Author Topic: how big is this sin?/  (Read 1375 times)

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Offline marinajoannou

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how big is this sin?/
« on: August 07, 2010, 02:26:55 PM »
having a child and not being married?we r going to get married soon but how big is the sin?

Offline Salpy

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Re: how big is this sin?/
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2010, 02:39:11 PM »
It's not for me or anyone else on this forum to judge you or your sins.   :)

This is obviously something to confess and discuss with your priest.  Don't be shy about it.  You are not the only one, and your priest will not be shocked.

It's good that you are getting married.  Congratulations!   :)

Offline kansas city

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Re: how big is this sin?/
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2010, 02:43:12 PM »
having a child and going to get married soon

Wonderful.  Congratulations marina!

Offline Heorhij

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Re: how big is this sin?/
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2010, 04:26:28 PM »
Marina, congratulations! Many Years! Your child is a blessing and your soon-to-happen marriage is a great and Holy Mystery, a Sacrament, a very, very right thing. Concentrate on the positive! :)
Love never fails.

Offline Quinault

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Re: how big is this sin?/
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2010, 05:24:07 PM »
The question isn't exactly "how big a sin." All sin is pretty much equal. The ramifications or consequences that you endure as a result of each sin are different.

Having a child is both the biggest blessing and the most difficult thing an individual or couple can do. Having a child will strengthen a relationship that has a good preexisting foundation. But if a relationship is faltering, it could start to uproot the relationship altogether. Your pregnancy and child are a tremendous blessing. I would highly suggest that you speak to your priest and start going thru couples counseling now. This isn't to say that your relationship is bad now. But the stresses of pregnancy and raising a child can bring to light issues you would never have thought of before. Getting married is a wonderful thing. But don't just marry because you are pregnant, don't rush the relationship into marriage because you are pregnant. Marriage won't "fix" anything or make your pregnancy retroactively "OK." Deal with the things before you, don't focus on the past. Work on the journey of preparing for the birth of your child. But focus as well on cementing the relationship you have now with your partner. Get everything on the table now and make peace with one another. To some extent you will be at a disadvantage because you will be focusing on your relationship as parents together before you really have a chance to focus on your relationship as husband and wife. To prevent the relationship from turning into a co-parenting relationship first and marriage second, you need to make sure you make time for each other that is outside of parenthood. You fell in love with each other as man and woman, not mom and dad. Make time to focus on each other each day now and continue it after your child is born.

Many years to you and yours! :)

Offline Punch

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Re: how big is this sin?/
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2010, 10:51:06 PM »
There is no such thing as "a sin", so you cannot have a big sin or a little sin.  Sin is a state of being.  While having a child out of wedlock is not perfection, and is therefor sinful and to be avoided, getting married is a most joyous and wonderful thing.  Congratulations!  And may you married life be a long and happy one.  Personally, I consider not capitalizing the first word of a sentence and using "r" for the word "are" far more sinfull :-)
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Christianus

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Re: how big is this sin?/
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2010, 04:52:05 AM »
Vous n'avez pas judgé?  ???
You people haven't judged? omg if this were a independent baptist forum, you'd be demanding that she convert, or else she'd go to hell.
You people aren't judgemental, just like Jesus commanded you to be forgiving...
This makes me reflect on my experiences.. kyrie eleison me.

To me Orthodox Christians act most like the true Christians.
But the Latin speaking Christians sing the most beautifully. Even though it's the same song as the orthodox's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aah_ITLw3R8&feature=related

Congratulations Marina.
You'll get through this all if you two love each other.
Couple counselling is nothing without love.
Love is what makes it all worth it.
Just make love your first priority before money etc, and you'll be fine.

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: how big is this sin?/
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2010, 05:53:28 AM »
My two cents, FWIW:

1. Sex outside of marriage is sinful.

2. Bringing life into the world is always a blessing.

3. It is best to procreate within the context of marriage.

4. God will never condemn those who choose life over abortion and artificial brith control, even if the life they have conceived was done so outside of marriage.

