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Antonious Nikolas
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« Reply #45 on: July 16, 2010, 06:30:45 PM »

You're overstating your case.  The Father doesn't have to return to judge us for us to use accurate terminology.

For the third time, I'm not saying you have to believe what I believe.  I'm simply telling you the definition of the term "Tewahedo Orthodox".

You asked me to show you that my information on this topic is accurate?  Okay, here it is:

http://www.ethiopianorthodox.org/english/indexenglish.html

The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church's official website.

Here is their definition of faith, exactly as I described it:

http://www.ethiopianorthodox.org/english/faith.html

The definition of the term Tewahedo:

Tewahedo is a Ge'ez word meaning "being made one" or "unified" and is a reference ti the united nature of Christ.

Regarding the Person of Jesus Christ also there have been serious discussions in Ethiopia. But the Church holds to the view that He is God the Son in His incarnate state. Born of God the Father eternally as God the Son, He was born of the Virgin Mother as a real man. There are a number of affirmations in the Anaphora regarding Him, some of which may be noted here.

1.Jesus Christ was born of Our Lady Mary for our salvation. He who does not believe in His birth from Holy Mary, let him be anathema.

2. In this way, after being conceived in the womb of the Virgin, God the Son was born as a man. By His conception, God the Son became incarnate “taking our nature.” The Son who is born of the Father without a mother, was born as a man without a Father. “He put on mortal flesh and made it immortal,” and He came truly into the world “clothed in the body which He took from us.”

3. His human birth was a unique event, whereby God the Son “came down through the will of His Father” and was made man. “His humanity was not inferior because He had no Father to be born of His seed.” This is incarnation, whereby God the Son entered the historical realm in order to save it forever.

4. In the Incarnation, God the Son united to Himself manhood and “made it one with his Godhead without mixture or confusion, without division or alternation.” Therefore, “His Godhead was not separated from His manhood, not for an hour, nor for the twinkling of an eye.”

5. God the Son came to us “without being separated from His Godhead.” After being born, “He grew like an infant, and grew little by little until He matured like a man. At the age of thirty He was baptized in the Jordan.” He was tempted by the devil; “He hungered and thirsted,” He went about “preaching the gospel of the kingdom of Heaven.” By this, who is perfect like God the Father and is His image walked among us in our image.

6. He suffered passion and death voluntarily on our behalf and for our sakes. He became hungry as man, and granted food to many with very little bread. He thirsted as a man who dies, but changed water into wine as being able to give life to all.


The definition of the term Orthodox:

Orthodox is a Greek term meaning "correct praise" or "correct faith".

So we don't pull these terms out of thin air and define them as we like and it's all relative.  No one is judging you, just asking that you be accurate.

Peace & Love
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« Reply #46 on: July 16, 2010, 06:33:18 PM »

So because it does not correlate with what you say or the church it is inaccurate?  Well I guess I truelly have fell short of the glory
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« Reply #47 on: July 16, 2010, 06:39:31 PM »

Haile Selassie was of the Church. He was devoted to the life of Christ in the Church.

The Church is the community that God has formed in the world for Himself and for the salvation of the world. To be apart from the Church is to be apart from the life of God.

Once again, it is not a matter of your personal opinion and my/our personal opinion. It is only and always a matter of having the mind of Christ formed by life in the Church of Christ, the Orthodox Church.

If anyone's opinions are different to those of the Church then their spiritual life is diminished. This is why we ask you to consider the teaching of the Church, a teaching which comes from Christ Himself through His Apostles.

No other opinions matter, no other teaching has any authority at all.

My own opinions are as nothing compared to the constant and ancient teaching of the Church. This is why we are not contradicting you with our own opinions, but we are pointing out that what you teach is not the Tewahedo faith and is not the faith of H.I.M.

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« Reply #48 on: July 16, 2010, 06:42:11 PM »

Well Beloved since you have correlated this issue with the elders of the church and H.I.M. and they gave you their response to the statements made then I guess I stand corrected. Se'lah
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« Reply #49 on: July 16, 2010, 06:44:50 PM »

The ancient teaching of the EOTC is clear, and it is also clear that H.I.M. was a committed and devoted member of the EOTC. Therefore if we wish to have the same faith as H.I.M. we must embrace the teaching of the EOTC, which is neither hard to discover nor difficult to experience, as others have already pointed out that there are EOTC congregations not far from you.

The Church which H.I.M. belonged to is the proper place to begin to understand what he believed.

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« Reply #50 on: July 16, 2010, 06:46:26 PM »

Give Thanks oh supreme and knowledgible one. Se'lah
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« Reply #51 on: July 16, 2010, 06:48:53 PM »

So because it does not correlate with what you say or the church it is inaccurate?  Well I guess I truelly have fell short of the glory

Brother, at this point, you've reduced the discussion to the point where it's no longer even about dogma or theology, it's about simple definition.

I can't say "automobile" means a man with a hat because that's what I want it to mean.

I can't say "dinosaur" means a tube station in West London because someone taught me wrong.

And I can't say you're judging me or assigning me to the pit or acting omnipotent if you correct me on my terminology.

Tewahedo doesn't mean "the ones of the divine and all things IN the FATHER".

Orthodox doesn't mean "tradition, custom, ancientcy".

