OrthodoxChristianity.net
December 20, 2014, 04:14:37 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: who is the first to commune?  (Read 34255 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
scamandrius
Crusher of Secrets; House Lannister
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: I'm Greek and proud of it, damn it!
Posts: 6,279



« on: July 26, 2010, 01:14:15 PM »

Following bishops and priests, on "regular" Sundays, who of the laity communes first?  Is it tradition that the priest's wife communes first or is that just made up? 
Logged

I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,975


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2010, 01:25:21 PM »

I don't think that, in practice today, there is an order. But, if I were to make one up from traditional practices of hierarchy in Orthodoxy, it would be, after the higher clergy, then the lower clergy in order of rank down to altar servers, followed by laymen in order of rank, and laywomen in order of rank, then children. I'm not sure when the emperor communed, probably after the priests and before the other laity.
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
mike
Warned
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,536


« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2010, 01:25:44 PM »

At my Parish these are the little kids that go first as they gather in front of the royal doors since the 'Our Father'.
Logged
Rosehip
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Posts: 2,760



« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2010, 01:29:00 PM »

At my parish, the babies and then children commune first, followed by the elderly/infirm. After that everyone else follows. Often the men go ahead of the ladies-I've struggled a bit with this-it seems a bit patriarchal.
Logged

+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +
LBK
No Reporting Allowed
Warned
Toumarches
************
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 11,622


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2010, 01:29:29 PM »

1. those who have been newly-baptised and are to receive their first communion.

2 (or 1, if there are no newly-baptised). Babies and small children, in ascending order of age (babies first, then toddlers - and, if they are also communing, their parent, Godparent or whoever is in charge of accompanying and holding the baby or tot), then older children.

3. Everyone else, irrespective of age, sex or "social standing". Those who are frail or restricted in mobility are usually happily allowed to "jump the queue" by the others when there's a large number lining up.

Never come across any instance of the priest's wife communing first in my long experience of Greek and Russian practice. In some parishes I've come across, the priest's wife will often commune last of all.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 01:30:31 PM by LBK » Logged
Subdeacon Michael
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Posts: 195



« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2010, 01:48:34 PM »

I can't claim any authority for this order but i'm just sharing how I've seen it done.

In the altar:
  • bishops in canonical order
  • priests in canonical order
  • deacons in canonical order (receiving the Precious Body at the same time as priests but the Blood afterwards)

Then, outside the altar:
  • the newly-illumined, if there are any
  • subdeacons in canonical order
  • readers in canonical order
  • monks (who are not ordained)
  • nuns
  • children
  • adults

On one occasion, when serving away from Home Parish, I was asked to receive communion at the Holy Table but I have been unable to find anybody else who is familiar with this custom.

M
« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 01:50:47 PM by Subdeacon Michael » Logged

'There is nothing upon earth holier, higher, grander, more solemn, more life-giving than the Liturgy. The church, at this particular time, becomes an earthly heaven; those who officiate represent Christ Himself, the angels, the cherubim, seraphim and apostles.' - St John of Kronstadt
augustin717
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: The other ROC
Posts: 5,636



« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2010, 01:57:42 PM »

Men commune before women back home.
Logged
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,975


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2010, 02:01:26 PM »

I can't claim any authority for this order but i'm just sharing how I've seen it done.

In the altar:
  • bishops in canonical order
  • priests in canonical order
  • deacons in canonical order (receiving the Precious Body at the same time as priests but the Blood afterwards)

Then, outside the altar:
  • the newly-illumined, if there are any
  • subdeacons in canonical order
  • readers in canonical order
  • monks (who are not ordained)
  • nuns
  • children
  • adults

On one occasion, when serving away from Home Parish, I was asked to receive communion at the Holy Table but I have been unable to find anybody else who is familiar with this custom.

M

The Western Rite (Antiochians, at least) will commune subdeacons in the altar, but I haven't heard of this happening in Eastern Rite. Although, I was doing double duty as chanter and altar server, and Father told me to stand on the north side of the altar. It felt awkward.
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
Schultz
Christian. Guitarist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,494


Scion of the McKeesport Becks.


WWW
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2010, 02:10:45 PM »

In our parish, the first to commune is the widowed matushka of our previous pastor and anyone else who is too infirmed to walk to the ambo area, followed by the children who take care of the post-communion wine/bread table.  Then it's just by row (we have pews).
Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
Subdeacon Michael
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Posts: 195



« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2010, 02:14:19 PM »

...followed by the children who take care of the post-communion wine/bread table...

