Author Topic: Orthodox church came to eastern  (Read 5285 times)

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Offline synLeszka

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Re: Orthodox church came to eastern
« Reply #45 on: August 29, 2010, 11:51:47 AM »
Bukovyna, which had the best Ukrainian schools and cultural-educational institutions of all regions in Ukraine before World War One.  The Ukrainian Orthodox were the majority, but the Ukrainian Greek Catholics had a deanery in Chernivsti (capital of today's Bukovyna oblast) which was subordinated to the Lviv archeparchy from 1811 and from 1885 to the Stanyslaviv eparchy.  There was a not insubstantial movement between Ukrainians from Galicia (Halychyna) to Bukovyna and visa-versa.  There were intermarriages between Ukrainian Catholics and Ukrainian Orthodox in Bukovyna.  Some times the parents would make agreements that if the child was a boy, Orthodox would be he, a girl Greek Catholic.  I personally know of such circumstances.

God Bless. 

As a digression. Russian Tsarist law stated that in case, the husband and wife were of a different faith, the sons would be raised in the faith of the father/husband and the daughters would be raised in the faith of the wife/mother, unless the two parties agreed otherwise.

Offline Orest

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Re: Orthodox church came to eastern
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2010, 12:12:22 PM »


As a digression. Russian Tsarist law stated that in case, the husband and wife were of a different faith, the sons would be raised in the faith of the father/husband and the daughters would be raised in the faith of the wife/mother, unless the two parties agreed otherwise.

Are you saying that there was a secular law applicable throughout the whole Russian Empire?  Can you please quote the number of the law and the date introduced into law?

I only know of (cited by others not in a book) a directive passed by the Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church applicable to the border areas (Ukrainians in Volynia) or areas of Poland that were part of the Russian Empire.

Offline synLeszka

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Re: Orthodox church came to eastern
« Reply #47 on: September 07, 2010, 10:44:42 AM »


As a digression. Russian Tsarist law stated that in case, the husband and wife were of a different faith, the sons would be raised in the faith of the father/husband and the daughters would be raised in the faith of the wife/mother, unless the two parties agreed otherwise.

Are you saying that there was a secular law applicable throughout the whole Russian Empire?  Can you please quote the number of the law and the date introduced into law?

I only know of (cited by others not in a book) a directive passed by the Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church applicable to the border areas (Ukrainians in Volynia) or areas of Poland that were part of the Russian Empire.

I have a textbook with texts of  historical legal documents translated into Polish. The heading of this dokument is "Prawo o małżeństwie" (1836 r.) "Marriage Law"The source of this is "ukaz cesarsko-królewski z dnia 16/28 marca 1836 r. Dziennik Praw Królestwa Polskiego(Congress Poland), t.XVIII, pages 47-297. I think if you type in Russian "ukaz from the 16/28 of March 1836 AD" you might find more data. I do not know if this was the law only for the Congressional state of Poland or for all the empire. After the fall of the uprising in 1831 AD, the legal sovereignty of Congress Poland(Królestwo Polskie) as a state in personal union with the Russian Empire was questioned and the Tsarist law was applied directly. I hope I can help.


Online ialmisry

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Re: Orthodox church came to eastern
« Reply #48 on: July 26, 2013, 11:15:50 AM »
Ever wonder why only 63 out of hundreds of priests signed the union?  Or why there were no bishops who signed?  Could it be because the Orthodox bishops were all in jail?  And, 63 out of how many hundreds of priest is hardly a majority.  What happened to the 'majority rules' concept if this was no a forced union?  My gradparents came from this union.  They, along with each generation that preceded them, taught their children that Orthodoxy was their true faith and they were to go back if and when they found themselves in a place WHERE THEY WERE ONCE AGAIN FREE TO PRACTICE THEIR ORTHODOX FAITH.  This is what they did along with thousands of others around the turn of the century.

That only 63 priests were there shows no one was forced to go.  There was only one Orthodox bishop involved, Bishop Basil Tarasovic, who had proclaimed his own union in 1642.  The Calvinist Prince Rakoczy refused to allow him to return to his see in Mukachevo and installed the Calvinizing priest John Jusko in his place.  To regain his see and facilitate future union, he renounced his own personal union.  He however nominated pro-union priest Peter Parthenius Petrovic as his successor before he died.  He was elected at a gathering of 400 priests, receiving 370 votes, (quite a majority) and was ordained bishop by the sympathetic Orthodox Metropoltain of Alba Iulia.  That however did not stop the Racoczys from appointing an Orthodox bishop, Joannicius Zejkan.

Which leads us to your oft cited claim the Greek Catholics were just Crypto-Orthodox waiting for a chance to be free.  If that were true the Greek Catholics would have simply gone to the Orthodox off the boat in America, which we know did not happen.
We also know that in the early years, they didn't know that the Orthodox were in America.  Once they found out, the ball started rolling.

Many just went over the border to Bukowina, where they made up the majority of the Orthodox by the end of the 19th century. Or across to the Russian Empire, where they played a central role in the recovery of the Kholm Land, now the heartland of the Polish Orthodox Church.
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Offline mike

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Re: Orthodox church came to eastern
« Reply #49 on: July 26, 2013, 03:10:24 PM »
the Kholm Land, now the heartland of the Polish Orthodox Church.

Not really.
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Offline jah777

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Re: Orthodox church came to eastern
« Reply #50 on: July 26, 2013, 03:14:02 PM »
Just goes to show that no one causes Christians more suffering than other Christians. :P

Nothing causes so much sorrow for the Church like false churches.

Online ialmisry

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Re: Orthodox church came to eastern
« Reply #51 on: July 26, 2013, 03:45:20 PM »
the Kholm Land, now the heartland of the Polish Orthodox Church.

Not really.
No, not the green? (compared to the POC dioceses?)
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 03:46:31 PM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline mike

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Re: Orthodox church came to eastern
« Reply #52 on: July 26, 2013, 03:52:43 PM »
Fixed that for you (more-less)
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

not everything I typed before [insert current date] may reflect my current views on the subject

Online ialmisry

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Re: Orthodox church came to eastern
« Reply #53 on: July 26, 2013, 04:28:45 PM »
Fixed that for you (more-less)
What's the circle?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline mike

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Re: Orthodox church came to eastern
« Reply #54 on: July 26, 2013, 04:33:31 PM »
Fixed that for you (more-less)
What's the circle?
"the heartland of the Polish Orthodox Church" more-less
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

not everything I typed before [insert current date] may reflect my current views on the subject

Offline theistgal

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Re: Orthodox church came to eastern
« Reply #55 on: July 26, 2013, 04:41:11 PM »
Just goes to show that no one causes Christians more suffering than other Christians. :P

Nothing causes so much sorrow for the Church like false churches.

Which must be destroyed at all costs? (and thanks for reminding me of what I wrote 3 years ago.  8) )
"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)

Online ialmisry

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Re: Orthodox church came to eastern
« Reply #56 on: July 26, 2013, 04:59:43 PM »
Fixed that for you (more-less)
What's the circle?
"the heartland of the Polish Orthodox Church" more-less
Does it have a name?  How did it win that distinction?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline mike

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Re: Orthodox church came to eastern
« Reply #57 on: July 26, 2013, 05:01:20 PM »
Fixed that for you (more-less)
What's the circle?
"the heartland of the Polish Orthodox Church" more-less
Does it have a name? 

Podlachia.

Quote
How did it win that distinction?

Largest population of Orthodox, concentration of parishes etc.
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

not everything I typed before [insert current date] may reflect my current views on the subject