Not because that's not how WE define it, but simply because that's not the definition of the word.  No one is judging you.  Just asking you to be accurate.
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« Reply #52 on: July 16, 2010, 06:51:08 PM »

Se'lah
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« Reply #53 on: July 16, 2010, 07:00:23 PM »

wow I have the whole website in an uproar.  Do I need to remove myself.  As a humble man Im not here to be offensive but it seems that everyone is very defensive which I was not even though your views are very different from mine.  Do I need to humbly and respectfully bow out? I just want to study and praise the Father.
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« Reply #54 on: July 16, 2010, 07:19:32 PM »

That is for you to decide, brother.  You don't have the website in an uproar because you believe differently.  What you're doing really isn't fair.  You're using inaccurate terms, and then if someone asks you to be accurate, you say they're judging you or being self-righteous when this really isn't the case.  Why are you insisting on doing this?  You and I were having a nice conversation until you took this tact.
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« Reply #55 on: July 16, 2010, 07:50:19 PM »

We can have a conversation as long as we can respect each others views and not try to tear them apart.  Not one time have I questioned what anyone here has said or tried to correct them in any way even though what you say is different from what I've learned. I have had no reproofs. I simply answered the question to the best of my knowledge and everyone here has basically said in so many ways im not making since, its not correlating all types of stuff but hey like I said before prey for me bredren.  As everyone here has stated indirectly I dont know what Im talking about so I really need it(prayer) Se'lah
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« Reply #56 on: July 16, 2010, 07:54:33 PM »

Honestly I dont see how we ever had a conversation.  we never discussed our information with each other.  I answered a topic and recieved responses from all angles about how what I said was confussing etc.  Everyone here has basically asked me in some form or another what am I talking about.  So if I make no sense why are we all still holding this discussion.  Shouldnt you all be preying for my lost soul, considering the fact that everyone feels that Im not of the church as well as going against the Church?
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« Reply #57 on: July 17, 2010, 11:00:49 AM »

I'm sure that everyone here is praying for you, as I hope you're praying for them, my weak self included.

And how can you say we weren't having a dialogue?  Look back at the thread.  We were indeed.  Whatever your interractions with others were, you and I were having a polite and constructive conversation.

Finally, if you truly insist that you can't see why people would be confused by your declaring yourself to be "Tewahedo Orthodox" and then espousing views that are the antithesis of those of a "Tewahedo Orthodox" person, then I must believe you're being willfully obtuse, as you couldn't possibly be that dense.

I can't say that I'm a Muslim and then say that a Muslim as I understand it recognizes the gods Ahura Mazda and Angra Mainyu and the prophet Zoroaster and not expect actual Muslims to take umbrage.
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« Reply #58 on: July 17, 2010, 09:16:33 PM »

I'm sure that everyone here is praying for you, as I hope you're praying for them, my weak self included.

And how can you say we weren't having a dialogue?  Look back at the thread.  We were indeed.  Whatever your interractions with others were, you and I were having a polite and constructive conversation.

Finally, if you truly insist that you can't see why people would be confused by your declaring yourself to be "Tewahedo Orthodox" and then espousing views that are the antithesis of those of a "Tewahedo Orthodox" person, then I must believe you're being willfully obtuse, as you couldn't possibly be that dense.

I can't say that I'm a Muslim and then say that a Muslim as I understand it recognizes the gods Ahura Mazda and Angra Mainyu and the prophet Zoroaster and not expect actual Muslims to take umbrage.


Bless'ed Love To All, 

A conversation is held between two people when there is discussion not a simple relay of your information to my own and how they correlate.  you never asked me after the stating of the info why and how I came to the summation I have but how it goes against what you and I guess everyone else here claims they know and believe to be so.  Sounds more like a debate to me... Se'lah
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« Reply #59 on: July 17, 2010, 09:22:59 PM »

Finally, if you truly insist that you can't see why people would be confused by your declaring yourself to be "Tewahedo Orthodox" and then espousing views that are the antithesis of those of a "Tewahedo Orthodox" person, then I must believe you're being willfully obtuse, as you couldn't possibly be that dense.
 

Bless'ed Love To All

 once again my profile does not say EOTC.  I know what orthodox means by definition.  I know what tewahido means by definition and I know what Judaism/Christianity means.  Now have I broken some type of rules on this site by stating this?  I can fix it.  This way no one will feel offended including myself....Se'lah
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« Reply #60 on: July 18, 2010, 10:13:32 AM »

I'm sure that everyone here is praying for you, as I hope you're praying for them, my weak self included.

And how can you say we weren't having a dialogue?  Look back at the thread.  We were indeed.  Whatever your interractions with others were, you and I were having a polite and constructive conversation.

Finally, if you truly insist that you can't see why people would be confused by your declaring yourself to be "Tewahedo Orthodox" and then espousing views that are the antithesis of those of a "Tewahedo Orthodox" person, then I must believe you're being willfully obtuse, as you couldn't possibly be that dense.

I can't say that I'm a Muslim and then say that a Muslim as I understand it recognizes the gods Ahura Mazda and Angra Mainyu and the prophet Zoroaster and not expect actual Muslims to take umbrage.


Bless'ed Love To All, 

A conversation is held between two people when there is discussion not a simple relay of your information to my own and how they correlate.  you never asked me after the stating of the info why and how I came to the summation I have but how it goes against what you and I guess everyone else here claims they know and believe to be so.  Sounds more like a debate to me... Se'lah

Brother, you're on an Orthodox Christian website.  Did you expect everyone here to say, "Hail the High Priest of the Melchizedek Order!  Thank you for coming to enlighten us with your newly minted wisdom.  We realize at last that 2000 years of Orthodox Christianity, the Faith that we received from Our God and Savior, has been a falsehood!"

