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Author Topic: Interview with Abuna Yesehaq on Haile Selassie  (Read 4250 times) Average Rating: 0
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Enoch
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« on: August 14, 2010, 06:55:03 PM »

Here is an interview with Abuna Yesehaq on Haile Selassie

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfQgpujWdk8&feature=related
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI5eA67dN-o&feature=related
Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpRDtyPVgkg&feature=related
Part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnPZ1KTr1eU&feature=related

I hope this interview will lead you the the truth about Haile Selassie
King of Ethiopia.
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« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2010, 06:56:54 PM »

Here is an interview with Abuna Yesehaq on Haile Selassie

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfQgpujWdk8&feature=related
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI5eA67dN-o&feature=related
Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpRDtyPVgkg&feature=related
Part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnPZ1KTr1eU&feature=related

I hope this interview will lead you the the truth about Haile Selassie
King of Ethiopia.
What truth?
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« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2010, 07:00:56 PM »


I am expecting the answer from you after you watched the video.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2010, 07:01:41 PM by Enoch » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2010, 07:06:57 PM »


I am expecting the answer from you after you watched the video.
I'm not looking for any truth about the late emperor. What should I be looking for?
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« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2012, 01:17:57 AM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Selassie is very important, He is the vehicle for the Rastafarian community to really come to the Light, to come to the Church..

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2012, 06:39:48 PM »

Enoch, I have read your prior posts, and your distortions and heretical views are clear to me. you masquerade as Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo as many heretics today have a field day of doing so at their own peril. such heretical teachings you harbor are being taught by those who are the enemies of the Orthodox Faith whom the One Holy Apostolic Orthodox Church confesses. beware where you stand and whom you worship and WHY. The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church confesses the Risen Christ, and has no time or place for your kind of racial and ethnic garbage, if you come to the church do not come seeking racial identity, political and historical glory, do not come seeking social alliance, or historically fossilised glory that you might find fascinating, all these are meaningless and are like persuing the wind not to mention total heresy to the Faith of the Christian Martyrs who shunned the world and its ways. If you must come, Come and see the Risen Christ we adore and worship, the Church belongs to Christ who died for her, Her Bridegroom who will defend her, How Dare you attempt to pollute her purity, her orthodoxy by your false witness and testimony in Her Name. Return to God, return to the true faith, or if you continue in your false testimony which is a stumbling block of many know that all the anathemas of the Fathers is upon you, all the Curse of those who give false witness in the Name of the Holy Spirit is upon you, for your sake I hope you wake up from this nightmare you are in and Let Christ shine for you. Love Christ, Adore Christ, before all things,all alliances, all connections. beyond race, geographical boundaries, economic strata's, political or familial affiliations , even above your very soul. that is the Christian Faith. Hailesilase was a man, a christian man, an Orthodox Christian man. if you respect him and wish to imitate him in his faith, then know that he was no king worshipper or an idolater of race, and ethnicity. The Church will maintain the purity of her faith as she has done so for more than 2000 years now, and will not bow to any man's philosophy at any time. My brother I entreat you, you are in danger, but you are free to live whatever faith you chose to live by, but do not pretend to be an orthodox christian when obviously you confess something entirely different from the confession of the Orthodox Church, so Chose your path carefully, and I pray that you go out of the Rastafarian cult, and Glorify the Risen Christ and embrace the Faith of the Apostles in its fullness.

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« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2012, 12:00:57 AM »

Greeting in the name of Christ,

I am 100% with Hiwot. There is no more truth than HaileSellasie being a man. He may have contributed a lot for our country and for our world, but that just makes him a noble man... NOTHING MORE. Ethiopian Orthodox does not teach anything about HaileSellasie being other than man. Any teaching that puts him higher than that is heretic. May the Lord protect our church from false teachings and help us keep the true faith that our forefathers passed on to us!

Glory be unto God
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« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2012, 12:06:07 AM »

What is strange is that Abune Yesehaq actually says in the interview that Haille Selassie is not anything more than a man, and that the Church rejects belief that he is God.  Why would someone who worships HIM post these videos?
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« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2012, 03:07:30 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

What is strange is that Abune Yesehaq actually says in the interview that Haille Selassie is not anything more than a man, and that the Church rejects belief that he is God.  Why would someone who worships HIM post these videos?
Actually quite the opposite is exactly why I revived these videos, to point that out for folks who may have misconceptions.  However, also notice that Abune Yesehaq was more than cordial and is a part of the Rastafari community, part of Rastafari history, and we rightfully site the father as the Rastafarian Bishop, a title which he himself was quite fond of.  If y'all noticed in the videos, Abune Yesehaq mentions specifically how he was commissioned personally by HIM to go to the Rastafari communities and bring the Light of the Church to them.  Abune Yesehaq told Bob Marley what he told us all, the very same words identically which when quoted in my younger days brought me directly into my first Divine Liturgy in an Ethiopian Church.  He said, "Follow the Emperor."  The Emperor was in the Church every single morning of HIM blessed journey here on the earth, and when away traveling HIM brought both a tabot and priests for Holy Communion services on the go, just as the noble Emperors of Ethiopia's past have done in their Imperial camp on the move..  

This video is to legitimize Rastafari within the Church, so folks can know that folks like bro Gebre Menfes Kiddus and myself are not just making up the mutual interconnection, we have been invited in, as we are, who we are, and who we are becoming together.

