunal. It was promised directly to Peter, and to each of Peter's successors in the primacy, but not as a prerogative the exercise of which could be delegated to others."

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm#IIIB

Offline Punch

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Re: Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?
« Reply #463 on: April 17, 2011, 09:23:28 AM »
Quote
Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?

The Pope is infallible because he is orthodox.

The real question is, would the Orthodox be infallible if they followed the Pope?

Easy question to answer.  No.  They would no longer be Orthodox.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Michał

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Re: Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?
« Reply #464 on: April 17, 2011, 10:29:32 AM »
If the sitting on the cathedra makes popes infallible why don't they sit on it frequently?

Because, as you can see on this picture, Bernini forgot to install some kind of stairs or a ladder leading to it. ;)
« Last Edit: April 17, 2011, 10:30:07 AM by Michał »

Offline elijahmaria

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Re: Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?
« Reply #465 on: April 17, 2011, 11:04:29 AM »
Quote
Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?

The Pope is infallible because he is orthodox.

The real question is, would the Orthodox be infallible if they followed the Pope?

And the answer is:  drum roll

Nobody is infallible without the Holy Spirit and the Church....

 :)...Amen!!

Wow!  A full frontal assault on papal infallibility from a Byzantine Catholic!


From the infallible definition: "...and consequently that such definitions of the Roman Pontiff are irreformable of their own nature (ex sese) and not by reason of the Church's consent."

"It should be observed in conclusion that papal infallibility is a personal and incommunicable charisma, which is not shared by any pontifical tribunal. It was promised directly to Peter, and to each of Peter's successors in the primacy, but not as a prerogative the exercise of which could be delegated to others."

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm#IIIB

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Not really.  Since his is the court of LAST resort, it is true that once he has consulted with his bishops and looked at the long tradition of the Church, in order to make his decision, THEN it cannot be overturned by current dissenting bishops or future bishops who say..."Welllll...maybe not..."...Kinda like a true universal council.  Once it is done.  It is done.

And yes, the Pope is the singularity that makes that decision when it is incumbent upon him to do so...and you should be very happy...because the latter paragraph says he can do so without catering to the Curia...I think that one is a good idea personally, but then maybe I am more familiar with the workings of the curia...eh?

No frontal assault Father.  Just a good hard look at the reality of the teaching...as it is...not as the Orthodox try to feed it to me.

Your own logic missed an entire major premise but I am accustomed to that in discussions on primacy and infallibility.

M.

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?
« Reply #466 on: April 17, 2011, 11:12:50 AM »

 happy...because the latter paragraph says he can do so without catering to the Curia...I think that one is a good idea personally, but then maybe I am more familiar with the workings of the curia...eh?

I am sure that you would be.  For me it's been over 30 years!

Offline elijahmaria

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Re: Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?
« Reply #467 on: April 17, 2011, 11:19:27 AM »

 happy...because the latter paragraph says he can do so without catering to the Curia...I think that one is a good idea personally, but then maybe I am more familiar with the workings of the curia...eh?

I am sure that you would be.  For me it's been over 30 years!

That's a long time Father...You've been a good and faithful servant and that is no small thing!

I've been thinking about you lately and wish you a very blessed Holy Week.  This year I am especially looking forward to it.  It's a kind of going-home excitement that I feel in my belly...I like that when it happens.

 :)

Rosie

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?
« Reply #468 on: April 17, 2011, 11:40:21 AM »

 happy...because the latter paragraph says he can do so without catering to the Curia...I think that one is a good idea personally, but then maybe I am more familiar with the workings of the curia...eh?

I am sure that you would be.  For me it's been over 30 years!

That's a long time Father...You've been a good and faithful servant and that is no small thing!

I've been thinking about you lately and wish you a very blessed Holy Week.  This year I am especially looking forward to it.  It's a kind of going-home excitement that I feel in my belly...I like that when it happens.

 :)

Rosie

You're being extra nice to me, Blackthorn Rosie.  :)  I ask your forgiveness as we set out into Holy Week for all the scratchy exchanges we have had this last year.  I still have a great respect and affection for you, from the days when we battled side by side to uphold the reality of the hypostatic union in respect to the Eucharistic Presence of the Lord.