That's a really good idea. Without going into the uninteresting history, we are looking at changing the way we do the zapivka but one of the problems has been staffing it.  It never occurred to me to get some of the children involved.

Thank you for this.

M
Logged

'There is nothing upon earth holier, higher, grander, more solemn, more life-giving than the Liturgy. The church, at this particular time, becomes an earthly heaven; those who officiate represent Christ Himself, the angels, the cherubim, seraphim and apostles.' - St John of Kronstadt
thetraditionalfrog
Traditional Frog
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 197



« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2010, 02:21:19 PM »

My parish follows the same procedure that Subdeacon Michael posted. The only difference is that usually the children commune with their families rather than before.
Logged

“For the honorable Cross and golden freedom!” -Sv Lazar

 “Give up everything for Christ, but Christ for nothing!” -Sv Sava
Tikhon.of.Colorado
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 2,363



« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2010, 02:24:06 PM »

in my parish, the Bishop, the Deacon, The Priest.  Then, of the laity, the Altar servers are first, then the babies come up with their parents, then the little kids, and after that it's a mixture of teenagers, elderly, and the adults.  useually choir members without choldren go last.
Logged

"It is true that I am not always faithful, but I never lose courage, I leave myself in the Arms of Our Lord." - St. Thérèse of Lisieux
Tikhon.of.Colorado
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 2,363



« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2010, 02:27:15 PM »

At my parish, the babies and then children commune first, followed by the elderly/infirm. After that everyone else follows. Often the men go ahead of the ladies-I've struggled a bit with this-it seems a bit patriarchal.
hmm... Angry  in my parish, we prefer the "ladies first" method when the laity go up.
Logged

"It is true that I am not always faithful, but I never lose courage, I leave myself in the Arms of Our Lord." - St. Thérèse of Lisieux
Schultz
Christian. Guitarist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,494


Scion of the McKeesport Becks.


WWW
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2010, 02:41:31 PM »

...followed by the children who take care of the post-communion wine/bread table...

That's a really good idea. Without going into the uninteresting history, we are looking at changing the way we do the zapivka but one of the problems has been staffing it.  It never occurred to me to get some of the children involved.

Thank you for this.

M

you're quite welcome!  i've always liked the way we do it, especially when you get to see someone do it for the first time.  she (it's usually the girls who do this because the boys are serving @ the altar) is always beaming.
Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
AWR
Greetings from the Southern Jersey Shore.
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 240


Expelled from Paradise


WWW
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2010, 02:47:36 PM »

If this is a survey, I'll have to say my parish is very small and informal.  No set way, but usually the alter servers, then  newly baptized if there is one, then little kids, then babies being held by adults, then just anyone else.   Choir  members kind of merge into  line  because they come from the side.
Logged
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,975


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2010, 02:48:27 PM »

At my church, the napkin holders go last.
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
scamandrius
Crusher of Secrets; House Lannister
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: I'm Greek and proud of it, damn it!
Posts: 6,279



« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2010, 03:03:05 PM »

From all the responses, it seems that there is no traditional standing for the priest's wife to automatically be the first to commune among the laity.  A Khoriya I know almost seems to hold on to that "privilege" very jealously.  As for children communing  first, I remember when Metropolitan CHRISTOPHER of the Serbian Church came to town, he had all the children come up first to receive the Eucharist and thought that was great.  I know that the order doesn't really amount to much, I just asked because some people really seem to get bent of shape if their "place" is somehow not "respected" by others.
Logged

I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene
Schultz
Christian. Guitarist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,494


Scion of the McKeesport Becks.


WWW
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2010, 03:18:54 PM »

As a note, I would add that the widowed matushka at my parish communes first largely because she sits up front and uses a walker; having her commune first gets her walker out of the way, so to speak.

When our pastor's wife is in town (she still lives in Kentucky), she is usually in the middle somewhere and communes with the rest of us.
Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
Cymbyz
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
Posts: 496



« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2010, 03:39:32 PM »

Quote
In the altar:

bishops in canonical order
priests in canonical order
deacons in canonical order (receiving the Precious Body at the same time as priests but the Blood afterwards)

Then, outside the altar:

the newly-illumined, if there are any
subdeacons in canonical order
readers in canonical order
monks (who are not ordained)
nuns
children
adults

In my (GOA) parish, where we have pews, we use the above order, with the following variations, some for reasons of local economy:
     Monks and Nuns are communed after major clergy outside the altar.
     Minor clergy
     Choir
     Young children & church school teachers & pupils, taken row by row.
     Everyone else, taken row by row.
     Serving ushers, then napkin-holcers.

