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Author Topic: Prayers for the President/Leader, only in America?  (Read 1305 times) Average Rating: 0
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88Devin12
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« on: July 14, 2010, 08:35:33 PM »

http://orthodoxhistory.org/2010/07/prayers-for-the-president/

Was reading that article by Matthew Namee about praying for the President of the US. I thought this was common all over the Orthodox world? (of course, for their leaders)
I was told that even in Russia they had to pray even for Stalin during the Soviet Era. I've heard clips from Liturgies in Great Britain where they commemorate the Queen and the governing authorities there.

I had also heard somewhere that the origins of this inclusion into the Liturgy either dates from Imperial Russia, or from the Roman Empire...

I thought this was common practice everywhere and not just the U.S.?
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« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2010, 08:48:24 PM »

I think the article was referring to the fact that the Orthodox of an earlier time in the US continued to pray for their rulers in the home country, and that the switch to praying for the President of the US might have been seen as an innovation.

And yes, here in Canada we do pray for the Queen and other civil authorities as we are commanded to so in Scripture.
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« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2010, 09:41:08 PM »

I think the article was referring to the fact that the Orthodox of an earlier time in the US continued to pray for their rulers in the home country, and that the switch to praying for the President of the US might have been seen as an innovation.

And yes, here in Canada we do pray for the Queen and other civil authorities as we are commanded to so in Scripture.
Yes, that was the issue: at the time Alaska had just been switched from Russia to the US, the chapel in NYC was attached to the Russian Consulate and Embassy and under the bishop of St. Petersburg, Russia's capital, and the bishop in the Cathedral in SF was under the Holy Governing Synod, which was run by the Czar's Oberprocurator and under Imperial protection.  The change in status was solved by adopting the language divised by the Protestant Episcopal Church in America in 1789 under similar circumstances (the Americans had to go the nonjuror bishops of Scotland for ordination, and Parliament had to pass a special law to further provide bishops for America, which had to edit the Book of Common Prayer to indicate the change (i.e. from the King/governor of the anglican church to independent church), resulting in their edition of 1789, thereafter picked up by the Russian bishop John.
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« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2010, 12:17:08 PM »

Was reading that article by Matthew Namee about praying for the President of the US. I thought this was common all over the Orthodox world? (of course, for their leaders)
I was told that even in Russia they had to pray even for Stalin during the Soviet Era. I've heard clips from Liturgies in Great Britain where they commemorate the Queen and the governing authorities there.

I had also heard somewhere that the origins of this inclusion into the Liturgy either dates from Imperial Russia, or from the Roman Empire...

I thought this was common practice everywhere and not just the U.S.?

What you have heard is true: I have the English (UK) Liturgy book which does commemorate the queen and parliament; books in Greek for Greece do likewise for president & government.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2010, 12:17:29 PM by Fr. George » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2010, 10:50:17 AM »

in my opinion, our president needs as many prayers as he can get!!!!!!!!!!! Grin
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« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2010, 04:20:57 PM »

I think the article was referring to the fact that the Orthodox of an earlier time in the US continued to pray for their rulers in the home country, and that the switch to praying for the President of the US might have been seen as an innovation.

And yes, here in Canada we do pray for the Queen and other civil authorities as we are commanded to so in Scripture.

help me catch up on my scripture, where does it say to pray for civil authorities/president?
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« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2010, 08:37:54 PM »

I think the article was referring to the fact that the Orthodox of an earlier time in the US continued to pray for their rulers in the home country, and that the switch to praying for the President of the US might have been seen as an innovation.

And yes, here in Canada we do pray for the Queen and other civil authorities as we are commanded to so in Scripture.

help me catch up on my scripture, where does it say to pray for civil authorities/president?
1 Timothy 2:1-4:  Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. (NKJV)
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« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2010, 07:00:44 AM »

While it is good to pray for those who rule, I've always found it strange when liturgies in various countries continue to commemorate kings and queens who are now mere figureheads meant to bring in tourism money, or when they commemorate the president when he's a cultural figure and it is the prime minister and other parliamentarians are the actual authorities.
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« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2010, 07:34:06 AM »

(Emphasis mine:)