5. There is no such thing as an "illegitimate child." All children are legitimate in Our Lord's eyes.

6. It seems that you are taking the right steps in getting married so that you can raise your child together as God intends.


Peace to you.


Selam
« Last Edit: August 08, 2010, 05:54:04 AM by Gebre Menfes Kidus »
"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
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Offline marinajoannou

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Re: how big is this sin?/
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2010, 12:35:44 PM »
i think i didnt explain myself proberly......i have a child her name is athena she is year and six months and we r going to get married now because we couldnt pay for a wedding at the time when i first found out i was pregnant with athena cos my famiy wanted a huge greek wedding. its only been recently that i have been reading bout my faith. So im new to everything bout it, as some of u know from my other thread bout being (sort of new to the faith) even through i have been greek orthodox all my life i didnt know any bout it cos i dont understand greek.. but i have reading alot bout it lately and i really want to be better christain. i just didnt want to be living in sin any longer and my fiance wants to start trying for another baby. so i just throught that maybe god would forgive me as we havent married yet as it been such along time. we arent marrying cos we having children we love each other deeply.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2010, 12:37:22 PM by marinajoannou »

Offline Quinault

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Re: how big is this sin?/
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2010, 03:25:05 PM »
It would not be advisable to try and have another baby before you are married.

Offline kansas city

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Re: how big is this sin?/
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2010, 04:24:33 PM »
There are ideals and realities. 

Glory to God you're desiring to take your faith seriously.  It means very much to me however 'disconnected' I am or insignificant my opinion.  A child being raised consciously in The Church of Christ, I feel, is a very glorious thing.  We are accountable to God for what we've been given, and will be judged by God in our circumstances which differ from any other person who's lived.  Know that God is and will be your Judge, not other parishioners or members of your community.  Understand where people are coming from but please don't internalize their judgment of you and your family.  You're trying to do what you know is best and God will see that.

Is your Husband Orthodox as well, does he have a desire to pursue his life in Christ more fully alongside you?

Offline Quinault

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Re: how big is this sin?/
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2010, 05:33:21 PM »
From experience I can say that a year and a half is a wonderful age (I have 4 kids). The ages 2-3 are a bit more challenging ;) The stress of planning a wedding combined with pregnancy can be a bit much. Add in the fact that 1 in 4 pregnancies end in miscarriage and pregnancy is even more stressful. This isn't to say that you will miscarry. But dealing with something like a pregnancy (or wondering about the health of your pregnancy/baby, not to mention pregnancy discomforts) while planning a wedding would be too much for anyone to handle. There isn't a race, you have plenty of time to have more babies after you are married :D

Offline xariskai

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Re: how big is this sin?/
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2010, 03:45:13 AM »
You should confess and discuss this with your priest.

To me Orthodox Christians act most like the true Christians.
But the Latin speaking Christians sing the most beautifully.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aah_ITLw3R8&feature=related
I think you half right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xReTkGw_jQM&feature=related
« Last Edit: August 09, 2010, 03:52:29 AM by xariskai »

Offline marinajoannou

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Re: how big is this sin?/
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2010, 01:28:53 PM »
There are ideals and realities. 

Glory to God you're desiring to take your faith seriously.  It means very much to me however 'disconnected' I am or insignificant my opinion.  A child being raised consciously in The Church of Christ, I feel, is a very glorious thing.  We are accountable to God for what we've been given, and will be judged by God in our circumstances which differ from any other person who's lived.  Know that God is and will be your Judge, not other parishioners or members of your community.  Understand where people are coming from but please don't internalize their judgment of you and your family.  You're trying to do what you know is best and God will see that.

Is your Husband Orthodox as well, does he have a desire to pursue his life in Christ more fully alongside you?
ummm to answer ur question no he isnt a christian he is muslim..i know it going to be hard being different faiths but i know we can get through it together.

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: how big is this sin?/
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2010, 02:48:58 PM »

I could be wrong, but, I don't think you can marry within the Orthodox Church, if you are marrying a non-Christian.

