OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 25, 2014, 01:46:28 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 »  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Venerating Orthodox Relics in a Roman Catholic Church  (Read 4748 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Alveus Lacuna
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,919



« on: July 14, 2010, 01:08:14 AM »

There is a massive collection of "first-class" (to use Latin lingo) relics in a chapel near where I live, and I was just wondering if there is any issue with entering these temples to venerate the relics. We're talking giants like St. John Chrysostom, St. John of Damascus, St. Ignatius of Antioch, et cetera.

On a related note, do any of you Roman Catholics ever visit Orthodox temples to venerate common pre-schism saints? (This is of course excluding the Holy Sepulchre, which I guess is somewhat "shared territory" by the Greeks).
Logged
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,963



« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2010, 01:23:04 AM »

There is a massive collection of "first-class" (to use Latin lingo) relics in a chapel near where I live, and I was just wondering if there is any issue with entering these temples to venerate the relics. We're talking giants like St. John Chrysostom, St. John of Damascus, St. Ignatius of Antioch, et cetera.

On a related note, do any of you Roman Catholics ever visit Orthodox temples to venerate common pre-schism saints? (This is of course excluding the Holy Sepulchre, which I guess is somewhat "shared territory" by the Greeks).

St. John of Damascus? Where?

No, not a problem.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Alveus Lacuna
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,919



« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2010, 01:37:09 AM »

http://www.smac.edu/?RelicList

In St. Marys, Kansas.

A deacon in my church and I are going to make the drive before summer's over.

The list is totally insane. Because it is an SSPX school, I'm going to assume that perhaps what happened here is that these were all rescued from Roman Catholic temples in the wake of Vatican II when so many holy things were desecrated to keep up with the times.

I'm also curious if they will let Orthodox Christians into the relics chapel as we are considered to be heretics outright be these staunch Latin traditionalists. I'm going to call the school soon and check on their hours and such.

If you have any interest in going through and picking out all of the Orthodox saints and posting them here, that'd be swell.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2010, 01:39:47 AM by Alveus Lacuna » Logged
Alveus Lacuna
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,919



« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2010, 01:47:29 AM »

I found the listing through this website:

http://www.fisheaters.com/relics.html

They also mention a church in Chicago (were you are, right?):

http://www.cantius.org/

Chicago, Illinois

Relics: Over 2000 relics, including some of all 12 Apostles and 24 of the 33 Doctors of the Church
Where: St. John Cantius Parish, 825 North Carpenter Street Chicago, Illinois 60622-5405, Phone: 312-243-7373


I'm assuming that a piece of John the Damascene is among them, and it would be pretty close to you.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2010, 01:48:07 AM by Alveus Lacuna » Logged
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,963



« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2010, 02:23:20 AM »

I found the listing through this website:

http://www.fisheaters.com/relics.html

They also mention a church in Chicago (were you are, right?):

http://www.cantius.org/

Chicago, Illinois

Relics: Over 2000 relics, including some of all 12 Apostles and 24 of the 33 Doctors of the Church
Where: St. John Cantius Parish, 825 North Carpenter Street Chicago, Illinois 60622-5405, Phone: 312-243-7373


I'm assuming that a piece of John the Damascene is among them, and it would be pretty close to you.

Very distinctive church, within the original city limits. There was a rumor (unfortunately false it seems  Sad) that it was going WRO.

On the Kansus church, yeah, I know a lot of traditionalists who rescued a lot of stuff.  My sons and I have been planning on going to Kansas for a trip (just to say we had been there). Now we have more of a reason.  Btw, Kansas has an usually large number of Orthodox Churches, far more than I would expect in mid America.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
stashko
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: ИСТОЧНИ ПРАВОСЛАВНИ СРБИН
Jurisdiction: Non Ecumenist Free Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 4,998


Wonderworking Sitka Icon


« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2010, 02:24:32 AM »

I know iv said this before ,How does one tell if there the real Mc Coy, and not Pork Rib Bones, or Chicken Bones one is venerating ,certificates of athentications can be forged....... Grin
Logged

ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
Alveus Lacuna
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,919



« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2010, 02:27:12 AM »

Very distinctive church, within the original city limits. There was a rumor (unfortunately false it seems  Sad) that it was going WRO.

