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Author Topic: Is H.I.M. Haile Selassie still alive?  (Read 11148 times) Average Rating: 0
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Ras Salem
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« on: July 12, 2010, 04:36:20 PM »

Greetings to all.  The question of should he be cannonized is absolete.  The true question is where is HIM already canonized.  HIM is the seed of David so therefore the representation oh HIM is evident everywhere.  No one elses ancestors are spoken of more than HIM.
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« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2010, 04:38:02 PM »

Welcome, Ras Salem.   Smiley
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« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2010, 05:46:35 PM »

Greetings and Blesse'ed Love to you
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« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2010, 05:55:31 PM »

So I guess I would be looked at as crazy if I said to you that H.I.M. lives in exile at this current moment.  For those who say that this is not true the key to this question is in the actions of the Crown Prince Heir Apparent.  He refuse to take the thrown because he knew that his father was not dead and this type of action would be considered disrespectfull to his father His Imperial Majesty to take the thrown and his father did not request this or died.  This is why H.R.H. Crown Prince Amha Sellassie never took the thrown because he knew his father was not dead.  He chose to except exile with the rest of his family and Father H.I.M.
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« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2010, 06:41:13 PM »

So I guess I would be looked at as crazy if I said to you that H.I.M. lives in exile at this current moment.  For those who say that this is not true the key to this question is in the actions of the Crown Prince Heir Apparent.  He refuse to take the thrown because he knew that his father was not dead and this type of action would be considered disrespectfull to his father His Imperial Majesty to take the thrown and his father did not request this or died.  This is why H.R.H. Crown Prince Amha Sellassie never took the thrown because he knew his father was not dead.  He chose to except exile with the rest of his family and Father H.I.M.
If the late emperor were alive, he would be celebrating his 118 birthday this month. Highly unlikely,as the oldest recorded person ever was 122. His son accepted acclamation (after ones in 1960 and 1974) on April 8, 1989.
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« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2010, 08:36:23 PM »

Bless'ed Love to you and all.  If what you say is true why was he not acknowleged as the King of Ethiopia?  He is still titled and considered the Crown Prince.  Im sure you know what that means.  Only by two means can he ascend to the throne.  By his father's permission or his death.  So if what you say is true why wait until 89 as you stated when it is supposedly stated that H.I.M. cease to exist by whatever means they claim in 74. He would automatically be King since he is the Crown Prince Heir Apparent.   Why wait when the British as well as others were considered to be allies of H.I.M. and were willing to assisst in the deposement of the Derg.  H.I.M. spoke at the U.N. on numerous occasions.  The Derg themselves even offered the Throne to the Crown Prince in fear of the word of the Father and the Crown Prince refused and went into exile with the rest of the Imperial Crown......So why wait 15 years?
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« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2010, 08:57:47 PM »

Bless'ed Love to you and all.  If what you say is true why was he not acknowleged as the King of Ethiopia?  He is still titled and considered the Crown Prince.  Im sure you know what that means.  

Same thing it meant in Grand Duke Cyril Vladimirovich not becoming Czar.

Quote
Only by two means can he ascend to the throne.  By his father's permission or his death.  So if what you say is true why wait until 89 as you stated when it is supposedly stated that H.I.M. cease to exist by whatever means they claim in 74. He would automatically be King since he is the Crown Prince Heir Apparent.   Why wait when the British as well as others were considered to be allies of H.I.M. and were willing to assisst in the deposement of the Derg.  H.I.M. spoke at the U.N. on numerous occasions.  The Derg themselves even offered the Throne to the Crown Prince in fear of the word of the Father and the Crown Prince refused and went into exile with the rest of the Imperial Crown......So why wait 15 years?
I can offer an explanation, but not that that is important (for one thing, the last of the Imperial Family were released by the Deng in 1989, and the Soviet patronage of the Deng dried up that year).  H.I.M. could explain himself.
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« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2010, 09:39:44 PM »

Bless'ed Love to You.  So what you're saying is that even though the Crown Prince refused the throne when it was offered by the Derg that the Imperial Family was held captive until 89.  even though H.I.M. clearly wrote speeches pertaining to current event issues well after 74 and before 89. (Selective Speeches of H.I.M.)  So you're saying that they held him captive but allowed him to write and make speeches.  So why would the Crown Prince Heir Apparent who automatically becomes King upon the death of H.I.M. wait to take a crown that was offered to him and that other nations would've been willing to assisst him in regaining control of.  There are people who say that H.I.M. is a tyrrant listening to outside influence in the dictatorship of Ethiopia.  So if people were saying these things about H.I.M. clearly H.I.M. had allies at the time from outside countries. There were numerous Monarchs of different countries that H.I.M. clearly was affiliated with.(He gave some lion cubs as tokens of esteem).  So why not take his rightfull place as King of Ethiopia and overthrow the Derg as his father was attempting to do?
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« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2010, 09:53:39 PM »

Bless'ed Love to you and all.  If what you say is true why was he not acknowleged as the King of Ethiopia?  He is still titled and considered the Crown Prince.  Im sure you know what that means.  Only by two means can he ascend to the throne.  By his father's permission or his death.  So if what you say is true why wait until 89 as you stated when it is supposedly stated that H.I.M. cease to exist by whatever means they claim in 74. He would automatically be King since he is the Crown Prince Heir Apparent.   Why wait when the British as well as others were considered to be allies of H.I.M. and were willing to assisst in the deposement of the Derg.  H.I.M. spoke at the U.N. on numerous occasions.  The Derg themselves even offered the Throne to the Crown Prince in fear of the word of the Father and the Crown Prince refused and went into exile with the rest of the Imperial Crown......So why wait 15 years?

The Crown Prince was never crowned Emperor because the coronation must, by tradition, take place at the Cathedral in Addis Ababa. Due to various things, that is not possible at this time.
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« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2010, 10:16:50 PM »

Well to my knowledge the EPDRF clearly states in numerous places upon Crown Prince Amha Selassie's refusal to take the thrown that it was so called abolished.  So who is making attempts to Ascend the Crown Prince to the throne and who is standing in the way....?  Who would deny  his crowning clearly knowing that he is Heir Apparent?
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« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2010, 10:21:05 PM »

Well to my knowledge the EPDRF clearly states in numerous places upon Crown Prince Amha Selassie's refusal to take the thrown that it was so called abolished.  So who is making attempts to Ascend the Crown Prince to the throne and who is standing in the way....?  Who would deny  his crowning clearly knowing that he is Heir Apparent?

The Communists.
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« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2010, 03:32:17 AM »

Greetings to all.  The question of should he be cannonized is absolete.  The true question is where is HIM already canonized.  HIM is the seed of David so therefore the representation oh HIM is evident everywhere.  No one elses ancestors are spoken of more than HIM.

I would like to know if H.I.M. held the title 'King of Tsion' and if so, how? He was crowned in Addis Abeba and every [Solomonic/Davidic] monarch before that [I believe], with the exception of Menelik II [?] was crowned in Axum (Tsion)...

So I guess I would be looked at as crazy if I said to you that H.I.M. lives in exile at this current moment.  For those who say that this is not true the key to this question is in the actions of the Crown Prince Heir Apparent.  He refuse to take the thrown because he knew that his father was not dead and this type of action would be considered disrespectfull to his father His Imperial Majesty to take the thrown and his father did not request this or died.  This is why H.R.H. Crown Prince Amha Sellassie never took the thrown because he knew his father was not dead.  He chose to except exile with the rest of his family and Father H.I.M.

“Men and brethren let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
 
“For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: ‘The LORD said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, till I make your enemies your footstool.”

“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

May the Lord Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God Who is Worthy to Loose the Seals thereof, give peace to Haile Selassie's soul and may he rest in Paradise with the souls of his father David, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and all of the saints...

Sincerely,

haile amanuel
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« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2010, 10:12:00 PM »

Greetings To All.  I would like to start by saying that in the ancient maps the lines and borders are totally different.  Axum is indeed in Ethiopia, home of H.I.M to this very day.  What other man has been given the title King of King's Lord of Lords Conquering Lion of Judah.  Now if we look at the ancient Habesha(The Royal Pedigree of the Ancient Ones)  Ne'gus Ne'gaste(King of King's-Emperor) is used and given to all kings but not Mo'a Ambessa Ze' i'mnegede Yihuda(Conquering Lion of Judah) only given to two men in history Christ and H.I.M. if you look at the demographics stated Christ also had to truelly reside in the same area given certain titles only held by Ethiopians.  Know that Melchizedek and the descendents of Isreal the Man sit by blood to the left continually.  The right as clearly stated is for anyone who will sit at his right hand by obeying his commandments.  Psalms 2 as well as 110 were written before the birth of christ.  Melchizedek the man is High Priest continually Gen. 14:18 clearly shows this.  Hebrews 7 the whole chapter correlates this.  The Melchizedek Order was stablished not established.  The name of us(Man and Woman) was created before the earth sun moon and stars.  As well as the Royal Priesthood that Jesus is High Priest after.  Hebrews 6:20.  To me this means that all High Priest of the Melchizedek Order should be canonized.  Especially H.I.M. being the Power of the Trinity (King,Priest, and Prophet) as all those before H.I.M......Bless'ed Love
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« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2010, 02:56:40 AM »

Huh??

What does this mean?
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« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2010, 03:18:51 AM »

This thread was split off from here:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,20326.45.html#lastPost
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« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2010, 03:21:24 AM »

Huh??

What does this mean?
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« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2010, 03:29:56 AM »

It means that after reading all that Ras Salem has posted I have no idea what he means?

He says he is Tewahedo Orthodox but what he says isn't Orthodox, and a search on the organisations he mentions throws up all sorts of error and worse.

So ... Huh
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« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2010, 03:56:45 AM »

It means that after reading all that Ras Salem has posted I have no idea what he means?

He says he is Tewahedo Orthodox but what he says isn't Orthodox, and a search on the organisations he mentions throws up all sorts of error and worse.

So ... Huh

I notice that he identifies himself as "Tewahido" but not Orthodox. Many Rastas hold to Orthodox doctrines but identify Haile Selassie as Christ (which of course is unOrthodox, to say the least.) But this is why it gets tricky when reasoning with such individuals. They affirm all the essential doctrines of the Orthodox Faith, but simply replace Jesus Christ with Haile Selassie. And we know this idea to be nothing less than pure heresy. So, be aware of this dynamic when discussing theology and doctrine with Selassie worshippers. It can be confusing, because on the one hand they affirm important Orthodox positions such as Tewahedo Christology, the Holy Trinity, etc. while they simultaneously worship Haile Selassie as Christ.

As for the question of the OP, "is Haile Selassie still alive?"...

YES! H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I is alive in Heaven, praising God with the Saints and all those who have reposed in the Faith, interceding on behalf of those of us who are still working out our salvation with fear and trembling.


Selam
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« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2010, 09:50:49 AM »

It means that after reading all that Ras Salem has posted I have no idea what he means?

He says he is Tewahedo Orthodox but what he says isn't Orthodox, and a search on the organisations he mentions throws up all sorts of error and worse.