By the way, no disRASpect to Enoch here, but the website and organization he is promoting here is neither affiliated in any way with the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church, neither is it is affiliated with the Ethiopian World Federation, which is the charter branch for all the major "mansions" of Rastafari, Houses including the Nyahbinghi Theocratic Order, the Bobo Congress, and the Twelve Tribes of Israel.  There are a lot of "rastas" out there, and much love and respect to them, but many of us are in fact card-carrying membership of these mansions, and we have structure, rules, and order which we follow, including a mutual respect and involvement within the Ethiopian Church since she was first commissioned to the Rastafari people in Trinidad in 1954.


stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: February 03, 2012, 03:07:56 PM by HabteSelassie » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2012, 04:20:30 PM »

"The Rastafarian Bishop"? I'm sorry, but that rubs me the wrong way. I'm new to this whole Orthodoxy thing, but as far as I've noticed we do not have bishops for particular music-based subcultures or Caribbean racialist pseudo-spiritualities. Nor should we. That is silly. The closest we could come to anything like that would be HG Bishop Moussa, the "Bishop of Youth Affairs", which I've noticed is not even a position all in the Coptic Church are comfortable with (since having bishops for abstractions is strange, as the argument goes).

God willing, Rastafari will never be legitimate within the Church. You can appreciate Rastafarian music or be inspired by Jamaican culture of what have you, but even in the short time I've been posting here I've seen this topic particular topic run into the ground over and over again. It is a non-starter. "Rastafarian Orthodoxy" isn't a thing. The only mansions you should concern yourself with being in are the mansions of the Father (John 14:2), and being in them is not a matter of having a certain opinion about or knowing a supposed "truth" about the former Ethiopian emperor. Enough nonsense.

We may imitate the emperor in terms of his personal piety, but the only Truth who will save us is Christ.
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« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2012, 04:37:11 PM »

I must say I am also perplexed. Why would someone who worships HIM post videos that state the contrary to their beliefs? Thats like me posting videos legitimizing papal infallibility.

PP
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« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2012, 09:18:36 PM »

I must say I am also perplexed. Why would someone who worships HIM post videos that state the contrary to their beliefs? Thats like me posting videos legitimizing papal infallibility.

PP

I prefer to post videos about how the Boy Scouts are run by Satan's son, to train him for when he'll eventually take over the reins of the Masons.
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« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2012, 09:28:05 PM »

"The Rastafarian Bishop"? I'm sorry, but that rubs me the wrong way. I'm new to this whole Orthodoxy thing, but as far as I've noticed we do not have bishops for particular music-based subcultures or Caribbean racialist pseudo-spiritualities. Nor should we. That is silly. The closest we could come to anything like that would be HG Bishop Moussa, the "Bishop of Youth Affairs", which I've noticed is not even a position all in the Coptic Church are comfortable with (since having bishops for abstractions is strange, as the argument goes).

God willing, Rastafari will never be legitimate within the Church. You can appreciate Rastafarian music or be inspired by Jamaican culture of what have you, but even in the short time I've been posting here I've seen this topic particular topic run into the ground over and over again. It is a non-starter. "Rastafarian Orthodoxy" isn't a thing. The only mansions you should concern yourself with being in are the mansions of the Father (John 14:2), and being in them is not a matter of having a certain opinion about or knowing a supposed "truth" about the former Ethiopian emperor. Enough nonsense.

We may imitate the emperor in terms of his personal piety, but the only Truth who will save us is Christ.

This owns. Thank you for this.
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« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2012, 09:43:38 PM »

His Grace Bishop Antonious Markos, Coptic bishop of African Missions, explaining how Haile Selassie rejected Rastafarian beliefs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdAPw_Q8O7E
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« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2012, 11:48:28 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

"The Rastafarian Bishop"? I'm sorry, but that rubs me the wrong way. I'm new to this whole Orthodoxy thing, but as far as I've noticed we do not have bishops for particular music-based subcultures or Caribbean racialist pseudo-spiritualities. Nor should we. That is silly. The closest we could come to anything like that would be HG Bishop Moussa, the "Bishop of Youth Affairs", which I've noticed is not even a position all in the Coptic Church are comfortable with (since having bishops for abstractions is strange, as the argument goes).

God willing, Rastafari will never be legitimate within the Church. You can appreciate Rastafarian music or be inspired by Jamaican culture of what have you, but even in the short time I've been posting here I've seen this topic particular topic run into the ground over and over again. It is a non-starter. "Rastafarian Orthodoxy" isn't a thing. The only mansions you should concern yourself with being in are the mansions of the Father (John 14:2), and being in them is not a matter of having a certain opinion about or knowing a supposed "truth" about the former Ethiopian emperor. Enough nonsense.

We may imitate the emperor in terms of his personal piety, but the only Truth who will save us is Christ.

I'm sorry that you seem to misunderstand our relationship with Abune Yesehaq, perhaps slowly you should watch those YouTube clips to briefly see the father's own words to explain these matters, but  Abune Yesehaq did indeed accept the title the Rastafarian Bishop, it is a friendly title which should not be taken out of context.  Abune Yesehaq is not a Rastafarian, however he was always friendly and receptive to the Rastafari community, and further, those who consider Abune Yesehaq to be the Rastafarian Bishop are those who have been baptized into the Church and are "seeing the Light" as Abune Yesehaq himself said.  Those Rastafari who are not adherents to the Orthodox traditions tend not to regard Bishops as anything, in fact many are vitriolically anti-Catholic and subsequently anti-Orthodox, there is most certainly a distinction.  Is Coptic the Church? Nonsense, Coptic is a sociocultural and ethnic term, a hyphenation of Christian.  Well Rastafari is the same, it is mine and many others sociocultural and yes, even racial identity, so please be kind not to disregard or disrespect by your own ideologies.. If there can be Coptic Christians, or Ethiopian Christians, or Russian Christians, or what have you, there can also be Rastafari Orthodox Christians.  Culture is culture, and we have ours, and you have yours, and the Church is universal, but universally accepts culture.