But fine, allow me to ask, how did you come to the understanding you presently espouse?


Finally, if you truly insist that you can't see why people would be confused by your declaring yourself to be "Tewahedo Orthodox" and then espousing views that are the antithesis of those of a "Tewahedo Orthodox" person, then I must believe you're being willfully obtuse, as you couldn't possibly be that dense.
 

Bless'ed Love To All

 once again my profile does not say EOTC.  I know what orthodox means by definition.  I know what tewahido means by definition and I know what Judaism/Christianity means.  Now have I broken some type of rules on this site by stating this?  I can fix it.  This way no one will feel offended including myself....Se'lah

Now it seems as if you've learned the definition of these terms, and now no one will be confused, though in truth I don't believe that anyone was ever offended, except perhaps yourself.  If anyone did offend you by asking for clarity, I'm sure this wasn't their intention.
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« Reply #61 on: July 18, 2010, 01:42:56 PM »

Brother, you're on an Orthodox Christian website.  Did you expect everyone here to say, "Hail the High Priest of the Melchizedek Order!  Thank you for coming to enlighten us with your newly minted wisdom.  We realize at last that 2000 years of Orthodox Christianity, the Faith that we received from Our God and Savior, has been a falsehood!"

But fine, allow me to ask, how did you come to the understanding you presently espouse?

Bless'ed Love To All

  I thought this was website that consisted of people who believed in Christ....but hey maybe not
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« Reply #62 on: July 18, 2010, 01:49:55 PM »

Now it seems as if you've learned the definition of these terms, and now no one will be confused, though in truth I don't believe that anyone was ever offended, except perhaps yourself.  If anyone did offend you by asking for clarity, I'm sure this wasn't their intention.

Bless'ed Love To All

  Well bredren I guess you are keeping track of what Ive learned and what I knew before hand even though you know not what I speak of.    I never got offended but it seems that you as well as others have but anyway that doesnt matter and all of this debate about whose right and whose wrong will it save your soul?  will it save mine?  You spoke of the fact that the church is 2000 years old and their doctrine is incorrect.  I never said that you did. Neither did the info I related you did.   Also there was religion before Christ and they lived a little longer than 2000 years and they were wrong.  Not to say that the church is wrong or is not right however the bottom line is that no one in the church or any church has passed thru the veil to truely know that what they say is true and has been confirmed by the FAther,Son or Holy Spirit.  All we can do is hope that our Wrathfull Father will not condemn us for our iniquity and stupidity...Se'lah
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« Reply #63 on: July 18, 2010, 07:07:06 PM »

Did you expect everyone here to say, "Hail the High Priest of the Melchizedek Order!  Thank you for coming to enlighten us with your newly minted wisdom

Bless'ed Love To All,

No they already Hailed the Highest Ranking Melchizedek, Christ. You are welcome but the knowledge is not newly minted it is anciently inscribed....Se'lah
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« Reply #64 on: July 18, 2010, 07:24:06 PM »

Brother, you're on an Orthodox Christian website.  Did you expect everyone here to say, "Hail the High Priest of the Melchizedek Order!  Thank you for coming to enlighten us with your newly minted wisdom.  We realize at last that 2000 years of Orthodox Christianity, the Faith that we received from Our God and Savior, has been a falsehood!"

But fine, allow me to ask, how did you come to the understanding you presently espouse?

Bless'ed Love To All

  I thought this was website that consisted of people who believed in Christ....but hey maybe not

How does disagreeing with anything you've said constitute a lack of belief in Christ?  Especially when you’ve demonstrated that Christ ranks significantly lower in your cosmology than He does in ours?

Now it seems as if you've learned the definition of these terms, and now no one will be confused, though in truth I don't believe that anyone was ever offended, except perhaps yourself.  If anyone did offend you by asking for clarity, I'm sure this wasn't their intention.

Bless'ed Love To All

  Well bredren I guess you are keeping track of what Ive learned and what I knew before hand even though you know not what I speak of.    I never got offended but it seems that you as well as others have but anyway that doesnt matter and all of this debate about whose right and whose wrong will it save your soul?  will it save mine?  You spoke of the fact that the church is 2000 years old and their doctrine is incorrect.  I never said that you did. Neither did the info I related you did.   Also there was religion before Christ and they lived a little longer than 2000 years and they were wrong.  Not to say that the church is wrong or is not right however the bottom line is that no one in the church or any church has passed thru the veil to truely know that what they say is true and has been confirmed by the FAther,Son or Holy Spirit.  All we can do is hope that our Wrathfull Father will not condemn us for our iniquity and stupidity...Se'lah

Anyone who can read “knows of what they speak” here because they can see how you were defining the terms in question when you first started posting, and how you’ve amended those definitions since dialoguing with other posters on these boards.

Contradictory doctrines cannot both be correct.  The information you’ve given contradicts that of the Church.  Both cannot be right.  We don’t have to “pass through the veil” to know whether or not we’re right, because Our Revelation came to us cloaked in human flesh.  Our Revelation is the Lord Jesus Christ.  He taught our fathers the Apostles and they taught us, and thus the tradition has been passed down in an unbroken line for centuries.  The fact that there was “religion before Christ and they lived a little longer than 2000 years and they were wrong” means nothing.  The fact that men created fallacious creeds for themselves after the fall does not invalidate the covenant that God made with Adam, which was ultimately fulfilled by the Incarnation.

And no, I’m not offended, and I don’t think that others here are either.  Perhaps some are simply frustrated by your tact of stating information as if it were absolute fact and you were teaching us, having that information rebutted, and then, when out of ammunition, calling people who have disproved your statements almighty this or that or claiming that they’ve said that you were a lost soul.