So ... Huh

I notice that he identifies himself as "Tewahido" but not Orthodox. Many Rastas hold to Orthodox doctrines but identify Haile Selassie as Christ (which of course is unOrthodox, to say the least.) But this is why it gets tricky when reasoning with such individuals. They affirm all the essential doctrines of the Orthodox Faith, but simply replace Jesus Christ with Haile Selassie. And we know this idea to be nothing less than pure heresy. So, be aware of this dynamic when discussing theology and doctrine with Selassie worshippers. It can be confusing, because on the one hand they affirm important Orthodox positions such as Tewahedo Christology, the Holy Trinity, etc. while they simultaneously worship Haile Selassie as Christ.

As for the question of the OP, "is Haile Selassie still alive?"...

YES! H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I is alive in Heaven, praising God with the Saints and all those who have reposed in the Faith, interceding on behalf of those of us who are still working out our salvation with fear and trembling.


Selam

Amen, Gebre!  This is completely correct.  His Majesty is alive in Christ and in Heaven, and I would love to see his canonization made official.

You are also quite correct in your assessment of many of those following the Rasta trod, although each individual can be different.  There are Rastas who say His majesty is God, Rastas who say he is not, Rastas who say they sight Our Lord Jesus Christ through His Majesty, and Rastas who call themselves Tewahedo Orthodox Christians while also calling themselves Kemitic priests, Orthodox Jews, and Solomonic masons, all of which they see as elements of the African cultural heritage, never acknowledging that some of these elements are mutually exclusive and contradictory.  But of course, when you explain this to some of them, they are humble and receptive of the true Ethiopian Orthodox tradition, while others say their faith is "not one of writs and rites" but that they are free to teach as as they like in the name of "Orthodoxy" without restriction.

I remember a big hubub at an Ethiopian Orthodox Church I used to attend frequented by many Rastas, because the Rastas there objected to the language in the liturgy concerning the enumeration of the saints which speaks of "My Masters, the Roman fathers Maximus and Domitius".  There was much "fire burning' of Rome and evoking of the image of the "master" in the Western concept of chattel slavery.

Such things are understandably part of the cultural baggage of Africans living in this Western hemisphere who were placed under the brutal, evil, and inexcusable system of racially based slavery and all of the acompanying torture and bereavement of one's cultural roots which that entails.

However, once we have found the truth...the Orthodox Church...we must abandon all of the false, pseudo-African defense mechanisms we have constructed for ourselves in the guise of "wisdom".
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« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2010, 12:55:41 PM »

Wow first of all the Father said question not how any man chooses to worship the Father for he is God to many.  Now H.I.M. is not christ, and Christ is not H.I.M. for those who are confused about this pray for them.  Now your opinion on the info i gave is not adequete information however if you look hard enough you will find what I speak of and when you can show concrete material about by all means enlighten us all.  So are you stating to all that I have made a mochary of the Father,Son and Holy Spirit by spreading lies a non truth?
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« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2010, 12:59:30 PM »

Amen, Gebre!  This is completely correct.  His Majesty is alive in Christ and in Heaven, and I would love to see his canonization made official.

You are also quite correct in your assessment of many of those following the Rasta trod, although each individual can be different.  There are Rastas who say His majesty is God, Rastas who say he is not, Rastas who say they sight Our Lord Jesus Christ through His Majesty, and Rastas who call themselves Tewahedo Orthodox Christians while also calling themselves Kemitic priests, Orthodox Jews, and Solomonic masons, all of which they see as elements of the African cultural heritage, never acknowledging that some of these elements are mutually exclusive and contradictory.  But of course, when you explain this to some of them, they are humble and receptive of the true Ethiopian Orthodox tradition, while others say their faith is "not one of writs and rites" but that they are free to teach as as they like in the name of "Orthodoxy" without restriction.

I remember a big hubub at an Ethiopian Orthodox Church I used to attend frequented by many Rastas, because the Rastas there objected to the language in the liturgy concerning the enumeration of the saints which speaks of "My Masters, the Roman fathers Maximus and Domitius".  There was much "fire burning' of Rome and evoking of the image of the "master" in the Western concept of chattel slavery.

Such things are understandably part of the cultural baggage of Africans living in this Western hemisphere who were placed under the brutal, evil, and inexcusable system of racially based slavery and all of the acompanying torture and bereavement of one's cultural roots which that entails.

However, once we have found the truth...the Orthodox Church...we must abandon all of the false, pseudo-African defense mechanisms we have constructed for ourselves in the guise of "wisdom".

Greetings to all.  Im only 33 years old and Ive expierienced some racial tension but I do not associate myself with all that.  I am not into color we are all children of the Father.  so for those who have a llowed the western mentallity to change thier overstanding of the word....Pray for them
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« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2010, 01:01:46 PM »

Facts stand and Lies dont.  So show and prove that what I have stated is false.........correlate your truth.  So you claim that you get no hit backs from the Melchizedek Order?  Does that mean it is false and does not exist?  Bless'ed Love
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« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2010, 01:08:02 PM »

Wow first of all the Father said question not how any man chooses to worship the Father for he is God to many.  Now H.I.M. is not christ, and Christ is not H.I.M. for those who are confused about this pray for them.  Now your opinion on the info i gave is not adequete information however if you look hard enough you will find what I speak of and when you can show concrete material about by all means enlighten us all.  So are you stating to all that I have made a mochary of the Father,Son and Holy Spirit by spreading lies a non truth?

Who is thos addressed to, brother?

Amen, Gebre!  This is completely correct.  His Majesty is alive in Christ and in Heaven, and I would love to see his canonization made official.

You are also quite correct in your assessment of many of those following the Rasta trod, although each individual can be different.  There are Rastas who say His majesty is God, Rastas who say he is not, Rastas who say they sight Our Lord Jesus Christ through His Majesty, and Rastas who call themselves Tewahedo Orthodox Christians while also calling themselves Kemitic priests, Orthodox Jews, and Solomonic masons, all of which they see as elements of the African cultural heritage, never acknowledging that some of these elements are mutually exclusive and contradictory.  But of course, when you explain this to some of them, they are humble and receptive of the true Ethiopian Orthodox tradition, while others say their faith is "not one of writs and rites" but that they are free to teach as as they like in the name of "Orthodoxy" without restriction.

I remember a big hubub at an Ethiopian Orthodox Church I used to attend frequented by many Rastas, because the Rastas there objected to the language in the liturgy concerning the enumeration of the saints which speaks of "My Masters, the Roman fathers Maximus and Domitius".  There was much "fire burning' of Rome and evoking of the image of the "master" in the Western concept of chattel slavery.

Such things are understandably part of the cultural baggage of Africans living in this Western hemisphere who were placed under the brutal, evil, and inexcusable system of racially based slavery and all of the acompanying torture and bereavement of one's cultural roots which that entails.

However, once we have found the truth...the Orthodox Church...we must abandon all of the false, pseudo-African defense mechanisms we have constructed for ourselves in the guise of "wisdom".

Greetings to all.  Im only 33 years old and Ive expierienced some racial tension but I do not associate myself with all that.  I am not into color we are all children of the Father.  so for those who have a llowed the western mentallity to change thier overstanding of the word....Pray for them

Amen, brother.  My point is simply that by living here in the West we have constructed a variety of pseudo-African, pseudo-religious institutions as a means of coping with what "Babylon" has dumped on us...this could range from the Nation of Islam to the so-called "Hebrew Israelites"...However, I believe that once we encounter the Truth of Orthodoxy we are obligated to put away childish things and embrace the Light of Christ.
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« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2010, 01:18:31 PM »

This is correct and I realy feel sorry for those who dont seek the truth with blinders on focusing only on the Father.  I have done so.  I grew up in a home where religion and things of the world were not forced on us.  Im not racist and I pray for those who are.  To get caught in the web of babylon(confusion) to me means that you are not seeking the Father.  I am focused on the Father only.
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« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2010, 01:36:37 PM »

Agreed.  But at the same time, we are not to forsake the gathering of ourselves together, and we are stick strictly to the Faith delievered once and forever for all the saints.  Therefore, it behooves us to determine exactly where this Faith has been maintained in an unbroken, Apostolic continuity.
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« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2010, 01:39:36 PM »

thru the Melchizedek Order which as you can see almost nobody knows anythng about it except those like myself who are a part of it.  This is why there is such a great difference in the info. There has been no outisde influence on the order itself.  It can only be given not taken or stolen.
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« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2010, 01:45:28 PM »

But the Lord Jesus didn't come to bring Truth and salvation to a chosen few, but to all the world.  His Holy Apostles, the true priesthood, went throughout the Earth establishing churches, ordaining successors, and ministering to the people.  We are not to hide our light under a bush.  So I assume that the Order of Melchizedek is a missionary, evangelizing order and not a secretive cabal?
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« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2010, 01:52:35 PM »

No secrets pertain to the order otherwise we would not be in discussion about it.  The truth behind the secrecy of this type of thing was not a part of the org order but those who found the info simply wanted to keep for themselves.  You are correct the Father is for all.........
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« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2010, 01:55:13 PM »

I was chosen by the Father to know the truth which is why I believe that the info fell from the sky like he(Father) wanted.  The Melchizedek Order is not in the hands of Tyrants who want to rule the world, but by men like myself who knows that the sole purpose of man is to praise the Father.......
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« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2010, 02:13:43 PM »

Yes!  I applaud this sentiment.  The purpose of man is to praise the Father!  But we have to praise Him on His terms, not ours.  Not all sacrifices...all worship...are acceptable to Him, even as the sacrifice of Able was accepted but the sacrifice of Cain was not.  The Rastas in Jamaica were praising the Father in their way, and His Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I said that they must praise Him in the right way, and so he sent his priest, Abune Yesehaq, to instruct them and bring them home to the EOTC. 

Have you seen these webpages?

http://www.abbayesehaq.com/

http://www.abbayesehaq.com/home.htm
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« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2010, 04:11:22 PM »

Bless'ed Love To All, No I have not seen the pages referred however I try to study to prove myself worthy and will def. look at them.  Now you are correct about the situation you speak of in Jamaica and the pre-colonialism that H.I.M. knew,stated and saw in his visit and also he wrote letters stating that he didnt want their pre-colonialism present at his land grant.  However I am not a Jamaican and do not have the same views as others. I am a native born american and I follow what H.I.M. sanctioned only not the belief of the "Rasta" community.  You must realize that there are numerous sects of Rastafari who associate with different beliefs. Se'Lah!!!
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« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2010, 04:28:29 PM »

Yes, I understand this brother.  Rasta is a trod, not a religious creed per se, but you must understand that the correct faith, the orthodoxia, as far as His Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I was concerned, was Orthodox Christianity.  Tewahedo is a reference to the one, united nature of Christ (fully human and fully Divine) and nothing else.  His Majesty didn't come to the West to establish masonic lodges or anything else, but rather to bring the lost sheep of the African diaspora home to the one true Faith as he understood it...Orthodox Christianity.