Further, you can disregard my culture all you like, but I do folks have to quit the Boy Scouts when they join the Church? What about their sports club? Political party? Oh right, there can be mutual memberships.  I am a member of the Twelve Tribes of Israel, a political organization dedicated around a vision of Africa for the Africans and the Liberation movement of the Rastafari Elders. Our liberation is a spiritual liberation from the demonic forces, and those of us who are Orthodox have learned it is through the Sacraments, through the Flesh and Blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ that we are liberated.  If the semantics of using terms like Rastafari or Rastafarian continue to upset you, I apologize, but you are misunderstanding their meanings.  Rastafari or Rastafarian simply means those associated with HIM Haile Selassie I, now as to who the Emperor is to each Rastafarian or Rastafari such is a diverse subject.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2012, 12:59:59 AM »

Is Coptic the Church? Nonsense, Coptic is a sociocultural and ethnic term, a hyphenation of Christian.  Well Rastafari is the same, it is mine and many others sociocultural and yes, even racial identity

What are you talking about? Coptic is not a hyphenation of Christian or anything else. It just means "Egyptian". And since when is "Rastafari" a racial identity of any kind?

Quote
so please be kind not to disregard or disrespect by your own ideologies..


What does this mean?

Quote
If there can be Coptic Christians, or Ethiopian Christians, or Russian Christians, or what have you, there can also be Rastafari Orthodox Christians.
 

Um...Coptic Christians are Egyptian Christians. Egypt is a place; you can locate it on a map. Russian Christians are Christians in Russia, which is another place you can locate on a map. "Rastafarian Orthodox Christians" apparently live on the internet, which is not a place you can locate on a map. So, no. No disrespect meant, just no.

Quote
Culture is culture, and we have ours, and you have yours, and the Church is universal, but universally accepts culture.

The Church is not a way station for anybody or any "culture" that might present itself there. The reality of the ethnic/national churches is a matter of history and geography, not some sort of open-door policy for any yahoo to come in and remake it in his image. So, no, I do not believe that the Church "universally accepts culture", as though we might come in with our baggage and leave it there to fester and create division among people because this guy likes a certain kind of music, but this other guy likes another kind, or this guy has a certain racial outlook, but this woman doesn't share it, or whatever. I'm constantly having to excuse myself from political discussions that take place after our Agape meal because I really do believe in this principle: You have your politics, I have mine, we're both in the Church, let's both knock it off. As this translates to the situation that you've described, I would say: You have your rastafarian thing and I'm not going to knock it as though it's the worst thing in the world to have a social conscience informed by Bob Marley and stupid-looking hair, but don't tell me to accept it when it messes with the doctrine and the unity of the Church. Leave it out. It doesn't belong there. All this Rastafarian stuff belongs on your turntable and shirts in the mall, not in the holy Orthodox Church of God. Or, as HH Pope Shenouda III has put it, "if it touches the religion or the doctrine, I become another person" (read: It is unacceptable to mess around with the faith)

We should hold ourselves and those around us in the church to no less a standard of personal commitment to solid Christian doctrine. That means none of this JAH RASTAFARI stuff.

Quote
Further, you can disregard my culture all you like, but I do folks have to quit the Boy Scouts when they join the Church? What about their sports club? Political party? Oh right, there can be mutual memberships.
 

If any of these things should cause you to serve two masters, then no, you can't have mutual memberships in them. For instance, if your scout troupe required you to believe that a mere emperor was God, or even blurred the lines between an emperor and God, then I don't care how good their cookies are, you can't be there.

Quote
I am a member of the Twelve Tribes of Israel, a political organization dedicated around a vision of Africa for the Africans and the Liberation movement of the Rastafari Elders.


I did a little web searching on these "Rastafari elders". It appears they are Jamaicans. I suppose it's a liberation from a distance, then?

Quote
Our liberation is a spiritual liberation from the demonic forces,


You know Who really liberates people from the demonic forces? Jesus Christ, the Son of the one God. Not some guy or group of guys in Jamaica, or some political organization built around them and their ideology.

Quote
and those of us who are Orthodox have learned it is through the Sacraments, through the Flesh and Blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ that we are liberated.
 

As opposed to learning it how or where? That's my entire point: The Orthodox Church is where it is. That's why there is no "Rastafarian Orthodox" anything, because that is an ideology from outside the Church, not in concert with the Apostles and the Fathers (so far as I have been taught of them by Orthodox people), who taught an entirely different liberation witnessed and passed down to them from the "liberator" Himself. "And as many as came to Him, to them He gave the power to become children of God." This whole conversation is like a weird rehash of my time in the RCC, and even weirder I find myself solidly on the side of the Roman Pope JP II, who met with the "liberators" and those deceived by them in Nicaragua and gave them the message: "regularize yourselves within the church", meaning, you can be on the side of the "liberators" if you want, but you cannot make Jesus Christ into a proto-Marxist. I think that's a pretty great lesson, really. It applies to liberation theologists in Latin America, you and all your Rasta friends, and pretty much anyone who would do that.