Is your daughter baptized?

What does your husband-to-be say about all this?  Is he willing to get married in a "Christian Church" (even if it were permitted)?

You are in a really tough position.  May God help you and guide you, for only He knows what is best for you.
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Offline Quinault

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Re: how big is this sin?/
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2010, 04:51:17 PM »
If he is Muslim you will have some extra hurdles to overcome. Go and talk to your priest as soon as possible.

Offline Punch

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Re: how big is this sin?/
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2010, 08:16:52 AM »
There are ideals and realities. 

Glory to God you're desiring to take your faith seriously.  It means very much to me however 'disconnected' I am or insignificant my opinion.  A child being raised consciously in The Church of Christ, I feel, is a very glorious thing.  We are accountable to God for what we've been given, and will be judged by God in our circumstances which differ from any other person who's lived.  Know that God is and will be your Judge, not other parishioners or members of your community.  Understand where people are coming from but please don't internalize their judgment of you and your family.  You're trying to do what you know is best and God will see that.

Is your Husband Orthodox as well, does he have a desire to pursue his life in Christ more fully alongside you?
ummm to answer ur question no he isnt a christian he is muslim..i know it going to be hard being different faiths but i know we can get through it together.

It is from this point that I will remain silent.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline marinajoannou

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Re: how big is this sin?/
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2010, 04:03:43 PM »
yes athena was christened in orthodox church, but i know we cant get married in the church..which is a shame as ive always envisioned get married in a church..and no he doesnt want to convert he is very religious i havent always been that religous so who am i too changed that?who am i to demand him to changed?i always believe that god has a path for everyone, so whatever happens i believe is meant too be cos god wills it.

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: how big is this sin?/
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2010, 04:21:35 PM »

Not everything that happens is because God wills it, but, because people have free will, and they will it.

IF God had intended for all these various faiths to exist...and it's "all good", Christ would not have instructed His disciples, the Apostles, to go and spread the Word.

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"   Matthew 28:19

It is human frailty and pride that keep them from Christ....not God's will.

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: how big is this sin?/
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2010, 05:05:29 PM »
There are ideals and realities.  

Glory to God you're desiring to take your faith seriously.  It means very much to me however 'disconnected' I am or insignificant my opinion.  A child being raised consciously in The Church of Christ, I feel, is a very glorious thing.  We are accountable to God for what we've been given, and will be judged by God in our circumstances which differ from any other person who's lived.  Know that God is and will be your Judge, not other parishioners or members of your community.  Understand where people are coming from but please don't internalize their judgment of you and your family.  You're trying to do what you know is best and God will see that.

Is your Husband Orthodox as well, does he have a desire to pursue his life in Christ more fully alongside you?
ummm to answer ur question no he isnt a christian he is muslim..i know it going to be hard being different faiths but i know we can get through it together.
Do you really understand the conflicts that will arise from being so dissimilar on such foundational issues as religious faith?  How will you view this once the feeling of being madly in love with each other wears off and you realize you're stuck with each other?  It's often been said that love is blind.  I think that adage may very well be true in this case, and not in a good way.  Your head's in the clouds, and you can't see the cliff you're about to fly into.  Forgive me for being somewhat insensitive, but I would almost recommend you break off your relationship altogether, for it's going to take people of an exceptional character extremely rare in our society to make such an impossible marriage work.

But don't just follow my recommendation, since I'm just another anonymous Internet yahoo spouting his own uninformed opinion.  You really need to talk to your priest about this.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2010, 05:10:06 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline zoarthegleaner

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Re: how big is this sin?/
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2010, 07:12:24 PM »
Its hugeamongus....but
My two cents, FWIW:

1. Sex outside of marriage is sinful.

2. Bringing life into the world is always a blessing.

3. It is best to procreate within the context of marriage.

4. God will never condemn those who choose life over abortion and artificial brith control, even if the life they have conceived was done so outside of marriage.