Please do examine the website, and investigate the life of Abune Yesehaq, the priest sent by His Majesty to the West for this very purpose, to understand this.  The following sites may be helpful:

http://www.abbayesehaq.com/home.htm
http://dubroom.org/articles/0002.htm
http://www.jamaicans.com/culture/rasta/interview_AbundaYesehaq.shtml
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Abune-Yesehaq-Memorial-Page/114519085251739
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfQgpujWdk8
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/africanorthodoxchurches/
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7013790353680616142#
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« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2010, 04:43:05 PM »

Bless'ed Love Mi Don, I agree whole heartedly he didnt come to America to start lodges however He did send Doctor Malaku Bayen to establish what you are referring to as far as the diaspora however he sent Marcus Selassie(Solomon Wolfe) Chaplain and High Priest to create the two Melchizedek Orders Local #2 LA California and Local #18 Norfolk, Virginia as Benevolent Melchizedek Orders.  Se'lah!!!
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« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2010, 04:52:11 PM »

Dear Brother,

The E.W.F. was a secular not-for-profit designed to promote Black unity and (at the time it was established) to help with the expulsion of the Fascist invaders of Ethiopia.  It is not a religious order.  His Majesty appointed (not annointed) certain laymen to hold certain functions in this civic organization.  It is not a religious body and neither Dr. Bayen nor Mr. Wolfe were invested by His Majesty with any clerical orders, as such is not a function the Emperor would be able to perform.

From the website of E.W.F. Melkezedek Order #2 in Los Angeles:

http://www.ewfla.org/index.html

PROFILE OF THE ORGANIZATION

The Ethiopian World Federation, Incorporated, is a not-for-profit membership organization, incorporated in the State of New York, United States of America and registered by the Internal Revenue Services as a 501 (C) 4  (civic- league, social welfare) making the organization, tax exempt.

This organization came into being on August 25, 1937 in New York City, through the efforts of Black Americans who sent a delegation consisting of three prominent Harlem figures, all leaders of the black organization known as the United Aid for Ethiopia. Reverend William Lloyd Imes, Pastor of the prestigious St. James Presbyterian Church, Philip M. Savory of the Victory Insurance Company and co-owner of the New York Amsterdam News, and Mr. Cyril M Philp, secretary of the United Aid, sailed to England in the summer of 1936 to speak with H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I concerning financial matters.

In response, the Emperor empowered his personal physician Dr. Malaku E. Bayen to establish the Ethiopian World Federation, Incorporated with the purpose set out in the following preamble:

“We the Black People of the World, in order to effect Unity, Solidarity, Liberty, Freedom and self-determination, to secure Justice and maintain the Integrity of Ethiopia, which is our divine heritage, do hereby establish and ordain this constitution for The Ethiopian World Federation, Incorporated”.

The Constitution and By-Laws is, as one would expect, a very careful and businesslike document, having articles which deal with aims and objects, membership, international officers and their duties, conventions, elections, meetings, local units, their establishment and organization, committees, impeachment of officers, units, benefits, amendments, order of business, etc.

As a direct result of the support Ethiopia received from black people in the West during the Italian invasion 1935-1941, the Emperor granted five (5) Gashas of land in Shashamanne, Ethiopia, to The E.W.F. Inc., for Ethiopian people in the Diaspora who desired to return to the motherland. In 1970, H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I personally appointed Ras. Marcus Selassie (Solomon Wolfe), Director of The E.W.F. Charter # 43 in Jamaica, administrator of the “Land Grant”.

The major goal of The Ethiopian World Federation, Incorporated is inherent in the name of the organization. The Ethiopian (meaning all Black people), World (everywhere), Federation (autonomous groups working together), desiring to do all we can to restore the continent of Ethiopia-Africa to her former state of complete independence and self-reliance thereby effecting a social and economic betterment of the race everywhere.  

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« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2010, 05:16:48 PM »

Bless'ed Love, by posting this you see that as it states it was started by and for Black Americans to conduct business abroad get all affairs in order and come home(repatriation)  the A.U. was created to restore Africa.  Also the info tells of the history of the organisation however it does not speak on what he Marcus Selassie was comissioned to do but what appointment he was given in the Land Grant him being one of the only people to return with H.I.M. when asked.  He Remains there on the Land Grant till this day.  He came to the states in '05 to re-establish a disfunctional organisation.  So are you stating that Marcus Selassie is not an Intenational Chaplain and High Priest?  Are you a current member of the E.W.F.?
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« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2010, 05:27:00 PM »

Brother, I don't know what this man calls himself and what titles he claims, but I do know some things for certain:

1.) His Majesty Haile Selassie is not and was never a High Priest.

2.) His Majesty would not and could not annoint anyone else a High Priest.

People are free to call themselves whatever they like, but if people claim to be part of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church, then people are bound to judge them by the standards of that body, and by the standards of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church, neither Emperor Haile Selassie nor any of these gentlemen you're referring to are "high priests".

For Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Christians, Christ is the High Priest, and no one is above Him, not even Melchizedek.

Peace & Love, as always.
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« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2010, 05:34:03 PM »

Well hey since Im so lost prey for me bredren.  According to you I need it. Se'lah
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« Reply #37 on: July 16, 2010, 05:58:52 PM »

Pray for me as well, brother.  We all need it.  And please, investigate for yourself what we've discussed here.  God has a reason for every discussion that takes place.  I invite you to visit a real Orthodox Tewahedo Church in your area.  You said you're in Virginia, right?  There are plenty of churches of the Orthodox Tewahedo tradition close by.

Quite a few Ethiopian Churches in DC and Alexandria.  See here:

http://www.globalgoodnews.org/Ethiopian_Orthodox_Churches.htm

And a Coptic Church very close by in Hampton:

St. George Coptic Orthodox Church
189 Semple Farm Road
Hampton, VA 23666-1454
(757) 865-2040

Not to mention these others:

http://www.coptic.org/north_am.htm


One Love everytime
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« Reply #38 on: July 16, 2010, 06:04:50 PM »

Beloved Will Do just as you have asked me to study what you have put before me I ask the same of you research what Ive said to you.  If one religon had all the keys already then there would be no need for numerous.  We all fall short of the glory and hopefully our desire to seek the Father will in the end save us from anihilation. Se'lah!!!
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« Reply #39 on: July 16, 2010, 06:11:20 PM »

Ras Salem,

Peace and Love. You say you seek the Father. Do you also seek the Son and the Holy Spirit? Do you view His Majesty as the Father or the Son? On what authority do you base your beliefs?

Sorry for all the questions. I'm not trying to interrogate you. Just trying to overstand more about your views.

Give thanks.


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« Reply #40 on: July 16, 2010, 06:15:48 PM »

Beloved Will Do just as you have asked me to study what you have put before me I ask the same of you research what Ive said to you.  If one religon had all the keys already then there would be no need for numerous.  We all fall short of the glory and hopefully our desire to seek the Father will in the end save us from anihilation. Se'lah!!!

Brother, I promise I'll investigate all you've asked me to, but I don't believe the multiplicity of religions on this globe is what Our Father wanted, but rather a result of the fall of man and our stiff-neckedness.  I believe He wanted us all to be one.  One love, one heart, one aim, one destiny, one Faith.  Peace & Love every single time.
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« Reply #41 on: July 16, 2010, 06:22:03 PM »

One love, one heart, one aim, one destiny, one Faith.  Peace & Love every single time.

Yes Beloved in that respect we are all "Tewahido"(made one)
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« Reply #42 on: July 16, 2010, 06:47:41 PM »

Yes Beloved in that respect we are all "Tewahido"(made one)

LOL. Do you even know what doctrine Tewahedo really refers to?
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« Reply #43 on: July 16, 2010, 06:49:16 PM »

are you asking sarcastically since you laughed or because you are about enlightenment?
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« Reply #44 on: July 16, 2010, 06:51:46 PM »

I would be interested to know what Tewahedo means to you.

If it is different to that which the Orthodox Tewahedo Church teaches then do you think that matters? Can you be Orthodox Tewahedo if you do not teach what the Orthodox Tewahedo Church teaches?

I say that sincerely and with no sarcasm.

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« Reply #45 on: July 16, 2010, 06:55:22 PM »

Does it bother you that I have a different interpretation of Christ and thats why you are still inquiring?  Hey if you feel that Im so lost go to the Father and prey for me Bloved. Se'lah
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« Reply #46 on: July 16, 2010, 07:00:28 PM »

are you asking sarcastically since you laughed or because you are about enlightenment?

I asked because you used the word in a way that is different from what the EOTC means by it.
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« Reply #47 on: July 16, 2010, 07:03:17 PM »

So because my explanation doesnt match what the EOTC is saying verbatim that means its different and not one in the same because of how I stated it.?
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« Reply #48 on: July 16, 2010, 07:04:43 PM »

So because my explanation doesnt match what the EOTC is saying verbatim that means its different and not one in the same because of how I stated it.?

I don't know that your beliefs are distinct from the EOTC in this matter. I know that you used the word "Tewahedo" to refer to something different. As a consequence, I am wondering if you know what the EOTC means by Tewahedo when it uses it in its title?
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« Reply #49 on: July 16, 2010, 07:06:47 PM »

Do you speak Amharic?  I used the word in its accuracy according to the translation of the word in that language.
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« Reply #50 on: July 16, 2010, 07:08:03 PM »

Do you speak Amharic?  I used the word in its accuracy according to the translation of the word in that language.

I am not talking about the general meaning of the word, but rather the particular meaning that is indicated in the title of the EOTC.
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« Reply #51 on: July 16, 2010, 07:13:46 PM »

as someone has stated to me we can only go by definition and not an interpretation of a defintion.  Its so amazing to me how one man has caused so much turmoil amongst my Father's children........
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« Reply #52 on: July 16, 2010, 07:24:30 PM »

as someone has stated to me we can only go by definition and not an interpretation of a defintion.  Its so amazing to me how one man has caused so much turmoil amongst my Father's children........

There is often more than one definition and usage of one word.
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« Reply #53 on: July 16, 2010, 08:12:58 PM »

Ras Salem,

Peace and Love. You say you seek the Father. Do you also seek the Son and the Holy Spirit? Do you view His Majesty as the Father or the Son? On what authority do you base your beliefs?

Sorry for all the questions. I'm not trying to interrogate you. Just trying to overstand more about your views.

Give thanks.