On the Kansus church, yeah, I know a lot of traditionalists who rescued a lot of stuff.  My sons and I have been planning on going to Kansas for a trip (just to say we had been there). Now we have more of a reason.  Btw, Kansas has an usually large number of Orthodox Churches, far more than I would expect in mid America.

If you come through Kansas City let me know, as you absolutely have to visit my parish.
Logged
Alveus Lacuna
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,919



« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2010, 02:28:16 AM »

I know iv said this before ,How does one tell if there the real Mc Coy, and not Pork Rib Bones, or Chicken Bones one is venerating ,certificates of athentications can be forged....... Grin

Well, if they are chicken bones then they will help me at being a fool-for-Christ.
Logged
scamandrius
Crusher of Secrets; House Lannister
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Online Online

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: I'm Greek and proud of it, damn it!
Posts: 6,147



« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2010, 06:19:01 PM »

Alveus,

I know the place you're talking about.  these nuns at this convent basically took in all of these relics which were going to be destroyed (i kid you not) following Vatican II when the council decreed you didn't need relics anymore in the altars or in the churches.  Thank God these nuns gave them a home.  My priest has visited this area and I keep meaning to as I''m not too far from it.  I don't think, however, that you can go at any time.  I think you have to call for a specific time where they'll open up the vaults for you.  Bring a letter from your priest, just in case.
Logged

I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene
Father Peter
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: British Orthodox Church within the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate
Posts: 2,656



WWW
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2010, 06:27:14 PM »

I was happy to venerate a relic of St John the Baptist in Amien Cathedral a few years ago. It was on display for public veneration.

I also took time in Ely some years ago to find the relic of St Etheldreda which is kept in the local Roman Catholic Church.

And I once took part in an Orthodox liturgy held in a local Anglican Church where the relics of St Eanswythe are preserved.

And I have been on holiday to the little Cornish village of Probus where I prayed before the relics of St Grace and St Probus, the ancient patrons and founders of a hermitage there.

Oh, and on the same holiday I walked miles through the dunes to find the buried church of St Piran, whose feast is on my birthday, and who is the ancient patron and monastic founder of Perranporth.

Certainly in Britain we still have an ancient heritage that we can connect with. My own baptismal patron, St Theodore of Tarsus, is buried just 18 miles from where I live, having travelled all the way from Syria to Rome, and then sent from Rome to become the Archbishop of Canterbury in the 7th century.

Father Peter
Logged

Lord have mercy upon me a sinner
http://www.orthodoxmedway.org

My blog - http://anorthodoxpriest.blogspot.co.uk

The poster formerly known as peterfarrington
tuesdayschild
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 967



« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2010, 06:53:58 PM »

all of these relics which were going to be destroyed (i kid you not) following Vatican II when the council decreed you didn't need relics anymore in the altars or in the churches.



Would you mind providing support for this?
Logged
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,487


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2010, 06:56:30 PM »

Alveus,

It's perfectly fine to do what you are intending to do, and I myself would do it.

Stashko,

For the sake of argument, let's say the relic is fake.  I don't think the saint would mind, because you approached in faith.

In Christ,

Fr Anastasios
Logged

Please Buy My Book!

Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching. Also, I served as an Orthodox priest from 2008-2013, before resigning.
Alveus Lacuna
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,919



« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2010, 10:19:40 PM »

Certainly in Britain we still have an ancient heritage that we can connect with. My own baptismal patron, St Theodore of Tarsus, is buried just 18 miles from where I live, having travelled all the way from Syria to Rome, and then sent from Rome to become the Archbishop of Canterbury in the 7th century.