Quote
If the semantics of using terms like Rastafari or Rastafarian continue to upset you, I apologize, but you are misunderstanding their meanings.  Rastafari or Rastafarian simply means those associated with HIM Haile Selassie I, now as to who the Emperor is to each Rastafarian or Rastafari such is a diverse subject.

It's not the semantics, it's the wrongness. If semantics is relevant to discuss within the wider context of community agreement (and it is, hence all English speakers can look at a tree and say "hey, that's a tree", not because of its inherent "tree-ness" but because that's the name for that thing to all of them), then I must say I do not and cannot agree with this. Nothing that is all about any emperor will be acceptable to me. Even those churches within which emperors have been sainted do not build ideologies around them with separate cults where some people may believe that the emperor is god. In any church, that is taking it way too far.

Once again, it is not about disrespecting your culture for the heck of it, but the fact that it is unacceptable and contrary to Orthodox Christianity to be a Rastafarian. It's that simple. Go ahead and listen to the music all you want, but leave your "Jah Rastafari" business out of the church.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 01:00:18 AM by dzheremi » Logged

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« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2012, 01:17:39 AM »

dzheremi,

I personally don't understand the Rastafari culture, and I get it that you don't like it; However, it is my understanding that there are leaders within the Ethiopian Orthodox Church who have made an effort to evangelize that population, bring them into the Church, and save them.  I think that is what Habte is talking about. 

To just toss the Rastas aside and have nothing to do with them will not save them.   I think it is admirable that the Ethiopian Church has made an effort to bring them to the Faith, and to an extent has succeeded.  Not all Rastas worship HIM.  Many, such as Gebre and Habte, worship the Holy Trinity alone.  You don't want to paint all Rastas with the same brush.
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« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2012, 01:37:41 AM »

Salpy, the difference is in evangelizing a particular population (which I am for) versus setting up some different norm for that population by which they may keep the vestiges of their pre-Christian belief even as they contradict apostolic Christian teaching. Please note that I am not saying that Abouna Yesehaq has done that, but the way that Rastafarian Orthodoxy or "the Rastafarian church" is talked about here by some of its proponents is most definitely a cause for concern.

As a counterpoint, there is a legend that says that when Boniface, the apostle to the Germans, evangelized the Germanic pagans he saw that they were worshiping a tree. In order to drive home the point that this is NOT what we worship, he cut it down and forbid the worship of it. I would say that in so far as this Rastafarian stuff presents a similar stumbling block to the adoption of the true faith (by virtue of the fact that, as Habte admits when he talks about it as a racial identity and a religious ideology that permits a heretical view of Haile Selassie, it is not religiously neutral with regards to potential conflicts between it and the Gospel), it too ought to be "cut down" so as to allow those who come to the Church through it to emerge as truly committed witnesses for the Orthodox faith. In fact, I should like more Rastafarians to come into the Church, until they're all here and nobody ever again confuses the Orthodox Christian emperor of Ethiopia for anything other than an Orthodox Christian believer. But to my mind, you can't get there from here if here remains mired in various viewpoints that mess with the doctrine and practice of Orthodox Christianity.

As an example from my own life, my background is Roman Catholic and there was a great deal that I had to give up or take up (depending) in coming to the Orthodox Church. Allowances are made for me (thanks be to God) on the basis of my own weakness and infant-level understanding of the Church, but just the same if I were to confess the filioque in reciting the Creed, or push for the recognition of post-schism saints or uniquely Roman doctrines in the Church, I would rightly and sternly be told that this is not Orthodox Christianity, and if I want to be Orthodox I will have to abandon these aspects of my former faith-life. So we all must be formed, right? It's not about any dislike towards Rastas as people.
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« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2012, 01:45:39 AM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
dzheremi,

I personally don't understand the Rastafari culture, and I get it that you don't like it; However, it is my understanding that there are leaders within the Ethiopian Orthodox Church who have made an effort to evangelize that population, bring them into the Church, and save them.  I think that is what Habte is talking about. 

To just toss the Rastas aside and have nothing to do with them will not save them.   I think it is admirable that the Ethiopian Church has made an effort to bring them to the Faith, and to an extent has succeeded.  Not all Rastas worship HIM.  Many, such as Gebre and Habte, worship the Holy Trinity alone.  You don't want to paint all Rastas with the same brush.

Thank you Smiley




Quote
If there can be Coptic Christians, or Ethiopian Christians, or Russian Christians, or what have you, there can also be Rastafari Orthodox Christians.
 

Um...Coptic Christians are Egyptian Christians. Egypt is a place; you can locate it on a map. Russian Christians are Christians in Russia, which is another place you can locate on a map. "Rastafarian Orthodox Christians" apparently live on the internet, which is not a place you can locate on a map. So, no. No disrespect meant, just no.
On the map Rastafari culture is found in the Caribbean islands and in the United States as well as in the UK and much of Africa as well.  There are a dozen Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo parishes in the Caribbean and the only Ethiopians who live there are imported clergies, these are entirely Rastafarian parishes, just as in Egypt there are Coptic parishes Wink  Again, Rastafari is our culture, please stop being so dismissive, its not polite.

