Author Topic: No Tabernacle?  (Read 1303 times)

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Offline Rosehip

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No Tabernacle?
« on: August 21, 2010, 03:58:38 PM »
I was attending a different Orthodox jurisdiction than my own, and it suddenly hit me that there doesn't appear to be a Tabernacle on the Altar as I am accustomed to seeing at my own parish. How could this be? Am I missing something-or do some parishes not have Tabernacles or is it in a different location, or of such a completely different style that I am simply not noticing it?
+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +

Offline theistgal

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Re: No Tabernacle?
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2010, 05:45:22 PM »
Rosehip, I would guess it's in a different style.  But another possibility is maybe it's been tempoarily removed for some reason (repair?) and you just happened to see the altar during the short time it wasn't there.  Like you, I'd be very surprised to see any Orthodox (or EC for that matter) church without a tabernacle on the altar.
"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)

Offline Rosehip

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Re: No Tabernacle?
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2010, 06:50:29 PM »
Oh, thanks, theistgal, I'm sure you're right. I realize it's a bit of a silly question, but I always felt weirdly comforted/focused by looking through the Royal Gates at the Tabernacle on the altar. Ours is quite lovely. It took me awhile to realize that this other church didn't seem to have one, though. It was almost like those mind games with two different pics and you have to find the subtle differences...lol.
+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +

Offline theistgal

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Re: No Tabernacle?
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2010, 06:56:15 PM »
We have a beautiful tabernacle in our (EC) church which my husband (a machinist) was asked to repair ... while it was in his shop an older,  smaller tabernacle was used as a replacement.  It was harder to see from the pews and some people thought there was no tabernacle and expressed concerns .  So I'd say just assume the best: it was there somewhere!  :)
"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)

Offline Ian Lazarus

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Re: No Tabernacle?
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2010, 07:10:24 PM »
From my experience, the tabernacle is always on the altar. But I've been told that some of the churches have no tabernacle, as all of the Body and Blood are consumed that day, and are made afresh every liturgy.  Now I've never seen this in an Orthodox Church, but in some Catholic and Anglican parishes, the sacrament is moved to the side. The purpose if which I assume is to free up movement. Bur ti make one have to , if you will excuse the phrase, "Find the Jesus". It is because the alter has been changed from the centerpoint back to foreward.
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Offline Orthodox11

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Re: No Tabernacle?
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2010, 07:49:19 PM »
We have a tabernacle on the altar in my parish, but for security reasons (the church isn't in the safest of neighbourhoods, and a big shiny gold tabernacle in the centre of the altar is probably the first thing that would be taken) the Communion reserved for the sick, or for the Presanctified during Lent, is usually kept in a less obvious place inside the sanctuary.

Offline Rosehip

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Re: No Tabernacle?
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2010, 08:58:55 PM »
We have a tabernacle on the altar in my parish, but for security reasons (the church isn't in the safest of neighbourhoods, and a big shiny gold tabernacle in the centre of the altar is probably the first thing that would be taken) the Communion reserved for the sick, or for the Presanctified during Lent, is usually kept in a less obvious place inside the sanctuary.

Hmmm...very interesting...
+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +

Offline mike

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Re: No Tabernacle?
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2010, 04:17:28 AM »
Sometimes there are no tabernacles in Chapels that are not used regularly. For example in Patriarchal Center in Chambesy there is not one.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: No Tabernacle?
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2010, 08:45:05 AM »
We have a tabernacle on the altar in my parish, but for security reasons (the church isn't in the safest of neighbourhoods, and a big shiny gold tabernacle in the centre of the altar is probably the first thing that would be taken) the Communion reserved for the sick, or for the Presanctified during Lent, is usually kept in a less obvious place inside the sanctuary.

Ours is a plain wooden one that dates IIRC from when the parish was still protestant.  Father Pat won't have anything but a service in the Church unless he removes or covers it.