I asked above but you declined to answer: “But fine, allow me to ask, how did you come to the understanding you presently espouse?”

Please, let us know.
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« Reply #65 on: July 18, 2010, 08:38:10 PM »

Ras Salem,

Please try listening to this recording:

http://www.myocn.net/index.php/20080612873/Special-Moments-in-Orthodoxy/Special-Moments-in-Orthodoxy-Trinitarian-Theology.html

It may give you a better idea of where we are coming from.
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« Reply #66 on: July 18, 2010, 09:18:23 PM »

Bless'ed Love To All,

I will definitly listen however where you stand is not the problem here.  Where I stand is the problem however I focus not on men and people.  I focus on the Father and I stand here where I am by choice and am not easily moved, so if everyone here can handle what I have to say then I suggest they buckle up because if none of you know what I speak of then I need to be here and you truelly are in for a ride, of course if you all are insecure about your info and feel you need me to leave.....Se'lah
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« Reply #67 on: July 18, 2010, 09:20:17 PM »

How does disagreeing with anything you've said constitute a lack of belief in Christ?  Especially when you’ve demonstrated that Christ ranks significantly lower in your cosmology than He does in ours?

Bless'ed Love To All,

  I never stated that either you did.  You felt thats what I was saying and it was not so thats your interpretation of whats there not whats there....Se'lah
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« Reply #68 on: July 18, 2010, 09:23:11 PM »

Anyone who can read “knows of what they speak” here because they can see how you were defining the terms in question when you first started posting, and how you’ve amended those definitions since dialoguing with other posters on these boards.


Bless'ed Love To All, 
  look at all my post none of my views have changed.  you mean your interpretation of my views is what made you think I know not what I speak of. I have changed no words you just didnt accept the context in which the words were wpoken.  thats not my problem thats yours....Se'lah
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« Reply #69 on: July 18, 2010, 09:25:01 PM »


I will definitly listen however where you stand is not the problem here. 

I think mutual understanding will be helpful in this discussion.  You've told us a lot about what you believe, and that has helped us to understand you better.  Now if you can understand us, we can have a real conversation.   Smiley
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« Reply #70 on: July 18, 2010, 09:28:05 PM »

Everyone,

I just posted the only audio I can think of that gives a basic explanation of the Holy Trinity. 

If anyone else can think of an audio or video they can link to, which gives a basic explanation about Christ or the Holy Trinity, that would probably be helpful.   Smiley
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« Reply #71 on: July 18, 2010, 09:42:38 PM »

Bless'ed Love To All,

I will definitly listen however where you stand is not the problem here.  Where I stand is the problem however I focus not on men and people.  I focus on the Father and I stand here where I am by choice and am not easily moved, so if everyone here can handle what I have to say then I suggest they buckle up because if none of you know what I speak of then I need to be here and you truelly are in for a ride, of course if you all are insecure about your info and feel you need me to leave.....Se'lah

See, that’s the attitude I was talking about.  You’re acting as if you’re here to teach people.  Teach them what?  The wisdom of these new age so-called Melchizedek Order types?  That’s neither ancient nor wisdom.

How does disagreeing with anything you've said constitute a lack of belief in Christ?  Especially when you’ve demonstrated that Christ ranks significantly lower in your cosmology than He does in ours?

Bless'ed Love To All,

  I never stated that either you did.  You felt thats what I was saying and it was not so thats your interpretation of whats there not whats there....Se'lah

No, you did indeed state that, as you stated that Our Lord Jesus Christ was not God.  Go back and read your own post.  That’s not my “interpretation”, that’s what you wrote in multiple posts.  Hiding behind “interpretation” doesn’t help.

Anyone who can read “knows of what they speak” here because they can see how you were defining the terms in question when you first started posting, and how you’ve amended those definitions since dialoguing with other posters on these boards.


Bless'ed Love To All, 
  look at all my post none of my views have changed.  you mean your interpretation of my views is what made you think I know not what I speak of. I have changed no words you just didnt accept the context in which the words were wpoken.  thats not my problem thats yours....Se'lah

Again, trying to hide behind “interpretation” doesn’t help.  You started out defining “Tewhedo” and “Orthodox” one way, and ended up defining them another after being repeatedly probed and corrected by numerous posters.  Now you’re defining “begotten” in a fallacious manner, but since deusveritasest and I have called you on that, you’ll probably back off of that too and claim we’re misinterpreting you.


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« Reply #72 on: July 18, 2010, 11:31:11 PM »

If the world is only 7000 years old how did they find human remains more than 3 million years old in Ethiopia......Se'lah


You believe what Babylon tells you. I believe what the ancient and mystical Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church teaches.



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« Reply #73 on: July 19, 2010, 05:31:32 PM »

If the world is only 7000 years old how did they find human remains more than 3 million years old in Ethiopia......Se'lah
You believe what Babylon tells you. I believe what the ancient and mystical Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church teaches.
The EOTC actually teaches that the world is 7000 years old? On what do they base this teaching?
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« Reply #74 on: July 19, 2010, 05:47:10 PM »

I think it is based on the Book of Jubilees, which is part of the Ethiopian canon.  I think it was discussed here:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,23347.0.html
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« Reply #75 on: July 19, 2010, 09:07:09 PM »

From time to time, occultists like Ras Salem will dabble in "exoteric" churches like Orthodoxy or Catholicism. You see this among many Masons, Rosicrucians, "Traditionalists," etc. They might borrow things from Orthodoxy while teaching what amounts to a completely different religion. It gives them a feeling of legitimacy and also it gets them some attention. And then there are also Gnostic "churches" claiming apostolic succession through some vagante bishop. But of course Ras Salem has some inner knowledge of what Christianity really teaches, and anyone who disagrees can only be ignorant or deluded, shut out from the inner circle of initiates.
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« Reply #76 on: July 20, 2010, 02:52:03 AM »

I think it is based on the Book of Jubilees, which is part of the Ethiopian canon.  I think it was discussed here:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,23347.0.html

Yes. Specifically reply #30.