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social conscience informed by Bob Marley and stupid-looking hair



Excuse me sir, but you have no right so over the top and intentionally rude and disrespectful. This conversation is over Sad

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2012, 02:05:45 AM »

(Stereotypical markers of) identity politics of that sort are grounds for silliness because they are silly. I should know. I was involved in the "punk rock" scene from about the ages of 13 to 20. That's the funniest thing ever to anyone who knows me now. Would "silly-looking hair" restart this conversation on a topic that has outlived any usefulness anyway? Huh

Ah well. Unsubscribing.
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« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2012, 02:15:57 AM »

dzheremi,

I personally don't understand the Rastafari culture, and I get it that you don't like it; However, it is my understanding that there are leaders within the Ethiopian Orthodox Church who have made an effort to evangelize that population, bring them into the Church, and save them.  I think that is what Habte is talking about. 

To just toss the Rastas aside and have nothing to do with them will not save them.   I think it is admirable that the Ethiopian Church has made an effort to bring them to the Faith, and to an extent has succeeded.  Not all Rastas worship HIM.  Many, such as Gebre and Habte, worship the Holy Trinity alone.  You don't want to paint all Rastas with the same brush.


Thank you dear Salpy. Smiley


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« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2012, 02:51:17 AM »

Salpy, the difference is in evangelizing a particular population (which I am for) versus setting up some different norm for that population by which they may keep the vestiges of their pre-Christian belief even as they contradict apostolic Christian teaching. Please note that I am not saying that Abouna Yesehaq has done that, but the way that Rastafarian Orthodoxy or "the Rastafarian church" is talked about here by some of its proponents is most definitely a cause for concern.

As a counterpoint, there is a legend that says that when Boniface, the apostle to the Germans, evangelized the Germanic pagans he saw that they were worshiping a tree. In order to drive home the point that this is NOT what we worship, he cut it down and forbid the worship of it. I would say that in so far as this Rastafarian stuff presents a similar stumbling block to the adoption of the true faith (by virtue of the fact that, as Habte admits when he talks about it as a racial identity and a religious ideology that permits a heretical view of Haile Selassie, it is not religiously neutral with regards to potential conflicts between it and the Gospel), it too ought to be "cut down" so as to allow those who come to the Church through it to emerge as truly committed witnesses for the Orthodox faith. In fact, I should like more Rastafarians to come into the Church, until they're all here and nobody ever again confuses the Orthodox Christian emperor of Ethiopia for anything other than an Orthodox Christian believer. But to my mind, you can't get there from here if here remains mired in various viewpoints that mess with the doctrine and practice of Orthodox Christianity.

As an example from my own life, my background is Roman Catholic and there was a great deal that I had to give up or take up (depending) in coming to the Orthodox Church. Allowances are made for me (thanks be to God) on the basis of my own weakness and infant-level understanding of the Church, but just the same if I were to confess the filioque in reciting the Creed, or push for the recognition of post-schism saints or uniquely Roman doctrines in the Church, I would rightly and sternly be told that this is not Orthodox Christianity, and if I want to be Orthodox I will have to abandon these aspects of my former faith-life. So we all must be formed, right? It's not about any dislike towards Rastas as people.


I have never heard of any Ethiopian Orthodox Priest that baptized Rastas who openly confessed the worship of Emperor Haile Selasssie. Abuna Yesehaq encountered much persecution from certain Rastas because he refused to baptize them in the Emperor's name. Habte Selassie, myself, and many other Rastafarian EOTC members are Orthodox Tewahedo Christians first and foremost. We worship the Father, the Son, and The Holy Spirit, One God, amen. We do not worship H.I.M. Haile Selassie I, but we do venerate H.I.M. as Christ's evangelist who led us wandering sheep into the Orthodox Tewahedo fold.

Abuna Yesehaq possessed keen wisdom and Christian patience in his evangelistic efforts. His brilliance was evidenced by the fact that he wisely discerned what was necessary for salvation and what was not. And what is necessary for salvation is essentially a truly repentant heart, the worship of Jesus Christ, and the confession of the Nicene Creed. Abuna Yesehaq did not require Rastas to cut their locks. He did not demand that they stop using Ganja. He did not tell them that they had to forsake their vegetarian diet and begin eating meat. He did not tell them that their music was of the devil. He only preached the Orthodox Christian Faith to them, willingly and joyfully baptizing any and all who embraced Christ and His Church.

Certainly there were aspects of the Rastafarian lifestyle that were disturbing to Abuna Yesehaq. For example, he had difficulty with the Rastas' use of Ganja. But he was wise enough not to make marijuana use an issue that precluded Holy Baptism. Instead, he trusted the Holy Spirit to deal with such matters rather than presuming to play the role of the Holy Spirit himself.

It is also interesting to contemplate the title of Abuna Yesehaq's masterful book on the Church. The book is titled: The Ethiopian Tewahedo Church: An Integrally African Church. Notice that the subtitle does not read "A Primarily African Church," "A Supremely African Church," or "An Exclusively African Church." You see, Abuna Yesehaq recognized and valued the importance of cultural identity without elevating cultural identity to a prejudicial level. So, we must follow his sagacious example, neither elevating cultural identity to an exclusive level nor devaluing it with disparagement. For to do either one is to promote prejudice and racism.

Because of Abuna Yesehaq's wisdom, countless Rastafarians have renounced the idolatry of Selassie worship and have entered the Orthodox Church. Rather than condemning these Christian brethren as pagans and heretics simply because they continue to identify themselves as Rastafarians, please strive to love and accept us as an integral and vital part of the Church of Christ. If you see someone promoting the worship of Haile Selassie as God, then I will join with you in the effort to point them to Orthodox Truth. But as Salpy said, please don't paint all of us with a broad brush, condeming us and dismissing us out of ignorance and pride.