During the "regular season," we have at least two priests to serve Communion.  Needless to say, for a parish like ours, you have to have a staff of well-trained ushers to enforce and manage the taxis.
Logged

The end of the world
is as near as the day of your death;
watch and pray.
 
 Yahoo! & WLM ID: Owen
kansas city
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Serbian
Posts: 192



« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2010, 04:06:32 PM »

While it's interesting to hear how other parishes and traditions might proceed to Communion, I would encourage the original poster not to worry about anyone else's sense of primacy.  Most especially at the moment before The Body and The Blood are received.
Logged
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 7,006



« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2010, 04:14:09 PM »

In my OCA parish:
- The newly illumined
- Monks and nuns
- The folks ho are serving the agape meal after the Liturgy (if they so wish)
- The elder ladies and the young girls who staff the post communion tables (including the commemorations). They have more than one per table so that they can take turns.
- The babies and young children
- Everybody else
- Napkin holders (often the sub-deacons pull this duty)
NOTES:
1. The elderly, infirm and choir members go into the line whenever they wish/is convenient. If somebody is to infirm, communion is brought to him.
2. No precedence by gender.
Logged

Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
Nyssa The Hobbit
Used to be OrthodoxFairyQueen
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian as of 1/10/09
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 396



WWW
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2010, 01:48:35 AM »

I've never noticed an order at our church.  People just go up when they go up, front pews all the way back.
Logged

Author of "Tojet" (fantasy) and "The Lighthouse" (Gothic), info available at my website URL.
ag_vn
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Posts: 409



« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2010, 03:37:18 AM »

1. Children

2. Men

3. Women

The same order for the distribution of the antidoron.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2010, 03:38:24 AM by ag_vn » Logged
arimethea
Getting too old for this
Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Antioch
Posts: 2,968


Does anyone really care what you think?


« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2010, 03:48:46 PM »

What I find interesting is the number of monastics in parish settings and that they are treated any differently then the laity.
Logged

Joseph
ytterbiumanalyst
Professor Emeritus, CSA
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 8,790



« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2010, 05:01:08 PM »

In my parish (OCA):

Newly illumined
Choir (so they can return in time to prepare for the next song in the Liturgy)
Everyone else (including my priest's family and our monastics)
Napkin holders
Logged

"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,146


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2010, 05:56:29 PM »

When we bring Communion out, people receive in no particular order (other than front to back, generally).

Now antidoron is a different story: Parish Council & Narthex ushers/greeters, followed by the Choir, followed by the congregation.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2010, 05:56:46 PM by Fr. George » Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
Cymbyz
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
Posts: 496



« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2010, 09:46:43 PM »

At St. Anthony's Monastery, they have a very strict taxis:  when the priest brings out Communion, the monks partake, in order of seniority, then, visiting monks, visiting nuns, laymen, and laywomen.
Logged

The end of the world
is as near as the day of your death;
watch and pray.
 
 Yahoo! & WLM ID: Owen
arimethea
Getting too old for this
Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Antioch
Posts: 2,968


Does anyone really care what you think?


« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2010, 10:57:08 PM »

At St. Anthony's Monastery, they have a very strict taxis:  when the priest brings out Communion, the monks partake, in order of seniority, then, visiting monks, visiting nuns, laymen, and laywomen.
That is fine because that is a monastery but it seems most people are talking about parish settings. I don't understand why there are monastics as part of a parish and if they are why are they given preference over any of the other laity since there is no difference between a monk a lay person.
Logged

Joseph
serb1389
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom!
Global Moderator
Merarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 8,456


Michał Kalina's biggest fan

FrNPantic
WWW
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2010, 11:15:35 PM »

I don't think that, in practice today, there is an order. But, if I were to make one up from traditional practices of hierarchy in Orthodoxy, it would be, after the higher clergy, then the lower clergy in order of rank down to altar servers, followed by laymen in order of rank, and laywomen in order of rank, then children. I'm not sure when the emperor communed, probably after the priests and before the other laity.

YUP! You're right about this.  Exactly right...actually.  Canon 69 of Penthekte.  I don't have access to it, but I did a project on it so I can reference it briefly. 
Logged

I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that
Subdeacon Michael
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Posts: 195



« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2010, 01:39:04 AM »

CCEL is your friend.

I don't understand why there are monastics as part of a parish and if they are why are they given preference over any of the other laity since there is no difference between a monk a lay person.

