Author Topic: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox  (Read 14646 times)

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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2010, 10:49:55 AM »
Many years!

Given his background, would he be involved at all with the WRO movement under the Patriarchate of Moscow?
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Offline filipinopilgrim

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2010, 10:59:21 AM »
Many years!

Given his background, would he be involved at all with the WRO movement under the Patriarchate of Moscow?

So far as I know, he's been Byzantine-Rite for decades. He was a monk of Chevetogne from the early 1960's until he became a hermit in 1980.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2010, 11:23:12 AM »
Many years!

Given his background, would he be involved at all with the WRO movement under the Patriarchate of Moscow?

So far as I know, he's been Byzantine-Rite for decades. He was a monk of Chevetogne from the early 1960's until he became a hermit in 1980.
A Benedictine?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
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Offline tuesdayschild

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2010, 11:26:55 AM »
Many years!

Given his background, would he be involved at all with the WRO movement under the Patriarchate of Moscow?

So far as I know, he's been Byzantine-Rite for decades. He was a monk of Chevetogne from the early 1960's until he became a hermit in 1980.
A Benedictine?

One example of Byzantine Rite Benedictines: http://www.benedictinebyzantine.org/

Offline elijahmaria

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2010, 11:51:12 AM »
Fr. Gabriel Bunge OSB, a renowned Benedictine hermit and master of Patristic thought, was received into the Russian Orthodox Church a few days ago.

Praise God!!  Another Lev Gillet.

Offline Jetavan

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2010, 12:12:02 PM »
Many years!

Given his background, would he be involved at all with the WRO movement under the Patriarchate of Moscow?

So far as I know, he's been Byzantine-Rite for decades. He was a monk of Chevetogne from the early 1960's until he became a hermit in 1980.
A Benedictine?

One example of Byzantine Rite Benedictines: http://www.benedictinebyzantine.org/
With a monastery for sale!
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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Offline mike

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Offline Papist

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2010, 02:03:13 PM »
Fr. Gabriel Bunge OSB, a renowned Benedictine hermit and master of Patristic thought, was received into the Russian Orthodox Church a few days ago.

Praise God!!  Another Lev Gillet.
I am confused by your response. I know you are Catholic, so how do you view this as a good thing?
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline augustin717

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2010, 02:20:26 PM »
He was received by vesting, as it seems.

Offline Michał

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2010, 02:58:44 PM »
Many years!

Given his background, would he be involved at all with the WRO movement under the Patriarchate of Moscow?

So far as I know, he's been Byzantine-Rite for decades. He was a monk of Chevetogne from the early 1960's until he became a hermit in 1980.
A Benedictine?

One example of Byzantine Rite Benedictines: http://www.benedictinebyzantine.org/
With a monastery for sale!

I'm not surprised at all.

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2010, 03:29:05 PM »
I'm not surprised at all.

Why is that?

Offline ICXCNIKA

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2010, 03:37:03 PM »
He was received by vesting, as it seems.

Your point?

Offline Michał

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2010, 03:49:56 PM »
I'm not surprised at all.

Why is that?

They named the reason why they are selling the monastery: "Our numbers are diminishing and we have not received any new candidates for some time". Why would anyone be interested in joining a monastic community in which even the prioress doesn't care about wearing a habit?




Offline Jetavan

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2010, 03:52:17 PM »
I'm not surprised at all.

Why is that?

They named the reason why they are selling the monastery: "Our numbers are diminishing and we have not received any new candidates for some time". Why would anyone be interested in joining a monastic community in which even the prioress doesn't care about wearing a habit?
I thought you were going to mention something about Byzantine Catholics not being supported or 'advertised' enough in the American Catholic Church.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2010, 12:43:11 AM »
Fr. Gabriel Bunge OSB, a renowned Benedictine hermit and master of Patristic thought, was received into the Russian Orthodox Church a few days ago.

Praise God!!  Another Lev Gillet.

When will the Holy Father follow suit?

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2010, 01:27:21 AM »
Fr. Gabriel Bunge OSB, a renowned Benedictine hermit and master of Patristic thought, was received into the Russian Orthodox Church a few days ago.