Offline elijahmaria

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Re: Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?
« Reply #469 on: April 17, 2011, 12:00:13 PM »

 happy...because the latter paragraph says he can do so without catering to the Curia...I think that one is a good idea personally, but then maybe I am more familiar with the workings of the curia...eh?

I am sure that you would be.  For me it's been over 30 years!

That's a long time Father...You've been a good and faithful servant and that is no small thing!

I've been thinking about you lately and wish you a very blessed Holy Week.  This year I am especially looking forward to it.  It's a kind of going-home excitement that I feel in my belly...I like that when it happens.

 :)

Rosie

You're being extra nice to me, Blackthorn Rosie.  :)  I ask your forgiveness as we set out into Holy Week for all the scratchy exchanges we have had this last year.  I still have a great respect and affection for you, from the days when we battled side by side to uphold the reality of the hypostatic union in respect to the Eucharistic Presence of the Lord.

Yes.  I am letting you know that I am sorry.  Because I sinned against God and you were the object.  I did not become angry with you.   That would have been easy.  But I became disaffected and that is far worse.  It happened once with me with my son.  It is a form of despair and far worse than anger.  It is gone now and I doubt that it will ever return where you or he are concerned. 

I forgive you, of course, because I have every hope that you forgive me!  You are a priest, and from what I can see, you are a good one and that has great meaning to me....and yes...more than anything else we are believers.  So we don't want to dump that kind of connection in the trash can.

Much love, in Christ

M.

Offline Peter J

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Re: Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?
« Reply #470 on: April 17, 2011, 04:35:14 PM »
That is not what the dogma Papal Infallibility teaches AT ALL.
For the Pope to teach infallibly, he must be intending to teach as the Pope, ex cathedra.
This is completely out of my rich. What is so special with cathedra? How come popes are filled with grace only when they sit on the cathedra? I'm actually very interested with details of it. When a pope sits on the cathedra Holy Spirit is descended on him and when he gets up the Spirit lives him, is this so? Or how does it work?

Also very interesting questions, at least to me, are 1) If the sitting on the cathedra makes popes infallible why don't they sit on it frequently? 2) Or why did they not pronounce the dogmas of papal infallibility and filioque ex cathedra? :)

When I learned about "ex cathedra" (literally "from the chair") in college (a Catholic college BTW), I was under the impression that it had something to do with the Pope's physical location. It was only years later that I learned that it doesn't.
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline Peter J

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Re: Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?
« Reply #471 on: April 17, 2011, 04:37:20 PM »
If the sitting on the cathedra makes popes infallible why don't they sit on it frequently?

Because, as you can see on this picture, Bernini forgot to install some kind of stairs or a ladder leading to it. ;)

What, you think Popes are subject to gravity, like the rest of us?

  ;D
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Offline Michał

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Re: Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?
« Reply #472 on: April 17, 2011, 04:53:53 PM »
If the sitting on the cathedra makes popes infallible why don't they sit on it frequently?

Because, as you can see on this picture, Bernini forgot to install some kind of stairs or a ladder leading to it. ;)

What, you think Popes are subject to gravity, like the rest of us?

  ;D

Sorry, I forgot.



;)

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?
« Reply #473 on: January 29, 2012, 01:07:00 AM »
Quote
Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?

The Pope is infallible because he is orthodox.

The real question is, would the Orthodox be infallible if they followed the Pope?

Easy question to answer.  No.  They would no longer be Orthodox.

Darn. You got it.

Offline Peter J

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Re: Would the Pope Be Infallible If He Became Orthodox?
« Reply #474 on: January 29, 2012, 09:53:39 AM »
But he is infallible, isn't he?
That is not what the dogma Papal Infallibility teaches AT ALL.
For the Pope to teach infallibly, he must be intending to teach as the Pope, ex cathedra.

In the many conversations that I have had with Catholics about P.I., one thing you guys never seem to talk about is the fact that Pastor Aeternus didn't actually say "intend".

Catholics just always seem to assume that if the pope intends something as an ex cathedra statement, then it must be an ex cathedra statement.
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