We have had several break-ins and our relics stolen (they were in golden cases).  The tabernacle has never been taken.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: No Tabernacle?
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2010, 08:46:16 AM »
Sometimes there are no tabernacles in Chapels that are not used regularly. For example in Patriarchal Center in Chambesy there is not one.
Why isn't the Patriarchal Center at Chambesy not used regularly?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
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if you spit on it, it will be put out;
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Offline mike

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Re: No Tabernacle?
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2010, 08:51:05 AM »
Sometimes there are no tabernacles in Chapels that are not used regularly. For example in Patriarchal Center in Chambesy there is not one.
Why isn't the Patriarchal Center at Chambesy not used regularly?

IDK whether it's Chapel is used frequently or not. All I know is that there is no tabernacle.

Offline pensateomnia

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Re: No Tabernacle?
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2010, 09:21:15 AM »
Why isn't the Patriarchal Center at Chambesy not used regularly?

It's used whenever there is a conference. Worship and meetings of bishops happen in it.

My guess, however, is that it may not have a tabernacle simply because it has no regular congregation. Thus, there is no Liturgy on Holy Thursday, during which to set aside the reserve sacrament, and, of course, no pastoral need to have reserve sacrament available for Pre-Sanctified or the sick. The Center's few staff members serve at area parishes, which are the proper places for sacramental activity anyway (cf. those canons of Chalcedon and Trullo that restrict the sacraments celebrated at oratories/chapels).
« Last Edit: August 25, 2010, 09:21:38 AM by pensateomnia »
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: No Tabernacle?
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2010, 09:33:03 AM »
Why isn't the Patriarchal Center at Chambesy not used regularly?

It's used whenever there is a conference. Worship and meetings of bishops happen in it.

My guess, however, is that it may not have a tabernacle simply because it has no regular congregation. Thus, there is no Liturgy on Holy Thursday, during which to set aside the reserve sacrament, and, of course, no pastoral need to have reserve sacrament available for Pre-Sanctified or the sick. The Center's few staff members serve at area parishes, which are the proper places for sacramental activity anyway (cf. those canons of Chalcedon and Trullo that restrict the sacraments celebrated at oratories/chapels).
So there are area parishes.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: No Tabernacle?
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2010, 10:06:03 AM »
We have had several break-ins and our relics stolen (they were in golden cases).

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Offline pensateomnia

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Re: No Tabernacle?
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2010, 10:25:52 AM »
So there are area parishes.

Yes. At which there are daily services.

Also, I checked the web site, and it turns out that the first French-speaking Orthodox church in Geneva was started at the Center itself in the 1970s, and that congregation continues to hold services in a church that was built in a catacomb underneath the Center's regular chapel. So, the tabernacle itself, a very simple one, is in the crypt underneath, which is the main site for the parish's services.

But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)

Offline monkvasyl

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Re: No Tabernacle?
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2010, 01:27:52 PM »
I've seen photos of some tabernacles in the shape of a dove that is suspended over the altar.
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Offline theistgal

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Re: No Tabernacle?
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2010, 02:17:04 PM »
monkvasyl, there was one like that at my RC parish in Kansas City when I was a kid, till it was "wreckovated" by a liberal bishop. :(
"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)

Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

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Re: No Tabernacle?
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2010, 07:14:48 PM »
We have a tabernacle on the altar in my parish, but for security reasons (the church isn't in the safest of neighbourhoods, and a big shiny gold tabernacle in the centre of the altar is probably the first thing that would be taken) the Communion reserved for the sick, or for the Presanctified during Lent, is usually kept in a less obvious place inside the sanctuary.
it's the same situation in my Church.  we're the oldest Church in my town, and sadly, the oldest part of town is also the worst.  My priest doesn't even really like living in the rectory.  people (he says) jump over the Church's fence and drink and do drugs.  and you wouldn't believe the people we get stumbeling in at our lenten presanctified liturgies!  thankfully, the last time someone broke into the parish and desecrated the holy objects, tore the vestments, etc. was back in the 1980's.  (we have, though, had someone kick open the door to the hall and steal money from the parish bookstore.  we've gotten a stronger door, thank god!)