Praise God!!  Another Lev Gillet.
I am confused by your response. I know you are Catholic, so how do you view this as a good thing?

I was wondering the same thing.
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2010, 06:07:57 PM »
Many years!

Given his background, would he be involved at all with the WRO movement under the Patriarchate of Moscow?

So far as I know, he's been Byzantine-Rite for decades. He was a monk of Chevetogne from the early 1960's until he became a hermit in 1980.
A Benedictine?

One example of Byzantine Rite Benedictines: http://www.benedictinebyzantine.org/
With a monastery for sale!

The nuns are too old and too few to maintain the upkeep of the monastery and have moved to the local parish's senior living home.  Metropolitan Jonah toured the facility for possible purchase.
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2010, 12:17:52 AM »
Father Gabriel at his hermitage in the Swiss mountains...





Offline ICXCNIKA

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2010, 01:36:42 AM »
Praise God that Fr Gabriel has found his way home.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 01:38:28 AM by ICXCNIKA »

Offline stashko

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2010, 02:02:50 AM »
Lord Grant thy servant Fr.Gabriel many many more years, to do thy work in thy vineyard...... Amen Amen
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 02:18:50 AM by stashko »
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline Alpo

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2010, 03:26:11 AM »
Father Gabriel at his hermitage in the Swiss mountains...

So he was blessed to continue his life as hermit? Does he still follow the rule of St. Benedict?

Offline Papist

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2010, 01:14:26 PM »
Father Gabriel at his hermitage in the Swiss mountains...





:(
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline stashko

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2010, 04:10:27 PM »
Father Gabriel at his hermitage in the Swiss mountains...





:(


In the picture is that a Monsterrance by the Holy Gospel.. for Host veneration worship,,Or is it a Tabernacle of some sort.... ???
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2010, 07:57:14 PM »
Father Gabriel at his hermitage in the Swiss mountains...




In the picture is that a Monsterrance by the Holy Gospel.. for Host veneration worship,,Or is it a Tabernacle of some sort.... ???

I enlarged the picture and it seems to be a Greek thing like a candlestick, except you put a vigil glass on the top of it.

Offline stashko

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2010, 09:38:24 PM »
Father Gabriel at his hermitage in the Swiss mountains...




In the picture is that a Monsterrance by the Holy Gospel.. for Host veneration worship,,Or is it a Tabernacle of some sort.... ???

I enlarged the picture and it seems to be a Greek thing like a candlestick, except you put a vigil glass on the top of it.

Thank's Father.............
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline elijahmaria

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2010, 01:50:34 AM »
Father Gabriel at his hermitage in the Swiss mountains...




In the picture is that a Monsterrance by the Holy Gospel.. for Host veneration worship,,Or is it a Tabernacle of some sort.... ???

I enlarged the picture and it seems to be a Greek thing like a candlestick, except you put a vigil glass on the top of it.

Could be a reliquary or an ostensoria.

Offline elijahmaria

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2010, 02:06:10 AM »
Father Gabriel at his hermitage in the Swiss mountains...





:(


In the picture is that a Monsterrance by the Holy Gospel.. for Host veneration worship,,Or is it a Tabernacle of some sort.... ???

What an unpleasant manner of calling us cookie-worshippers!!

Catholics worship the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ.   Please keep that in mind when tempted to such Chick-inaneries.

And as I said earlier Father Gabriel is another Father Lev and Father George.

Only someone like Archbishop Hilarion is capable of welcoming him wholeheartedly as he is.

Yes.  That is a monstrance for a small home chapel.

Mary

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2010, 04:15:11 AM »

Yes.  That is a monstrance for a small home chapel.

I am not sure, Mary, if you take it and enlarge it it doesn't look like a monstrance.  It looks likes one of the single candlestands or oil-lamp stands which Greeks have on their altars and which function as a kind of sanctuary lamp.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2010, 04:15:32 AM by Irish Hermit »

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2010, 05:32:17 AM »

And as I said earlier Father Gabriel is another Father Lev and Father George.


It would be interesting to know why you think that...

