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Author Topic: Wake-Up Call for Catholics in US and Europe  (Read 1722 times) Average Rating: 0
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elijahmaria
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« on: September 02, 2010, 12:16:35 PM »

http://www.archden.org/index.cfm/ID/4396

Charles Chaput, Catholic Archbishop of Denver Colorado, addressed the first session of the 15th symposium for the Canon Law Association of Slovakia on Tuesday. He called upon Catholics in America and in Europe, to resist the world's intolerance of Christianity.

Tertullian once famously said that the blood of martyrs is the seed of the Church.  History has proven that to be true.  And Slovakia is the perfect place for us to revisit his words today.  Here, and throughout central and eastern Europe, Catholics suffered through 50 years of Nazi and Soviet murder regimes.  So they know the real cost of Christian witness from bitter experience -- and also, unfortunately, the cost of cowardice, collaboration and self-delusion in the face of evil. I want to begin by suggesting that many Catholics in the United States and Western Europe today simply don’t understand those costs.  Nor do they seem to care.  As a result, many are indifferent to the process in our countries that social scientists like to call “secularization” – but which, in practice, involves repudiating the Christian roots and soul of our civilization.
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mike
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« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2010, 12:19:03 PM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jozef_Tiso

Poor Catholics under the Nazis.
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elijahmaria
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« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2010, 12:44:38 PM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jozef_Tiso

Poor Catholics under the Nazis.

Yes.  We do understand that there are no Orthodox Nazis, Communists, Fascists or murderers of any kind.

We know that no Orthodox believer has ever lied or broken a promise. 

We are painfully aware of the impeccability of Orthodox believers.

Mary
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« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2010, 12:50:03 PM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jozef_Tiso

Poor Catholics under the Nazis.

Wow, really? How about a thread without that, can we?

Or we can just start this, that's cool...

Orthodox priests and the Neo-Nazi's....
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,29454.0.html

Wait that's more current... maybe it says more about the individual and not the church.... Nahhhh
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« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2010, 12:51:58 PM »

Saying that Catholics under Tiso's Slovakia "suffered" is a meanness, nothing more.
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« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2010, 12:54:19 PM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jozef_Tiso

Poor Catholics under the Nazis.

Yes.  We do understand that there are no Orthodox Nazis, Communists, Fascists or murderers of any kind.

We know that no Orthodox believer has ever lied or broken a promise. 

We are painfully aware of the impeccability of Orthodox believers.

Mary
Wouldn't Fr. Ambrose argue that all EOs are Immaculately conceived?  laugh
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« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2010, 12:59:55 PM »

Polish Catholics suffered under the nazis, Rumania (predominantly Orthodox) was allied w/ nazi Germany, Greek & Serb orthodox suffered axis atrocities etc... it is too complicated to become sectarian in regards to World War II Europe.
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« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2010, 01:00:30 PM »

Polish Catholics suffered under the nazis, Rumania (predominantly Orthodox) was allied w/ nazi Germany, Greek & Serb orthodox suffered axis atrocities etc... it is too complicated to become sectarian in regards to World War II Europe.
AMEN!
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« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2010, 01:02:16 PM »

He spoke directly about Slovakia. This means that is a historic ignorant or a boor.
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« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2010, 09:35:22 PM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jozef_Tiso

Poor Catholics under the Nazis.

Yes.  We do understand that there are no Orthodox Nazis, Communists, Fascists or murderers of any kind.

We know that no Orthodox believer has ever lied or broken a promise. 

We are painfully aware of the impeccability of Orthodox believers.

Mary
Wouldn't Fr. Ambrose argue that all EOs are Immaculately conceived?  laugh

Well, it cuts both ways.... if the All-Holy One was immaculately conceived then so am I and Pope Benedict and the Dalai Lama.  But if she wasn't immaculately conceived then neither are the rest of us.  We all share one and the same manner of conception.
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PeterTheAleut
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« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2010, 01:15:45 AM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jozef_Tiso

Poor Catholics under the Nazis.

Yes.  We do understand that there are no Orthodox Nazis, Communists, Fascists or murderers of any kind.

We know that no Orthodox believer has ever lied or broken a promise.  

We are painfully aware of the impeccability of Orthodox believers.

Mary
Wouldn't Fr. Ambrose argue that all EOs are Immaculately conceived?  laugh

Well, it cuts both ways.... if the All-Holy One was immaculately conceived then so am I and Pope Benedict and the Dalai Lama.  But if she wasn't immaculately conceived then neither are the rest of us.  We all share one and the same manner of conception.
Can we not have one discussion here without it being about the Immaculate Conception? Wink
« Last Edit: September 03, 2010, 01:16:06 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
elijahmaria
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« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2010, 03:34:25 AM »

Saying that Catholics under Tiso's Slovakia "suffered" is a meanness, nothing more.

To say they did not is a fantasy...nothing less.

Mary
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deusveritasest
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« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2010, 03:34:25 AM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jozef_Tiso

Poor Catholics under the Nazis.

Yes.  We do understand that there are no Orthodox Nazis, Communists, Fascists or murderers of any kind.