So your baptismal patron is post-schism with your own communion?  Huh
Logged
stashko
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: ИСТОЧНИ ПРАВОСЛАВНИ СРБИН
Jurisdiction: Non Ecumenist Free Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 4,998


Wonderworking Sitka Icon


« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2010, 11:07:02 PM »

Alveus,

I know the place you're talking about.  these nuns at this convent basically took in all of these relics which were going to be destroyed (i kid you not) following Vatican II when the council decreed you didn't need relics anymore in the altars or in the churches.  Thank God these nuns gave them a home.  My priest has visited this area and I keep meaning to as I''m not too far from it.  I don't think, however, that you can go at any time.  I think you have to call for a specific time where they'll open up the vaults for you.  Bring a letter from your priest, just in case.

I agree whole heartily with what you posted here....A Lutheran friend of mine did a brisk business in relics that ended up in his shop when Vatican 11 blew in....Altar stones, individual relics and other things statues , censors so many other religious goods..... Grin
What Was Holy and Sacred to the catholic church then ,wasn't when Vatican 2 came in ...That's when the catholic went for the protestant look..... Grin
« Last Edit: July 14, 2010, 11:12:09 PM by stashko » Logged

ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
Deacon Lance
Archon
********
Online Online

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archeparchy of Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,953


Liturgy at Mt. St. Macrina Pilgrimage


« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2010, 12:14:18 AM »

Alveus,

I know the place you're talking about.  these nuns at this convent basically took in all of these relics which were going to be destroyed (i kid you not) following Vatican II when the council decreed you didn't need relics anymore in the altars or in the churches.  Thank God these nuns gave them a home.  My priest has visited this area and I keep meaning to as I''m not too far from it.  I don't think, however, that you can go at any time.  I think you have to call for a specific time where they'll open up the vaults for you.  Bring a letter from your priest, just in case.

This is another fallacy about VII.  It said no such thing.  The General Instruction of the Roman Missal states:

302. The practice of placing relics of Saints, even those not Martyrs, under the altar to be dedicated is fittingly retained. Care should be taken, however, to ensure the authenticity of such relics.

Why some disobeyed this is another question.
Logged

My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Deacon Lance
Archon
********
Online Online

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archeparchy of Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,953


Liturgy at Mt. St. Macrina Pilgrimage


« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2010, 12:25:06 AM »

If your ever in Pittsburgh, St. Anthony's Chapel has the largest collection of relics for public view in the world, over 5000.

www.saintanthonyschapel.org
Logged

My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Father Peter
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: British Orthodox Church within the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate
Posts: 2,656



WWW
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2010, 04:36:39 AM »

Alveus, there are a lot of Theodore's. I venerate many.

But the one who means most to me is buried 14 miles away and established the English Church. Even more, he was from Syria.

The status of the saints in relation to God does not change. There is no evidence that St Theodore of Tarsus held any heresy. He is perhaps one of the most important figures from the period of the Old English Orthodox Catholic Church. I don't sense that the OO are as exclusive as some/many/most EO can be? If in 10 years time there was a reconciliation with the EO would it then be OK to consider him a saint, but if the paperwork was held up for 20 years would it not be possible to consider him a saint? Or if there was a reconciliation and then it broke down for 50 years would he be a saint or not?

Logged

Lord have mercy upon me a sinner
http://www.orthodoxmedway.org

My blog - http://anorthodoxpriest.blogspot.co.uk

The poster formerly known as peterfarrington
tuesdayschild
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 967



« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2010, 09:05:30 AM »

Even more, he was from Syria.

Why "even more"?
Logged
Father Peter
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: British Orthodox Church within the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate
Posts: 2,656



WWW
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2010, 09:28:28 AM »

Because he unites in his ministry the East and West. He wasn't just from Rome. He was from Syria. There are lots of Western bishops in the West, but not so many Eastern ones. Therefore he is especially interesting to me.

