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Author Topic: Can a Catholic explain how they observe Matthew 23:9?  (Read 3968 times) Average Rating: 0
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hema1999
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« on: July 14, 2010, 07:03:53 AM »

I am the one asking, I just want a straight explanation. Shouldn't be difficult.


Hi I understand what you are saying, but, what I want to know is strictly how do Catholics observe it? I have not asked any other question than that.
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« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2010, 10:21:39 AM »

Here is a very simple and straight forward response:

http://www.catholic.com/library/Call_No_Man_Father.asp
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« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2010, 10:22:30 AM »

BTW,
Do you not call your dad "father"?
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« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2010, 06:16:47 PM »

Wouldn't this question apply to Orthodox as well? I'm kind of curious as to why you singled out Catholics on an Orthodox forum. That being said, Papist's response is, as far as I can tell, correct.
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« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2010, 06:24:27 PM »

Wouldn't this question apply to Orthodox as well? I'm kind of curious as to why you singled out Catholics on an Orthodox forum. That being said, Papist's response is, as far as I can tell, correct.
No.  The Vatican has appropriated the title "Father"-the literal meaning of "Pope"-and restricted to one and one bishop only.

The title is common among Slavic, Greek and Romanian Churches for any priest.  It was restricted in Egypt to the Patriarch of Alexandria as a title of respect, centuries before Rome took it.

As an indication of why the Orthodox have no problem with the verse in question, but the Vatican falls under condemnation, is that we still refer to the pope of Rome as the pope of Rome, but the patriarchs (all three of them) who claimed the see of Alexandria while submitted to the Vatican are not allowed to have the title of the Eastern counterpart (the Vatican's usual way of doing things with its "Eastern churches"): its church is not big enough for more than one pope.
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« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2010, 12:20:43 AM »

Wouldn't this question apply to Orthodox as well? I'm kind of curious as to why you singled out Catholics on an Orthodox forum. That being said, Papist's response is, as far as I can tell, correct.
No.  The Vatican has appropriated the title "Father"-the literal meaning of "Pope"-and restricted to one and one bishop only.

The title is common among Slavic, Greek and Romanian Churches for any priest.  It was restricted in Egypt to the Patriarch of Alexandria as a title of respect, centuries before Rome took it.

As an indication of why the Orthodox have no problem with the verse in question, but the Vatican falls under condemnation, is that we still refer to the pope of Rome as the pope of Rome, but the patriarchs (all three of them) who claimed the see of Alexandria while submitted to the Vatican are not allowed to have the title of the Eastern counterpart (the Vatican's usual way of doing things with its "Eastern churches"): its church is not big enough for more than one pope.
Ah. The OP didn't really specify this, so I assumed he meant "Father" as a title of respect for priests.
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« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2010, 01:08:00 AM »

So the Greeks, Romanians and slavs call their priests "pope" ? Give me a break.

My mom used to call our parish priest "Padre" which means father in Spanish. It would be very confusing calling all priests "Papa" (pope)

 Mathew 23:9 says call no man father, it does not specify the usage of pope, although that word does mean "father". So what? Still,the accusation must be clarified if you call your priest "father".

 Unless you want to confuse the issue with semantics


 
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« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2010, 06:32:55 AM »

So the Greeks, Romanians and slavs call their priests "pope" ? Give me a break.

My mom used to call our parish priest "Padre" which means father in Spanish. It would be very confusing calling all priests "Papa" (pope)

 Mathew 23:9 says call no man father, it does not specify the usage of pope, although that word does mean "father". So what? Still,the accusation must be clarified if you call your priest "father".

 Unless you want to confuse the issue with semantics


 

The problem is that the Vatican makes the term "papa" definite, i.e. THE Pope, capital "P." That's what breaks Mat. 23:9, as shown by the Vatican forbidding the original use and time honored tradition of Alexandria by its primate in submission there (or rather, the two, formerly three, primates it claims to preside over that see).  The Vatican's church isn't big enough for two popes.