Selam
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« Reply #54 on: July 16, 2010, 09:17:12 PM »

Bless'ed Love Bredren.  Indeed I seek the trinity.  A lot of Rastas see H.I.M. as the Father however he is not.  He is the son like you are the son as well as I and all other men on this earth.  We are his sons and daughters as the Father has stated.  Jesus is not the Father he is the Son making him our brother not our Father.  The Holy spirit dwells within us all.  It's amazing to me that people cannot see the example that the Father has set before us.  Question why did Christ pass thru the womb instead of poppin up out of thin air like Melchizedek,Adam and Eve?  Why do you think that the Son of God had to pass thru a womb?  The answer is the Father wanted us all to understand that whosoever he has given life to(all those that have pass thru the womb of a woman) are indeed his children and can call upon him and he will give them his right hand.  The word does not say Jesus will sit at my right hand till I make his enemies his footstool. It says "sit at my right hand till I make thine enemies thine footstool.  It is an open invitation to all and any that will keep the commandments and statutes. Psalms 110 does not name Jesus it merely names the Priesthood.  So in conclusion the Father who lives in the Third Realm of Zion(Heaven) is the creator the true Father.  The Son refers to all of his sons not just one. The Holy Spirit dwells within us all (Breath of Life).  If Christ is the Father then whom was he referring to as his Father?  Did the Angel who came to visit Mary to tell her of her unborn child that he(the Angel) was sent by the child in her stomach to tell her that he(the child) in her stomach was coming?  Clearly if Christ himself acknowleged the Father, doesn't that hold some type of significance?  He clearly stated that there was a difference between himself and the Father. He never spoke of himself.  So we are all his sons and can call upon his name and sit at his right hand as Priest kings and Queens.  Christ is the only one who has gotten this right to the letter and the only one of his sons that he has come for so far.  begotten means "to come for" not "to send."  Now I love Christ and would never tear him down or put him down but are we putting him down by not fully understanding Christ mission?  Not truely understanding why the Father "sent" his son thru the womb of a woman and turned around and came for him but didnt destroy the whole earth for what they did.  Im sure that the clergy will agree that there is a difference between a sin that a man commits against another man and a sin commited against the Father personally. this is what they did by crucifieing him(Christ).  They sinned against the Father which is why he(Christ) asked the Father to forgive them because he could see that they were truelly lost children whose spirit seperated so far from the Father that they could not see the light(Christ) before their very eyes. Se'lah
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« Reply #55 on: July 17, 2010, 11:39:14 AM »

Dearest brother.  This is not the understanding of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church.

There is a distinction between the Only Begotten Son of God - God the Son - of one Divine essence with His Father, and us, the children of God, who are human only and in no way Divine.

God the Son is uncreated, without begininng and without end.  We are created and limited.

All things were made through God the Logos, Who is of course the Our selfsame Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ, so we can say that He is Our Father, although we do not say that He is God the Father.

Adam and Eve were not created out of thing air, but rather Adam was made from the earth and Eve from Adam's rib.  Why was Our Lord Jesus Christ, the New Adam, born from Our Lady St. Mary?  To take our flesh unto Himself and thus to redeem us through His sacrifice.  He humbled Himself and took our flesh not because we are his equals (we are not) but in order that we, the fallen children of Adam and Eve, might be saved.

To sin against Christ is not merely to sin against another man, as He, being God the Son in flesh, is so much more than this.

Conflating God the Father and God the Son, as you do by saying things along the lines of "Did the Angel who came to visit Mary to tell her of her unborn child that he(the Angel) was sent by the child in her stomach to tell her that he(the child) in her stomach was coming?" does not make any Person of the Holy Trinity any less Divine.

Do you understand that God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are not God the Father, but are God nonetheless?
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« Reply #56 on: July 17, 2010, 08:57:01 PM »

I never said that I was giving the answer of the church.  I dont represent the church never said I did. He asked my views not teachings.  He asked if I believed if H.I.M. is the father or the son and if I seeked the trinity.  Now see this is why I choose not to continue with the conversations held about this.  I never said I was a member of EOTC clergy and its amazing to me how everyone is so quick to correct me about how I choose to answer a question that was asked of me not a church not an order or a priesthood but me a man.  never said I was preaching to people never said I was here to correct anyone or be corrected you have your views I have mine.  I know of the one nature of Christ I know of Christ and who he is.  Now if you feel that what I say goes against what you feel or say by all means prey for me and I for you. I will change my profile and then maybe then since I dont label my knowledge as the oness of OUR lord not just yours or mine or the EOTC but the textbook definition of Tewahido referring to the one nature of Christ totally against Nestorianism and views of the such, then everyone can rest their minds about it. To believe in Nestorius is basically saying that Christ is a schizophreniac and we all know that he is not.  So I'll ask again am I upsetting those Im not even having a conversation with by expressing my views.  My profile says Orthodox Tewahido Judaisim/Christianity.  Not EOTC.  go and look at all my post not one of them says EOTC.  Our religion the one you know is yours and the one I know is mine are one in the same knowing that christ is not two but one.  Trinity or Triune means three points regardless of whether you feel the three points represented here are Men, Spirits, God, Sections of God, Gnomes, Persopa, etc. there are still three distinct differences between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.  He acknowledged our Father as we still do today.  He is spoken of as the Son not the only begotton Father. So according to MY information the teachings of the order I am a part of not the EOTC but the Melchizedek Order it is about religion but more about information considering the fact that it is so old there were no other religions being practiced at the same time so the text goes unchanged. The Triune God is indeed three in one but still three distinct points which is why it is the Trinity, and a title for each point.  Father, Son Holy Spirit....Se'lah
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« Reply #57 on: July 17, 2010, 08:59:03 PM »

Adam and Eve were not created out of thing air, but rather Adam was made from the earth and Eve from Adam's rib.


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The point is Melchizedek, Adam , and Eve did not pass thru the womb as the rest of us have including Christ... Se'lah
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« Reply #58 on: July 17, 2010, 09:03:46 PM »

All things were made through God the Logos, Who is of course the Our selfsame Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ, so we can say that He is Our Father, although we do not say that He is God the Father.


Bless'ed Love To All

He asked if I seeked the Trinity not Christ in refrence to the Trinity.  The question never involved Christ.  I gave the explanation of the Trinity as it has been taught by the ORDER not the EOTC.  Maybe if I clarify that which I thought I did when asked numerous times about the info its source everyone will not be so offended about what is said on My behalf.  not a group or anything but me.
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« Reply #59 on: July 18, 2010, 10:40:13 AM »

I never said that I was giving the answer of the church.  I dont represent the church never said I did. He asked my views not teachings.  He asked if I believed if H.I.M. is the father or the son and if I seeked the trinity.  Now see this is why I choose not to continue with the conversations held about this.  I never said I was a member of EOTC clergy and its amazing to me how everyone is so quick to correct me about how I choose to answer a question that was asked of me not a church not an order or a priesthood but me a man.  never said I was preaching to people never said I was here to correct anyone or be corrected you have your views I have mine.  I know of the one nature of Christ I know of Christ and who he is.  Now if you feel that what I say goes against what you feel or say by all means prey for me and I for you. I will change my profile and then maybe then since I dont label my knowledge as the oness of OUR lord not just yours or mine or the EOTC but the textbook definition of Tewahido referring to the one nature of Christ totally against Nestorianism and views of the such, then everyone can rest their minds about it. To believe in Nestorius is basically saying that Christ is a schizophreniac and we all know that he is not.  So I'll ask again am I upsetting those Im not even having a conversation with by expressing my views.  My profile says Orthodox Tewahido Judaisim/Christianity.  Not EOTC.  go and look at all my post not one of them says EOTC.  Our religion the one you know is yours and the one I know is mine are one in the same knowing that christ is not two but one.  Trinity or Triune means three points regardless of whether you feel the three points represented here are Men, Spirits, God, Sections of God, Gnomes, Persopa, etc. there are still three distinct differences between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.  He acknowledged our Father as we still do today.  He is spoken of as the Son not the only begotton Father. So according to MY information the teachings of the order I am a part of not the EOTC but the Melchizedek Order it is about religion but more about information considering the fact that it is so old there were no other religions being practiced at the same time so the text goes unchanged. The Triune God is indeed three in one but still three distinct points which is why it is the Trinity, and a title for each point.  Father, Son Holy Spirit....Se'lah

Okay, so then tell us about this order you claim to be a part of and where it gets these teachings about the concept of trinity representing God, gnomes, and persopa (?), the Lord Jesus as inferior to Melchizedek, and so forth, as I know that His Majesty Haile Selassie never taught any such thing.

When queried about the order earlier, you told us about the establishment of the secular organization the E.W.F., but not about any ancient religious order, which is what you originally implied.

So since you said you wanted to be questioned about the history of your organization and how you as an individual came to believe what you believe, as opposed to comparing what you believe to what Haile Selassie and other Orthodox Christians actually believe, by all means, have at it.  Tell us about your trod.
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« Reply #60 on: July 18, 2010, 01:31:57 PM »

Okay, so then tell us about this order you claim to be a part of and where it gets these teachings about the concept of trinity representing God, gnomes, and persopa (?), the Lord Jesus as inferior to Melchizedek, and so forth, as I know that His Majesty Haile Selassie never taught any such thing.


Bless'ed Love To All

Wow this is some conversation we are having..........Now lets make sure that you let the whole website know that YOU said that Christ is inferior to Melchizedek I never said that.  Now if you wanna know then ask in true inquiry not skepticism.  Now when you ready to have a conversation and not a childish debate about whose right or wrong by all means come forward with the DISCUSSION otherwise back up off me and MY order because as you stated we feel that Christ is inferior so why would you wanna know anything about that.....Se'lah
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« Reply #61 on: July 18, 2010, 01:34:01 PM »

When queried about the order earlier, you told us about the establishment of the secular organization the E.W.F., but not about any ancient religious order, which is what you originally implied.


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The question was how did I become a member and I answered.  The EWF is how this Local not the Order was established and thats why the EWF was spoken of.  Nothing Else Se'lah
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« Reply #62 on: July 18, 2010, 01:40:00 PM »

So since you said you wanted to be questioned about the history of your organization and how you as an individual came to believe what you believe, as opposed to comparing what you believe to what Haile Selassie and other Orthodox Christians actually believe, by all means, have at it.  Tell us about your trod.

Bless'ed Love To All

  Wow I would like to thank you for this indetailed conversation that you spoke so highly of that we're having its truely showing your character, age and intelect.  I never said question me I said if you dont believe the information question it.  search for yourself.  As you stated I definitly have it all wrong so why would you wanna know anything about it.  Have you preyed for me yet?  I for you everyday even before I met you or came to this website.  I never quoted H.I.M. I spoke in reference to H.I.M. anyhow like Ive already said if what I say is so incorrect then you find the source because honestly if I were you feeling the way you have already stated you feel about the info why entertain such things....Se'lah
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« Reply #63 on: July 18, 2010, 02:51:39 PM »

Okay, so then tell us about this order you claim to be a part of and where it gets these teachings about the concept of trinity representing God, gnomes, and persopa

Bless'ed Love To All

   It doesnt consist of these terms.  These terms are used in refrence to the discussion of Nestorius which created the East West Schism which sets the stage for the "Made One" concept.  My Order is more than 10,000 years old and has only been in the hands of the Masters of Light only written in two languages Ge'ez and Amharic transmuted/translated to English verbatim. So at the time that the text that I read was written is before Adam,Moses,Noah,etc.  This is why it is stated that the Melchizedek Order was "stablished" not "established". The promises given to us his(the Father) children were stablished meaning before the earth was created not established after the earth was physically constructed.  If the earth was created for the family of Man then the plans for earth aleady consisted of our presence here in its schematics before the Father started construction.  The text speeks of the Triune God and its definitive three points of reference and speaks nothing of the Son in general(Name,place of birth or mother and father), but of one of the three points of the Triune God labeled as the Son....Se'lah
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« Reply #64 on: July 18, 2010, 02:57:40 PM »

What evidence do you have that your order is more than 10,000 years old?
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« Reply #65 on: July 18, 2010, 05:15:43 PM »

What evidence do you have that your order is more than 10,000 years old?