Father Peter
Logged

Lord have mercy upon me a sinner
http://www.orthodoxmedway.org

My blog - http://anorthodoxpriest.blogspot.co.uk

The poster formerly known as peterfarrington
griego catolico
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Posts: 241

...for the union of all, let us pray to the Lord.


« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2010, 12:03:53 AM »

On a related note, do any of you Roman Catholics ever visit Orthodox temples to venerate common pre-schism saints? (This is of course excluding the Holy Sepulchre, which I guess is somewhat "shared territory" by the Greeks).

Why just pre-schism saints? I'm Catholic and I have venerated post-schism saints. In fact, I was at the ROCOR cathedral in San Francisco this week where I venerated the relics of Saint John Maximovitch, Saint Elizabeth Feodorovna and her attendant Saint Barbara, and Saint Herman of Alaska.
 
« Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 12:04:28 AM by griego catolico » Logged
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,266


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2010, 10:39:33 AM »

On a related note, do any of you Roman Catholics ever visit Orthodox temples to venerate common pre-schism saints? (This is of course excluding the Holy Sepulchre, which I guess is somewhat "shared territory" by the Greeks).

Why just pre-schism saints? I'm Catholic and I have venerated post-schism saints. In fact, I was at the ROCOR cathedral in San Francisco this week where I venerated the relics of Saint John Maximovitch, Saint Elizabeth Feodorovna and her attendant Saint Barbara, and Saint Herman of Alaska.
 
Because some EOs view Catholics as graceless heretics. Most say that they just don't know about Catholic saints. I have met very few who would be comfortable venerating Catholic saints.
Logged

Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2010, 06:10:03 PM »

Thanks for clearing that up, Deacon Lance.

It's astonishing all of the things done in the name of Vatican II which actually were gross violations of what the Council actually said.
Logged
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2010, 06:16:29 PM »

Speaking of which, please offer prayers for the return of the relic of the True Cross that was recently stolen from the Cathedral of the Holy Cross here in Boston.

That relic had been in Boston since the 18th century!
Logged
stashko
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: ИСТОЧНИ ПРАВОСЛАВНИ СРБИН
Jurisdiction: Non Ecumenist Free Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 4,998


Wonderworking Sitka Icon


« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2010, 06:24:05 PM »

Speaking of which, please offer prayers for the return of the relic of the True Cross that was recently stolen from the Cathedral of the Holy Cross here in Boston.

That relic had been in Boston since the 18th century!

And what Holy Orthodox Church did they steal it from, during the crusader times  Hummm..... Grin
Logged

ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,973


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2010, 12:49:15 AM »

Speaking of which, please offer prayers for the return of the relic of the True Cross that was recently stolen from the Cathedral of the Holy Cross here in Boston.

That relic had been in Boston since the 18th century!

And what Holy Orthodox Church did they steal it from, during the crusader times  Hummm..... Grin

Oh snap!

There were, however, pieces of the True Cross in the Orthodox west. St. Helena made sure of that. Many other relics moved from east to west and west to east in the first millennium without theft. Of course, on the other hand, there are cases of the emperors translating relics to Constantinople for their own stash. Was this always done with the good will and consent of the people who had the relics previously? Errrrr, who wants to tell the emperor no?
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
The young fogey
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,758


I'm an alpaca, actually


WWW
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2010, 12:59:23 AM »

Of course I'd say go ahead.

Lots of born Orthodox would and not give it a second thought.

It's not like going to Confession or Communion there.

The SSPXers might be rude but don't expect that. Why make a case out of being Orthodox/come at them with a chip on your shoulder? The born Orthodox probably wouldn't.
Logged

lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2010, 02:46:59 PM »

Relics are still very much a part of Catholic life. An example I just came across:

Sainthood cause of ‘snowshoe priest’ heads to Vatican

Marquette, Mich., Jul 28, 2010 / 03:27 am (CNA).- Following a four-month investigation, the Diocese of Marquette has closed its inquiry into an alleged miracle attributed to its first bishop, Servant of God Frederic Baraga, who is known as the “snowshoe priest.” The inquiry now proceeds to the Vatican for further consideration.