Selam
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« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2012, 03:45:54 AM »

Is he a saint?
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« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2012, 04:04:33 AM »

Is he a saint?


Perhaps. God knows.



Selam
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« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2012, 02:32:54 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Is he a saint?

To our community, practically Wink

There is so much love in our hearts and my own for the legacy of Abune Yesehaq, by God's Grace and the commission of the Emperor this father brought the Light and life of Orthodox to our community which has been afflicted and down-trodden clinging for a Light in such a dark world.  God saw our prayers and sent us an Apostle, who gave us all the love and fatherly compassion as any of those Apostles of the Gospels, and we are eternally grateful to the Almighty God! Many of us, myself included, have been personally impacted by this father.  Abune Yesehaq understood us and who we are, and he accepted us, and loved as his spiritual children, and raised us right in the good faith of the Apostles, regardless of the misunderstandings of others outside.  This is deeply personal, and folks who do not know would be kinder not to speak then to speak in ignorance of what is beyond their scope and range of experience. God Bless the Soul and Memory of our blessed Father Yesehaq, and may God continue to send us such beautiful fathers until His own return.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2012, 06:58:49 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Is he a saint?

To our community, practically Wink

There is so much love in our hearts and my own for the legacy of Abune Yesehaq, by God's Grace and the commission of the Emperor this father brought the Light and life of Orthodox to our community which has been afflicted and down-trodden clinging for a Light in such a dark world.  God saw our prayers and sent us an Apostle, who gave us all the love and fatherly compassion as any of those Apostles of the Gospels, and we are eternally grateful to the Almighty God! Many of us, myself included, have been personally impacted by this father.  Abune Yesehaq understood us and who we are, and he accepted us, and loved as his spiritual children, and raised us right in the good faith of the Apostles, regardless of the misunderstandings of others outside.  This is deeply personal, and folks who do not know would be kinder not to speak then to speak in ignorance of what is beyond their scope and range of experience. God Bless the Soul and Memory of our blessed Father Yesehaq, and may God continue to send us such beautiful fathers until His own return.

stay blessed,
habte selassie


Amen, amen, amen!



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« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2012, 11:37:03 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Is he a saint?

To our community, practically Wink

There is so much love in our hearts and my own for the legacy of Abune Yesehaq, by God's Grace and the commission of the Emperor this father brought the Light and life of Orthodox to our community which has been afflicted and down-trodden clinging for a Light in such a dark world.  God saw our prayers and sent us an Apostle, who gave us all the love and fatherly compassion as any of those Apostles of the Gospels, and we are eternally grateful to the Almighty God! Many of us, myself included, have been personally impacted by this father.  Abune Yesehaq understood us and who we are, and he accepted us, and loved as his spiritual children, and raised us right in the good faith of the Apostles, regardless of the misunderstandings of others outside.  This is deeply personal, and folks who do not know would be kinder not to speak then to speak in ignorance of what is beyond their scope and range of experience. God Bless the Soul and Memory of our blessed Father Yesehaq, and may God continue to send us such beautiful fathers until His own return.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Excerpt from the speech given by Abuna Yesehaq on the establishment of the EOTC in Jamaica, May 23, 1970:

... Blessed be our God, whom according to His abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of our Lord, Eyesus Kristos from the dead. Dear members, I am very grateful for the opportunity given to us today to establish the Ethiopian Orthodox Church Mission here in Jamaica. As of today you are received as full members of The Ethiopian Orthodox Church, which is an Indigenous Church of Africa. Today the Spirit of the Lord is given to all of you through Baptism, as it was spoken by the Prophet Ezekiel: "... I will sprinkle clean water upon you and ye shall be clean from all your uncleanliness. A New Heart I will give you and a New Spirit I will put within you, and cause you to walk in my Statutes and you shall keep my ordinances and do them. You shall dwell in the land which I gave to your Fathers; and ye shall be my people and I will be your God." ( Ezekiel 36: 25-28 )

    You are all sons of God through faith, for as many of you that were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. ... Brethren, the Mother Church of Ethiopia is not unmindful of your sincere devotion in the past to The Ethiopian Orthodox Church and to the deepest spiritual concern of His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I, Defender of our Faith [i.e. the ORTHODOX faith], and your concern in the Ethiopian World Federation. I am sure the Mother Church in Ethiopia can count on you as true Christian Soldiers ,who will stand fast and help to carry forward the doctrine of Our Saviour, which is needed so much in our world today.

We are in a corrupted world in which justice,spiritual laws and principles that are given by God are condemned and crushed by the unjust. People today do not humble themselves nor recognize the rights of others. ..."

Archbishop (Abuna) Yesehaq Mandefro -- Memory Eternal

   
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« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2012, 01:24:12 AM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Is he a saint?