He has no evidence, for the EOTC Church teaches that the earth is only 7,000 years old.



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« Reply #66 on: July 18, 2010, 06:17:59 PM »

If the world is only 7000 years old how did they find human remains more than 3 million years old in Ethiopia......Se'lah
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« Reply #67 on: July 18, 2010, 06:20:55 PM »

What evidence do you have that your order is more than 10,000 years old?


Bless'ed Love To All

What evidence do you have it is not.  I cannot believe that this man said that the Earth is only 7000 thosuand years old when artifacts have shown to be more than that in age themselves.  Narmer the Scorpian King was 3400B.C. which is about 5000 years ago and you say civilization began only 2000 years before that wow?................ Se'lah
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« Reply #68 on: July 18, 2010, 07:53:03 PM »

Okay, so then tell us about this order you claim to be a part of and where it gets these teachings about the concept of trinity representing God, gnomes, and persopa (?), the Lord Jesus as inferior to Melchizedek, and so forth, as I know that His Majesty Haile Selassie never taught any such thing.


Bless'ed Love To All

Wow this is some conversation we are having..........Now lets make sure that you let the whole website know that YOU said that Christ is inferior to Melchizedek I never said that.  Now if you wanna know then ask in true inquiry not skepticism.  Now when you ready to have a conversation and not a childish debate about whose right or wrong by all means come forward with the DISCUSSION otherwise back up off me and MY order because as you stated we feel that Christ is inferior so why would you wanna know anything about that.....Se'lah

Your attempts at sarcasm are getting downright funny.  You came on here making all kinds of outlandish claims as if they were authoritative and as if you were going to teach those here.  

Stuff about fictional Masonic orders that never existed, about an order that “predates all current forms so the changes are younger than the origional info of ancient times that I have been taught” and yet seems to have really originated with a guy who chased you down the street in the Southern United States, claims that “Judaism started in the land of Salem(mesopatamia)ancient times.  At this time Mesopotemia was in the african region of Sheba not modern day Iran” when Salem (Jerusalem) was never in Mesopotamia and Mesopotamia was never in Iran, Africa, or Sheba (Saba).

You implied that Christ was merely a “son of God” in the sense that all of us are and that Melchizedek was more unique and superior in that he supposedly had a more miraculous birth and now you’re making a ridiculous leap in endeavoring to assign that statement to me.

And finally, you’re “taking your ball and going home” because you don’t like to be contradicted, but yet and still, I’ll bet your ego will compel you to reply to this posting nonetheless, even if it’s just to try to tell people to “back up off” you because you have nothing more to offer by way of facts.

You don’t want to debate?  Look at the first post in all of these threads.  You INVITED debate by coming on to an Orthodox Christian message board and making authoritative posts that contradict Orthodox theology.  In truth, did you really expect people to allow such statements to stand unchallenged?  Or were you expecting people to be met with a chorus of affirmation?

When queried about the order earlier, you told us about the establishment of the secular organization the E.W.F., but not about any ancient religious order, which is what you originally implied.


Bless'ed Love To All

The question was how did I become a member and I answered.  The EWF is how this Local not the Order was established and thats why the EWF was spoken of.  Nothing Else Se'lah



Can you prove this?  Where is the traceable, unbroken line of this order in history?

So since you said you wanted to be questioned about the history of your organization and how you as an individual came to believe what you believe, as opposed to comparing what you believe to what Haile Selassie and other Orthodox Christians actually believe, by all means, have at it.  Tell us about your trod.

Bless'ed Love To All

  Wow I would like to thank you for this indetailed conversation that you spoke so highly of that we're having its truely showing your character, age and intelect.  I never said question me I said if you dont believe the information question it.  search for yourself.  As you stated I definitly have it all wrong so why would you wanna know anything about it.  Have you preyed for me yet?  I for you everyday even before I met you or came to this website.  I never quoted H.I.M. I spoke in reference to H.I.M. anyhow like Ive already said if what I say is so incorrect then you find the source because honestly if I were you feeling the way you have already stated you feel about the info why entertain such things....Se'lah

Or perhaps your numerous spelling and grammatical errors, as well as making up words like “persopa”, “indetailed” and others speak to your level of education, and your pettiness speaks to your “character, age, and intellect.  No one said you quoted His Majesty, but you misrepresented His Majesty by claiming he was a “high priest” who “anointed” others as high priests, which is patently false.

Okay, so then tell us about this order you claim to be a part of and where it gets these teachings about the concept of trinity representing God, gnomes, and persopa

Bless'ed Love To All

   It doesnt consist of these terms.  These terms are used in refrence to the discussion of Nestorius which created the East West Schism which sets the stage for the "Made One" concept.  My Order is more than 10,000 years old and has only been in the hands of the Masters of Light only written in two languages Ge'ez and Amharic transmuted/translated to English verbatim. So at the time that the text that I read was written is before Adam,Moses,Noah,etc.  This is why it is stated that the Melchizedek Order was "stablished" not "established". The promises given to us his(the Father) children were stablished meaning before the earth was created not established after the earth was physically constructed.  If the earth was created for the family of Man then the plans for earth aleady consisted of our presence here in its schematics before the Father started construction.  The text speeks of the Triune God and its definitive three points of reference and speaks nothing of the Son in general(Name,place of birth or mother and father), but of one of the three points of the Triune God labeled as the Son....Se'lah

Now you’re making up terms and misrepresenting history, but perhaps this is due to a lack of proper education in the matter.  “Persopa” was not part of the vocabulary employed by either Nestorius or the Fathers who refuted him.  Perhaps you’re thinking of prosopon?  Or are you going to claim someone is misrepresenting you again?  Or that you merely have another interpretation than we have, complete with its own spelling?  And how do you think you can discuss the Triune God without discussing the Second Person of the Trinity?

Answer Fr. Peter’s question?  Where is the proof that such an ancient order ever existed?  The answer you gave him was a cop out, and the burden of proof is on you.
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« Reply #69 on: July 18, 2010, 08:10:03 PM »

but the textbook definition of Tewahido referring to the one nature of Christ totally against Nestorianism and views of the such,

This makes absolutely no sense if you don't believe that Christ is the Only-Begotten Son of God.
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« Reply #70 on: July 18, 2010, 08:11:28 PM »

He is spoken of as the Son not the only begotton Father.

I don't know where you are getting this idea. No one here is calling Jesus the Father. But we are calling Him the Only Begotten Son.
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« Reply #71 on: July 18, 2010, 08:39:35 PM »

Your attempts at sarcasm are getting downright funny.  You came on here making all kinds of outlandish claims as if they were authoritative and as if you were going to teach those here

Bless'ed Love To All,

No actually Im trying not to say things to you that another man who has love for all would say to another so by no means are they funny.  From what I see and have been instructed this is a forum a place where people come to express their views.  I ascerted no authority you and others just didnt like what I said and YOU took offense not me which is why we are entertaining this......Se'lah
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« Reply #72 on: July 18, 2010, 08:43:58 PM »

Stuff about fictional Masonic orders that never existed, about an order that “predates all current forms so the changes are younger than the origional info of ancient times that I have been taught” and yet seems to have really originated with a guy who chased you down the street in the Southern United States, claims that “Judaism started in the land of Salem(mesopatamia)ancient times.  At this time Mesopotemia was in the african region of Sheba not modern day Iran” when Salem (Jerusalem) was never in Mesopotamia and Mesopotamia was never in Iran, Africa, or Sheba (Saba).


Bless'ed Love To All,

Look for yourself at the order I dont have to entertain this part because I didnt create the Melchizedek Order.   I never said a man chased me anywhere the member non gendered, was a woman and she led me to the EWF not the order.  As stated before look for yourself which you have not.  you clearly took offense when you shouldnt have if you know your word and have truely studied....Se'lah
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« Reply #73 on: July 18, 2010, 08:48:51 PM »

You implied that Christ was merely a “son of God” in the sense that all of us are and that Melchizedek was more unique and superior in that he supposedly had a more miraculous birth and now you’re making a ridiculous leap in endeavoring to assign that statement to me.


Bless'ed Love To All,

   No I did not. I stated that he is the only one of his(the Father) children that he has come for.  begotten means to "come for" and not "to send".  I never said any of that I spoke of Melchizedek and who he is and how he came to be present on Earth.  Look for yourself Heb. 7 the whole chapter is about him in all books. Also I didnt write the bible so I didnt make Christ a Melchizedek the Father did.  And you as I and everyone here can see the you have no clue what I speak of so why would I assign ascert anything to you....Se'lah
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« Reply #74 on: July 18, 2010, 08:52:41 PM »

And finally, you’re “taking your ball and going home” because you don’t like to be contradicted, but yet and still, I’ll bet your ego will compel you to reply to this posting nonetheless, even if it’s just to try to tell people to “back up off” you because you have nothing more to offer by way of facts.


Bless'ed Love To All,

  actually I didnt take the ball and go home but instead I put it away because I see that your parents taught you no home training when it comes to playing with others.  And ego I dont have information that you cant contradict I do have I never said I was gong anywhere I asked did I need to leave.  the information that I stated is public info so prove yourself to be worthy by studying....The facts are there.....Se'lah
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« Reply #75 on: July 18, 2010, 08:56:44 PM »

Or perhaps your numerous spelling and grammatical errors, as well as making up words like “persopa”, “indetailed” and others speak to your level of education, and your pettiness speaks to your “character, age, and intellect.  No one said you quoted His Majesty, but you misrepresented His Majesty by claiming he was a “high priest” who “anointed” others as high priests, which is patently false.

Bless'ed Love To All,
   well see I would rather be correct with information than grammatics this is a forum not a script.  Its funny how all you can do is speak about H.I.M. and about my order however you cannot refute Melchizedek.  Is there a reason that you stray away from this subject.  You wanna know how did I find such info in stead of seeing if the info is true which shows that you obviously dont believe what you claim you know about religion otherwise what I say wouldnt threaten you so. Se'lah
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« Reply #76 on: July 18, 2010, 09:00:41 PM »

   No I did not. I stated that he is the only one of his(the Father) children that he has come for.  begotten means to "come for" and not "to send".

Huh? Are you espousing Adoptionism here?

Also, definition of beget:

"1.  To father; sire.
2. To cause to exist or occur; produce"

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/beget

I have no idea where you came up with your definition.
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« Reply #77 on: July 18, 2010, 09:02:19 PM »

Now you’re making up terms and misrepresenting history, but perhaps this is due to a lack of proper education in the matter.  “Persopa” was not part of the vocabulary employed by either Nestorius or the Fathers who refuted him.  Perhaps you’re thinking of prosopon?  Or are you going to claim someone is misrepresenting you again?  Or that you merely have another interpretation than we have, complete with its own spelling?  And how do you think you can discuss the Triune God without discussing the Second Person of the Trinity?