It isn't uncommon for monastics to receive Communion outside of a monastery.  I have seen it now a few times: at a Pan-Orthodox pilgrimage where a monk was present at the Liturgy, when the Kursk Root Icon visited a parish and some nuns from a nearby monastery came to the Liturgy, at a diocesan conference which was attended by a nun from the diocese, and in one case as a weekly arrangement when, for reasons I needn't go into here, a nun was given a blessing by her abbess to live under obedience to the monastery but separately (in a different country, in fact), with somebody assigned as her cell attendant - they both came to my parish.

On the secnd point, are monastics really no different from non-monastics?  They may not be clergy - this is true - but is the clergy/laity distinction the only one recognised within the Orthodox Church?  Just as the clerical tonsure immediately prior to ordination as a reader calls a man apart for a different degree of obedience and a higher responsibility as far as the canons go, it could be argued that the monastic tonsure has the same effect for a man or woman as far as the monastic life goes.  I have read that some even consider this a Mystery, akin to ordination.  Whether this means monastics ought to receive Communion before the rest of the laity, I don't know, and it isn't something over which I would go to the stake, but I'm just not sure we can say with such certainly that there is no difference between a monk and a layperson.

In Christ,
M
Logged

'There is nothing upon earth holier, higher, grander, more solemn, more life-giving than the Liturgy. The church, at this particular time, becomes an earthly heaven; those who officiate represent Christ Himself, the angels, the cherubim, seraphim and apostles.' - St John of Kronstadt
JLatimer
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Posts: 1,202



« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2010, 08:59:16 PM »

At my parish, the babies and then children commune first, followed by the elderly/infirm. After that everyone else follows. Often the men go ahead of the ladies-I've struggled a bit with this-it seems a bit patriarchal.
Orthodoxy is patriarchal, no?
Logged

1 Samuel 25:22 (KJV)
So and more also do God unto the enemies of David, if I leave of all that pertain to him by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall.
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 7,006



« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2010, 09:40:45 PM »

At my parish, the babies and then children commune first, followed by the elderly/infirm. After that everyone else follows. Often the men go ahead of the ladies-I've struggled a bit with this-it seems a bit patriarchal.
Orthodoxy is patriarchal, no?

But, this is a rather crude way to make the point.
Logged

Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
JLatimer
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Posts: 1,202



« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2010, 09:50:40 PM »

At my parish, the babies and then children commune first, followed by the elderly/infirm. After that everyone else follows. Often the men go ahead of the ladies-I've struggled a bit with this-it seems a bit patriarchal.
Orthodoxy is patriarchal, no?

But, this is a rather crude way to make the point.

Don't get me wrong, in my opinion if you're a man and you think to yourself, "hey, I'm not about to let a WOMAN go in line for communion before ME!" then that's well... really screwed up. Missing the point lol. In my parish, laymen and laywomen go to communion all mixed in. I've never even given it second thought.

But I wouldn't mind going to a church where women stand on the left, men on the right, and men go first for communion, as long as it was just a traditional "the way we've always done it" practice and not based on ego, or people trying to impose something artificially from the top.
Logged

1 Samuel 25:22 (KJV)
So and more also do God unto the enemies of David, if I leave of all that pertain to him by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall.
serb1389
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom!
Global Moderator
Merarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 8,456


Michał Kalina's biggest fan

FrNPantic
WWW
« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2010, 02:28:53 AM »

CCEL is your friend.

I don't understand why there are monastics as part of a parish and if they are why are they given preference over any of the other laity since there is no difference between a monk a lay person.

It isn't uncommon for monastics to receive Communion outside of a monastery.  I have seen it now a few times: at a Pan-Orthodox pilgrimage where a monk was present at the Liturgy, when the Kursk Root Icon visited a parish and some nuns from a nearby monastery came to the Liturgy, at a diocesan conference which was attended by a nun from the diocese, and in one case as a weekly arrangement when, for reasons I needn't go into here, a nun was given a blessing by her abbess to live under obedience to the monastery but separately (in a different country, in fact), with somebody assigned as her cell attendant - they both came to my parish.

On the secnd point, are monastics really no different from non-monastics?  They may not be clergy - this is true - but is the clergy/laity distinction the only one recognised within the Orthodox Church?  Just as the clerical tonsure immediately prior to ordination as a reader calls a man apart for a different degree of obedience and a higher responsibility as far as the canons go, it could be argued that the monastic tonsure has the same effect for a man or woman as far as the monastic life goes.  I have read that some even consider this a Mystery, akin to ordination.  Whether this means monastics ought to receive Communion before the rest of the laity, I don't know, and it isn't something over which I would go to the stake, but I'm just not sure we can say with such certainly that there is no difference between a monk and a layperson.