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« Reply #77 on: July 20, 2010, 02:53:03 AM »

From time to time, occultists like Ras Salem will dabble in "exoteric" churches like Orthodoxy or Catholicism. You see this among many Masons, Rosicrucians, "Traditionalists," etc. They might borrow things from Orthodoxy while teaching what amounts to a completely different religion. It gives them a feeling of legitimacy and also it gets them some attention. And then there are also Gnostic "churches" claiming apostolic succession through some vagante bishop. But of course Ras Salem has some inner knowledge of what Christianity really teaches, and anyone who disagrees can only be ignorant or deluded, shut out from the inner circle of initiates.


Yep. I think you have summarized it well.



Selam
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« Reply #78 on: July 20, 2010, 11:29:58 AM »

From time to time, occultists like Ras Salem will dabble in "exoteric" churches like Orthodoxy or Catholicism. You see this among many Masons, Rosicrucians, "Traditionalists," etc. They might borrow things from Orthodoxy while teaching what amounts to a completely different religion. It gives them a feeling of legitimacy and also it gets them some attention. And then there are also Gnostic "churches" claiming apostolic succession through some vagante bishop. But of course Ras Salem has some inner knowledge of what Christianity really teaches, and anyone who disagrees can only be ignorant or deluded, shut out from the inner circle of initiates.

You hit the nail right on the head.  And since so many in the West are unfamiliar with Orthodoxy (especially of the Ethiopian variety) and we seem a little "exotic" to the "average Joe" to begin with, it's easy for these occultists to muddy the waters as to what we actually believe.  It took a long time for me to convince a very devout Protestant friend of mine that the Ethiopian Orthodox didn't smoke weed and worship Haile Selassie because she had encounted so many Rastas who did just that and represented themselves to her as "Ethiopian Orthodox".  Even on these boards, we witnessed people (Orthodox Christians) asking Ras Salem if "all Ethiopian Orthodox" believed the same as him.

Part of that is our fault, and that's a big part of why I felt the need to respond to his posts.  As Orthodox, we need to get the word out there about who we are and what we believe.
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« Reply #79 on: July 20, 2010, 01:58:16 PM »

From time to time, occultists like Ras Salem will dabble in "exoteric" churches like Orthodoxy or Catholicism. You see this among many Masons, Rosicrucians, "Traditionalists," etc. They might borrow things from Orthodoxy while teaching what amounts to a completely different religion. It gives them a feeling of legitimacy and also it gets them some attention. And then there are also Gnostic "churches" claiming apostolic succession through some vagante bishop. But of course Ras Salem has some inner knowledge of what Christianity really teaches, and anyone who disagrees can only be ignorant or deluded, shut out from the inner circle of initiates.

Bless'ed Love To All,

  who are you?  what are you talkin about, and how did you come to the summation that Im a part of any occult anythng.  WOW  unfortunatly for you Im none of those.  I dont need your attention because you cant save my soul so now you might have ran across people that you would like to associate me with but you're wrong and I didnt associate you with what I call Holy Rollers those people who look down on others because they dont go to church in the same place or have different views.  The bottom line is you all got offended when what you shouldve did was prey for me which you still havent because you're still trynna prove something that you can cause you dont know.  Now for all you Loving people who truely love the Father and not these fanatics who are indeed supreme but merely human like the rest of us.......prey for us especially me because let these people tell Im busting hell wide open ..........Se'lah
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« Reply #80 on: July 20, 2010, 03:57:12 PM »

Ras- could you please use the "quote" option in the upper right hand of the post you want to quote. That would make your posts much easier to read. Right now it is often difficult to discern where the quote you are referencing ends and your post begins.
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« Reply #81 on: July 20, 2010, 04:02:29 PM »

Ras,

It would be helpful if you could describe what you do believe in relation to the excerpts which have been provided from various theosophical and occult websites.

Do you believe ANY of this material?

Father Peter
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« Reply #82 on: July 20, 2010, 04:05:03 PM »

Bless'ed Love To All,

Im very sorry for that Im new to the site and all the functions I havent worked out yet however I always give the salutation "Bless'ed Love To All" before I address the subject at hand.  I would like to say that if you like we can have a decent conversation about this information if you so choose.  As you can see its very contraversial and I've been asked to leave it alone.  I am willing to talk with you about whatever but this doesnt seem to be the place for that.  You may send a personal e-mail if you like...... Se'lah
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« Reply #83 on: July 20, 2010, 04:09:29 PM »

Bless'ed Love To All

Beloved Father Peter I would like to start by saying thank you.  Even though I know that we might not agree on the information at least I dont feel like you're out to get me LOL.  As I stated before this post this seems like it is not the place for this information.  Im not here to make anyone feel disrespected, uncomfortable, wrong, right or anything of that nature.  If you would like to send a personal e-mail to further discuss this matter know that it will be accepted with Love,Understanding and Compassion knowing that we seek the same goal.  the FAther.... Se'lah
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« Reply #84 on: July 20, 2010, 04:26:11 PM »