Now this shows that you are insecure in your Christianity your response here.  These are terms inreference to the spirit not nestorius I never said that either.  I simply gave you numerous names to one thing just in case your mind wanted to ask what I was referring to so I gave numerous names.  Now show me a word that I said was false not grammatically spelled right but was a false word that you cant look up right now.  example right now go anywhere and look up Melchizedek,Brotherhood of the White Light, or anything else I have spoken of and you tell me it says that this info does not exist....you look it up because you havent yet......  that way when you and Father Peter read it for yourselves it will no longer be the information you think I know but public information...Se'lah
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« Reply #78 on: July 18, 2010, 09:06:29 PM »

Bless'ed Love To All,

Refute the Melchizedek Order.  Until then what you say shows that you are insecure.  Look up the public information dont believe me.  You and everyone else got real personal as if I came here and said you are all wrong I didnt.  So dont feel so threaten by what I say if what you know is the truth and the absolute truth, right? ..Se'lah
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« Reply #79 on: July 18, 2010, 09:28:22 PM »

Your attempts at sarcasm are getting downright funny.  You came on here making all kinds of outlandish claims as if they were authoritative and as if you were going to teach those here

Bless'ed Love To All,

No actually Im trying not to say things to you that another man who has love for all would say to another so by no means are they funny.  From what I see and have been instructed this is a forum a place where people come to express their views.  I ascerted no authority you and others just didnt like what I said and YOU took offense not me which is why we are entertaining this......Se'lah

No, check the very first post you made.  You came off like some sort of an authority privy to a hidden knowledge that others in the world generally didn't have.  However, most of this seems to have had no basis in any authentic ancient tradition.

Stuff about fictional Masonic orders that never existed, about an order that “predates all current forms so the changes are younger than the origional info of ancient times that I have been taught” and yet seems to have really originated with a guy who chased you down the street in the Southern United States, claims that “Judaism started in the land of Salem(mesopatamia)ancient times.  At this time Mesopotemia was in the african region of Sheba not modern day Iran” when Salem (Jerusalem) was never in Mesopotamia and Mesopotamia was never in Iran, Africa, or Sheba (Saba).


Bless'ed Love To All,

Look for yourself at the order I dont have to entertain this part because I didnt create the Melchizedek Order.   I never said a man chased me anywhere the member non gendered, was a woman and she led me to the EWF not the order.  As stated before look for yourself which you have not.  you clearly took offense when you shouldnt have if you know your word and have truely studied....Se'lah

Okay, so a woman chased you down the street.  It makes no difference.  You yourself conflated the E.W.F. with the so-called Melchizedek order and have used the terms interchangeably in your posts, even claiming that one of the founders of the E.W.F. is a High Priest of the Order anointed by Haile Selassie who was also a High Priest, however erroneous that may be.  So far, you have posted no proof that such an organization as the “Melchizedek Order” has existed for 10,000 years, and I notice you have no rebuttal for what I posted above concerning your ahistorical statements concerning Mesopotamia, et cetera.

You implied that Christ was merely a “son of God” in the sense that all of us are and that Melchizedek was more unique and superior in that he supposedly had a more miraculous birth and now you’re making a ridiculous leap in endeavoring to assign that statement to me.


Bless'ed Love To All,

   No I did not. I stated that he is the only one of his(the Father) children that he has come for.  begotten means to "come for" and not "to send".  I never said any of that I spoke of Melchizedek and who he is and how he came to be present on Earth.  Look for yourself Heb. 7 the whole chapter is about him in all books. Also I didnt write the bible so I didnt make Christ a Melchizedek the Father did.  And you as I and everyone here can see the you have no clue what I speak of so why would I assign ascert anything to you....Se'lah

There you go with the off-base definitions again!  And this one isn’t even a theological term like “Tewahedo” or “Orthodox”.  “Begotten” doesn’t mean “to come for” or “to send”.  Invest in a dictionary.  Begotten means generated by procreation.  In other words, the Father is the source of the Son.

And with this bit of babbling (“And you as I and everyone here can see the you have no clue what I speak of so why would I assign ascert anything to you”) you’ve reached a new level of nonsense and incomprehensibility .  “Ascert”?  Really?

And finally, you’re “taking your ball and going home” because you don’t like to be contradicted, but yet and still, I’ll bet your ego will compel you to reply to this posting nonetheless, even if it’s just to try to tell people to “back up off” you because you have nothing more to offer by way of facts.


Bless'ed Love To All,

  actually I didnt take the ball and go home but instead I put it away because I see that your parents taught you no home training when it comes to playing with others.  And ego I dont have information that you cant contradict I do have I never said I was gong anywhere I asked did I need to leave.  the information that I stated is public info so prove yourself to be worthy by studying....The facts are there.....Se'lah

In other words, you’ve realized that you have no factual information with which to sustain your argument and so you must resort to pathetic ad hominem attacks and again more babbling “I dont have information that you cant contradict I do have I never said I was gong anywhere..”
Or perhaps your numerous spelling and grammatical errors, as well as making up words like “persopa”, “indetailed” and others speak to your level of education, and your pettiness speaks to your “character, age, and intellect.  No one said you quoted His Majesty, but you misrepresented His Majesty by claiming he was a “high priest” who “anointed” others as high priests, which is patently false.

Bless'ed Love To All,
   well see I would rather be correct with information than grammatics this is a forum not a script.  Its funny how all you can do is speak about H.I.M. and about my order however you cannot refute Melchizedek.  Is there a reason that you stray away from this subject.  You wanna know how did I find such info in stead of seeing if the info is true which shows that you obviously dont believe what you claim you know about religion otherwise what I say wouldnt threaten you so. Se'lah

First of all, the two (grammar and information) are not mutually exclusive.  Secondly, you are incorrect and both.  Thirdly, I’ve refuted tons of what you’ve posted and you’ve declined to offer a cogent rebuttal on nearly everything, including your use of nonsense words like “persopa” and your bizarre statements about “gnomes” as part of the Christological dialogue.  Fourthly, I’ve already articulated the Orthodox understanding of Melchizedek, which has nothing to do with your nonsensical fantasies about some order he never established and which does not include His Majesty, Mr. Solomon, or you.  Fifthly, if you can’t understand the difference between Orthodox Christians defending the Orthodox understanding of things from your bizarre quasi-religious ramblings and someone being “threatened” by such, that’s your problem.

Now you’re making up terms and misrepresenting history, but perhaps this is due to a lack of proper education in the matter.  “Persopa” was not part of the vocabulary employed by either Nestorius or the Fathers who refuted him.  Perhaps you’re thinking of prosopon?  Or are you going to claim someone is misrepresenting you again?  Or that you merely have another interpretation than we have, complete with its own spelling?  And how do you think you can discuss the Triune God without discussing the Second Person of the Trinity?

Now this shows that you are insecure in your Christianity your response here.  These are terms inreference to the spirit not nestorius I never said that either.  I simply gave you numerous names to one thing just in case your mind wanted to ask what I was referring to so I gave numerous names.  Now show me a word that I said was false not grammatically spelled right but was a false word that you cant look up right now.  example right now go anywhere and look up Melchizedek,Brotherhood of the White Light, or anything else I have spoken of and you tell me it says that this info does not exist....you look it up because you havent yet......  that way when you and Father Peter read it for yourselves it will no longer be the information you think I know but public information...Se'lah

At first I gave you the benefit of the doubt about being deliberately obtuse, but now I see that you’re thick.  I never said you used such terms in reference to Nestorius, but that they were never part of the discussion he and his contemporaries had re: the Son.  They are NOT terms in reference to the “spirit”.  The Holy Spirit was not at issue in that particular debate..

You have indeed used made up words.  “Persopa” is not a word.  “Indetailed” is not a word.

And if you do a search for “Melchizedek Order” and “Brotherhood of the White Light” all that you come up with is Theosophy. Aleister Crowley, and the like, as below:

http://www.beyondreiki.com/about_us/brotherhood_of_light.html

The Brotherhood of Light
      The Brotherhood of Light was the name given to me when I began to realize my channel connection. The Brothers' original name is the ancient Order of Melchizedek. They have also been called, at different times in our history, the White Brotherhood and the Great White Brotherhood.

     In The Keys of Enoch, by J. J. Hurtak, the Brotherhood was defined as the earth's spiritual guardians, and the hierarchy guided thus: Lord Sananda (known in life as Jeshua Ben Joseph, and later as Jesus the Christ) heads the healing legions of Brothers, and Archangel Michael heads the warrior legions. Together, they are called the Paradise Sons. The warriors cut the ties, and the healers bind the wounds. So does Spirit support us in our healing, and on our individual path to ascending gracefully into the higher realms.

     The Brothers are also the scribes for Spirit, keepers of the Akashic Records. They perform diverse functions in the Divine Plan and include many levels of spiritual awareness. The Ascended Masters form the higher energetic layers of the Brotherhood, and yet they speak as We. Indeed, if All Is One, then they are all interrelated vibrational essences; any need for individual identification is a result of our dualistic views and pre-conditioned thinking. To them, we are all One, including Us!

     In the beginning, they called me little Master and little Brother. When I pointed out that I was female in this life (dualistic chuckle), they gave me the gift of my Spirit name, Sara, formed from the first two and last two letters of my Higher Self's name, Sanat Kumara. I work alone with the Brothers, and see myself as their scribe, their voice and their secretary. I hold no affiliation with any human group or organization currently teaching or representing the Melchizedek name or the White Brotherhood Priesthood.