The alleged miracle concerns a reputed tumor found on a patient’s liver in various diagnostic tests. The patient, the patient’s family and their parish priest prayed for healing through the intercession of Bishop Baraga. Bishop Baraga’s stole was also placed on the patient’s abdomen, after which the patient’s pain ceased.

An exploratory surgery by doctors found no tumor, according to the diocese.

Bishop Baraga was born in Slovenia in 1797. He came to the United States in 1830 as a missionary to the Odawa and Ojibwa tribes of the upper Great Lakes region, traveling through the vast territory by canoe, boat, horse, snowshoes and dog sled. His Ojibwa-English dictionary is still in use today.
Logged
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,973


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2010, 04:32:43 PM »

Of course I'd say go ahead.

Lots of born Orthodox would and not give it a second thought.

It's not like going to Confession or Communion there.

The SSPXers might be rude but don't expect that. Why make a case out of being Orthodox/come at them with a chip on your shoulder? The born Orthodox probably wouldn't.

I really don't like the notion that, somehow, a cradle Orthodox (no one is born Orthodox) would not have a question about something regarding faith and praxis, or that what is often done by them is Orthodox because they've been raised Orthodox or come from an Orthodox culture.
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
The young fogey
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,758


I'm an alpaca, actually


WWW
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2010, 04:45:34 PM »

The born Orthodox (I'm not playing semantic games) often has a lively faith which is why he tends not to be scrupulous and Ned Flandersy ('Reverend, you've got to help me! I think I'm coveting my own wife!') about it. He sees a saint's relics and venerates them, and doesn't think ill of the Roman Catholics who've taken good care of the relics.
Logged

kansas city
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Serbian
Posts: 192



« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2010, 08:50:35 PM »

Of course I'd say go ahead.
Lots of born Orthodox would and not give it a second thought.
It's not like going to Confession or Communion there.
The SSPXers might be rude but don't expect that. Why make a case out of being Orthodox/come at them with a chip on your shoulder? The born Orthodox probably wouldn't.
The born Orthodox (I'm not playing semantic games) often has a lively faith which is why he tends not to be scrupulous and Ned Flandersy ('Reverend, you've got to help me! I think I'm coveting my own wife!') about it. He sees a saint's relics and venerates them, and doesn't think ill of the Roman Catholics who've taken good care of the relics.

Yes, much is taken for granted.
Logged
quester
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 63


« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2011, 03:22:35 PM »

Hope nobody minds me resurrecting this thread but I think this is an interesting topic.

Of course I'd say go ahead.

Lots of born Orthodox would and not give it a second thought.

It's not like going to Confession or Communion there.

Agreed.  I believe it's up to an individual Orthodox believer's judgment to decide whether or not to venerate a relic preserved in a Roman Catholic church. Obviously, no Orthodox would venerate the relics of Catholic saints who vehemently opposed and sought to destroy Orthodoxy, but how could an Orthodox Christian possibly decline to venerate the relics of great pre-Schism saints or of Christ Himself, venerated and worshiped by Orthodox and Catholics alike?

I'm happy to say I got the chance to venerate the holy relic of the Precious Blood at the Basilica of the Holy Blood in Bruges, Belgium. I hesitated at first, not knowing whether or not it was appropriate for me to do, but from what I had heard, the relic was likely acquired by Crusaders during the sack of Constantinople, so it must have been known and venerated by "Schismatics" as well as by the whole of the Church before the Schism.

Even though one may rightly question the means of acquiring this relic, this doesn't change anything about the holiness of the relic itself. I decided to go ahead and venerate the relic, and I'm glad I did. It was awkward and yet so satisfying to cross myself the Orthodox way in front of this relic. Smiley I also felt very touched afterwards, I have never experienced anything like it. It's certainly left a big impression on me.