Bless'ed Love To All

Yes Salpy now you see why I wrote you personally and why I said to you what I said.  Which is why you made the statements that you made  about this particular thread.  Now as you can see this man is insecure in what he claims he knows otherwise he wouldve stuck to the subject like most people of intelligence would instead of trying to call me on somethng he went and googled and found AFTER he got upset with my commnts which shows that he still has a lot to learn, but anyway SALPY Im glad to see that at least you have the sense to know that just because my views are different doesnt mean that YOU are inferior as this man obviously feels.  Now Salpy why didnt you get offended even though you and I clearly see that this man did.  Now I wonder why that is.  He even stop giving his salutation after a whle so you know like I do.....Se'lah

From time to time, occultists like Ras Salem will dabble in "exoteric" churches like Orthodoxy or Catholicism. You see this among many Masons, Rosicrucians, "Traditionalists," etc. They might borrow things from Orthodoxy while teaching what amounts to a completely different religion. It gives them a feeling of legitimacy and also it gets them some attention. And then there are also Gnostic "churches" claiming apostolic succession through some vagante bishop. But of course Ras Salem has some inner knowledge of what Christianity really teaches, and anyone who disagrees can only be ignorant or deluded, shut out from the inner circle of initiates.

Bless'ed Love To All,

  who are you?  what are you talkin about, and how did you come to the summation that Im a part of any occult anythng.  WOW  unfortunatly for you Im none of those.  I dont need your attention because you cant save my soul so now you might have ran across people that you would like to associate me with but you're wrong and I didnt associate you with what I call Holy Rollers those people who look down on others because they dont go to church in the same place or have different views.  The bottom line is you all got offended when what you shouldve did was prey for me which you still havent because you're still trynna prove something that you can cause you dont know.  Now for all you Loving people who truely love the Father and not these fanatics who are indeed supreme but merely human like the rest of us.......prey for us especially me because let these people tell Im busting hell wide open ..........Se'lah

LOL!  He even stop (sic) giving his salutation after awhile? LOL!

And I suppose it’s better to give a phony, insincere salutation and then spew bile and invective all over the screen like you do?  A hollow “blessed love” means nothing when followed by a venomous ad hominem attack and a ranting post devoid of all spiritual and academic value.

You are really predictable.  I knew you’d be back and that that ego of yours wouldn’t let you rest until you’d had the “last word”…which in your case would probably be a superfluous and inappropriately used “selah”.

Your self-delusion knows no bounds.  Here you are telling Salpy that she agrees with you and what her motives are, and she tells you flat out that you are wrong.  Since you can’t deny that, your next tactic will probably to go back to calling me “insecure”, which simply means you wish I’d stop playing the gadfly and let you carry on with your ranting and raving in peace, as if you really were a “high priest” and we really were “in for a ride” as you wowed us with your Dr. Bronner’s “wisdom”.

So you mentioned something I googled, and that would be the website of the Melchizedek Order/Order of White Light, which you’ve claimed to be a part of again and again, even claiming that, “If you do your history you will clearly see that the Melchizedek Order(also Brotherhood of the White Light) holds all the secrets to mankind ...”

(LOL! “do your history” LOL!)

Well, after “doing my history” what I clearly see is that the “order” you speak of is nothing more than a cult.  See the information posted below.  Those interested can see if this so-called “Melchizedek Order” qualifies as an occult organization or not.

And again, in your clairvoyance, you see fit to tell us which of us are “preying” for you and which are not, because we couldn’t possibly be PRAYING for you and simultaneously refuting what you’re “trynna prove” on here by bombarding us with a deluge of cultic ramblings.

Yeah, based not only on your unbalanced behavior and what you’ve posted here, but also on what the “Melchizedek Order” has to say about itself on the web, I’d say Iconodule characterized you and your organization with cutting accuracy.


http://www.newyorkawareness.com/Ordinationpriestnewyork.asp

http://www.wingsinc.com.au/melchizedek/melchizedek2.html

Lord Machiventa Melchizedek Introduces the Melchizedek Order   


Opportunity comes amid rapid yet beneficial changes which grant us time to step in so to speak to aid humanity past a time of expansion of consciousness, but to enlist your support in this conversion of consciousness.


I AM Machiventa Melchizedek, and I do welcome all of you into the fold so to speak of the Melchizedek Order. One energetic in origin, yet anchored securely into the earth plane now. We give you this great gift out of love, and a need to aid you remember who you truly are.

Gathering are forces to aid you, humanity out of the slumber which has you locked into materialism and short sighted thinking. Not taking into consideration are you the present extreme state of decline of this planet. So it is our wish to give you words on a regular basis to grasp the reigns so to speak, and pull up the bolting horse of consumption of resources and environment decline.

I offer you with my beloved vessel, a source of love and truth, to walk you safely through these troublesome times. Accepting love is the key, will you walk these troublesome times, accepting love is the key? Will you walk willingly now as Melchizedek's, opening to your divine heritage and hear this wake up call?

I call out to all Melchizedek's to now awaken, and live life fully aware of all your potentials to do good, but equally you have the power to misuse energy, and this comes with a responsibility. I ask each and every one of you now to awaken. This invitation rides the waves, the flow so to speak of energetic changes which have recently flowed, issuing you with new vibrational frequencies to aid your expansion of consciousness, to halt the decay which has taken place.