5. There is no such thing as an "illegitimate child." All children are legitimate in Our Lord's eyes.

6. It seems that you are taking the right steps in getting married so that you can raise your child together as God intends.


Peace to you.


Selam

Why do you say this and on what basis?   The 1 Cor passage, but how would that apply to all children? 

The Apostle Paul describes children who are undisciplined by their fathers as being illegitimate/Bastard(KJV) Heb. 12:8

Thus, it would seem to me that it is correct to use the term illegitimate children.  I have seen many of them running around a major department store.

Secondly, under the Mosaic law an illegitimate child was one born out of wed-lock which could also include a child from a mixed religious marriage.  There were specific requirements which applied even to that childs offspring, Dut. 23:2



john
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and I have always aimed to live up to it.
Grace is also my name,
but when things go wrong
its Courteous whom I blame;
but its Grace who sees me through it.

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: how big is this sin?/
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2010, 08:26:09 PM »
Its hugeamongus....but
My two cents, FWIW:

1. Sex outside of marriage is sinful.

2. Bringing life into the world is always a blessing.

3. It is best to procreate within the context of marriage.

4. God will never condemn those who choose life over abortion and artificial brith control, even if the life they have conceived was done so outside of marriage.

5. There is no such thing as an "illegitimate child." All children are legitimate in Our Lord's eyes.

6. It seems that you are taking the right steps in getting married so that you can raise your child together as God intends.


Peace to you.


Selam

Why do you say this and on what basis?   The 1 Cor passage, but how would that apply to all children? 

The Apostle Paul describes children who are undisciplined by their fathers as being illegitimate/Bastard(KJV) Heb. 12:8

Thus, it would seem to me that it is correct to use the term illegitimate children.  I have seen many of them running around a major department store.

Secondly, under the Mosaic law an illegitimate child was one born out of wed-lock which could also include a child from a mixed religious marriage.  There were specific requirements which applied even to that childs offspring, Dut. 23:2



john

Individual actions may be legitimate or illegitimate, but no one is "illegitimate" simply because of the circumstances of their birth over which they had no control. Many people have been emotionally and psychologically scarred because they have been labeled "illegitimate," "bastard," etc. God does not condemn a child because of the actions of their parents, and neither should we.


Selam
"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+

Offline ialmisry

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Re: how big is this sin?/
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2010, 11:46:30 PM »
There are ideals and realities.  

Glory to God you're desiring to take your faith seriously.  It means very much to me however 'disconnected' I am or insignificant my opinion.  A child being raised consciously in The Church of Christ, I feel, is a very glorious thing.  We are accountable to God for what we've been given, and will be judged by God in our circumstances which differ from any other person who's lived.  Know that God is and will be your Judge, not other parishioners or members of your community.  Understand where people are coming from but please don't internalize their judgment of you and your family.  You're trying to do what you know is best and God will see that.

Is your Husband Orthodox as well, does he have a desire to pursue his life in Christ more fully alongside you?
ummm to answer ur question no he isnt a christian he is muslim..i know it going to be hard being different faiths but i know we can get through it together.
Do you really understand the conflicts that will arise from being so dissimilar on such foundational issues as religious faith?  How will you view this once the feeling of being madly in love with each other wears off and you realize you're stuck with each other?  It's often been said that love is blind.  I think that adage may very well be true in this case, and not in a good way.  Your head's in the clouds, and you can't see the cliff you're about to fly into.  Forgive me for being somewhat insensitive, but I would almost recommend you break off your relationship altogether, for it's going to take people of an exceptional character extremely rare in our society to make such an impossible marriage work.

But don't just follow my recommendation, since I'm just another anonymous Internet yahoo spouting his own uninformed opinion.  You really need to talk to your priest about this.
I'd strenuously underline this last point, but the problem is that she isn't going to be able to break off the relationship altogether, as now they have a child together. Trying to have another child without being married is definitely a bad, bad idea.