Why is he different to the France Cistercian patristic scholar Fr Placide Deseille and his 6 bothers monks who were received into Orthodoxy?


Here is the delightful little place built by Fr Placide in the Rhone valley and dedicated to Saint Anthony the Great.

Monastery of Saint Anthony the Great
France, Ecumenical Patriarchate


Offline elijahmaria

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2010, 11:08:02 AM »

And as I said earlier Father Gabriel is another Father Lev and Father George.


It would be interesting to know why you think that...

Why is he different to the France Cistercian patristic scholar Fr Placide Deseille and his 6 bothers monks who were received into Orthodoxy?


Here is the delightful little place built by Fr Placide in the Rhone valley and dedicated to Saint Anthony the Great.

Monastery of Saint Anthony the Great
France, Ecumenical Patriarchate



When he leaves a bitter legacy like that of Placide, then I will withdraw my comment, but given his writings to date, I don't expect to have to withdraw much of my understanding of the monk at all.

You have a spiritual master in your midst but I doubt that he repudiated any Catholic so-called heresies in his entry into Orthodoxy aside from breaking communion with the Pope of Rome.

That last part is what I regret was necessary and I expect he will come to a time when he regrets it as well...though most likely not in this life...

I hope he is a better emissary for his baptismal confession than most.

Mary


Offline Punch

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2010, 11:14:08 AM »

Yes.  That is a monstrance for a small home chapel.

I am not sure, Mary, if you take it and enlarge it it doesn't look like a monstrance.  It looks likes one of the single candlestands or oil-lamp stands which Greeks have on their altars and which function as a kind of sanctuary lamp.

I am inclined to agree.  It looks like it has a holder for a lamp, but the lamp is missing.  I did not see a chamber for the Host, but rather something that looks like ornamentation. 
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2010, 11:35:20 AM »

That last part is what I regret was necessary and I expect he will come to a time when he regrets it as well...though most likely not in this life...


Are you saying that Fr Gabriel will find himself in the fires of hell in the next life?

Offline elijahmaria

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2010, 12:16:35 PM »

That last part is what I regret was necessary and I expect he will come to a time when he regrets it as well...though most likely not in this life...


Are you saying that Fr Gabriel will find himself in the fires of hell in the next life?

 :laugh:  Why?  All I need to do is set back and let you put those words in my mouth!!   :laugh:

Offline elijahmaria

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2010, 12:16:35 PM »

Yes.  That is a monstrance for a small home chapel.

I am not sure, Mary, if you take it and enlarge it it doesn't look like a monstrance.  It looks likes one of the single candlestands or oil-lamp stands which Greeks have on their altars and which function as a kind of sanctuary lamp.

You may be right about that.  It also looks like reliquaries that I've seen or ostensories with a pronged top to hold a vigil lamp.  If it is an ostensory...there could be worse things to find there.  I think you might agree with me on that.  It is a beautifully appointed chapel nonetheless.  I am tempted to envy...heh!!  The difference between the Golden Benedictines and the Wooden Carmelites... :)

Mary

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #35 on: September 03, 2010, 03:23:04 AM »

That last part is what I regret was necessary and I expect he will come to a time when he regrets it as well...though most likely not in this life...


Are you saying that Fr Gabriel will find himself in the fires of hell in the next life?

We will all be judged according to our deeds at the Final Judgment. I am sure that even some of those who will be counted among the sheep will nonetheless be shown their sins and will sorrow over them.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2010, 03:33:49 AM »
The tangent on papal infallibility has been split off and moved to Orthodox-Catholic Discussion.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,29681.0.html
« Last Edit: September 03, 2010, 03:38:17 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #37 on: September 19, 2010, 04:22:50 PM »
It would be far more interesting story if a Roman Catholic, and not a Byzantine one became Orthodox.  With the Eastern Catholics, there is at present a tendency to de latinize themselves to the point where they all think and believe as Orthodox do, but still place themselves under Vatican jurisdiction.  Therefore a step from EC to EO would not be a difficult one to make.  However if you had an RC priest who had either limited or no contacts with Orthodoxy and Eastern spirituality choosing to convert to the OC out of study or reflection, then that would be more newsworthy.
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2010, 04:38:04 PM »
However if you had an RC priest who had either limited or no contacts with Orthodoxy and Eastern spirituality choosing to convert to the OC out of study or reflection, then that would be more newsworthy.