To our community, practically Wink

There is so much love in our hearts and my own for the legacy of Abune Yesehaq, by God's Grace and the commission of the Emperor this father brought the Light and life of Orthodox to our community which has been afflicted and down-trodden clinging for a Light in such a dark world.  God saw our prayers and sent us an Apostle, who gave us all the love and fatherly compassion as any of those Apostles of the Gospels, and we are eternally grateful to the Almighty God! Many of us, myself included, have been personally impacted by this father.  Abune Yesehaq understood us and who we are, and he accepted us, and loved as his spiritual children, and raised us right in the good faith of the Apostles, regardless of the misunderstandings of others outside.  This is deeply personal, and folks who do not know would be kinder not to speak then to speak in ignorance of what is beyond their scope and range of experience. God Bless the Soul and Memory of our blessed Father Yesehaq, and may God continue to send us such beautiful fathers until His own return.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Excerpt from the speech given by Abuna Yesehaq on the establishment of the EOTC in Jamaica, May 23, 1970:

... Blessed be our God, whom according to His abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of our Lord, Eyesus Kristos from the dead. Dear members, I am very grateful for the opportunity given to us today to establish the Ethiopian Orthodox Church Mission here in Jamaica. As of today you are received as full members of The Ethiopian Orthodox Church, which is an Indigenous Church of Africa. Today the Spirit of the Lord is given to all of you through Baptism, as it was spoken by the Prophet Ezekiel: "... I will sprinkle clean water upon you and ye shall be clean from all your uncleanliness. A New Heart I will give you and a New Spirit I will put within you, and cause you to walk in my Statutes and you shall keep my ordinances and do them. You shall dwell in the land which I gave to your Fathers; and ye shall be my people and I will be your God." ( Ezekiel 36: 25-28 )

    You are all sons of God through faith, for as many of you that were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. ... Brethren, the Mother Church of Ethiopia is not unmindful of your sincere devotion in the past to The Ethiopian Orthodox Church and to the deepest spiritual concern of His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I, Defender of our Faith [i.e. the ORTHODOX faith], and your concern in the Ethiopian World Federation. I am sure the Mother Church in Ethiopia can count on you as true Christian Soldiers ,who will stand fast and help to carry forward the doctrine of Our Saviour, which is needed so much in our world today.

We are in a corrupted world in which justice,spiritual laws and principles that are given by God are condemned and crushed by the unjust. People today do not humble themselves nor recognize the rights of others. ..."

Archbishop (Abuna) Yesehaq Mandefro -- Memory Eternal

   


Amen, amen, amen!!!


Selam
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« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2012, 11:03:38 PM »

A heated discussion about Abouna Yesehaq was split off and put in the private forum:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,42903.msg706112.html#msg706112


If anyone wants admission to the private forum, they can pm Fr. Chris and ask him for admission to it.
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« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2012, 11:13:06 PM »

sorry salpy, I guess when you were posting I was posting as well. you can move my last comment as well to there if you will.
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« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2012, 11:14:03 PM »

It's OK.  That happens.   Smiley
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« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2012, 06:42:21 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Is he a saint?

To our community, practically Wink

There is so much love in our hearts and my own for the legacy of Abune Yesehaq, by God's Grace and the commission of the Emperor this father brought the Light and life of Orthodox to our community which has been afflicted and down-trodden clinging for a Light in such a dark world.  God saw our prayers and sent us an Apostle, who gave us all the love and fatherly compassion as any of those Apostles of the Gospels, and we are eternally grateful to the Almighty God! Many of us, myself included, have been personally impacted by this father.  Abune Yesehaq understood us and who we are, and he accepted us, and loved as his spiritual children, and raised us right in the good faith of the Apostles, regardless of the misunderstandings of others outside.  This is deeply personal, and folks who do not know would be kinder not to speak then to speak in ignorance of what is beyond their scope and range of experience. God Bless the Soul and Memory of our blessed Father Yesehaq, and may God continue to send us such beautiful fathers until His own return.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Excerpt from the speech given by Abuna Yesehaq on the establishment of the EOTC in Jamaica, May 23, 1970:

... Blessed be our God, whom according to His abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of our Lord, Eyesus Kristos from the dead. Dear members, I am very grateful for the opportunity given to us today to establish the Ethiopian Orthodox Church Mission here in Jamaica. As of today you are received as full members of The Ethiopian Orthodox Church, which is an Indigenous Church of Africa. Today the Spirit of the Lord is given to all of you through Baptism, as it was spoken by the Prophet Ezekiel: "... I will sprinkle clean water upon you and ye shall be clean from all your uncleanliness. A New Heart I will give you and a New Spirit I will put within you, and cause you to walk in my Statutes and you shall keep my ordinances and do them. You shall dwell in the land which I gave to your Fathers; and ye shall be my people and I will be your God." ( Ezekiel 36: 25-28 )

    You are all sons of God through faith, for as many of you that were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. ... Brethren, the Mother Church of Ethiopia is not unmindful of your sincere devotion in the past to The Ethiopian Orthodox Church and to the deepest spiritual concern of His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I, Defender of our Faith [i.e. the ORTHODOX faith], and your concern in the Ethiopian World Federation. I am sure the Mother Church in Ethiopia can count on you as true Christian Soldiers ,who will stand fast and help to carry forward the doctrine of Our Saviour, which is needed so much in our world today.

We are in a corrupted world in which justice,spiritual laws and principles that are given by God are condemned and crushed by the unjust. People today do not humble themselves nor recognize the rights of others. ..."