In Christ,
M

Thank you!  I wish I had thought of that...lol. 

Also, I think that I would begin answering this question from a canonical perspective.  If you look at the canons, their commentaries are almost always grouped (Ralli & Potli, etc.) into three basic groups.  Canons regarding Priests (clergy), Monks (both ordained and not), and lay people.  So, the short answer is that they ARE considered a unique part of the church and are treated thus by the canons. 

That's the short of it. 
Logged

I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that
mildert
Deacon Philip
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Russian Orthodox Churches in Western Europe - Exarchate of the Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 113


« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2010, 11:29:02 AM »

I can't claim any authority for this order but i'm just sharing how I've seen it done.

In the altar:
  • bishops in canonical order
  • priests in canonical order
  • deacons in canonical order (receiving the Precious Body at the same time as priests but the Blood afterwards)

Then, outside the altar:
  • the newly-illumined, if there are any
  • subdeacons in canonical order
  • readers in canonical order
  • monks (who are not ordained)
  • nuns
  • children
  • adults

On one occasion, when serving away from Home Parish, I was asked to receive communion at the Holy Table but I have been unable to find anybody else who is familiar with this custom.

M

Dear Subdeacon Michael,

I have also seen in a number of places those in the Altar (subdeacons, readers and servers) communed in the Altar before the Gifts are brought out.

In XC,

Deacon Philip
Logged

In XC,

Deacon Philip
Curtistim
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 2


« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2010, 12:13:52 PM »

Maybe the same ordering should be used as in the altar, but as if seen in a mirror- I.e. Everyone goes strictly in order to baptism/Chrismation, the most newly illumined first to the oldest. Then no egos or gender or nationality or any other distraction can be allowed to creep in?
Logged
Subdeacon Michael
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Posts: 195



« Reply #36 on: September 16, 2010, 12:38:31 PM »

Maybe the same ordering should be used as in the altar, but as if seen in a mirror- I.e. Everyone goes strictly in order to baptism/Chrismation, the most newly illumined first to the oldest. Then no egos or gender or nationality or any other distraction can be allowed to creep in?

Theoretically, very sensible.  Logistically, too complicated to even countenance.  Smiley

Thank you, Deacon Phillip. I was actually thinking about this a little more recently and I think it must have started for practical reasons.  The simple fact of the matter is that it is quite impossible for subdeacons to perform their role at Communion in a dignified fashion and see to all of the appurtenances of receiving Communion without sacrificing something.  They will not be able to assist with the houseling cloth and trikiri-dikiri until after they have received, and even if they receive first outside the altar and then immediately assist with the cloth, they cannot partake of the zapivka until after they have received.  It seems hierarchically improper for us to receive at the Holy Table but practically, it makes a great deal of sense.

In Christ,
M
« Last Edit: September 16, 2010, 12:39:00 PM by Subdeacon Michael » Logged

'There is nothing upon earth holier, higher, grander, more solemn, more life-giving than the Liturgy. The church, at this particular time, becomes an earthly heaven; those who officiate represent Christ Himself, the angels, the cherubim, seraphim and apostles.' - St John of Kronstadt
Curtistim
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 2


« Reply #37 on: September 16, 2010, 04:42:44 PM »

Well, we wouldn't need to be pharisiacal about it, but some form of order in terms of age is sufficient.
Logged
serb1389
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom!
Global Moderator
Merarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 8,456


Michał Kalina's biggest fan

FrNPantic
WWW
« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2010, 08:44:02 PM »

I can't claim any authority for this order but i'm just sharing how I've seen it done.

In the altar:
  • bishops in canonical order
  • priests in canonical order
  • deacons in canonical order (receiving the Precious Body at the same time as priests but the Blood afterwards)

Then, outside the altar:
  • the newly-illumined, if there are any
  • subdeacons in canonical order
  • readers in canonical order
  • monks (who are not ordained)
  • nuns
  • children
  • adults

On one occasion, when serving away from Home Parish, I was asked to receive communion at the Holy Table but I have been unable to find anybody else who is familiar with this custom.

M

Dear Subdeacon Michael,

I have also seen in a number of places those in the Altar (subdeacons, readers and servers) communed in the Altar before the Gifts are brought out.