I think this is rather weird scenario. Why would an RC priest convert to Orthodoxy without being first involved in Catholic Byzantine churches? I mean, if a Catholic is interested in Eastern theology and spirituality a natural step would be trying to contact Byzantine Catholic parishes etc. and not the Orthodox ones.

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2010, 08:39:05 AM »
Something rather insightful from Fr Gabriel's book called "Dragon's Wine and Angel's Bread."
Pages 72-74, SVSP [St. Vladimir's Seminar Press], 2009

Father Bunge: The demons, then, are opposed not only to the virutes in that they tempt us to their contrary vices but also in the domain of theology to the dogmatic teachings of the Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Monk Evagrius: In this way wherein I have walked they hid for me a snare:  Our enemies lay a trap in all the virtues.  In courage they conceal the snares of cowardice; in prudence, those of fornication;  in love they lay the snares of hatred.  Into meekness, they instill arrogance;  into compassion, a mercifulness not for  God's sake but for the sake of the onlooker...And indeed what must one still say about contemplation and how many snares the ehemies have laid through heresies against Orthodox teaching.

Father Bunge: Heresies are therefore not mere dogmatic errors, comparable to scientific errors, but rather the work of demons in the heads of those who hatch them or fall to them.  Evagrius assures us that he has even experienced this in his own life.

Only those whose spirit has been previously blinded by the demon of anger and who have incurred the loss of the divine light of knowledge are susceptible to such demonic blindings...As we have seen above, the demonic thought blinds the soul's left eye, which is devoted to the contemplation of the created...Evagrius' notion is still thought provoking:  That moral defects, without fail, have consequences in the domain of knowledge and spiritual contemplation; and conversely that every kind of heresy is not simply an intellectual failure, but a work of the demons in the ones they have previously blinded through the vice of anger.

How different church history would look, had all those involved in dogmatic disputes taken greater care to beware the signs of anger.  And not only then, when with supposedly holy zeal, they took to the field against alleged or actual false teachings but also in all those conflicts that have led to divisions within the Church.  Evagrius is convinced that the schisms of Church history as well are nothing else than the work of demons, and above all the demon of anger.

Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #40 on: October 25, 2010, 08:42:26 AM »
Fr. Gabriel Bunge OSB, a renowned Benedictine hermit and master of Patristic thought, was received into the Russian Orthodox Church a few days ago.

Praise God!!  Another Lev Gillet.

When will the Holy Father follow suit?

Any day now... ;D

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2011, 06:59:01 PM »
Father Gabriel (Bunge) “Orthodoxy is the Fruit of My Whole Life as a Christian and a Monk”

Jan 25, 2011

Go to

http://www.pravmir.com/article_1220.html



Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2011, 07:01:53 PM »
A Catholic hermit converted to Orthodoxy

A well-known theologian, hieromonk Gabriel Bunge, rarely gives interviews. He leads a hermit's life in a small skete in Switzerland, never uses the Internet, and the only means of communication with him is the telephone. The latter works as the answering machine in a distant room. If you want to talk with him, you have to leave a message with the time when you are going to phone again, and if Father Gabriel is ready to talk, he will be near the telephone at the time you specified. We were lucky not to go through this complex operation because we met Father Gabriel in Moscow. On August 27, he converted to Orthodoxy from Catholicism.

http://www.pravmir.com/article_1221.html



Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2011, 08:02:37 PM »
He was received by vesting, as it seems.

I.e. he was not administered any of the following three Sacraments: Baptism, Chrismation, or Holy Orders?
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Catholic theologian turns Russian Orthodox
« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2011, 08:26:05 PM »
He was received by vesting, as it seems.

I.e. he was not administered any of the following three Sacraments: Baptism, Chrismation, or Holy Orders?
No. By vesting and confession of faith, within his rank, of course. It was probably an pre-agreed arrangement.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 08:27:11 PM by augustin717 »