Archbishop (Abuna) Yesehaq Mandefro -- Memory Eternal

    

MamaDorothy,
Could you give us a source for the quote, such as a link to the website you got it from, or, if from a book, a citation for it?  Thanks.   Smiley
Salpy
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« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2012, 08:45:27 PM »

Greetings, Salpy:

The entire speech can be found online at http://www.abbayesehaq.com/home.htm  There is also more information about the establishment of the EOTC in Jamaica, in Abuna Yesehaq's own words, in his book "The Ethiopian Orthodox Church," pages 201 through 217, including the following:

"In 1973, Bishop Athanasius visited the church and ordained some Western-born clergymen.  His Holiness Abuna Theophilus, patriarch of Ethiopia, visisted the United States in June 1973. ... Having completed his visit to the United States, the patriarch of Ethiopia arrived on the island of Jamaica later that month, accompanied by Bishop Makarios, Bishop Athanasius, His Excellency Blatian Geta Mahitame Selassie, and other dignitaries of the Ethiopian government. He was given a befitting welcome at the Norman Manley airport by heads of various churches, members of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, and government officials, including the Honorable Dudley Thompson, who welcomed him on behalf of the prime minister.  During the Patriarch's visit, a special service was held by the church at the Maxfield Park site, which was granted to the Ethiopian Orthodox Church by the government of Jamaica."

To gain an understanding of the mission of Abuna Yesehaq Mandefro to Jamaica and other locations in the Western hemisphere, it is best to read his book.

I also received a private message from Quote from: Michał Kalina on February 10 at 09:15:09 AM about this. 

"Hello,
As a moderator I ask you to provide a source link ot the quote you used in that post:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,29329.msg705609.html#msg705609
You have two days to complete my request.
m."

I found the tone of the request "You have two days to complete my request" somewhat distressing.  I am not online every day.  May I ask what was the urgency and why it was phrased in a way that seemed to imply a command?  I am not a subversive.  I am an Orthodox from birth and a practicing Orthodox believer.  I have great respect for Abuna Yesehaq Mandefro, who was a graduate of Saint Vladimir's Theological Seminary (class of 1967).  He was every bit as "Orthodox" as we are.

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Is he a saint?

To our community, practically Wink

There is so much love in our hearts and my own for the legacy of Abune Yesehaq, by God's Grace and the commission of the Emperor this father brought the Light and life of Orthodox to our community which has been afflicted and down-trodden clinging for a Light in such a dark world.  God saw our prayers and sent us an Apostle, who gave us all the love and fatherly compassion as any of those Apostles of the Gospels, and we are eternally grateful to the Almighty God! Many of us, myself included, have been personally impacted by this father.  Abune Yesehaq understood us and who we are, and he accepted us, and loved as his spiritual children, and raised us right in the good faith of the Apostles, regardless of the misunderstandings of others outside.  This is deeply personal, and folks who do not know would be kinder not to speak then to speak in ignorance of what is beyond their scope and range of experience. God Bless the Soul and Memory of our blessed Father Yesehaq, and may God continue to send us such beautiful fathers until His own return.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Excerpt from the speech given by Abuna Yesehaq on the establishment of the EOTC in Jamaica, May 23, 1970:

... Blessed be our God, whom according to His abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of our Lord, Eyesus Kristos from the dead. Dear members, I am very grateful for the opportunity given to us today to establish the Ethiopian Orthodox Church Mission here in Jamaica. As of today you are received as full members of The Ethiopian Orthodox Church, which is an Indigenous Church of Africa. Today the Spirit of the Lord is given to all of you through Baptism, as it was spoken by the Prophet Ezekiel: "... I will sprinkle clean water upon you and ye shall be clean from all your uncleanliness. A New Heart I will give you and a New Spirit I will put within you, and cause you to walk in my Statutes and you shall keep my ordinances and do them. You shall dwell in the land which I gave to your Fathers; and ye shall be my people and I will be your God." ( Ezekiel 36: 25-28 )

    You are all sons of God through faith, for as many of you that were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. ... Brethren, the Mother Church of Ethiopia is not unmindful of your sincere devotion in the past to The Ethiopian Orthodox Church and to the deepest spiritual concern of His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I, Defender of our Faith [i.e. the ORTHODOX faith], and your concern in the Ethiopian World Federation. I am sure the Mother Church in Ethiopia can count on you as true Christian Soldiers ,who will stand fast and help to carry forward the doctrine of Our Saviour, which is needed so much in our world today.

We are in a corrupted world in which justice,spiritual laws and principles that are given by God are condemned and crushed by the unjust. People today do not humble themselves nor recognize the rights of others. ..."

Archbishop (Abuna) Yesehaq Mandefro -- Memory Eternal

    

MamaDorothy,
Could you give us a source for the quote, such as a link to the website you got it from, or, if from a book, a citation for it?  Thanks.   Smiley
Salpy

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Salpy
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« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2012, 08:47:48 PM »

Thanks for responding.  Michal sent you the request because of forum rules.  It wasn't intended to distress you.   Smiley
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« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2012, 08:55:37 PM »

Thanks for responding.  Michal sent you the request because of forum rules.  It wasn't intended to distress you.   Smiley

Thank you, Salpy.  I seldom post, because by nature I try to avoid arousing conflict of any kind (although I read a great deal of what is posted on these forums).  I was unaware that a citation must be given for quotations.  I will be sure to do so in the future. 
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Salpy
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Pray for the Christians of Iraq and Syria.


« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2012, 09:00:26 PM »

Thanks.  And try to post more often.  You have a lot to say and I enjoy reading your posts.  

I understand the desire to avoid conflict, but you don't seem like someone who would cause trouble.   Smiley
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« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2012, 10:00:01 PM »

Thanks.  And try to post more often.  You have a lot to say and I enjoy reading your posts.  

I understand the desire to avoid conflict, but you don't seem like someone who would cause trouble.   Smiley

Abba Nilus said, “The arrows of the enemy cannot touch one who loves quietness; but he who moves about in a crowd will often be wounded.”
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