Rather than confusing, the Greek, Romanian and Slav usage, unlike the Vatican's, doesn't violate Mat. 23:9. In Arabic we use a different term for father for a priest (as does the alternative usage of Romanian)
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« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2010, 11:10:57 AM »

Yes, always remember, even if the RC *seem* to be doing the same thing as the EO in any given instance, it must nevertheless be different because the RC are *always* wrong.  Grin
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« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2010, 01:38:55 PM »

Yes, always remember, even if the RC *seem* to be doing the same thing as the EO in any given instance, it must nevertheless be different because the RC are *always* wrong.  Grin
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« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2010, 02:11:16 PM »

Yes, always remember, even if the RC *seem* to be doing the same thing as the EO in any given instance, it must nevertheless be different because the RC are *always* wrong.  Grin
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« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2010, 04:21:28 PM »

I don't see the issue.

"Pater" became in romance languages various words: pai (Portuguese), padre(Spanish, Italian), père (French).

Most of these languages have endearing forms that are variations of "papá"(Spanish, Italian and French), "papai" (Portuguese).

In most of them "padre" is the word for a RC or OC priest. In French it's "prêtre", clearly a variation of the same.

Also, in most of them "Pope" is translated as some form of "Papa" (the endearing form), again, in French we have "Pape", a slight variation.

So, with the exception of bishops all are called "father" in daily life. The Greeks here do call the father "papá", although the accent, in Portuguese, differs from the word for "Pope" which would be "pápa".
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« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2010, 04:53:54 PM »

Yes, always remember, even if the RC *seem* to be doing the same thing as the EO in any given instance, it must nevertheless be different because the RC are *always* wrong.  Grin
At least Catholicism according to ialmisry. I swear sometimes I think he got his education about the Catholic Church from Jack Chick.
I got the only perfect score on the final exams of our class on "Our Catholic Faith." I was also the only one not in communion with the Vatican (though they gave it to me. I didn't drink the kool-aid though).

Papist's "Here is a very simple and straight forward response"
http://www.catholic.com/library/Call_No_Man_Father.asp
sidesteps the issue of the papacy. Calling priests "father" isn't an issue.
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« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2010, 04:54:28 PM »

I don't see the issue.

"Pater" became in romance languages various words: pai (Portuguese), padre(Spanish, Italian), père (French).

Most of these languages have endearing forms that are variations of "papá"(Spanish, Italian and French), "papai" (Portuguese).

In most of them "padre" is the word for a RC or OC priest. In French it's "prêtre", clearly a variation of the same.

Also, in most of them "Pope" is translated as some form of "Papa" (the endearing form), again, in French we have "Pape", a slight variation.

So, with the exception of bishops all are called "father" in daily life. The Greeks here do call the father "papá", although the accent, in Portuguese, differs from the word for "Pope" which would be "pápa".
I am glad you clarified this. I really get tired of some folks splitting hairs compounding the issue through semantics. You have explained it rather well.

Just as you mentioned,  in Spanish we call the Pope, " Pápa". Our priests are called "Padre", or a more endearing form of father, "Padrecito". All meaning "father".
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« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2010, 04:54:47 PM »

Sorry for the misunderstanding, Daddy-o.  Cheesy
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« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2010, 05:00:14 PM »

Sorry for the misunderstanding, Daddy-o.  Cheesy
laugh just don't call him "Papa"..that would be unbiblical according to his interpretation.
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« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2010, 06:36:42 PM »

Sorry for the misunderstanding, Daddy-o.  Cheesy
laugh just don't call him "Papa"..that would be unbiblical according to his interpretation.
"Male parental unit" is out of the question too.
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« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2010, 07:40:17 PM »

Two wrongs don't make a Rite.

Just had to say LOLOLOL!!!   Grin   Grin   Grin
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