I'm not sure about the custody rights under Muslim law with illegitate children, definitely an issue you want to know about if you are involved with a Muslim.  I know that the children conceived in adultery belong to the legal husband.
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Offline Quinault

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Re: how big is this sin?/
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2010, 11:53:41 PM »
I looked into the law a bit because a friend married a Muslim man. Once a woman is married to a man from certain countries she loses primary parental rights. If the couple divorces the husband has legal parental rights and the wife does not. Whereas in the US there would be a court case for custody, in certain countries like Morocco, the mother has no legal rights. The default custody always falls to the man, even if the woman is a citizen of another country. So if an american woman marries a Moroccan man and has a child (while retaining american citizenship) the husband can flee the US to Morocco with the children and the wife will have no ability to bring her child back to the US. Morocco is actually pretty liberal compared to some since a wife can divorce her husband and doesn't have to have his permission to leave the country unless she takes the children with her.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2010, 11:54:51 PM by Quinault »

Offline ialmisry

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Re: how big is this sin?/
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2010, 11:55:50 PM »
Its hugeamongus....but
My two cents, FWIW:

1. Sex outside of marriage is sinful.

2. Bringing life into the world is always a blessing.

3. It is best to procreate within the context of marriage.

4. God will never condemn those who choose life over abortion and artificial brith control, even if the life they have conceived was done so outside of marriage.

5. There is no such thing as an "illegitimate child." All children are legitimate in Our Lord's eyes.

6. It seems that you are taking the right steps in getting married so that you can raise your child together as God intends.


Peace to you.


Selam

Why do you say this and on what basis?   The 1 Cor passage, but how would that apply to all children? 

The Apostle Paul describes children who are undisciplined by their fathers as being illegitimate/Bastard(KJV) Heb. 12:8

Thus, it would seem to me that it is correct to use the term illegitimate children.  I have seen many of them running around a major department store.

Secondly, under the Mosaic law an illegitimate child was one born out of wed-lock which could also include a child from a mixed religious marriage.  There were specific requirements which applied even to that childs offspring, Dut. 23:2



john

Individual actions may be legitimate or illegitimate, but no one is "illegitimate" simply because of the circumstances of their birth over which they had no control. Many people have been emotionally and psychologically scarred because they have been labeled "illegitimate," "bastard," etc. God does not condemn a child because of the actions of their parents, and neither should we.
Their parents condemn them by their action.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: how big is this sin?/
« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2010, 12:03:27 AM »
Its hugeamongus....but
My two cents, FWIW:

1. Sex outside of marriage is sinful.

2. Bringing life into the world is always a blessing.

3. It is best to procreate within the context of marriage.

4. God will never condemn those who choose life over abortion and artificial brith control, even if the life they have conceived was done so outside of marriage.

5. There is no such thing as an "illegitimate child." All children are legitimate in Our Lord's eyes.

6. It seems that you are taking the right steps in getting married so that you can raise your child together as God intends.


Peace to you.


Selam

Why do you say this and on what basis?   The 1 Cor passage, but how would that apply to all children? 

The Apostle Paul describes children who are undisciplined by their fathers as being illegitimate/Bastard(KJV) Heb. 12:8

Thus, it would seem to me that it is correct to use the term illegitimate children.  I have seen many of them running around a major department store.

Secondly, under the Mosaic law an illegitimate child was one born out of wed-lock which could also include a child from a mixed religious marriage.  There were specific requirements which applied even to that childs offspring, Dut. 23:2



john

Individual actions may be legitimate or illegitimate, but no one is "illegitimate" simply because of the circumstances of their birth over which they had no control. Many people have been emotionally and psychologically scarred because they have been labeled "illegitimate," "bastard," etc. God does not condemn a child because of the actions of their parents, and neither should we.
Their parents condemn them by their action.

The parents actions are sinful, not the child's. Let us not add more condemnation upon innocent children. Do not forget that many people would have condemned Our Lord as an "illegitimate" or "bastard" child. There are enough unwarranted prejudices and social stigmas placed upon people without us as Christians adding to the inujustice by declaring some children "illegitimate." Condemn adultery and fornication, but don't condemn the innocent child.


Selam
"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+