Q.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2011, 03:25:01 PM by quester » Logged
quester
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 63


« Reply #31 on: August 25, 2011, 03:23:41 PM »

By the way, this was the first time I ever venerated a relic so naturally I felt very unsure what to do.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2011, 03:33:32 PM by quester » Logged
Wyatt
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Posts: 2,395


« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2011, 03:27:36 PM »

I would certainly have no problem venerating relics in an Eastern Orthodox Church.
Logged
stanley123
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Roman Catholic
Posts: 3,809


« Reply #33 on: August 25, 2011, 03:53:08 PM »

http://www.smac.edu/?RelicList

In St. Marys, Kansas.

A deacon in my church and I are going to make the drive before summer's over.

The list is totally insane. Because it is an SSPX school, I'm going to assume that perhaps what happened here is that these were all rescued from Roman Catholic temples in the wake of Vatican II when so many holy things were desecrated to keep up with the times.

I'm also curious if they will let Orthodox Christians into the relics chapel as we are considered to be heretics outright be these staunch Latin traditionalists. I'm going to call the school soon and check on their hours and such.

If you have any interest in going through and picking out all of the Orthodox saints and posting them here, that'd be swell.
I think that SSPX maintain the older preVatican II rule that Orthodox are not to receive the Sacraments, but otherwise, Orthodox are welcomed. Why not?
Logged
The young fogey
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,758


I'm an alpaca, actually


WWW
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2011, 11:24:27 PM »

http://www.smac.edu/?RelicList

In St. Marys, Kansas.

A deacon in my church and I are going to make the drive before summer's over.

The list is totally insane. Because it is an SSPX school, I'm going to assume that perhaps what happened here is that these were all rescued from Roman Catholic temples in the wake of Vatican II when so many holy things were desecrated to keep up with the times.

I'm also curious if they will let Orthodox Christians into the relics chapel as we are considered to be heretics outright be these staunch Latin traditionalists. I'm going to call the school soon and check on their hours and such.

If you have any interest in going through and picking out all of the Orthodox saints and posting them here, that'd be swell.
I think that SSPX maintain the older preVatican II rule that Orthodox are not to receive the Sacraments, but otherwise, Orthodox are welcomed. Why not?

I think you're right. For example, the SSPX-backed Ukrainian Society of St Josaphat has had a friendly meeting with the local Orthodox bishop; they talked about the Slavonic language they both use liturgically (instead of the Ukrainian the modern, Vatican II Ukrainian Catholics use). Makes sense. Both sides are upfront so no nicey-nicey about two one true churches or corporate union (there can be: one side joining the other); with that out of the way they can talk about other things.
Logged

Severian
God save Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Coptic/Egyptian Orthodoxy
Posts: 5,041


Saint Severus of Antioch - the Eloquent Mouth

Partisangirl
WWW
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2011, 02:08:28 PM »

I would certainly have no problem venerating relics in an Eastern Orthodox Church.
Would you venerate post schism EO saints? As an OO Christian, I wouldn't mind venerating some post-Chalcedonian schism Saints. People like St John Climacus or Sts John and Barsanaphius of Gaza I am OK with venerating, I would not venerate Maximus the Confessor or John Damascene as they were a bit more controversial and involved in the Christological controversies.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2011, 02:33:53 PM by Severian » Logged

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ (Cf. St. John 16:33)
Wyatt
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Posts: 2,395


« Reply #36 on: August 28, 2011, 01:48:41 PM »