In XC,

Deacon Philip

Would you care to comment as to where you have seen this?  You can leave it general if you want, like "america" or "greek church"  but I would love to know! 
Logged

I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that
mike
Warned
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,536


« Reply #39 on: September 17, 2010, 03:28:51 AM »

I was offered once to participate in 'finishing' the Eucharist after It had been taken back to the altar. I was 6 - 8.
Logged
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 33,153


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #40 on: September 17, 2010, 04:56:54 AM »

As regards age order in my parish: Usually children commune with their parents as whole families commune together.  Within a family, the kids will usually receive first.

As regards choir members:  We usually just cut in line, but nobody minds.  The only rule we follow here is our choir director's suggestion that we not all go at once to receive--pace out our departure from the choir to join the Communion line so that we always have part of the choir singing at any given moment.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2010, 04:59:43 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
mildert
Deacon Philip
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Russian Orthodox Churches in Western Europe - Exarchate of the Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 113


« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2010, 06:55:48 AM »

I can't claim any authority for this order but i'm just sharing how I've seen it done.

In the altar:
  • bishops in canonical order
  • priests in canonical order
  • deacons in canonical order (receiving the Precious Body at the same time as priests but the Blood afterwards)

Then, outside the altar:
  • the newly-illumined, if there are any
  • subdeacons in canonical order
  • readers in canonical order
  • monks (who are not ordained)
  • nuns
  • children
  • adults

On one occasion, when serving away from Home Parish, I was asked to receive communion at the Holy Table but I have been unable to find anybody else who is familiar with this custom.

M

Dear Subdeacon Michael,

I have also seen in a number of places those in the Altar (subdeacons, readers and servers) communed in the Altar before the Gifts are brought out.

In XC,

Deacon Philip

Would you care to comment as to where you have seen this?  You can leave it general if you want, like "america" or "greek church"  but I would love to know! 

Actually in Russia.  In large Churches there may be a lot of servers and other assisting at the Altar, so for practical reason, rather than have everyone march outside at the Communion, they are given the Communion at the Altar but in the same was as all Laity i.e. with the spoon from the Chalice.

In XC

Deacon Philip
Logged

In XC,

Deacon Philip
Dart
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 655


« Reply #42 on: October 05, 2010, 09:16:57 PM »

I was offered once to participate in 'finishing' the Eucharist after It had been taken back to the altar. I was 6 - 8.

I have only seen the Priest do this. Who is allowed to handle the chalice?
Logged
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Posts: 30,501



« Reply #43 on: October 05, 2010, 10:33:02 PM »

Following bishops and priests, on "regular" Sundays, who of the laity communes first?  Is it tradition that the priest's wife communes first or is that just made up? 

Where I go, it's whoever is sitting in the the front row of one of the two middle sections Smiley
Logged

"By the way he dies as a human being he shows us what it is to be God." - Fr. John Behr
mike
Warned
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,536


« Reply #44 on: October 06, 2010, 12:36:35 PM »

I was offered once to participate in 'finishing' the Eucharist after It had been taken back to the altar. I was 6 - 8.

I have only seen the Priest do this. Who is allowed to handle the chalice?

It might have been "uncanonical" a bit.
Logged
mildert
Deacon Philip
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Russian Orthodox Churches in Western Europe - Exarchate of the Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 113


« Reply #45 on: October 06, 2010, 01:05:42 PM »

I was offered once to participate in 'finishing' the Eucharist after It had been taken back to the altar. I was 6 - 8.

I have only seen the Priest do this. Who is allowed to handle the chalice?

It is the "job" of the (most junior) Deacon to consume the gifts and cleanse the Chalice, if no Deacon is present then it is the Priest who does this.

Normally only Deacons, Priests and Bishops can touch the Chalice and Diskos.

In XC,

Deacon Philip
Logged

In XC,

Deacon Philip
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,146


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #46 on: October 06, 2010, 01:16:52 PM »

I was offered once to participate in 'finishing' the Eucharist after It had been taken back to the altar. I was 6 - 8.

I have only seen the Priest do this. Who is allowed to handle the chalice?

It might have been "uncanonical" a bit.

Or, your participation may have been to read the prayers of Thanksgiving; I've seen that happen before, where young men of the parish are invited to read the prayers of Thanksgiving for the priest/deacon as he consumes, both as a service to the clergyman, and also to expose the fellow to the beauty of the prayers.
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
Tags:
Pages: 1 2 All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.148 seconds with 74 queries.