     If you would like to read further about the Brotherhood of Light, I offer here a small list of books that I found to contain a balanced and unbiased history and theory of their teachings. Many blessings to all seekers, we are all One on the path back Home.
-- I Am, in All Love, Edna G. Frankel (Sara)
 
The Book of Knowledge: The Keys of Enoch by J.J. Hurtak, 1973, published by The Academy for Future science, PO Box FE, Los Gatos, CA 95031, ISBN# 09603450-4-3

Ancient Mystical White Brotherhood by Frater Achad (Rev. George Graham Price), 1971, Revised Fourth Edition 1991, by Great Seal Press Publisher, PO Box 10771, Phoenix, AZ 85064,
ISBN# 0-926872-02-8

Melchizedek Truth Principles by Frater Achad, 1988, 10th printing 1999, Great Seal Press Publisher, ISBN# 0-92672-01-X
If that’s the case, its no surprise your information contradicts the Orthodox Church, but that stuff is hardly ancient.  From wikipedia:
“In 1952, Geraldine Innocente, Messenger for The Bridge to Freedom, delivered this Address purported to be from Sanat Kumara describing the founding of the "Great White Brotherhood":
" . . . I had nothing to work with but Light and Love, and many centuries passed before even two lifestreams applied for membership - One, later became Buddha (now, Lord of the World, the Planetary Logos Gautama Buddha) and the Other, became the Cosmic Christ (Lord Maitreya, now the Planetary Buddha). The Brotherhood has grown through these ages and centuries until almost all the offices are held now by those belonging to the evolution of Earth and those who have volunteered to remain among her evolution. . .. " [21]
On July 4, 1954 it is believed that Sanat Kumara stated through Geraldine Innocente:
 . . . Thus We took Our abode upon the sweet Earth. Through the same power of centripetal and centrifugal force of which I spoke (cohesion and expansion of the magnetic power of Divine Love), We then began to magnetize the Flame in the hearts of some of the Guardian Spirits who were not sleeping so soundly and who were not too enthusiastically engaged in using primal life for the satisfaction of the personal self.
"In this way, the Great White Brotherhood began. The Three-fold Flame within the heart of Shamballa, within the Hearts of the Kumaras and Myself, formed the magnetic Heart of the Great White Brotherhood by Whom you have all been blessed and of which Brotherhood you all aspire to become conscious members. . . . " [22]

Bless'ed Love To All,

Refute the Melchizedek Order.  Until then what you say shows that you are insecure.  Look up the public information dont believe me.  You and everyone else got real personal as if I came here and said you are all wrong I didnt.  So dont feel so threaten by what I say if what you know is the truth and the absolute truth, right? ..Se'lah

It’s easily refuted, as it was apparently founded by new age gurus in the 20th century.  So now we’ve come to the root of things.  A lot of new age spiritualism.  And if you still don’t understand why it’s only natural for Orthodox Christian to contradict non-Orthodox, in fact non-Christian material on an Orthodox message board, that’s your problem.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 09:30:53 PM by Antonious Nikolas » Logged

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« Reply #80 on: July 18, 2010, 09:37:01 PM »

No, check the very first post you made.  You came off like some sort of an authority privy to a hidden knowledge that others in the world generally didn't have.  However, most of this seems to have had no basis in any authentic ancient tradition.


Bless'ed Love To All,

claimed no authority.  you still are upset.  you're insecure.  this is a forum where we express views.  where does it say that I was any authority.Se'lah
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« Reply #81 on: July 18, 2010, 09:39:46 PM »

Okay, so a woman chased you down the street.  It makes no difference.  You yourself conflated the E.W.F. with the so-called Melchizedek order and have used the terms interchangeably in your posts, even claiming that one of the founders of the E.W.F. is a High Priest of the Order anointed by Haile Selassie who was also a High Priest, however erroneous that may be.  So far, you have posted no proof that such an organization as the “Melchizedek Order” has existed for 10,000 years, and I notice you have no rebuttal for what I posted above concerning your ahistorical statements concerning Mesopotamia, et cetera.

Bless'ed Love To All,
  why debate public info.  maybe if you read it somewhere else instead of hearing it from me you will not think its me.  And you cant deny this info you havent looked it up otherwise you would be silent, and the information about Salem is also public info look it up which you still havent...Se'lah
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« Reply #82 on: July 18, 2010, 09:42:14 PM »

In other words, you’ve realized that you have no factual information with which to sustain your argument and so you must resort to pathetic ad hominem attacks and again more babbling “I dont have information that you cant contradict I do have I never said I was gong anywhere..”

Bless'ed Love To All,
  wow I really got you going huh.  LOL you've really taken out  a lot of time on this.  now you sure you not insecure cause If I were you knowing that what I say is true wouldnt you better suit your time preying for me because you know that my judgement is going to be great since Im spreading falsehoods...Se'lah
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« Reply #83 on: July 18, 2010, 09:45:09 PM »

At first I gave you the benefit of the doubt about being deliberately obtuse, but now I see that you’re thick.  I never said you used such terms in reference to Nestorius, but that they were never part of the discussion he and his contemporaries had re: the Son.  They are NOT terms in reference to the “spirit”.  The Holy Spirit was not at issue in that particular debate..

You have indeed used made up words.  “Persopa” is not a word.  “Indetailed” is not a word.

And if you do a search for “Melchizedek Order” and “Brotherhood of the White Light” all that you come up with is Theosophy. Aleister Crowley, and the like, as below:

http://www.beyondreiki.com/about_us/brotherhood_of_light.html

The Brotherhood of Light
      The Brotherhood of Light was the name given to me when I began to realize my channel connection. The Brothers' original name is the ancient Order of Melchizedek. They have also been called, at different times in our history, the White Brotherhood and the Great White Brotherhood.

     In The Keys of Enoch, by J. J. Hurtak, the Brotherhood was defined as the earth's spiritual guardians, and the hierarchy guided thus: Lord Sananda (known in life as Jeshua Ben Joseph, and later as Jesus the Christ) heads the healing legions of Brothers, and Archangel Michael heads the warrior legions. Together, they are called the Paradise Sons. The warriors cut the ties, and the healers bind the wounds. So does Spirit support us in our healing, and on our individual path to ascending gracefully into the higher realms.

     The Brothers are also the scribes for Spirit, keepers of the Akashic Records. They perform diverse functions in the Divine Plan and include many levels of spiritual awareness. The Ascended Masters form the higher energetic layers of the Brotherhood, and yet they speak as We. Indeed, if All Is One, then they are all interrelated vibrational essences; any need for individual identification is a result of our dualistic views and pre-conditioned thinking. To them, we are all One, including Us!

     In the beginning, they called me little Master and little Brother. When I pointed out that I was female in this life (dualistic chuckle), they gave me the gift of my Spirit name, Sara, formed from the first two and last two letters of my Higher Self's name, Sanat Kumara. I work alone with the Brothers, and see myself as their scribe, their voice and their secretary. I hold no affiliation with any human group or organization currently teaching or representing the Melchizedek name or the White Brotherhood Priesthood.

     If you would like to read further about the Brotherhood of Light, I offer here a small list of books that I found to contain a balanced and unbiased history and theory of their teachings. Many blessings to all seekers, we are all One on the path back Home.
-- I Am, in All Love, Edna G. Frankel (Sara)
 
The Book of Knowledge: The Keys of Enoch by J.J. Hurtak, 1973, published by The Academy for Future science, PO Box FE, Los Gatos, CA 95031, ISBN# 09603450-4-3

Ancient Mystical White Brotherhood by Frater Achad (Rev. George Graham Price), 1971, Revised Fourth Edition 1991, by Great Seal Press Publisher, PO Box 10771, Phoenix, AZ 85064,
ISBN# 0-926872-02-8

Melchizedek Truth Principles by Frater Achad, 1988, 10th printing 1999, Great Seal Press Publisher, ISBN# 0-92672-01-X
If that’s the case, its no surprise your information contradicts the Orthodox Church, but that stuff is hardly ancient.  From wikipedia:
“In 1952, Geraldine Innocente, Messenger for The Bridge to Freedom, delivered this Address purported to be from Sanat Kumara describing the founding of the "Great White Brotherhood":
" . . . I had nothing to work with but Light and Love, and many centuries passed before even two lifestreams applied for membership - One, later became Buddha (now, Lord of the World, the Planetary Logos Gautama Buddha) and the Other, became the Cosmic Christ (Lord Maitreya, now the Planetary Buddha). The Brotherhood has grown through these ages and centuries until almost all the offices are held now by those belonging to the evolution of Earth and those who have volunteered to remain among her evolution. . .. " [21]
On July 4, 1954 it is believed that Sanat Kumara stated through Geraldine Innocente:
 . . . Thus We took Our abode upon the sweet Earth. Through the same power of centripetal and centrifugal force of which I spoke (cohesion and expansion of the magnetic power of Divine Love), We then began to magnetize the Flame in the hearts of some of the Guardian Spirits who were not sleeping so soundly and who were not too enthusiastically engaged in using primal life for the satisfaction of the personal self.
"In this way, the Great White Brotherhood began. The Three-fold Flame within the heart of Shamballa, within the Hearts of the Kumaras and Myself, formed the magnetic Heart of the Great White Brotherhood by Whom you have all been blessed and of which Brotherhood you all aspire to become conscious members. . . . " [22

Bless'ed Love To All,

WOW ITS SO AMAZING THAT YOU FOUND ALL THIS INFORMATION ABOUT SOMETHING THAT YOU STATED IS FALSE....ISNT THAT SOMETHING.  I THOUGHT IT WAS ALL JUST INELABORATE INFO BUT YET YOU FOUND IT.  GREAT NOW LEARN SOMETHING....SE'LAH
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« Reply #84 on: July 18, 2010, 09:49:20 PM »

It’s easily refuted, as it was apparently founded by new age gurus in the 20th century.  So now we’ve come to the root of things.  A lot of new age spiritualism.  And if you still don’t understand why it’s only natural for Orthodox Christian to contradict non-Orthodox, in fact non-Christian material on an Orthodox message board, that’s your problem.

Bless'ed Love To All,

But yet it says in your bible that Christ is a Melchizedek.  Not a book that I wrote but a book that you revere. Oh yeah the guru's wrote that too right?  So you really had to get mad to prove my point.  what can you say.  are you a Melchizedek?  Do YOU know any.  Wow and you actually felt that you were having a conversation......................................................................Se'lah
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« Reply #85 on: July 18, 2010, 09:54:19 PM »


BLESS'ED LOVE TO YOU ONLY SIR,

WOW IM DONE.  WHEN YOU ENLIGHTEN YOURSELF IM HERE UNTIL THEN I'LL PREY FOR YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE ISSUES. SHADRECH,MESHECH, AND ABIDNEGO WOULDVE PERISHED IF THEY WERE HALF WAY BELIEVERS LIKE YOURSELF.  YOUR INSECURITY WILL DESTROY YOU IN THE END.......SE'LAH
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« Reply #86 on: July 18, 2010, 10:05:04 PM »

The purpose of this thread was to discuss whether Haile Selassie is still alive.  It's gotten off topic into a heated discussion about Ras Salem's belief system.  I am advising everyone to address that topic in the Melchizedek thread:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,28793.45.html#lastPost

If this continues off topic, I will lock it.

The purpose of keeping discussion of our new member's beliefs in one thread is to make the discussion easier.

Ras Salem,
Please don't be offended when others disagree with you.  It stand to reason that if you post unique and previously unheard of beliefs on an Orthodox Christian website, you are going to get people disagreeing with you and trying to get you to see and understand the Orthodox Christian system. 

Everyone,
Let's lighten up in our tone, avoid sarcasm, and avoid saying things that attack the person with whom we are discussing.  We are here to discuss, refute politely, and explain ourselves.  That's it.  Let's all cool off.

With that, I'm asking that we restrict this discussion to the above linked thread, and that we keep it much more cool.

Thanks. 
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« Reply #87 on: July 18, 2010, 10:17:20 PM »

No, check the very first post you made.  You came off like some sort of an authority privy to a hidden knowledge that others in the world generally didn't have.  However, most of this seems to have had no basis in any authentic ancient tradition.


Bless'ed Love To All,

claimed no authority.  you still are upset.  you're insecure.  this is a forum where we express views.  where does it say that I was any authority.Se'lah

You spoke as if you were an authority, claiming to have access to hidden knowledge that others don’t.  Not to mention the fact that you claimed the title of “High Priest”.  What could be more authoritative than that?