I would certainly have no problem venerating relics in an Eastern Orthodox Church.
Would you venerate post schism EO saints? As an OO Christian, I wouldn't mind venerating some post-Chalcedonian schism Saints. People like St John Climacus or Sts John and Barsanaphius of Gaza I am OK with venerating, I would not venerate Maximus the Confessor or John Damascene as they were a bit more controversial and involved in the Christological controversies.
I have a similar stance. I would not mind venerating some Eastern Orthodox Saints, but I would not venerate ones that were directly involved in the schism with the Roman Church. So the Eastern Orthodox Saints that are known as the "Pillars of Orthodoxy" that contributed to lack of union with the Western Church I would not feel comfortable venerating. Although...it is certainly possible they are still in heaven, but if they are then they would no longer be proud of what they did that got them recognized as a Saint within the Eastern Orthodox Church.
Logged
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,093


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2011, 05:12:02 PM »

I have a similar stance. I would not mind venerating some Eastern Orthodox Saints, but I would not venerate ones that were directly involved in the schism with the Roman Church. So the Eastern Orthodox Saints that are known as the "Pillars of Orthodoxy" that contributed to lack of union with the Western Church I would not feel comfortable venerating. Although...it is certainly possible they are still in heaven, but if they are then they would no longer be proud of what they did that got them recognized as a Saint within the Eastern Orthodox Church.
(Emphasis mine)

Are you here to make disciples of folks, because you're obviously attributing to yourself a level of spiritual discernment not often found.  You are asserting as fact that if said Pillars of Orthodoxy are in heaven, then they definitely feel x.  Amazing.  I should get levitation lessons from you, too.  It would have been different if you had asserted that the Saints do not have the passion of pride - that is an assertion directly supported by God's Word (both Christ and the scripture).

Oh, and they are in heaven - not because we say they are, but because the Great God of Hosts has revealed to us that they are.

I should "play this game" your way:
"Although...it is certainly possible Wyatt is still willing to learn about God, but if he is then he would no longer be proud of what he did that got himself recognized as a Saint denier outside the One, Holy Catholic, and Apostolic Church - the Eastern Orthodox Church."
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
Wyatt
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Posts: 2,395


« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2011, 05:18:10 PM »

I have a similar stance. I would not mind venerating some Eastern Orthodox Saints, but I would not venerate ones that were directly involved in the schism with the Roman Church. So the Eastern Orthodox Saints that are known as the "Pillars of Orthodoxy" that contributed to lack of union with the Western Church I would not feel comfortable venerating. Although...it is certainly possible they are still in heaven, but if they are then they would no longer be proud of what they did that got them recognized as a Saint within the Eastern Orthodox Church.
(Emphasis mine)

Are you here to make disciples of folks, because you're obviously attributing to yourself a level of spiritual discernment not often found.  You are asserting as fact that if said Pillars of Orthodoxy are in heaven, then they definitely feel x.  Amazing.  I should get levitation lessons from you, too.  It would have been different if you had asserted that the Saints do not have the passion of pride - that is an assertion directly supported by God's Word (both Christ and the scripture).

Oh, and they are in heaven - not because we say they are, but because the Great God of Hosts has revealed to us that they are.

I should "play this game" your way:
"Although...it is certainly possible Wyatt is still willing to learn about God, but if he is then he would no longer be proud of what he did that got himself recognized as a Saint denier outside the One, Holy Catholic, and Apostolic Church - the Eastern Orthodox Church."
I believe my Church to be the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church...therefore I believe that people who oppose my Church are in error. That would include what your Church calls the pillars of Orthodoxy. It's quite possible that they are in heaven, but I know that if they are it is not for opposing the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, but rather it is despite that fact. It's really not that hard to grasp.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2011, 05:19:00 PM by Wyatt » Logged
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,093


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2011, 05:22:29 PM »

LOL.  I do not doubt the sincerity of your motivation, nor did I fail to grasp the underlying principle of your post.  I was calling you out (again) for trolling (again).
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
Wyatt
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Posts: 2,395


« Reply #40 on: August 28, 2011, 05:27:02 PM »

