Messianic Judiasm

[seraphimspm]

Awhile ago, I posed a question to SVS, that has never been answered.  Perhaps someone out there can shed some light on this subject for me.  I know that the True Messianic Jews were called Nazerenes and that historically they found their fulfillment in Antioch, or the Antiochian Orthodox Church. Does anyone have more detailed info on this group and their history.  In my work, I come across many Messianic Jews, who I enjoy talking with, but pick and choose what they will believe. Help!

[MyMapleStory]

If they were apart of the antiochian Orthodoxy church wouldn't it just make sense to assume and follow the church history regarding Antioch? But I've never heared of that,

[Quinault]

I think you are thinking of the "Jews for Jesus" movement. Our parish priest Fr. James Berstein helped start that movement with Moishe Rosen. Here is a link to the page he made about his book;
http://www.surprisedbychrist.com/

There is also an Orthodox priest in Jerusalem serving the liturgy in Hebrew (amongst other languages). Here is his website as well:
http://abbaaw.blogspot.com/

(I know that forum policy says that blogs are a no-no, but since it is just him working over there Fr. Av Aleksandr does not have anything outside a blog to share what he does)

[seraphimspm]

I have had the pleasure of talking with Fr James, and actually he mentions the Nazerenes in his book "Surprised by Christ".  What I am looking for is the history of how they came to be associated with the Church in Antioch.  This history has been impossible for me to find, so far!

[Antonious Nikolas]

There's a young lady who is a member of the Nazarene sect on these boards.  Do a search for "Nazarene" and you should find her.

[deusveritasest]

I know that the True Messianic Jews were called Nazerenes and that historically they found their fulfillment in Antioch, or the Antiochian Orthodox Church.

Huh? Why would you say that rather than the ancient Church of Jerusalem which was run by them?

[Ionnis]

I would read "The Rise of Christianity" by Frend as it explains the development of the Church, sometimes in excruciating detail.  If you want a sort of "Cliff's notes" version, I'd pick up "Formation and Struggles" by Veselin Kesich and read Chapter 2, "The Birth of the Church in Jerusalem".  Less than twenty pages, but it is enlightening. 

[Alveus Lacuna]

There's a young lady who is a member of the Nazarene sect on these boards.

Slight correction: She is a member/founder of a reconstructionist sect which seeks to restore the ancient and now defunct Nazarenes. She looks to the preserved worship of the Orthodox, Roman Catholics, Nestorians, and the various Oriental families, as well as Talmudic Jewish prayers and worship, all in an attempt to create an ideal synthesis of what she projects back into time as the most faithful form of Christianity.

There are no groups associated with the Nazarenes which survive to this day from antiquity. The best thing you can do is look at the surviving ancient churches, but that goes beyond Antiochian Orthodox to the Syrian Orientals, the Assyrian Church of the East, et cetera. I think it would be a gross oversimplification to only say that the Nazarenes became the Antiochian Orthodox. There are tons of divisions of ancient Christian communities in Antioch. Antioch underwent the pain of the many Christological disputes, and she has the scars to prove it, even today.

[seraphimspm]

Thank You.  I will pick up these books.  From the little I have discovered, so far, it seems a monumental task, if not an impossible one, to sort out what appears to be a very convoluted history.  I have learned much about the Nazarenes but have not found the link to the Antiochians in Damascus as yet.  The Nazarenes seem to simply "disappear" in the rise of Gentile Christianity.  I have found two distinct groups of this sect, the Nazarenes and the Ebionite's.  One definitely orthodox in their beliefs, but holding on to certain aspects of the Law, and the other heretical.  Much light was shed on this subject in the writings of Eusebius.  I will continue my research into this history.  Thank you Antonious for the heads up.

[Antonious Nikolas]

There's a young lady who is a member of the Nazarene sect on these boards.

Slight correction: She is a member/founder of a reconstructionist sect which seeks to restore the ancient and now defunct Nazarenes. She looks to the preserved worship of the Orthodox, Roman Catholics, Nestorians, and the various Oriental families, as well as Talmudic Jewish prayers and worship, all in an attempt to create an ideal synthesis of what she projects back into time as the most faithful form of Christianity.

There are no groups associated with the Nazarenes which survive to this day from antiquity. The best thing you can do is look at the surviving ancient churches, but that goes beyond Antiochian Orthodox to the Syrian Orientals, the Assyrian Church of the East, et cetera. I think it would be a gross oversimplification to only say that the Nazarenes became the Antiochian Orthodox. There are tons of divisions of ancient Christian communities in Antioch. Antioch underwent the pain of the many Christological disputes, and she has the scars to prove it, even today.

Thanks for the clarification!  I didn't mean to imply that her group had any connection to the ancient sect, just that she was a part of a Messianic Jewish sect of today that used the name.  I should've been more clear.

[Anastasia1]

There's a young lady who is a member of the Nazarene sect on these boards.

Slight correction: She is a member/founder of a reconstructionist sect which seeks to restore the ancient and now defunct Nazarenes. She looks to the preserved worship of the Orthodox, Roman Catholics, Nestorians, and the various Oriental families, as well as Talmudic Jewish prayers and worship, all in an attempt to create an ideal synthesis of what she projects back into time as the most faithful form of Christianity.

Is this the group that now identifies as Nazarene or a different group? Is it related to the reconstructionist movement out of regular Judaism, or is reconstructionist simply a trait among them?

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