We know that no Orthodox believer has ever lied or broken a promise. 

We are painfully aware of the impeccability of Orthodox believers.

Mary
Wouldn't Fr. Ambrose argue that all EOs are Immaculately conceived?  laugh

Given as the doctrine states that Mary was born even without what we describe as ancestral sin, to suggest such would be simply foolish.
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mike
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« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2010, 03:36:12 AM »

Saying that Catholics under Tiso's Slovakia "suffered" is a meanness, nothing more.

To say they did not is a fantasy...nothing less.

Mary

Could you give any proofs that Roman Catholics were discriminated in Tito's Slovakia? Any.
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« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2010, 11:23:59 AM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jozef_Tiso

Poor Catholics under the Nazis.

Yes.  We do understand that there are no Orthodox Nazis, Communists, Fascists or murderers of any kind.

We know that no Orthodox believer has ever lied or broken a promise. 

We are painfully aware of the impeccability of Orthodox believers.

Mary
Wouldn't Fr. Ambrose argue that all EOs are Immaculately conceived?  laugh

Given as the doctrine states that Mary was born even without what we describe as ancestral sin, to suggest such would be simply foolish.

Not all of you. I've seen you debate this issue with others on this forum. Some others here seem to argue that it is a case of innocent people being born in a corrupted world.
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deusveritasest
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« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2010, 09:22:34 PM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jozef_Tiso

Poor Catholics under the Nazis.

Yes.  We do understand that there are no Orthodox Nazis, Communists, Fascists or murderers of any kind.

We know that no Orthodox believer has ever lied or broken a promise. 

We are painfully aware of the impeccability of Orthodox believers.

Mary
Wouldn't Fr. Ambrose argue that all EOs are Immaculately conceived?  laugh

Given as the doctrine states that Mary was born even without what we describe as ancestral sin, to suggest such would be simply foolish.

Not all of you. I've seen you debate this issue with others on this forum. Some others here seem to argue that it is a case of innocent people being born in a corrupted world.

Ah...

Please don't misinterpret what I have to say about that doctrine.

I would say that those conceived with the ancestral curse are initially innocent. Innocent to me means not guilty: not bearing moral guilt. And I don't believe that the ancestral curse involves moral guilt. The issue is moreso holiness: whether we have a whole relationship with God. So I would say it is a matter of innocent people being born lacking holiness because their relationship with God is broken because of the sins of their ancestors.

But, with that clarification, I recognize your point that there are many who do not even recognize that the ancestral curse involves a lack of holiness.
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synLeszka
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« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2010, 10:10:39 AM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jozef_Tiso

Poor Catholics under the Nazis.
This is a dialectic reductio ad absurdum (zrównanie z głupotą).. Instead of keeping on topic, you reduce it to an absurd.
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« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2010, 03:32:29 PM »

Geting back on topic, thanks for the link.  I'm a great admirer of Archbishop Chaput. Why is he not a Cardinal yet!?!
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PeterTheAleut
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« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2010, 03:34:25 PM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jozef_Tiso

Poor Catholics under the Nazis.
This is a dialectic reductio ad absurdum (zrównanie z głupotą).. Instead of keeping on topic, you reduce it to an absurd.
Come to think of it, this would probably qualify as a specific type of the reductio ad absurdum known as reductio ad nazium.  Godwin's Law proven yet again. Grin
« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 03:35:14 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
CoptoGeek
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« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2010, 03:44:34 PM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jozef_Tiso

Poor Catholics under the Nazis.
This is a dialectic reductio ad absurdum (zrównanie z głupotą).. Instead of keeping on topic, you reduce it to an absurd.
Come to think of it, this would probably qualify as a specific type of the reductio ad absurdum known as reductio ad nazium.  Godwin's Law proven yet again. Grin


Godwin's Law, had to look that up... PURE GENIUS!  Smiley
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"Be oppressed, rather than the oppressor. Be gentle, rather than zealous. Lay hold of goodness, rather than justice." -St. Isaac of Nineveh

“I returned to the Coptic Orthodox Church with affection, finding in her our tormented and broken history“. -Salama Moussa
elijahmaria
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« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2010, 04:19:29 PM »

Geting back on topic, thanks for the link.  I'm a great admirer of Archbishop Chaput. Why is he not a Cardinal yet!?!

I am too!  You might guess. 

I honestly do not know why he has not received his pretty red socks.  I keep hoping.  He may have been offered and either refused or delayed it.  I think he would rather be an ordinary than an extra-ordinary.  I get the distinct impression, from his behavior and facial expressions at the Bishop's Conflab in Dallas about the sex scandal at the turn of this century, that Church politics makes him slightly sea-sick.

M.
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« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2010, 01:22:44 PM »

Well the Archdiocese of Denver is not a very important see and is rather small at 373,000 faithful. His immediate predecessor, Cardinal Stafford, left to join the Roman Curia and was made a cardinal then. The same will happen to the outstanding Archbishop Burke of St. Louis, who is often compared to Archbishop Chaput in his outspokenness.
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