Rationalism would say keep jobs at all cost, the environment can wait. Not so! This opportunity comes but once, and all are invited to shift, and shift you must. The result if not changed from this present course is one of environmental suicide, taking with you this planet you call home. Gluttony for resources and personal needs has placed you humanity into a state of flux. Make no move to shift with positive actions the course before you and the outcome is not pleasant.

Joyful memories are of course important to those of you who value relationships, and it is no different with those of who represent the Spiritual Hierarchy, Great White Brotherhood and Sisterhood of Light. All value relationships. What we see as important, nay vital to the evolution of the species, of humanity, is the extinguishment of fear, and for this purpose I have come to ask my beloved vessel Virginia Melchizedek, to take into her heart those in need, and in this process put in place the Order of Melchizedek. When done, completed, this web page, this will be a means of communication between those who represent the Great White Brotherhood and Sisterhood of Light, and those in body, those incarnated souls who have always represented the Melchizedek Order, and given that I Am Lord Machiventa Melchizedek, I have asked of my Beloved vessel that this webpage be provided free, open to all souls.

Inclusion has always been our way, offering that great path of Light and transforming those who seek to evolve and take the world with them. So it is that the Melchizedek Order is now available, (in Picton Australia), and with my Beloved vessel as my earthly representative I will give words of courage to those in need of such advise, and words to awaken those who do not issue from love. It is our expectation within this Melchizedek Order, the Great Work of recovery of humanity will be completed. Energetically aligned in heaven as on earth, as above so below, we ground now the Order of Melchizedek into this dimensional doorway, to beckon come all yee who love God and love others as thyself.

I Machiventa Melchizedek welcome you to this first introductory response, and ask of you if your soul calls out in recognition that you are summoned home so to speak, read these words and pass this information onto others. It is our expectation monthly newsletters will become available, to be issued at your request. ( when possible )

We stand at the doorway of change, unprecedented, activated and now speeding up. Cataclysmic events opening the mind of those previously closed to the impacts mankind has made upon this planet you call earth. We stand with you every step of the journey, and each and every one of you with activation of your memory codes will recognise truths when you see it, and hear truth within the heart.

My role is to beckon and call all to the light of understanding, to say to you now awaken my children. Stand up and be counted. Arrive wearing the seamless garment of truth. Speak only now of optimistic views. See hope as the chalice we bring, this vessel and I. I offer you this chalice of hope with an explanation. It is to prepare the way for Christ who is come into existence of hearts and minds open to such energy, but my children, has it been so long that you have forgotten your part at this time as planetary healers? Speak softly they say, and I would agree. Love your neighbour as yourself. Open the heart and speak openly of truth denied.

You enter a time of unprecedented change, monumental are the shifts which just occurred over the past year, (December 06-January 08) and necessarily it is so you see this time as structured for ethics and truth to reign supreme. We have given you energies of preparation, and given that this rainbow light beckons to all, shall you say, I will awaken and take up my chalice and offer hope to all.

Earth, your living planet, Gaia as she is called.

 
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« Reply #85 on: July 20, 2010, 04:26:18 PM »

I think it is based on the Book of Jubilees, which is part of the Ethiopian canon.  I think it was discussed here:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,23347.0.html
Yes. Specifically reply #30.
I see. Seems to me to be a case of people taking Scripture waaaaaay too literally.

I see also, Gebre, that you never actually substantiated your claim in that thread that "evolutionists support abortion." I asked you to 1) prove the existence of "evolutionists" and 2) to show that this demographic tend to support abortions. You completely ignored me, and when the thread ran its natural course, I gave up, not wanting to perpetuate the discussion for that reason alone. However, now that the discussion has resurfaced, would you like to either substantiate or retract that claim?
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« Reply #86 on: July 20, 2010, 04:46:55 PM »

Is there a reason you are addressing that subject in this thread?  Couldn't that be another thread in another place?
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« Reply #87 on: July 20, 2010, 04:48:48 PM »

Is there a reason you are addressing that subject in this thread?  Couldn't that be another thread in another place?
It's just as relevant here as it was in that thread.
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« Reply #88 on: July 20, 2010, 04:50:04 PM »

LOL!  He even stop (sic) giving his salutation after awhile? LOL!

And I suppose it’s better to give a phony, insincere salutation and then spew bile and invective all over the screen like you do?  A hollow “blessed love” means nothing when followed by a venomous ad hominem attack and a ranting post devoid of all spiritual and academic value.

You are really predictable.  I knew you’d be back and that that ego of yours wouldn’t let you rest until you’d had the “last word”…which in your case would probably be a superfluous and inappropriately used “selah”.

Your self-delusion knows no bounds.  Here you are telling Salpy that she agrees with you and what her motives are, and she tells you flat out that you are wrong.  Since you can’t deny that, your next tactic will probably to go back to calling me “insecure”, which simply means you wish I’d stop playing the gadfly and let you carry on with your ranting and raving in peace, as if you really were a “high priest” and we really were “in for a ride” as you wowed us with your Dr. Bronner’s “wisdom”.

So you mentioned something I googled, and that would be the website of the Melchizedek Order/Order of White Light, which you’ve claimed to be a part of again and again, even claiming that, “If you do your history you will clearly see that the Melchizedek Order(also Brotherhood of the White Light) holds all the secrets to mankind ...”

(LOL! “do your history” LOL!)

Well, after “doing my history” what I clearly see is that the “order” you speak of is nothing more than a cult.  See the information posted below.  Those interested can see if this so-called “Melchizedek Order” qualifies as an occult organization or not.

