Author Topic: Most Orthodox-oriented Byzantine Catholic church you've ever been to  (Read 3513 times)

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Offline The young fogey

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Recently on Usenet I thanked the post-er who gave the URL for the story on Russian rural life I reposted here, mentioning there I'd spread it here. There was some criticism from someone there that this site is co-administered by Catholics, which Orthodoc and I answered, and one of the things this person mentioned was our logo taken from St Elias Church in Brampton, Ontario, Canada.

I took another look at that church's site and was wowed. A very, very Orthodox-oriented Byzantine Catholic church indeed.

While I've never been there, I'd put it on a list of the most Orthodox-oriented Byzantine Catholic churches in North America.

Others would include:

St Michael's Russian Catholic Church in SoHo, New York City. You can read about it and find an URL for it on the Faith page of my site. The only thing that distinguishes this church's practice from the Russian Orthodox is that inexplicably they are on the Western paschalion. A sweet, homey kind of place, very small, totally orthodox liturgically and AFAIK in their teachings, with a dedicated congregation of non-Russian born Catholics who love everything Russian Orthodox.

AFAIK any Russian Catholic church in the US (there are three of them) would go on this list and they are made up of congregations pretty much like St Michael's. Our Lady of Fatima in San Francisco, despite its un-Orthodox name, uses the Orthodox paschalion and OCA menaion. Writer Lee Penn, whom you can read on my site, is a member.

The Melkites would be on the list too. In my experience I'd include Holy Transfiguration Church in McLean, Va., in the D.C. suburbs. Like St Michael's they may be on the Western paschalion but there are no pews and no other latinizations in sight.

Orthodox-oriented places are rare among Ruthenians but I can think of two such places, Holy Resurrection Monastery in the Mojave Desert in California and SS. Cyril & Methodius Church in Cary, N.C. (with the caveat that many/most of its people don't identify with the Orthodox). Dan Lauffer's church would make the list, but alas, pews. :)

One can only hope that the Pope doesn't intend to ruin these places by 'aggiornamentizing' them: the unkindest cut of all after they so successfully have resisted latinization.

It's only fair that there'd be similar lists for least Orthodox-oriented Catholic churches and even for most westernized Orthodox churches.

The only horror stories I can think of firsthand are two iconostasis-less Ukrainian Catholic places of worship, one a broom-closet-sized college chapel, the other a moribund Pennsylvania church. As for the latter, there are the Greeks: pews and organs.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2002, 11:51:04 PM by Serge »
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Offline Dan Lauffer

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Re:Most Orthodox-oriented Byzantine Catholic church you've ever been to
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2002, 11:41:36 PM »
Alas, this is true and we don't do much holy kissing either.  We are working on changing both.

"Dan Lauffer's church would make the list, but alas, pews. "

Dan Lauffer :-[


Offline Nigula Qian Zishi

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Re:Most Orthodox-oriented Byzantine Catholic church you've ever been to
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2002, 11:46:33 PM »
Although you've never been there, I would be apt to agree, St. Elias is the most Orthodox-oriented church I have ever been to in my life - they even follow the old calendar there as well! Other than commemorating the Pope, you might think you were in a traditional Orthodox Church.
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Offline Mudriy

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Re:Most Orthodox-oriented Byzantine Catholic church you've ever been to
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2002, 12:10:08 AM »
I have been to St. Elias and I would have to agree that is the most Orthodox-oriented Catholic church around. Their services are very reminicesnt (sic?) of the typical village liturgy I went to in Ukraine.

Others include:
-St. Nicholas UC Church in Toronto (where My Big Fat Greek Wedding was filmed.)
-Sts. Volodymyr and Olha in Chicago
-UC Mission of Ukiah, CA, down the hill from the monastery, no pews and the whole nine yards, and Fr. David Anderson is pastor (former OCA priest)
-St. Sofia UC Sobor built in Rome. One of the most beautiful churches I have been to in my life. All mosaic, no paint. All gold and marble floors, no pews, very impressive, built by the late Joseph Slypiy.
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Offline the slave

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Re:Most Orthodox-oriented Byzantine Catholic church you've ever been to
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2002, 05:34:42 AM »
How about the Ukrainian Church in Lourdes ?

Agreed tiny - but no pews [ yes benches against the walls, and about a dozen uncomfortable folding chairs to allow for pilgrimage groups to have services there]

The walls are covered with paintings , though I personally do not like the depiction of Our Lady behind the altar [ too modern for me !!]

Oh and no confessional and ,needless to say no organ ,though there is a small gallery which was filled to overflowing in October

I love it and spend a lot of time there. :D
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Offline Josaphat

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Re:Most Orthodox-oriented Byzantine Catholic church you've ever been to
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2002, 06:54:29 PM »
Yes.  Saint Elias is pretty Orthodox-oriented.  They do all the Katavasia -- all the time, unlike any ROCOR church. ::)  An OCA Protodeacon came to the parish and said that it was the best OCA church in all of Canada.

However, the most Orthodox-oriented Catholic Church in the world would be the Church of Saint Anthony in Rome.  They are pretty much ROCOR, except they are all Catholic, and no one is Russian but they do everything in Church Slavonic and have a superb choir.

Josaphat

Offline Robert

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Re:Most Orthodox-oriented Byzantine Catholic church you've ever been to
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2002, 08:07:40 PM »
Hi Josephat,

I spent many times in liturgy at Sant'Antonio Abate all'Esquilino in Roma. It is the church right next to the Russicum, which is the house of Russian studies. People have many varying theories as to why the Russicum existed, although it seems to be dying out now.

While a beautiful church, with a slavonic liturgy, and an oft times excellent choir, the church really lacks the spirit that most Russian churches seem to contain. There is generally a very small congregation, with non-ethnics, and a few latinizations. I felt much more at home at the Moscow Patriarchate church that isn't too far from there.

I might have some pictures that I took of it, I'll see if I can dig them up.

Bobby

Offline Josaphat

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Re:Most Orthodox-oriented Byzantine Catholic church you've ever been to
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2002, 10:43:57 PM »
True, it is pretty much always empty.

Josaphat