Okay, so a woman chased you down the street.  It makes no difference.  You yourself conflated the E.W.F. with the so-called Melchizedek order and have used the terms interchangeably in your posts, even claiming that one of the founders of the E.W.F. is a High Priest of the Order anointed by Haile Selassie who was also a High Priest, however erroneous that may be.  So far, you have posted no proof that such an organization as the “Melchizedek Order” has existed for 10,000 years, and I notice you have no rebuttal for what I posted above concerning your ahistorical statements concerning Mesopotamia, et cetera.

Bless'ed Love To All,
  why debate public info.  maybe if you read it somewhere else instead of hearing it from me you will not think its me.  And you cant deny this info you havent looked it up otherwise you would be silent, and the information about Salem is also public info look it up which you still havent...Se'lah

Check the other posts.  I did look it up.  It’s new age junk.  And as for the stuff about His Majesty, I know men who knew him personally.  He was the Emperor and no high priest.  That is also a matter of public record.  Provide links to one place that says he was a “high priest”.  I can guarantee it won’t be an Orthodox site.

And again, you have no retort for your ahistorical points concerning Mesopotamia, et al.

In other words, you’ve realized that you have no factual information with which to sustain your argument and so you must resort to pathetic ad hominem attacks and again more babbling “I dont have information that you cant contradict I do have I never said I was gong anywhere..”

Bless'ed Love To All,
  wow I really got you going huh.  LOL you've really taken out  a lot of time on this.  now you sure you not insecure cause If I were you knowing that what I say is true wouldnt you better suit your time preying for me because you know that my judgement is going to be great since Im spreading falsehoods...Se'lah

LOL!  In other words, you’d like me to stop refuting this erroneous mess you’ve posted because you have no real rebuttal.

And how do you know I’m not praying for you?  In point of fact, I have been.  I’ve taken no more time on these boards than you, so shouldn’t assume I haven’t prayed for you for lack of time. Wink

And why do you keep bringing up insecurity as if this is a personal matter?  This has nothing to do with me vs. you on a personal level.  We don’t even know each other.  This is a matter of the teachings of the Order of Melchizedek/Brotherhood of Light vs. those of the Orthodox Church.  Since this is an Orthodox website, you shouldn’t expect us to roll over or just say, “Hmmm that’s interesting!” when heretical/heterodox/new age material is introduced.

Ad hominem advances your position not in the slightest.

Brotherhood of Light
      The Brotherhood of Light was the name given to me when I began to realize my channel connection. The Brothers' original name is the ancient Order of Melchizedek. They have also been called, at different times in our history, the White Brotherhood and the Great White Brotherhood.

     In The Keys of Enoch, by J. J. Hurtak, the Brotherhood was defined as the earth's spiritual guardians, and the hierarchy guided thus: Lord Sananda (known in life as Jeshua Ben Joseph, and later as Jesus the Christ) heads the healing legions of Brothers, and Archangel Michael heads the warrior legions. Together, they are called the Paradise Sons. The warriors cut the ties, and the healers bind the wounds. So does Spirit support us in our healing, and on our individual path to ascending gracefully into the higher realms.

     The Brothers are also the scribes for Spirit, keepers of the Akashic Records. They perform diverse functions in the Divine Plan and include many levels of spiritual awareness. The Ascended Masters form the higher energetic layers of the Brotherhood, and yet they speak as We. Indeed, if All Is One, then they are all interrelated vibrational essences; any need for individual identification is a result of our dualistic views and pre-conditioned thinking. To them, we are all One, including Us!

     In the beginning, they called me little Master and little Brother. When I pointed out that I was female in this life (dualistic chuckle), they gave me the gift of my Spirit name, Sara, formed from the first two and last two letters of my Higher Self's name, Sanat Kumara. I work alone with the Brothers, and see myself as their scribe, their voice and their secretary. I hold no affiliation with any human group or organization currently teaching or representing the Melchizedek name or the White Brotherhood Priesthood.

     If you would like to read further about the Brotherhood of Light, I offer here a small list of books that I found to contain a balanced and unbiased history and theory of their teachings. Many blessings to all seekers, we are all One on the path back Home.
-- I Am, in All Love, Edna G. Frankel (Sara)
 
The Book of Knowledge: The Keys of Enoch by J.J. Hurtak, 1973, published by The Academy for Future science, PO Box FE, Los Gatos, CA 95031, ISBN# 09603450-4-3

Ancient Mystical White Brotherhood by Frater Achad (Rev. George Graham Price), 1971, Revised Fourth Edition 1991, by Great Seal Press Publisher, PO Box 10771, Phoenix, AZ 85064,
ISBN# 0-926872-02-8

Melchizedek Truth Principles by Frater Achad, 1988, 10th printing 1999, Great Seal Press Publisher, ISBN# 0-92672-01-X
If that’s the case, its no surprise your information contradicts the Orthodox Church, but that stuff is hardly ancient.  From wikipedia:
“In 1952, Geraldine Innocente, Messenger for The Bridge to Freedom, delivered this Address purported to be from Sanat Kumara describing the founding of the "Great White Brotherhood":
" . . . I had nothing to work with but Light and Love, and many centuries passed before even two lifestreams applied for membership - One, later became Buddha (now, Lord of the World, the Planetary Logos Gautama Buddha) and the Other, became the Cosmic Christ (Lord Maitreya, now the Planetary Buddha). The Brotherhood has grown through these ages and centuries until almost all the offices are held now by those belonging to the evolution of Earth and those who have volunteered to remain among her evolution. . .. " [21]
On July 4, 1954 it is believed that Sanat Kumara stated through Geraldine Innocente:
 . . . Thus We took Our abode upon the sweet Earth. Through the same power of centripetal and centrifugal force of which I spoke (cohesion and expansion of the magnetic power of Divine Love), We then began to magnetize the Flame in the hearts of some of the Guardian Spirits who were not sleeping so soundly and who were not too enthusiastically engaged in using primal life for the satisfaction of the personal self.
"In this way, the Great White Brotherhood began. The Three-fold Flame within the heart of Shamballa, within the Hearts of the Kumaras and Myself, formed the magnetic Heart of the Great White Brotherhood by Whom you have all been blessed and of which Brotherhood you all aspire to become conscious members. . . . " [22

Bless'ed Love To All,

WOW ITS SO AMAZING THAT YOU FOUND ALL THIS INFORMATION ABOUT SOMETHING THAT YOU STATED IS FALSE....ISNT THAT SOMETHING.  I THOUGHT IT WAS ALL JUST INELABORATE INFO BUT YET YOU FOUND IT.  GREAT NOW LEARN SOMETHING....SE'LAH

LOL!  Your ALL CAPS JUBILANCE demonstrates that you don’t comprehend what’s just happened.  I haven’t confirmed anything you’ve said by posting this here.  I’ve just demonstrated to everyone that the source of your claptrap isn’t some ancient order, but a bunch of 20th century occultist hooey.  There’s nothing to learn here.

It’s easily refuted, as it was apparently founded by new age gurus in the 20th century.  So now we’ve come to the root of things.  A lot of new age spiritualism.  And if you still don’t understand why it’s only natural for Orthodox Christian to contradict non-Orthodox, in fact non-Christian material on an Orthodox message board, that’s your problem.

Bless'ed Love To All,

But yet it says in your bible that Christ is a Melchizedek.  Not a book that I wrote but a book that you revere. Oh yeah the guru's wrote that too right?  So you really had to get mad to prove my point.  what can you say.  are you a Melchizedek?  Do YOU know any.  Wow and you actually felt that you were having a conversation......................................................................Se'lah

I’m not “a Melchizedek” and neither are you, really.

The Bible doesn’t say that Christ “is a Melchizedek” but that “you are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek, meaning that the perfect priesthood of Christ is prefigured in by Melchizedek.  It is the priesthood in which the offering is bread and wine. It is the priesthood which is not by bloodlines, but by ordination.  It predates and supplants the priesthood of the Levites.  I explained this to you earlier when I said that Melchizedek, according to the Orthodox point of view, is a typos of Christ.

Whatever you may state now in your desperate sarcasm, anyone who reads our first few cordial posts to one another can see that at that point, we were having a conversation with one another.

And who says I’m mad?  I’m what’s known as a “tireless rebeutter” pal.  I enjoy this stuff! Wink


BLESS'ED LOVE TO YOU ONLY SIR,

WOW IM DONE.  WHEN YOU ENLIGHTEN YOURSELF IM HERE UNTIL THEN I'LL PREY FOR YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE ISSUES. SHADRECH,MESHECH, AND ABIDNEGO WOULDVE PERISHED IF THEY WERE HALF WAY BELIEVERS LIKE YOURSELF.  YOUR INSECURITY WILL DESTROY YOU IN THE END.......SE'LAH

ALL CAPS again, huh?  And a strongly worded admonition at that?  LOL!  Now who’s “mad”?  Are you sure you’re praying for me, ‘cause it kinda seems like you’re forecasting my destruction.  Thankfully, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were sustained and protected by the same God who now sustains the Orthodox Church.  We’re see if you’re done or not.  I’ll bet they’ll be a reply waiting for me on here tomorrow.  See ya then.  Peace!

Edit: Salpy, I guess you were typing when I was typing, because I didn't see your post until after I'd made mine.  Provided Ras Salem rebutts in the other thread, I'll restrict myself to there.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 10:20:57 PM by Antonious Nikolas » Logged

My sins run out behind me and I do not see them, but today I am coming to judge the errors of another.
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« Reply #88 on: July 18, 2010, 10:20:14 PM »

I'm going to assume that this reply was being composed while I was posting my warning.   Smiley
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« Reply #89 on: July 18, 2010, 10:22:24 PM »

I'm going to assume that this reply was being composed while I was posting my warning.   Smiley

Yes, it was!  See edit. Smiley
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« Reply #90 on: July 20, 2010, 01:46:31 PM »



Bless'ed Love To All

Yes Salpy now you see why I wrote you personally and why I said to you what I said.  Which is why you made the statements that you made  about this particular thread.  Now as you can see this man is insecure in what he claims he knows otherwise he wouldve stuck to the subject like most people of intelligence would instead of trying to call me on somethng he went and googled and found AFTER he got upset with my commnts which shows that he still has a lot to learn, but anyway SALPY Im glad to see that at least you have the sense to know that just because my views are different doesnt mean that YOU are inferior as this man obviously feels.  Now Salpy why didnt you get offended even though you and I clearly see that this man did.  Now I wonder why that is.  He even stop giving his salutation after a whle so you know like I do.....Se'lah
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Bless'ed Love
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« Reply #91 on: July 20, 2010, 02:03:40 PM »

Ras Salem,

I directed my warning to everyone, not just one person.  Also, I have to point out that your accusations that another poster who disagrees with you is insecure and feels inferior are precisely the sort of personal attacks we are supposed to avoid.

Since it seems the subject of whether Haile Selassie is still alive has been exhausted, I'm going to lock this thread.  Discussions of your unique beliefs can be addressed in the other thread.  It's just easier on me and others to keep it all in one thread.
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