1 Timothy 2:1-4:  Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. (NKJV)

The bolded part is quoted near-verbatim near the end of the Anaphora (in between "Especially for our most-holy" and "Among the first, Lord, remember our Archbishop").
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« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2010, 10:36:00 PM »

Excerpt from Chapter 1 of Archbishop Gregory Afonsky’s A History of the Orthodox Church in America: 1917-1939:


The faithful of the Orthodox Church in America never considered any form of political dependence on Russia.  Just as in his own day the Russian Prince Vasili Dmitrievich (XIV century)  stopped commemorating the Byzantine emperor in Russian churches on the grounds that, although the Russians received the Church from Byzantium, “they did not receive the emperor and will not have him,” so too Bishop Nicholas Zyorov, in 1896, reported to the Holy Synod that, “the commemoration of the Emperor and the Reigning House during divine services brings forth dismay and apprehension among Orthodox in America of non-Russian background.  This practice is also a hindrance to the propagation of Orthodoxy among Russian Uniates who came to America from Austria-Hungary.” In an Ukase dated January 27, 1906, and addressed to Archbishop Tikhon, the Holy Synod confirmed the practice of commemorating the American President by name during divine services.
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« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2010, 02:01:25 PM »

I just came back from Ukraine where I attended a DL at the canonical UOC. They did not mention the president, or the armed forces, or those who are performing duties of officials, etc. That part was completely skipped.
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« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2010, 08:11:06 PM »

I just came back from Ukraine where I attended a DL at the canonical UOC. They did not mention the president, or the armed forces, or those who are performing duties of officials, etc. That part was completely skipped.

Wow.  Thanks George.  I must say I am stumped.  They just skipped over the entire petition, or they abbreviated petition so that it was just generally "the government"? 
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« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2010, 08:12:27 PM »

Excerpt from Chapter 1 of Archbishop Gregory Afonsky’s A History of the Orthodox Church in America: 1917-1939:


The faithful of the Orthodox Church in America never considered any form of political dependence on Russia.  Just as in his own day the Russian Prince Vasili Dmitrievich (XIV century)  stopped commemorating the Byzantine emperor in Russian churches on the grounds that, although the Russians received the Church from Byzantium, “they did not receive the emperor and will not have him,” so too Bishop Nicholas Zyorov, in 1896, reported to the Holy Synod that, “the commemoration of the Emperor and the Reigning House during divine services brings forth dismay and apprehension among Orthodox in America of non-Russian background.  This practice is also a hindrance to the propagation of Orthodoxy among Russian Uniates who came to America from Austria-Hungary.” In an Ukase dated January 27, 1906, and addressed to Archbishop Tikhon, the Holy Synod confirmed the practice of commemorating the American President by name during divine services.


Wow again.  My thanks on this as well.   Good info for all.  
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« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2010, 08:15:42 PM »

(Emphasis mine:)

1 Timothy 2:1-4:  Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. (NKJV)

The bolded part is quoted near-verbatim near the end of the Anaphora (in between "Especially for our most-holy" and "Among the first, Lord, remember our Archbishop").

Yep, that's were we get it from.   We priests sometimes take for granted that laity know these things.  Good post Father. 
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« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2010, 08:21:17 PM »

Was reading that article by Matthew Namee about praying for the President of the US. I thought this was common all over the Orthodox world? (of course, for their leaders)
I was told that even in Russia they had to pray even for Stalin during the Soviet Era. I've heard clips from Liturgies in Great Britain where they commemorate the Queen and the governing authorities there.
I had also heard somewhere that the origins of this inclusion into the Liturgy either dates from Imperial Russia, or from the Roman Empire...
I thought this was common practice everywhere and not just the U.S.?
What you have heard is true: I have the English (UK) Liturgy book which does commemorate the queen and parliament; books in Greek for Greece do likewise for president & government.

Right, we also have these in the older Greek books for Monarch, as well as in the turn of the century Russian books and those that preceded.     
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« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2010, 06:19:45 AM »

All the churches I've attended in the UK commemorate the Queen. Archbishop Gregorios has made this a requirement accross the Greek Archdiocese. In the Russian EP church I attended in Norway, H.M. King Harald was commemorated.
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