This is where the conversation left off:
Scripture says those who truly believe in Christ NOW will NEVER be put to shame, therefore if you believe its possible you will be put to shame, it follows you do not truly believe NOW.
For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." (Rom 10:11 NKJ)
I happened upon Salvation In the Orthodox Concept By His Holiness Pope Shenouda III
http://www.suscopts.org/stgeorgetampa/salvation_in_the_orthodox_1.html
The first text he cites is clearly inconsistent with Paul's meaning:
St. Paul sates, “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” Philippians 2:12
Paul did NOT say "work FOR your salvation," he said "WORK OUT," that is a big difference.
To illustrate the difference, You "work for food" but NOT "work out food." One can "work out their own diet" by living in accordance with it.
Paul is using "Salvation" ethically, not soteriologically. Believers already saved are WORKING OUT the salvation God has graciously given them, in the community, with fear and trembling. They are to live consistent with their profession, work out the teachings of Christ, before all, knowing they are unworthy to be so blessed by God.
Paul goes on to completely contradict His Holiness Pope Shenouda III:
for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. (Phi 2:13 NKJ)
So they cannot be working FOR salvation when its God who works in them to both the will and do His good pleasure, they must be WORKING OUT, letting the will of God be done through them, in full realization of our unworthiness to be so highly honored by God.
for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. (Phi 2:13 NKJ)
Context proves this, the verse begins with "So then," pointing to Christ's example of Holy Living, "just as you have always obeyed in my presence, obey in my absence, live holy lives in the community working out your great salvation before the eyes of all the people:
Peter said the same thing, using different words:
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
(2Pe 1:10-11 KJV)
We make our calling and election sure, i.e., establish the fact God has called and elected us, when we can be known by our fruits He is our Father. THEN we will never fail, and our entrance into the everlasting Kingdom of Christ will be glorious...We will be rewarded for our faithfulness, with a glorious entrance into the Kingdom, perhaps a heavenly announcement of our names to everyone gathered!
"See how a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone." - James 2:24
Your perspective is wrong, a man's works justifies his claim he is a Christian, by his works, and not by his profession only. Then James lists examples:
18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe-- and tremble!
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God.
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
(Jam 2:18-1 NKJ)
James is arguing with a Jew (1:1) who believes he has caught James in a logical inconsistency. James says we are under a law of liberty, salvation by grace through faith, and not by works, "You have faith." BUT James also says faith without works accomplishes nothing for anyone, not the community at large, or the "believer", it is completely dead:
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
(Jam 2:14-17 NKJ)
Just as a dead body lacks animating spirit, so also faith without works is a dead faith, not the "living faith" that is able to save.
He is not saying works can animate the corpse, he is saying "if there is no light radiating from the light bulb, there is no electricity in it."
Regardless of the profession, we can know them by their fruits.
The logical inconsistency? As James cannot prove "saving faith" exists without works, saving faith cannot exist without works...and the Jew is arguing for works of law, not works of charity.
18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works [of law]."
Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.When you show me your "saving faith" exists by its effects, my argument faith must have works is proved."
It is clear from your showing me your faith by your works, that faith without works does not exist.
This is rabbinic argumentation, the premises are in the symbols. James' rebuttal is two fold:
You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe-- and tremble! (Jam 2:19 NKJ)
1)Orthodox belief alone cannot save, the belief in Orthodox Monotheism does not save them.
2)Faith can exist without works, Demons have no works according to their faith, yet their faith in Him is so strong they tremble.
Then James returns to his thesis, Christian faith without works of charity indicates the person has a dead faith, and a dead faith cannot save:
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? (Jam 2:20 NKJ)
He therefore is foolish arguing intellectual assent to a particular truth can save...it cannot. One must radiate works of love to their fellow man, otherwise they do not have the "saving faith" of Christ. Their faith is a counterfeit that cannot save.
Then James shows how a good tree is known by its fruits, these were "declared righteous" (ἐδικαιώθη)(by observers) by their works, that they had saving faith is proved by their righteous acts of faith:
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God.
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
(Jam 2:20-26 NKJ)
God's divine plan for faith is "completed, perfected" when the faith He implants in a believer, radiates the works God ordained he do in the community:
for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. (Phi 2:13 NKJ)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Eph 2:8-10 KJV)
Our divinely implanted faith is perfected in our realm of existence, when its works are manifest to the community.
The last verse proves this is James' intention, just as a body without spirit is dead, so also faith without works is a dead faith unable to save, a counterfeit the children of the devil have...while they persecute real believers.
