Author Topic: Consecration of Gifts: Is it just the Amnos, or the entire Proskomide?  (Read 10669 times)

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Offline Nigula Qian Zishi

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Re: Consecration of Gifts: Is it just the Amnos, or the entire Proskomide?
« Reply #90 on: August 17, 2010, 08:16:50 AM »
With no disrespect intended, the concept of any and anything coming into contact with the Holy Things becoming the Body and Blood of Christ seems to me to teeter on the edge of a magical approach to the Mysteries.  A fly landing in the chalice does not become the Body of Christ.  The spoon does not become the Body of Christ.  Water added to the chalice does not become the Blood of Christ - certainly, it makes the Blood go further if need be by increasing the amount of fluid, but this is by diffusion of particles, surely, and not through some sort of magical passing on of essence through contact.  Otherwise, in order to receive Communion, we would never need to serve a Liturgy ever again.  We could just touch multiple loaves to a portion of the Holy Body each week, and place a tiny drop of the precious Blood in a massive vat of water, and we would be set up for years to come.

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Offline monkvasyl

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Re: Consecration of Gifts: Is it just the Amnos, or the entire Proskomide?
« Reply #91 on: August 17, 2010, 11:14:11 AM »
In the various churches I've attended - both Greek and Russian - I can only remember seeing the particles being placed into the chalice after the communion of the people.

That's what we were instructed.  Before communion only the Lamb is added to the Holy Chalice.  The particles are only added after communion of the faithful.  I was told only Eastern Rite Catholics consecrate every piece of bread on the diskos.
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Offline pensateomnia

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Re: Consecration of Gifts: Is it just the Amnos, or the entire Proskomide?
« Reply #92 on: August 17, 2010, 02:54:56 PM »
Serbski, I hate to burst your bubble, but I spoke with my proistamenos, who took Liturgics, Sacramental Theology, and Teleturgics from Calivas, and Calivas told them that only the Amnos is the Body of Christ; in fact, in the context of the conversation, he suggested that Fr. Alkiviadis would be greatly troubled hearing that a teleturgics professor at the school was teaching that all particles are the Body of Christ.

I can confirm this. Fr. Calivas guest taught a session of my teleturgics class, in which he gave a right proper discourse on this subject.  ;)

Of course, none of this would have applied to the early liturgy (i.e. up to the 8th century), wherein communion of lay people was by means of separate species.
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