LOL.  I do not doubt the sincerity of your motivation, nor did I fail to grasp the underlying principle of your post.  I was calling you out (again) for trolling (again).
How was I trolling? Severian said basically the same thing as I did about venerating EO Saints and he did not get reprimanded. He said he wouldn't feel comfortable venerating EO Saints who played a role in the Christological controversies. I agreed with his post and said that I, likewise, would feel uneasy to venerate EO Saints who played a controversial role in the Great Schism. Why is his post okay but mine is dubbed "trolling"?
« Last Edit: August 28, 2011, 05:27:47 PM by Wyatt » Logged
Irish Melkite
Information Mongeror
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite Greek-Catholic
Jurisdiction: Eparchy of Newton
Posts: 988


WWW
« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2011, 05:35:32 PM »

I have a similar stance. I would not mind venerating some Eastern Orthodox Saints, but I would not venerate ones that were directly involved in the schism with the Roman Church. So the Eastern Orthodox Saints that are known as the "Pillars of Orthodoxy" that contributed to lack of union with the Western Church I would not feel comfortable venerating. Although...it is certainly possible they are still in heaven, but if they are then they would no longer be proud of what they did that got them recognized as a Saint within the Eastern Orthodox Church.

That may be the most obnoxious post that I've ever read here!
Logged

"Not only is it unnecessary to adopt the customs of the Latin Rite to manifest one's Catholicism, it is an offense against the unity of the Church."

- Melkite Archbishop Joseph (Tawil), of blessed memory
Severian
God save Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Coptic/Egyptian Orthodoxy
Posts: 5,041


Saint Severus of Antioch - the Eloquent Mouth

Partisangirl
WWW
« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2011, 05:37:43 PM »

I have a similar stance. I would not mind venerating some Eastern Orthodox Saints, but I would not venerate ones that were directly involved in the schism with the Roman Church. So the Eastern Orthodox Saints that are known as the "Pillars of Orthodoxy" that contributed to lack of union with the Western Church I would not feel comfortable venerating. Although...it is certainly possible they are still in heaven, but if they are then they would no longer be proud of what they did that got them recognized as a Saint within the Eastern Orthodox Church.

That may be the most obnoxious post that I've ever read here!
Really? I have heard a lot worse. For me personally, nothing about Wyatt's post offended me, but hey, that's just me.
Logged

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ (Cf. St. John 16:33)
Wyatt
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Posts: 2,395


« Reply #43 on: August 28, 2011, 05:40:47 PM »

I have a similar stance. I would not mind venerating some Eastern Orthodox Saints, but I would not venerate ones that were directly involved in the schism with the Roman Church. So the Eastern Orthodox Saints that are known as the "Pillars of Orthodoxy" that contributed to lack of union with the Western Church I would not feel comfortable venerating. Although...it is certainly possible they are still in heaven, but if they are then they would no longer be proud of what they did that got them recognized as a Saint within the Eastern Orthodox Church.

That may be the most obnoxious post that I've ever read here!
It's obnoxious to hold Catholic views as a Catholic?
Logged
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,093


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #44 on: August 28, 2011, 06:24:06 PM »

LOL.  I do not doubt the sincerity of your motivation, nor did I fail to grasp the underlying principle of your post.  I was calling you out (again) for trolling (again).
How was I trolling? Severian said basically the same thing as I did about venerating EO Saints and he did not get reprimanded. He said he wouldn't feel comfortable venerating EO Saints who played a role in the Christological controversies. I agreed with his post and said that I, likewise, would feel uneasy to venerate EO Saints who played a controversial role in the Great Schism. Why is his post okay but mine is dubbed "trolling"?

You then took it a step further, musing on both their eternal state and their state of mind, knowing fully well how those musings would play out on a forum like this.  It's your opinion, you're free to hold it, but, IMO, it was intentionally over-the-top.  But hey - without posts like yours (among others), I wouldn't realize how utterly irenic most other people's posts are!  I sometimes need to better appreciate the food chain around here.
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
Tags: relics ialmisry's b.s. 
Pages: 1 2 »  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.146 seconds with 73 queries.