And again, in your clairvoyance, you see fit to tell us which of us are “preying” for you and which are not, because we couldn’t possibly be PRAYING for you and simultaneously refuting what you’re “trynna prove” on here by bombarding us with a deluge of cultic ramblings.

Yeah, based not only on your unbalanced behavior and what you’ve posted here, but also on what the “Melchizedek Order” has to say about itself on the web, I’d say Iconodule characterized you and your organization with cutting accuracy.


http://www.newyorkawareness.com/Ordinationpriestnewyork.asp

http://www.wingsinc.com.au/melchizedek/melchizedek2.html

Lord Machiventa Melchizedek Introduces the Melchizedek Order   


Opportunity comes amid rapid yet beneficial changes which grant us time to step in so to speak to aid humanity past a time of expansion of consciousness, but to enlist your support in this conversion of consciousness.


I AM Machiventa Melchizedek, and I do welcome all of you into the fold so to speak of the Melchizedek Order. One energetic in origin, yet anchored securely into the earth plane now. We give you this great gift out of love, and a need to aid you remember who you truly are.

Gathering are forces to aid you, humanity out of the slumber which has you locked into materialism and short sighted thinking. Not taking into consideration are you the present extreme state of decline of this planet. So it is our wish to give you words on a regular basis to grasp the reigns so to speak, and pull up the bolting horse of consumption of resources and environment decline.

I offer you with my beloved vessel, a source of love and truth, to walk you safely through these troublesome times. Accepting love is the key, will you walk these troublesome times, accepting love is the key? Will you walk willingly now as Melchizedek's, opening to your divine heritage and hear this wake up call?

I call out to all Melchizedek's to now awaken, and live life fully aware of all your potentials to do good, but equally you have the power to misuse energy, and this comes with a responsibility. I ask each and every one of you now to awaken. This invitation rides the waves, the flow so to speak of energetic changes which have recently flowed, issuing you with new vibrational frequencies to aid your expansion of consciousness, to halt the decay which has taken place.

Rationalism would say keep jobs at all cost, the environment can wait. Not so! This opportunity comes but once, and all are invited to shift, and shift you must. The result if not changed from this present course is one of environmental suicide, taking with you this planet you call home. Gluttony for resources and personal needs has placed you humanity into a state of flux. Make no move to shift with positive actions the course before you and the outcome is not pleasant.

Joyful memories are of course important to those of you who value relationships, and it is no different with those of who represent the Spiritual Hierarchy, Great White Brotherhood and Sisterhood of Light. All value relationships. What we see as important, nay vital to the evolution of the species, of humanity, is the extinguishment of fear, and for this purpose I have come to ask my beloved vessel Virginia Melchizedek, to take into her heart those in need, and in this process put in place the Order of Melchizedek. When done, completed, this web page, this will be a means of communication between those who represent the Great White Brotherhood and Sisterhood of Light, and those in body, those incarnated souls who have always represented the Melchizedek Order, and given that I Am Lord Machiventa Melchizedek, I have asked of my Beloved vessel that this webpage be provided free, open to all souls.

Inclusion has always been our way, offering that great path of Light and transforming those who seek to evolve and take the world with them. So it is that the Melchizedek Order is now available, (in Picton Australia), and with my Beloved vessel as my earthly representative I will give words of courage to those in need of such advise, and words to awaken those who do not issue from love. It is our expectation within this Melchizedek Order, the Great Work of recovery of humanity will be completed. Energetically aligned in heaven as on earth, as above so below, we ground now the Order of Melchizedek into this dimensional doorway, to beckon come all yee who love God and love others as thyself.

I Machiventa Melchizedek welcome you to this first introductory response, and ask of you if your soul calls out in recognition that you are summoned home so to speak, read these words and pass this information onto others. It is our expectation monthly newsletters will become available, to be issued at your request. ( when possible )

We stand at the doorway of change, unprecedented, activated and now speeding up. Cataclysmic events opening the mind of those previously closed to the impacts mankind has made upon this planet you call earth. We stand with you every step of the journey, and each and every one of you with activation of your memory codes will recognise truths when you see it, and hear truth within the heart.

My role is to beckon and call all to the light of understanding, to say to you now awaken my children. Stand up and be counted. Arrive wearing the seamless garment of truth. Speak only now of optimistic views. See hope as the chalice we bring, this vessel and I. I offer you this chalice of hope with an explanation. It is to prepare the way for Christ who is come into existence of hearts and minds open to such energy, but my children, has it been so long that you have forgotten your part at this time as planetary healers? Speak softly they say, and I would agree. Love your neighbour as yourself. Open the heart and speak openly of truth denied.

You enter a time of unprecedented change, monumental are the shifts which just occurred over the past year, (December 06-January 08) and necessarily it is so you see this time as structured for ethics and truth to reign supreme. We have given you energies of preparation, and given that this rainbow light beckons to all, shall you say, I will awaken and take up my chalice and offer hope to all.

Earth, your living planet, Gaia as she is called.

 



Be nice.  You know better.  Insulting another poster doesn't convince him of your position and it just violates forum rules.
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Faith: Oriental Orthodox Christian
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Pray for the Christians of Iraq and Syria.


« Reply #89 on: July 20, 2010, 04:51:26 PM »

Is there a reason you are addressing that subject in this thread?  Couldn't that be another thread in another place?
It's just as relevant here as it was in that thread.

I don't see it that way.  Please take the subject somewhere else.  I would consider it a personal favor.   Smiley
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Tags: Melchizedek heresy 
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